Menopause, Intimacy & Tantra - Janet McGeever

Janet McGeever is the co-author of Tantric Sex & Menopause: Practices for Spiritual Renewal. She is a TedX speaker with a deep devotion to helping women and men heal, connect and grow. If you feel in any way called to connect with her, I strongly encourage you to reach out...

www.janetmcgeever.com

https://makingloveretreat.com.au

Janet McGeever's TedX Talk - It's Called Making Love Isn't It?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E29ELBiOdCI

Tantric Sex & Menopause: Practices for Spiritual Renewal
Janet McGeever & Diana Richardson
 
The Heart of Tantric Sex: A Unique Guide to Love and Sexual Fulfilment
Diana Richardson

Slow Sex: The Path to Fulfilling & Sustainable Sexuality
Diana Richardson

Transcript

Menopause, Intimacy & Tantra
Todd Zemek Speaking with Janet McGeever

Todd Zemek (00:05):

So today we're talking about menopause, and I know this is going to be one of the most popular episodes of the show, not just for the women who are experiencing menopause, but there might be an even greater curiosity for their partners who are struggling to know how to be supportive and how to connect. So I guess today is an expert in the opportunities for growth and connection during this time, personally, emotionally, and sexually. She's the co-author of Tantric Sex and Menopause. She has a beautiful TEDx talk titled, it's called Making Love, isn't it? And I'll include a link to that in the show notes. So thanks so much for joining us, Janet McKeever.

Janet McGeever (00:40):

Thank you, Todd. It's a absolute pleasure to be here.

Todd Zemek (00:43):

I know that you've got some real wisdom that's going to be very soothing and open some doors that have been closed, not just old doors, but opening the doors to something new, which is desperately needed. So I've been very keen to have you on the show.

Janet McGeever (00:57):

Thank you. It's a real honor, and especially to speak to a man about this subject. So I've been looking forward to it.

Todd Zemek (01:05):

In the communication that we had before the interview, I said that part of the motivation as I was reading your book was that I had so many male patients who were just so distressed. In fact, there's a bit of a formula. They'll come into my office and there's something about the 20 minute mark with a little bit of support about missing their partner. They'll start to break down and all, all the pain that they've been carrying. And there are other issues related to this. It's not just in relation to menopause. So I, I know that these guys are going to be very keen to hear everything that you have to say. So tell me, for a lot of couples in this situation, tan is probably not the first thing that comes to mind. I'm curious to learn about what it is, but to learn about, what was it that called you in this direction?

Janet McGeever (01:50):

I have to say, this is not something I'd ever imagined that I'd ever be doing or teaching or be part of. I was actually brought up Catholic and speaking about sex was just, you know,

Todd Zemek (01:59):

I do know. And you have my sympathies.

Janet McGeever (02:03):

Thank you. So yeah, I really fell into it and, and I'd heard about Tantra, but it always seemed like something that was so esoteric and something that was kind of a little bit scary to me, really. I guess I first heard around about it around my thirties, and when I actually started to investigate and started to discover Diana Richardson's approach to Tantra, I really became very switched on and interested because it was a much more feminine approach. And so I'd like to just say what Tantra really isn't in my books, but how I teach. It's not getting into a room, getting naked, getting your rocks off, and it's not that kind of thing. It's actually about deep connection. The word tantra actually means expansion, and it's an ancient practice really from India, thousands of years old. In our context, it's really bringing mindfulness to the body, you know, mindfulness and meditation to how we move, how we speak, how we connect.

(03:09):

So it's a very, very different direction than I think too. Also what's happened is there's been a westernization of, of tan. So it's been taken and turned into something sensational and into this, this thing that we can go out and get. Whereas in our context, it's actually, we're already born tantric. We're already born with this potential to expand to, to, to be and to connect. And, and in fact, that's a deep longing, I think within the being for that. And it also means interconnectedness, so interconnected with the whole. So it's like, so how can we actually come back in? And then it becomes a very body oriented approach rather than something in the mind, because sex is so much often in the mind, you know, we're, we're going ahead, we're thinking about fantasy. We're ramping things up to make, make things happen. And this is a very much more about a falling back in.

(04:09):

And that's, that it's a switch, really. It's a switch for men and for women. I think for women it's a little easier because we have a lot going on in our bodies from menstruation all the way through. Our bodies are always bringing us back to it, whether through pain or pleasure. So it's kind of a little bit more direct somehow for women. And so I think that's why it's really wonderful for men to really start to understand what it really is and, and to kind of demystify that. It's not something to go out and get, it's something to create the environment for us to access this incredible natural energies within our bodies that have the potential to actually move and create expansion and connection.

Todd Zemek (04:54):

So you're saying that that part of your journey was Diana Richardson's work and that part of the, the appeal was that it was so feminine?

