Enn recaps Jurisdiction, Law and Order S03 E16. Matt forgot to watch in time, and so join him as he listens along to this episode with maybe THE MOST ridiculous "evidence" ever. Matt tells us one of the crimes this episode was based on; How connected do you think the Career Girls Murders were to this episode? Emily Hoffert, Janice Wylie and George Whitmore Jr each had world-altering events happen to them while Dr Martin Luther King Jr delivered his I Have a Dream... speech.
Enn recaps Jurisdiction, Law and Order S03 E16. Matt forgot to watch in time, and so join him as he listens along to this episode with maybe THE MOST ridiculous "evidence" ever. Matt tells us one of the crimes this episode was based on; How connected do you think the Career Girls Murders were to this episode? Emily Hoffert, Janice Wylie and George Whitmore Jr each had world-altering events happen to them while Dr Martin Luther King Jr delivered his I Have a Dream... speech.
In this true crime law and order podcast, the episodes are presented by two separate yet equally ridiculous individuals. One who researches the actual crime and the other who recaps the episode. These are their stories.
Enn Burke:What's what's new?
Matt Molinaro:What's new? It's a nor Easter right now, by me, it's snowing like crazy.
Enn Burke:I saw something like a bumble pocalypse or what was it called Snow. There was some clips. No, there was like a bomb were what it was. But are you in the midst of it?
Unknown:Yeah, we'll see how bad it gets. Okay,
Matt Molinaro:overnight. It got pretty deep.
Unknown:Probably. Four inches. Maybe.
Enn Burke:So Is it snowing out there?
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, it's still snowing out there.
Unknown:So wild.
Matt Molinaro:I know. It's like a flurry but it's just pretty deep. So Jose, but we're fine.
Enn Burke:I somehow have like no items to talk about this week. I guess I didn't watch any new media to mention is Have you seen anything new or exciting lately?
Matt Molinaro:I've been watching. Oh, I watched a Dateline episode about the Gabby PITINO case because I've kind of you know, was out of touch with that one. Semi intentionally. Yeah. And so kind of caught me up on the whole thing because you heard that his? Did you hear that Brian Landry's journal was found and that he confessed Basically, yes, I did pretty I hold I mean, yeah, I was. That's like the slam dunk that you hoped for buy. I
Unknown:really didn't expect that. Yeah, definitely. You know, so
Matt Molinaro:just that other than that, I have really no new items either. I don't think
Enn Burke:Well, should we break a record and get into the episode right away? Within just a couple of minutes, then? Oh, my gosh,
Unknown:I feel like dirty.
Enn Burke:I think it'll be okay. I think it's fine.
Matt Molinaro:Okay. I mean, you talked me off the ledge. So let's, let's get into it.
Enn Burke:All right. All right. It's me. It's me. Thank God, I woke up. Somehow, I like went to bed confidently last night. Like I'm already for recording tomorrow. I've done everything. And then I woke up and I realized I had prepared for neither of our podcasts. So it's a good thing that I'm the recap, because that only took me like an hour to watch the lawn order and write down my notes on it.
Matt Molinaro:Hmm. Funny, you should say that as as as you're going through that. Okay. And your mind. Fun fact.
Unknown:Okay, I forgot to watch the episode. Okay, but that's okay. But that's okay. We've done this before. done this before? Yes, definitely. So I'm going to be there with you. I'm going to be like a viewer reacting on the spot on the fly with you. Real Time reaction reactions in real time. And then next week, I'll have watched the episode if there was
Matt Molinaro:anything particular a note that I think you should highlight
Enn Burke:this Yeah, I'll
Matt Molinaro:it'll be my my stuff to mention.
Enn Burke:You're actually willing to go back and watch one that you don't have to watch?
Matt Molinaro:Oh, I've never missed one. I even the I've done this once before I have to I'm a completionist. I'm okay.
Enn Burke:I mean, it's it's not like there's much of a character development storyline that you wouldn't be missing. I want
Matt Molinaro:to be there for every moment. I'm dedicated to the craft. Oh, I'm a completionist. And the way you know it is that and this might piss some people off out there. But I don't care. I watched a whole season a whole entire season of How I Met Your Mother. Oh, yeah. Really gave her the chance because everyone told me how clever and funny and I just agreed it was. Oh, wow. I mean, I searched for a laugh from like, the pit of my stomach. So but I watched the whole season. I can't Yeah, I have to there has to be an endpoint for me. You know, I can't just but then I leave things unfinished that I really love. So, uh, yeah. Well,
Unknown:I know, I know. I got free therapy out there for me.
Enn Burke:Here's what I'll say about this episode is you ain't missing much. So all right, here we go. Let's do it. It's called jurisdiction. It's
Matt Molinaro:in his episode. 16. Okay, I
Enn Burke:have that written down. Okay, great. I for some reason,
Unknown:I've been noting it.
Enn Burke:Okay, so this is an episode that opens in kind of a building that I had never sort of seen before. It took me a few minutes to make sense of what the building was okay, because it was it looked both like a hospital and an apartment building, which it kind of is because we eventually learned that it's a dormitory for nurses, which I had never heard of, but maybe it's they were like, students.
Matt Molinaro:I think that's a thing. Yeah, I think when you're doing residency,
Enn Burke:Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. So we see two nurses who are walking through the hallway having a conversation about taking a vacation going to Aruba and then they, they're kind of like walking down the hallway and they knock on one of the doors. And the line that she says when she knocks on the door is party animals. It's grind time, which nobody would ever say in real life.
Matt Molinaro:Party Animals is grind time. Sounds like what like a mom says when she busts in on her, her twin sons party,
Unknown:and they like, they like skateboarding. It's just like, hey, party animals, it's grind, Scott like pizza rolls.
