Growing in Love with Slow Sex - Diana Richardson

Diana Richardson lives near Zurich, Switzerland and is considered one of the world's leading authorities on tantric sex. She is the best-selling author of eight books on how you can experience a more fulfilling and connected love life, including Slow Sex and The Heart of Tantric Sex. Diana has been teaching couples with her partner since 1993, in their Making Love Retreats.

Diana's Ted Talk - The Power of Mindful Sex

Slow Sex - The Path to Fulfilling and Sustainable Sexuality

The Heart of Tantric Sex: A Unique Guide to Love and Sexual Fulfilment  

Transcript

Growing in Love with Slow Sex
Todd Zemek Speaking with Diana Richardson

 Todd Zemek (00:00:00):

This is the first time that I've dedicated a podcast episode to anyone, and I want to dedicate this episode to any of my patients who've ever experienced any type of sexual abuse, any sort of sexual trauma that has been an obstacle to experimenting with being themselves, giving and receiving, taking part in any sensual, sexual, or erotic connection with another human being. Today we're talking about slow sex. We're talking about tantric sex, how we go about being received, supported, expressing ourselves more fully without any pressure or expectation on performance. But the lens is shifted to being, to actually being yourself, supporting your partner in doing the same, and then having that being shared between the two of you. And see where that takes you. This is something that has the power to be sexually healing, to be very, very therapeutic and restorative. However, if you are in a place where there isn't sufficient protection, it doesn't feel safe for you to proceed, by all means, it might not be the time.

(00:01:05):

Congratulate yourself for the fact that you're at the table, that you're hearing this. You're starting to normalise some of these experiences, and you can talk with people that make you feel safe, whether it's a partner, a friend, myself, whether it's a therapist, that might be your work. In no way do you have to jump into any sexual experimentation of any kind. But if you're feeling safe, this is a fascinating episode with one of the world's foremost authors on the topic. Someone who certainly has walked her walk and is very deserving of being a genuine leader in this area. So I hope that you enjoy this really beautiful episode about tantric sex. Diana Richardson, thank you so much for joining us today.

Diana Richardson (00:01:52):

Welcome, really, it's a pleasure. And thank you so much for inviting me on your show.

Todd Zemek (00:01:57):

Been looking forward to it. And all the way from Zurich, right?

Diana Richardson (00:02:00):

Yeah. Close to Zurich. You all the way down under <laugh>.

Todd Zemek (00:02:05):

Yes. Not far from a friend of yours, Janet McGeever.

Diana Richardson (00:02:08):

That's right.

Todd Zemek (00:02:08):

Beautiful. I just did an episode with her recently. She's certainly got a great deal of respect and affection for you.

Diana Richardson (00:02:14):

Yes, she's lovely. And she's such a good friend and such a holder of the light. No, like you <laugh>. Yes.

Todd Zemek (00:02:21):

I've just re-listened to your TEDx talk, the power of mindful sex. And in the talk you say that 30 years ago would've never imagined that changing the way I made love would mean that I spent the rest of my days talking about sex. And here we are. So why is this so important?

Diana Richardson (00:02:38):

You know, I just found changing the way I made love changed my life. You know, I had no goal in the whole thing. I actually trained as a lawyer in South Africa, initially six years at university, but very soon realized that this would involve a life of the mind, and I wanted more life of the heart. And then I became a massage therapist, and that interest in the body invoked some curiosity about sex. And I had two sources. One was Osho from India, who talked a lot about the ancient tantric scriptures. And the other is from Barry Long from Australia. And he did already in the 1980s, two very great cassette tapes at that time, <laugh> talks called Making Love. And I listened to those hundreds of times and together brought these two bodies of wisdom into practice. And I was so astounded how making small adjustments in the sexual exchange changed me.

(00:03:40):

I just felt different in my body, more present in the moment. My re connection with men changed. In other words, it wasn't like a projection on a man that I fancied or just was able to be more natural, more, more simple. And also my relationship with women changed. You know, they were no more like competitors in the field or you know, this comparison that women have. And, and basically, yeah, and I mean, I really say that expression, you know, changing the way I made love because I didn't start with tundra. You know, people say, okay, now we are gonna do tundra. It's not like that. It's like you change slowly, slowly the way you make love. And so, you know, I experimented personally for very intensively, for over five years. And then during that time, you know, you suddenly have understandings, revelations. And because I was living in India and in a kind of a community situation, people started to come to me. They sort of cottoned on something was going on, and I wasn't at the parties anymore, basically <laugh>

Todd Zemek (00:04:47):

<Laugh>.

Diana Richardson (00:04:48):

And people started to come to me to ask questions. And I found, oh, I can answer questions. That's interesting. And then it led to offering retreats and writing books, but it was really out of more and organic things. So there was neither any goal in the whole thing. So it's just become my life.

Todd Zemek (00:05:05):

It's a lovely thing when that personal growth just becomes who you are. Yes. Yeah. And then that, that sense of leadership is just people responding to that. People can feel that, that you're just the real deal.

Diana Richardson (00:05:19):

Yes, that's true. And, and also because the information that I'm imparting people can relate to, you know, somehow in their nature there's a resonance and, you know, I don't claim anything like it's my information, you know, I'd, I'd always acknowledge my sources, but at the same time, I have built in a lot of personal experience and observations and insights. So I've really filled that thing out on a more body practical level. So if you listen to Barry Long sounds good, but it's all, it's not so body focused. Little, little things. So I pulled all these little, little things into also Asha, you know, amazing what he says. And my question was always like, well, how do we do that with penis and vagina? And from Barry Long, I got these really clear inputs about penis and vagina. And then the whole thing became really, really round for me. Then I could really understand osha because then I understood how to use the penis in vagina differently. You know, because the way we use it conventionally, I say, is just like with a lot of friction and building up intensity and sensation and, you know, going for orgasm. So once you understand that these are two intelligent organs and they're able on a very subtle, fine level to exchange energy, and they have their own intelligence. So it's, it's been so interesting and it is still interesting. 

