Hey Headliners! We will be taking a short break after this weeks episode and will return with a brand new episode on Thursday June 23rd! Chat with us on social media in the meantime - If you're looking for more content, check out our Patreon!
This week Matt recaps S04 E09 of Law and Order, Born Bad, which has some of his "favorite" things to watch: bad child actors! (Maybe that's where the title actually comes from?!) Since this one wasn't directly inspired by a true crime, Enn tells us the tale of Elizabeth Báthory, also known as The Blood Countess! Was this one of the most prolific female killers of all time or a massive conspiracy and frame job?
Hey Headliners! We will be taking a short break after this weeks episode and will return with a brand new episode on Thursday June 23rd! Chat with us on social media in the meantime - If you're looking for more content, check out our Patreon!
This week Matt recaps S04 E09 of Law and Order, Born Bad, which has some of his "favorite" things to watch: bad child actors! (Maybe that's where the title actually comes from?!) Since this one wasn't directly inspired by a true crime, Enn tells us the tale of Elizabeth Báthory, also known as The Blood Countess! Was this one of the most prolific female killers of all time or a massive conspiracy and frame job?
In this true crime law and order podcast, the episodes are presented by two separate yet equally ridiculous individuals. One who researches the actual crime and the other who recaps the episode. These are their stories. This is it. This is us. This is you don't watch this as us right because you don't want to cry. I watched I watched the first couple of seasons I think. I think I got to the point where we finally found out that he The reason his the dad isn't in the present day timeline is because he died in a car accident. He died in a fire because of a defective crock pot that they got from a yard sale. You know, what I'm thinking of is he had a drinking problem. And there was a whole like season where we were kind of led to believe He died in a car accident. Oh, yeah, we were all wondering how it ended. Yes, for a while so I don't think I ever got death by crock pot is kind of a terrible way to go. You know, it's funny. I heard that when that happened. Crock Pot had to like release a statement being like our products are safe. Oh, funny, because it was like such a thing. Like people started to wonder if this could happen. Oh, yeah. I just was faulty. It was like old from a yard sale. You know what I mean? I will I have two stories. One is I think the most common cause of house fires is not cleaning out the lint trap of your dryer. Oh, I've heard that. And then the second thing is, when I was a kid, we had a toaster that the lead wire was like where it met this sort of plug part of it was like a little bit loose or like disconnected just slightly. And I like how it plugged in and accidentally touched it once and like a spark, like shocked me and like a spark came out. And I was like, Oh God, if I'm out, am I about to catch the house on fire using the Jester? Speaking of house fires? Yes. When I was younger, my grandmother, my grandmother, my grandmother and grandfather lived downstairs for most of my whole life. Okay, and my grandmother was I'll never forget it. She was a little bit absent minded sometimes. Or she, you know, she was she did things her own way, let's say the one who saw the ghost. She is no that's my other grandmother. That's my maternal grandmother. Okay. So my grandmother one day I came home from school, I remember I'll never forget it. And I walk in the front door, and there was smoke billowing from like their door into like stairwell stairwell and I was like, What is going on? So I opened the door. My grandpa is sitting on the couch, and he's like, What do you do in you're trying to kill me and my grandma and there's smoke everywhere. My grandma's like I don't know where it's coming from. And so I went into the kitchen, there was smoke everywhere. There was it was billowing out of a microwave. It had gotten so hot inside the microwave, that it melted the door like the plastic part of the door, and there was a hole in the door and smoke was pouring out of the hole of the microwave. That's how hot it got. Oh my gosh, she had put a wet TV Guide and the microwave to dry it off. Oh my god, and she thought she put it on for one minute. She put it on for 10 minutes and walked away. A wet TV Guide in the microwave. Like I don't even know if I could even and I remember I opened the microwave. I saw like the TV Guide and it wasn't on fire. It was just like black and smoking. Yeah, I picked it up with tongs I ran outside it threw it in the driveway and the second I hit the ground and burst into flames. Like a fireball. Oh my god thank God he threw it on the driveway. I well I was like let me get this thing out of the house because it was smoking everything up. I mean, I don't know what came up for me I'm not always the most resource. I guess I'm pretty resourceful but that was something came over me in that moment. That may be very, very good in a pinch that just tells me I'm good in a extreme circumstance emergency situations. I told you about the time I lit my kitchen on fire right? Maybe again, so I tacos are my favorite food. And almost always i The tortillas I use I just like warm up a corn tortilla like on a grill pan or in the oven or something. But for some reason, one day I was like I want to fry a tortilla shell. So I like did that and what like went and sat in the living room and was eating my tacos and I and all of a sudden out of the corner of my eye I see kind of like a bright flashing light and I'm like, that's weird. I wonder like that maybe the neighbors are Dude, like, I don't know, maybe there's construction lights or something happening, okay, and I turn around and there is like no exaggeration, probably like six foot high flames coming out of the pan in the kitchen that I had used the, to fry the tortilla shell, it turns out I had forgotten to turn the heat off of the oil, and it caught fire. And I, I everything was fine. Generally, I had to call the fire department they came out and like, put in some industrial fans to like get all the smoke out and all that. But I had failed. I was so frozen with what to do, like, part of me was like the house was filling with smoke. So I was like, I need to get out of the house. But I was also like, but I also need to call 911 And then I was like but I also have like the fire extinguisher that I should get in use and I literally kind of went between those three things of like leaving getting my phone and fire extinguisher several times before I was like I just need to get out and call the fire department so I got out in a call the fire department and by the time they arrived for the fire was out actually it just like burned itself out but I definitely the house had the stove and above it was the microwave. Melted the microwave. And definitely there were some scorch stains on the cabinets around the oven but everything everything cleaned off and the literally the only damage that I ended up having to fix and replace was the mic replacing the microwave? That's so funny because I actually remember that microwave and microwave not working anymore. And I remember I think you told me it was from a fire like a kitchen fire but I don't think I got the full story all this is to say I really love this is the series finale is next week. So by the time this episode airs, the series finale of this has also be happening. You know, it's so funny is I I stopped watching it several seasons ago and I think it was just like we got current and then by the time it came back I it kind of like fell off my radar. Yeah, but just the other day, I saw something about like the next episodes or the new episodes. And I was like that show was still on like I thought it ended a couple years ago. Oh no, it's I love that show. I know a few people who were like, I couldn't watch it anymore, because it was just too emotional. I love a crying show. You know? Is it still like as good as the beginning? I think there are sometimes episodes that aren't quite like I feel like the first few seasons. Every episode was like a hit like yeah, like all bops no skips. Yeah. And then I think the last few seasons, you have an episode here and there where you're like, oh, because of what they do is they do a lot of in the later seasons exploring some of the like, lesser known characters or like less awkward characters and stuff. Yeah. And they really go they're going into the future a lot more now, like to the three main characters, kids, you know what I mean? And it's all leading up to basically Mandy Moore's character dying. Right? And so it's like, a lot of flash forward to that moment, and who is going to be there and all that. So I think there's moments where it's not quite as like, compelling. Yeah, but I think the storytelling stays really good. I think that stays consistent. I feel like they must have had a plan from the start. For the ending. It doesn't feel like last where they just were like, well, let's see how many sessions we could do and how much we could add in here till people don't like it anymore. Yeah. So I think it's really coming together. I still cry almost every episode at some point. So yeah, it's one of those shows. That's like parenthood and brothers. To me, you know, Oh, I love that show, too. I feel like they all exist in the same world, you know? Yeah. Anyway, love the love that show? Well, I don't have any new items for us to discuss this week. Before we get started. I have just two recommendations. Okay. One is I watched we, we were at a friend's house and they were watching like an episode of a show that I had on my Netflix list for a zillion years. And just from watching like 15 minutes of it with her. I was like, Okay, we're gonna debut was like we're watching this. It's called anatomy of a scandal. Oh, I've seen that. But I've never watched it. It was great. It's very easy to watch. I