From Seed to Table

In urban and rural communities, a variety of local food initiatives emerged in response to the absence of a just, responsive, and sustainable food economy. In this episode, Nourish by MN350 introduces one of the gems in that collection. Urban Roots is a community-based youth leadership initiative located on St. Paul’s Eastside. In this conversation, Urban Roots’ staff members Saba Andualem and Skyler Hawkins join Marita Bujold, founder of Just Food and Water, to share memorable stories from the gardens, kitchens, and markets where Urban Roots creates a vital role for youth to play in their community.

Since 1997,Urban Roots has provided year-round paid internships for youth ages 14-24 to participate in their Market Garden, Cook Fresh, and Conservation Programs. 

Together, these programs offer a learning environment in every season designed to nurture leadership, entrepreneurial and life skills. Working in partnership with the diverse community, Urban Roots is nurturing tomorrow’s leaders for the just, responsive, and sustainable food economy we need to create together. 

References: 

UrbanRootsMN.org
CLUES -Comunidades Latinas Unidas en Servicio (Communities United in Service)
Headwaters Community Food & Water Bill (HF1332/SF1580)
Lachelle Cunningham
twitter.com/urbanrootsmn
instagram.com/urbanrootsmn

Transcript

Ep 22. From Seed to Table

Tue, 4/19  8:00AM • 55:12

Skyler Hawkins  00:00

So, we're learning about how does a greenhouse fit into season extension? And why does season extension matter so much in a climate like Minnesota, where we have such a short growing season? So, kind of creating a sense of place and a sense of where are we trying to do the same? Like, where are we trying to make the food grow and how do we have to do it differently to make that work?

Sarah Riedl  01:12

Hello, and welcome back to Nourish by MN350. I'm your host Sarah Riedl, communications manager at MN350 and MN350 Action where we're working to end the pollution damaging our climate, speed the transition to clean food and energy and create a just and healthy future for everyone across Minnesota, the homeland of the Anishinaabeg, Dakota and Ho-Chunk people. On today's podcast I'm excited to be sharing a conversation about Urban Roots, a St. Paul organization whose mission is to cultivate and empower youth through nature, healthy food and community. We'll be hearing from Saba Andualem, who is the Cook Fresh Program Manager, and Skyler Hawkins, the Market Garden Farm Manager at Urban Roots, and bringing us this conversation is Marita Bujold, artist, activist and creator of the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill. Marita, welcome back.

Marita Bujold  02:10

Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Sarah Riedl  02:13

So Marita, before we get into your conversation with Saba and Skyler, let's do a little background. Can you tell us a bit about Urban Roots and why you wanted to feature this particular organization?

Marita Bujold  02:25

You know, I learned about Urban Roots several years ago. But last year, I was reintroduced to their work by Saba Andualem who is one of our guests on today's episode. And I knew that Urban Roots had this long history on St. Paul’s east side, working with youth, teaching them how to grow and cook food and restore landscapes. In fact, they've been there since 1996. They've operated a year round paid internship program and train thousands of youth, ages 14 to 24. It truly has been a very successful program, community based, responsive, and I think listening to Saba, when I met with her last year, I realized that the reason they've been so successful is because of the environment that they've created. They really value the capacity of youth to learn and to contribute to the life of the community. And that was the thing that I found so intriguing about it, is about having really good design to accompany your mission and your purpose. And they've done that in every capacity for growing food, cooking it, providing youth with an opportunity to engage in community and learn from them. It's a really, truly remarkable program. And so I think it's a real privilege for us to be able to highlight their work today.

Sarah Riedl  03:51

And I just like to add that the model that Urban Roots has developed, you know, working with youth year round in gardens and kitchens, providing them with hands on experiences, and, you know, encouraging a sense of stewardship and community connection. This is exactly the type of program we're going to need more of as we transition away from a food system based on production and profit to one that is rooted in justice. So Marita, I'll turn it over to you, and Saba and Skyler, to tell us more.

Marita Bujold  04:22

So maybe we start with our introductions. So, go ahead, Saba.

Saba Andualem  04:27

Sure. Well, good morning y’all. My name is Saba Andualem. And I am the Cook Fresh Program Manager at Urban Roots. A lot of that is cooking really yummy recipes utilizing a lot of the farm produce and being creative with high schoolers on the east side of St. Paul. We get to make a bunch of recipes all the time and work with chefs and community members. So, really happy to be here.

Skyler Hawkins  04:50

And my name is Skyler Hawkins. I'm the Market Garden Farm Manager at Urban Roots. And this will be my fourth season farming there so I spend a lot of time out in the gardens with youth, out in the gardens with community members, and getting to explore a lot of different food traditions with them. So.

Marita Bujold  05:09

Well, we're so glad to have both of you here today. This is going to be a wonderful conversation. So Saba, maybe we start with you, because I'm excited to hear what happens in a community kitchen. And I've read and looked at the fabulous photos on the website. And I think there's such exciting things happening at Urban Roots. So perhaps you could start by telling us what Urban Roots does as a whole.

