This week Enn recaps Securitate, S03 E20 of Law and Order; Instead of the episode relating to the title, we meet some goth twenty-somethings and a guy named "Skank..." - need we say more? Since this was not based on any true crime, Matt takes us through the Kaufman County Murders and the killings of Nathan Leon and Tom Clements.
This week Enn recaps Securitate, S03 E20 of Law and Order; Instead of the episode relating to the title, we meet some goth twenty-somethings and a guy named "Skank..." - need we say more? Since this was not based on any true crime, Matt takes us through the Kaufman County Murders and the killings of Nathan Leon and Tom Clements.
In this true crime law and order podcast, the episodes are presented by two separate yet equally ridiculous individuals, one who researches the actual crime and the other who recaps the episode. These are their stories.
Enn Burke:Hi, hi. Well, Another week, another episode of this podcast episode
Matt Molinaro:of this podcast another week. What did you know? This was actually a much better week for me.
Enn Burke:Yes, I was gonna say do you want to share your good news? Yes,
Matt Molinaro:I do. I have been on a, like manic, manic Monday, I have been on a medic job search since moving. Because as you may know, if you're not listening, for the first time, I've moved across the country and my job from California was letting me work remotely temporarily. Kind of helping both of us they couldn't find somebody. I needed a job. Yeah. And so it all worked out. But it was always temporary. And so I've been in this state of flux. Since we moved here. I've been in Job purgatory. And I hate it. I hate it. I feel like I haven't been able to relax and job interviews and and applying and not getting answers. And every five seconds you hear someone on the internet say, nobody wants to work. Nobody wants to work with so many jobs. I'm like, wow, what rich white guy came up with that phrase, because I am applying for like H and M. I'm applying for like entry level positions at retail stores when I've been a retail store manager. And I'm not getting calls. So the good news is it's all finished. My job from California has agreed to keep me full time. No end date. So excited.
Enn Burke:That's very good. Very good.
Matt Molinaro:I couldn't breathe. Yeah. So yeah, so that's, that's my big revelation. I can breathe again. Baby. Now I can breathe again.
Enn Burke:Yay. Um, well, I don't think I have anything like terribly new or exciting. Other than we have watched a couple of things recently that I thought I would mention today, okay, because they're kind of their true crime adjacent. Well, I guess they actually are true crime. But they're kind of that what I'm about to talk about are things that probably everybody else in the world has already watched, like, a few years ago. But you know how I'm you know, hip and with the times, miles and I watched the fire festival documentary on Netflix. Have you seen that? Oh,
Matt Molinaro:yeah. There's, there's the there's the Netflix one. And there's also the Hulu one.
Enn Burke:Okay, the Netflix one that's like fire Festival, the greatest party that never happened. Okay. Did you see that? Yeah, I
Matt Molinaro:don't remember which one I liked better. But I've seen them both. Okay.
Enn Burke:I thought it was really good. I didn't, I didn't really I had like, heard about fire festival a couple years ago, or whenever it happens. But my mind always just thought it was the same thing as Fire Island, which it's not obviously, but I thought it was. So it was kind of fun to to actually experience and see and learn about that event. And it was pets. That story is wild to me.
Matt Molinaro:Oh my gosh, it's insane. I really had no idea what I was getting into when I started on either of those documentaries. I thought it was just like, going to be kind of silly. Yes. And wow, that was involved. And again, kind of like we talked about when we were talking about the Tendler Spindler, you don't understand how powerful can pull this kind of stuff off. Right?
Enn Burke:And what's wild is the whole time I was watching it, I was like, Oh my God, this guy, Billy McFarland, or whatever his name is. He should be like dating Anna from inventing Anna or be dating the tinder swindler guy because they're just all peas in a pod.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, watch. Watch the Hulu one. I think it's called Fire fraud. Okay, I don't remember which one was better, but one is certainly a little less slanted. I think so.
Enn Burke:Okay. I only knew this one from the meme of the guy who was like the event producer who said and I walked into his office fully prepared to suck his dick. I had seen that meme like a million times, but I hadn't ever really known what the context was. So that was the other thing that we just finished watching much less fun. Was the Jeffrey Epstein Docu series on Netflix. I think it's called like inside Jeffrey Epstein or some something like that. Okay. Did you watch that one?
Matt Molinaro:I think I've seen the other one. The one on Jeffrey Epstein filthy rich or something. I think it's called Oh wait, no
Enn Burke:filthy rich. That's what it is. Oh, okay,
Matt Molinaro:then I did watch it. Yes. Okay.
Enn Burke:Oh, God, what a just horrendous story.
Matt Molinaro:It's vile, it's yes. What I appreciated, especially about that series was the detail you get from the individual survivors. Yes, I agree. Because it just grounds it like, it just sounds. So foil in a way. Yeah. And so for lack of a better term, I want to say fantastical, because I feel like it has a positive connotation. But just so sir, like, surreal, surreal, and on believable, and conceptual, like you understand as the concept like, oh, wow, what a terrible person and look at the multitude of things he's done. But then when you just like, narrow it down to the people's experiences, and then you realize, oh, take that person's experience and multiply that feeling by Yeah, hundreds. And then you really get the, it just gives you the full gravity of it. Yeah. And didn't Ghislaine just get found guilty recently of basically everything they were putting, but it feels like everything's being put on her, but I guess she's the one left,
Enn Burke:right. Yeah, I think she did get indicted or wait, not convicted of all of the charges that she at least, like many, many charges. I think she's facing multiple decades in prison at this point.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah. I mean, it feels a little bit too little too late a lot to
Enn Burke:me. I mean, there's absolutely nothing that can fix those stories anyway. But both of those documentaries were really well produced and really engaging. So if you are interested in true crime documentaries, check them out.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, definitely recommend both of those. We haven't watched anything really new. But we have been watching a lot of randomly. We've been watching a lot of 48 hours of Dateline episodes. Of course you have and I forgot how many that was basically my experience with True Crime growing up were those like newsmagazines, like 2020 Those two and 60 minutes. That was like, what introduced me to this whole fascination. I guess I have now Yeah, yeah. Oh, I wanted to one other thing. Yeah. And watching. I'm all caught up on the most current season of law and order. SVU Oh, my gosh, because that's just premiered. Right? Well, okay. So, it just came back from a little break loaner. Oh, but the new law order has just premiered. Yes. Okay. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah, I didn't realize it was out already. But we were I had finished watching the last Law and Order SVU that came out. They're really doing very well this season. I gotta say, I think they're making progress sincere, strong efforts to do the right thing for the kind of media it is. That's good. Yeah,
Enn Burke:well, speaking of law and order should we get into this week's episode?
Matt Molinaro:I am ready if you are.
Enn Burke:I am. Well, I'm the recap for this week. Right Are
Matt Molinaro:you sure are you better pay?
