Interview with Pat Cleveland and Guest Sally Spencer - The Balanced Horse Project

Interview with Pat Cleveland and Guest Sally Spencer- The Balanced Horse Project
I'm very pleased to announce an interview with Pat Cleveland - The Balanced horse Project  Alabama (USA) and her guest client, Sally Spencer from the UK.

I've had the pleasure of chatting with Pat on a few occasions as a guest but in this episode we'll see how the process worked from one of her clients point of view (Sally is located in the UK) so that we can get a different perspective from both sides.

Pat is an energetic and funny lady and her conversations usually take on a world of their own.

I'm was so looking forward to hearing all about Pat's recent travels and the horses and people she met along the way.

Pat is a delight and so was her guest Sally.
So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Note:
This audio was taken from the live video version, some of the content is based around viewers being able to see the diagrams (photos of horses)
If you wish to see the images for reference, you can find them on the YouTube video link below.

I also wish to apologise before hand for some of the audio quality (mainly my own) due to my mic switching to the dest top not my main mic.

You can still hear the main participants, Pat and Sally, so I hope it doesn't spoil the essence of this session.

Pat Cleveland.
Horses are Pat Cleveland’s life, her muses and teachers.
The power of natural balance is magic to trainers, riders and most importantly horses.

Pat started the Balanced Horse Project to document how balance solved her horse’s problems.
A series of rabbit holes lead to the influence of birth trauma developed the crooked horse’s behaviour, physical limitations and learning.

She studied with the Resonant Science Foundation, the Berkeley Psychic Institute, Cherokee Shaman, Holistic Vet, Historical symbols, earned certifications in 12 holistic therapies, and is recognised as a Universal Energetic.
People bring horses to her in Dothan Alabama where horses unwind their bodies and restore body symmetry.

Whether a Mustang or purebred, once liberated from fear and pain, they go on to live better as natural sustainable horses.
International Consulting, classes and discussions on Zoom, clinics and workshops and travel worldwide.

https://www.facebook.com/thebalancedh...
http://www.thebalancedhorseproject.net/ 
Email: Bhpcleveland@gmail.com

Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
https://www.youtube.com/@equinevoicesuk
https://www.instagram.com/equinevoices.uk

Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Interview with Pat Cleveland and Guest - Sally Spencer

Ronnie: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome my name is Ronnie and welcome to Pat Cleveland and her guest, Sally Spencer, now Sally Is based in the UK and she's been working with Pat and her horses.

I'm really interested to hear this conversation because not only has she had Pat working with the horses, but also she's had an animal communicator working with the horses, which she had previously so it's really interesting because we've got the horse's point of view, so it's not just Pat's, it's not just Sally's, it's the horses and other people too. 

I'm going to bring Pat in and she's going to do a brief introduction and then I'll bring Sally in she can introduce herself and then we can see where this conversation goes. 

Pat: Okay. I'm trying to behave myself I'm Pat Cleveland and I'm an intuitive horse trainer. I've taken my empathic skills or gifts and [00:01:00] applied them to listen to horses and translating the language of the nonverbal. Into providing us with physical evidence or things to look at as a physical language to help us understand where horses are having their limitations and how those limitations can be naturally reversed so the horse can regain his genetic quality of symmetry, which I find as a horse trainer is my primary goal to create a balanced horse. 

So I'm the founder of the Balanced Horse Project, which is located in Dothan, Alabama. I have an old website, which we're making over. The old site is called the Balanced Horse Project. Dot net. You can find me on Facebook at the Balanced Horse Project, and we will have a new website opening up in August called Hidden Horse and it's about kind of the story of the ugly duckling, [00:02:00] how you can take your horse with problems and make 'em into a beautiful and amazing individual. So that's about me. 

Ronnie: Pat I love chatting with you and it's ages since we've done interview, your energy just jumps off the page, you've got big heart and big energy field. So what I'll do is I will bring in Sally and as I mentioned earlier, Sally is one of Pat's UK clients because she has other UK clients too. And she can explain how she was aware of Pat and how her horses were before and then we'll get a more into the work that Pat's done. 