Enn Burke:So nobody responds to the knock. So they go and ask the maid in some really bad Spanish to let them into the apartment. And she does. And inside, they find that the women who lived inside have been attacked. Blood is everywhere. One of the women has been killed. Another one is like barely clinging to life, the cops arrive. And they see that the woman who was murdered is missing the ring finger on her right hand. And so they're wondering, like, maybe it's I think they said right hand. But anyway, she's missing a ring on a ring finger. And so they're like, maybe it's a jilted lover. So they're kind of trying to figure out why this, this finger might be missing, and who would have done this, and we get the title sequence. So a little bit of a little bit of a break. I have a little time. So I decided to do a 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, but I did it upside down just for a little challenge, because I thought, you know, I have a little time to burn. So
Matt Molinaro:yeah, you don't want to do you don't want to finish halfway through and then like, just end up
Enn Burke:waiting. Exactly. Right, exactly. So we come back, and we're still at the apartment building. And they're interviewing the girls who had knocked on or the women who had knocked on the apartment door. And they asked about the ring and learned that it wasn't an engagement ring it she wore a cameo ring from her grandmother. Oh, those are pretty. Yeah. So Cragin appears and says that the media is already comparing this case to Richard spec, which was so fun. Which was so interesting, not funny. Because i The minute I saw that this was like a nurse's dormitory. I was immediately thinking that must be the case. This is best based off of which we'll get there and you'll tell me if it is or not. Hmm, so Briscoes response is, spec was sloppy. This guy wore gloves and craigan asks if there's any evidence of sexual assault, and Logan replies that quote, some of the knife work our guy did on Vicki had nothing to do with killing her, which implies that yes, she was sexually assaulted. Right? The cop tells them that they found something in the stairwell and it's a partial footprint with blood. And there's another one kind of like by the exterior door. So they head out that door and they're kind of doing this this episode feels a little bit like SVU you know when like, Elliot and Olivia sort of like stand out a scene and look around and try to just like magically picture what the crime must have been like, Oh, you have a theory that
Unknown:like they're about to roleplay but in like in the outside world, like they're exactly their LARPing
Enn Burke:Yes, they are. Yes, that's exactly right. So outside the door, Logan finds a little wooden shim and it's like this is how he got in and shows how like the door when you open it from the inside would like pass over the shim, but when it swings closed, it like keeps it propped open so it wouldn't lock itself so they think that's how the guy got into the building. Briscoe says this is a again it's just one of those scenes that's hard to explain without you watching it but then it's kind of like they are doing a little bit of a Sherlock Holmes thing of like if this than this so they're like okay, so that's how we kept the door open and so Brisco goes he must have been waiting in the bushes so he looks around and find some bushes and he squats down and he looks at Logan and the other cops who are still standing by the door. And then he goes he was here and they go footprints and he says sweet tooth and he holds up a candy wrapper so some crack detective work they go speak so they speak with the head of security for like so the the nurses storm is like right next door to a hospital so they speak with the head of security who I guess oversees both of those buildings. And they're like, don't you have anybody patrolling? Are you still laughing about sweet tooth?
Unknown:Go talk to them. Willy Wonka.
Enn Burke:Chocolate Factory
Unknown:you're okay, sorry. Got a really wet.
Enn Burke:So they're speaking with the head of security, he explains that he added a second patrol of the nurses dormitory recently because the other day he found somebody like saw a man on the third floor walking around just like pulling doorknobs. And he chased after him, but he got away. They want to know, what is this guy look like? Who is he? And he says that he's a white guy in his 20s with average of an average build. So while they're talking, do you know have you ever noticed that when? Since this is like pre, not really? pre pre cell phones, but kind of pre cell phones at this point? Yeah, they're at this security area of a hospital and the phone their rings, and it's a call for Logan. I don't understand how that would happen.
Unknown:security desk of a hospital.
Enn Burke:Yes. And somebody knows to call her to speak with Logan.
Unknown:I'd be like, Don't personal calls, or you know who work here,
Enn Burke:honestly. And Logan says, Oh, the doc says she can talk. So they're on their way to meet the surviving the surviving member of the duo in the apartment. And she says Vicki what her roommate who was killed was watching TV and she went to sleep. And she kind of like had a dream and thought she was dreaming about like a struggle and a fight. But she woke up and realized that there was a man attacking her roommate, and she said that the man was on her back. And then he came at her and she was frozen in fear. And they asked him, I asked her to describe him and and she says he had light skin. He wasn't black or Hispanic. And she grabbed her. She says she she says he grabbed her and was very strong. So they asked if it was someone she might have known. But she says, or they asked if it was somebody that the roommate might have known and she says, you know, we all knew the same people like we work together, we live together, we would like hang out together. So there wasn't really anyone that was in her life that wasn't in mind. But then she goes except at the clinic and we learned that Vicki kind of moonlighted at a methadone clinic training in drug rehabilitation, I guess. Okay, so Logan and Briscoe chat about what to do next. And Briscoe suddenly remembers a case of a nurse getting stabbed the previous month in Brooklyn. So they had to Brooklyn homicide to talk to the detectives in that case to find out if it's related in some way.
Matt Molinaro:Are we gonna get those his hours as yours? Uh, huh. Yes. Okay. Yeah. All you have to say was Brooklyn and anywhere? Yeah. Going?
Enn Burke:Yeah. It's one of those episodes that is not procedurally very interesting, because it's literally two district attorneys arguing over who gets to try a case, basically. So the detective in the Brooklyn case is the guy who plays shares dad in clueless. I know you're not as familiar with clueless, but I'm gonna look it up while you're, you would recognize his voice instantly. He has a very distinctive voice. Anyway, he tells them that the woman who was murdered in her his case was named Mary Davis. And she was stabbed to death in her apartment, no signs of forced entry. He says the guy stole some money in some jewelry, and that he sexually assaulted her as well. So pretty similar Mo, as to the new case in Manhattan. Yeah. We learn that Mary Davis the the murder victim from Brooklyn, also worked at the methadone treatment center where Vicki worked. They had down there and speak with a woman who says like, you know, people come in and out if you're like, constantly so this woman, Vicki, she could have worked with hundreds of people. So I can't really narrow down for you anybody that she interacted with, because it's a lot. But they're like, Okay, well give us the list of everybody anyway. So back at the station, they are looking at a list of 270 people who the who have used the methadone clinic while Vicki was there. Okay, that's all and by the way, they use the phrase junkies a lot in this, which I'm not a big fan of. So Logan says we're making we're maybe looking at quote program junkies unless they dropped out of the program. So they they kind of do some outcomes raiser logic and they're like, alright, it's probably somebody who dropped out of the program. You know, that that limits to 50 people when we eliminate all the men of color, we're at 20 and 30 people so they're like, Okay, this is this is Is the pool of people we're going to look into. They the first person they pull in from the list is a guy who looks exactly like Ron Howard to me, but he is an actor that probably other people will recognize. He was on like, every single season of ER.
Matt Molinaro:He looks like a young Ron Howard or like an older like, like Happy Days Ron Howard or like a director Ron Howard.
Enn Burke:I'm happy days younger.
Matt Molinaro:Okay to
Enn Burke:like, kind of like 30 ish, bald, you know?