mean, okay, I will give a disclaimer, when I say it's very easy to watch. I mean, it's very binge worthy type show, and I think it's only six or seven episodes total, like ever. Yeah, it's one of them straight shots based on a book. And I think I heard or David looked up afterwards that they might make some sort of anthology series out of it because I think the book has, the author has other books that they might end up with doing because it was it was very successful. Gotcha. It was great. And I just want to give a disclaimer if you are going to watch it anyone out there trigger warning about sexual assault. If you have any sort of adverse reaction to seeing reenactments or portrayals of sexual assault on TV, don't watch it. I would say don't watch it or watch with caution. Yeah. But it's not gratuitous. It's very about a scandal. It's very like a court case and flashbacks and retelling isn't all that, but they do show some pretty direct depictions of the sexual assault in question. I just saw that Michelle Dockery from Downton Abbey is on it. And that's her thing. I watched the whole thing. And I was like, she looks so familiar. And when we finished I was like, oh my god, it's effing Mary. Yeah. Did you ever watch godless? No, it's a Western show that she's kind of one of the main characters on and she does, you know, like a western United States accent and it was so jarring to sort of do that type of accent, but I think godless. I started watching it. And then for some reason, I stopped and was like, it's, you know, when you are like two or three episodes into something, and you don't really know enough to pick back up, right? Are all like are going to start over? Yeah. That's kind of where I was with it. But I think it's supposed to be really good. I've heard great things about it. I've just never seen it. Okay. And then my last recommendation is a documentary that everyone at work was talking about, so I had to watch it. It just came out recently. It's called our father. Have you heard of it? No. It's also on Netflix. And it is about Dr. Klein. I forget his first name. I might be Robert. Anyway, he was a fertility doctor. Oh, uh huh. Donald Klein, Dr. Donald Klein. And he ended up using his own sperm to impregnate women for a very long time. And they all found out because a few people got 23andme results. And found out they had all these half siblings and started to put the pieces together and started to ask their parents and the parents never knew. Some of the parents thought they were being impregnated with their spouse to sperm, not even like a donor. Oh, some of them thought, Oh, I'm just going to a fertility clinic because he was like the guy to go to for a long time. And he is it's a I won't, I won't give it away. But it's a it's a chilling tale and the number of people that find out about it, it is still growing. And it is insane how many people and it's like he was in the other room masturbating to get the sperm that he would then go into the other room to this, like, to the victims of these of this crime. And they'd be like, Okay, here's the donor sperm, and then put it in there. And they're like, they feel like they've been assaulted. Yeah, you don't I mean, they didn't consent to that at all right. And he was in the other room doing that, like a room away from them, and then put it like, what is there's not much of a difference now. So definitely recommend that one that was wild. I watched that. It's that's reminding me of some story. where the guy was like giving taking people's babies and like selling them out the bound or do you remember that one? I don't you know, what's funny is I just Googled Hulu, documentaries, baby doctor, because I remember watching it on Hulu, and it was called taking birth and it was a doctor who illegally sold over 200 babies. Yikes. What is? Yeah, What world are we living in? Anyway, well, shall we get into the episode? Yeah. Should we give the disclaimer about our little break first? Oh, yes. Okay. So we're going to be on a little break because I have to take a couple of weeks off from recording. And we will be back. This is going to be our last episode for a couple weeks. We will be back on June 23 23rd. Yes. All right. So stay tuned. Don't Don't be alarmed. Yes, we'll be back. And hey, if you are missing our episodes, in the meantime, you could go sign up for our Patreon because we've got SVU recaps on there and a bunch of other fun stuff. Yeah, we have a lot of episodes up there. Lots of fun content. The last SVU episode we did I covered the story of Matthew Shepard. So check it out. We've got a lot of a lot of great things on there. And if you want to know what's on our Patreon, check out our website ripped headlines. pod.com. And I have, you know, a good overview of what you can expect on our Patreon up there. Yeah. Speaking of what you can expect, are you ready? For the episode? Yes. And I feel like I should confess my sin that I realized I research. I'm the researcher for this one. And I spent a lot of time researching, and was like, and by and when I finished, I was like, Okay, I'm done. And so that told my brain that I was done preparing and so I forgot to watch the episode. I have to say, I am at an advantage in that way, because I've done that many times when I'm the researcher. But because I'm three hours ahead of you. Oh, yeah, I usually have time in the morning to just watch the episode by the time you start recording for your record early, so I have a little bit of an advantage on you unless you want to wake up at 6am. Nope. Thanks. All right. Well, this episode was called born bad. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right, season four episode, episode, Episode Nine of law and order. And we begin at night in an area where there's a bunch of sex workers who are outside, in a neighborhood full of activity, people cars everywhere, hustle and bustle and hustle and bustle. And they're trying to make it look like sort of a seedy neighborhood, you know? Yeah. Meanwhile, there's a man in a clergy caller, who we learned is named Father Jack. And he's walking around handing out pamphlets for his organization called Midnight, Midnight house, he actually has a shelter and a soup kitchen in the area. So he's just telling everybody, Hey, if you want some ways to go after this, and it seems like everybody seems to know him and is friendly with him. He's not like other priests. He's a priest. He eventually comes across a man who's laying down in like, against a wall. And it turns out, he's not just laying there. He's dead. And he's not a man at all. He's very young. Logan and Briscoe are showing up on the next scene. Police sir, they're investigating and we find out that the boy has been beaten to death. And all they find on him in terms of identification is a bus pass like a student bus pass pass. Unusually for someone who they expect to be sort of destitute, he has expensive and Nike Air Max sneakers on. Hmm. All right, so the opening credit to begin, I had a bit of time, so I decided to test out my typing skills. Okay, so I popped in my CD for Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing. And I transcribed all the lyrics to Atlantis, Morissette, Jagged Little Pill album. And when I finished, it was time for the episode. Mavis Beacon is truly a name that I have not heard in probably 25 years. I mean, Was she an icon or what? Yeah. So we come back to the episode and Logan is questioning one of the girls who we saw out that night, and I'm going to try to do an impression of how she reacts because what a stellar actress this this woman was. She says, I don't know him. I seen him. I don't even know him. She sits down. She's at the soup kitchen. She puts a piece of bread in her mouth, takes a bite and takes the bite of bread out of her mouth and puts it on the plate. What why? What kind of choices were being made here. That is so weird, US bizarre thing. So she continues to say she doesn't know the guy who was killed and she's not intimidated anyway, so they're barking up the wrong tree. Then a queer sex worker walks over and they sit down and they say that they know everybody and they do not know this boy. So if he was new to the scene, he probably works for someone named Mr. Clyde. Okay, they go to a K bar, which law and order decided to style as like the seediest place in the whole world. Well, you know, have you ever seen the accused? Jodie Foster? No, it's like the bar from that but a more. You've seen Star Wars? Uh, yeah, it's the most Eisley Cantina without the aliens. Okay. It is like smoke everywhere. There's this weird dystopian New Wave music playing. You see the hips of a dancer on stage and like cut off shorts. The bartender looks like he killed somebody. Like you know every gay bar I've been to. Of course, you Briscoes Don't touch anything. Okay, God, they go into the back room. And they talk to this Mr. Clyde who runs the bar, and he's a real sleazeball type character. And they rough them up a little and threaten him with child prostitution charges. If he doesn't tell everyone if he doesn't tell them like who this kid was because they assume he must work there. And they assume that this guy hires minors to dance. And he says he doesn't do that. And he doesn't know the guys. So back off. In the next scene, we're with the M E. And she reveals that the boy is 13 to 14 years old. way younger than I even expected. You don't really get a good look at him in the episodes so you don't really know. Okay? He had cracked ribs, a ruptured lung, and a ruptured spleen, but no signs of sexual activity whatsoever. And Briscoe says, What about his wounds? Anything kinky? Briscoe is a little too interested in this angle. If you asked me honestly, maybe he's got a secret. Oh, yeah. So nothing kinky. And another detail that which suggests that he wasn't from that neighborhood was that in his stomach. He had a full meal of string beans, meat and potatoes and milk. So he wasn't at the soup kitchen eating what they were eating because they only serve sandwiches