In this week's episode, I talk to fantasy author Sharon Turner, who has written the 10-book series Kingdom of Durundal. We discuss her process, how she approached writing such a long series, and her tips for writers wanting to attempt the same.
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[Writing Sparrow theme]
Sarina: Hello, and welcome to the Writing Sparrow podcast. I'm Sarina Langer, and this podcast is all about writing, publishing, and marketing your book. You can find transcripts on my website at sarinalanger.com. Let's get started.
Sarina: Good morning, and welcome back friends and Sparrows. It's the 24th of May, 2021. This is Episode 37. Today, I'm talking to fantasy author Sharon Turner about how to write a whopping 10-book series. Welcome to my podcast, Sharon.
Sharon: Well, hello, good morning to you as well.
Sarina: I'm very excited about this, because as I've just mentioned to you before we started recording, I thought about writing a longer series, well, longer than a trilogy, for a while because some of my favorite books like [00:01:00] The Sword of Truth series, I think that has 17 books in it, so it's something that I love reading. I think once you fall in love with the world building and the characters, you want more. But tackling it, I think as an author is a very different problem to just writing, say, a trilogy. So, I can't wait to hear what you've got to tell us today.
Sharon: [laughs] Okay. Well, I’ll say that my 10-book series, it didn't start off as a 10-book series. I started it as, “I was going to just do a trilogy.” [crosstalk]
Sarina: See, that's what I was going to ask. First, whether you knew right away that you would end up with 10 books eventually, because I think that's quite a big commitment to start with. [chuckles]
Sharon: Yeah. No, it's sort of a bit like a tree, it's become my little acorn tree. I just started off with this little idea, which was my acorn, and then it's sort of grown and grown. At the moment, I think it's the end, and it probably will be the end [00:02:00] how it's finished just now, so it probably will stay as 10. But I might just go and possibly, maybe start another series actually, with the characters that I've now sort of ended on, they're-- [crosstalk]
Sarina: It's tempting, isn't it?
Sharon: [chuckles] -so I might do that. But then, I might do something else completely different, murder mystery or something. [crosstalk] A completely different genre. Yeah.
Sarina: I think when you have a continuous story, then it makes sense to just have an actual end to it with sooner or later. Because presumably, you're slowly working towards something, so it makes sense that it eventually comes to an end.
Sharon: Yes. In fact, the last two that I've written are almost like the prequels to the Kingdom of Durundal series. It's a bit like Star Wars. Somebody said it's like Star Wars. Not that I know much about Star Wars, but somebody said that’s what Star Wars did. [00:03:00] They did Star Wars 1, then the later ones are almost like the prequels. That's what my last two are really, because they're Vikings. Some of the characters then you see in the-- so I'm sort of introducing some of the characters into the main bulk of it.
Sarina: See, I love reading a prequel after I've read the main series because I love then getting all that background information.
Sarina: Normally, readers will probably want before they start the main series, but I really like having all those extra answers once I've already tried to figure things out for myself.
Sharon: Yes. And particularly the last books, my book 9, which is called Severn, that's the name of my character, well, he actually then goes on to play quite a pivotal character in the main first few books. So, when you read the end of Severn, [00:04:00] all my reviews are all the shock twist at the end.
Sarina: Ooh, I love a good shock twist.
Sharon: [crosstalk] They are just amazed at who he turns out to be.
Sarina: Well, that's sold it to me, I'm going to have to read those.
Sharon: Severn now. Well, you’ll have to read them in order to find out--
Sarina: Oh, yeah, of course. [laughs]
Sharon: [crosstalk] -but then read Severn to see how he started.
Sarina: Just tell me, are there more shocking twists throughout the series?
Sharon: A few, just a few.
Sarina: That’ll do. [giggles]
Sharon: Yeah, there is enough-- [crosstalk] [laughs] My daughter used to say to me, I've got to kill off a few more. I have to kill off all these sorts of-- sometimes I don't want to kill them off because I love them. I begin to actually love my characters and they're like my friends. But then, I think, “Oh gosh, it makes a bit more of an impact.”
Sarina: Well, I think that's a sign that you've really got to know your characters and you really know who you're writing. It's a good sign of very strong character development, so that's not a bad thing, but it doesn’t-- [00:05:00]
Sarina: [crosstalk] --when you have to kill them.
Sharon: I know. It's so sad, isn't it that you have to do that? But yes, I do kill off my characters.
Sarina: Well, if it makes sense, I always think if it makes more sense for a character to die than it would make for them to survive, than let them die.