Janet McGeever (05:03):

Yeah, and, and I guess so feminine. When I say that, it's like when I read her first book called The Heart of Tantric Sex, I thought, oh my God, here's a woman actually speaking about sex from a female perspective. Because I felt like everything was, was always about following the man. It was always about, you know, doing whatever. You know, he kind of directed things to, to go in. And whereas for her it was like, no, let, let's actually drop back in. And, and the female body is different to a man's body. And that was the biggest revelation to me to go, oh my God, I don't have to do it the way that a man does it. Or I don't have to feel the way my body isn't ever ready. It doesn't, it's not, it does take time to warm up and that's okay.

(05:49):

There's not something wrong with me. There's not something inherently wrong that it's not immediately in that, you know, ever ready zone, whereas a man's body is ready mm-hmm. Usually if he's, if he's quite healthy, I think it makes women feel that they're deficient, that they're lacking, that there's something wrong. And that was me, because you're driven by hormones in your twenties and it's easy. Then once the hormone picture changes for women and if she has children, that changes again. So there's not that kind of readiness there. So it's like, well, how can we, how can we still start to cultivate connection and even a deeper connection? And both of us still actually enjoy this experience of, of love making. I got into it because of my own pain really. I went into menopause early around 43, 45, and my body really didn't have that desire for sex.

(06:51):

And it would take a long time for me to warm up and kind of be ready. And it wasn't until I came across Diana's approach and then went over to, to Switzerland with my partner and experienced the work that I had this massive revelation that there is nothing wrong with my body, <laugh>. You know, it's just, we just create the environment that works for each of us. And, and that, that's been my thing is, you know, standing on the top of the mountain and saying, ladies, you're okay. There's nothing wrong with your body and <laugh>. So yeah, that's been my mantra really. That's what got me, got me really going. I first heard about her actually back in 2001 through the Australian. There's Ruth Austra is a writer, and Diana and Michael had come out actually and wanted to run a retreat, but they couldn't get the numbers back then. And she got this write up and when I read this I was like, oh my God, slow you go. You can go slow. I have permission to go slow <laugh>. It was just this revelation. So that kind of sparked my interest and, and then I was just like, I want to meet this woman. And then I did. I was so lucky.

Todd Zemek (08:04):

It's interesting, isn't it, when we, when we move into newness, that idea of having permission and that culturally or out of habit or out of expectation from, from the past that it's supposed to be one way.

Janet McGeever (08:17):

Yes, exactly. Yes. Because there's so much conditioning that it's this way and we don't know that there's any other way. And so to be given permission, yeah, it's freedom and it's for men as well.

Todd Zemek (08:34):

And I guess per permission to explore just what is, and with all, all the pain of that disconnection, this is, if you, if you give men some instruction, they're desperately curious to say, ah,

Janet McGeever (08:48):

<Laugh>. Yeah, exactly. And, and what you said is exactly what I experienced with clients as well. And it's heartbreaking to tell the truth because I think there's this stoicism in men that just crumbles when it comes to a certain stage in the relationship, when there is this disconnect. I think that it's just so important to reeducate ourselves in this area. And when men start to understand that a woman's body is different to a man's body, that it does function differently, it opens up differently. He can start to look, like you say, give him some, some ideas, given some, but not so much like step by step instructions. But I see it in the retreats all the time. Even within like 24 hours of a six day retreat, the men are just relaxing and going by three days in, they're going, oh my god. It's incredible. Because they, they're just experiencing the love that they've been yearning for to feel with their partner that they haven't known how to reach, known how to reach

Todd Zemek (09:56):

Her. Oh, wonderful. How did it come to together to be co-authoring the book with Diana Richardson and, and this topic?

Janet McGeever (10:04):

It's interesting. She had mentioned to me that her German publisher had said, I want you to write a book on menopause and sex. She was like, okay. And then I just, one day, about six months later, and no, I'd already been writing about menopause for years because this was so revolutionary to me. And then all of a sudden one morning I just got this downloaded, 12 topics, 12 chapters, and it was there and I was like, oh my God, I think I've got a book here, <laugh> maybe I'll turn it into a course. And then literally within a few weeks later, Diana actually called me and she said, I'm, I'm struggling trying to, you know, think about what to say because I had no problem. She had no problem with menopause. So she said to, can we co-author? And I said, I'd love that. And what an opportunity. I mean, how amazing on me on the sunny coast, you know? Anyway. And I said, in fact, I've got 12 chapters for it already. So we just started. Yeah, that's how it came about. And it was a wonderful experience.

Todd Zemek (11:09):

There's a couple of sentences in the book that I found really pivotal. I usually don't read, you know, people's work back to themselves, but just as for our audience, yeah. The sentences are that now her hormones are drawing her back inward, back home to stay in her home, her center. It's a call she cannot ignore. And at a personal level that's got to be confronting. If it's a call she cannot ignore. I'm, I'm wondering what, what happens if her internal experience of herself, her emotions or her body is already an uncomfortable place? That must be an enormous challenge.