and bread that you put in your mouth and take back out. I feel like that's a detail they've given us in a previous episode. Like they were like, oh, you know, they she's got carrots. And I feel like that was an SVU episode. Yeah, I feel like it has been before too. But you know what I feel like in some of the cases we've researched. I've heard that too. Hmm. Interesting, like undigested food being found. And then that's how they know or you know what that reminds me of? JonBenet. They found undigested food in her and that's how they knew the time of death. Yeah, or part of the time of death? I think it's been in a previous episode we've covered before. Yeah, right. Yeah. So no one has reported this person missing. And since he's around 14 years old, they would expect parents to be looking for him unless he was a runaway. And so they're wondering, and they don't find anyone in the runaway like database to match this kid. So they're thinking maybe the parents of the kid are actually responsible. So Lieutenant Van Buren suggests that they start checking junior high schools in the district and and look where his bus pass works and go from there. So they show up at a busy Middle School. And it's so busy that as usual, the teacher their questioning has no time to talk. So they're like chasing her through a hallway, ask her questions. Always, always like, hello. I mean, if a cop came to me at my job, no matter how busy it was, I feel like crap. I better go serious. It's a murder. And we're talking about that's like, whenever they're in a hospital, and they're like chasing the hottest doctor while they're doing their rounds. And the doctors like sticking needles and people in, you know, cutting people open. And as he's running around, or the nurse at the charge station is answering six phones with seven. Yes. So she says that the teacher they're talking to I think is the principal. She says that they have 2000 students plus and ask someone who deals with the kids more individually. So they go to speak to the guidance counselor. And she IDs the kid pretty quickly as John Lasky. And she says that he had a mouse like the Grand Canyon. What does that mean? He was mouthy. Oh, okay, like it was always okay. All right. She says though, that she liked him. He was kind of a funny kid. And he was a regular of hers. He was a transfer student from last year. And the parents. She gives off the vibe that they're not on the up and up. So she gives them the last known address, and they show up at the apartment of a man named Zack more when the scene starts. They're in the apartment ready talking to Zach. And they're talking to him through a piece of furniture like through the shelving unit. As you do, yeah. Zach looks like Smeagol and Iggy Pop had a baby. And he's like quite a look. Oh, it's they're really laying it on thick with this guy. He's the real like dirtbag kind of guy, you know? And he says, When they asked him about the kid, his first line is the bitch moved out. Charming. Yeah, so evidently his ex girlfriend Tory has moved out of the apartment and left him with the bills. And she had a brat as a kid who drove them both crazy. While they're talking to this guy, an extra from a Whitesnake video slinks down a ladder in the background. Is it windy or safe? Oh, slinking down the stairs. She wishes she was windy. And she says what's going on? And he's like, Oh, we got company and she goes, I gotta go pee. Okay. What was the point? Oh, then he says that his ex was strung out on drugs. And she did so all because she had a wild kid that she was raising. And he blames the kid for the like, end of their relationship, basically. And he says, now he's stuck with her bills, and he's too busy to care because he's in the band. Okay. He says, If you want to look for her, she might be in a rehab. Wow. So they go find her. She is in a facility. And she says that child welfare took her son away. She's obviously very emotional. And Logan says to her, maybe they were afraid you'd stick a needle in his arm and on accident. Delightful. She is set. She says that she's trying to get clean because she wants to get him back, which she now knows she can't because he's unfortunately deceased. And she breaks down and she's very upset. So they move on. They go to Child Protective Services. And they speak to a caseworker that says that Johnny, the victim has had six caseworkers in the last 10 years. And the last time she saw him, he was beaten up pretty badly. And it was by his allegedly by Tori, his mom's boyfriend, Zach, who we spoke to earlier. He is in the band. She hands over the info for the foster parents that Johnny was last with. Because when he went missing, he was with foster parents. He wasn't living with Zach and Tori. So she says, You're not gonna find anything there though. Because this foster mom is terrific. Like there's a lot of bad ones in the system. This one is like great. So yeah, they're like, all right. So they go to speak to the foster mother in question. And she appears to be this like sweet little lady who never lets her kids go out alone. I looked her up. She is played by a woman named Helen Gallagher. And Helen Gallagher has three Emmys and two Tony Awards. Wow, get it girl. She got in the episode. She was very good in the episode. She I think her Emmys were all from a TV show called Ryan's Hope, which was big back in the day. And, you know, she's still a working actress. She has been in some recent things even so, hey, she says that sometimes the kids that she takes in do go missing. Because you know, she doesn't let them go out alone. But when they go out and groups, it's always possible that one of them will be a run away. But usually what happens is they run away to go back to their like biological parents or whoever they were with last. They see that nothing has changed. And then they end up back with her and they never leave again. So she it had only been a day or two. She thought Johnny was just doing this. Yeah. And she didn't let him go alone. Last time she was out last time he was out of her sight. He went to the movies with two of her other boys. So she watched his name's Chris and Andy. So when they came home from the movies, they told her that he just took off like they were on the way to the movies. And he just took off and they chased him and he was gone. So she doesn't know what happens. But she's very, very upset. They go to check with these two boys named Chris and Andy. And they're like, 14, also, they're very young. And one of the kids that voice has cracked as he's talking. And I'm 100% Positive. The director was like, Ooh, keep that in. Yeah, show how young these kids are. They tell the same thing like he ran away, but it's probably unlikely he would have gone back to his old place because according to them, she told the two boys that the mom's ex boyfriend used to beat him up basically. So they're like, I don't know where you were would have went but that would be not their guests. So they go back to Zack, back to Zack, Zack Attack, and they go talk to him in the station. They haven't been questioning and they're like, you know, giving them a rough time. But he says that he never hit Johnny, which we know is untrue. And he says that it doesn't matter because the day in question. He was at a gig in New Jersey. And they're like, yeah, right, A likely story. But then Lieutenant Van Buren like knocks on the window and tells him to come out because the alibi checks out. He had a gig in Bayonne, New Jersey. So she suggests that since this alibi checked out, they should go talk to his girlfriend, the Whitesnake extra who had to pee before because she's been living in that house with him, allegedly, and maybe she could confirm how long he was out at that gig. So they go to her at the apartment at the apartment. I'm sorry, they go to her at her job. She works at a diner, and she is also can't be bothered. She liked cleaning bussing tables, but they get rid of stop for a moment and she confirms that. Yes, he did have a gig that night. They noticed that she has some bruises on her arms and they say like hey, does he beat you up basically. And she gets a little emotional and she finally He says, Okay, I'll tell you what I know. Johnny, the boy did show up that night she believes because she heard it key jangling in the lock. And Johnny had a key, but he couldn't get in. And she says that when she opened the door like they kind of, there were two boys at least, and they like bolted. And it was dark, but she thinks it was Johnny because he had showed up at their house. Weeks before. And they know it was him. They weren't home, but they know he like entered their house when they were in there the apartment, because it was not a breaking and entering, someone got in with a key and he's the only one that had a key. They've had the locks changed since then. So that's why he couldn't get in this time. And the reason they had the locks changed was because whenever he came in last time, he stole a bunch of Zach's like music equipment, and they never got it back. So kind of a convoluted story. But that's, that's what we're where we're going. Got it. So they're like, We wonder why he came back. And if he did come back, she just said there were multiple kids. So they no longer believe the two boys they spoke to was that he just bolted that night. So they go back and they have Chris and Andy the two boys in questioning now. And they tell Chris, the first one who has sort of like, you know, bad boy hair. They asked him to tell the truth. They know he was lying about Johnny leaving alone. And all of a sudden, Chris has developed a very strange, unusual accent. It's cross between like 90s like street slang and Oliver Twist run away. Can I ask them all? It's like, very, like, very strange. And as they're asking you for more information, he tells the cops Logan and Briscoe to blow it out your butt. Great. Yeah. And they're shocked. So meanwhile, the other boy Andy is with Lieutenant Van Buren. And they kind of trick him and scare him into