Sharon: Let them die.
Sharon: I because I know it's fantasy because I have to put that genre because it's like a fantasy world. Although, most of the books, apart from my Sorceress of the Sapphire, it could happen, but it's because I've got this fantasy world. But in Sorceress of the Sapphire, that becomes a bit more magical. That's why it's more of a historical fantasy that as well, but I have to label it as, as well now.
Sarina: Okay, well, that sounds very intriguing.
Sarina: You mentioned something about how you've compared to book to an acorn, like a whole tree [00:06:00] has sprouted out of it, and that's how it's grown. Is that how you realize that it had more books in the series than just the three?
Sarina: It just kept growing?
Sharon: Yes, it did. Yeah, and then the characters, it really is like an oak tree, because of all the different characters. Some of them are strong characters, with lots of little things coming off, but some of them aren't quite so strong, and they might just disappear. At the time of writing, I don't know who the strong ones are going to be. I do have an idea in my head, but sometimes they just grow into this stronger character, and then more come off that as well. It just grows and grows and grows. [crosstalk]
Sarina: You have multiple points of views as well?
Sharon: More points of views, as in what do you mean by that?
Sarina: As in you have more than just the one narrating character?
Sharon: Well, yes, yes, [00:07:00] definitely.
Sarina: See, then once you start doing that, you really open yourself up to the potential of having even more books, because the more characters you start writing as the main characters, the more you get to know them, and then the more you realize just how much story they all individually might have to tell. It happens very easily.
Sharon: Well, because Sorceress of the Sapphire starts off with the son of one of the main characters in the first few books. I wrote that in the first person, all my other ones have been written in the third person. I wrote this in the first person, which was quite hard. It's really hard to do. [crosstalk]
Sarina: It is. Now, I tend to gravitate more towards third person when I write. When I read, I don't really mind as long as it's done well as with anything when you read. But when I write, I definitely gravitate more towards writing third person. First person, I find quite hard, because you almost feel like you're making it more about yourself, because you're constantly going, “I do this. I do that.”
Sharon: Yes, [00:08:00] it is. You tend to lean towards going in the past tense, or do you stay in the present tense? It's quite difficult to keep it going all the way through.
Sarina: But then, that's where your editors come in, and they can say, “You swapped tense. Fix it, fix it.” [laughs]
Sharon: I actually got two editors on that one, actually, to make sure it was right.
Sarina: Because sometimes it's necessary.
Sharon: Because I just wasn't sure. I teach English as well, but I just thought I need more input here.
Sarina: And you can't see everything yourself anyway. I think you always think that because it's your book, it should be quite obvious where the mistakes are, but you just gloss over them, because it makes sense in your head, so you just don't see things. I always refer back to the horse that I had in my first book, which changed gender halfway through, and then I think it changed gender again.
Sarina: You know what? I had 12 beta readers, and only 2 of [00:09:00] them noticed it.
Sarina: It just goes to show how hard these things can be to spot, you just don't.
Sharon: No. Yes, I did. Even then, even having two editors with Sorceress of the Sapphire, once it had been written, and goodness, I released that last year sometime, but it was only a couple of months ago that somebody I had put-- Oh, his nieces, I talked about that in the book-- the main character’s nieces, when actually it was the cousins. I got it wrong, and so did the editors. [crosstalk]
Sarina: Those are things that are really hard to spot, I think.
Sarina: To be fair, every book still has a few mistakes in it.
Sarina: Even the big traditional ones because there's always something that slips through, you can't see everything.
Sharon: Yeah. I'm sure that I read George R. R. Martin Game of Thrones one, and I can't remember which it was [00:10:00] but, and I probably could never find it again, there was a second line repeated.
Sharon: [crosstalk] -books are so big, how could anybody get that spot on? I know he's got probably thousands of readers doing that, but even so, it's just so much to take on.
Sarina: Yeah. How do you tackle a project as big as a 10-book series? Although, of course, you've already said that you didn't plan them to begin with as being 10 books, but what was your thought process for planning them all?
Sharon: Yeah, well, I think by the time I got to the third one, because for the first ones, I got A Hare in the Wilderness, A Wolf in the Dark, A Leopard in the Mist, A Stag in the Shadows, then I got Moth. I liked the animals because they're all animal totem names, and that's where I've got the names from. The first one, A Hare, is actually her totem. Then a Wolf is the same, is the main character, that was his totem, and [00:11:00] then the Leopard. I just quite wanted then to then have five books then, sort of like a totem animal that represents their characters. All those names are representative of the characters.