Saba Andualem  05:34

Urban Roots is a nonprofit on the east side of St. Paul. And we hire 75 east side high schoolers every year, we have three programs: we have a Market Garden program, the Conservation program, and a Cook Fresh program. The Market Garden program sort of shows interns that seed to sale model, so they have a lot of choice in what they're growing. And then they learn about how to sell that. In the Cook Fresh program, interns learn how to use local and fresh produce from our farms and build recipes that represent who they are, but also our nutritionally sound, because it's a lot of that seasonal recipes, or seasonal produce. And then Conservation interns learn about restoration work, so that’s, they have bees, they bike around to all of their sites, and they take out invasives and plant native plants in our natural parks in St. Paul. Outside of those three programs, we do a lot of just job skill work, like interview skills and resume building. And we really pride ourselves, too, in connecting interns to other related jobs and just kind of learning about other career options. So it's a four year internship. And then once they're done, there's an alumni track, so they can work with us still, if they want to and are interested, but I'll stay in touch if they're in school or have another job.

Marita Bujold  06:55

And Saba you're the program manager for the Cook Fresh program you mentioned. Could you tell us a little bit about that? And how it connects to the community?

Saba Andualem  07:06

Yeah, that's a great question. The Cook Fresh program, I think plays into our mission, through that community connection piece. And then, also educating the next generation on how to cook for themselves. I think knowing what the ingredients you're putting on your plate is incredibly important, and is a tool that people can use forever, right, because everyone eats. So that's a really huge part of it. And then also just a big part of our mission towards like food security, I think, because we have a farm and the kitchen, we get to work with 75, high schoolers and cook and make like healthy nutritious meals year round. Those are kind of like the three ways I see the program. And so going to that community connection piece. I've kind of mentioned this before, but the interns in the Cook program work with chefs. And so we have chefs across the Twin Cities who come to the kitchen, and they show the interns with, what they're about, like what they're making in their restaurants. And the cool part about that is the interns get to use produce from the gardens. And then the chef is like, “Okay, what produce do we have,” and then they got, they get to be creative with the chef. And then we have a Families program as well where intern families can come in share recipes that they make at home, just because there's so much wisdom on the east side already. And so those community members and the families of our interns get to share recipes, and people kind of get to taste what the other interns are eating at home on the daily. And then we, in the winter time. So you know, we're year round. And so in the summer, we're using produce all the time. But then in the winter, you know, we have like frozen tomatoes and frozen and like produce that we've kind of tried to preserve. And so winter and fall is for canning. So we do a lot of canning recipes and kind of show interns, all the creative ways you can make healthy, nutritious produce last through the year through creative cooking.

Marita Bujold  09:10

So tell us more about this wisdom from the east side. Because of course some of us who are from St. Paul know that we have quite a diverse community. And the diversity is significant on the east side. 

Saba Andualem  09:25

Oh, yeah. 

Marita Bujold  09:27

So that always translates into lots of different ethnic foods, right?

Saba Andualem  09:31

Mm hmm. So we see a lot of that with our families, but also different organizations. There's a couple things I can kind of talk about on this point. So we work with students from, like, Macalester, U of M, Metro State. And one of our student interns is working with our youth and their families and community partners on these recipe books and Sky you can jump in too, I know you're working with them as well. This is going to be a project where this intern works with five to eight families and kind of do, like, a highlight. And so we'll take that recipe and work with them. And we have translators too and then use the recipe in like spring/summer mobile markets every weekend, which is really cool.

Skyler Hawkins  10:21

I just mentioned that we'll work with community members to encapsulate a recipe that's very important to them, and invite them to share stories in an open ended way. You know, what is the story of this meal for you? And with that, I think we'll explore ingredients that are really important to this person in the family, what are meals built around, you know, what's the staple we're working with. And then, so when we have our weekly farmers market we’ll have those recipes and those stories available. So based on what ingredients are used in those recipes, and told in those stories, on the farm side of things, we're gonna try and learn as much as we can about how to grow those ingredients. So that at our weekly farmers market, we are bringing produce that's relevant to the east side, bringing food that means something to east siders and have recipes there for different people to engage in. They might be new recipes for them, but they're really meaningful to their neighbors. So.

Marita Bujold  11:16

What a wonderful way to make sure that the people actually have what they need. Where you're growing the foods that actually contribute to the people's meals every day. Your story makes me think about an experience I had going to the Hmong marketplace, which is in St. Paul, not too far from the Capitol. And I had a chance to talk with some of the farmers there who were selling their products. And they were telling me about specific plants that are grown for Hmong recipes, things I'd never seen before. And it just reminded me how much diversity and wealth of knowledge that we have in our community that in many ways, and we're just not capturing. You know, if we're not introduced to it, we don't even know it's there. So the work that you're doing helps shine a spotlight on what's actually here and what's going to bring healthy food into our family's daily diet. It's really exciting to hear that. So Skyler, maybe it's a good time for you to talk more about what the farm does, and what the interns are learning in that space.