Janet McGeever (11:48):

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, actually as you speak those words, it brings tears to my, because it's such a personal experience, and I think every woman's experience at this stage is very personal. Some women just float through like Diana, and it's, it, it's fine, but others, it can be quite confronting. And I just remember all I wanted to do was bury myself in the ground and just life fell for however long I could <laugh> and just kind of escape from the world, really. And I think there's a time when that's actually really important for women to just go, I can't do this anymore. I've, oh, I'm going to change my life. Or it often is a time when there's going to be a lot of change or there, there can be change because women have given and given and given and given, and women are pleasers. And it's just the natural part because we move from this up, like a, in the TED talk I speak about, we move from our breasts and we give in that way.

(12:48):

That's where the energy is activated in, in us. And the tendency culturally is to, so that's very draining. And also by the time she reaches that stage in her forties, fifties, maybe approaching 60, a woman's body's been through a lot. So either through all the stages or childbirth or whatever we go through. So yes, it can be a scary place for women to go to, and it can be a place where she wants to avoid, but like I say, this is the opportunity and, and this is the time when she needs to be really therapeutically held deeply by someone like yourself or me or others to be held through this time. Because to me, this is the portal, this is the doorway, this is the way into the next part of her life. And there's a saying in the book, going in, going down, going through.

(13:49):

And I really feel that that is what this is about. We have to go in and actually not sort of dig in, but if there is, there's kind of like a little excavation sometimes going on. And it, to me, it's a purification mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it's, it, it, it's for whatever hasn't been dealt with, whatever ever has been put aside to gently and lovingly be brought into light so that we can forgive, we can let go, we can forgive our bodies sometimes for, for what we've been through because there is such a disconnect in women often with the body because it's been a place of pain. So we can live just from the head up. And so when we start to feel the body, which is what tan really is calling you to do, then it can start to dishevel things and start to shake loose things.

(14:46):

But it's a good one, it's a good shaking. So I really encourage women to, to allow that and to allow the crumbling, if there's crumbling going on, and you, you'll get through. And for the men to encourage the men to know that she will get through and just, it's about just holding that space really for that. And I'm not saying that that will happen for all women because it doesn't necessarily, so it was really an awakening to a new way of being. And to me that's what tantra is. It's, it's calling, it's, you know, I love what Diana says is that this work is a step forward in human evolution. And to me that's what this period is about. It's about how can we evolve from this sex that is quite unconscious that actually makes people quite depressed and angry and disconnected. How can we start to evolve to something that is more connected and actually is more about love than about sensation?

Todd Zemek (15:48):

You're saying in your own experience that you, if I heard you correctly, that you were sort of wanting to go underground. You were wanting to sort of pull away a little mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and I, I, I guess, you know, as you're saying that women being so supportive of other people of merging with other people's needs, I guess that that would be a, a really valuable step is in finding yourself is to have the right to pull away.

Janet McGeever (16:11):

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, commonly children are starting to leave the home if they've had children. It depends on some women of having kids younger, I mean older now, but so they're caught in this little thing of actually m still parenting. But often it is a time when the children are starting to go. And that's been her purpose. That has been her purpose. Or if she hasn't had children, her work has been her purpose, however she has served the community has been the purpose. But this is now calling her to go back in and cha and fi like I said, fine home in here. Cause she's been out for too long. And it becomes a desert out there. Cause of the depletion and the, the direction often changes.

Todd Zemek (16:59):

So if it's a desert out there, it's going to be richer internally. And I think that'd be such a reassuring thing for both in a relationship that, that this is a time potentially where it's going to be good for me to pull away to Yes, to some extent. It doesn't mean that the relationship is dying necessarily mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and we're not connecting the way that we used to. But this could actually be good for me. It could be good for us.

Janet McGeever (17:24):

Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. And that's why I think this is a really hard period because it's hard for men to understand. Women are just like, don't go near me, don't touch me. I just, I just, I can't. So that's okay. I think this is where she has to find, bridge, this little space between if she still wants the relationship, yes, honor this side that is like, I need my space. I need to be left alone because that will pass, that will pass. But also in, create enough of a bridge between you and the man, you and your, your partner, to actually still keep that connection going, at least through communication. You know, what I'm experiencing, what I'm going through. And that's why Tan is so beautiful because it's, it is about relaxing rather than going for tension. It is about let's go, let's let go of the goal of even getting to sex to start off with, if they've been so disconnected for a long time, let's actually just sit and let's actually just be with each other.