Enn Burke:So this is season three episode 20. of lawn order it is called Securitate.
Matt Molinaro:I don't remember how to say the word. It's something.
Enn Burke:I think I think I read something in the like IMDB or the wiki about how it's the name for like the Romanian Secret Police or something like that.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, I think I heard it pronounced once in the episode. And I don't remember.
Enn Burke:Yeah. Okay. Well, this episode opens on to women who are doing their best cause play of a blossom episode. Totally. And they're talking about this party that they like couldn't get into or something or they wanted somebody to put them on the list. It was whatever. And then a car drives by and by the way, this is yet another episode where the filming was so dark. I had a really hard time seeing what was happening, but
Matt Molinaro:oh, gosh, the whole first the whole opening sequence. I had some Yeah, my brightness was up.
Enn Burke:Yeah. So it open or the car drives by and we see like a man being dragged alongside the car and he kind of like tumbles away from the car as the car speeds off, and he's dead and the cops arrive and we learned that his name is Nicholas Iliescu, and he's got like blood all over his face because he was like dragged by the car and Briscoe has actually a line that made me chuckle which is what they kill him with a cheese grater. But what we actually learned killed him was two shots in the head. And we get the title sequence and the cheese grater comment made me think of skincare and exfoliation. So I went and washed my face I did a light chemical exfoliant. I applied a moisturizing sheet mask for about 20 minutes then I did a few sir serums moisturizer and then I locked it all in with a nice rose hip oil and by the time I was done with all of that we were back.
Matt Molinaro:I said you didn't use a cheese grater.
Enn Burke:I did not use a cheese grater to exfoliate, no. Well, you know,
Matt Molinaro:different strokes for different folks.
Enn Burke:Yeah. So when we come back, we're at the station, and we learned that the autopsy shows that the man was shot twice in the head with a Beretta 92. And they go, they have identified the man from his driver's license. And so they're going to meet his wife down at the morgue. And when they do, she's kind of telling them about how they had left Hungary years and years ago, and she's very distraught. And she has a young man with her who we learned is her nephew, the man who was killed his name is Nicholas. His he has a brother and that's this kid's son. Right? Right. Okay. She identifies the body in the morgue. There's a lot of like wailing and screaming and hair pulling. Meanwhile, looking
Matt Molinaro:for fun Tuesday night.
Enn Burke:Sounds like you know, like four o'clock on every workday. So Logan apparently has developed a skill for telepathy because despite the fact that nobody has talked to him after in the same scene after this woman has identified her husband he just walks over to Brisco and says the car has been found on the Lower East Side. Where did that information come from? Nobody told him that
Matt Molinaro:he has Miss Cleo on speed dial he modest
Enn Burke:okay. So they head down to I guess this mechanic where who has the car? And they are thinking that what probably happened was they found like body damage on the on the Bonneville that the that Nicolas was driving and they think truck hit that car or a bigger car hit it. And then before he could even like get out of the car, he was attacked by whoever was driving that truck. But we learned that the car has been stripped for parts. By the time the police found it, and it's in this mechanic shop, and they go down to the shop and talk to the owner. They find out that he essentially sells auto parts from stolen cars. He has like a previous record. Then we have again one of the most wildly bad evidence handling moments I've seen in a while they like identify the seats from the car and the car mechanic guy thinks that they're there to buy the seats for the car. But they reveal to him that they're police. And he's like, Oh, I knew you were police the minute you walked in, and he shows them the car seats and there's blood on like half of it from where Nicholas was shot. And they go how much to clean off the blood. And he's like, Oh no, this must be ice cream or something. And then he takes his work gloves and starts just like wiping it around and they do thing to stop him when they evidence of a crime scene.
Matt Molinaro:I love that he tried to blame it on us stain.
Enn Burke:Uh, yes, of ice cream behind your head. Like you would be eating ice cream in the driver's side of a car and just throw your ice cream directly behind your head.
Matt Molinaro:I mean, it could have been like that fine that you like where the girl in the McFlurry Oh,
Enn Burke:God, I love that vine. Anybody out there just again, Google MC flurry or Google McDonald's Vine video and you should find it if not add the word to the word choking.
Matt Molinaro:The word choking.
Enn Burke:So we learn that from this mechanic, they find the they kind of get a physical description of the two guys who sold the mechanic the stolen car. And one of them's Oh my god. I had blacked out this whole segment since I watched it so they find one of them describes the guys as wearing like a leather jacket with safety pins and studs. And on the back it says no Bozo Jam, which apparently is supposed to be a band name, donor and earner. So then we go to a nightclub where we see possibly the saddest discount Mick Jagger spoken word singing performer and we're supposed to believe that the club is like really, really loud. And Logan is like I can hear it in my fillings and Briscoe who apparently stepped straight out of a time portal says Doesn't anyone Jitterbug anymore? Which by the way is a dance from the late 1920s Which I guess he if he was like 70 when this was filming and that would make sense but I was like really? Jitterbug like you couldn't have picked something from I don't know the decade before not 70 years ago but sure, maybe Wake Me
Matt Molinaro:Up Before You Go Go is really popular at the time.
Enn Burke:The Navy so Logan talks to the bartender and says they have some great lines in this episode. Oh guy got to do to get served around here put a hole in his nose because this is very like, like we're making fun of like the golf alternative kids kind of episode
Matt Molinaro:this segment. Yeah, this is the part where like, in a sitcom, you know, the the mom of the family has to go to her kids new friend's house and they guess bikes in their hair or dark eyeliner. And they've dyed
Enn Burke:it with Kool Aid. They've dyed their hair with cool.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, and they gotta gloves with their fingers cut off
Enn Burke:fully. So they talked to her and she they give her the description of the two guys which literally describe like 85 Random extras that have been in the scene so far. So I don't know how she narrows it down. Oh, I guess the band name on the back of the jacket. She's like, Oh, yeah, no Bozo or no Bozo JM, whatever the band's name is she gives them a flyer and kind of points them to where they typically hang out. There's probably seven or eight minutes of like, people pointing them to somebody else to talk to. And for some reason, they decided to show us every single step along the way that did not matter. They talked to a woman who's a drummer in a band, and she's like, oh, yeah, I've played with them before, but like don't say anything about it. Because like, I'm just starting to get some like, traction with my band. And they're like, we'll try to keep it out of Rolling Stone. Anyway, she points them to a building nearby. That's an abandoned building. And that's apparently where no Bozo lives or squats.