Todd Zemek (00:06:51):

I'm super interested about you talking about how your relationship with men changed, your relationship with women changed. But I'd love to just go with the flow. Okay. In terms of what you learned about penises and vaginas there…

Todd Zemek (00:07:06):

As we're both smiling.  Because there is that lovely combination of the technical and the spiritual. So I'd love to hear you speak about that.

Diana Richardson (00:07:13):

You know, the whole thing is one has to change one's whole perception of sex. And it requires a presence, body awareness being in the moment, which, so therefore, that actually requires a body connection. And this is something we are not educated in. I happen to be, for whatever reason kinaesthetic, body oriented person. It could do to something, you know, with my upbringing in South African, very natural circumstances with, you know, surrounded by the Zulu and so on. So this is like a prerequisite, but it's like all our education is about the mind. There's nothing about the body. So we tend to be very, in our minds around sex, and we have to come back into the body. And when we do that and start to trust the bodies, because many of us don't, you know, then things start to just happen very organically and also start part of our imprinting is that we all about sensation and intensity and building that up, but we need to start to give value to the subtle, the very small things, because those are the roots.

(00:08:28):

Those subtle things are the roots of more expanded experiences. And a lot of that, you know, in the heterosexual connection is to do with how we use the penis in vagina. And like I said, like usually it's friction and then that builds up like an, an overcharge, and then there's a discharge, but it's not real. The natures of these organs, the is designed to channel energy, and the vagina is designed to receive energy, and it's not a doing, it's just if we anchor ourselves more in the body and trust the organs, they do that by themselves. But it does require presence and awareness and being more inwardly focused. Conventionally our attention is displaced. We are actually on the other, and you can see it in movies and everything. You see a couple come together and they're all over each other and nobody's really home. So one of the first steps is to start to anchor yourself in your body, develop that inner awareness.

(00:09:38):

And you know, it's not something that happens overnight, just unfolds. And I just stayed on track because it was just great. You know, I loved it. I felt more alive, more natural, more innocent, and I loved to make love so was in bed as much as possible. So when we get this organic exchange, you know, between penis and vagina, and you know, obviously that includes the whole body, then it's sex becomes just really touching. You know, you feel enriched by it, you feel nourished by it, you feel empowered by it. Whereas often conventionally, you know, we have sex. It doesn't last so long. It's, it's very intense. There's a high level of premature ejaculation with men. There's a high level of women who are not satisfied by sex, who don't even manage to have an orgasm. Basically, what's so important to understand is there's nothing wrong to, to bring the things to a peak.

(00:10:41):

But if we really are observant, if we look afterwards, is you do feel disconnected from your partner. And it is funny, and I've observed it in myself, especially in the early days of experimenting or even prior to experimenting, you're just like so plugged in and so involved, but the moment you have the peak, it's gone and you go like, what was all that about? So often sex does leave people in a disconnected state, and we know the jokes, men are snoring and, you know, loss of energy. Women also suddenly just kind of also fall out. They lose energy and there's often a sense of no fulfilment or feeling actually more lonely or abandoned. And so, so there's a lot of kind of emotional consequences to this, what I call peak and discharge style. And even while my one might not feel those immediately after, you know, there can be two or three days down the road where suddenly you get fall into a hole or go through a lot of self-doubt and so on.
 
 

(00:11:51):

So, you know, if we can reevaluate and rebuild sex on a different foundation, it becomes then something empowering, which generally speaking, it is not, it is a source of tremendous self-doubt. The thing about addressing sex is that it really reaches to the foundation of your energy system. It's in the base there. And when, you know, if you do something in the base, then that reflects all the way up in the higher levels. And it is interesting to me today, you know, there's so much available on, on, on tools and for self-transformation, and more and more people are coming up with all kinds of incredible things, but they don't address sex. And that is an area of such a lot of confusion. And if one can go into sex with curiosity, interest, awareness, it just changes your life. Because then that understanding, that connection with yourself and that trust in yourself, then that has a certain radiance.

(00:13:01):

You know, it just shows in everything else that you do, which can be as simple as walking through the supermarket, you know, <laugh> or standing at the catch. And I have been teaching couples now for over 25 years, and so many, so many report that their lives changed. And it is just, it is remarkable that the moment one brings this area into the light, because it is in the basement, it is a little dark. The moment you bring it into the light, then things start adjusting on, on other levels. And life has more of a flow, more of a joy, and people perceive it from the outside. You can walk past somebody in the street and you can see it.

Todd Zemek (00:13:45):

I'm so glad in terms of the timing of our conversation. In my development as a psychotherapist, sex is just not part of our training. Right. And so as you say, in terms of the mind, that's where it's, it's at. And I think that people do mistake that intensity for presence.

Diana Richardson (00:14:03):

Yes, yes.