Sally: Hello. Thank you very much. I'm very glad to be here. Thank you very much. Thank you. So you want to hear a bit about me then? Obviously an older horse gal, my interests with horses have always been about the communication side with them, how they feel soft and easy with everything. In my... [00:03:00] Oh, probably by the time I was 30, I became a Morgan horse breeder because I had a very nice little Morgan horse stallion and so working with foals and things was fantastic because they taught you a lot about how not to do things with tack and whatever and just work with yourself. That led me on to quite a few stories that led me going down a route of horsemanship still, I find very few people know about which is called feel and release which came from the Dorrance brothers, namely Bill Dorrance. And so that's really been a huge part of my life as to how the help forces feel that things were really easy and that you could have this reciprocal relationship with them and of course, feel takes you into many levels of yourself. You know, your physical self, your spiritual self, your emotional self, and, and mindfulness, of course. So but I had this after we moved down into Cumbria, we're in North Cumbria, moved down from South [00:04:00] Lanarkshire in Scotland to North Cumbria.

Through what turned out to be quite a wet farm. My horses had experienced some trimming problems that had happened with the salve trimming that had happened here, and really threw me for a loop because a lot of things changed for them, for their posture, and for them being on wet ground and things like that it seemed to get worse.

So I kept thinking that this was like a farm fault, you know, that this was the influence and felt terrible that... I had created that. And this is of importance because the the experiences that I've had through Pat with my horses created something completely different that I never expected I would feel.

So when I started I have a pattern that I seem to attract horses that need help and they just find me and and it became so repetitive you know, we lost some, some had to be put to sleep and things like this, that to various things that happened [00:05:00] that I became quite dejected with it.

And I started to notice this pattern that if I took on a horse, it You know, it would have been in some work or something that when it came to me, I decided I'd like to give it a rest and let it socialize. And I like to have the horses get to know me to know what their, you know, what their names are, to be able to reply to that, to have freedom all over the place and get used to places so that they wouldn't go into the zone and be worried or frightened or, you know, anything like this and everything became something they could make a choice about.

So anyway, what happened was. That they all seem to crash. That suddenly their postures would become what looked to me worse. Their soundness didn't seem as good. Their feet problems seemed to be harder to deal with. And I just kept asking myself this question. What on earth's going on?

Why is, why is this happening? Nobody could really [00:06:00] tell me. I must have gone through, I don't know, how many body workers and all sorts of people. To help me discover why they were having these problems. And I'm telling, sort of talking about this without giving any specific history of any horse, because that, that would take forever, you know, it would take a long time.

So anyway, when I came across Pat, I was... It's really sort of thinking I'm getting somewhere, but it's, it's not really enough. And I bought a, a horse that was going to hit hard times if I didn't buy it down in Wales. So I, I brought him home and realized there was a lot more going on for him then I probably could have imagined.

And he'd been very restricted. He'd gone from looking a perky youngster to... A horse who people thought his head was too high, for instance. So they had put him in a western tack, which is bridging, and rode him in a shank bit with his nose on the floor. And it just destroyed everything. His core muscles, his [00:07:00] thoracic sling, everything.

So I kept trying to figure out how to help. So, one day I was looking at Facebook, and suddenly this page came up, the Balanced Horse Project. And the words alone pulled me in and I started to read a little bit and started poking around, found facts, websites, saw the photographs, the stories about the foal that started realigning itself.

And I realized at the time that I wasn't being told, you know, all the information wasn't there. And I kept poking, I listened to the podcast that you've done and done with Pat and Kathy Price and and Lady in New Zealand. That was really fun because she was such a skeptic. That was really good.

And so contacted. I felt really excited because energy has been you know, learning more about energy has been a big part of my life and I'm very intuitive and empathic. So to me, it felt more like home, but I, I get it for a [00:08:00] lot of other people. It might be something else entirely. So Pat and I communicated and at around the same time, this black mare I have Morgan mare, who's like my Oracle.

Started dictating all these diagrams, and I was getting excited, and it was two days to go for this the meet and greet chat that Pat and I were having, and I got this incredible, still makes my hair stand on end, I had this incredible surge of excitement, like, wee hee, you know, like being in the middle of a sunbeam, and I just thought, this is going to be something else, this is more my, you know, my way, this is going to be great.