(18:35):

Let's lie together in, in stillness and silence for a while. That's, that sounds weird to, to a man sometimes. But honestly, I see men just finally relax because they're so tuned to performance and, you know, making things happen. When men start to see a different way, there's this deep relaxation that opens up in them, and then they can start to connect more with their own heart as well. It's important for us as women to still be willing to stay in the transaction or to stay in the connection at least through saying, this is what I'm going through. Yeah. Yeah. I just think reading the book is just brilliant for this because, and I've seen men just go, oh my God, I wish that I read this 20 years ago. And women too. But it just really helps, it's like a guidebook to me that it, it helps men really understand women so much more. And I think it also helps women give themselves permission that there are changes going on and, and it's a good thing or in a better direction.

Todd Zemek (19:47):

Yeah. I, I think that would be such a, a valued invitation, you know, keeping, keeping that open and having those options in terms of connecting, of just lying together or spending time together or paying attention to those subtleties without any pressure for anything to happen.

Janet McGeever (20:02):

And I think, I just want to mention one of the, really, one of the main premises in this work is we are so tuned and conditioned to be out towards the other person. How can we actually come back in and be here and be present with me first? So it's all about actually being present with yourself first before you actually connect with another. And this is what I see such a big change in the first 24, even just the first session with couples, or the first 24 hours is men actually get, and women get to experience. Ah, I've actually been kind of energetically out there chasing her because she keeps withdrawing from me. But it's interesting and, and it's all energy when she to actually learn how to come into his body, which is just bringing attention down into the body through either the, the solar plexus or the, or we teach in the middle of the retreat, like the base of the penis.

(21:02):

Like just below the the naval is wonderful for men. It's a great center to start with. And then be with her, you know, then be present. And the same with her. She's doing the same thing. And it draws women in. It will draw the women to you if the men can actually stay in themselves and stay in their body. Because what also happens is they just, they kind of grow a foot taller. They just, their, their, they're present. And all women really want is, is a man to be present with her that is about embodying that presence and connecting through his heart

Todd Zemek (21:46):

Takes a takes some reassurance for men to actually, well they have to experience it

Janet McGeever (21:52):

Exactly. Like all of this we can talk about and, but it's until they actually experience it in their body that it really gets, it's the same with everything, with any of these practices. It's like yoga and mindfulness and everything like that. We can talk about it, but it's not until you actually put it into practice. And it's more over time that the changes really are there. But you immediately see the change in and they feel it. And women, they feel it and they go, ah, okay, now I get that. And it's so simple. It's so simple. This is what is, that's why this is not a mystery. It's very simple. And to me, this is tan for the everyday couple, for every, every couple. Could

Todd Zemek (22:34):

We say it might be an oversimplification, but, but in a way she's coming in to own her independent truths and he's coming to see that there's value in his presence rather than performance. Yes. Yeah. I love that. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.

Janet McGeever (22:52):

Definitely. Definitely.

Todd Zemek (22:53):

And that, that seems to be a, a, a pretty, a bit of a game changer in terms of, okay, this is us <laugh>, this is us being us. Yeah,

Janet McGeever (23:03):

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's the evolution of the relationship, you know, that's the potential of where it can go. And that's why I feel sad a lot with couples because they miss this and it's so simple. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> him being more in his presence and her, and the same for hers. And it is, it is empowering for both of them. And I think, like I said before about that permission giving women permission to feel like they have the choice of when they, through the impulse of their body, when they're ready to move forward for lovemaking, you know, rather than having to respond to a man's kind of calling for love making all the time it take, that's why this takes longer. That's why it takes time. That's why the retreats, it's six days and that's why the afternoon, the whole afternoon is for putting these into practice. So it does take that little bit of time and it's so worth it

Todd Zemek (24:01):

That that support would be invaluable, I'm sure. What advice would you give to couples in terms of just the idea of the fact that distancing could be a new way of coming back together and that that's actually a healthy thing, sort of regulating the, the pace changing expectations. Any other advice that you'd give in terms of the conversation that they would have around how things were changing or, or how they could be bridging

Janet McGeever (24:29):

Communication, like you've spoken of is important to be able to, and to, to open that up. And I think that's what's, can be very hard for men because that's not something that they're usually used to. That's the leap I think for them. I think first of all, accepting that this is where we are. Next thing is, okay, what are we, it it's a common, a common goal or common thing that we want is this. We want to create reconnection. How can we create reconnection? I think it's so important for couples to set aside time. Time is the biggest impediment to intimacy. We think it should be quick. No li like, give a whole evening for connection or give a whole morning or something like that. Set a time once a week where you are valuing the connection in your relationship. And it might be a little clunky to start off with and it might be a little odd, but even if you are just allowing that space of time, like two hours or something like that where there's no interruption with kids and anything like that, you are dedicating that.

