Grandma Yetta Sunglasses

It's a new Season and we are so excited to continue chatting with you all! In Law and Order's Season 4 premiere episode, Sweeps,  the seedy world of tabloid talk shows is explored and Matt recaps the episode. We get new cast members S. Epatha Merkerson and Jill Hennessy and the opening theme song is shortened from it's usual 756 minutes run time. From Geraldo to Jenny Jones, this episode parallels multiple cases but Enn chose the one most closely related; the story of the sexual abuse and abduction of Jody Plauché and the "revenge killing" of Jeff Doucet.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Unknown: 0:00

In this true crime law and order podcast, the episodes are presented by two separate yet equally ridiculous individuals, one who researches the actual crime and the other who recaps the episode. These are their stories. Tada. It's a new day. It's a new dawn. It's a new season. Okay. I love the Nina Simone version of that song, obviously. Oh, yeah. Also, I think this, people are probably going to be mad at me when I say this. I think the version that a Vici does with a woman who I don't know who the singer is. I like it better. Oh, okay. I do know that. I have to listen to it again. I like that version as well. Yeah, it's, it's just she's an incredible singer. It's it's very different style from Nina zone. So I really, I know, right? In a vici. Big, big surprise that there's a little bit of a genre difference there. Yeah, I love that song. I began to fall out of love with it a little bit when I was a huge American Idol fan. Oh, yeah, it was it was just one of those songs that everybody tried to do their own version of. Yeah. Let me just talk about own versions of songs for a moment on these types of shows, just because you slow down the melody, and made it sound creepy. Is that really your own? It's not really that broke groundbreaking. Every time it happens. Nobody with the exception, I think of Kelly Clarkson has been incredible on American Idol. Personally, I understand that for a lot of a lot of the winners. I would agree with you on that. Yeah, for sure. You know, Well, speaking of reality television, I have just one thing to tell you about, which is a TV show that. So miles and I signed up for discovery plus or whatever, so that we could watch that live off the grid show that I mentioned last week? Yes. And he found we finished that. And he found a new show on there. He was like, what we're signed up for this thing for a month. So we might as well like take advantage and see what else is on here before it ends. So he found us a show and it is called 90 Day fiance. Have you ever seen it? First of all, have you never heard of that show before? Now? I've heard of it. I've never watched it. I've only seen clips of it. But I have to say since moving back like Aha. I had friends back in Jersey when that show was out saying like you are watching this show correct based on the other shows I watch. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not. And they would always be like, What are you doing, and they would send me clips and I would crack up and love it. And since I've been back every time I speak to these friends, shout out to Colette, even though she listens. She's always like, how are you not still watching? Beyonce. So I want to but I haven't. I know there's like regular 90 Day fiance we actually started with a show called 90 Day fiance the other way, which is I guess, Americans moving abroad to be with their partner. And just watching like, folks from like Middle America try to figure out how to live in like Qatar or South Africa is kind of amazing. Like, it's just really wild. How How privileged and kind of snooty, a lot of the American folks are on that show. But it's, it's also just really fun because you get to see like different areas of the world and, and experience different cultures and things like that. So it's really, really enjoyable to watch. And I, at first I was like, This is so stupid. I hate this. But I didn't realize I thought it was like we're setting people up across the world. And they have 90 days to decide if they want to get married or not. But it's actually people who've been in relationships for periods of time. And they're just like at that point of moving across the world to be with the person that they supposedly are in love with. But the first one we watched there were several couples where I was like, do you even like each other? Like why? Why are you fighting so hard to be together? When you're horrible to each other? It's it's really great. So definitely check that out. When you have a have a minute. I want to that's how I feel when I watch a lot of those types of shows like you guys, do you like each other. It's just wild. Like, you know, it's they like yell at each other. They flip each other off. And I'm like, and you're fighting to be together because paycheck. Yeah, well, so I looked that up and they get about $1,500 per episode. So they do get something for being on it at least. And I'm assuming some of the folks probably like one Instagram fame and things like that. Oh, definitely. Other than that, the only thing is I have a slight recommendation. Okay, a soft recommendation, a soft recommendation, something that I liked, but I know it's getting mixed reviews critically. So You know, you're one of those people who really takes critics. Opinions to heart. Maybe not but we just saw a movie in the movie theater last night called OMA like Uma Thurman with two M's. It's Caribbean. Yeah, you MMA it's still Urian word for like mum or mama. Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. And it's a like, higher horror psychological movie with Sandra. Oh, it's I thought it was great. Okay, really great. Davey really liked it too. Did you say psychological thriller or thriller? I would say it's a light psychological thriller more of a horror movie. It just has a lot of elements of like suspense that you see more in like the psychological thriller. Okay, category, and there's a lot of things that are up for interpretation. Okay, and they're like in the in the mind, what is it in the mind? Or is it really happening kind of vibe. Okay, some of them. And so I really liked it. It has a mixed reviews out there, but I think the mixed reviews are because it's not really breaking any new ground in the genre. Yeah, but it's still a good movie. And I enjoyed it. So I highly recommend I love Sandra. Oh, so no, she's great. Yeah, that's it. Well, should we get into the episode? I'm excited. All right, let's do it. All right. Well, do you want to? Do you want to do your confession first? Sure. Hello, my confession is that I forgot to watch the law and order episodes. So listeners I will be experiencing this in real time just like you love it. So, as we all know, this is a new season. Oh, yeah. Very exciting. New season a new sort of new cast with a new day in the workroom. Is that rainbow? Grace? I was gonna say is it RuPaul? Drag Race and project? Maybe, probably. Well, we're neither, but we're just as fun. The episode is season four episode one. It's called sweeps? Uh huh. Yeah. And it is not about chimney sweeps. Do they still call anything sweeps? Like, I remember growing up, but I don't know that. I hear that anymore. It's not common to use. But I did. Look, I was looking it up just to find out when they're supposed to be. Yeah. But yet, it's still a thing. Still saying because advertising is still a thing. So even though cable television is not quite as the main medium anymore. Yeah, they still do this on like, I think on Netflix and all the streaming platforms too. And is it in like may there's four months out of the year, and that are all separated? And is it kind of is sweeps referring to like getting rid of the old shows that aren't performing well, and bringing in new stuff? I think that's the decision making. Okay, around the results of the sweeps periods is that but what it is, from what