telling the truth. And they keep him as cooperative. So they call his foster mom and and she comes down. And they take his statement with her permission. And essentially, he says that Johnny was trying to save money for an apartment so that he could get an apartment for him and his mom when she got out of rehab. And that was the motive behind when they first went to his old place and stole the equipment. But when they did that, the other brother who's had blowed out your butt, Chris. He kept all the money. He's he's sold the equipment and kept the money for himself and bought like shoes and stuff. Gotcha. Then he says that they went back again. And this time they couldn't get in the apartment. And they heard someone like coming towards them. So the three of them ran. And Johnny and Chris got into an argument about it. And Chris, like, went into a blind rage and started beating Johnny up. And when he was done, Chris was like shaking in. He looked like he was in some sort of trance state. So now we switch over to the order part of the episode, because we have a suspect. Okay, stone and Kincaid are talking to the potential defense attorney. And she begs for compassion. But stone has very little. And we learn she's like, Fine, we'll take it to the court and see what happens. But just so you know, the judge is judged blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we learned that that means that the judge is a previous advocate for children's rights. So judge bla bla bla, very strict, so she doesn't mess around judge blah, blah, blah has the kids at heart. So then Kincaid is in a scene talking to the foster mom and asking her for help. But she says that I'm not going to help you put one of my kids against one of the other kids because she feels horrible for what happened to Johnny. But Chris, his biological mom, he would shoot basically like pimping out to people as a kid. And after that he was at a facility for a year where he was like drugged out of his mind as a kid also, because he's only 14. So all of this happens in rapid succession. And then all of the for the former foster families he was with us to neglect him, so she's not going to punish him any further. He's been he's already been punished. Kincaid then goes to Chris's biological mom, who? She's a real peach. When they meet her, she is pregnant and smoking and drinking a beer all at the same time. They really hammered at home that she is a non mom reckless mom. Yes, exactly. She takes no responsibility for this. Of course, she says he's not my responsibility I gave him a long time ago. And concave starts to really feel for him, because she feels like he never had a chance. She takes back this sympathy for him to stone and shift and stone is like, sorry, like this is he's, uh, he murdered somebody, I don't care basically. And they're like, Okay, he has a previous offense that's been sealed. So maybe if we can get that previous offense opened up, we can see if it was a violent offense or not. Maybe we can decide whether we want to take this to family court rather than trying him as a adult. And so then there's an irrelevant scene where Kincaid meets an attorney for a beer and gets information about how to do that. Then we are in a pre trial hearing, where the defense attorney and the DHS team are meeting with Chris and the judge in a closed environment to sort of ask him some questions and get more details to see how we're going to try this case. And the defense has tried to paint him as an angel who has only had a few incidents, but they were all in high stress situations. But then stone gets the truth out of him that not only did he beat a kid up while he was had to do to juvenile facility, like really badly. He was in that juvenile facility for shooting a store owner when he got mad that there was no money in the register that he was trying to rob. Yikes. And that was years ago. So he was probably 12. So it comes to the judge who judge bla bla bla, decides that this is going to be a case they're going to try and he's going to be tried as an adult on Family Court. Kincaid then gets the word that the defense is changing their plea to not guilty by the reason of mental defect. And the reason is because they're going to pose that he was genetically predisposed to violent behavior, because he has the X Y, Y chromosome. And this is much to their chagrin, but the judge is going to allow it. So stone thinks that this is all sort of like pseudoscience, there's no proof that this extra chromosome is linked to dangerous behavior that was like a study done in like the 1970s. And there's no quantifiable research since then. So they have all of that interview Chris in the next scene, and he repeatedly uses the word stupid. He says that if someone lied about him, he'd probably beat the hell out of them. And he doesn't know how far he'd go. So all of that goes back to the to the TAs team and says he is aware that what he does is wrong. But there's a lot we don't know about the brain. But either way, he knows he was responsible, and he is responsible. So then we go to court, and we learned that Johnny was most likely conscious and screaming as he was being beaten to death. And the defense then uses that fact to explain that, well, if that's true, then my client was completely out of control, because who wouldn't stop in that kind of situation? Then all of it testifies on the stands that Chris knew the difference between right and wrong, and he has no diagnosed illness of any type. So you know, he should be responsible. Then the defense starts to talk to her about that X, Y, Y chromosome theory. And she says that it's pseudoscience at best. It's been dismissed since the early 70s. Then later, they have Chris his biological mom take the stand. And she says that from birth, Chris was different. And when he was four, he came after her with a knife for taking a toy away, and that his biological father and uncle are both in prison for violent offenses. One is for murder. Yikes. Yeah. They also got her to say some pretty nasty things about Chris on the stand. So now stone is starting to see like, Hmm, maybe this kid didn't have a chance. And maybe he really does feel like he's broken. You know what I mean? Yeah. The trial ends and like the jury is out to whatever to make their decision. And it's nighttime, and we get a scene of stone and the defense attorney at a bar. And they're kind of talking about the case. And she tries to cut a deal with stone for the kid. Because she, for whatever reason, stones like why are you trying to do this, like the case is basically over? It. This is very unusual timing. And she says, Listen, my client wants to have a sit down with the TAs team. I think it's bad idea, but he wants to so I have to let him in. He's like, alright, well, we'll talk to him. So the next day, there's a sit down, and it's with stone and the TAs team and hit the kid and his attorney. And the kid says that he just wants everything to be done with and he'll plead guilty and all of that. And his defense attorney says it's not a good idea. He loses his temper, and he says I'm unfixable. Why should I be out there? I just want to go to jail. I think I'm a freak and I'm screwed up. So just send me to jail. I don't care. At this point. Stone is feeling really bad about the whole ordeal. he'll he's thinking that the kid needs some sort of rehabilitation, that he won't get in jail. He doesn't want to take this deal. He doesn't know what to do. Schiff basically tells him like the just take the win, like this is what you wanted, and it's kind of too late. Yeah. So back into court, the defendant is presenting his new plea to the judge, and everyone is surprised, including trash, blah, blah, blah. And she says, like, Oh, are you sure you want to do this, like, usually a plea kind of gets you off to someone sending you to jail? And the kid says, you know, I'm broken, I'm ruined, I'm never gonna change. If this whole genetic thing is true, then what's the point? And then stone agrees to the deal. But he says that the kid will be held at a juvenile facility until he's 18. And then they'll send them to Attica, rather than sending them to add a canal. And the defendant, Chris says, What's the point? And then the episode ends. I was wondering if they were going to like if he was going to accept the plea deal, or whatever, and like go to prison, and then they'd find out like the test was incorrect in the first place or something. Wow. Well, great job. Thanks the punch. Are you ready to hear the story? Oh, no, no, I'm scared. Okay. Well, this episode was not based on a specific crime. Thank God. So I picked something. I wasn't really in the mood to like research a super like recent kind of emotionally challenging thing. Yeah. So I'm, I'm going back in history, a few 100 years to tell you the story of Elizabeth Bathory, who is known as The Blood Countess. Oh, have you ever heard of her? Know when you said Elizabeth, I was like, what were we doing? Was he born? Oh, imagine? Maybe in the future. I'll start by saying first of all, all of this happened in like the late 1500s, early 1600s. And so the it's difficult to separate fact from fiction. Some of the times in when you're like out there researching write her particularly. Yeah. And I'll kind of go into a little bit of why that is in the story. But I, like I said, I did a lot of research on this one, I actually bought and read an entire book on her and looked her up in like, history journals and things like that. So I will do my best to kind of tell you the story of her and point out the moments where it's like, everybody says this, but this is kind of, you know, indicating that sort of thing. Everybody knows. Is that a song? No. It's Phaedra Parks. Oh, got it. Okay, speaking of which, did you see that? There's the Real Housewives of Dubai is premiering soon. And Phaedra is in an episode of it. Really? Yeah, I was watching the whole thing. And I was like, and then suddenly, I was like, gosh, that woman's like facial expressions and voice sounds a lot