Skyler Hawkins  12:29

My favorite part of the work I get to do is connecting to people. I get to talk about food all day long. And I think you can’t talk about food without also talking about your families and norms and stories and cultural traditions. And I think it's the quickest way to get to know somebody, is to probably talk about food. People open up without realizing they're opening up and they're talking about food and meals and cooking. Like Saba touched on, a lot of the youth come to the program with a lot of their own experiences in the garden, some youth have a lot of experience, and they're coming, knowing a lot of the things we're going to cover and can put their own twist on it, like this is how we grow stuff at home. We're doing it differently here. And there's other youth that come with not a lot of experience in a garden, it might be the first time they're planting something in the ground. So I just want to start by saying that, that the youth are coming from really different places as they enter the garden. That being said, they all participate in what we call a seed to sale model. So, in the wintertime, in our greenhouse that we are a part of in partnership with Metro State, we start all of our own transplants. So, we start, I think, with around 10,000 plants that we ended up putting in the ground in the springtime. So, we're learning about how does a greenhouse fit into season extension? And why does season extension matter so much in a climate like Minnesota, where we have such a short growing season? So, kind of creating a sense of place and a sense of where are we trying to do the same? Like, where are we trying to make the food grow and how do we have to do it differently to make that work? And in the spring and summer we're spending a lot more time out in the garden. We have one and a half acres of garden space. We grow 15,000 pounds of food each year. So we're really busy out there. We're really out there, we’re doing a lot of maintenance. We're always planting, always harvesting, and we bring our food to a lot of different places in the community too. So we have a CSA program, a 15 member CSA. We go to a farmers market later on in the summer for a few months every weekend. We bring a lot of food to CLUES on the east side. They have a campus and they have a really wonderful weekly food giveaway program called Canasta. We bring produce there every week. We bring produce to corner stores. We have our weekly mobile market where east siders can get that produce too. Youth are always a part of bringing that produce to community members who are at these different distribution sites. So that's another part of what they do. We also have a weekly green your mind program where we kind of take a break. We put the tools down. And we talk about the science behind farming, we talk about pollination, we talk about germination, we talk about how plants get the energy to do what they do every day. So, we try to make sure that we have time to just think about what we're doing, and not just do all the time. And I'll say too that, you know, we have a pretty experienced staff. They've all farmed a lot at different places. But, because we have returning interns each year, these youth are actually mentoring each other at the same time. So, the second or third year, interns can really lead the new youth, the first year youth in a lot of these lessons. And that's really cool to see too, because they know what it's like to show up at this program and not exactly know what's going on. And they can really empathize with these other youth. So, that's really cool. I'll also say that youth advise us on what to grow. Like, with the Food Stories project we were talking about, each fall, after we're done with the growing season, we all sit down together, and we say, “Okay, what did we like? What did we like to eat? What did we not like to eat? And what are we missing? Like, what do we need to grow? That we're not growing yet? What do you eat at home that we're not growing?” And based on that we plan for the following year.

Marita Bujold  16:23

You brought up so many different things to comment on, I feel like what you just described was the perfect science experiment, where you actually have people engaged in doing the work, who take time to stop and evaluate. “So what did we just do? And why did we do that? And what did we find? What was the result?” And like you said, “Okay, what did we like to eat? And what didn't we like? So what's missing? What do we want to plant now?” This model is so similar to what Indigenous peoples have been doing for 1000s of years in their spaces, where they conduct this kind of ongoing in situ research that informs what they grow, why they grow it, how they store it, how they cook it in Saba’s kitchen, right. It's just a really effective way to have a food system that's community based. It's pretty remarkable that on an acre and a half, you produce 15,000 pounds of food. And that's, I think, also pretty normal for people who are growing effectively if you look at what's happening around the world. So, you're demonstrating what we need to be doing right. This is really possible. I'm curious, Saba, Skyler mentioned about all these different ways in which the produce is being shared. So you also mentioned about food preservation. And there must be a role that's being played there for sharing meals and sharing the foods that you're preserving. Can you tell us more about that?

Saba Andualem  18:05

Yeah. So every fall, we get to assess what is the, you know, when we work with the Market Garden program a lot. So we talk to Market Garden, and we're like, what produce is left, right? Like, what, what do we have? What do we need to store and then we kind of assess that, and the interns are a part of this process. So like Sky mentioned, every year interns come back, our internship model is like, the titles of it is also like plant succession. So if your first year, you're a seed crew, second year, your grow crew, your third year back, you're a harvest crew, and then your fourth year is harvest star. So it's like with the years of high school. Basically, with the interns who return in the fall, who were there with us in the summer, they kind of get to see all this produce that's left that they also worked with, so they're familiar with it. And then we decide what the recipe is. So, we work with chefs on that as well. And also like community members and family members. And so, we really take a lot of different people who are a part of this decision making, ah, just because we want all the food we make to reflect the interns who are behind it and our community members. So, one year we were like, “Oh, we have all these peppers. Let’s make a spicy pepper jelly.” Another year, we worked with Yia Vang and made like a curry tomato jam. And we've worked with Jametta Raspberry too, on preservation recipes. So there's lots of cool creative minds on that. But to figure out those recipes, we cook it down, whether that's in our kitchen or in like our partner kitchens. So we've worked with CLUES before and like, Kitchen on the Bluff as well. And then Mississippi Market, too. So we've worked with a couple other places. But we cook it down and sometimes it's cooking down 400 pounds of tomatoes and sometimes it's cooking down more than that but we always end up with really delicious jams and jellies, and we get to use it throughout the wintertime. So I actually think the next three weeks will be cooking down, we still have frozen tomatoes. So we'll be cooking down a bunch of those and making a, we're going to do like a pasta sauce that we want to make. So, that's the plan this year.