And of course, Pat and I started talking, I suppose we're both talkers, so that was quite funny because we're trying to get each our own thing in there. And I just dearly wanted to show her these drawings that Missy had given us, you see. So and that, [00:09:00] that was just fabulous because it meant a lot.

And Pat then said, Oh, well, this relates to this and that and the next thing. So I was just blown away. It's just brilliant. You know, so we then made these arrangements to have the horses looked at, and I decided that I can't possibly choose one horse because we're all together, you know, in for a penny, in for a pound, and The whole, whole herd of five are going to take part.

And that just really blew me away. So it started from that point. Soon after that, the horses my animal communicator never knows what we've done at any time. I never felt it until afterwards. And he, he'd been recording what the horses were talking about and sharing for about two years prior to this, at least, and recording it on paper.

And they had normally been talking about their own, you know, things that were happening to them in their lives. And but but [00:10:00] after about, I think the second session with Pat they started talking together about the same stuff. They were all talking about how they felt inside, you know about their realignment, about their balancing about what they were releasing, how it was helping them feel how that might be, Affecting their feet or talking about their recovery time, you know, and telling me, you know, don't worry, you know, this looks like this, but really something better is going on.

Don't worry about it. So this process with them because Pat is so supportive and bubbly and just so fantastic. You, it gave me an incredible amount of support that personally, I, I really required. I was in dire need of somebody understood. Me and where I was coming from. And the, the... We haven't done a diagram, but the, the thing also during our meet and greet thing was when I said to Pat, because I go off on tangents, sorry, but when I said to [00:11:00] Pat that my horses crashed when I gave them a rest, you know, soon after they, they came she said, Oh, I know why that is.

And so she got me to draw a straight line on a piece of paper. And then the next line was a very gentle undulating serpentine, probably had three serpentines of that in it. And then the, the third line was really squiggly, very tight. And she said to me that these, in the tight serpentine these little gaps represent, Pat, you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but represent, The muscle groups that have been worked on through the training method program or whatever which helps keep, you know, as humans, we think that keeps the horse in place and keeps it going, which it probably does to a degree as far as it can stand it.

And so I talked to a trainer person that I, I was working with at the time, and he said, Oh, yes, I've, I've found that myself. You know, when the horses have a rest, they, they go [00:12:00] backwards. So I just couldn't believe it because Pat was the first person really. Who heard what I was saying and was able to tell me what was going on.

So if you, let's say the straight line was the absolute symmetrical horse and the very undulating line might have been the, the foal that had been born with you know a birthing attention issue or or something that's happened to a youngster, which is usually very easy to help for the horse to take itself.

Back into a, you know, a better alignment, whereas my horses are all teenage, you see, or they're older or twenties, you know, getting into their twenties. So for us, this was a really different situation and group. So we had to take Wi Fi up to the barn to meet with, back with these horses. And it was hilarious because they'd hear her voice go, who is, who is that gal?

You know, [00:13:00] so by the, by the, the, the subsequent sessions that we had, Oh, hi Pat, how are you? The horses would sort of march up to the, to the iPad, you know, so it, that's how it started. And I had to trust more, but it made me feel more upbeat. I could just let go of. We're wondering what's going to happen.

I could just trust it. Pat, you know, Pat would say, just trust it. I don't know, yeah, this is really good. But it was good. And, of course, the horses became happier as I became happier. And it's been the most It's been an experience not just with the horses, but for me. Because it was like You know, you can spend, I, I appreciate how Pat must feel, but you can spend half your life being quite isolated.

If you're somebody who, who lives this way with energy or sees it, feels it, is working with, with their animals with it because it isn't necessarily, you know, [00:14:00] usual. And you can feel quite isolated because people don't really understand what you're talking about unless they have something tangible.

And really, at the beginning, what Pat's offering, it isn't tangible, really, for most people. So, the other brilliant factor was, I had about two other people anyway, two or three other people, who were able, who were not into this sort of thing, but they sort of know what I'm like, you know. So, they have seen it for themselves.

And the changes, they've noticed the energy changes. One, one of the gals, Sally another Sally has written a little bit down about, you know, how she really felt the energy. She'd start releasing and yawning her head off. And she'd see how the energy changed the horses. You know, how that changed all of us.