like Phaedra. But why would she be on The Real Housewives of Dubai? And then I Googled it. And she for some reason is on an episode. Wow. I mean, I can't wait to see her and girls trip that's coming out in the end of June and I'm, have you seen the trailer for it? Yes, I'm dying for that. It looks bananas. I can't wait. Okay. So Elizabeth Bathory was born. Air cipet Bow three. This is all all of this took place in Hungary. Okay. And so the Hungarian version of her name is Aris Yvette. But I'm going to stick with Elizabeth. Okay. And she was a countess, and she was born on August 21 1560. And her family the batteries were a very wealthy and very powerful family, family family in Hungary. And one of the articles that I read, actually, several of the articles that I read, mentioned that the Bathory family was at times, like richer and more powerful than the like, Emperor. Okay. And so that the family at various times was like loaning money to the crown. And the crown was like, indebted to the family at various points, because they were so they owned a ton of land in Hungary. So the Elizabeth's father was named Baron. Well, Baron was his title. His name was George the sixth Bathory and her mother was Baroness Anna Bathory. And they were cousins. Okay, you know, that's, it's gonna it was the times. One other thing I will say is researching this family, but also just generally It It seems like people were not particularly creative with naming their children because everybody had the same fucking names. And so I wouldn't be like reading something and be like, Wait, which person are they talking about here? Because like, literally there are six different Stephen batteries. Oh, that's an enough is enough, enough enough? Use a little creativity people are there even like a pH instead of a V or anything? Well, so what added complexity was in addition to there being six Stephen batteries there. All a lot of the articles would switch between, like some of the articles would be Stephen bath Ray, and others would use the Hungarian Istvan. And so it's like even more confusion over who these people were. No, Steve. No, Steve that I found. All right. So the Bathory family was, as I said, very wealthy, very powerful. They had like a cardinal in the family. There were several princes. And Elizabeth was actually the niece of in addition to her dad being Stephen Bathory. She was also the niece of a Stephen Bathory who was the voivode of Transylvania, which is essentially kind of like the like the Prime Minister basically the the ruler, the voice vote of Transylvania. Isn't that a fun word? I really liked that. That is different game I would play I want to be voivode. Right. And her so her uncle, in addition to being voivode of Transylvania was also a prince, he was also the King of Poland, and Grand Duke of Lithuania. So very wealthy, very connected family. She was born on the family estate, which was known as x Zed, EC sed, which is in area of Hungary, kind of in the northeast corner of it, and for just a little bit of context, because I'm not good at geography. Hungary is a landlocked country, and it's kind of bordered by several other countries, obviously, since it's landlocked, like Romania and Ukraine, kind of to the east and west. So, the, because the batteries owned a lot of land, and they the laws at the time wore such that the nobility not only owned the land, but also owned the like peasantry of the people on those lands. So essentially, if you weren't nobility, you were probably enslaved to the nobility, and kind of like lived at their mercy. Okay. So, because their family was really wealthy, Elizabeth was given a really good education. She apparently spoke Latin, German, Hungarian and Greek, and whisk kind of noted as one of the most educated women of the time, and had a lot of different interests, including astronomy, botany, biology and anatomy, okay. Elizabeth, as a child suffered from epilepsy, which at the time was called Falling sickness. It caused her to have seizures and also caused her some head and eye pain in later life. And so this is all occurring in what's kind of called the Early Modern Era, or the Renaissance, which had been preceded by the Middle Ages. So medicine in this period of time was not obviously not as advanced as today. And there were kind of a lot of different treatments that we wouldn't use today, like bloodletting. You know, a lot of disease was seen as being connected to like your morals or your quality of character, right? Oh, my faith, gosh, or being a woman? Yes, exactly. There was a pretty intense fear of witches in witchcraft at this time. And one of the things that kind of contributed to that was, if there were medical practices being practiced, that were unfamiliar to people, often people were like, ooh, that's, you know, suspicious. That could be witchcraft kind of thing. All right. Oh, God. So, epilepsy, which Elizabeth had was thought to be caused by Poisonous vapors in the brain, or demonic possession, and treatment for it involved, taking the blood of a person who did not have epilepsy and rubbing it on the lips of the affected person, or having them consumed pieces of human skull. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh my god. So I'll kind of come back to that later. If you just kind of if you had this falling down, illness or whatever they called it, and you found out that the treatment was rubbing blood on your lips or eating skull. I feel like you never fall down. Yeah, honestly. So some unsubstantiated claims say that Elizabeth's father was a particularly cruel ruler and that Elizabeth learned cruelty at a very young age and learn that it was like normal and acceptable. And you know, the way to rule over people in the book, which, so the entire book that I read, when I first started reading it, I it appeared to be one of the best researched accounts of Elizabeth Bathory. And then, as I finished it, and kind of reflected on it, and read more things, I was like, this person jumped to a fuck ton of conclusions. So, in the book, she talks about how a lot of the sources describe the bath three estate that the where the family lived as like an insane asylum, and that each of them had their own various struggles with mental health, like they talk about her brother, like, waving a sword around and firing people who weren't there kind of stuff. So there was a lot of talk about their family being like cruel and also mentally unwell. And there was also a lot of rumors that Elizabeth was taught witchcraft as a child, and that her family worship Satan. And a lot of sources also talk about how Elizabeth was really connected to an aunt of hers named Clara. And like, literally every article or like book talks about how Clara taught her witchcraft and Clara was also bisexual, like, those things are always in the same sentence from course. Because obviously, you know, you're, you're a bad person, if you're bisexual, I'm sure. However, so despite all of those rumors about them, like worshipping Satan, and practicing witchcraft, all of their records show that the family was really devout Protestant, that she was raised a Calvinist and even though she was very devout in her Protestant faith, since she was so educated, she likely also like knew a lot about Catholicism and Lutheranism. Okay, and she did have an interest in folk medicine as well, because I said she was interested in anatomy and the human body and so also interested in medicine. So, in 1573, when she was 13, she was betrothed to a man named Frank, f e r e n, C, no dazi, who was a Hungarian nobleman, and also one of the really prominent families at the time. And their, their marriage was actually arranged when Elizabeth was like, as young as 10 years old, but then she had to be like of age to marry, which was 13. Actually, I think, sorry, 14, but they were engaged when she was 13. And she spent a lot of time with the NED dazi family at their home Castle of silvar, where she kind of like continued her education and also, like, learned the ways of that family. Because it was kind of common practice that like you, nobility would like go to other families, to other noble families to kind of like learn etiquette and that sort of thing. Like, they basically like swapped up swapped kids for education sort of thing. Okay. So she spent a lot of time with his family prior to their marriage. So they married in 1575, when she was 15. Oh, 15. Okay. And he was 19. I say that, like, that's a lot better. And what was interesting is in kind of a reversal of common practice, he actually adopted her family name, because her family was like, so well respected at the time, I was gonna say, probably was in his best interest. Oh, yeah, totally. But even though he did that, like she was often referred to as Countess nasty as well. So together, they had five children, whose names I just won't get into. And he was a respected military commander and was often away from home. The area was kind of not really super safe at the time, like there was a lot of threat of invasion from the Ottoman Empire. So there was like a lot of battles. It wasn't super safe to travel between cities or different areas, particularly on the areas bordered by the Ottoman Empire. So he was away from home pretty often, which meant that Elizabeth had to manage the estates and she kind of split her time they are viously they had a ton of property. So she kind of split her time among their various estates. Imagine the idea of owning multiple properties period, but then owning like multiple estates that are like have a castle and like tons of buildings and an entire town attached, it's just wild at 15 at 15. At 15, I was like, playing Nintendo, and playing with my action figures. Yeah, I fully. So she, as I said, very, very involved in the running of the estates. And there are a lot of letters that were written to and from her that were like preserved in archives, and the letters from her kind of indicate a pretty like deft hand at managing things like she was really involved in the