Matt Molinaro:Was he the jerk? The jerk on ER,
Enn Burke:his on ER he play? I never watched er, so I can't really tell you if he was a jerk or not. But he played Robert Romano. Okay,
Matt Molinaro:I'm looking at him right now. Yeah, I've I've seen probably like 10 episodes of er over the past like two years randomly. Let me tell you, my hot take on ER is it's a drama in a hospital, but they must have it on a tilt awhirl because it is like you're just so rapidly spinning around
Enn Burke:from Oh, like the camerawork is really like Higgledy Piggledy? Yes, it's and it's intentional. Because like, yeah, to make it like fast paced and yeah, yeah. Like a jerk. Okay, the actor's name is Paul and the crane for anybody out there who has big er, head. All right. So yeah, hospital head. Okay, so they're interviewing this guy, they don't really get any helpful information. They interview a second guy who they have kind of like a verbal sparring match with but he, when you watch the episode, I just need I need a text from you in reaction to this man's look, because it's it's a choice. Okay, so creegan comes over and tells them you can really solve the junkies because Brooklyn called and they have a suspect. And he's confessed to the murders. So they head back to Brooklyn to speak with the detective. And he says that they found a boning knife in this man's room that had been washed clean. And so they get him an interrogation room. And he says he killed her because she was a nurse and nurses make a lot of money, which is not true. But he says that he knew her from quote the house where he lived, which was a halfway house, where, but also Mary Davis had worked as part of a drug rehabilitation thing. It also happens to be a halfway house for drug addicts who are developmentally disabled. And by the way, the R word gets thrown around a lot in this episode. Oh, so um, yeah. So despite the fact that this man is developmentally disabled, his IQ scores are high enough to indicate competence to stand trial. So that's for the Brooklyn case, now, Manhattan is still trying to get their case of these two murdered women, you know, resolved. And so they want to make sure that he is the same man who murdered Vicki. So the next thing they do is possibly the wildest thing I've ever seen them do on law and order, which is they bring the man who has confessed to murdering the women into the surviving victims hospital room, so that she can identify him. And she's, of course, like, I'm scared, and they're like, Don't worry, he won't be able to see you. And how do they accomplish this magical feat you might ask? They shine a lamp in his direction. Not any kind of special lamp just like a desk lamp that is hanging out in the room. And that is the magical protection that they give this woman
Unknown:did they at least go like? Nothing? They did not as they did it, like pretending they were doing some kind of magical spell? No,
Enn Burke:not at all. So then they take this man through the crime scene as well. Oh, sorry. So the woman identified him but she's like, it happened fast. I can't be 100% Sure, I think it was him. So then they take the suspect to the crime scene and walk him through the crime scene. And again, no lawyer present nothing that he's just, you know, talking them through how he killed these two women. And you know, again, he says the door was open. I stabbed her by the door. The other girl was in the bed and I killed her or I stabbed her. And Logan asks how he got in the building. And he tells him about the wooden shim. And Logan asks like, where did you learn about that? And he says in a detective book. And then Logan says, Do you want a candy bar? And he goes, No, it's bad for my teeth. And this is the piece of evidence that apparently tells them that maybe this wasn't the guy who killed them after all
Unknown:because we all know it's kind of someone's got a sweet tooth. They cannot possibly can big bar of any type.
Enn Burke:So they asked how he got to the apartments, and then we get this whole episode is so fucking weird. They asked how he got there. And we get probably what is a three and a half minute like lecture of all of the trains and subways and connections that he took to get there. Like, it's like I took the aid of, to the 340, south to the 25. It went on for way too long. And then he thinks like, he thinks that they're testing him to see like, did he really do this? And kind of what we get over the course of this episode is this man is developmentally disabled, but he really doesn't like to be thought of as disabled. And so he is constantly kind of trying to prove that he's smart to everyone. So he's like, you're trying to test me, and then some nurses come out and he goes apeshit and starts calling them the B word. And they're like, Okay, so this guy fits everything, except for the sweet tooth. So they're, they're still going to investigate this case, because they think it can't be him. If he doesn't eat candy.
Unknown:No, he doesn't have that terrible affliction of sweet tooth.
Enn Burke:Also, I'm sorry, I feel like you could look in any single bush in any single city. And you're gonna find a candy wrapper or something like that in there. Like there it that's, anyway,
Unknown:is this going to be like trunk from the Goonies or cookie monster
Enn Burke:that would have been an improvement on the storyline for this episode? So they're at the station debating what to do since their whole candy angle is kind of like throwing a wrench in the works. And craigan gives his typical sage advice of get out there and do some detective work. So they go out there and do some detective work. They head to the halfway house where the developmentally disabled man that is their current suspect. He His name is David. They call him Davey throughout the episode. And the guy who worked at the halfway house said that Davey had a problem dealing with anger. They go and look in his room and they find a book about homicide investigation. And the the staff member says that Davey was fascinated by police work. They asked if David ever talked about his prior arrest because we learned that he had assaulted. It's unclear if he was an adult when this happened. But apparently when he was living with his mother, he says he kissed a neighborhood girl but the parents said that, you know he had assaulted her and they they filed rape charge. So back at the station, they get a call that the blood on the knife that was found in Davey's apartment, matches the blood type of one of the victims. But Logan says that also matches my blood type. So it's it's not really helpful information. And they're still working on a DNA profile, which this could be the first time I've heard Law and Order say DNA, I'm not sure know anything about it. So they take David to a police car, and they're going to have him returned to the Brooklyn precinct. And as he gets in the car, he says, Those girls were bad. They deserved to die in the courtroom. In Brooklyn. We get Shambala green, representing David as the public defender. And she's She requests a test to determine if he really is competent to stand trial for the murder of the women in Brooklyn. And then we get a scene of him being questioned by Dr. Olivet asked him to determine his IQ. She has him name US presidents. She has him do some math. She asks him to describe the responsibilities of like his Shambala green and of the district attorney to make sure he really understands what's going on. And she says, and he's answers the questions pretty well about like the role of a public defender and the role of a district attorney. And so she says, You sound like you've, you went to law school, and he says, Yeah, I went there. And Shambala says, Davey, you know, you didn't go to law school, and he says, You just don't think I'm smart enough. Ted Bundy went to law school. So, ultimately, Dr. Olivet says that his IQ was around 78 And he is competent enough to stand trial. She thinks that this all of the way that he's interacted with the police so far indicates that he resents being thought of as disabled and he wants to prove how competent he is to other people. This like like I said,
Matt Molinaro:this like IQ stuff, we don't we don't really do this kind of thing anymore. Right isn't No, I think we do we do. We really focus on the IQ thing. Yeah,
Enn Burke:I think so. Yeah, I'd have to look into it. But just not thinking about making a murderer. That was a big part of that case.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm not disputing whether I don't know if it's, you know, something that should be accurate or not. But it just seems like I thought I heard something about it not being looked at as quite the measure of
Enn Burke:intelligence audit. Well, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure there's so many studies about how it does or doesn't provide helpful evidence been. So, Shambala green files a motion to get his confession. What's the word excluded from evidence, which she is ultimately successful at claiming that Devi had asked for a lawyer and that the Brooklyn detective had denied him one. And, by the way, during this time, Davey again reiterates that the girls that he killed he calls them girls were bad because they use drugs. And so now, Logan and Briscoe are kind of like, wait a minute, they're using drugs. So we kind of find out that the two women who were attacked, one of them who was killed were, you were sort of like dealing a little bit on the side, like they got pills from the methadone clinic or medication from the methadone clinic, and we're sort of selling it. And one of her clients was a man named Marty link. And they go speak with him. And he said, he basically tells them that the guy you're looking for for these murders is not the guy like, Davy was not the person who killed them, essentially, is what he told them tells the police but he's incarcerated for something else, and so are under arrest for something else, I think. And so he's kind of like, Well, I'll tell you who did it. If you give me a deal on my case, if you kind of drop the drug charges against me, stone for some reason is is reluctant to do this. Because, you know, there's so much evidence that says maybe Davey did do this. But there's just enough to kind of like keep them questioning. And this new criminal man Marty link, he says that he the man who killed her tried to give him the CAMEO ring, or he just says a cameo ring and said he'd give him an extra for an extra $5. I'll give him the finger that comes with it. So this is evidence that is not widely known to the public. So they're like, Okay, this is probably credible information. So maybe he does actually know who the murderer was. So dry. Stone thinks that the Brooklyn detective forced a confession out of Davy so he asks him to offer Marty link, the guy who supposedly has information, a deal, but the Brooklyn da refuses, he's like Davey confessed, it's, it's done, I'm over, or it's over. So in da sheriff's office Stone says that David has the mind of a seven year old and they he really wants to impress upon people how smart he is. And so what stone things happened is the Brooklyn detective wanted to close the case, and was able to kind of coerce a confession out of Devi and sort of like preyed on his disability. So meanwhile, while they're trying to get Devi into their jurisdiction to determine if he could stand if he is, you know, involved in this case in any way, he is found guilty on all counts in the Brooklyn case. And stone is kind of basically upset by this because he knows the confession was kind of coerced in some way. He doesn't think Davey did it. But now this conviction is going to prevent him from trying his case. So what he does is he gets a special prosecutor on like drug enforcement to look into the case because this person has like cross jurisdictional access. And so they kind of like use that as a way to get Davey's conviction sort of stayed in the Brooklyn case so that they can investigate the Manhattan cases.