(25:38):

And I think that's very reassuring for a man and for, for women to actually stick to that agreement and to start to create that intimacy by, first of all, sitting on your own and just connecting in with your own body first and then coming together, maybe standing opposite each other or, or sitting opposite each other. I hear people say, oh, tantrums all about, like, I read in Cosmopolitan magazine, do I gazing and things like that. And I'm like, oh boy, it's, yes, the eyes are important, but what we, when we talk about the eyes in tan, it's receptive eyes. So, so we are receiving that person with softening ourselves. So that's a beautiful thing, a beautiful practice to do as well, is to really just sit and be with each other in that way and stay in your body. Like keep anchoring down inside. Every time you feel like you're going outwards, take a breath and breathe down into your own body and then take a little step forward and then just, you know, or, or a little come a little closer.

(26:43):

And then allow the embrace to be soft. Allow it to just be melting. Let the bodies relax because that's what we say is to move from sensation to sensitivity. And to do that, we need to let go of tension and move more towards relaxation. So, the more that the bodies can relax. Because the bodies love to make love, they love it. It's our minds and everything that, you know, have gotten in the way. So, we kind of got to get through that, that zone first. And then once we let the bodies actually relax, they, they start to make love in a their own way. There's no rules with that, but it's just like, let go of the goal. Let yourself relax. Notice when you're going ahead of yourselves, go f more for the slow conscious movement. And when you are more conscious in your movement, you will automatically become more slow.

Todd Zemek (28:01):

I like what you what you say in the book as well about the notion of coolness and heat.

Janet McGeever (28:07):

Yeah, that's a big one. So when you think of conventional sex, it's always moving in the direction of heat. It's always fast, quick coming to the orgasm, ejaculation and then bang, it's over. And this is where the separation happens. This is where often women are like, oh, is that it? I didn't even get warmed up. You know, like, so what happens is, if you look at, we talk about the hot and the cold zone or cool zone, if you look at down here is zero, and then up here is a hundred percent. Usually men are quite near that, they're already quite aroused, at least over 50% or just by looking, just by being around his, his woman. Whereas women we're, we're mostly resting around zero, we're not, we, our bodies are not automatically aroused usually sometimes that is for women if there's a stimulation going on.

(29:00):

But, so we're here and men are up here, so it's like, how can we actually make love where we can start to come more into, it's not cold, but a cooler place where it gives women time. So we need more time to warm up so that she can, her sexual temperature can rise. And that's a lot through awareness of her breasts rather than focusing on the genital. So for men to stop focusing on the genitals, <laugh> start focusing on her whole body and touch and sensitivity and the breast. And it's not like that's another job to do, but just keep the breasts and the awareness. And it does take consciousness for men to not let themselves go into that really hot, hot zone to hold that and just be okay. But the more he can relax, the more he will start to bring the heat down so that they start to match their sexual temperature more.

(30:00):

And in that way, love making lasts longer, not in the, like, in the ads, but you need more time for that. And it does allow for that expansion. And in the end it's like there's not so much going on often in making love, like there's more stillness. And it might seem strange to say that, but there's more stillness and, but the men start to understand through the practice that even if they do lose their erection, it's actually okay because it's going to come back. And that, that's the fear for men. They feel like they've got their, we've got to go somewhere with that, but no, actually, it's actually better to let it go down and then, and then stay with her and maybe, maybe there's entry, but keep it really slow and, and it still sometimes and then move, but it will come back. So to relax with that, and that's the big thing for men is to relax when it comes to direction as well.

Todd Zemek (30:58):

And so that, that would be a big reframe that that success would, would <laugh> if we're coming from that frame of connection is going to be part of traveling together through coolness and heat Yes. As as opposed to, I I'm just going to lead you to this place. Yeah. Then allowing erections to, to come and go, I guess paradoxically is going to provide her with that sense of presence and him with that sense of that he's still valued despite his performance. Totally. But this is now that this is now embodied.

Janet McGeever (31:34):

Exactly.

Todd Zemek (31:35):

And so the roles are starting to drop.

Janet McGeever (31:37):

Yes, exactly. Okay. That's why I always say to me, tan, this, this work is about shedding, it's about unknowing, it's about knowing less and, and these layers of tension, the things fall away from you so that you're just in this presence with each other. And that to me is where that's where that expansion is. And that connection and love is,

Todd Zemek (32:05):

As we're talking, I'm just so conscious that I continue to take this masculine perspective on behalf of my, my patience. But, but what a wonderful thing if we say that this is a, a feminine opening for both. And you were saying that, you know, that crumbling of his persona, you know, starts to drop as a healthy thing, that there's a Yeah. A death there. Yeah. Again, if we're framing this as something positive for both that she's inviting him in to, to the feminine. So on the one hand that distancing we were talking about, but on the other hand, such a rich invitation into, into something more organic. Yeah,

Janet McGeever (32:43):

Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. And what it does, it brings men also to a little, a very tender place and sometimes a little more vulnerable and, but beautiful. I mean, that just draws women even closer in that, and again, not as a goal, but just it's, it, it's a byproduct of presence.