running of the estate and, like knew, like the price of grain and like the amount the weight of a certain yield that was supposed to be like given to the estate and that kind of stuff shipped. So she was pretty competent at doing this despite being like 15 years old at the time. Her husband, as I mentioned, was a pretty well respected military guy, he was known as the Black Knight of Hungary. And a lot of the sources talk about how he was kind of noted for his creative treatment of Ottoman prisoners that they would capture. Again, a little bit of that is hard to verify. But it was a pretty commonly repeated thing that like he often won battles, he captured prisoners and then potentially tortured them, etc. Right. Okay. So I'm going to mention him a few different times throughout the story. But he eventually would die in battle in 1604, when Elizabeth was 44. And the What's interesting is that he died in battle, but he didn't die of battle wounds. He apparently had contracted some kind of illness that had caused him like severe leg pain and paralysis of some of his limbs. And he succumbed to that illness in the middle of battle, apparently. And a lot of the articles are like, it was probably some kind of like, STD, like he probably had syphilis or something like that. So upon his death, she would become the sole owner of all of their money and all of their properties. But prior to his death, pharynx would write a letter to a man named Yorkie Thoreau, and what kind of charge him with keeping a good eye on Elizabeth and like looking after her and his children. And we'll come back to him later on. So, as I mentioned, Elizabeth had an interest in medicine. And she learned a lot of it because a lot of her family was like Transylvanian royalty, she had learned a lot of medical practices through them, or through like Transylvanian knowledge of medicine, which a lot of the articles kind of talk about how those practices could have appeared very, like foreign and unfamiliar to Hungarians. And oftentimes, if those things like didn't work to cure the illness, or save the person's life, or whatever, it was kind of, like attributed to like you're practicing this weird kind of medicine that is suspicious and wasn't wouldn't really work kind of thing. So kind of suspicion around those sorts of medical practices, which I imagine you know, the same thing would be true if somebody practicing various tactics from Hungarian medicine went to Transylvania, they would probably be like, well, that's really weird that you're putting leeches on this person or whatever. Yeah, I have a confession. Yes. I didn't know Transylvania was a real place. I thought it was just like a fictional thing for like, vampire lore Dracula. Yeah. Wow. Well, I I'm actually curious what country it is now. historical region. It's now Romania. Oh, wow. Hey, listen, learn something new every day. Yeah. So out all of her different estates, Elizabeth had people who were kind of trained in health and medicine to care for the residents of the area. And at the castle of silvar were was kind of like the castle home of her husband's family. She had hired a Croatian midwife named Anna Durva. Alia and again, she would practice medicine that was somewhat unfamiliar to folks of the area, and in what's kind of like a notable exception. Other times, is that Anna would sometimes perform surgery, and that at the time was pretty much only practiced by men. And so she hired. Yes. Okay. And so people were very suspicious of that. And, like rumors would circulate about her that she was like a cruel status to practice to black magic and tortured people. In a lot of the, like letters at the time and kind of accounts of her she's described at as an executioner as an evil woman. And one of them refers to her as a wild beast in female form. Wow. Yeah. In the late 1500s, at the castle, a young servant girl died. And when the pastor is fun, Magliari was summoned to kind of, you know, take the body and bury it. He reported that when he arrived at the castle, the girl's body had already been placed inside of a coffin and nailed shut, and he was like, that's weird. Typically, the the body would be laid out, and then it would be he would arrive, it would be placed in a coffin, and he would take it for burial. So it was apparently strange that it had already happened before he arrived. And it was nailed shut. Yes. Wow. Which, you know, it's not like they had closing lids with latches on the coffin. So I think, ultimately would have been able to do it anyway. But the Countess when he questioned her about that, Elizabeth told him that there they were experiencing a small outbreak of cholera in the castle. And they had placed her body in the coffin quickly, because they didn't want to alarm any of the villagers and kind of create panic over an outbreak of cholera. A short time later, the pastor was summoned again, and was presented with another coffin that was also nailed shut. And he was told, and it was a little larger than usual. And he was told that there were three girls bodies inside. And Reportedly, the pastor questioned Elizabeth about this. And she clarified there's only two bodies, and he was like, but still why, like, why are there two bodies in here? And why are people dying? She explained that one had died, and the other was near death when that other girl had died. And then she also died. And so they didn't, she didn't want again to like cause panic among the villagers about a outbreak of disease. And so she didn't want like multiple caskets coming out of the castle at the same time. So she had placed them both in one casket. That is not a great excuse. I'm sorry. It's not great. No. And we'll kind of see what what comes with that later. So he stated that, in some of the accounts, it is said that a member of Elizabeth staff like cautioned him not to question Elizabeth any further about this goings on, saying that like it would go really badly for the servants, if he like pressed too hard about this, like it would make her angry. And somehow the servants of the castle would suffer because of that anchor, who was told that the pastor who had come to collect the bodies, okay. So, a few years prior to her husband's death, the rumors and gossip that surrounded Elizabeth started to pick up more speed, because it more servant girls and women appeared to die at the estates. Again, here's where I will distinguish between rumor and fact. Then there's no like accounting of it. And so it's all based on kind of like people saying that this happened, if that makes sense. But the kind of like, scuttlebutt was that more women were dying under her care. And so rumors started to kind of like pick up speed about her torturing young girls and torturing them and murdering them. So a Lutheran pastor, pastor named pianos ponic canoes, I, I'm trying, he wrote a letter to Georg E. Thoreau, which remember, he is the guy who faring would ultimately prior to his death, tell him like look after Elizabeth. So this pastor wrote to that guy, and in that letter described Elizabeth as a wicked woman, and claimed that she could turn herself into a black cat and that black cat was stalking him at night. Okay, so this is Harry Potter. Yes. So the Lutheran minister Is Fun McGarry the one who had come to collect the bodies and was like why are they coffins? Why are they in these coffins already? He started to get concerned about all of these rumors about Elizabeth and apparently the like peasantry though like common folk at the time, were kind of complaining to him and like being like you have to do something like girls are dying in her care at her castle. And so he Oh, sorry, in a letter to him, of somebody complaining about Elizabeth. It read it is feared that the Lord God will punish us along with you. Either Let us all go and get away from here. Or you good Mr. Istvan, the pastor, since you are a man of the church and would otherwise be guilty, you must warn her if she does not stop you, then you must announce her deeds from the pulpit because it offends the Lord God and he will not tolerate it. So people were like telling the pastor, you have to tell her to stop doing whatever it is she's doing. So this was someone just from, like the area area who was concerned because and what was that? They were? Weren't they going on about like letting us leave here? Like what kind of has to do about that? So I again, because people were like, owned? Oh, okay. I forgot. I think it was sort of like find us a way out of here because she's killing people and we don't want to die. We're powerless. So it's fun Maggiore, the pastor would start to kind of accuse Elizabeth of various misdeeds in private and in public at a church service where she was in attendance and he was at the pulpit. A noble man who was in attendance at that session, wrote a letter to his wife saying the service that morning was unusual. Pastor McGarry told the congregation in order for me to remain at the pulpit, I must disclose something of the utmost importance to you. And it the letter says the congregation itself are made up of nubile servants and towns people had all heard the rumors by now the gossip had spread that yet another girl died from torture. And in his sermon, he said that McGarry said, regarding the girl your grace referring to Elizabeth should not have acted so because it offends the Lord and we will be punished if we do not complain to and criticize your grace. So he is basically at the pulpit in the middle of a church service telling Elizabeth like, you are doing bad things to these girls. And we have to tell you, you're doing bad things, we have to criticize you because otherwise God will be angry with us. Okay, and she's so like, she's in the circus, obviously. Yes, literally in the middle of church. He's basically like stop killing people. And so Elizabeth reportedly stood up and said to him, see here minute Minister Istvan you will soon see that I will make you pay for this. My husband and I have relatives who will not tolerate that you bring such shame