After I got to the trilogy, I thought, “Oh, no, I want five.” Five became the number then. Something like five, that's the magic number. I thought, “No, I'm going to stick to that, stick to that one.” I did all my totem names, and I got all the characters because when you're writing a kingdom, you can have as many characters as you want in your kingdom-
Sarina: Oh, yeah. [giggles]
Sharon: -and there's so many people, the kings, and everybody. Then, just Ajeya’s journey really, in my book one. But then, it got to the end of A Moth and I thought, “Oh, I don't really want to end it here. I just don't.” That's why I then had the Sorceress of the Sapphire, which is three books, that is three books. [00:12:00] I wanted to bring in a bit more magic and fantasy, and make it a bit more unbelievable, because the era that I write in, the medieval sort of era, that 9th, 10th century, they were so fascinated with witches and folklore and shamans, and all of that. So, I wanted to discuss that a bit more. Then, obviously, with the last two, Severn, and Sable, those are the prequels that they then link up to the beginning. It's like a circle that’s going around.
Sarina: Did you find when you were writing it that there was a lot of lore and history that you couldn't explain in the main series, and then that's how your prequels came about?
Sharon: Yes. There's that as well. [crosstalk]
Sarina: Because that's why I ended up writing my prequel because I had so much lore that I couldn't logically explain in my main trilogy, that I thought, “I'm either going [00:13:00] to have a prequel, and then people can get the information that way, or we'll just never have the answers.”
Sharon: Yes, because otherwise, you don't want it to fall flat where you have a bit like what happened-- I don't know if you watch Game of Thrones, but the last series was a Game of Thrones was just so bad because it was so rushed. I just think that no author now-- I know it wasn't George Martin's fault, it was the program, but nobody wants that now, because it is just so bad to really rush things, so that's why you have to write another three books really to explain it all.
Sarina: The good thing is that we learned something from it. I think we all learned something from that.
Sharon: Yes, definitely.
Sarina: We all learned how not to wrap a series.
Sharon: Oh, gosh, I know. [laughs] Yes, we’ll never see it again, will we--[crosstalk] [laughs] because we saw it first--[crosstalk]
Sarina: [laughs] What would you say were your biggest challenges just anywhere writing this big series? [00:14:00]
Sharon: Oh, God, just writing. We've talked about authors who are quite inspirational, because they can write very fast and they churn it out very, very quickly. I don't know how they do that. I just don't. When I get to 70,000 words, I'm like, “Oh, my God.” I don't think I could do 150,000 words one. I just don't think I could. I think I have a figure in mind as well what I want to get to, usually round about 80,000 words. [crosstalk]
Sarina: That's normally where I set my goal, but I found just over the last two years or so that I'm really bad at writing longer drafts for some reason. Most of my drafts, my first draft seemed to come in around 50,000, 60,000 which isn’t ideal because I then have to do a lot of editing to it, but yeah. Fingers crossed the current one is going better. [00:15:00] It seems to be a sweet spot for some reason that I can't quite get past. Yeah.
Sharon: [laughs] Yes. I get to round about the 70,000 mark. Although with the Leopard in the Mist, which was my third book, that's nearly 90,000 words, but I think I had more characters in that. I was bringing in all the characters. So, that book was really quite pivotal to bringing in all the characters and the stories that were then going to then spin off of that, which then led on to the next seven books.
Sarina: And if you thought at the time that the third book would be the last one until you got to the end, you must have had all those other plot strings to tie up, so that I suppose would also have added quite a bit.
Sharon: Yes. That's another reason why there's probably 10, because when you’ve got more characters coming in, it's just more happening. There's just so [00:16:00] much more happening in that book that it doesn't spin off. Yeah, like what you were just saying, we don't want to just wrap it up really quickly and leave it a bit of, oh, that has to really go on to more books to give a nice satisfying feel to it, that it's all been addressed and it's a much smoother ending rather than, ooh, do a off-a-cliff job.
Sarina: If there's just that much to the plot, then what you're going to do? Write 10 books, I suppose.
Sharon: Yes, or 17, maybe.
Sarina: Or 17.
Sarina: I just wanted to quickly throw in what you just said about us having talked about authors who write very quickly, that's before we started recording, so you haven't missed anything.
Sharon: [laughs] Oh, right, yes.
Sarina: All good. You didn't know. You didn't skip anything. You didn't fall asleep listening, I hope.
Sharon: I hope not.