I understand is, it's the times when advertisers they spend a lot of money for like the big advertising at that time. And so it's in the best interest of the network's to get as many viewers as they possibly can during that time to generate Oh, okay, okay. Okay. It's based on like Nielsen ratings and ratings. Yeah. So they might either like save the really good episodes or like, do really sensational. Try to get viewers got it? Yeah, that's the one you would see like, guest stars and brand new shows coming out and stuff like that, you know, okay. Okay. All right. So this is season four. It's a new season we start out with wait till you see this. We start out seeing things through the perspective of a video camera, like a camera, man. Okay, so it's like a show within a show almost. Oh, very Truman Show. Yes. It's very meta or whatever. Who I should add that to our Patreon list. I remember that being a good one. I do, too. I added a few too. So yeah, I did throw it on there. Okay. So we're watching through the perspective of a video camera lens recording this show within the show, it's a caravan filming a show called Final confession. Okay. And it's a true Crimea type of show like, you will see, it's hosted by a man named Rick Mason who were following around backstage, you know, as we're setting up, and we're getting some, like, behind the scenes looks like the studio and whatever. And they were following the host and he's saying that they're on location to interview a convicted child molester. And one of his survivors in an on location where right that's That was my question, because there he's doing this interview from like the some weird backstage area that's undisclosed right but when he walks out of It looks like it was just a random building. And they're in the street now like in an alleyway. As they come around filming, did they forget what on location means? Well, this is where this is where the on location part comes in. All right, okay. So they go into a restaurant. And when they walk into the restaurant, it's not set up. Like for dining, it's set up as an audience. They've cleared out the restaurant to set up this audience there. And the crowd in in the restaurant applauds him, okay. And he says that, they're here to interview, Dr. Joseph Vinton, who is a psychiatrist who spent 18 months in prison for the molestation of seven children, if he and the reason they're at this restaurant, and this is the on location part is because one of the survivors whose name is Scotty, is here as well. And he would be brought to this restaurant after his sessions with a psychiatrist when he would molest him. It's sort of unclear, it seems like a place where he would take him to kind of make it seem not so bad what he did here, and then yeah, and then beg him not to tell anybody or kind of bribe him. So this is the restaurant, they're back at the scene. And I thought this is wildly inappropriate. Yes. Why I like when he said he was going to interview the convicted molester. And one of the survivors, I was like, Oh, please, God, say this is at least like, two separate locations. Yeah, like one of those values via broadcast type path. Still not great. But I mean, that's not what it is. So he says to the audience, you know, this is Dr. Fenton. Here's what he did. 18 months in prison is this sentence justice, and the audience kind of like jeers, and the host goes over to this abuser. And he says, What do you think? Do you think that was justice that you only got this amount of time? And he's has I don't know what justice is. And I'm just here to help because I changed in prison, and I want to stop if this could help bring closure or whatever. And he says he wrote a book in prison. And the audience of understandably, is like, gross. It's kind of like a Jerry Springer type of audience. They're very active. Yeah. Okay. And then we have Scotty Fisher, who is the young man who is sitting nearby, he was the survivor and he's with his mother. And suddenly, as they go to talk to him, from behind the, the host, Mr. Mason, you hear gunshots rang out. Someone has stood up from the audience and shot the doctor. who is who? Spoiler alert, he dies. And he's lying there and then a man in a suit comes out and shoots the shooter. Oh, wow. Okay. He does not die. He just like, you know, drops his gun. It's clearly someone who's trained to like he's like an officer, it seems like or a bodyguard kind of thing. Yeah. The opening credits begin. And I have to tell you, they figured out their formula. I know, I read that this was the first season where the title sequence is not nearly as long. Yeah, so I thought I had plenty of time. Oh, so I ran out to the store. I bought a ham. Uh huh. I brought it home. I was starting to put all the clothes in it. pineapple rings. I thought I'd have time to at least put this in for a long time and start slicing it before and have a snack when it came. Right. Right. You know, I almost burned the ham. I had to run back to the TV. Oh, my God, Eric disappointed. But they've definitely figured out the opening credits. So I don't have to fast but we're so great. So you're back. And Logan and Brisco are back and they're interviewing Rick Mason, who was the host of the show. And he says that the shooter was Scotties father Scotty is the survivor remember? Uh huh. And he knew who he was when he saw him. But he he wasn't invited here. And he never thought he would do something like that. Yeah, he says that he couldn't have possibly known this was happening ahead of time because he says that every episode of his show is shot on location. And nobody, even the crew knows where they're doing or what they're going to be talking about on the topic until the day of okay, is that possible at all for a show like this, like all the setup that is involved that nobody has a clue day of probably not now, probably the day before could be feasible, but they have seems really difficult, right? I mean, you have to secure the interviewee is at least right? And then make sure that they're available to take this trip to wherever, right anyway. So that's his that's his deal. Scotty and his mother Sarah are outside and Scotty is played by a young David Krumholtz, which is a name I didn't recognize but a face I definitely recognize because he's okay actually been in a bunch of things. He had a recurring role in the close there. He was also an ER and he's been in like, a billion shows, and I didn't watch the show, but the show numbers that came out. Oh, yeah, I didn't see that. He was like the main star of that for like, five years. So good freedom. Holtz okay. I'm just doing a quick search. i Oh, I know that face. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So he is the young Scotty. And he says that he was worried about his dad. Because, you know, he got shot. And his mom Sarah says that his dad was a maniac. And that's why she divorced him. And she can't believe he did this and it's traumatizing for her. And she regrets even coming now. And Briscoe they after this interview process goes like alright, well, it seems pretty cut and dried to me. But Logan thinks this is worth looking into. Because how did they even know that they were there? And right, we should figure out if this was a setup. Yeah. Back at the station, we are casually introduced to our new captain, or actually she's a lieutenant. So I don't know if that makes her, you know, higher than Cragin was but Cragin is no more he's moved over to the Special Victims Unit. And we have the actress s Epatha Merkerson as Lieutenant Anita Van Buren. I recognize her yeah, you would definitely recognize her. She's actually been like a guest star in another capacity on the show so far. And she's gonna be on the show for like, a zillion seasons. Yeah, literally. 