on me and denounce me so and she rose and left the church. So she was pissed that he sent this to her. Sure. Um, so she pretty much immediately wrote a letter to her husband, who was still alive at this time, and told him about the pastor's insult in the service and told him that he must punish the pastor for these insults, and was apparently so insistent that he, when he got the letter, he immediately went home to the to the castle of Navarre, and apparently spoke with the minister and was able to kind of appease him. And in the book that I read that I said, looks like well researched, but ultimately, I was like, Oh, you're you're jumping to a lot of conclusions. She says, like, it's likely that he made a large donation to the church as a way to kind of be like, no, stop saying things about my wife. Here's a lot of money. And how around how old is Elizabeth at this point? At this point, she is in her like, late 30s, early 40s. Okay, okay. So the allegations around Elizabeth kind of slowed after the visit from her husband. But it seems like the they were kind of permanently tainted by these rumors. Both of them are kind of like forever linked to torturing and murdering girls. Okay, including rumors that she had learned methods of torture from her husband because of his like battle experience and like torturing prisoners, etc. So, when he died, the kind of protection that she had, sort of went away and so Other rumors came back and a lot of things say like, oh, after he died, she like lost control. And more and more girls started to die. And in the book, she says that Elizabeth opened kind of like an etiquette school for girls to get more young girls there to torture and murder essentially what enlist their girls in that school. An excellent point that the book does not really address. So apparently, these rumors got to the point where they got to the king, who decided that he was going to assign your the thermo the guy who her husband had charged to look after her to investigate her. And this was in the year 1610. So about five years after I'm sorry, not 1610. So just a couple of years after her husband had died, the king charges this man to investigate all of these rumors about Elizabeth, this man your ether zoo was at time the Palpatine of Hungary which is essentially like the, again, the prime minister, he was one of the senior most political offices at the time. Okay. So he hired two people to collect evidence about Elizabeth suppose Id murder and torture. And within about six to seven months he and these other two folks began or were able to collect statements from 52 witnesses. And a few months after that it had risen to over 300 witness testimonies, saying that she had been murdering and torturing people. Okay. What is worth noting is that most of these witness testimonies were not people who was like, I watched her murder someone it was like, Suzy told me that she killed that girl, literally like none of them were first hand accounts. They were all like secondhand accounts. Yeah, so the witness, the word witness is really loose leaving. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So the first person that they had deposed was the warden of Castle savara. So the guy who was kind of head of security, basically. And his name was Ben Dec. Vickery. And he stated that he personally knew of 175 girls and women who Elizabeth had tortured and killed. But he didn't he couldn't give them any details about how these girls had died. He was just like, Yeah, I know, 175 of them are dead due to Elizabeth's misdeeds. It's pretty large of Yes, yes, so not be of any details. And he once said that he had been kind of like patrolling the castle grounds. And he walked past a window in the castle and had seen a blood stain on the wall. And he heard the sound of like somebody being whipped, and stated that the beatings that he had heard beatings like this before, and they would go on for like six or more hours. He also stated that the Countess kept a series of inner rooms in the castle that like people were not permitted to go into and that she kept like under guard. And he said that, that those were the were areas that she was torturing these young women. Which, again, important thing to note, is he saying she did all this in the secret hidden rooms in the castle, but I happen to have walked past an open window where she was torturing someone. So conflicting reports here. Another man who had also served as a warden of silvar said that he had known that there were 300 Victims of Torture at Elizabeth's hand. And the testimonies from all of these folks were saying that Elizabeth was murdering young girls between the ages of 10 and 14, and most of them were these young, poor peasant girls who she essentially owned, and occasionally, members of like lower rank nobility, who hadn't like heard of these rumors and sent their daughters to her etiquette school. So a reverend who ended up testifying against Elizabeth stated that these inner rooms were like, super secret people were strictly warned against entering them and that she kept them under guard at all times. And he would say that Elizabeth tortured young women by sticking pins and needles into their lips and under their fingernails, and that she would burn them and she would cut them with knives. When a okay again, this is a story somebody said, when a serving girl was found stealing a coin. Witnesses said that Elizabeth had had the coin heated red hot and then pressed it into the girl's hand as kind of like us. Punishment fitting the crime sort of thing. She's apparently another servant girl attempted to run away. And Elizabeth supposedly had her stripped naked and made her stand in a river. And this was in the middle of December. So she made her stand in the river until she like died of hypothermia. And again, people said some people said they saw her torturing and killing young girls, most of the accounts are like, Suzy told me, and according to some witness testimonies, as Elizabeth got into her later years, which again, was like early 40s At the time, her later years she the responsibilities of being like nobility and managing estates and, you know, entertaining people and going to other people's courts and things like that was really taxing on her. And so they say, like, when she would finish those like responsibilities of State, she would come back and torture and kill a bunch of people like it kind of coincided according to them. Yeah, blow off some steam. Yes. So on December 12, of 1610, York a thorough, the man charged with investigating her, went to the castle where she was at the time, accompanied by two of her sons in law, who were prominent figures, as well, with a contention of armed guards. And Thoreau would say in a letter to his wife that when he arrived at the castle, unannounced, he found the body of a girl who had been beaten to death and two more who who had been beaten and stabbed one of whom would succumb to her wounds and die. He said that when he walked in, he followed the sounds of screaming and discovered a chamber where three older women and a younger man were torturing a young girl. These four people who were torturing were servants of Elizabeth's and they were arrested and accused of being her accomplices in torture and murder. And their name is were Ilona Joe. Katarina beneski, Dorothea some Tez and Uranus was very thorough said in the letter to his wife that quote, other victims were kept hidden away where this damned woman prepared these future martyrs. So essentially, he found like a chamber of girls waiting to be tortured. Wow. Apparently when he arrived, according to like documentation at the time, she was actually eating dinner. But rumors would later say that he Thoreau had caught her like midway through torturing somebody and like caught her red handed and that Elizabeth was covered in blood when he captured her shift course was pissed when he was like, I'm arresting you for torture and murder. And he apparently dragged her by her hair through the house, according to his letter, and like forced her to look at the bodies of the girls he had tortured and then had her arrested and locked up. She was placed under house arrest at her castle while her for quote unquote accomplices who supposedly had been taught methods of torture by that woman and Darvill yet the one who practiced medicine and surgery. Apparently, they the accusations were that that woman had taught these other four methods of torture. And Anna, by the way, escaped prosecution only because she died the year before all of this happened. So the four other servants would ultimately confess to having been involved in torture and murder. However, these confessions were made while they were being tortured. So okay, yeah, so these confessions were totally under duress. Apparently, Ilona and Dorothy had their fingers torn out of their hands before they were burned alive. And while they were being tortured, they would talk about how Elizabeth bit pieces of flesh from her victims, which would kind of contribute to some of the later rumors that I'll talk about. Wow. And Jonas, being kind of this young man was presumed to be less responsible than the three other women who were her quote unquote accomplices. So he was executed more humanely he was not burned alive, he was beheaded. And another associate of Elizabeth's named heir Z major Rova was known as quote a forest which which I which I noted that sounds like a dream job to me I want to be called a forest which oh my god if I'm going to be any kind of witch I want to be a forest which for for she apparently had escaped arrest but was then captured and also burned alive. The only person who escaped execution was Katerina. And she was given a life prison sentence after she stated that she had only participated in torture, because she had been tortured and abused by the other women. So she was like I was forced to do it. Okay. So they faced trial and 1611. And that trial, a servant girl named Susanna claimed to have been told by a court official