Sarina: We were discussing that before we started the interview.
Sarina: Okay. We have two questions [00:17:00] that I had in from Instagram from @fangs.and.light. The first one being, what's the best way to plan to avoid continuity errors? Because I can see continuity errors possibly be quite a big issue when you have something as big as that. I mean I have continuity errors just now just between two chapters, because I keep forgetting what time it is or what season it is.
Sharon: Well, for me, whatever book I'm doing, I have to write all those main things down. I even have to write their ages down, and what month I think they could have been born, because that has an impact then on how old they are. So, you have to address that through seasons and things like that, because readers do pick up on that. Some of my beta readers, when I was first writing, some of them were saying, “How can that be? How can she just be da, da, da?” Then, I have to bring in things that show how old my characters are. [00:18:00] You just write everything down the names, I have to keep a list of all the names I've done. In fact, at the back of my books, I do have a whole index of the characters names, for me as well, as well for the readers.
Sharon: [crosstalk] - to look at. In case I lose my bit of paper or something, I'm like, “Oh, yeah, that's their name.”
Sarina: Do you keep your lists and all those details in a notebook? Or, do you prefer to keep everything digital?
Sharon: No, in a notebook, actually. Yeah.
Sarina: I do as well. I'm a big notebook author.
Sharon: Yes. I've still got all my bits of paper just in my cupboard, it sort of feels more organic to me, it feels more real somehow. I quite like that, to have it all just written down that I could just look at, because I like the way [crosstalk] Yeah, so you've got little notes in a corner somewhere. There's something scribbled out. I like to actually then go back and look at that, what name [00:19:00] did I first start with? And how did it change? And how did I come to this? And I quite liked that process, where it's just little notes and circles around and underlined, and all that, but yeah, everything is written down. Every single part is written, and I have to make sure I keep everything on track. Yes.
Sarina: Do you have a space set aside in your notebook for all those important details, because the problem that I run into quite often and I'm sure @fangs.and.light does as well, is that I have lots of little bits of important information but in different parts of my notebook. When I then try to find something, I have to page through it quite a lot until I eventually find it and then it was, “Oh, I have something else I know that I completely forgot about.”
Sharon: Yes. [crosstalk]
Sarina: Which I should probably have considered.
Sharon: Yes. I am probably a bit more like that where I'm-- it is all over the place. Yes, it's not in any sort of order, but then I do quite like that as well because it [00:20:00] shows my process again. It becomes my acorn tree again, things growing, things are discarded, and then something else goes in its place, so I quite like looking back on the process as well.
Sarina: That's a really lovely comparison, I think, with the acorn and the tree.
Sharon: [crosstalk] -seed of knowledge, it's just a little seed of knowledge and it grows into something amazing.
Sarina: Unlike you, I quite like a messy notebook, I think it's quite satisfying and shows just how chaotic the process really can be.
Sharon: It really is.
Sharon: It is. There's no getting away from it. It is not a straight path, but it is just, woo, all over the place. Good days, bad days, can’t [unintelligible [00:20:44].
Sarina: Yeah. And then, sometimes maybe you're out on a walk or something, you just quickly think of something and think, “Oh, well, that will be great.” So, you just quickly added on whatever page you're on, and you'll never find it again.
Sharon: Yes. [00:21:00]
Sarina: Maybe we should try to hold each other accountable with that and say, you know what? We're going to set extra space aside in our notebook, we're going to mark it with something colorful.
Sarina: [crosstalk] Then, next time we need to remind ourselves how old this character is, or how long this person has been pregnant for already, we can easily get back to that, and we don't need to leaf through it for an hour.
Sharon: Yes. I think we should color coordinate it, actually. There should be colors as well.
Sarina: Well, that I already do. It's just all throughout the notebook.
Sharon: Okay, so you've got a rainbow in yours as well.
Sharon: As well as scribbling all over the book. Well, you most probably [unintelligible [00:21:35] same way, I just underline everything, yeah, so I know that [crosstalk] this is important.
Sarina: It's a pretty, colorful mess, but it makes sense to me until I need to find something specific.
Sharon: Yes. [laughs]
Sarina: The second question from @fangs.and.light is this, what's the best way to keep the series as engaging as in the beginning?