Todd Zemek (00:14:05):

And there's such a hunger for that presence. And there's so much e emotional neglect throughout people's lives, which is such a wound that they carry, but none more so than around sex in that often there hasn't been anyone there. And there might be cultural differences around that as well, but it's such a common thing. So, so what I'm finding is that when people are having relational issues, we can hear their stories. But when it comes to sex, then we get to the truth. Diana curtain gets pulled back and often say like the, the tipping point is the word. Actually say,

Diana Richardson (00:14:42):

Oh,

Todd Zemek (00:14:43):

<Laugh> actually, if you want, know the truth, if you're really interested. And at first, when I started working with clients like that, I kind of felt like a voyeur. At least I was concerned that they would think I was a voyeur. But quite the opposite. It's, it's like, no, no, please, no, no one has been with this part of me.

Diana Richardson (00:15:00):

Right. And it's really, like you say, you know, in your, your own personal training, it was not, sex was not touched on.

Todd Zemek (00:15:07):

Completely absent.

Diana Richardson (00:15:08):

Yeah. And, and, but this is actually the truth through our lives, it's not touched on. So the situation, which is a problem, is that we are really operating on imprinting and conditioning, you know, which happens on an unconscious level, you know, the secrecy around sex. And it's always a little bit in the shadows. And this imprints us and then affects how we have sex. And that's why we all more or less have sex in the same way. So, and I think, you know, the reason, well, first of all, there's shame around sex. I mean, it's changing now with the generations and so on, but parents do not inform their children, but not the parents fault because the parents haven't a clue either. No <laugh>, yeah. Yeah. What to say,

Todd Zemek (00:15:56):

I guess traditionally sex was just considered a part of survival, propagation of the species. And then we're heading back generations where, you know, there were religious or, or moral fears around that as well. And so you, you're right there, there just hasn't been a, a safe base where we could slow down and be with one another.

Diana Richardson (00:16:15):

Right, right.

Todd Zemek (00:16:17):

Tell me a little bit more about, you know, you were telling me about how your relationship with men changed, how your relationship with women changed. In my work, I tend to focus on, on relationships. And so people are often very, very stuck. So my ears can't help but sort of pick up a little bit when I, when I hear you say that actually that I started seeing tangible changes in the way I turned up with both genders. Tell us some more about that.

Diana Richardson (00:16:41):

Yeah, I mean, you know, basically usually on a sexual level, if we attracted somebody, we like project something, you know, we try and be attractive. It's, it's more like an outward thing. And this, you know, what we exchanged an email about, we have a sexual personality and we, we, you know, we dress, especially women, dress in a certain way and people even stand in a certain way, but it's all a projection. It's nothing to do with actually what you carry inside. So I just noticed that I could be more simple with men, more natural with men when I embrace them. And this could be any friends. Cause the kind of community I was living in, there was a lot of hugging, which was divine, you know, is just not to be up and over them, but to turn in and down and just be more present.

(00:17:35):

And the moment I did that is like, wow, there's a real flow here. And the man could perceive it. And that what was so interesting for me was even if a man doesn't know anything about other ways of being in the body or in sex, me as a woman, I found that actually if I went into that space immediately, the other one would come. Now, I did have some experience to to, to build that, but you know, these, this is often how spiritual masters work. It's their presence that brings people into the present, into, into meditation.

Todd Zemek (00:18:12):

I can't help but think of the single women who are listening to this. And this is, this is something, you know, that, that women bring to me on a regular basis, is having that difficulty connecting, attracting at a deeper level.

Diana Richardson (00:18:26):

Yes. And you know, I, it is interesting because I have been working for couples, like I said, for a long time. But then more recently I started to work with women, like for the last 15 years. And I do women's workshops, and basically I retrain women to be in the body and more connected with their inner world and to f feel from the inside out. Now look, I do this with the couples also, but because of women's particular situation, well, I'm a woman and that, that that's easier for me to work with women alone. You know, many women are without partners. Now, there's a lot of different reasons for this, but I do these five day workshops, and really afterwards I receive messages from so many women saying, I found a boyfriend. Because there's this kind of quality of sweetness and innocence that just radiates.

(00:19:16):

And also when you bring the bodies together, you take your attention in, you soften your body, you stand on two feet. I mean, most of us are standing totally out of alignment, all the way more on one leg. This totally affects our presence. So, you know, my work is, is not a psychological work. It's really, if you make a shift in your body that changes. It has an impact on the psychology. And we don't really take the body seriously, you know, it's more incidental, basically. We use our minds, our bodies to carry around our minds. It's just tiny, tiny little shifts of awareness that anchor you more in from on the inside. And then this has, has a quality.

Todd Zemek (00:20:05):

If women were listening and they were interested in cultivating that, I guess they could fly to Switzerland and meet with you if that commute was a little bit of a challenge. Are there any suggestions they could start to play with if they were curious?

Diana Richardson (00:20:23):

Well, I would definitely say, you know, read some of my books because it's, it's an information that, that we are, are missing. And simple things like stand always with your weight. 50 50, feel your midline. I always encourage people to men and women, you know, so these are not different, it's just, we're talking about women right now. Yes, I always tell people, look inside your body and find a place that feels like home to you or that a place that you can easily connect with from the inside. And then you use that as a reference point. So whenever you find that you are in thought or concern or whatever, you, you fall back to your body because the body is the only thing that exists in the present. That is how we, we establish presence. So for women in particular, you know, there's a lot of focus on the clitoris and so on, and it's considered the centre of female sexuality.

(00:21:20):

However, this is one of the biggest misunderstandings with men and definitely with women. Because in a female body, sexual energy in a woman is raised through the breasts, not through the clitoris. Now there's a big explanation, which I won't go into now, but it's to do with the, the magnetism within the bodies. Because in men, in different men and women, it's different when you wanna actually thinks about the breasts, you know, they are life sustaining, they nourish other lives. So it's a, it's a very vital pole. And it's more like the vagina is more the receptive pole. Like I I said earlier, you know, she receives, when we play with the clitoris, this changes the whole receptivity in the vagina. In fact, the vagina gives very needy and hungry. And all of us women know that there's like this kind of demanding feeling in the vagina, which of course then impacts the penis and also can easily encourage a man to have an ejaculation.