17. Yeah. So get comfy with her. I like her. I'm always yeah, I've always been a fan of her. Great. So she's come over from the Narcotics Division. And she's the new boss. And she agrees with Logan that when someone gets shot it should be looking at too regardless. Logan says, why would the father who by the way his name is said so I'll start referring to him as said why would say to be someplace he wasn't even supposed to know about really on the day on the day when 4 million people are supposedly watching the show. My daughter's wedding. The day of my cats kidson era Lieutenant Van Buren says that listen, America loves these types of shows for better for worse. And she says you have to look into it. I'll give you at least a day. Give it a day to see if anything shakes out and and get some traction going on the case. So they go to interview. The other shooter. The guy in the suit who shot said he is a security guard or head of security. His name is Barry Talbot. And he works for the show for Mr. Mason. He says that he had no idea that Cid was going to be there. But he did know who he was ahead of time. And he knew that he is sort of a loose cannon. So he would have been on the lookout for him. He had no idea he was going to be there. And so that's why he took a shot. As soon as he saw what happened. He knew what was going down. We learn very shortly afterwards that this security guard has a history of being a police officer for over a decade. And also Briscoe thinks that's kind of suspicious that someone who has a history in law enforcement and is a literally a bodyguard meant to be securing this scene would have not noticed this guy in the crowd when he admitted that he knew who he was and that he knew he was loose cannon. Okay, so he's like this is kind of fishy. Maybe Logan has something maybe we should be looking into this a little bit more. We also find out that said the father is an ex Army Ranger with experience using firearms even more suspicious so they go to questions said he's in the hospital. He's fine though. He just has like a, merely a flesh wound. And he says that Vinton That's the man he shot the molester. Vinton was trash, and no jury will convict him for doing the right thing. So keeping my mouth shut. He's not he's not remorseful whatsoever. Yeah. So they leave him and they go follow up with Scotty and his mother again. And there's a lot of scenes when they follow up with Scotty and his mother. And each time she's sitting in the foreground, and he's kind of like lingering in the background area. She says that she would have never gone on the show if this were even a possibility in her mind at all. And the only reason she did it in the first place was she thought she was going to get closure for them. It has been a long, hard Recovery Road for Scotty and for her family. And she hoped that maybe it would help other people that was kind of how it was presented to her. And it's clear that they're like kind of displaying the kind of true crime and media that's Very exploitive and occasional and kind of tricks victims and survivors. It's, you know, just sort of trash TV that was very pervasive especially in the 90s for sure. Scotty says he's okay with everything he was okay with going on the show because it's been three years and he's he's doing okay. And when they bring up his dad, he says that his dad has a right to be mad and had a right to be mad. Sarah is like Scotty you shouldn't get involved with this and then he storms off in a little bit. She says that her husband's temper destroyed, everything has destroyed Scotty and she never would have told said what was going on. So they're barking up the wrong tree. If they think that she alerted Scotty or alerted said of where they were going. She didn't want him to be any part of it. Okay. Outside of their apartment, Briscoe puts on sunglasses, that he they have a lanyard or Tasha on the pack back home. And they literally look like he borrowed them from grandma Yetta on. And they pick up a newspaper and they see an article happening to say that the show final confession because of this act of shooting during the sweeps period, which is where we are at shocker. It's going to increase ratings like astronomically for the show. Okay, so Brooke Briscoes has listened Logan, that might sound suspicious, but you're just blaming everybody all willy nilly. The host is probably not responsible. Okay. I think Chris Voss backface all this information. But, you know, instead he suggested let's go check with the hotel that everyone was staying at and see if anything suspicious went on there. See if anybody commingled when they weren't supposed to? Okay, so at the hotel, we're staying. Scotty and his mom were in one room. Another room had the host, Mr. Mason, and also staying there was the head of security Talbot at the hotel, they asked some questions, and they find out that Talbot was staying there for sure. And that the host Mason was there as well. But he left at about 7pm On the day in question, and, or the day before the filming. And they asked if there's any like payphones where anybody could have used the public phone that they would have been like, private and there's one payphone on the third floor. They go check the payphone records at

9: 22:31

53pm. There was a call made to Sid Fisher's house, which is the Father. So they're like, well, Mason was already gone by that point. But a call was made to the house. So now Talbot the head of security is their main suspects back at this station, Lieutenant Van Buren lets them know that she found out that Talbot is also a liar. He said that his time on the force was 20 years, but he actually only spent 16 years there. And the last four years. He was on like, desk duty for a little while there was sort of a shady deal going on. It looked like he might have been embezzling funds or something like that. So he's got a kind of shady record. It's not 20 years on the force at 16 years with a sort of forced retirement. It looks like okay, so Van Buren says we need to talk to him and they bring him in. And she puts out she comes in the room, much more than Cragin ever did. Yeah. And she puts the pressure on Talbot and says, you're full of it. I looked up your record. And he finally breaks and says, Okay, fine. I did hear Mason on the phone the day before the recording. And she was talking to his lawyer. And he overheard him saying something to his lawyer like, what do you want me to do? cancel the show? Just tell me how much trouble I'll be in if it happens. Ooh, that's not good. Not good at all. So they go to talk to Mason with his lawyer. Okay, and he's very dodgy, and his lawyer whose name is Alice Sutton. She's dressed like a train conductor 100% Without the Hat. And she's played by a guest star. Also. Her name is Melissa Leo. Melissa Leo has won an Academy Award and Emmy Award, a Golden Globe Award to Critics Choice Awards and a Screen Actors Guild Award. Let's does that. Does that make her an EGOT? No, because she doesn't have a Tony. Okay, but do not worry. Because her oh yeah, she was in Wayward Pines, all my children. She played a character on Homicide Life on the Street for a while. She was in the fighter which was a great movie. She was in I think frozen or at Mystic River, maybe or frozen river. She's been in a lot of stuff. So I was like, good for you, girl. She was a voice and Bojack Horseman. Oh, yes, I did see that too. Like It's nice to see you still doing work so good for her. So back to her dress as a train conductor. Also, her hairstyle is 90s Topsy Tail magic 100 Oh my god, I love it. It's quite a look. She says that this supposed conversation never happened. And had it happened, it would have been privileged information because it's her client. And also she says that the security guard that their talk they spoke to about all this, he was fired the day after the incident. And he at the time of hearing this imaginary conversation as an employee of Mr. Mason by proxy, his her client as well. And that would also be subject to privilege. All right. And she's like, bye bye. They and they leave. So back with Lieutenant ampere, and she has the detectives