Marita Bujold  20:18

And when I hear you talk about planning, again, that's such a key part of everything that you're doing. So, you know, if you have an acre and a half, you can look at it and say, which part is going to be for fresh produce that we're going to sell in the market? And okay, what if we do have lots of tomatoes and peppers, leftover squash, we know we have a kitchen, we know we have partners that have kitchens, so we can plan that we will have a space to do that food preservation. This is, it's such a great model that we can point to. I'm really, I've been writing notes while I've listening and thinking, “Wouldn't it be great if you could talk to our leaders who are making decisions about where to invest money?” Because this is such a great model to show not only how we work with youth to help them, grasp all these essential things, and be part of a truly sustainable system, but also, it's about the system itself, right? Where are we invested? It, this would be a great investment. Has anybody talked to you about, as a model, showing what other communities could do? Have they said, “Hey, Urban Roots come and show us? Or can we come and observe what you're doing?” Because it sounds like you've got this organized really well.

Skyler Hawkins  21:44

I think in the last couple of years, I think we have seen more of that. We talked about CLUES. And they just started a really amazing community garden at their east St. Paul campus. And they're, as community gardeners, they're exploring a lot of policy barriers that the Latin X community are encountering as they try to access more land to grow food that's relevant to them and meet their own food needs. And it's really hard. So it's amazing the spaces there. We’re really lucky to get to be a part of designing that garden with their team. And we have these specialized tools to transform some of these spaces. And for better, for worse, we've done this for many years, like almost a couple of decades. So as we know what really doesn't work by now. So it's really nice to be able to talk to other programs that are starting up and say, “Hey, just so you know, maybe start by using this tool. Maybe you don't buy this tool.” The city of Burnsville also started a program very similar to us. They got a grant and asked us to be a part of helping them think through how do we start a garden program here in Burnsville where we can help, so we can get paid youth internships going and get them involved with the growing this food and distributing it to people who need it. And since then, there's been a couple other cities, actually, that have reached out who are interested in getting a program, like are started. I know Saba was also part of the Burnsville program, lending her expertise on the cook fresh aspect, of you, know, what do we do with this produce next. Because that's a really important part of it. Okay, we grew the produce, that was really hard. We're really proud of it. But now what, how do we make this into something you want to eat? So.

Marita Bujold  23:25

And how do we prevent the waste too, right? I mean, you really have to have the facilities to be able to manage whatever is excess. Ss home gardeners understand, too. Often, they're not in a position to actually preserve all the stuff that comes out of their gardens.

Skyler Hawkins  23:43

Yeah. And if you can't find a home for all of it, how do you have an effective compost system, so at least you're creating soil out of it, not, you know, throwing it in the dump. The distribution is really hard. And I think, you know, I've heard another speaker on this podcast before talk about how farmers also need to be delivery people as well. And there's so many logistics that go into just getting produce from point A to point B, and making sure it looks really good along the way. So, something that's really helped us is Ramsey County helped us to purchase a refrigerated transit van to help us hold on to more of that food for longer. So, that if we go and pop up in east St. Paul, and we do a mobile farmers market, that food is not sitting out on the table for three hours. If we don't sell all that food, it's not wasted. We don't have to compost it. It's still refrigerated. And we can take that extra and donate it to a local food giveaway that following week, so those tools like that really allow us to make sure that all of that food is being used each week. But it's, it's so complicated.

Marita Bujold  24:48

Yeah. And you've identified really a problem that, that farmers markets have in general, right? I mean, just even having to set up outdoors in order to to sell your goods, seems, kind of crazy, if you think about it. I mean, I go to the farmers market in Midtown in Minneapolis, it's a smaller market. And, I remember the last couple of summers, there were at least half a dozen times each summer when they simply couldn't have a market because of weather. The wind was too high, and there was rain. So, there's a farmers ready to come and sell and the markets not even available. Really begs the question, in my mind, why is it that our local food systems don't actually have permanent sites that are indoors where we bring food that's being locally produced, or in Saba’s kitchen, actually preserved as well or created into meals, right? This is, in my mind, if we're going to have a robust local food system, we want to support the leadership that you're doing, the model you've created, but then have a permanent facility to make sure that it works, that the delivery system works.

Skyler Hawkins  26:05

And you mentioned the Hmong market earlier on. And it's interesting you say that, because I know they do have a really awesome part of their building, where it is sort of like that. It's sort of like there's six to eight produce vendors with fresh food that set up, like a farmers market, but it's inside during your time. That's so cool. I think there's a lot to learn from what they're doing over there. And you can use so much more of that.

Marita Bujold  26:41

So I want to go back to the kitchen part of this, because you also mentioned that you have these partnerships with other kitchens. So Saba, what do you see is the value of having connections between the kitchen that you have available and then these other kitchens? And do you see that as something that perhaps could even build greater capacity for more food preservation?