(00:22:20):

Whereas when women start to pay attention to the breasts, and I'm not talking about stimulating the nipples or anything, it's more like from the inside going into the breasts, melting with them, merging with them, then what one experiences is a more full body opening. So from there, there will be anex sometime it's not like instant different with every woman. Then there will be this resonance down in the vagina where she starts to open and actually has this longing for men to be inside. Rather than usually women are saying, oh, okay, you know, you ready? I'm ready. Whereas all women know that they would like more time. So now, you know, I am talking about the male female connections. So coming back to women individually, if they start to meditate on their breasts, meaning you hold your breasts for half an hour a day, you know, it can be before you sleep or you can make it a special meditation, but start to re, I call it repolarize, but bring more awareness into the breasts and start to see that as your source of energy. And often why sex is unsatisfying for women. And also why many, many women lose interest in insects with a partner, a male partner is because, you know, when it's all clitoris oriented, it's engaging the body at a quite a superficial level. Look, it's enjoyable, it's nice and everything. So I'm not saying it's not valid, but it's a superficial level. But when one comes, you know, up into the breast and the body opens in totality, then it brings a completely different quality into the sexual exchange. Women then begin to participate and really get engaged.

Todd Zemek (00:24:13):

That's fascinating. So you're suggesting that one of the foundational experiences is for women to have that solo meditation. If you're like, oh, that solo bodily awareness with that positive pole of the breasts. I'm imagining if some of those experiences with self haven't been cultivated, then there might be the potential for a disconnect. If she was jumping in with a partner and then following expectations that were coming from somewhere other than within.

Diana Richardson (00:24:46):

If she has a regular partner, you know, then it's obviously something that can be incorporated because men can also support women to come into the breasts. Not through stimulation, but just through holding and helping a woman to enter that hole. Now a lot of women carry tremendous sadness in this area. Men equally have a lot of sadness around sex and so on. But, so what can come up is sadness and tears and so on. But it's so important to allow these things just to flow because it's like a healing lifting off of tensions, memories, sadness, and so on, which are reducing our access to this area. So very often women will say, I can't feel anything, you know, even to feel that you can't feel that can bring things up. And that's a good inquiry. Why it's, why can't I feel? But not to go into it an analytical way, but just to allow how it feels not to feel, which is usually sadness.

(00:25:47):

So if a woman does this on her own, it will support if she has a regular partner. But if she is a single woman, then if she does this repeatedly with herself on a daily basis, she will start to feel subtle changes in her body. And again, this gives more confidence, more anchoring, and then she just carries a different quality about her. You see, what's happened to women generally speaking is we are pretty hard. So we've become hardened, and many of us are born a little bit hard because of the, the history of women with the high level of use, women f feeling used and abused, and exploitation of women. This is not in any way to, to put a blame on men, it's to do just with a high level of unconsciousness in the whole field for many women's sexes to do with duty,

Todd Zemek (00:26:43):

Talking about the breasts as a positive pole for women. And that there is a means of reengaging with self and keen to actually show respect for this experience for single women. Because often they're, they're really struggling, as you say, the, the body is part of the experience of, of us. That's, that's often so neglected. And there are so many stories about the fact that, well, why aren't I attractive? Why aren't I, I, I'm, I'm this, I'm that. I've achieved this, but this area of my life is just so, so stuck to hear you speaking like this is something that's certainly very new to me. And I imagine to many women listening, if they were looking for a starting point or a way of doing things differently, it would be a, a safe curiosity Yes. That they could start to inquire and play with.

Diana Richardson (00:27:31):

Yes, absolutely. And you know this point about we've become hardened, so we've lost our femininity that has this pool that draws the male energy. So it's not like you can do that become feminine. It's just like if you get more in your body, you know, I always say to women in my groups, you know, femininity is not something you do. Femininity is something you are something that you be as soon as you enter the body. So because of the history of women, and we are, we do carry this level of hardness and defensiveness and protectiveness, but if we start to work with ourselves and you know, start to open up more to what I call the inner body, this changes the whole flavour of a woman. And that hardness, that protective layer, that defensive layer, you know, kind of melts away. Now for sure what I call doing a breast meditation is good.

(00:28:29):

I actually have a guided breast meditation for women. But that is not, you don't need somebody to guide you. You just, you know, hold the breasts and so on. But certainly, you know, the more massage we receive, the more stuff we do for our bodies. Now often the stuff we do for our bodies is more externally oriented. And one can see this in the face lifts and all the breast enhancements and so on. But the energy doesn't change. And so what you want is a shift, shift in the energy. I do think there is a lot that single women can do for themselves, but it is, it's like to take away from this, you know, sexual personality or, or, or sexual persona also the way you dress. You know, sometimes it's so provocative the way women dress. Like I know in Australia sometimes I'm saying like, whoa, you know, but it is a hot country <laugh> in women, we dress like that to get attention.

(00:29:29):

So like the moment we get attention from the outside, we feel, oh, I'm worth it. Like I remember living in Italy, you know, it's very much like communal life there, you know, each, every little village has a, and all the women are inside, all the old boys are sitting on the benches outside <laugh>. And I remember, you know, and this was like in my early forties, look, I started to explore when I was like 31, 32. Now I'm 66. So it's been, you know, many years involved in this whole story. So then I must have been, I guess like early forties. And I noticed that even when an old boy sitting on the bench in the piazza gave me a little look how I felt validated <laugh>.