Matt Molinaro:No bows, oh,
Enn Burke:no Bozo, so they head down their guns drawn. And it's kind of like one of those buildings that are meant to be like, sort of like drug dens where there's like mattresses on the floor kind of vibe. They're both asleep. They managed to kind of like wake them up and rouse them. And on them. They one of them is sleeping with a nine millimeter Beretta under his pillow, so matches the bullets in the car that are yeah matches the bullets in the car and the bullets that killed Nicholas Iliescu. They bring them down to the station, and one of the character says that they just found the car they had nothing to do with killing anyone and they're like will you had the murder weapon, and they say it was on the seat of the car when we found it. We have nothing to do with the attack and murder. Meanwhile, our favorite character who is the person who walks in from off screen with information tells them that the bullets match the gun. The bullets that killed the victim match the gun, and the only prints on the gun are one of these two kids who they have in custody. By the way, his nickname is skank FYI, lead singer of no Bozo skank. However, apparently no Bozo was playing a show, because there they are sorry, they have an alibi, because no Bozo was playing a show at the time of the murder. And they have like 150 witnesses who saw them on stage. So it turns out these boys had nothing to do with the murder. After all, no Bozo, no Bozo, we also learn that they found a credit card on the men who, again, they say they found it in the car. And the card belongs to a man named Brian Hollingsworth. So they go and talk to Brian Hollingsworth and he's some architect and he explains that his that's his old credit card, it was stolen somebody was using it illegally. And they then ask him about if he knows the Iliescu family again, Nicholas Iliescu was the murdered man. And he's like, oh, yeah, they have a family furniture store, and I bought a credenza from them a couple months ago. So they're thinking now that probably what had happened is that Nicholas Iliescu was murdered by somebody who was like kind of using credit cards illegally or like copying credit cards illegally from the Iliescu family business. So it's probably one of the employees there. Who is the murderer. Meanwhile, they get they talked to American Express on the phone and learn that there are dozens of reports of fraud from folks from people who had shopped at the Iliescu furniture store so they're they're confident that their theory is correct. So they go and talk to his wife again. and their apartment is very nice. And she says her husband would never have been involved with this. And he had no gambling habit like he was a good man. He knew there's no reason that he would have been murdered. Like he did not get himself into this. And she said it could be anyone else who worked at the store who had access to these credit cards. So they head to the store to speak with folks and her again. Nicholas, his brother in law, who I think his name is, Harry, what was his name? Alex Iliescu. Okay, so Alex is Nicholas, his brother, the murder victim. So he works at the furniture store. He is talking to Logan and Briscoe says that he used to be a policeman in Hungary. And now he just works for his brother repairing chairs. And they open the safe at the store and it's empty except for a few Ledger's. But we see that on the letters are like this. Honestly, the plot of this episode was so bad that it was really hard to follow the the jumps in logic here. But something about these Ledger's showed signatures that kind of matched the stolen credit cards type thing. So they're like, All right, now we know that the murderer is probably somebody who had access to this safe. And meanwhile, they talk to Tommy, who is another employee of the store and we find out that he was the one who forged the signatures, but he didn't kill Nicolas. But he they think maybe he's covering something up, right? So they find they kind of again, do some detective logic and they're like, alright, this is a furniture store. They probably did deliveries. So they go and look at the furniture store delivery truck, which they find in a like hidden garage in the Bronx I think, or Brooklyn, I can't remember it was a b It was one of the B boroughs. And they see that it has damage on it and paint that matches the Bonneville that Nicholas was driving when he was killed. So now they really know that somebody's involved in the family business, killed Nikolas bump up a bump. So they asked Tommy the employee of the store like Who Who was your accomplice in this and ultimately he gives up that it was Alex's Alex, who is Nicholas's brother. He says that Nick found out about the forged signatures in the stolen credit cards. And he said his brother Alex killed him to keep it secret. So they go into the rest of the brother. And then we kind of shift to the order side. And in a meeting with stone, Nick's wife speaks to stone and says that she'll testify against Alex and stone is like, I don't need it. Like I definitely am going to be able to put him away with all of this evidence. And she kind of like lets it drop that he was secret police and he's responsible for having killed hundreds of people. This doesn't matter for the plot of the episode, but they just kind of kept coming back to this like secret police thing. Yeah. But it was like, it was kind of like a red herring. Not even a red herring, but it was just like, random information that did not matter to the episode. Yeah, like, anyway, stone kind of hits a snag in his case, because the judge ends up ruling all of the evidence inadmissible. Because the where they collected the truck was in a storage unit that belonged to Alex not to Tommy. So he told me he didn't have the right to allow the police to search that storage unit. So the judge says that the cops didn't do their due diligence in seeking out this information. And so she's ruling all of it in admissible. And this ends up meaning that the judge also dismisses all charges against Alex Iliescu, because they really no longer have any evidence. In a conversation. The DA is Office shift gets a phone call. And we learned that Alex Iliescu has been murdered as well. So this is now the brother of the original murder victim. They go like look at the scene, he has a ton of stab wounds, and there's like a boning knife that was like broken off in his back or something like that. Yeah. They also find a shattered bottle that they think might have been used to attack him as well. So they're swabbing for prints. But they noticed that there was no forced entry. So this means that it must have been someone that Alex knew. So they're like, Who could that be? They go and talk to Karen, the wife of the original murder victim. And they suspect that she killed Alex when Stone had kind of like fumbled the case and gotten it all dismissed. And so because of that, she went and killed her husband's murder. Her lawyer asks stone if he will offer manslaughter too and Stone says only If she serves the maximum, but he refuses, and so they had to trial meanwhile, they have yet another problem in their case, the evidence shows that Karen isn't the murderer. And so it has to be the nephew who killed his father. So remember, Nicholas is the murder victim. His brother is Alex and then they have a son. And essentially, we. So Karen is now off the hook for the murder of Alex. And now that her nephew, who is Alex's son is on the hook for murder. And the judge or the lawyer is going to play or say a defense of insanity for the son because he says like he had a really traumatic past. His dad was secret police. He watched his son or he watched his father like abuse and murder people. And he just wanted his father's approval, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Dr. Oliver assesses him and he tells her his life history and she says that it's likely that he knew exactly what he was doing when he killed his father. And she thinks that what what likely happened is that he killed Nicolas and was hoping that that would get his father's approval. But his father was like a dickhead and never loved his son. And so when he didn't get his father's approval for killing his uncle, he killed his father. Right. Martin very convoluted is it's a lot. Yeah, um, we get a couple like testimonies in the courtroom. But ultimately, what ends up happening is that stone offers a plea deal to him, and he pleased to man one, and then we get a closing scene where stone has the line. They say a boy doesn't become a man until his father passes away. Leon that's his name. Leon took care of it in one fell swoop. And that's the end of the episode. Woof.
Matt Molinaro:II. That was a lot because it was also a lot of names. There were so many red herrings that didn't matter that they spent a lot of time on. Yeah. And then you come back and it's like, Oh, what about this random thing?
Enn Burke:I totally it. It was a very, in my mind, poorly written episode.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, it you know, we came off of some good ones.
Enn Burke:You know, we're getting a dud, but throw Ra.