Todd Zemek (33:04):

What are your thoughts on something like Viagra in a situation like that? I imagine it's kind of losing an opportunity in that way.

Janet McGeever (33:12):

Yeah, I think it's really losing an opportunity and I think it's just not necessary. I'm not a man, so I can't say, oh, don't use it or whatever. But there's so much more potential here that this has not been tapped in the human experience. I don't think it's, we think we've got to go and get a pill for this and a pill for that. This, this natural inherent energy within our body has not been tapped enough. And it can be simply by this presence and buying by, by being together and letting go of the whole notion of erection. Even like the penis is still a very positive, we say it's the positive pole, but it's a very alive organ, even when it's not a erect. And I think that's the, the thing that men and women need to get into their, into their mind. Because when you start to make love in this way, and there are times of stillness as a woman, it's hard to tell whether there's erection there or not because there's so much the blending, it's like the cells just all blend together. So I think it's a sad thing that, that men reach for that. And again, that's about performance. Mm. So it's like, how can we actually drop that whole idea and move into presence instead?

Todd Zemek (34:32):

I was interested as I was reading the book, and it, it made me think of even some of the young men that I work with who are being prescribed Viagra at the age of 20 as a, as a means of dealing with performance issues. So obviously there's, there's, there's no physiological issue whatsoever, but they're being primed to go, you know, more heavily in that direction, which means that they're not as prepared to connect in their future like this.

Janet McGeever (35:01):

I'm horrified to hear that. I really am. And

Todd Zemek (35:05):

And these, I mean, I, I, I mean, I'm almost 50, so I, I call them kids, but these, these kids come, come into my office and they're, it's like they're superman. They're just ecstatic that they're now porn star. Yeah. In terms of pre preparedness for the stupid connection, it does seem,

Janet McGeever (35:22):

I think the sad thing is that there, there's this misconception that that's what women want. And we don't, women, young women don't want that. I mean, there's, there is this conditioning Yes. Around, like in my, in my TED talk where I talk about porn and all that's very out of date now in terms of the statistics that pretty much 100% of teenagers have seen some kind of porn. So this is influencing so much, and sadly, that is what's going on for, for boys and young men. And it is really sad for the future of relationships. And at some point, that is going to be very, very painful. Mm-Hmm. And so yeah, I would definitely be encouraging him to read the Heart of Tantric Sex or another book called Tantric Sex for Men to learn about how the male body really does function and also to detox from porn. But I guess it's, it's like, well, what, what do they want in their life? I think the thing to convince them about is that this is not what girls want. This is not what women want, and it's just a dead end direction really,

Todd Zemek (36:30):

In terms of the distance that, you know, it can be very painful. You know, the, the use of porn and then the discovery of that can be, you know, feel like another betrayal or another wound or injury where there is an opportunity like at a time like this. So that's, that's very common too.

Janet McGeever (36:46):

So this is where, you know, more healing. And I think this is what's beautiful about this work is it is so very, healing for sex is such a taboo subject, and it's a can of worms under there, and not just for women, but men in terms of abuse and in terms of porn, in terms of their vulnerable experiences, early vulnerable experiences. So to be a, you know, connection and love are the healing balm for those experiences. And we can, as therapists do what we can to help them through in that. And that's incredibly valuable. And in my experience, to actually experience that healing in the body with another is just, it's like the cells, it's a cellular healing. You can't beat that.

Todd Zemek (37:36):

What would you say to people who are dismissive of, of tantra and, and invariably there's going to be some fears around that.

Janet McGeever (37:45):

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think the dismissive ones just ignore me. But certainly there's often one partner who might be dismissive and the other isn't. But I think that's what's lovely about this approach. It is so simple. It is just about presence. It's about how I, I actually say, I, I have this flip chart and I go through, well, what's it like when you're absent? What's your partner like when they're absent? And he gets to say what, what she's like when she's not. And then it starts to kind of switch them and go, oh, okay, well it's actually looking into her eyes is actually while I'm speaking, creates presence or not being on my phone and putting that down and putting that away. And, you know, that creates presence. So I think it's little by little, but I mean, if they're absolutely not interested, you can't do much about that. Or one, one of the books that Diana's written called Slow sex doesn't have the word tan in it. That's quite a good handbook for couples who it's like, Hmm, okay, that's different. Wonder what that is. So it's that, that might be a good suggestion. <Laugh>,

Todd Zemek (38:55):

What about women whose partners don't seem that Ready? Any thoughts about navigating that

Janet McGeever (39:03):

Must be That's a tough one. It really is tough because I see this a lot actually. Women are more heading in that direction than men because they will have it needed to, you know, like it's not really, we, we can do a lot as women to start to really, first of all educate ourselves on how our body is different so we can then understand a male body as well, and not think well, oh, he just wants, wants sex all the time. Well he's just, you know, we just want to level, you know, we're like this all the time. It's just like, no, it's okay. That's actually okay. And to start to reframe things so that we're seeing things more from the male perspective. So I think education is great, educate ourselves, but also embody start to, for us as women to experience being in our bodies through practices like yoga and meditation, do the breast meditation, which I offer women, so that we can start to feel that internal energy within our bodies without having to, it's just more empowering to start to feel that energy with within our bodies to be able to connect.