go talk to our resident psychologist, Dr. Olivet. And they get her opinion over lunch. She's literally like I'm trying to eat. Yeah. And she says that she thinks it makes more sense that Scotty would be the one to call his dad versus anyone else in the hotel. So they just decided to go follow up with Scotty and his mother again. And it's very obvious right away, that she's trying to protect him. She doesn't want them to say anything. But she does mention that she should have known what to expect. On the show. She just flipped Lee says or flippantly says that she should have known what to expect on the show because she's seen it before. And she knows how Mason's TV show usually goes. Yeah, so they're like, Alright, let's go talk to people who might be involved in the biz. They go talk to some do they find Luann Telesat. Show job is baby. By the way, did you hear about her most recent arrest? Oh, she was arrested? Again. Maybe she wasn't arrested. She was thrown out of a piano bar. Oh, first. She was really really drunk. Right? Yeah. And she was like screaming and crying. But she put out some kind of statement saying she's going back into she had a little slip. And she's taken her recovery. Gotcha. Seriously. For the one? Yeah. But good for her for taking responsibility and apologizing right away. Yeah. So they, um, they follow up with this random TV exec, who has never explained who he is. But he confirms that this event, actually in their business was good TV. And that everyone around knows that and is, is jealous of the kind of ratings he's going to get because of it. He directs them to talk to a former employee of masons, and they go talk to this woman and she says that she quit the job with final confession. Because she realized that the show and her boss were trash, basically. And she provides them with a tape of the show as proof that she from a previous episode, an event that led her to be like, I can't do this anymore. Okay, okay. I don't know how she would still have this as a former employee and how she would have just had it on hand at her new location where she works, but she does. All right. So they go bring this tape back to the station and they let Lieutenant Van Buren and the new ADA Claire Kincaid, who is taking the place of Robin at Oh, she is played by Jill Hennessy. Okay, who is famous for a few other shows, particularly crossing Jordan. She was the star of that for like, the whole time it was on. Never saw that. Ah, that was a pretty I've seen episodes. Okay. It was pretty good. All right. She was like a forensic psychologist. That was like solving crimes or something. Interesting. Okay. So she's the new ADA Kincaid. And so it's Logan Briscoe, Van Buuren. And Kincaid in the room and they're like, look at this tape. And isn't that neat? Wouldn't you think my collections? They're like, look at this cape tape and and see what you think if we can bring a case against him based on, you know, prior events? Yeah. So they show the tape. It's pretty upsetting. There are three singers on stage together. And they're either in drag, or they're perhaps just gender non conforming or trans. But it's, it's made to believe, like show that they're just in drag. Okay. And the host masons, as you know, these, these three ladies are here to sing. And we're gonna cut to commercial break. And then the camera keeps rolling because it's raw footage. And during the commercial break, he goes over to one of the women or to one of the performers and says to one of them a Mary. Basically, I want you to come out on the show. It'd be great. And it looks like Mary's uncomfortable with it. But Mason assures Mary that, you know, this is going to be a good thing. And it's going to be great TV and it's the right thing to do. The show comes back. And quickly Mason says, Oh, we have Mary's parents, and Mary's actual name is and he uses like, either her dead name or her name when she's out of drag. And then both parents come out and they don't recognize their child. And then Mary removes their wig, and earrings. And the father and mother are very upset. And it's a big, you know, big to do. And they turn the tape off. And we find out that, you know, after this happened, the father of Mary ends up having a coronary shortly afterwards, and they suggest that it has to do with the shock of of this event, and that Mary felt so guilty that they died by suicide afterwards. Okay, okay. So they are saying this is the kind of show he's producing. This is the kind of repercussions that happen. And the kind of thing that he has no regard for. The order part starts right after this. Okay, thank God. Kincaid goes back to the DHS office. And she's with stone and chef, and she's wondering what she should do, because it's a tricky case. And do they have enough? There's issues that will come up with the First Amendment and the optics of this specific thing? Will anybody really feel bad for the victim of the crime since he was convicted child molester? You know, will people sympathize with the Father, and stone has the idea that maybe they can convince Sid, the Father, that he's the target of the investigation at large, and that his son Scotty, will be charged with him as an accessory? Because they believe he called him even though they're trying to go after Mason. They're hoping that by letting said no, that him and his son could be charged for something, we'll get him to cooperate. Gotcha. So they talk to him and he plays hardball. He's like, I'm not talking. He he says that. Mason told them where the show would be. And they know that's not true, because Mason was already out of the hotel by that point. And so there's like a fake out where stone and Kincaid are like, Okay, we're gonna charge you and your son, and they could go to walk out like parents do when their kid are taking too long, like anything leaving, and it works. Before they walk out of the room. He tells them, I'll tell you what you want to know. And I'll accept a deal, which they offer for manslaughter. As long as Scotty doesn't have to appear in court, even as a witness. Okay, and they're like, it's gonna be hard, but we'll see what we could do. And so he says that Mason called him and told them where it was happening. And stone is like, no, again, this is a lie. You're trying to protect your son. We know this is a lie, and I'm not gonna let you perjure yourself. Right. So this is all useless and stones eyes and they leave. They go to follow up again with Scotty and his mum. And eventually in the scene, he is scared enough to admit that he did call his dad he was the one from the hotel he called his dad and told him where it was gonna be. So now after getting this information out of him there at the police station when they do this, they bring in said it's like a very Ricki Lake surprise moment. Yeah, they bring him in the room and said, you know, Hey, your son just confessed. And he's like, Oh, my God, I thought you weren't gonna get him involved. And then the mom and dad, the are fighting with each other in the room who's responsible for all of this, and he's blaming her. And she says, I was trying to focus on recovery. And he says to her, keep your recovery, I got revenge. So with all of this, they go back to Schiff, who was worried where the scare tactics might like end up making them look like because he says like, he just basically scared both sides into into cooperating, and he hopes it will make them look ridiculous. And Stone says, I'd wear a clown makeup to trial if I can get me a conviction. And I thought courtroom clowns coming to NBC this fall, honestly. So stoning Kincaid, they are facing off with Mason and his attorney Topsy Tail again. And he says he's gonna take his chances in court. I'm not taking any kind of deal. I'm not worried. And he says, Don't be late. It's live before he leaves the room. Okay, good one. Yeah. With the judge. Topsy Tail tries to withhold the phone call that she had this supposedly One call that didn't