Matt Molinaro:No offense.
Enn Burke:All right.
Matt Molinaro:Well, this episode was actually not based on any specific crime. All right. So I decided to pick a crime myself. Okay, great. So I will be telling the story of the Kaufman county murders.
Enn Burke:I don't think this doesn't ring any bells.
Matt Molinaro:Okay. It's a recent one. I was not on board with it. But okay. All right. So the story starts on Thursday, January 31 2013. Okay, Mark hassy, who is the Chief da for Kaufman County. He arrived and this in Texas, by the way. He arrives at work in the early morning hours. He parks like normal and begins walking to the courthouse just after 8:30am about 838 I think exactly. Witnesses say they see a man scuffling with him. And there's some shoving back and forth. And then almost as fast as it began shots are fired.
Enn Burke:Can I sorry, let me just back up for one second. So this main man's name is Mark hassy. Mark hassy. And this is in Kaufman County, Texas. Yes. In 2013. And Mark Halsey is a lawyer.
Matt Molinaro:He's the chief da for the county.
Enn Burke:Okay, Chief da green. Thank you. Okay.
Matt Molinaro:So, shots are fired. Mark has he is down. He's 57 years old at the time. He is lying on the ground outside and this is all later the aftermath of this was caught on dash cam. When police arrived or not far obviously it's the courthouse. The suspect jumps into a car nearby into the passenger seat so someone is driving and they speed out of there.
Enn Burke:That's got to be a nightmare to be that driver. Oh, well, unless they were going to accomplish I guess. So. We'll find out I'm sure we will find out. If I stop interrupting.
Matt Molinaro:No, you're fine. Mark hassy lies there. He's unconscious and he dies from his wounds unfortunately. And Kathy for I think even ambulances arrive. witnesses at the scene are unable to identify a suspect. All people they speak to said that the person was wearing all black and they had an executioner's hood on and it was obscuring their face.
Enn Burke:Okay, wow. That's a choice very specific, I guess. Yeah, like it wasn't like just a ski mask like it was literally now Tuesday
Matt Molinaro:said, it looks like an executioner's hood. How weird. The getaway car was described as gray or light brown, and to four door sedan. That's all they have on it, no license plates, nothing like that. The second suspect the person that was driving also unable to be identified, then when we got to look at them, there's no sort of executioner's hood or anything. But everyone was so focused on the person who shot and the person who was shot that when this person jumped in the car, no one really got a good look at them. Okay. hassy at the time was armed. He always carried a gun on him. But he was not even able to remove her from his holster during the attack. It just remains underneath his jacket. Okay. This is a quote, we lost a really, really good man. He was an excellent friend and a spectacular prosecutor. This is from Da Mike McClelland this this has his boss. He goes on to say I hope that the people that did this are watching he does this in a press conference on TV. He says I hope that the people who did this are watching because we're confident we're going to find you pull you out of whatever hole you're in, bring you back and let the people of Kaufman county prosecute you to the full extent of the law. Burn. Some people were really on fire behind this. Some people were like, Why are you stoking a flame? But this was the this was the immediate response. Okay. Mark hassy. Just to talk a little bit about the first victim here, Mark Hass. He was born in Illinois in 1955. He grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma before moving to Dallas, where he graduated high school. He earned a BA in history in 1977 and followed that with a law degree from SMU law school in 1981. And he started working for the Dallas DEA office in 1982. And in 1988, after an impressive run, he opened a private practice. Okay, he returned to he returned to do criminal trial work for Kaufman in Kaufman, Texas in 2010. And he was focusing on protecting the victims of crime that was his primary specialty. Okay, on a personal note, he had a pilot's license and he had a passion for flight and he studied and practiced aviation law on the side for decades. And he was a huge animal advocate. Over the course of his lifetime, he adopted stray dogs, infamously he would constantly take the most unsavory dogs from pounds and kill centers to try to protect them from being euthanized and protect them until they passed. And upon his passing, his family set up a fund for the children of Kaufman County in his honor. So that's just a little bit about the first victim. I feel like they kind of get lost in the in the mix in the story. Okay. Clearly, a man like this, who worked in the field he did putting violent offenders away for so long. I think part of his practice early on was an organized crime even so he could potentially be targeted by you know, 1000s of people. The you know, there are so many people that were connected to the people that he helped put away. And so, you know, people, law enforcement had their work cut out for them. Immediately, suspicion was cast on the Aryan Brotherhood. They had been the subject of some recent sting operations at the time, and they were in the news for a while in Texas.
Enn Burke:And Mark was Mark Cassie, a man of color or was he just know, like, okay, so but it might have been like putting away folks who were involved with
Matt Molinaro:with the DIS Aryan Brotherhood. That was this to supposition because other sorts of things had happened around the time, like violent crimes related back to people who are incarcerated and involved with the Aryan Brotherhood. So that was their first notion. Okay. The first shooting we just talked about was January 31 2013. Now we are March 17 2013, a man named Nathan Lyon was working his shift at a Domino's in Denver, Colorado. He gets sent on delivery to a truck stop in Golden Colorado, which is just outside Denver. Okay, and he does not return to work after this delivery. His body was found hours later in a remote stretch nearby. Nathan was 27 years old. He was actually born one literally one day after me on September 19 1985. So when I read that it kind of just gave me a little bit of a chill. Yeah, because he died in 2013. And he was just one day younger than me. It's just this stronger sense of reality for like his mortality, I guess for me. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much all of the media coverage related to Leon's murderer barely mentioned his name. He was mostly called a pizza guy in the media.
Enn Burke:Why? Why was that? Like? They just didn't.
Matt Molinaro:Well, we'll we'll let's see. Okay. Why was why was that exactly? Okay? His widow Katie says he wasn't just a piece of driver. He was her life. Yeah. He's described as, quote the type of man whose arrival home always triggered excited squeals from his three little daughters. He worked hard to support his family. He was an amazing father. Everyone who knows him said that it was his his life. And he worked part time for Domino's, and by day, he was a junior library assistant for IBM. He was an excellent guitar player. He loved excitement adventures and roller coasters. He dreamed of going to college and becoming a crime scene analyst or psychologist. This is a quote from his father. His father said of him. He was my role model. He was a different kind of man. He would always see good and people he never raised his voice. Never. So why was Nathan's death an afterthought in the news coverage? Yeah, well, because two days after his death, on March 19 2013, Tom Clements, who is the head of Colorado of Colorado's Department of Corrections, okay, he's watching TV with his wife Lisa, in his home in monument, Colorado, also nearby to Denver. The doorbell rings he goes to get it climbing a few stairs to get to the front door. And he comes face to face with a pizza delivery man who shoots him twice and flees the scene.
Enn Burke:Okay, so I just want to make sure I'm getting off. It's correct. So far, we have a murdered District Attorney, a man who delivers pizza for work and now I'm sorry, this next guy is
Matt Molinaro:the head of Colorado's Department of Corrections.