Matt Molinaro:I found it was very clever, but I also feel like in the real world, don't you think if that was something that like they wanted to do, that would immediately be like, appealed by the other side?
Enn Burke:I would think so. But, but it seems to ruffle enough feathers that it's apparently a kind of questionable action, like people are upset that stone does this because they say he's like overreaching. By the way, there's a scene where all of the DBAs from both districts or jurisdictions are in a room together and they're all kind of like hemming and hawing and posturing. And the Brooklyn DA says, I'm going to tie a tin can to your tail. That's a threat apparently, I don't really understand how. So meanwhile, they they were able to kind of like get the information out of the guy who's As he knows who killed them, and they go and pick that man up, and it's the Ron Howard guy from earlier in the episode, his footprints match, he had a previous conviction for stabbing a woman, and he has a ton of pills on him. So ultimately, they get him to plead guilty to two counts of murder to. And stone then goes and talks to Davy, who we now know, was wrongfully convicted in the Brooklyn case, and says to him, that he doesn't think you were capable of it. And he said, and Davey says, you know, I keep my word to my friend who helped me and Stone says, like, Who do you who What do you mean, who helped you? And we learned it was Detective tirelli, who essentially when Davy was in custody, told him that, you know, you're gonna get in trouble for this previous thing, you know, I need you to confess and help me out. And so, you know, we kind of get the the evidence, the statement that Davy was indeed coached by the Brooklyn investigator to confess to these murders that he didn't commit. So the episode closes, with them going in arresting that detective for perjury and obstruction of justice. And then much like the very first episode of Law and Order, I think we get those weird after credit things. Yeah. Which are Yeah, words, windscreen, yes. Which are not about real people. But it says it gives an after credit on the DA saying that, you know, he was able to plead down and he left his job at the district attorney's office to go work for a private litigation firm. And then there was something about how like, Davey is still like in custody 10 months after the appeal of his Brooklyn conviction. And that's the end of the episode.
Matt Molinaro:Interesting. Maybe they just thought like, we're running out of time. This was kind of boring. But he, you know,
Enn Burke:I would say those both of those things seemed true. It was definitely not an amazing episode, like entertainment wise to watch.
Unknown:Gotcha. All right. Well, great job.
Enn Burke:Thanks. Tell me about the true crime.
Matt Molinaro:All right. Well, I felt like I was there. So thank you. It was interesting for me to hear about the episode after knowing about the crime because I saw so many connections now. Okay. Okay. Um, what was the one you mentioned earlier? The
Enn Burke:Richard spec, Richard spec. There
Matt Molinaro:we go. So this episode was actually based on elements from two different crimes.
Enn Burke:Okay. One of them again? No. Okay. One of
Matt Molinaro:them was the Richard spec. Oh,
Unknown:one. All right.
Matt Molinaro:The other one, I'm not going to tell you the name of it right up front. Because I want to
Enn Burke:go you want to build a story. Okay. Yeah, I'm good.
Matt Molinaro:And I want to say I got a lot of information from a Vanity Fair article. Oh, okay. The author. His name is James Ellroy.
Enn Burke:Okay. I,
Matt Molinaro:okay. The article is great. Okay, it's long. It's comprehensive. It has a lot of information. And it has this voice is written in. Yeah. And I was like, Is this guy like, a retired police officer from back in the day? Like, oh, like back in the day, like, yeah, it's got a lot of like that Dick Tracy sort of, like,
Enn Burke:vibe, kind of like, that book that I read when we talked about the I forget his name, but the police officer who was kind of like shuffled around because of corruption. Yeah, first first season anyway.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah. You're and it has that. Yeah. Has that same kind of vernacular? Yeah. So I, it was hard to take completely serious thing at times. But I at the end of it, I decided I have a few quotes from the article, okay, that are sort of like, ridiculous moments like that. And so at the end of this horrendous story, I'm just going to end with those to kind of lighten the mood. Great. Okay. All right. So this case takes place in 1963, New York City. Okay. Fingertips by Stevie Wonder was the number one single
Enn Burke:at the time. I do not know that song. I looked
Matt Molinaro:it up. And the reason you don't know is because this was Stevie Wonder's first ever billboard hit. Number one, and it made him the first the youngest ever artist to have a number one single on the Billboard Top one while he was 13 will be the one wonder was 13 just just in your head, and his name, his stage name, which I didn't know what this original stage name was still little Stevie Wonder because he Mr.
Enn Burke:Little, and tell me again what your this is 1963 63 Okay, great if we're to think, like Stevie Wonder could not have been 13 in the 90s. But this makes a lot more sense. Yeah, yeah.
Matt Molinaro:But isn't it just bizarre to think about? Like, yeah, to place yourself in time and things like that? Yes. So it's August 28 1963. It's a hot summer day. And this is going to be one that has historic significance. I was wondering if you know what happened on this day? This is not to put you on the spot. I'm just curious because you always you're just the law smarter than me with things like this.
Enn Burke:I'm really really notoriously bad with date. Okay. Okay.
Matt Molinaro:So August 28 1963. Not ringing a bell Not off the top of my head. Okay, good. So I don't feel silly for and having been like, oh, wow, I No idea. So this day is the March on Washington that concluded with Dr. Martin Luther King Junior's I Have a Dream speech.
Enn Burke:Okay, that makes sense. So I literally names and dates are oh really hard in my
Matt Molinaro:head me to me to say whenever I'm in like a room with a bunch of scholarly acting folk, I'm always like, get me out of here. So in Manhattan, three women in their 20s have chosen to live what at the time could be considered an alternative lifestyle. They chose to get jobs. Oh, wow. Okay, they chose to enter the workforce and still be single and live single women in the city can you believe
Enn Burke:so? It's merely Mary Tyler Moore, but in the 60s.