happen. Now she's admitting it happened. But she's saying it should be withheld from evidence because of all the reasons she's had before. The judge isn't buying it. She says it's admissible. And so we had to trial before we go to trial stone and Topsy Tail face off on the courtroom stairs, and they have a little like, we'll see who gets their way. Opening statements happen and then Talbot, the head of security. He's brought on a stand, and He reveals that the phone conversation that Mason had with the lawyer tells everything that he heard, and then he says that Mason knew that Sid would be there. And that dangerous, he said that dangerous things are supposed to happen on TV. Topsy Tail then comes on the sand and or comes to question him cross examine and makes him look like an unreliable witness. So who knows? Then sit testifies next, and he says that he was provoked to kill them in by Mason himself, the host on cross examination, however, they bring up his deal where his son was threatened with an indictment. And you know, you're just trying to get your son a deal. Next, Scotty is on the stand. And he testifies, saying that he was scared to see Dr. Fenton, but that the host Mason told him that he needed to call his father and tell him where the filming would be. Because he couldn't do it himself. But Scott, he had to, okay, so in between, like trial dates, and how they have these like scenes, like before they interview like a big person, and it's, I guess it's a different day. In between the trial dates. Schiff is warning stone that when Mason takes the stand, which is coming up next, he may be a better performer than he is. And in fact, Mason had a press conference just today, where he's confident that his acquittal is imminent. Back in court, Mason is on the stand. And he testifies that he had Scotties best interests at heart. He never told Scotty to call his dad, he would never do such a thing. He actually asked Talbot to up his security on the day. And that's why he fired him the next day, because obviously it didn't work. And he says that he never does anything unethical on his show ever. Alright, so they're like, well, that's not true. So stone is like, I want stone attempts to mention the previous show. The one we talked about earlier with this drag performer. Yes. And there's an objection. And the judge agrees and says, you know, you can't just bring that into evidence. It's shaky. So stone is visibly shaken. And he's like, okay, he's, he finishes cross examination doesn't get much out of Mason. But in the meantime, he comes up with the idea that maybe if they put the previous employee that provided the tape on the stand, she could testify about previous episodes, because they get him to say that he never does anything cessation on the show. And so this would be like admissible. Okay. I don't know. It works, though. The judge says yes, if you can have her testify for sure. So she is on the stand next, and she testifies that Mason regularly lied to debt lighted guests. He would coerce them into dangerous situations with their attackers, usually without them knowing. And he even let some one guest in particular, get drugs to get loosened up before the before their interview, knowing that this was someone who had a drug problem. And this particular guest ended up dying of an overdose, and that another guest disappeared in a parking lot after appearing on the show with their previous attacker. And so this is all kind of stuff that happened. And she testifies that when the one victim died of an overdose, his reaction was he wished it had happened on the air. Oh, yeah. So the jury goes out, they come back. They find him not guilty of murder one, but they find him guilty of facilitation. He gets 18 months. And then we get the last scene on the courtroom stairs with the sad commentary that he gets 18 months which is the same that the trouble Esther got the beginning of the show that he had said was not justice. And Stone says he'll probably write a book while he's in jail, too. And it'll only man more famous when he comes out. Yeah, and that is the sad end of the episode. We Great job. Thank you. It's a bummer of an episode. But yeah, well, speaking of bummers, are you ready to hear the true crime that inspired this episode? I am and I had to guess, but I know it's wrong because I looked up my guests and it's happened like 10 years later. Okay, so this episode was actually inspired by a couple of different crimes or incidents. The most direct one didn't really have much of a story behind it. So that's not the one I chose. But there was an episode of Geraldo Rivera, where they had a bunch of Nazis on the show, and I guess a giant fight broke out and Geraldo his nose got broken. Oh, I actually remember hearing about that from a documentary I watched about those types of shows. Yeah. And they mentioned it in the episode. Oh, they reference Geraldo, and an episode about Nazis. Okay. Yeah. So that's the one that at least is like, first mentioned as inspiring the episode, they also talk about the case of Scott. That's what I thought, but that was later I think, oh, maybe, you know, I think you're right, because I think it says like, this episode would like prove to be, you know, yeah. Relevant to these other stories. And there was another one where a woman was killed, and it was after she had appeared on a true not a true crime, a talk show like that. But it was unrelated to the people she was on it with. Like, it just so happened. It was total coincidence, apparently. Yeah. But the case that is, I think the biggest inspiration for it is the story of Gary plough. Shea. Do you know that name? No, I don't think so. All right. Well, then here we go. So Leon, Gary O'Shea, who goes by Gary plush a, was born November 10 1945. in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He briefly served in the US Air Force. And then after he left the Air Force, he became like a heavy equipment salesman. It sounds like, you know, construction or agriculture equipment type stuff, okay. He also was a camera man for a local news station. And in his spare time, he coached Little League baseball. And all of the articles that I could find like everybody loved this guy. They thought he was just so sweet, really great. always had a smile on his face, essentially. Okay, he married a woman named June. And together they had four children, three boys and a daughter. And the family enrolled their kids in a karate class with a well known and respected instructor in the community, who is a 25 year old named Jeff Doucet, who was a former Marine who became kind of a family friend that O'Shea's the the push a boys loved spending time with him. They thought he was really fun that they really enjoyed karate with him. The family trusted him. So, okay, so let me get these people. So this is the karate instructor. correct for this family. This these kits? Correct. And the kids are the children of Leon. Of Yeah, Gary, Gary. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, Jeff Doucet would often take kids because he was a karate instructor, he would take them to tournaments around it sounds like they went kind of everywhere from like, Long Beach to Miami. So sounds like he was traveling with this group of kids for karate tournaments across the United States. And in a school newspaper, the plushies 11 year old son Jody said that Jeff to set was, quote, all of our best friend. So he said, you know, the kids liked him, etc. By the way, the son's name is Jodi and so I just want to reiterate that because I have only ever heard that used as a name for women. Me too. And so I like several times was like, Who am I talking about? I because I his mom's name is June so I was getting it confused a couple times. I love the name June by the way, June Yeah, cute. Alright, so June plus a in speaking about Jeff to set said quote, you wouldn't believe what he's done for my children. Especially the youngest, who's a slow learner. His balance was unbelievably off he couldn't throw a punch without falling down and his coordination was not very good. Now he jumps rope like a boxer he's got good balance and he remembers things when he couldn't before. So all of that was going well for the plus Shea kids but the relationship between June and Gary was apparently not great. started to kind of go south apparently. Sounds like Jun had a singing career. Okay, that she had kind of given up to raise her family and she felt kind of like stifled by just being a stay at home mom according to some of the articles that I read. And some of them also mentioned that Gary was kind of jealous and protective like if June got any attention from other men. He would kind of blow up at it according to some of the articles that I read. Okay, so their relationship deteriorated and Gary moved out of the family home in August of 1983. And after he moved out Jeff to set the karate instructor started spending more time with the family and giving more attention to the kids. And June would say that the kids like being with Jeff, he's kind and considerate. He's a good friend who provided emotional support. So now on February 19 1984, Jeff Doucet came to the plush a household and told June that he wanted to take 11 year old Jody for a ride to show him some construction work that he'd been doing. And they'd be back in about 15 minutes and since he was a trusted family friend and her boys loved spending time with him. June thought nothing of it, and they drove away. Okay. When he did not return after several hours, June became alarmed and called her brother Mike Barnett, who was a deputy sheriff is this is this is 1980 84. So no cell phones or anything, right? No, probably not. Not less. You're like, Rich. Yeah. Okay. So, Mike Barnett, the sheriff, a deputy sheriff who was June's brother, the two of them thought Maybe Jeff had taken Jody to the town of Port Arthur, which is Jeff he sets hometown. The plush chaise had apparently been to Port Arthur with Jeff before. And so they thought maybe he took Jody there to like, visit family or whatever. And, you know, he's just over there. we've neglected to tell them. Yeah. But when they arrived in Port Arthur, they went to the Doucet family home and his mother Elia said that Jodie and Jeff had been there, but they were gone by the time that the mother Jun and Mike Barnett arrived. So what actually happened that day is, according to many of the articles that I read, Jeff Doucet had a had some financial and like legal issues going on. Sounds like he embezzled about$15,000 from an employer and he was fleeing Baton Rouge to avoid facing those charges. And so Jeff took Jody, and first they went to the family home in Port Arthur, Texas to get money. And he also took his brother's birth certificate, so that he could get a fake ID under his brother's name. And then he put them he took Jody and they got on a bus together heading to the West Coast. Along the way, do set shaved off his beard and dyed Jodi's blonde hair black so that a they were less recognizable and be with the hair color. He could try to pass Jody off as a son to anyone who questioned why they were together. And they made it all the way from Baton Rouge to Anaheim. Where do you set checked them into a motel in Anaheim near Disneyland? Wow. At one point while they were in Anaheim, it sounds like Jeff was making calls back to the plush a family home. And there's a little bit of like fuzzy details in the articles that I read about the nature of those calls. Some of them indicate that Jeff was tell was trying to play all of this off as like God or June the mother was in love with him. And she was supposed to come out to California with the rest of the kids. That's all a little strange. But at some point, they were on the phone together. And Jody, the son got on the phone with the mother June. And because Jeff had been calling and the police had been notified. They traced the call and we're able to find where Jeff Doucet was calling the push a family home from so they tracked him to this hotel in Anaheim. Okay, good. So the police showed up and I watched an interview with God the son who's now grown up. And he talked about how he was in the hotel room and just like watching TV when police like kicked down the door and, you know, pushed Jeff to set up against a wall and escorted God out of the room. That has been terrible. I mean, the whole experience must have been terrifying, at least in retrospect, but that's yeah, terrifying. So when police questioned God, he told them that Jeff hadn't done anything to him. And however, when they performed a physical examination, God says that he knew that they would find Jeff do sets DNA evidence on him or in him. And he had lied to police about Jeff not assaulting him because he was afraid that Jeff would get out of police custody and hurt him for ratting him. out so he lied to, you know, protect himself. Terrible. Do set meanwhile, initially lied to investigators and said that you know he hadn't done anything to Jodi but eventually he confessed to police that he had sexually assaulted Jodi, as well as other children in Baton Rouge. And lab results from the physical examination of Jody confirms this statement. In a later interview, Jody would talk about how the how Jeff Doucet had groomed him and how the first time he remembered anything weird happening. Doucet was letting him drive his car. He was 10 or 11. Oh my God. And so he was letting him drive around in his car. And then Jeff Doucet put his hand in Jodi's lap. And Jodie says he thinks that was like the first test to see if he would react to do set like crossing boundaries. Yeah. And he says he froze because he didn't know how to react. And so that was kind of the the test he says that Jeff do set did to see like, what how far can I push this? And so he sexually assaulted God progressively for almost the course of a full year. Yeah. And Jodie says he was too afraid to say anything to his parents because he was afraid either that they wouldn't believe him. Or he was really afraid that his father would kill Doucet. Yeah. And he said that part of the reason that Dousset was able to like get away with all of this is that these are kind of like paraphrased his words. This is not me saying this. He said that he was a really great guy. He was really fun to be around. But he says it was just those 30 minutes a day that I had to deal with a monster. So they're both in Anaheim in police custody at this point. And Jeff is put on a flight back to Louisiana to stand trial for his charges. He lands on March 16 1984, back in Louisiana on an American Airlines flight and police escort him through the airport to bring him into custody to face charges. news cameras, of course, we're there to capture his return to Louisiana because this was kind of a big story. Especially because it was involved taking a child from one side of the country to the other Yeah. And so they there was a bunch of cameras there filming his return and the have the cameras on him when suddenly, at a nearby payphone a man turns around, reaches down into his boot pulls out a gun and shoots Jeff Doucet in the head. Wow. That man was Jodi's father, Gary push a. The push Shay's, it turns out had this connection to Mike Barnett, the the brother in law, who worked in the Sheriff's Department, who had apparently called the plush chaise, when he heard what had when he heard what Jeff had confessed to in Anaheim. He called the plushies to kind of like give them a heads up so that they weren't like caught off guard by all of this, right because he would be coming back for for trial and all that. Yes, exactly. And so he had told Gary and Jun push a what Jeff Doucet had done, which of course, they were horrified and upset. And Barnett would later say that plus Shay had replied, I'll kill that SOB at this point as Jodi returned back to his parents. Okay, so yeah, sorry. So Jodie actually came back before