Enn Burke:Okay, okay. This is all very strange. It's very strange.
Matt Molinaro:And the person who shoots this man is a pizza delivery man.
Enn Burke:Yeah, okay. did well. Okay. I was wondering with the pizza delivery murderer. Was his like uniform or car or like car sign taken that would allow this guy to pose as a pizza delivery person?
Matt Molinaro:Question marks.
Enn Burke:Okay. All right. Sure,
Matt Molinaro:marks good questions that you're asking them. So the shot sends Clements falling down. He initially survived shouting for his wife Lisa to call 911. Sadly, within 30 minutes of the attack, Tom Clements 58 years old dies from his wounds. Right in front of his wife. Terrible, terrible. A little bit about Tom. Tom was born in October of 1954 in Missouri, where he would eventually graduate from high school, and then he would earn his criminal justice administration associate's degree in 1979. He also earned a BA in sociology and a Master's in Public Administration in 1994. work right, these people are very accomplished. He and his wife, Lisa Smith, married in 1984, as well, he had two daughters with her. In his lifetime he served in his church's youth ministry, he counseled couples there, he worked for 31 years for the Missouri Department of Corrections and only the last two of his life for for Colorado Department of Corrections. And according to his obituary, he worked with the Special Olympics and served as an adjunct professor at Columbia College in Missouri, among other professional and community organizations, he was involved with the United Way and passionate about serving in the community. So it was his murder. That was really taking the spotlight of the investigation. Right. And Nathan Lyon was just mentioned as a pizza delivery guy or the pizza guy who was killed two days prior, because they suspect that's where the uniform was from. Okay, so you connected those dots very correctly. Well, this is what they're thinking at least. Now, we have three murders that have happened in a pretty short period of time. The first murder was in Kaufman, Texas, but I looked it up. It is like a 12 hour drive, I think, to the next murder, which was a full, you know, quite a ways afterwards, so it's plenty of time to get there. So January 31. Mark has he is killed in Kaufman, Texas, march 17. Nathan Lyon is found killed in just outside of Denver, Colorado. It's only I think eight it was either a 12 hour drive or a 21 hour drive. I might be mixing the numbers up but regardless, that's why they're still thinking it could be connected. And then two days after we got Tom Clements dying, also in Colorado right outside of Denver. So with this murder, authorities actually have the last one Tom admits they have substantial evidence pointing to a man named Evan evil. That's EB e l not evil, even though Wow. Okay, so, Evan evil he was a 28 year old white supremacist with connections to other hate groups and a group called the 211. Crew. Okay, the 211 crew was a Colorado was or is I'm not sure. A Colorado white supremacist gang in prisons. So, you know, similarly to what they were thinking about the the Aryan Brotherhood right in Texas. So we're seeing a connection there. And it sort of alerts what's going on in coffin County. And because they're starting to see connection, these murders happen very close afterwards, regardless of sending like shockwaves through each community, it's happening in everyone who's working in a courthouse environment is on high alert. Everyone who is on law enforcement is on high alert. People are wondering whether they should even go to work if they should be like locking themselves up in their house. And then basically everyone in Texas who wasn't armed is getting armed and to try to protect themselves. Yeah, for better or for worse now. So it hits the news about Evan evil being a suspect, I believe. And he is on the run. Nobody knows where he is. But they do know the type of vehicle he's driving. He should be driving a black Cadillac sedan. Last time I saw him with mismatched plates. And so when a car with that description is seen in Wise County, Texas, Texas Dec deputy James Boyd pulls them over. It is in fact, Evan evil. When he gets to the passenger side door. He is shot three times by Evan who is sitting in his car. And at least one of those shots is to the head. Evans speeds off with a high speed chase and suing from other police officers. Wow, James Boyd, the deputy who was shot miraculously survived the shooting even though he was shot in the head. Wow. Right. So this is also caught on dash cam and they show it like in the middle of if you watch it, I think there's like 48 hours about it. But I can only find it on YouTube. So it's like in the corner of the screen. Angled. Yeah, but you they literally show like The it's very jarring because yeah, you don't initially know he survives it. And it's Yep. So he gets shot. He survives. The police are on evils tail, there's a high speed chase. It ends with the suspects car smashing into a semi. And it's at an intersection. It's a huge accident also caught on, on film. I saw the accident and thought he was going to be dead. Despite the nature of the accident. The suspect gets out of the car, it's still alive. And he starts shooting at police. Oh my god. During Yeah, during this shoot out, he is fatally wounded. So now Evel Knievel is dead. Okay. In his vehicle, they find a recording and audio recording that he had Nathan Lyon, the man who he shot after making a delivery to him at a truck stop. They find a recording of Nathan Lyon that he had been forced to make before being killed. And it's sort of admonishing admonishing is that the right word? Well,
Enn Burke:I guess it depends on what you mean.
Matt Molinaro:But like, he's like, China's rising the the criminal justice system and how they put people a wave incorrectly and how gotcha, you know, his 211 crew or, you know, he's basically advocating for people he's reading something off of a script. Right, right, right. Okay. So they find that in the car, they find the Domino's uniform. They find other pizza delivery sort of things that he must have stolen from him like the bag to keep the pizza hot, like clearly it was a orchestrated attack. They also find the gun that matches the types of shell casings for both murders of Nathan Lyon and the subsequent murder of Tom Clements. Okay. So they do an investigation into his whereabouts for the past few weeks for the past few months. And it is determined that Evan evil was not in Texas at the time of Mark has his murder. So he could not be found in any connection at this time to that murder. So authorities in Colorado have their guy but in Kaufman County, they're sort of back to square one. Interesting. Now with the Colorado case, there's a lot I started, if I went into that one that would be we'd be here all day because that also seemed to have a lot of like, hiccups and issues with it. And including the fact that enable may have been locked out on he was on parole when he carried out these murders. And it looks like he might have been put out on parole early, like accidentally lost Sadly, and it's also worth mentioning I believe that his father, Jack evil has this to say he says that nearly five and a half of the six years that his son had spent incarcerated before being on parole, he spent in solitary confinement. And he says, quote, he may have had mental conditions going in. But they are exacerbated to the point that I hardly recognize my son. Sometimes we are creating mental illness. We are exasperating. We are exacerbating mental illness. I mean, so he has this I mean, a strong point there. Yeah. Not giving any sort of excuse, but maybe something that should be looked at. Yeah. And but regardless, he's not responsible for more Kathy's death. So Okay. Back in Kauffman, this is all happening very quickly to back into Kaufman, da Mike McLelland, he's the one who's the boss who made that statement in the press and he was very upset about Mark Haskins murder, right. He tells everyone in the office to be armed. He's really very on high alert about everything. He thinks that they're all can be targets. He doesn't believe it has anything to do with the Aryan Brotherhood. He thinks that it is a targeted attack at basically their office and surrounding offices. I mean, it kind of sounds like Right. And with all of these other killings, even if they are unrelated, all officials working in like the judicial system are again on high alert. Yeah, JR McClellan. That's my son. He says that his parents house alone in terms of firearms, he describes they had to buy the chair to on the bar, two on the entertainment center and one on each side of the bed. Damn. Right. So they're like, armed, they have up to the to the gowns. Yeah, yeah. March 30. The Saturday before Easter. Let's put this in time where we were with everything else. The last murder we heard about was Tom Clements That's March 19. In Colorado, we've already determined Evan evil is not involved. Now it's March 30. It is the Saturday before Easter 630 approximately in the morning before dawn. Mike McLelland answers his door, and he and his wife are ambushed by a suspect with an assault rifle. More than 20 shots are fired. Both Mike 63 years old and his wife, Cynthia Woodward, McClellan's 65 years old, are killed, still wearing what they wear to bed. They're found early in the morning by a colleague of Mike's and Mike stepfather when they couldn't get in touch with him. So little bit about these victims here. Michael McClellan's was born in 1949. In August, he grew up in Texas, he attended the University of Texas, Austin, earning a BA in history. He got his master's in psychology and followed it with what's called a jurisprudence of law. I've never heard that word before.