Matt Molinaro:And so these girls are often known as career girls around town. Yeah. And it's considered dangerous sort of like an alluring lifestyle for women at the time. You know, get out, you know, don't have to be just like your be independent. Yeah, exactly. So, the women's names we have Janice Wiley, she's 21 years old. She is an aspiring theatre actress working for Newsweek at the clip desk, which sounds like a fun job. They like read all the paper, things and stuff. I love that. Then we have Emily Hoffer, who is 23 she is going to be starting a teaching job that fall. And then pat tolls, who is also 23 years old, and she is working at Time Life magazine doing research. So three young women living together in Manhattan enjoying their time there very much on this historic day. While it reported 50,000 Manhattanites went to DC for this March, these girls remained behind taking their morning train, working nine to five, you know, Diane Keaton, baby boom, shoulder pads. All right. So Pat had an early shift. She was at work on this day when all of this all of this was happening on TV, and in DC. Emily went out to run errands, and Janice slept in a little bit. Being that her shift didn't start until early afternoon that day. Pat received a call in the afternoon while she was at work from her roommate Janice's job. And they had just been on the phone with Janice, his mother. And she had not arrived at work, which was surprising to them because she had chosen the shift. She had switched with somebody else. And it's afternoon so nobody had heard from her. So she hadn't heard from her either. When she got off the phone with them, Janice's mother had called her right afterwards and you know, a similar conversation. So Pat decided to call their other roommate Emily couldn't get in touch with her either. She goes ahead and calls Emily's friend, Susan. This is all landline situations. I'm assuming two because it's like 63 Right. So yeah, it's all like
Enn Burke:if you're not home, you're not home. Yeah, not even pagers, right.
Matt Molinaro:So there she calls Susan, who is a friend of all three of them. Because Susan was supposed to be having lunch with Emily that day. So she figures maybe she gets Susan on the phone. She can find out where Emily is. You know, then we'll we'll get to the bottom of this. But Susan said that Emily actually never showed up for lunch. So now Pat is like okay, well, both of my roommates are potentially missing. And I don't know what to do. I'm at work. I wasn't going to do. Yeah, so she gets home from work just before 630 She just took the subway home. It's not just like she can like just get home real quick. She gets upstairs to find the door to her apartment has a jar where she is sure she did not leave it that way. So she gets scared. The she creeps in pre like carefully. She sees a mess around the bedrooms and so she leaves and she calls the police and says you know, my my doors where she saw. Yeah. Then she calls Janice's parents. because they were in touch with her earlier and they actually live in like a apartment nearby, like I think within walking distance basically. So upon hearing that, you know, the scene of the house looks crazy and they've been worried about her. Johnson's father Max comes right over and he beats the police to the apartment. Okay. He goes inside, and when he enters his daughter's room, that's Janice. He sees the room as a total wreck. The mattress has a huge blood stain on it. And then next to the bed. On the floor under a blanket are the bodies of his daughter, Janice Wiley, who was 21 and her friend and roommate Emily Hoffer, who was 23 Terrible, terrible, terrible, Jonas. His daughter is naked. And disemboweled. Oh, god, okay. The both bodies are bloody and bound with ripped white linen from the room. And then the bodies are bound back to back together using torn sheets from the room. Emily is fully clothed. On the floor, there's a broken glass, like a bunch of broken glass. There's the the head or the neck of a broken soda bottle. And at the scene overall, they find three kitchen knives, two of which had broken during the attack. Wow. Yeah. This is what the father of one of these girls had to say before police arrived and secured the scene.
Enn Burke:That's terrible.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, I mean, not that either one should see. But like, of course, the one who has the far more graphic looking death too. So police arrived at the scene shortly afterwards. They they find that there were multiple stab wounds to both women of course, the fatal stab wounds were the ones to the girls each with girls chests. And the other ones I already mentioned. We don't have to belabor that but both girls had been beaten on the head at some point with the soda bottle they suppose before it smashed. And Emily specifically had many defensive wounds to her wrists and hands. She was the one who was like the friends with the teaching job coming up. So the scene the door was either picked by like a good lock picker or the girls let them in because there was no real forced entry. There was an open bottle of knock Sima face cream at the scene and it was on Janice as well with indications of rape without being used. And Emily had no indication of sexual assault. Either way, neither of the details of either of their sexual assaults were disclosed to the press. A Small Kindness immediately the police began investigating Of course, and the media lashes on this was dubbed the career girls murder. Which what the story's about what she didn't want to say at the beginning. So at this okay, courier a girl's murder. It grasps the nation as the dangers of living alone in the big city as a young woman, all of the stories your parents told you are true, especially if you go to Manhattan. And if you go, you know, even in the area where they lived, that was kind of like more fancy. You know, even this could happen to you there in your own home. So this was what was going on at the time. I think even if it's not right afterwards is not long after that. Janice has father Max like creates his own sort of pamphlet handbook about being a young career girl in the city handing it out to people to you know, be careful.