Saba Andualem  27:08

So, I don't know if you guys know this, but this last fall, we moved to a new building. And so we're on Payne Avenue now, which is awesome. Like, we have great neighbors too. And a lot of our youth, actually, are closer to that location. So, with this transition, our kitchen is still kind of being built out. And so it's really been amazing to be able to lean on our partners in this time. And I just think a lot of food policy and all the things that come into place into canning, like, if you're canning to sell, there's a lot of barriers in that process. And we, I'm sure we're not the first to talk about that. But that's been a huge learning curve. And we have been able to use these licensed kitchens and figure out what licensing we need to do that. And so, that's been a huge role, and very helpful to us this last year. But when our kitchen is done being built out, we'll have to work with Ramsey County and make sure everything's right to be able to work in our kitchen. Because also, I think kitchens that are already licensed and kind of like these spaces for different makers to come in, are so incredibly important. I don't think there could be enough, I think there's so many people who are good at what they do and good at, whether it's like canning recipes or some type of packaged foods. There's a lot of makers out there that need these licensed kitchens that also have the how tos around that readily available just because, that's a really tedious process. Ideally, it would be amazing for our kitchen to be done and it to be a space where other folks could come because we've learned that that's been really nice for us to be able to go to our partner kitchens. But so, that's that's kind of where we're at with our kitchen. And then, I've been learning a lot with the program, like what do we need for our in the building kitchen. But then also, we have a mobile food truck too, which is a new addition this year, which we're really excited because we'll be able to take the recipes that we know and bring it to our pop up markets every weekend, which would be a great place for interns to share recipes that they have learned and have created with community members.

Marita Bujold  29:19

So with the kitchens you've really identified some problems that are universal, right? When it comes to how local processing is understood and regulated.

Saba Andualem  29:32

Yeah. 

Marita Bujold  29:33

I'm just going to mention that in the industrial food system we already have 3000 additives that are in processed foods. And if you look at how those are regulated, it's all based on the corporations are trusted to identify what those are but they don't actually have to demonstrate anything about their value or any concerns, really. And meanwhile, we're regulating people on the local level, who are just trying to can a few tomatoes. Right. 

Saba Andualem  30:08

Right. Right. 

Marita Bujold  30:09

So really, that's a huge contrast. But I also think what you're telling us, essentially, is that we need more of this local, available to people. Because the more we do it locally, the more capacity we have to feed ourselves. Right? 

Saba Andualem  30:25

Yeah. 

Marita Bujold  30:26

And those facilities are really crucial. Anybody who's tried to do canning knows that it takes a lot of time and energy to do it, right. It's almost, it's almost heroic, I want to say. So, so thank you for doing it. And for organizing the youth to do it. Is there anything else you'd want to tell us about where you might see that going? I mean, I feel like because you've created this great model, that there might be an opportunity to then show other communities how it can work, right?

Saba Andualem  31:01

Yeah, I would say that just the licensing and the processes, like we've talked about, there are a lot of barriers there. I think there are also a lot of awesome organizations and people who make that a very user friendly process and are “Here's how to do it. It does take time. But here are these five or six steps you could do.” So that's been really nice to learn. I don't think I mentioned this yet but our work with East Side Table has been really great. And has been a big help, too. So East Side Table is a collaboration of 12 different organizations across the east side of St. Paul. And we kind of focus on all things food, and so we're one of the orgs in that collaborative. They work in all the different intersections of foods, so we do a lot of intergenerational meal cooking together. So orgs like East Side Elders, and then like, the youth at Urban Roots work together and do like recipe development, which is awesome, because there's just, if there's like one way to tell a really good story, it's definitely over cooking a meal together. And so we've done a lot of story exchanges, and just meal swaps, the youth at Urban roots and East Side Elders. We also do online education. So like, on the East Side Table Facebook page, every week, we do cooking classes, where you learn how to make like a 10 minute dish dish, or like a 20 minute pasta or something like that. But it's really pantry and budget friendly, but also highlights local food. And then there's also I think, one time, Therese Hill, who manages the East Side Table, she did the canning class, I think, but the education piece is super huge. And then just that kitchen piece, so I think St. Joe's Hospital is working on a space where we could maybe start packaging meal kits, because we do meal kits that we distribute across the east side of St. Paul. And that's a lot of the organizations who work in the East Side Table. East Side will reach out to the folks who are like the participants and get folks to sign up if they're interested. And they get these recipes that are based out of the east side. So it's like chefs we know, community members who have input, nutritionists who have input, and we have these really cool rescue boxes that highlight local produce that we then get sent out. And so that I think like over 500 boxes every summer, you know, are going out on the east side of St. Paul. So, there is a lot of cool ways I think we've learned we can distribute food in peak growing season two.

Marita Bujold  33:30

Yes, the examples you gave are really helpful there because we know that a lot of people are food insecure. And having that distribution, that delivery system, that Skyler mentioned too, as a challenge, how do you set that up? How do you make sure that you have something that families can access? And is it accessible in the place where they live? It's really good to hear that St. Joe's is also a partner on this too, because I've been hearing that public health is looking for better ways to support healthy food in our communities. So what you're doing, they should know about this, right? They should know about what you're doing. 