(00:30:11):

So as women, we do project ourselves in that way. Or even if you're not, you know, men will look at you sometimes, but often if we invite a certain energy, that is not really what we want. Basically what we want is a longing for love. That is the longing. So any attention we get, we will interpret this as like, I'm worth loving. But more is, you know, to develop a level of self-love. Now we hear this word self-love. If we don't really know what it means. And honestly when we start to bring our awareness really into the body, and this is equally true for men on a more cellular level, then any place that feels good, feels warm, feels sparkling in your body, this is love present within you. So it's not, you know, our impression of love is, is to do with somebody outside, you know, and so easily in one window out the other window.

(00:31:16):

But actually love is a quality we are born in and with. And it shows itself in these very, very fine, delicate feelings in the body. You know, normally we so outside of ourselves that we don't notice those or value them. But if you can start just any place that has a good sweet feeling, know that is love within you. And then with the awareness, you start to nourish that. And you know, the body linked with awareness is awesome because the body experiences your awareness. Then these, these things, these small little things, then they just start to expand and radiate through the bodies

Todd Zemek (00:32:20):

So that's a relationship that we're trying to cultivate as well is between awareness, consciousness, the sweetness for example, you're talking about in the body. And I guess that could be a really conscious practice that you'd actually keep an eye out for a little smile <laugh>. Yes. Or or a of something like that. You'd be making space slowing down sufficiently to catch those things. And then I imagine to savour.

Diana Richardson (00:32:47):

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And because we kind of only interested in, in big I intense experiences, we kind of just override those. So that's why, you know, definitely the whole work is about the shift from sensation to sensitivity and to start to give value to the small things. And not only just we are looking for a big blowout and definitely there's an individual, this is something one can cultivate on one's own, but it does require more to take the awareness in and down into the body.

Todd Zemek (00:33:21):

So bringing it in and, and down into the body, I guess there could be an individual intention and then an intention as a couple. Yes. That there would be savouring, celebration, sharing, curiosity, humour. Yes, there'd be lots of opportunities. Yes.

Diana Richardson (00:33:39):

Yeah. Yes, no, absolutely. And when a couple do, you know, develop this thing of their attention being more in the body, then they're just more kind of authentic and in the moment. And as you know, humour is, is just one of the things because things are funny sometimes, you know, even if they go wrong, they're funny.

Todd Zemek (00:33:57):

They'd just be so much opportunity. There'd be so much more diversity of experiences to enjoy, including all the nuance or all the subtlety or all the surprise. That would be a pleasure to sort of travel through that together. So, it's lovely in, terms of expectation, you, you provide some new frames for that when you suggest to couples book out a few hours for this experience. Yes. Rather than just the standard connection, which may have been handed to you rather than something that you'd explored together. Even that frame offers the opportunity for, oh this is, this is different.

Diana Richardson (00:34:39):

Yes, no, absolutely. One has to prioritise. You know, life is tremendously busy and many people have children and they seem to put the priority on the business, the business and the children. But one has to cultivate as parents especially, or any couple really time for yourselves and, and making a space, you know, two, three hours is, is awesome. And you know, for women, while you know, the energy raising pole is the breasts for men is in the perineum, which is like the root of the penis. Like if as a man you track your penis back, you'll feel how the tissues arise from the perineum. And just for clarification, for people listening, it's just this space, you know, just in front of the anus. And that is like the root of the penis. So men have the tendency to be more focused on the head of the penis, you know, which is natural because that's where most of the sensation or the is experienced.

(00:35:42):

But if you bring it more down to the root, then this brings a whole different energy into the exchange because it's more from the inside out rather than just looking for something more on the outside. In a way, men can also do this in the same way as women start to anchor, do meditation on the perineum. Now this not so women, it's easier to hold the breasts if they wish men is a bit of a reach to get the perineum, but just to, you know, put the hand on the groins or hold the side of the thighs or something, but start to anchor more in the root of their system. We can say. So as a couple, you know, you can lay down, you can both do that and then you for half an hour and then you slowly, slowly turn to each other. And yeah, just more follow the bodies, caressing, touching, not so much intention

Todd Zemek (00:36:37):

That would be so radically new for so many people. I see what happens when couples work with me. If I work with them individually, we might talk about something and like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know these are insightful people, but when we bring it into the body, it's different. And then when we bring it into the body in the presence of this person they love, it's completely different when we, when we really slow it down and come into the body. So actually, structuring just as a frame to give people a, you know, a rough scaffold to get started, spending 30 minutes just with that touch, that massage slowing down to be present and curious about that. That's going to bring up so many things for so many people. I can just imagine. Tears, discomfort, anxiety, all sorts of things about what am I doing? Am I doing this right? Am I worthy of this? There could be so, you know, rich and challenging,

Diana Richardson (00:37:42):

Right? You know, for sure things can come up, but you know, there is one, one can start to feel a little bit vulnerable, but when you're vulnerable, you open, you know, and normally we protect against vulnerability, so we harden ourselves cause we don't want to feel insecure. But actually when we are in that insecurity, we are more open and it requires courage. But only really in those moments are we really standing in our lives. Usually we are covering up any feelings of insecurity and vulnerability. I think it is so healing to just start in a simple way with the body. And you start to feel that actually it gives you a confidence and if things come up, you know, it is just to let them flow through. There is a tendency when suddenly if tears come, like why am I crying? And that is really not necessary.