Enn Burke:But I'm assuming it's a juris doctorate.
Matt Molinaro:Maybe it's one word. It's an it's a jurisprudence of law from Texas Wesleyan law school, but I don't know what jurisprudence means. I assume it's some sort of
Voiceover:degree. Yeah, I
Enn Burke:think it's I think it's a like doctorate in law. Yeah.
Matt Molinaro:So after that he served or, you know, in his lifetime, he served in the army for 23 years. He retired as a major becoming a clinical psychologist first afterwards. And then he became the DEA a Kaufman County in 2010. Okay, Cynthia, his wife was born in Oklahoma. She grew up in Highland Park, Texas. She earned her bachelor's in psychology in Austin, and a master's in psychology afterwards. And she also became a registered nurse. She worked at Terrell State Hospital. And the couple were described as quote, a mismatched pair that fit perfectly. They were a true love story. That's cute. Yeah, they had four grown children between them and multiple grandchildren that they're survived by. So now, we have two more people in Kaufman county that have been killed. The pressure and the tension and the fear has had an all time high. The only physical evidence they have besides shell casings are that there was a white Crown Victoria, that was seen entering the neighborhood before dawn hours and then leaving the neighborhood afterwards. That's all they've any people. I mean, it was before dawn, so there weren't like a lot of people awake. That's the only unusual thing that got Yeah. Okay. Da, early Wiley. She is I forgot what her previous role was. But she will go on to take Michael McClellan's role she worked under him okay. She says that. She was told by McClellan's before this and by colleagues to remain alert to be protected that everyone is a target. And she said quote, it chills me Really Mike didn't do anything but his job. And Cynthia, that's a hard one. She was a sweet woman. She made cookies for the office and she crocheted. So everyone is is freaking out, obviously. Yeah. 24 hours after the double homicide and anonymous tip from seemingly the killer themselves comes in to a Crime Stoppers tip line that was set up. Okay. It's sent you through, like anonymous email. Okay, the subject line reads, quote, do we have your full attention now? The author uses details from the crime scenes that only the person who did it would know the types of guns and casings found the things that were not found. And they tried to, you know, track it. But the person used, you know, some sort of VPN through the dark web to access the website. So the IP is untraceable. Okay. They don't have a ton of leads. They have one suspect in mind now, though. It has not been released to the press. But there's one common denominator suspect it's not a violent offender. It's not someone behind bars, no ties to any white supremacist group. Okay, in fact, what he is a member of is Mensa, who's the former National Guardsmen. Okay, a former member of the chamber Chamber of Commerce and coffin. The suspect in mind is a disgraced former Kaufman county Justice of the Peace named Eric Williams, huh?
Enn Burke:Wow, okay. Interesting. disgraced, I'm sure you're gonna tell me why disgraced?
Matt Molinaro:I assure him, okay. Not only does this man have ties to both mark, Cassie and Michael Michael McClelland. But both Cynthia McClelland and Mike suspected him after hassy was killed. Multiple colleagues at the McClellan say that they thought he might be responsible, but they didn't really have evidence or time to prove it. But multiple people who were working with Mike at the time, said that he knew exactly who it was. And he wasn't shy about saying it. Cynthia reportedly confided in her friend, Tanya, that the two of them were concerned about Eric for years, because of an incident that occurred which led to him no longer being the justice of the peace, and he seemed humiliated. Okay, so when Eric had been elected justice of the peace for Kauffman, in November of 2010, he was well liked. He was on an upward career trajectory. Everyone liked him. This is a quote from his friend at the time, Jenny parks who was also an attorney for Kaufman County. She said Eric was Eric was streamlining processes doing a lot of good in the county. It was giving him hell, Georgia work and he did not get along Georgia or someone that worked in the IT department in May 2011, if it only been about a year that he'd been adjusted to the peace, surveillance footage shows him stealing three Dell computer monitors from the IT department at the courthouse, and they show this footage if you could see it really easily. He's just walking in plain sight just carrying huge computer monitors and boxes out of the courthouse on a Sunday when it's closed. Okay, so it's you know, it doesn't take a lot to you know, prosecute this. So right, he is arrested on felony charges, felony theft charges, and he pleads not guilty. They offer him a deal, trying to reduce the felony to a misdemeanor to help them out. But he turns it down. Because he feels he can talk his way out of it. There was an interview this show police interview where they're like, Did you You're an educated person, you can't pretend like you thought it would be okay to just steal equipment from a location because you want it to use it. Right. And his response is, there's places that do that. And they're like, places he's like, yeah, and they're like, Okay, so, what that means, right, exactly. So that case, goes to trial. Mark hassy prosecutes the case. Mike McClelland was second chair. Okay. Eric is found guilty. He's sentenced to two years probation. And because it's a felony, he loses his position. He loses his law, his law license, and he's no longer allowed to carry firearms. Okay. This was over $600 of computer equipment monitoring. Dude, you're getting a Dell router. He got three Dells, he got three Dells, I mean, just the monitors, and he could have taken the deal for a misdemeanor, but he was so adamant that this was just gonna blow over and he thought he can get away with it. And so that was just in 2011. And when that happened, and the murders began In 2013, okay, but without any other evidence, it just seemed suspicious. He does an immediate interview on camera. This is Eric. During after the murders, he says, My deepest condolences go out to the McClellan family and all the people at the courthouse, most of which I know, I cooperated with law enforcement, I certainly wish them the best in bringing justice to this incredibly egregious act. Okay. So police know they don't have probable cause to search his home. And they don't have enough evidence and they need they feel like that's the next step. So they try a tactic to show up to chat with him and just keep it really casual and cordial. And see if they can get him to agree to let them inside. Okay. It's on recorded body cam, you know, they talked to him, they asked him if he had any involvement. He says he's innocent. They're just standing on his front door. Then they asked him if he has any firearms, because he's not supposed to. Because right, he's got the felony. He used to have a ton they know. So he says that he used to have 