Saba Andualem  34:13

Yeah, there needs to be a definite, more, you know, more of a connection, I think. A constant, consistent connection between public health and local food, too, you know, and there are, there are great people who are already doing that. But yeah, I think systematic, that kind of sustainable connection between the two things.

Marita Bujold  34:32

Exactly. So Skyler, I want to go back to something you said too, about distribution because from the brief profile that you have on the website, it's clear that you've been doing this work for a while and you're also have done it in other places. Like it mentioned that you lived in New Zealand for a while with farmers who are doing sustenance farming. And I would expect that experience really has informed what you're doing. You want to tell us a little bit about that?

Skyler Hawkins  35:02

Yeah, there are definitely a lot of farms in New Zealand. And it's easy to get involved with many of them. And I just found myself interested while I was there in, less how people are growing food to support themselves financially. And we're interested in how families for growing food to support themselves, nutritionally, I suppose, I mean, I know they saved a lot of money doing that, too. But I mean, for me, if just one family's garden, if they're really trying to feed themselves, is really big. I think that's something that, that I learned is that people need space to do this. All of the places I stayed to learn about families that were supporting themselves in this way, what they all had in common is that they were homeowners, you know, they had land that they could decide what to do with, I just kind of noticed that I wasn't going to be seeing many families that were renting or weren't homeowners who are able to participate in growing food that's relevant to them in that way. So, I suppose that pattern I saw makes me really value community garden spaces a lot. I feel like people deserve to be able to have a part in creating the sort of food that they want around them. But I think there's a lot of barriers that keep people from doing that.

Marita Bujold  36:16

Can you tell us what those barriers are? You mentioned CLUES earlier, and it sounded like they were having difficulty accessing land, and perhaps having a space that they could rely on?

Skyler Hawkins  36:29

Yeah, I think that there are so many parts of it. I'll say that in a city, there's obviously a lot of development that happens. One of our biggest plots is called Rivoli Bluff. And it's about a two acre parcel. And we've been able to install a hoop house and install better water access. Because this piece of land is actually in the flight path, the St. Paul airport. And so the city can't build there, no one can develop there. There's, there's restrictions that keep people from doing that. That's amazing. That's like, really interesting, because we could not do what we're doing if there wasn't this piece of land that we said, “Okay, for sure. No one's gonna build here.” It's a huge part of why we get to be there. It's not very easy to understand where those parcels are in the Twin Cities area. And I think that's something really exciting that could happen, is that, you know, county or city surveyors could highlight those spaces, super low potential for development for A, B, and C reason. I think a parcel that doesn't work well for development might work totally fine for a community garden. And I say that because what the CLUES participants talked about is that this long term, unless they get to know they're going to be there in perpetuity it keeps them from investing the funds into a fence that's going to keep pests away, or water access that allows them to be able to water a hoop house to extend their season, unless they know that they're okay. And that they won't be displaced from this space that they're connecting to and connecting with each other. And they can only go so far in investing in that space and in the community that they're building there. I'll also say that Rice Street Gardens, it's on the Rice-Larpenteur Corridor. That's a two acre community garden. There's about 200 families that garden there. Most are Hmong, Korean, and Bhutanese. A lot of them don't drive, you know, we've talked to a lot of them. And so their proximity of being within a mile of the space for their gardening is really, really important. They walk there, they walk there with their families, and they can't drive three miles. So talking to them, more of that space had to move because it got developed, an alternative would only work for them if they had another parcel within a mile of where they lived. So I think walkability is really big. I think long term land tenure is really big. And I think having the funds for infrastructure is really big. We started a community garden in our space at Rivoli Bluff. And that's been really exciting to just be able to grow into the last couple of years. That was actually an idea that the youth at Urban Roots had. The youth council to plan special projects to help the community out. They said, “Like, why don't we have a community garden? You know, we should make sure our neighbors can garden too.” So, we have about 25 plots now. And, it's a really amazing, like Saba said about east side wisdom. I mean, there's people who are just starting to garden and are really excited about it. And there's people that have been gardening their entire lives, and you know, have a lot to teach us. Sometimes you should be running this farm, not us. You have so much to show us. And it's just really fun even to learn how different people would use the same vegetable in different ways. It's really cool, the conversations that come out of that.

Marita Bujold  39:38

Well, I'm really glad I asked that question because you just offered lots and lots of great insights about how gardeners really can operate in these spaces if they have the resources, if they're not denied the access, especially long term. I hear the same stories from folks that I know on the north side of Minneapolis, who are also have gardens that are lands that have, at least at the moment, not been considered for development. But they face the same problems. Do you invest in adding a fence when you're not sure that you're going to have access to that space next year? Do you invest in a hoop house? I mean, these kinds of decisions that homeowners can make are not available then to those that are relying on a community space. I always think that really the question is, what is real development? What does it mean to have access to community space for something as vital as growing food locally, that is accessible, that can be delivered and preserved in Saba’s kitchen. You know, I mean, all these things that are essential for life, right. So what you've told us about is universally an issue. And I think you'd hear this from communities across the United States, where development is about putting more buildings up, right. It's about a tax base. One of the things that MN350 has been focusing on in their climate solutions is having a truly sustainable food system, advocating for that. And we've done that largely through supporting the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill, which would provide the public resources to have infrastructure to support exactly what you're doing. And just as important, normalize what Urban Roots is doing. Like, make this what we do to help young people be part of the food system, not just as interns, but grow into that role for a career. So, I know from talking with a former Director of Urban Roots that she said, “You know, one of the things that's so troubling is that we have all these wonderful young interns who come through this program, but really, there are no career opportunities for them, or they're so limited.” So I'm curious whether or not you're having more discussions with interns about what they might do once they finish the program? And is there a way that you're advocating for more access to careers in precisely what they're doing now as interns? 