(00:38:35):

In fact, it is a, a distraction because who knows where it's coming from. There could be 1,001 reasons. Sometimes a person will get a very clear point, they will see a picture or something and they that is the root of that injury or that trauma or that insecurity. But we, it's so important to trust the body because awareness is a healing force. So as soon as we bring awareness into the body, it will start to displace things that are in, in the way of a free flowing system. So you just let them through if it's tears or suddenly a scream or if it's anger, you know, there's a lot of anger associated with sex. And Barry Long said something very fascinating was that all anger integration is related to sexual frustration. And actually when you look at the way conventionally we have sex, there is a lot of fr frustration associated because we are not really experiencing a fulfilment.

(00:39:38):

We are doing the same thing thousands of times in the same way again and again. But there's not really this feeling of being connected and feeling enriched by the experience. So with anger, suddenly anger is, is there, you know, you disconnect. You just stand beside the bed and just jump up and down and shout a little bit, you know, let it through. Don't try and understand when it's cleared, you move back to bed. Another thing Barry Long said and took me a long time to, well it helped me a lot, he said, if you catch any feeling at its root at its source and allow it, it'll just last seven or eight seconds. Usually you will experience any disturbance in the solar plexus area. It can also be the belly. So in that way, this is why body awareness is so vital. So you start to feel something rising and you just stay with it and let it through.

(00:40:36):

So even, and I've experienced that so many times and actually therapists used to tell me that I was blocked because I couldn't get into my feelings and have big freakouts. But then through this statement of Barry Long, you know, I realized, ah, I'm catching things at the source I didn't realize. So, I would get these kind of massage sessions because I've had thousands of hours of body work. It's, it's just lovely, you know, you feel, oh yes, oh, finally I'm going to have a big cry, you know, seven seconds later it's gone. And I used to think, what's wrong with me? So that really helped me to understand my situation with, with my body and, and accessing things at the source. The thing is just to let things through as they arise, you know? And, and as far as anger goes, you know, you never project it on another person, you turn away and you really move it for yourself because the situation might trigger it.

(00:41:35):

But ultimately it's anger within oneself and it's so easy with anger to be projected and then it becomes toxic and aggressive in that sense. You know, what is extremely valuable is for people to understand the difference between feelings and emotions. And this is a distinction that Barry Long made clear to me. And actually I have written a book about that. I have a chapter in all my books because it's so important to understand the difference because, you know, there are certain it's, it's, you know, quite a lot to explain in this moment. But the difference in emotion is, and feeling is that feeling is something that arises in the moment. Okay? Now, as a society, we are not encouraged to allow our feelings on the contrary, we have to suppress them. So any suppressed feeling then turns into emotion. So from childhood onwards, this has been happening. So we have a huge backpack of unexpressed feelings. So in the here and now with a partner, someone, you know, your partner can say something to you that will trigger a whole story, you know, which is totally disproportional to the actual situation. So the moment emotion comes in, meaning that the past memories or is being accessed, there's this instant feeling of disconnection. You can't look the other person in the eyes,

Todd Zemek (00:43:01):

No, the protective parts come up.

Diana Richardson (00:43:03):

Yeah. The moment you see, you can't look someone in the eyes know that you are in emotion. In other words, it's not to do with now to do with something in the past. Another thing emotion will always do is blame the other person as being responsible for your unhappiness. There's a whole list. I mean, Barry Long gave one or two, but then I have developed that and there's like so many different symptoms. Emotions are very self-righteous. Emotions try and change the other person in emotion, you feel like a victim in emotion you doubt. So if you start to recognize these symptoms, then you know that it's not to do with this love. Now this relationship and the presence, something from the past is being provoked. And then of course there's a way of working with that. The most fundamental way is just to acknowledge that you're emotional, which is very difficult because the ego's like, you know, and then you just say, I need some time for myself. And then you spend a little time to alone. And one of the easiest ways is to, to bring the body into movement and discharge those toxins.

Todd Zemek (00:44:10):

It sounds like sex could be a personal development lab that we're doing these experiments at observing, and that there'd be the opportunity to, to meet, you know, feelings at the root and, and then to introduce your partner to where they come up and how to be present. And if it is turning into emotion, then, then it could clarify that, okay, there's, there's something here that, that I could work on, which would be a supportive experience as well.

Diana Richardson (00:44:39):

You spot on that because really when you're go into sex more consciously and then deal also, you know, there's feelings, emotions, thing you change as a person and people kind of think, oh, it's all a technique, it's not a technique. And that is why, you know, if, like I said previously, you know, there's so much going on in in the spiritual world and transformational world, but when you really get down to the root of it, it changes really fundamental, basic things. And then you change, you know, as a result. And the most important thing is to know that he awareness is a healing force and an integrating force and an empowering force. And it will lift things off. But if one has perspective on it and understand what's happening, it's awesome. It's awesome. And sorry, just to go back to this, you know, the feelings and emotions, we might change partners, but we'll end up having the same story with a partner.

(00:45:34):

We'll say the same word, you know? Yes. So it really just shows, it's something more to do with what's happened to us in our past than this moment. And the importance of recognizing the difference is because that means we can separate this love in the present from the past because when feelings are suppressed, they turn toxic. And when we get emotional, we are highly toxic. And I'm sure everyone can recognize that we kind of like filled with poison and we say poisonous things so often this will destroy the love in the present. We say things, we do things that we could regret for the rest of our lives. So that's, that's really why it's so helpful to, to have an understanding on this emotional aspect.