Unknown:Luckily,
Matt Molinaro:none of the media was doing the whole oh, maybe these girls were like quote unquote, asking for it thing that usually happens right pays for this? Yeah, that was never the spin they took on it. These victims were always looked at as victims. Yeah. They were looked at they did become a little bit of a cautionary tale, like I said, But in the meantime, what the press did seem to focus on was this narrative. Basically, this attractive bombshell blonde, Janice Wiley murdered who wasn't an ex was the secret admirer. Oh, by the way, her bookish friend Emily was killed too. That was basically how it came came across. Okay. Most of the time their pictures were featured side by side. Emily's was far smaller, like the footnote, Emily was described just like ordinary and a lot of the papers and bookish home homely things like that, that it was like very rude like they were they they made her seem pitiful,
Enn Burke:right. Like number one. Don't say those things about anyone. But number two, especially a murder victim.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah, yeah, it was all about like, oh, this this poor girl who had totally ordinary life and we're so ordinary Yeah, she got wrapped up because her really beautiful housemate was probably lusted upon by somebody and she just was wrong is wrong. It was really unfortunate. But yeah, okay. I mean, it's the early days. I mean, as we've seen, it gets much worse with reporting of things like this, so, okay, so in the meantime, the police investigate multiple angles, because they really don't have anyone specific in mind. There's no like current boyfriends or specific similar mo that they've seen. So this sort of check with the girls histories who they dated. Emily didn't really have a dating history. She was like, notoriously single, but Janice dated quite a bit. So they had quite a few guys they spoke to, they spoke to her coworkers, male and female. There were even a few girls that had flirted with her that she had like, written about, they go through her entire, like Black Book of phone numbers, she has an among them are some girls. So they're wondering if there's a lesbian angle to it? Of course they are. Of course they are. And every by the way, even when it was sort of being parodied on every article I read or thing I watch brings up this angle. Obnoxious? Yeah, um, of course, it comes up with nothing. Everyone has an alibi everyone's accounted for, and nobody has any reason to have a problem with either of these girls. So all dead ends. We Fast forward to about a half a year later, it's April 14 1964, a woman named Minnie Edmonds. She's 46 years old. She's killed and raped in an alley in Brownsville, a city in Brooklyn. Nine days later from that, yeah, about an hour outside of Manhattan on April 23 1964. In the same neighborhood of Brownsville, Elba, Barreiro a 21 year old nurse was stalked, attacked and dragged into an alleyway by a man. Luckily, there was a officer nearby on foot that's sort of heard of tussle and she kept screaming, so he followed her voice and found them. He held his gun out and warned the guy to you know, put his hands up and the guy kept trying to take the purse. He warned him again, the guy sprinted off his he gets away, and, and that's it, they don't find them right away. Neither of these crimes get a lot of attention in the media, because both of them involved women of color as the victims or survivors, okay. Both were like looked at as alcoholics or otherwise unsavory with their lifestyle in some way. But because they both happened in this area, and they were similar to each other, they caught the attention of just a Brooklyn detectives, so they looked into them with relation to each other first. Okay, so they have Elba alive. She goes to the station, just talking about her assault, and she says that she didn't see much of him, but she can give her the best description she she has, which is that he's five, nine ish, about 165 pounds between 20 and 25 years old. She says he's black, and he was wearing a jacket and dark pants. And about that jacket. She was able to rip a button from it. So she hasn't and they've asked for evidence. All right, about a block or so away. A young man is 19 years old. His name is George Whitmer. Whitmore, Jr. He is nodding off. It's the next morning after this attack around 6am. He's nodding off in a laundromat doorway. Police Officer notices him. He's waiting for his brother. Officer. I sold law watches him for about an hour and notices. He's just still sitting there. So he thinks it's unusual. And he approaches them and asks, you know what's going on? He says he's waiting for his brother. Like I said, they're looking for work at a nearby salt shipping company. And you know, his brother's like setting that up while he waits here. They asked him if he heard anything the night before because it was right around the corner. And he says he did hear like some yelling and sort of fight nearby. And not too long afterwards. A man tall black between 23 and 26 years old he ran by and he actually asked him to pro hide him from the fuss and and then he said no, like, I'm like a kid and then he just like left. Okay, now, despite George the guy that thick of a photographer to sitting in the laundromat, doorway, just met George being five six, which is three inches shorter than Elvis description. Also 19 years old, so a year younger than the lowest end of the range that she described without a weapon, and 140 pounds which is 25 pounds less than the description from Elba. Despite all of these factors. They bring him in for questioning. Because he's black. Yeah. So, all of the reporting I saw described him as, quote, dim, or like, just another close, limp, slow witted. Yeah. So I don't know, actually, if he actually has any sort of challenges or disability or really anything like that. There's no evidence to say that he does. It's just these articles, as you're describing his demand slow way to to, well, it. I won't say why. Because who knows? There's multiple reasons why they could be saying this. So Okay. Okay. You know, it's not an uncommon stereotype we see in situations like this. Yeah. Well, we actually know about George to be true is that he was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, May 26 1944, making him just about 20, just under 20. At this time, he was raised in Wildwood New Jersey, which is a really fun area. I'm in Jersey and the Jersey Shore is a like, if you want to go to the Jersey Shore, and you don't want to go to like seaside which is like where the TV show Jersey Shore is where things are really very much like that. But you don't want to go to like, boring family like only families jersey shore where it's like just news on the beach. was like a good mix. It has like things to parky type things. It has a really fun boardwalk has clubs, it has bars, food family. Cute. I love Wildwoods. So this is where he grew up. And now at 19 years old, he is sitting in a Brooklyn police station. And he he doesn't even know why. What's going on. Really? Yeah, yeah. So they have Elba, the survivor at the station. And they have her come in and look through photo lineups for hours. With no identification. She cannot say any of the people or the guy. Then they show her George in a room nearby. Just George not a lineup. He's just sitting there waiting to be interrogated. And they say, do you recognize him? Is that the guy? And she's like, I'm not really sure. And they ask him to speak. And so they tell him to say Shut up or I'll kill you. And he does. And then she's like, okay, yeah, that's him. This was not normal procedure. He should have been in a lineup. This should have been something he knew that was happening, but they circumvented the system, and they arrest him based on this. And then they interrogate him for several days, three days total, actually in a row. Three days later, he eventually does give a confession about the assault on Elba. He's left alone for a bit and then a follow up asking them about the murder of many admins that happened the week prior. She says yes, he did that, too. Okay. He did not have a lawyer present. But this was before Miranda rights were a thing. So it wasn't uncommon or illegal technically, for them to do that. Police search his things while he's being interrogated for three days and they find in his wallet, two photos of white women. Okay, one is blonde one is brunette. Okay. They're like photographs. So not like magazine clippings. So they look at the blonde and they think oh, maybe this is Janice. This could be Janice. I mean, to blonde white woman candy. Like that's kind of what they want with this. So they asked him who is the picture of and he says it's a girl from Wildwood that he knows. And then they're like, I don't think that's true. And then he later admits, okay, I don't know the girl. These were photos that like I found in the trash and I carried them around because I wanted to like impress people and say like, I had a girlfriend, basically. Yeah. He even wrote on the back, like to George from Linda or something like that. Okay, they don't buy the story. He eventually confessed his that he got the photo from Janice's house on his way out of the apartment before, you know, killing both Janice and Emily. So they think, Okay, we have everything we need. He's basically confessed to everything slam dunk. We're gonna get a super dangerous criminal off the streets. This is great. Yeah. But let's talk about these three days of interrogation. I'm sure this isn't a huge surprise that we're going down this road. And that photo. So during these days, from the moment they got the photo, they of course, were investigating it because, you know, most of the time you get a photo. You say that's the person that's it because it's the person or if you have to look into it, maybe it's not the person, right? So it's not like it was blurry. So they show the photo to multiple friends of Janice as well as her mother. Everyone confirms that it's not her. It would later be discovered during this investigation that the photo was from 1956 of a young girl named Arlene Franco from after her prom. And they identified the girl they bring her the photo and she says this is me. And I don't know any of these people. Whoa, okay. She's like I probably threw that photo out. So, during interrogation, George says that he was being threatened and felt that he couldn't leave until he gave them what they wanted. And all the while, they just kept assuring him that he would be fine if he just told them what happened. And he knew what they wanted him to tell. Because basically, if you said what the saying was the truth, they basically said, That's not true. We know more. You know, how long do you want this to go on for basically, they have Trent it's not filmed, but there are transcripts. And it's pretty clear from the transcripts that he was led. The officer would say things like, where did you take her? And he was right the alley. And then they would say, You mean home, right? And he'd go, yeah, home. And then they said, home or the basement, and he goes the