Saba Andualem  42:24

That's a really great point. There are so many different types of work within food. But is there a way to learn these important skills? And then is there also room for economic justice in that field? So, I've worked for Urban Rotos, this, I'm like, in my sixth rotation here. My first year, I remember meeting an intern’s parent and this, in turn, like a lot of their after school activities was STEM, which is amazing. And we really try and incorporate that in our work, too. Because there's so much science in cooking and farming and conservation. Like there's a lot of that and math too. Anyway, this parent was like, “Are you guys teaching my kid to be a farmer?” That's a valid question. I mean, I used to farm in Duluth before I moved to Minneapolis and worked in St. Paul. And my parents moved here from Ethiopia in 1989. And something that they used to say, when I was like living and working on this farm, they're like, “You could do that at home. You could do that anywhere.” Like, how is that? Where's that economic justice piece? So ,that's a conversation that we have, I think, as a staff, often. We really try, a part of our programming is, like career, like out in the field, too. So we'll, we'll try and take our interns to other places or like connect them to higher ed in their prospective program. So I know Michelle Cunningham has a program. And her and I have talked about okay, maybe like fourth year interns in the Cook Fresh program, their next level, after they're done with high school and done with the program is, like maybe, working with you because she's a trained culinary chef, and the program that she's running is, like, awesome, and it'd be a great next step for the interns. So that's one route. But yeah, we definitely talk about what that looks like. Whether it's, do you make canned goods in your house? Are you a maker? Or do you run a restaurant? Or, you know, is it industry? Like, what are these other avenues? At least in the Cook program. Or an educator? I mean, I think something to that. I do love to hear this from the interns. When they're done with the program. I've heard a lot of them be like, “Oh, yeah, like at school, I am kind of the one on my dorm floor cooking for everyone. And it's just so cool because I learned these skills, and I utilize the dorm room kitchen or something.” And I just think that is so great, because also that's a great way to make connections and meet people. I think that's something that we think about a lot at Urban Roots, that next step. Sky, do you have things for garden?

Skyler Hawkins  44:46

We have career panels, too. So, I definitely think we're trying to have youth experience and hear from a lot of different people in a lot of different fields just to like, get them excited about something and just see what they keep thinking about and what they really continue to be curious about as a career. Like some careers that I think we engage with are, we do a lot of soil science. We're always getting soil tested. We work with a lot of conservation folks to figure out how do we conserve the space around the farm. We work with a lot organizers. We talked to a lot of public officials, and we just connect to a lot of different community and build power together amongst different growers, you know, what are the problems we're experiencing, that we have in common? And how can we address those together? I don't know that our goal definitely is not to make sure that people are career farmers, I think we want them to have a relationship to food. And I think to highlight with youth that there's a lot of work that needs to be done, as organizers, as public officials, as people who are changing the way systems are put together to make it sound like a good idea for people to be farmers. And I think learning that firsthand is a really valuable lesson that the youth get to experience. And I think they take that with them. Whatever they do next, you know, they have that context of how do I get my food? And how can we improve that system? And I do think farming is the vehicle to exploring a lot of various job skills with youth. I think the farmers markets are really great. I think just having youth know what it's like to create this product, and meet face to face and have an interaction with somebody who needs it and have some customer service experience is really awesome. I think another thing we do is for high schoolers to graduate out of the Urban Roots program, we're trying to create a lot more opportunities for alumni to stay involved with Urban Roots. So, it's not like your 18, you're going to college, goodbye forever. It's your 18, maybe you're going to college, maybe you're not, what sort of opportunities can we create at Urban Roots that will allow you to still be involved if you want to be still support yourself financially, and also allow you to have the time and space to move on and do the next thing in your life. So in the wintertime, we have explored how do we grow microgreens so that our alumni, Alfredo, can can still show up three days a week in a way that works with his college schedule, and create really awesome, delicious microgreens and learn how to talk to grocery stores and see how to get them into grocery stores. So, I think there's a lot of flexibility to meet people where they're at. So that's really exciting to explore.

Marita Bujold  47:20

I was just gonna say that when I hear the two of you talk, when I hear you describe what you're doing there, what I think is you're preparing young people for potential careers in a local food system. But what we don't have is an infrastructure for a local food system. So, the careers aren't available. And this is the point, especially now with our concerns about climate. We need to have a robust system that's right on the ground here. And you've demonstrated what's possible at every part of it. So, I think that's what our leaders need to hear. It’s that not only is it possible, it's essential, and here's how it can work, we can show you right here at Urban Roots. That's to me what's exciting about what you have to share.