Todd Zemek (00:46:21):

Tell me a little bit about what happens within retreats. I imagine that you've seen so many stories and transformations, and I'm wondering what, what are some of the common trajectories that that happen for couples throughout the course of a retreat? Either stumbling blocks or, you know, miraculous moments or,

Diana Richardson (00:46:46):

Well, the, the first thing to say is that many couples come to the retreat in a state of disconnection. Not everybody, of course, but many times they're thinking of, oh, maybe we don't fit together or maybe this doesn't work. And considering divorcing and our retreat is the last stop. And by the way, Janet McGeever does making love retreats in Australia, and she's an excellent, excellent teacher. And she actually does the retreat in exactly the same style we do. So she's authorized to take over our design and everything. Will people come in a state of disconnection? And because the whole approach is very body oriented, not analyzing problems or looking at the problems, the thing is to bring the couples back each individual to themselves. So in the retreat, it's not a group experience, meaning it's not a group process that we all do together. It's like each couple does it between themselves and also with themselves in an individual.

(00:47:44):

So the very first thing is to start to establish that inner body contact. And that's done, you know, in very subtle, delicate ways, supported by body work, tai chi, different movement, meditations, so that people start to come back to themselves. Now that requires awareness, right? And the thing is, when you start to connect with yourself, you establish as a byproduct a connection with the other person. So the closer you get to yourself, the closer you get to the other person. I'm amazed how it works. You know, very soon, within two, three days, now parallel to this, we are also giving guidance about lovemaking. Try this, try that, and it, it goes on, on, on a deepening levels and so on. But how suddenly you can see the love flowing between the people, and this is without dealing with the problems, without having free cards. And you can see the love and suddenly people look beautiful and they start to radiate.

(00:48:48):

And often, you know, participants at the end will say, well, you know, I'm looking around now and all of us look amazing. It is a shift that happens so quickly because we stay with the body, we stay with the body, we stay with the body and create a new relationship there. And you know, many couples do say it has changed their relationship profoundly. It was a life-changing experience. Many couples stay together when they were thinking of leaving. Sometimes people do separate. But what is interesting and fascinated, me and my partner in the beginning was the people who come back is the men with the new partner as soon as possible. Now there can be reasons for this that men find partners, female partners more easily, et cetera, et cetera. Or if a man says to a woman, ah, there's a retreat, I want to go seven days.

(00:49:44):

A a woman will say, yeah, sure. Whereas if a woman says to a man, I want to go for a love retreat for seven days, you know, it's likely to be met with skepticism. Although, you know, for sure women have come back with new partners, but just the proportion is quite different. So men recognize the value of learning this more kind of body anchored approach, women being more receptive and absorbing, you know, not kind of all over. And also, you know, men carry tremendous performance pressure in sex, fear about not getting erection, then fear about losing it, you know, wanting to keep it and, and losing it. So for men, very often, you know, then they don't want to come too early. They want the woman, you know, so there's a lot of movies going on for men that totally, totally impacts their presence. So when you start to explain sex in a different way and take away those pressures, like you don't have to come in fact not coming as great, you know, you know, or then men feel tremendously relieved, you know, that they can just be natural.

(00:50:52):

They, they don't have to have an erection. If they don't have an erection. There's also a possibility of soft penetration or relaxed entry. It is possible to put the penis in the vagina in a relaxed state. You know, little technique, you've got a women puts it in, usually there's a side position and little lubrication, the labia and the entrance to the vagina. The penis. And you can walk the penis in to the vagina and then relax, but stay present. And is the case that very often people can't feel anything, especially men because they're so used to the penis has lost sensitivity. Women are much more easily able to perceive fine subtle things. But if a couple is really present in love, you know, with eye contact and you can also communicate, sharing what's happening in the present. Very often there can be, and it's so hard to say this kind of a thing because it creates expectations, but a spontaneous erection within the vagina, which is just like, it's awesome.

(00:51:52):

It just like the penis turns into like a snake and the kind of wines up into the vagina. And it's not to do the excitement, it's not to do with any pressure, it's just this organic exchange. So much is possible that will reduce women men's performance pressure. And actually, and I check always with the groups and the men in my groups with my partner and I, you know, we're talking about direction and so on. And because of the fear of not getting erection or when you've got one of losing it, men want to get inside women's right away, but it's too fast for women generally speaking. So if a man just lets that go down and stays connected and you know, kissing, cuddling and whatever, whatever very often there will be an erection out of love. Now, when I ask the men in the group, which of you men have experienced an erection coming from love rather than excitement, you know, they all put up their hands.

Todd Zemek (00:52:52):

It's one of the ironies. I think if we're shifting from performance to presence, guys want to know that they're performing well with their presence <laugh>. So any ideas like that that actually assist with, I'm not doing a bad job. H how do I do this? What's the expectation just to get them started?

Diana Richardson (00:53:10):

No, no, it is interesting because my partner always, Michael, he always says this, you know, it's like in the conventional frame, you want to be a good lover and then you want to practice with tran and you want to be the perfect trich lover immediately, you know, so one just has to take it with understanding and, and, and step by step and equally women is also dealing with presence and so on. But you know, it's just to treat it as an exploration like a little scientist, you know, a scientist doesn't do experiment once and say, this is the conclusion. You know, you do it thousands of times and then you say, ah, okay, now we are ready to draw some kind of conclusions. But again, it comes back to this vulnerability, you know, just allowing oneself to feel insecure and feelings come up around that.