basement. You know, anyway, it's so ridiculous and things like that. He repeatedly gives them wrong information that they have to correct when he's trying to, quote unquote, confess. They asked him where to find one of the murder weapons for one of the victims, and they forced him to give a location when he finally gives one, of course, it's not there. They never find this murder weapon. His prints are not on any of the scenes. And when he's asked about the girls, he identifies Emily, as Shannon says, Mum, because he's just showing their pictures and he says he's never seen them before. So he just saw her with like glasses. And he was like, oh, that's her mom. Yeah, that's the girls like killed. So he must identify as one of the weapons used as the, as one of the attacks as a knife, when in fact, it was a mechanical pencil that the assailant was holding to the girl's neck. He just said it was a knife to scare her. And then then he's like, oh, yeah, it was a pencil. You're right. It wasn't a knife. And it was my pencil. Like, that's not an easy thing to mistake. The button that was taken from the jacket is never identified as his it does not match the jacket he was wearing, you know, hours later, when they found him sitting outside. They never find any of his clothing to match the button on the jacket. When he's asked about the attack, he just grabs non existent stab wounds and has to be corrected. And immediately after being arrested and realizing what was actually happening. He of course, we can't at all of his confessions, saying, you know, this is not what I thought was this was, but by then we all know, it doesn't matter. It's just your word against ours now. Right? So we'll talk about what happens in the case with him against against him with Emily and Janice in a second. But let's just finish George's full journey first, because he will be bowing out of our story in a minute. But George is the surviving victim of this horrendous crime. So he deserves a little bit of a moment here too. So he's cleared of the double murder, which we'll talk about when we get back to their story. But he's held the entire time pending to other charges. So he's first tried for the murder of many admins, the 46 year old, it ends up in a hung trial. They just get deadlocked and so they just missed. Then he's tried for the assault and attempted rape of elbow Barreiro. The first trial ends up getting thrown out for lawyer misconduct. Everything is reassigned and then the second trial is set for March 21st 1966. And Georgia is found guilty actually. Okay. They appeal the decision, of course, and it would be this case that would help get the landmark June 13 1966 decision on Miranda versus Arizona, that would create the Miranda laws. In the Miranda decision is referenced in the following footnote, quote, this isn't the end of the Miranda loss. Okay. Interrogation procedures may even give rise to false confession. The most recent conspicuous example occurred in New York in 1964, when a young man of limited intelligence confessed to too brutal to two brutal murders and a rape which he had not committed. When this was discovered, the prosecutor was reported as saying, call it what you want. Brainwashing, hypnosis, fright. They made him give an untrue confession. The only thing I don't believe is that Whitmore was beaten and quote, so it's in the Miranda laws this this case. So this was a pretty landmark one. Wow. So George would be cleared a month later after this Miranda decision on July 13 1966. And he's released on bond until the bond is revoked in 1972. Six years later, it's not clear why I think if that's just kind of how it worked, but he returns to prison until he's exonerated officially on April 10 1973. So he returned to prison for it looks like about a year, a little less than a year. He moves back to Wildwood New Jersey and lives out his days there. He's awarded $500,000 from the city of New York, and he ends up passing away at a nursing home on October 8 2012. He was survived by six children. He was 68 years old. So that's the end of his story. But why was he cleared of the murders of Emily Hoffer and Janice Wiley in 1964? Yeah. So, October 8 1964, a man named Roberto Cruz del Valle. You don't have to remember that. Okay, he is killed, unfortunately. So, you know, that sounded rude, maybe that you'd have to remember that. But you don't have to remember that in reference to this case. Okay. He's killed by Nathan Delaney in a drug deal gone wrong. And Delaney is subsequently arrested. He's been in jail before they know him. It wasn't hard to find him. He says when he's arrested, though, that he knows who killed those girls back then. And it was not George Whitmore who is currently arrested for the crime. But if they want any information from him, he wants full immunity. So they agree to try I never find out if he gets full immunity, but I'm sure they did something for him get some kind of deal. So he says that his like druggie friend, Ricky Robles came to his place on August 28 1963, which is the day of the crime and he was soaked in blood. And he said, he adjust quote, iced to dame's. Okay, okay. That is the only quote from the case that sounds like that. We'll get to the article later. But that's expect more of that. Okay. All right. I'm excited. Yeah. So he also asked him at that time, when he confessed to this, he asked him if sperm can be traced in someone's body because he, you know, been sexual with them, or with one of them. And he said that he was breaking and entering to score money for drugs at the time. He didn't think anyone was home, but he found the girl in bed, and that he attacked her, he raped her. And then the girl with glasses showed up. So he attacked her. And they were arguing, and she said, that the girl said, The Girl with Glasses said to him that they would ID him and send them back to jail. So he panicked, attack them with the coke bottle. By the way, some articles had coke, and some said it's Pepsi. I don't think it's relevant. But I just wanted
Unknown:to point anyone to call me out. Right? There was still at sale, actually. Yeah.
Matt Molinaro:But the soda bottle, and then he stabbed them both in a panic. And then it's interesting that he confessed his about this guy, Ricky Robles, because Ricky Robles is not someone who's uncommon to the police. He's not even someone uncommon to them for this specific matter. Okay, it's a matter of fact, Ricky Robles was interviewed pretty early on. He had a rap sheet, and he was in the area. And he had just been released from prison earlier that year. So he was an early suspect. In September 19. Business his rap sheet at the time of the crime. He in September 1959, had pistol whipped a woman. He was 17 years old. Yikes. The next year, he was arrested for theft. And at the time of his arrest, he confessed to doing over 100 Breaking and Entering is whether that was true or not, but that was his words. He was sentenced for the theft. And he gets paroled in 1963, three years later, at 20 years old. And yeah, that's that's why he was on their radar. He said at the time, when they questioned Him because they didn't question him. He said that at the time his job was closed at the factory that he worked at. But he was doing lots of cleaning work at his mom's apartment, because when she saw he was off, she really put him to work. Yeah. And so she had several tenants, he lived with her. She had several tenants from the building confirmed remembering seeing them work that day. They also they remember was that day because of the Martin Luther King's speech. And they remember watching it and like talking about it in the hallways with the neighbors and seeing him washing the stairs and whatnot. So the cops heard that and said, Okay, you're good. And that was all that Ricki rope was at the time. All right, they never spoke to him again until after this, this tip. Okay, so they just had to set up a sting operation at Nathan's place now that he's released from prison. They released him, and they bug his apartment for a couple of weeks, I think. And eventually they get Ricky to come by a couple times, you know, to score trucks. And at some point, he starts to let his guard down, and they're all chilling and they're getting high. And he spills the details of the crime, including details like the open bottle of Nakashima that he used and like how the one of the knives have broken in one of their backs. So yeah, they arrest him. Within two weeks of this they have everything they need all like If your ducks in a row, they arrest him. And of course, he denies everything. He's found guilty of the murders of both Janice and Emily on December 1 1965. Okay sentenced to life in prison. Luckily for him, the death penalty had just been abolished months earlier. So he remained in prison maintaining his innocence. But after several failed appeals, he confessed and said, Yeah, I did it. So, in prison, he finally says yes, and he shows remorse for what he did. He admits that it was supposed to be a breaking or entering and much of what the the informant had said had been True. He said he panicked. This is a quote from him. She said, I'm going to remember your face and tell the police and send you back to jail. I was tying them up and getting ready to leave. Emily Hoffart made a threat and I exploded, it went past my thinking centers. My mind was like a ping pong ball. I just blacked out and I panicked. And so in my mind, you're like still blaming the victim? Right? Because, yes, had she not said that. They would have been fine. He's saying it was hurtful, right. And then interview in 2016. He's 73 years old at that time. He says, When I was in the streets, I never thought I'd be a killer. There's a realistic controlling probability. I will be here until I die. And the last thing about this is that I read on Wikipedia that he was released on parole in May of 2020. At the time, he was one of the New York's longest standing inmates serving a term over 50 years. And I couldn't find details of why or how he was paroled. But I did confirm on the correctional facilities inmate database that he was at that he is officially on parole, and released as of May 21 2020. So Oh, yikes. A few interesting sort of media related facts about this case is that the TV show Kojak is based off of a TV show movie in 1973, called the Marcus Nelson murders. And based wholly on this case, madmen did an episode referencing this specific murder that happens during the same time, and a novel called The killings. fictionalized has the case. And a sad detail is that Max, Janice's father, while he did live to seek justice for his daughter, and it did see the killer be put away. He unfortunately does die by suicide in 1975 at the age of 71. So it's not clear as to what led to that, but most people that knew him, he knows suppose that what he had to see on this day, when he came upon his daughter never, never left. Even Yeah, even with all the work he did afterwards to try to get justice. So that is the story of the career girls murder and the incarceration and subsequent exoneration of George Whitmore Jr. Wow,
Enn Burke:great job.