(40:16):

And what happens is when we are more present to ourselves as women, when we start to become more embedded bodied in that way, we open much more to our, to our own love than to to love itself. And that in itself starts to entrain others. So to me, entrainment is a really important thing. And here he might go, I don't know what it is, but I'm kind of, you know, like, it's that. And also when she can start to understand a little bit more in the love making arena, she can start to direct things a little bit too. Just like, hang on, let's just do this. Let's, let's try this first. Let's, so it's like her making, taking more direction really. Mm. In a way than she's ever perhaps taken.

Todd Zemek (41:02):

How about for, for women who are single

Janet McGeever (41:05):

To me, women who are single, look, there's a lot of pain out there for women who are single, especially if they've been single for a long time. But if they've coming off relationships or, you know, I, to me it's a rich time for women to actually really heal for women to heal from past relationships, to actually again, do exactly the same. Start the embodiment practices so that she can start to understand how her body is, enjoy the pleasure movement, sensuality. So actually really start to open to her feminine in a subtle way. Not like I'm going to put on my feminine now and, you know, be feminine. That's not it. It's like, how can, how can I actually cultivate this feminine energy within my own body? And once, once she's doing that, there's, there's more opportunity then I think for her. But also we have to work with our hearts because we can't always make something happen.

(42:07):

And there's something that I asked Diana quite a while ago when I was teaching. I was having a lot of women say, what, you know, I'm so longing for a relationship. I'm just like, I'm longing and, or I can't connect with him. Like, you know, like this. And she said an amazing thing to me. She said, tell them to bring that longing back to its source. I thought, oh, okay, well that would be from here from the heart. So this is the practice I think, for women is that longing, the longing for the future, the longing for something. It's always out there. How can, this is the daily practices, bring it back into the source, into your heart and allow it to marinate there. And even the past, those ruminating and the things that we've wish we did or, or this same, bring it back to here.

(43:05):

Yes, heal that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, this is how we can be more present. This is how we can evolve mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And to me, this is how joy arises, this is how love expands and create a vision of what you want of a relationship. <Laugh>. yeah. So I think there's just a lot to work to, to work with there. And it is around embodiment and it's around the practice, the mindfulness of knowing that source is here, it's not about another person. And you'll be in a much healthier place if you do practices like that where you know that you are the source of your love. You know that you are love, we are

Todd Zemek (43:47):

Lovely for that to be supported formally as well. If that's something that you're not accustomed to, we can sort of make introductory attempts and then they collapse. So yeah, having a, what do you mean? Oh, I mean, like, having someone like yourself or me just having that backup, so to sustain it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and oh yeah. You know, we're talking about permission a little bit earlier. Just having that, that permission, that support, that celebration until it sort of takes on a life of its own. Exactly. And then it's like, oh, okay, now I'm, I'm dancing again and I'm having fun and I'm meeting for coffee with my friends, and then we're going to go into yoga and then <laugh>, whatever it might be. Yeah, yeah. But some, some training wheels with another human.

Janet McGeever (44:31):

Exactly. Yes. It's a pretty good thing. Yeah, it's important, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful.

Todd Zemek (44:36):

So curious about coming, coming into the body and the relationship with, with yoga or meditation?

Janet McGeever (44:43):

Oh my God, I just think this is imperative now, at this point in our lives coming into this age, it's especially for women, but also men too. You know, with the onset of menopause, often anxiety can start to roll in quite a bit more because the, the ovaries and not producing the estrogen and progesterone and then the mi the, the brain starts to scramble for, for more of it and it ends up kind of scrambling out of the adrenals. And so there can be a lot of draining energy and a lot of women feeling exhausted and very depleted. So that's why I just think these are two necessary things is stillness, meditation, you know, mindfulness. And I love restorative yoga. I mean, gentle yoga for the body at this age. A lot of yoga can be too stimulating and too much for the female body, but going into restorative.

(45:39):

And that's why I put that into the book because I moved in, I was like, oh my God, I'm so needed this. You know, like, I don't know if you've done restorative yoga that I love it. And women, we could just lie around all day doing the story of yoga games. Yeah. So good. But it's also, you know, I've discovered how replenishing it really is. And, and on that note of replenishment, that's why tantra in this way that we practice is so nourishing for the body. And that's why men and women will find this couples who are together and they start to practice, there's actually moves us from the, the, that adrenaline kind of high functioning into what the se sympathetic nervousness into the parasympathetic, so into the rest and digest. So you are actually, you know, the, the brain and the body and the glands are being flooded by good feel hormones.