(00:54:02):

But I think it's a lot simpler once one gets into it, you know, when thinking about it's like, oh no, you know, the thing is it's nourishing, it's fun, it opens a whole new window to life. I mean, you know, the age range and in our retreats is actually from 18 years old to 80 years old, lot of the people are more like forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, you know, and certainly in, in the, the autumn, late summer of people's lives, even the winter things are closing down and it just opens another window. And also, it enables you to have sex, you know, through this relaxed entry or self-penetration because many men do experience erection difficulties. So it kind of overcomes that. I mean, the oldest couple actually we had, she was 78 and he was 82 and it changed their lives. And the amazing thing was that the, the last day of the retreat, this 82 year old man says, this is the seven most important days of my life.

(00:55:09):

Which is awesome to reach that age and be that open and curious. I'm sure he meant it. Yes, yes, no, but I mean it just, he absolutely did. But that you can make such a statement, it just is a reflection of how important it is to as young as possible install a new understanding. And that is why recently had a book published in English for young Adults. It's a synopsis of, because that's my eighth book. So I've written several and there's a congruence in the sexual material in all of them because it would, you know, it is what it is. It's not like it changes, it's more that each book has a different like angle on it. So I did do this young book for young adults called Cool Sex, really to encourage young ones to start exploring because okay, we do have the impact of pornography at present, which is kind of rewiring people's brains, which is not great. I'm not saying pornography is wrong, but then that becomes one's expectation around the whole thing, how it should look and how it should be. And pressure on both sides forgetting, you know, that of course that's just like a show. Somebody's doing an act

Todd Zemek (00:56:30):

And then a lot of young people are actually meeting on apps where they don't have to interact right, or sit with any uncertainty whatsoever. So the programming of porn and then just jumping into situations without any relational, you know, doubt or uncertainty or learning how to be with yourself or someone else.

Diana Richardson (00:56:50):

Yes,

Todd Zemek (00:56:50):

Yes. I can see why you know, a book like that would be so, so helpful.

Diana Richardson (00:56:54):

And also, you know, when we are younger, and this, I've noticed in my groups, like the more you have sex in the conditioned way, the way we receive unconsciously imprinted, we become less and less fluid as we get older. And the, I've noticed that the couples who are younger who come like in their twenties, early thirties, they get it much more quickly because there is still a level of fluidity. Whereas the older you get, you get identified with, this is me, this is what I like, this is what I want. So like the window for experimentation, it starts to close down <laugh>.

Todd Zemek (00:57:32):

I got to admit I was a little bit jealous of the young people reading that book when you, you'd sent me through some material about I'm exploring this in my forties, and it's been it's been wonderful. I think it's changing me as well, but yes, I felt jealous of, oh God, I wish I could have gone back in time and and had access to that. That's

Diana Richardson (00:57:50):

So sweet. Yeah, and really that is, I've always thought, you know, even that I'd been working with adults and so on and written books towards the adult audience. Of course young people can read those, but they're just a little bit more detailed. Whereas the cool sex book is more just like point, point, point, point. So I've always wanted to write because it's always been clear to me, the earlier we learned this, the better. That's why it's taken a long time. But in collaboration with a girlfriend in or former student in Holland, we did this book because she has young ones and I don't by choice have children and so on. And it's really good that the young ones and even those older ones get alternatives, you know, otherwise it's just one track and it's a very narrow track because like I said previously, you know, we do the same thing again and again and again and again. And there's not, we are very fragile on that road. It's what we know, it's what works for us to a lesser or greater degree. Yeah, yeah. So the younger the better, but you are never too old to learn, like in your forties. That's awesome. That's

Todd Zemek (00:58:56):

All very true. Yeah, very true. I definitely think reading your books is a wonderful experience because it gives people time to digest. They can start to integrate, absorb some of these ideas, think about it, talk about it, and then they've got some new ideas and some language around it. So yeah, I, I would highly encourage people to explore some of your books and yeah. And to get, to make a start there. Yes, yes. No, it is a good idea to inform oneself in some way and not just take things for granted. Like this is what we've inherited a great introduction into what's possible and this new world that's just not so far away. And when you, when you talk about the joy that you see and the, the love that you see people lighting up on these retreats after a few days, the flip side is the absence of that.

(00:59:44):

And that's where we see this dystonic flatness in people just sort of feeling hollow and the drudgery of life without that joy, having that invitation is just so, so important. Yeah. Well, with the, is there anything else you'd like to add or to tell us about before we wrap up? It's been so good. I mean, there's 101 been so enriching talking with you. I'm really grateful, but you know, we can talk again another time, <laugh>. Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah. Thank you so much Diana. Yeah. And you know what I really appreciate about you is your level of engagement and you know, in the sense of you exploring and also your tremendous understanding through your own background and training and so on. So we can have a really great conversation <laugh>.

(01:00:27):

For sure. For sure. I love the fact we can, you know, integrate and meet these different parts and as someone is coming from a traditional training, it's so wonderful to be able to introduce patients to Oh, if you considered this <laugh>, and then to be able to meet someone like you and, and you know, someone that you really trust who's walked that path and is, is definitely the real deal. So, yes. And you know, I would really, really encourage anyone listening to this to come to you and also to go to Janet McGeever with her Making Love retreat at www.janetmcgeever.com. Yeah. Well, all, all three of us. All three of us. Yeah. But you know, that's why Janet started, you know, she came here several times. Yeah. It's amazing. She's like about 20 minutes away from me. Fantastic. I had looked at your website and saw the little Australian flag and Okay. And I had a look at for her on Google and yeah, virtually neighbours. That's how you came to, to know her. Yes. Oh, I see. You didn't know previously. Oh, good. Must been a joy. Thank you so much. Yeah, take care, Diana.