16 guns, he has sold 15 of them, okay, and he's got one left, it might be in the house. And he says, quote, it's just hard as hell to sell. Since he can't own any guns as a felon, they ask if they can look inside, they would love to be able to say they found exactly what he said. And they're not, you know, can you give him a hard time over it? And they, he says, Sure, he lets them look inside. So that's very lucky for them because they don't have a warrant or probable cause when they go inside may find accessories for guns like scopes and things like that attachments. They find lots of ammo. They said they found something that he claimed was the taser. They're like, what's this? And he goes, Oh, I think that's a taser. But when they actually discovered what it is, it's a heat seeker. And it's meant to find heat sources with a laser for hunting and night. And so they believe that this could have been used to find where both the McClellan's were in their home because it was in the pre Dawn hours. And so they have enough probable cause to get a warrant and return the next day. When they return the next day and search his house with a warrant they find inside of a filing cabinet a title to a white Crown Victoria, with Eric's name on it purchased weeks before the killing. While the suspect we know logged into a Crimestoppers website anonymously. at Eric's computer, they find the password and login that is unique to his Crimestoppers account written down next to the computer and it matches the emails on April 11 2013, he's arrested but just for making deadly threats
Enn Burke:now. Okay. I just want to pause I don't this is not a statement meant to say like people should be better at committing crimes, but it just seems like he's making a lot of really dumb mistakes. Well, you
Matt Molinaro:know what it is humorous? Like,
Enn Burke:I was gonna say yeah, okay. Yeah,
Matt Molinaro:it is. I am I am never gonna get caught. Right. I'm I am above the law, April 11 2013. He's arrested for the making deadly threats because they still need more evidence for the murders. And he's not talking to anybody without a lawyer. Right now all they have is a piece of surveillance footage from one of the homes nearby that show the white Crown Victoria. And it's the same one described by neighbors. It has like a mark on the side. And that's all they have, but you can't identify who's in the car. Okay, about two days after they arrest him for making deadly threats. They get a huge break in the case. Eric's friend calls in to the police station, about a storage unit that he's been asked to hold in his friend's for his friend under his name. He doesn't feel comfortable. He hasn't been there. But he's just like, I just I have a feeling so he gives the authorities all of the information. He lets them go inside and search it when they arrive. The first thing they find when they open the storage unit is that white Crown Victoria also found over 70 guns.
Enn Burke:Are you kidding me? Huh?
Matt Molinaro:One for 70 Grab it.
Enn Burke:I have another question. And you may not know the answer to this because I don't I don't know your history with guns aren't aren't guns kind of expensive?
Matt Molinaro:I wouldn't I mean, I I've never owned a gun and never will. But yeah, I I mean, you would think so. He would think Yeah. Okay. Over 70 from handguns to assault rifles. Wow. Jars of napalm. What? A crossbow. A homemade Molotov cocktail. Oh my god. Police badges, home vests, over 1000 rounds of ammo. Uh huh. And they find receipts for Are these silver Mercury stable? And that silver Mercury stable matches this description of the first vehicle used in the hassy murder?
Enn Burke:How did he get all of this?
Matt Molinaro:Right and that stable? While it's not physically there, the people who own the storage unit say, Oh, it was parked outside, but it was towed. So they have the car now also, gotcha. April 17. Now he is arrested for three counts of capital murder. Okay, and he and another suspect are held on $23 million bond and $10 million bond respectively. And I'll get to that other suspect who was the quote unquote, getaway driver, and I was
Enn Burke:gonna say, like, I was just about to ask you, so you're reading my mind.
Matt Molinaro:So the case goes to trial in late November. It's just against Eric, not against the getaway driver to separate. And the defense makes no opening statement for him and called no witnesses. They rely on what they say is, quote, not a one piece of biometric evidence to link him to the crime or the crime scene
Enn Burke:besides the like, Arsenal right to matching vehicles,
Matt Molinaro:right. They're just saying, Oh, well, you know, you didn't find any DNA at the crime scene, you know, you didn't find anything related to so what he had a Molotov cocktail. Yeah, it wasn't used. The tactic proves to be unsuccessful, however. And on December 4 2014, about a year after being arrested, he is found guilty of capital murder and awaiting sentencing. Okay. At the sentencing hearing, the most compelling piece of testimony comes from that getaway driver. His wife, Kim Williams,
Enn Burke:I thought you were gonna say that and I was I was hoping that wasn't going to be the case.
Matt Molinaro:Kim Williams cut a deal with prosecution in exchange for her full cooperation and testimony. She had her life sentence reduced to 40 years, which was something that they passed along to the victim's families first and they agreed upon it, which I liked hearing that Yeah. she confesses to everything. She has a lot of remorse. She says Good. She not only drove the vehicles each time, but she aided him in the planning and the carrying out and the covering up of the crimes. Yeah, basically everything but pulling the trigger. She was his moral support even she says on the stand during sentencing, quote, I was so drugged up and so believed in Eric and everything that he told me his anger was my anger, too. And then she provides the following details for the crimes. I'm gonna give it to you bullet bullet point style. Okay. She says that she's able to first describe all the clothes he wore for both murders, which coincide with what any testimony they had said, including the executioner's mask, which they have. It was a Halloween executioner's mask. And she confirmed that that's the one. He also was wearing a bulletproof vest to both events. So should the victims had gotten to their guns, it likely wouldn't have mattered he says she says that his anger was terrible. He was on a mission for revenge. From the moment everything happened. She says that he was giddy about the crime and called it operation tombstone. After the movie Jesus Christ. They originally were planning to use the first car they had that four door sedan for both because there was so inconspicuous, but that the transmission ended up blowing so he had to get the Crown Victoria and when he did get the Crown Victoria, he dressed up as a cop when he pulled up to the McClelland house to disarm them and allow them to open the door for him. Okay, and he's and she also shares that after the McClelland murder, they celebrated with a steak, barbecue cookout.
Enn Burke:Wow.