Sharon: Hmm, [00:22:00] yes. I would say with each character that you bring in-- because the characters that then have a pivotal place later on, are probably just a little subsidiary character, sort of earlier on and to make them believable and real, and to create empathy with that character. It depends on what genre you're going to write, so for me with my fantasy genre. Having said that, a character is a character, you just have to make it believable. Regardless you're writing a crime or romance, it's the character that's important. Yeah, I concentrate on the character development, really. Yes. [crosstalk]
Sarina: I think what you said about empathy is probably the most important thing, because ultimately, if your readers can't relate to your character and don't care about the character, [00:23:00] then they'll stop reading, probably.
Sharon: Yes. That’s why you have to make them as real as possible, so they'll have their flaw, they’ll have sadness in their lives, they'll have things that aren't going well, so that's what you have to get across to make them real, and to create that empathy and that bond, that the reader can think, “Oh, that's like me, I have that. I have that in my life.” Then, you’ve got that identifying platform straightaway. Sometimes, when you've got some of these characters that are just out there and unbelievable. I sometimes wonder, does that work? I don't think that works for me. I actually prefer to have a character where I find them relatable and a bit more human, really.
Sarina: Yes. No character should be completely perfect, because no one can relate to that.
Sharon: That’s right. [chuckles] Yes.
Sarina: Let them be messy. Let them [00:24:00] be beautiful messes.
Sharon: Yes, I think so. Yeah. Have chaos in their lives, just like our books, but at the end of it, they come through. Well, some die, we were talking about that as well earlier, but most of the time they come through.
Sarina: There you go.
Sharon: Believable, yes.
Sarina: I would maybe add to the question-- well, to your answer to @fangs.and.light question. Maybe just make sure that you know where you're going with every book. If you're writing 10-books series or just a duology, either way you want to keep every book that's included engaging, and as engaging as the first one. Likewise, the first book can fall flat and not be engaging at all if you don't know where you're going and if you don't know your characters. To me, the question reads a bit like maybe the author is also not quite finding it as engaging, what she's writing now [00:25:00] as the first ones, which tells me that maybe they have a bit of plotting to do, or maybe just trying to really figuring out where this book needs to go.
Sharon: A story, and particularly the characters, will have a bit of the author in them. That's where you are, that's why you have to keep your characters real and have that empathy because if you draw from yourself possible certain experiences, and you don't have to be ancient to be able to write a story. Even young people have had experiences, they just have. You just draw on those experiences to make your characters real, because then there's a part of the author in every character. Sometimes, I look at some of my hideous really bad characters, and I'm thinking, “My goodness, is it me in that?”
Sharon: [crosstalk] -my anger and my frustration coming through in a character.[00:26:00]
Sarina: To summarize, @fangs.and.light, make sure you know where you're going with the story and throw in all of the empathy and just make sure that your characters are relatable.
Sharon: Yes, definitely.
Sarina: If you don't care, neither will your readers. So, if you feel like something is missing, there probably is something missing.
Sharon: Yes. If they're just two dimensional, then it'll lack emphasis, and it will lack luster. [crosstalk]
Sarina: And that won't be very nice to write or to read.
Sharon: That's right. It becomes boring then, doesn't it? It becomes wooden. You want to make it like our acorn tree, [crosstalk] and full.
Sarina: Yeah, if you start to think of the acorn tree.
Sharon: That's what all writers should do, just acorn, acorn tree. There we go.
Sarina: Problem solved. [laughs]
Sharon: [crosstalk] -everything.
Sarina: Then, to wrap things up, my last question. What's [00:27:00] the number one thing to consider when we want to write a longer series?
Sharon: I think, really, just put-- everything that we've talked about, just put that together, and to maybe have a goal in mind and plan it. I think if you go on a journey, you don't just drive to your journey and your destination. You plan it. You plan your journey, and where you're going to stop off and which route you're going to take, etc. There's so many things. I think you need to plan your writing like you plan a journey. You write your little stops down, where you're going to take on fuel, where you're going to get your inspiration from, and how you're going to keep that going. How you're going to keep that inspiration going? What are you going to put in place? While I’m putting petrol in your car, how are you going to keep that inspiration going? And that could be a number of things, reading more books, going for a walk, just so many things. But yeah, plan your writing like you plan a journey.
Sarina: That's what I always compare it to. If you go for a drive, or maybe not just a drive, but if you go on a journey, as you said, you probably know where you want to go, because otherwise you're just driving aimlessly. Then, you're just burning petrol for no reason. And we don't have that kind of money, Sharon. [chuckles]
Sharon: That’s right.
Sarina: Likewise, if you drive past something and you think, “That looks nice,” maybe you'll stop off and see what that's about.