(46:34):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which are just so healthy for the body and healthy for healing. So often, you know, as we get into this period up to fifties, sixties and over, I say that cuz I'm just about to turn 60 mm-hmm. <Affirmative> yeah, this body starts to do stuff and it's becomes more and more important that we actually really, really take care of the body. And those practices are brilliant. And this is why like woman time retreat, the retreat that I, I run and the woman time work came out of writing the book because I thought, oh my goodness, not just menopause women, menopausal women, but younger women need to know this information. I want to empower younger women so that they know what they can do for their body to actually understand where they're moving into and how can they keep, you know, make the symptoms less as well for them and to be more empowered.

Todd Zemek (47:34):

Yeah. Sorry. On your website the Art of Feminine Presence, tell us a little bit about that.

Janet McGeever (47:40):

<Laugh>. The Art of feminine presence is actually a body of work created by a friend of mine actually. But she's in the states, she's Australian, but in the states called Rachel Jane Groover. And she's written a couple of books around feminine presence. And this work is all again, about embodiment. It's about helping women come back inside their bodies and learning how they energetically show up. So whether they're non-con containers, they're kind of all over the place and how to pull your energy back in, or if they're shrinkers and they're kind of like that, how to actually be in their body and just expand that little bit more just so it's really, really working with, with the energy. That's it really. There's like 44 practices in the, in the work, but I loved it because it's actually tan. It's, it's, it's exactly what we teach at the retreats. So yeah, it's beautiful work. Mm. Just, you know, self-awareness for women. So yeah, I do a one day and, and I bring the art of them and presence into all the work that, that I do. So yeah, it's great. The great tools.

Todd Zemek (48:52):

What are the typical presentations in terms of people that reach out to you? What are the typical sort of starting places that people come from when they're looking for help?

Janet McGeever (49:01):

Well, the retreats, we can have different ages. I can have couples in their twenties who are getting married or who wanted to start in a good way moving forward. I always have couples from all the different decades going up to the seventies, but mostly forties, fifties, sixties. And look, it varies. It can be that, that they just want to just preserve what they've got. It's a new relationship, perhaps, you know, it's a second or third marriage. And they want to actually really cultivate this presence together and keep what's already there. Some have been together 30 years, 15 years, 40 years even, and they've just lost that connection. And often it's, there's just not on the same page sexually and they just want to know how to come back or, and couples who love each other and they just want to, that they know that they can connect more deeply, but they just don't have the roadmap. They don’t know how to go about it.

Todd Zemek (50:01):

So we're, we're both on the Sunshine Coast in Australia. I was delighted to, to see, discovered you as I was looking on Diana's website, little Australian flag next to you now. So it was nice to hear you mention Coolum in the TEDx talk as well. It's just like, oh, there's, there's, that's where I am. But for, for people who aren't local, would they be able to get in contact with you for some directions or, yeah,

Janet McGeever (50:24):

Definitely. So they could, yeah, I do. Yeah, I work one-on-one, so I have a, I do a couple of, I do a little, like a shorter little version with couples just like one month or, you know, three or four sessions or I do a six, six week course where it's quite intensive. I work with them individually and then them as a couple and I, I go through the teaching with them. So I've done that quite a bit with couples who are, are not local, of course anyone in Australia can come to the retreats and we've had couples from Europe, from America, from often New Zealand, so, so there's that. But I'm also working on some new work, so I'm putting together a platform for couples of course, so that they can do at home so that they can still receive the teaching and become, you know, empowered from anywhere

Todd Zemek (51:12):

In terms of getting in contact with you just through your website.

Janet McGeever (51:15):

Yeah. www.janetmcgeever.com. I've got two, www.janetmcgeever.com and then www.makingloveretreat.com.au. There are a lot of resources there. I have blogs there, a lot of information. There's another interview on that as well. And I hop on my mailing list because I give information in, in that. And also the events, you can find out when they're on as well for next year. And again, I'll be doing woman time online as well next year and, and also on menopause course too, so. Great. That's the direction that I'm moving in. So, yeah. And just send me an email, at janet@janetmcgeever.com if they want to connect personally with me.

Todd Zemek (51:59):

Sounds great. I'm sure that a lot of people will, I, I can imagine that this will be something that's just really intriguing and exciting for, for a lot of people. Yeah. I'm just so grateful for what you do for the book and for sharing this with people today.

Janet McGeever (52:13):

A pleasure. Thank you so much for

Todd Zemek (52:15):

Having me. No, it's been, it really has. Yeah. I'm sure we'll be in touch again. Great. Okay. Thanks again.