Matt Molinaro:She also shares he had several more names on his hit list. One of those names was early Wiley, the DA that I mentioned earlier who took Michael McClellan's position. Uh huh. She had caught Eric years prior when he worked for the courthouse overbilling his clients. She didn't turn him in, but she knew about it. And so she was on his hit list. Okay. She said, quote, he would have killed me and my family. And she talks about how even though he was in custody, it was still chilling for her. Yeah, it was knowing how he killed Cynthia. And she didn't do anything. She knew for sure that had he showed up at her house. And she wasn't there. Her family would have been killed. Wow. He was also going to go after judge Glen Ashworth, who was actually his longtime friend. But he believes that Judge Ashworth was the one who leaked the info about him stealing the Dell monitors. Oh, okay. He was planning to kill him with a crossbow. And he was planning to bore out his stomach and put napalm inside what Yeah, wow. Okay. Do you hear noise in the background? A little bit? Yeah. Like I should like, like something has a TV on or something right? Yes. Is did Davey just get home? He's been home for a minute, but I think he doesn't realize Hello. It's excellent. Okay, so on December 17 2017. After the sentencing hearing, he is sentenced to death by lethal injection. Okay. at sentencing judge Mike snipes said quote, you made yourself out. So I'm Charles Bronson Deathwish vigilante in this case, I never bought that. At the end of the day, you murdered a little old lady and you would have murdered two other people if you'd had the opportunity that puts you right there with Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer. He also addresses the county that had been rocked by this whole situation and says to the people of Kaufman County, I know you've been scared for the last couple of years, no reason to be scared anymore. As of October 2021, Eric Lyle Williams is incarcerated at the Polonsky unit of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. I checked out their website and as of recent still now he's still there. He's still locked up. He is seeking appeal. I doubt that's gonna happen. His case is that he was he had poor representation and his wife's deal was a secret to him and blah, blah, sure, who cares? In 2018, author Catherine Casey wrote the book in plain sight colon, the Kaufman county prosecutor murders. Okay. And that same year, the Williams Kim and Eric filed for divorce while in prison. A spokesperson speaking on behalf of Mark asked his mother's had quote, this county the state will remember the good people Mark hassy, Mike McClellan's Cynthia McClelland, who gave their lives putting scum like you in prison. And then another member of family added, you're sorry sob and I hope you rot down. Wow. The children of Mike McClelland have some much harsher things to say. And he remains in prison where he belongs. And that is the story of the Kaufman county murders, and also the murder of Nathan Lyon, and Tom Clements. Wow, wild. I just feel like, I'm not gonna go on a tangent about guns. Because no one needs to hear it. Everyone has their own opinions, and everyone's entitled to them. All I will say is that one of the arguments I hear pro gun often is you know, you want to be protected. You want to feel safe and short. You have the right to do that, which totally understand that sentiment. Yeah, these people were armed to the nines.
Enn Burke:Yeah. Nobody needs 70 guns. Unless you're like an antique gun collector. Yeah, kind of thing. Like you don't need 70 functioning guns.
Matt Molinaro:Right. What is it going to do for you to have 16 guns versus one gun?
Enn Burke:You have two hands, sir. Unless you're some kind of nightmarish octopus man.
Matt Molinaro:And at the end of the day, I mean, there are sick people in this world. Yeah. And it's just so chilling that even with all of the, you know, precautions people try to take when they're on high alert. Yeah, anything could still happen. Yeah, life is so precious and and futile. It's just like, oh, it's I don't know. I just feel so out of leading instead of leading. I mean, sometimes futile. Pleading in this sense. It's just so sad to see all the senseless murder. To prove a point. Yeah, to prove a point to six senses what $600 I say worth of Dell computers and race. And I understand like, oh, well, your your life got messed up. You did it. You stole and what's
Enn Burke:wild about that? Would you take responsibility for your actions? Right, like, clearly if you could afford 70 guns and two different cars, you could easily afford three brand new Dells for yourself. So what was the motivation for that? Did he ever explain why he sold those computer?
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, his his explanation was that he was using he wanted to use the computers to improve the security system at the courthouse or something like that. And so he was just taking the monitors and he was going to use it for for that. Hmm. But then why are you showing up at the courthouse on a Sunday stealing them when you think no one's watching? Right? And why wouldn't you just go through the proper channels, there are channels to do that. Sure. You could have gone to the IT department, you know, done the correct thing.
Enn Burke:Right. And if you're not in the IT of your organs, As a nation, you don't really have any business improving the security of your organization.
Matt Molinaro:Right? And if you are so intent on doing it, just go buy the damn computers, the monitors that Yeah. Go buy the damn monitors. And if you did it for that reason, take the deal. Yeah, take the deal and retain some self respect. And you maybe you could have still had a job,
Enn Burke:the office job, they're somebody who was bound and determined to prove that he was right. Right, someone
Matt Molinaro:who just thinks he was finally getting what it was owed to him, somebody who feels that the world owes him something, and that any bad thing that happened to him, not his fault, he was being you know, damned for no reason. And then when he finally got what he what he was owed, it was, quote unquote, taken away from him. Yeah. So he wanted to take things away from other people. Their lot, and he relished it. No regrets. No regrets celebrated. Monster sick,
Enn Burke:sick. Oh, well, yeah.
Matt Molinaro:So great job. Thank you. I know it's not related to the episode. But what do you How would you rate the episode and then the crime
Enn Burke:episode d minus, it was really badly written and just like not interesting. I will say. Sometimes I find myself like, you know, when I'm recapping going like, oh, well, the episodes probably over and it's like, halfway over? Yeah. This one was I didn't do that. Mainly because I kept having, I was just like, Who is this? Why is this happening? Why are they talking about secret police? Like it was just confusing enough that I didn't feel bored, but not not confusing in an interesting way. So d minus
Matt Molinaro:u. Yeah. I would say like, ever give it a D as well. Just say, same thing. It was very confusing. I found myself rewinding a couple of times to like, see if I missed a name. And then I found myself saying, I don't think it's gonna matter.
Enn Burke:It's not No, and it didn't. And I guess, see for how it dealt with stuff.
Matt Molinaro:I was literally gonna say the same thing, because it looks like it was so whatever.
Enn Burke:Yeah, it was a very whatever topic related episode for sure. Yeah,
Matt Molinaro:it was very far fetched of a plot, which is why I'm not surprised. It wasn't necessarily based on a true crime. Yeah.
Enn Burke:Hey, do you like free stuff? Well, this podcast is totally free. So you should subscribe and you should rate and review it so that other people can enjoy free stuff. Yes, I love free stuff. Me too.
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Enn Burke:Yeah. And you can find us on social media at ripped headlines on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Our email is ripped headlines. pod@gmail.com so please send us an email because we love getting emails.
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Enn Burke:Yes. And there you will find the link to our Patreon as well as our merch store. Our Patreon is patreon.com/n And Matt,
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Matt Molinaro:Also, we want to shout out our brand new Patreon members. Thank you so much to me. Thank you so much to Minkin and to Lauren.
Enn Burke:Thank you for listening to rip from the headlines where you get the facts and some fiction.
Matt Molinaro:We'll see you next week and until then, stay out of the headlines.
Enn Burke:Bye bye