Jeff. Okay. So they were reunited and there's footage of them being reunited in the airport as well. Good. Okay. So after Mike Barnett had told Gary plus Shay what Jeff Doucet had done to his son, Gary spent some time in a local bar called The Cotton Club, and was talking with other patrons about two sets returned about Rouge. One of those patrons happened to be a person who worked at WB RZ news, which was the news crew that was filming Jeff two sets return and he told Gary that do Shea do say his flight was supposed to arrive at 9:08pm. So the news camera man or a staff member at WB RZ told Gary push a when Doucet was supposed to land in Baton Rouge. So plus a then went to the airport. He put on a baseball cap and sunglasses so that he wasn't kind of drawing attention. He went to the payphone kind of outside of the terminal that the flight was supposed to arrive at and made a phone call to a friend who I think asked to remain anonymous because I couldn't find their name anywhere and one of the articles says an unnamed friend, so Okay, apparently Gary on this phone call to his friend told the police are told this person I'm about to kill Jeff do said. He said I see him coming. You're about to hear gunshots and the friend like tried to immediately call police and tell them about what was happening but was unsuccessful and so Jeff do set was caught or Gary plushy was caught on camera murdering Jeff do set in front of the the news reporters. Wow. Wow. Mike Barnett, who was the officer and family friend and brother in law to the bush days was there at the scene and you can watch the footage and thankfully I kind of I did watch it because I wanted to see it. A lot of this revolved around the fact that this was filmed. Yeah. And so I did watch the footage and thankfully the camera is not on Jeff to set when he is shot but you see, Gary push a pull out a gun in an open fire and the people are screaming. Yeah. Chilling. So Mike Barnett is there he tackles Gary against the wall and in the footage you can hear him shout at him. Why Gary? Why'd you do it as he like disarms his friend. Plus a is like weeping in tears and says if someone did it to your kid you do it to Jeff to set died of his injuries in his in the hospital the next day, which I'm shocked he survived that long. I guess it was at nine o'clock at night. So maybe he just made it a couple hours. Who knows? Yeah, Gary push a was charged with second degree murder. But friends quickly posted his$100,000 bail and he was released from custody the next day, he was represented by an attorney named foster foxy Sanders and he who goes by foxy Sanders, which I know both of us try never to make jokes while we are telling the true crime story, but I just have to point out that that sounds like a Foghorn Leghorn character. It really we have had some weird. I shouldn't say we are we've had some whimsical name. Yes. Yes. Very unique names. Yeah. Um, so plus, Shay told his lawyer that he didn't want Jeff to set to be able to do this to any other kids. And he told Sanders who would then later tell, you know, news reporters that plushie had said that he heard the voice of Christ, who had compelled him to kill Dousset. Sanders, his lawyer was pretty confident that he could persuade a jury to acquit push a of all murder charges. And that Jodi's kidnapping had pushed Gary into quote, a psychotic state. And he was unable to tell right from wrong, which sounds like an in like a not guilty by reason of insanity defense. But that doesn't seem to be how he pleaded. Yeah, I wonder if there had a temporary insanity thing like clause at that time or something? Yeah, I don't know. But Sanders would say, quote, Gary thought he had a divine mandate to do what he thought he had to be done to protect his family. He had a mirror image of right and wrong, he thought what he was doing was right. As you can imagine, the case had already gotten a lot of media attention. And now it's getting even more media attention because this murder was captured on the news. And so it sparked a lot of debate about the essentially revenge killing and whether push a should be sent to prison for murder, or, quote, celebrated for ridding the world of a dangerous criminal. Okay, one thing, one thing I really don't like about his lawyer Sanders is remember this as 1984. And he was kind of doing what seems like sort of a media circuit to speak to different news channels about the case. And in a lot of these, he would show a copy of the gay advocate, which is a weekly gay magazine, and he claimed that Doucet gave it to 11 year old god and so he was kind of implying that Jeff Doucet was gay and he was connecting homosexuality with child molestation. And so I just want to point out that 90% of people who sexually assault children or heterosexual men, yeah, so just quick sidebar, they're important, important sidebar, because that is a incorrect stereotype that is still pervasive. Yes. So one of the articles I read that said, a hero was born in this city of Mississippi, where men in caps have passions that run from crawfish to Gator hunts, pickup trucks, family ties, and homophobia. And so this this article that was interviewing locals kind of about how they felt about push a murdering to set they would they almost all of them were like, yeah, he's totally right. He should have done that. And one of them. A woman named Linda Boyd said if the man was a homo he got what he deserved. So fuck you, Linda boy, you in an article with the Washington Post journalist art Harris said quote from strangers in the street to boys at the Cotton Club where Gary push I used to drink Miller lights. Locals had already acquitted him. A riverboat captain by the name of Murray curry. said quote, he's a father who done it out of love for his child and for his pride. And as I said, a lot of locals like donated to his bail fund to get him out of police custody while awaiting trial. Right. Robert Hester, who was the assistant prosecutor said quote, The dilemma is this. If we say what he did isn't wrong. Do we open the door for the husband of a rape victim or the mother of a murdered child to do the same thing? Right? Do we declare open season on child molesters than rapists than burglars? If the grand jury says Gary, what you did is forgivable. forgivable? What do we do about the next victims revenge? Where do you draw the line? So, Gary push a was eventually able to strike a plea deal for a manslaughter charge. And at sentencing, the judge decided that sending push a to jail would not serve the public good. And that plushie did not intend harm to anyone else now that other than the now deceased Jeff Doucet instead of serving jail time Gary plushy was sentenced to five years of probation and 300 hours of community service. The Doucet family who, you know, of course loved their son Jeff for their brother Jeff was pretty outraged by this because they felt like Jeff's murder was like, first of all, they were like none of these charges against Jeff have ever been proven in a court of law. So it's he had he's innocent till proven guilty was kind of their perspective. And they also felt that the plushies connections with the police allowed them to kind of like sweep this under the rug and get a pretty lenient sentence for Gary push a murdering their family member. Yeah. In 2014. When he was in his 60s Gary plus Shay suffered a stroke and passed away. And his obituary describes him as someone who quote saw beauty and everything was a loyal friend to all always made others laugh and was a hero to many, the plushies were interviewed by various media and events over the years, including an appearance on Geraldo Rivera, where God said that he was initially really mad at his father for killing Jeff. But now he understands that he would have done the same thing if he were in his father's shoes. And when asked if he thought his father was guilty, Jody replied, what he did was murder but being guilty, I don't think he should spend any