Matt Molinaro:Thank you. What? Let me
Voiceover:wild Okay,
Matt Molinaro:let me give you these quotes from this article to try to to line this up. This is how this article was written direct quotes. He cased the pad and got curved on the girls. He gained legal or illegal access and tried to promote some woof woof. What shot went way back then? For seven years anyway. Vanity Fair.
Enn Burke:No, Vanity Fair.
Matt Molinaro:I know on here. Here's an instructions he has given. Rouse local burglars roust local junkies print check every snake you brace. Check the girls friends, jump on the girls love lives. Don't forget the psycho women. Maybe there's a lesbo motive.
Enn Burke:When was this written?
Matt Molinaro:Are you ready? I want you to guess. Okay.
Enn Burke:The crimes were in the 60s Right? I'm gonna say late 80s.
Unknown:Are you ready for this?
Enn Burke:I swear to God if it's after the year 2000 I'm gonna be so mad.
Matt Molinaro:Hold on to your hats. Oh, God. I'm pretty positive as 2017 Seven shot teen. Ah, I'll send you the link. Yep, it is. I'm pretty sure 2017 There was more he refers to. Actually, I'm not even gonna tell you. I want you to tell me to this his. He says Jack the Kay made us laugh. He was good scotch and cigars. We remembered him at Mass. Who's Jack? Okay.
Unknown:I have no I have no idea. John F Kennedy. Goodbye. Okay, moving on.
Matt Molinaro:He also said George's brother Shelly, and two other cats arrived East sola, as the officer told off for cats to beat it. Why do they want to be cats?
Enn Burke:He really thought this Vanity Fair article was gonna launch his like spy thriller. career. I got a novelist. I
Unknown:got one last one and it's it's a doozy. Are you ready?
Enn Burke:Probably not. But yes. Okay.
Matt Molinaro:He sifted pocket debris and hit two photos of white girls. One picture two chicks in a Pontiac ragtop a bitch and blonde posed atop the backseat.
Enn Burke:That is such a disrespectful way to describe God. Wow,
Matt Molinaro:I can't even i i so glad I wasn't drinking a beverage when I was reading this article. I would have absolutely ruined my laptop. But yeah, it was it had a lot of information. And so he was going for something. He's actually so I looked him up. He's a crime writer.
Enn Burke:Yeah, this is like his career.
Matt Molinaro:He's like he writes crime novels. I think. So. I guess. That's his. It's a creative choice.
Enn Burke:But but don't. I feel like there's a way to bring it bring creativity into journalism in a respectful way. And then there's a way that sensationalizes and that seems very sensationalizing to me.
Matt Molinaro:Yeah. Yeah. And he even he kind of writes it from a first person perspective. Like, he speaks on behalf of New York at the time. Like he says, like, we made a lot of mistakes, but he's not a police officer. But he's referring to the police officers mistakes and saying, like, we made a lot of mistakes, like it's just a little it's, it's long, too, because wow. And if it's like a whole piece, sure. Yeah, please let me tell you, but anyway, so that's, that's That's it.
Enn Burke:Good job. Researching the cases and also good job making it through that article itself.
Matt Molinaro:Let me tell you, it was Hamilton. Now. What would you what would you rate the episode for watch ability?
Enn Burke:Watch ability. D. It wasn't the worst, but I definitely checked the clock a few times while I was taking my notes.
Unknown:Okay. Okay. My mind is a TBD Yeah. lol oh my god by LMFAO. Okay, I'm gonna stop. Oh, but what about how you think it related to this particular crime?
Enn Burke:I mean, okay, I guess like, see, ish. Yeah, I didn't, I will say I didn't love, of course, the way that they handled disability on the show, so that was not great. But the plotline itself, the kind of way it followed these cases is, I guess, okay. Yeah, I don't know.
Matt Molinaro:I just see plus from what you described, and I'll abridge it if I need to when I watch it. Okay. Feels like it has enough elements of this case to feel true to true to form. Yeah. And the elements that are included aren't incorrect. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see.
Enn Burke:Well, ripped from the headlines is an indie podcast. So if you enjoy listening to us and think that other folks might listen to us and enjoy it, the best thing you can do is to rate and review our podcast wherever you are listening to our episodes, agreed,
Matt Molinaro:and you're probably a lot more popular than me and a lot less annoying. So tell your friends and I'm pretty sure they would love to listen to our podcast to
Enn Burke:our social media is ripped headlines on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram or emails, rift headlines pod@gmail.com. And we do love getting emails from you. So feel free to send us a note to say hi,
Matt Molinaro:and check out our website at ripped headlines pod.com There is so much content on there guys, I am up to date, every episode as it comes out, you can go up there, and then you can see a picture at least one photo for each episode relating to the case you can kind of get an idea what we're what we're going for there. So check it out. And while you're there, check out our Patreon which has some great perks and you can get the joy of supporting us your favorite podcast.
Enn Burke:And also a percentage of our Patreon proceeds gets donated to the Equal Justice Initiative. So by supporting us you are supporting positive change in the world.
Matt Molinaro:Thank you so much for listening to right from the headlines where you get the facts and some fiction.
Enn Burke:We will see you next week and until then stay out of the headlines.
Matt Molinaro:Bye
Unknown:bye