Saba Andualem  48:07

You know, our Alumni Program is just a really, I think, great vehicle to stay in touch and keep our graduates involved. So, I was just thinking about how we have admin roles as well. So we've had interns who have been in the Cook program or or Conservation and Market Garden, and they're like, “You know, I actually want to learn how to like write grants, and be a part of the food system or nonprofit system this way, raising money,” Such a important skill if you work in the nonprofit sector, and one of our alumni staff got really into video editing. And so we're like, “Okay, you can film really cool videos, folks farming or cooking or doing conservation work.” And he's really good. He's really good at editing videos. And that's his job now at Urban Roots. And so, I just wanted to highlight that too, because it's a really cool way to also get to know the interns in this other light, you know. It's like they worked with us as high schoolers and kind of in the program. And I think the Alumni Program really offers, like, more autonomy and more choice in what they want to learn about. And it's just an avenue for that. So.

Skyler Hawkins  49:10

We have another alum, who's our marketing person right now, too. She's so amazing. She does a lot of graphic design for us. And there's one alumni who still works at Urban Roots and she went more like the admin route. She's learning more about, kind of working more with the director behind the scenes organizational work. She's always talking about how she's going to be the executive director someday. And we always joke about how she's going to be my boss very soon. And I think that's probably, we're trying very hard, but I'm sure she'll be my boss and that will be great.

Marita Bujold  49:41

Watch out, Skyler. Well, this has been so wonderful. You know, we're really at time and I know that you probably have other tasks to go to, but could you give us a few more minutes to just tell us how our listeners can support the work that Urban Roots does? Or can learn more about it? 

Skyler Hawkins  50:02

Well, there's a lot of ways to enjoy the produce that we grow. If you look at our website, you can learn about our weekly mobile markets where we take snap and EBT. And we give market bucks for that. So, just coming and showing up those things. We have lots of volunteer opportunities. So if people want to experience what it's like to spend a day on the farm and help create some of that produce, that would be really awesome. I think in general, just where it's possible to advocate for people that have barriers, to have a part in their own food growing experiences, just to try and make sure that there's space being allotted to folks for that. It's not always clear how to advocate for situations like that. But maybe just building relationships with lots of community gardens go away every year. So seeing which community gardens are around you, building relationships with the people who are there, and, and seeing what they need to keep doing what they're doing, I think, it'd be a really good thing to do.

Marita Bujold  50:59

Thank you.

Saba Andualem  51:00

I mean, everything Skylar said, and on our website, there's a lot of events too, or we have food that we make, and interns have a lot of the recipes that our events arer intern created along with a chef. So, just kind of coming to support that way too. It's delicious and fun.

Marita Bujold  51:19

Well, we really appreciate you taking time to tell us all about the work of Urban Roots. It's such an amazing program, set of programs, that you've established. And I love the fact that it's community based, and that you recognize the wisdom of your community and find ways to help people share it. It's really exciting. We really appreciate you. Thank you.

Skyler Hawkins  51:43

Thanks for having us.

Saba Andualem  51:44

Yeah, this was really fun.

Sarah Riedl  51:58

Well, Marita, you all covered a lot of ground in that conversation. As Saba mentioned at the beginning, Urban Roots has these three focus areas. There's community connection, you know, working with other people and organizations to establish accessible gardens and kitchens and markets. There's educating the next generation about how to grow and cook food close to home and preparing them for careers in local food. And then finally, there's this food sovereignty piece, you know, establishing ownership and a sense of agency and security over where their food comes from, and how it impacts their communities and the land around them.

Marita Bujold  52:39

I agree. Together everything Urban Roots does demonstrates the value of good leadership. And really effective design. Communities are making plans to live sustainably, and youth and young people really need to be a part of all of that. Urban Roots is showing us the vital role that they can play. I'm really grateful for it.

Sarah Riedl  53:06

Really incredible work going on at Urban Roots. And just a reminder for our listeners. If you'd like to support that work, you can check out the website at urbanrootsmn.org To find out more about shopping at their mobile markets, volunteer opportunities, and events where you can show up, learn new recipes and build relationships. That's urbanrootsmn.org. And you can also keep up with the latest by following @urbanrootsmn on Twitter and Instagram. And we'll have those links in our episode description as well. Well, that's our show for today. Marita, thank you so much for sharing this conversation with us. 

Marita Bujold  53:45

You’re welcome. It's been a real pleasure. 

Sarah Riedl  53:47

And thank you especially to Saba Andualem and Skyler Hawkins, for sitting down and doing this interview and sharing some of the exciting work they're doing around food and community. For everybody listening. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoy the show, don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Give us a rating and recommendation and be sure to tell your friends. We'll see you again in a couple of weeks. 

Nourish by MN350 is a production of MN350’s Food Systems team. We are changing the way people think about food production, distribution and consumption practices in the context of rapid climate change. This series is made possible by the hard work and passion of a group of dedicated volunteers. This episode was written by Marita Bujold. Our audio editor was Paul Philpott. Our logo was designed by Fizz Design Collective. Our music is by Ecuador Manta, and you can learn more at mn350action.org/podcasts