time for that. Eventually, God would write a book about his life and the events surrounding Jeff Doucet titled Why Gary, why, which is the closest thing Mike Barnett yelled when he tackled Gary at the airport. And in the book description, it says through his own incredible story of using his past for good by helping others. He shares how any reader who has suffered great trauma can move on and not let the past define him or her. And I will say in the inner the interviews with him that I watched like He really seems to have healed and is like, again, turning his life into advocacy, inspiration for others and advocacy for others. Yeah. He wrote this book in the hope that other parents could avoid similar circumstances from happening with their children. He would go on to work with survivors counseling centers, and in an interview told people that his mother had often spoken to him as a child about child molesters. Like you know, staying away from yours weird man. Yes. But he says that she taught him as do many people to be suspicious of all the wrong people. And this I'm going to kind of like wrap up on a quote that Jodie says like, this is the message he wants to get out. Which is that's not how it works. The dirty old man in the park, everyone is taught to say no to strangers. Not many people are taught to say no to the people they trust. And that is the story of Gary push a and the murder of Jeff Doucet. Wow Yeah And just one other quick note in the media because right around this time was a similar kind of like revenge killing case you know quote unquote revenge because we already talked about it, but it was often care compared to the Bernard gets subway killer. Yeah, I was thought of that right around the same time. You know, suppose Deadly enacting revenge, of course, in that case, it was not accurate. Right. Okay. So that's the story. Wow. Well, great job. Thank you. I feel like that sounds slightly familiar now that I've heard the story, but that's true. I mean, not, you know, none of this. And I don't think I think this is clear from the way you reported it. I none of this is discounting what Gary did. Or not Gary. Jeff, what Jeff did? Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's tricky because it doesn't give another person the right to pray and it doesn't give somebody die. rocess. Yeah, either. Like, at the point that Gary push a kill Jeff to set by all the articles I read, all he had to go off of was Mike Barnett, telling him what Jeff Doucet had said, Yeah, but you know, it. In many other cases, that information could have been wildly inaccurate, it could have been totally untrue. It could have been a false confession. Again, I am not defending Jeff Doucet. I'm just kind of pointing out that it it's, it is tricky to try to justify any sort of actions that Gary push a took. But I do understand them. Right, I understand the emotion behind them. I understand the desire and need to protect your family and to. And I mean, I can, I can't I'm not a parent, I can't even imagine. But you know, thinking about my close family members, if I found out something like that had happened to one of them. I could imagine the melange of emotional Yeah, like, things that would go through my mind and the and the feelings I'd have. But yeah, you can't enact the same types of actions and violence towards other people that you rate our clients towards the people that you love, you know, right. That's why in theory, we have a justice system, because it's designed to do that, for us in a fair and equitable way, in theory, but we know there are lots of problems with that. Right. And on that topic, I feel like if the justice system was different, yeah, and I could agree that he shouldn't serve jail time. And there should be rehabilitation for him, because clearly, he's got other types of issues. Yeah, if this is how his mind connects things, and he's able to justify what he does, and reconcile that in order to even do all of this. Right. But that's not the justice system we have right now. Yeah, I would argue, in my opinion, I could understand people wanting to serve time. Yeah. You know, and I mean, the other part of that is, Jody, who has experienced this, at least a year long trauma, would then have to go through all of the trial process, which is just, you know, extending the trauma. So I do get Gary pushes motive, even if I don't necessarily agree with it, right? Well, I didn't watch the episode. So you're gonna have to tell me your ratings for lock, watchability, and how it dealt with the themes. I think watchability wise, it was definitely a bit. Season Four is off to a better start. For sure. I'm going to give it other than I'm gonna give it a b minus. Okay, I'm gonna give it a b minus and I would have given it a higher rating other than I don't think that the queer storyline was necessary. Yeah. And I think it was insensitive, and I appreciate the the motive behind it and how they dealt with it and how everyone thought it was egregious and terrible. Yeah, I still thought it's a dangerous narrative to put out there that the it's like movies like The Crying Game, you know, like, right, the the gay panic, right. Yeah. So I don't love that. But other than that, I thought it was pretty good. So you let me know next week? I thought about that part. And what about how it dealt with the inspiration? Well, I didn't see it. So Oh, yeah. I think I mean, for me, it sounds like they they carry carry pretty closely. Yeah, it definitely is very parallel. Like as he works. As I said at the beginning, I didn't watch the episode, but as you were telling me the story, I was like, oh, yeah, there it is. Oh, yeah. There's I write down on a phone booth and like the phone and stuff. Yeah, yeah. So I think it did. Hold pretty closely. So I would give it a B. Yeah. Well, great. Great. What first episode we did it. We sure Dad Look at us. I'm excited. Look at it. I'm excited. To see what happens the rest of this season. I know I'm excited to see a neat a Van Buren. I'm excited to see that new ADA food. Yeah, they're they're, they're, you know, they're diversifying the cast a little bit, which I think was much needed at this time. Well, it's funny, I think I read something that said like part of the recasting was like, intentionally casting some of these characters as women because they wanted to draw in more women viewers. And when you think about it, Dr. Olivet is literally the only woman recurring character for the first three seasons, I think, Oh, yeah. And she even she doesn't get even build until like late season two. Yeah, yeah. Hey, y'all. Did you know that for $0 a month? Yes, zero, you can help support our podcast by simply rating and reviewing on whatever platform you're currently using to listen to this episode. Yeah, and if you could just tell one person that they should listen to our podcast, that would be awesome. Because word of mouth is really big for helping podcasts grow, you could have 100 people in a room. 99 Just need one, you just need one. And we love connecting with our listeners. So feel free to send us an email at ripped headlines pod@gmail.com. And you can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at ripped headlines. Yeah, and don't forget to check out our website ripped headlines pod calm, you will find the link to our Patreon there. And that has some really fun stuff. And you get the joy and personal fulfillment of supporting one of your favorite podcasts. And also a percentage of our Patreon proceeds get donated to the Equal Justice Initiative. So by supporting us, you're also supporting positive change in the world. Yes, and if you want you can buy us a coffee at buy me a coffee.com/nmap. And we want to shout out our newest Patreon member. David, thank you so much. Yay, David. Thank you. And thanks so much for listening to it from the headlines where you get the facts and some fiction and we'll see you next week. Until then stay out of the headlines. Bye bye