that Bathory Elizabeth had kept a record of all her murders, and that the figure was up to 650 people. Wow. However, the court official who supposedly saw this book, never mentioned it in his testimony. And the book that this supposed to figure was noted down in was never produced for evidence, of course. So by the end of January, Thursday, oh, the guy leading the investigation wrote to the king that they had captured Elizabeth and she was under arrest and locked in the castle. And she was there illegally imprisoned without trial until her death on August 20 1614, when she was only 54 years old, which again at the time was probably pretty old. Sure, there are reports that say that thorough the guy who led the investigation was trying to get all of the Bathory estates properties, and that he was through all of this trying to make sure that he was kind of like credited with taking her down, and the king would like bequeath all of the their estate and money to him. However, before she died, Elizabeth wrote a letter wheeling everything to her children. So if that were true, he ended up not getting it, she kind of fully healed him at the end Womp womp. She was buried in the church at that castle in November of 1614. But according to some sources, the villagers protested her being buried because of you know, her being such an evil, villainous woman. And so some accounts say that her body was exhumed and moved to her birth home of X said, but neither Castle bears any markings indicating the location of her burial. Oh, wow. Yeah. So all of the arrests, and all of the accusations against her were entirely based on rumor. There is no historical evidence that anyone ever lodged an official complaint against Elizabeth's conduct, which is pretty uncommon for the period, one of the articles talks about how like, if somebody stole a chicken, there was like legal documentation that that happened. So the fact that all of this went by without any documentation is very suspicious. Various. So a scholar, wrote about how what likely happened is that Elizabeth's arrest and imprisonment was actually just all a conspiracy to take her down. Because as I mentioned, Hungary, and the area was not politically and religiously stable at the time. So there was a lot of like, Game of houses type stuff happening, okay. And when all of these rumors supposedly started circulating, Elizabeth had been like recently widowed, and so she was like a single woman who was possibly the wealthiest person in Hungary, and the one of the largest landowners in the country. And so she was kind of a prime target to be taken down. Right. And there had already been like, those coffins being taken out of her house. Right at that. Exactly. There was, you know, yeah. So the king, who apparently initiated the investigation against Elizabeth apparently owed a large debt to Elizabeth. And so after she was arrested, his debt to the Bathory estate was just kind of like wiped clean. So he benefited from this investigation that he launched against her. And Thoreau, who had led the investigation against Elizabeth was a devout Lutheran, who as the Palpatine of Hungary, was the highest kind of political office and a lot of the articles that I read, said that this kind of gave him like absolute political power. So he could, quote unquote run an investigation but essentially could kind of make whatever he wanted to happen happen right. And he appears to have been like a power mad schemer because right after he assumed power as Palpatine of Hungary, he was involved in a failed assassination attempt on a another prince in the Bathory family. He was involved in another another batteries imprisonment in Prague, and also Elizabeth's illegal imprisonment and a A lack of trial. And apparently his son Imre Thoreau was a like rising politician in Transylvania. And one of those Elizabeth's son was kind of like standing in the way of his son advancing further. So by arresting Elizabeth, he was able to discredit her son and the entire Bathory family, allowing his son to like politically advantage from that, but ultimately, that didn't work because his son died a couple of years later. She She was also a really, she was Protestant in a country that was like increasingly becoming Roman Catholic. And so some of the scholars kind of note that as another reason she was kind of like, ripe for taking down. And what none of the rumors say, but it's very likely is that the estates that Elizabeth owns where she had these folks practicing medicine kind of like served as like a hospital, and so these bodies that supposedly like came out of the castle from her murdering and torturing people, were probably just people who succumbed to illness or like the surgery didn't work. And Thoreau exaggerated all of this to further his political aims. Okay, and evidence supports this because the one of the articles says, quote, The recorded deaths occurring on Earth events, they use the Hungarian version estates coincided with well documented local outbreaks of bubonic plague and typhus. I mean, people died all the time back then, right from every little illness, every infection. So in October of 1610, eight young women died at Elizabeth's Castle, all of whom had shown signs or symptoms of an epidemic disease, but their deaths would later be used by Thoreau and as an excuse to arrest the Countess without formal charges. And what's wild about that is those like eight deaths were kind of like the catalyst for them, like being able to start circulating all these rumors about Elizabeth. She wasn't even home. When those people died. She was at a different estate. Wow. Okay. So Elizabeth would go on to inspire many stories and rumors throughout the 18th and 19th century, and even in today, and these urban legends and fairy tales likely kind of contributed to the exaggeration of the claims against her. Supposedly, what one of the common stories about Elizabeth is that she was physically abusive to her servants, and she hit a serving girl, so hard ones that the girl like blood splattered from her mouth, and it hit Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth wiped it away, the skin underneath the blood was younger and more healthy looking. And so one of the most enduring claims about Elizabeth is that she was intensely vain and like wanting to be young and youthful forever. And so she murdered these 600 Peasant girls so that she could take baths in their blood to stay young. Yikes. However, that claim was not in any of the original documentation and didn't start being repeated about Elizabeth until 100 years after her death. Okay. So they did that in American Horror Story. Okay, Morocco, or whatever. So let me I'll come to that in just a moment. So the bloodbaths thing was supposedly due to her vanity, but when all of the witness accounts, so remember, they like interviewed 600, quote, unquote, witnesses for her trial. Those documents are, were saved, and so historians were able to look at that, and not a single one of them mentioned her bathing and people's blood. Which, if it had been true, or even, like, in any way possible to be said to be true. The historians are like Thoreau obviously would have capitalized on because it's like running this conspiracy against her. The trial, a lot of historians say it was essentially a total Sham. A lot of the evidence against her was forged. And oh, here's the doctor's name, Dr. Erma, said deskey. Cardon says, quote, each location where witnesses were recruited, would first be inundated with rumors of the alleged crimes so that by the time they would testify, the witnesses would be thoroughly familiar with the stories of murder and torture. Among the 300, who would testify there were no victims who had been hurt, and no eyewitnesses who had seen the actual events. In fact, the rumors that surrounded Elizabeth were both in Inspired by and inspired the fear of vampires that pervaded in Europe in the 1700s. And some biographers say that Elizabeth was part of the inspiration for the 1897 novel Dracula. Wow. And has been the character in another a number of novels and films, including the character Lady Gaga played in American Horror Story Hotel. Oh, okay, that was even a different season. And I was thinking of, yeah, wow. Three, is has been labeled by the Guinness Book of World Records as the most prolific female murderer, although, in my opinion, and in several historians opinions, she is completely innocent of all the allegations against her and it was all a conspiracy of men to take her down. I mean, it kind of sounds like that. And I didn't think that at first, either. Yeah. And that is the story of Elizabeth Bathory. The suppose that blood count is that's crazy. Isn't that a wild story? Wow. So I have, I heard the story of Elizabeth Bathory, like 25 years ago, and definitely heard the version where she, like, killed people and bathe in their blood. And so I was like, I originally went into this thinking like, Oh, that's a good story. I'm gonna go research that. And as I researched it, I was like, that is absolutely not the true story. And so it was really excited to like, dig up more information to like, actually find out what happened. That's pretty wild. Wow. So I thought that, you know, I know we're taking a little bit of a break for a couple of weeks. I was like, this will be a good story to kind of like, pause on for a couple of weeks. Yeah, totally. Wow, that's a good one. Thanks. Oh, good job. Thank you. Wow. Well, so I didn't watch the law and order episode. So you're gonna have to read it on your own. Okay. I would rate the episode as a, I'll give it a C. It was rough acting, especially the kid I hate bad kid actors. I really do worst. Yikes. And how was that what the topics of the episode I also I'm gonna give it a D? Because, you know, it seems like pseudoscience and I know they're saying it is, but I feel like, there's still like, well, maybe well, maybe. Yeah, you know, so? I don't know. I'm gonna give it a C and a D. 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