Sarina: You can, and you should, I think, approach writing a book in much the same way, know where you're going, but don't be afraid to stop off on the roads and just see what happens.
Sharon: Yes, exactly that. You never know what you're going to find. Yeah, it keeps it interesting. Yes.
Sarina: I just quickly wanted to come back to something you mentioned just now about inspiration and keeping that going [00:29:00] for all 10 books. How did you do that?
Sharon: I find my inspiration from lots of things. I do read a lot. I like going for walks in nature. I find nature very inspirational. Just to look around at the bigger picture, bring myself back to ground level. I think also when you go for walks, it allows you that time to just breathe and just empty all the stuff that's going on in your head that just gets in the way and then you can fill it with more inspiration, “Oh, that's where I want to go.” “That's what I want to do.” It does allow you to-- Yeah, just empty your mind. I think it's weird, isn't it? I think at night as well, why do we fill ourselves with things that just are so random? But if you just get out in nature, it tends to go. You just get into that kind of mindset. [00:30:00] I've never done meditation, but I think that people find that quite beneficial as well, to sort of just empty your head, so that gives room for more stuff to go in.
Sarina: See, I really second going for a walk point because I love even just taking my first tea of the day outside in the morning in our little garden, which we're very lucky to have, because I think just getting that fresh air and just being in nature is very beneficial to your mental health in general.
Sharon: Yes, yes, I think it is. Just to have that me time, as in all the time, anybody time, whatever they're doing, I think, people need that me time. Then, you can think through the-- some of my most pivotal moments have come just by walking. One of my points, I think it was in A Leopard in the Mist, I was suddenly walking, I'm thinking, “Gosh, I’ve got far too many men in there. How can I bring a woman?” [00:31:00] Then, I brought in quite a pivotal woman, that's because I was kind of doing my walk through the woods. So many things, I do find that allows me to think more, it gives me that time to just empty everything of just life stuff that's in my head that shouldn't really be there really, overthinking things, as I do. Just get in my story, which is so much better, so much nicer to have my fantasy world in my head.
Sarina: There you go. So, that's the answer. Take time to be in nature, and definitely take time to just be alone and just for yourself to recharge.
Sharon: And reflect. Reflect on what you've done, where you're going. Allow that time to digest as well as reflect.
Sarina: It doesn't have to be in nature if you don't have any of that handy, [00:32:00] you might live in a big city, but for more ideas and inspiration, check out the episode that I did with Kristina Naydonova where she talked all about how to avoid burnout and self-care because she had lots of fantastic ideas. So, if you can't go for a walk and you don't fancy meditation, although I do recommend it, check that out.
Sharon: [crosstalk] -probably. Most people have a park, don’t they, would you say?
Sarina: Yeah, I think most areas probably have one though. Whether it's a nice quiet place, is probably another issue.
Sharon: [crosstalk] Ideally, I'd like to just walk on the beach, but obviously I don't live near the beach, so I've got a nice walk across the road. Yes.
Sarina: There you go. I think just fresh air can make a big difference.
Sharon: I think so. I know it's so simple and easily accessed. [crosstalk]
Sarina: I think we do tend to neglect it very easily, especially in winter when it's too cold to open a window.
Sharon: I know. [00:33:00] Yes. I suppose loads of people have got other ideas. It's really interesting to hear what people do.
Sarina: Yeah, do share them with us, get in touch on Instagram. I'll be linking to both of us in the show notes. Let us know what you do to recharge and keep your inspiration going for your next 10-book series. We love to hear it.
Sharon: Yes, I'd be really interested. I'm fascinated with how people work and what drives them, keeps them going.
Sarina: Well, there you go. I think that's a fantastic place to wrap up on before my internet dies again, as it did rudely a second ago. [chuckles] Thank you so much for reaching out to me in the first place to do this interview. Thank you for being here twice because as I said, my internet just died. I hope I've fused everything together neatly. If I haven't, I apologize. It's my internet. [chuckles]
Sharon: Yeah, blame it on technology. Yes. [00:34:00]
Sarina: So, yep, thank you so much for meeting me. Thank you so much for answering all our questions. I've learned a lot. I hope our listeners have as well. Thank you and bye-bye. Have a wonderful day.
Sharon: Bye, then. Bye-bye.
Sarina: If you enjoyed today's episode, maybe learned something along the way, hit the Subscribe button. You can also connect with me on Twitter @sarina_langer, at Instagram and Facebook @sarinalangerwriter. And of course, on my website at sarinalanger.com. Until next time, bye.