In fact, our last session in the Dobro was fantastic, wasn't it, Pat? Quite dynamic. And so all that was happening and, and these [00:15:00] ladies were seeing first hand the changes and subsequently how they were developing themselves. Because the difficult thing to grasp is, well, we're going to do this and we'll do these trainings that Pat likes to call these things that you do.

And then you leave the horse alone, don't do anything, and it'll, it'll keep going and changing, going, oh yes, yes, this is good, and it happens. And, and one of, one of the observations of, of Sally was how the horse's muscles have changed tone, even though they're not in any work. And, of course, in the summer and stuff, we can really see it.

So the herd dynamics have changed. The, the Morgan mare that came to me. And it must be about three or four years ago, was really quite anxious, and had all sorts of foibles going on, and we're going through all the, the gut things and everything that we can do, you know, gut first, let's see what we can do.

And now this mare is just so happy to go [00:16:00] outside, she used to be very frightened of going into a field on her own, but always be rushing back in and saying, you'll need to come and rescue me and sort me out. And now she's out all night, she's out with her gang, you know, she's with two geldings. She's very, very bossy, but it's not, not as anything is bad now and just fantastic.

And he's just relaxing all the muscles, relaxing her neck because her head used to be, you know, absolutely up in the sky. And it's hard but you know, you're in the present and you're going forward with these horses. I forget a lot of the time where they really were when we started. And you putting those photos up, that's pretty scary because You think, holy moly, I was looking through some of my photographic records the other day, and I just keep clicking because I don't really want to look at them, you know.

But they're all feeling a lot better now. So my main objective is how to keep them from gaining too much weight, because that won't help anything, you know. 

[00:17:00] So it's working out alright. We're doing pretty reasonably. Bit by bit. So, so it's been a huge journey, but having this friend of mine do the communication with the horses is utterly incredible.

You know, one of them is like an oracle and they can be also be quite funny. But they're telling me a lot about their, their feet, feet now, which is interesting. And they draw diagrams. They've all got into diagrams and they tell through this. And put that circle there and, you know, this is what's going on and it's just out of this world, but it's in my world. 

Ronnie: That's amazing and I mean I know Pat because of our interaction. But it's hard to put across to people, and especially Pat's not in this country so she's not coming there doing things physically, she's working with the energy. And for some people that is really hard to get the head around. And even for people that work with energy [00:18:00] you know I work with energy but it's still... When it's your horses, your mind will take over and your mind will have its opinion and I'm very aware of that and if people aren't aware of how that works for themselves, it's just their doubts. Whereas you can say, I know what that is. And I know what that is. So you can have a conversation with yourself. For people that don't understand or are not familiar in that sort of field, then it's hard to comprehend.

But the fact that you've had a communicator before, during, and still, is wonderful because you've got the horse's point of view. And as they said, it might look worse before it gets better, Anything you do physically, most people that work with humans too, would say that your body has to adjust.

It has to strengthen in areas where there was a weakness because it was compensating for some other area. So there's [00:19:00] all these different things that come into play. It's not a case of waving your wand, doing that, and it's all fine. That does exist, but not in this reality at this moment, because we can't comprehend that and even if it was happening we wouldn't see it. We have to evolve ourselves to recognize what's really out there or in here, if that makes sense. Anyway, Pat, I know you're dying to talk. 

Pat: Oh, I'm good. You're doing quite well. I could just be the host and switch screens and stuff. 

Ronnie: So Pat when you met Sally, when that went, Horses are aware of what's coming up anyway. There's an excitement. So if you want to talk about that.

Pat: I just said hi, what is it that you have going on? Then a crowd of horses showed up and they were like sitting in the bleachers going, okay, they're [00:20:00] talking. Yeah. Yeah. Okay So then you find out that the person you're speaking with is also intuitive and has shared a lot of similar adventures Across Canada and the United States.

We have shared different Investigations in philosophies of how life is, what life is, and that was absolutely inspiring because it opened up a dimension of interaction that Allowed energy or allowed, if you wanna say creative juices in the universe to go, okay, we're gonna make this work. Okay. And the horses are on the sideline going, yay, team.

You know? And it's awesome when, when you connect with somebody who has the ability to go [00:21:00] into an environment that they don't understand. But understand that nature has the answers if we just ask the right questions and so that's where we ended up this journey now we just chat a lot about all kinds of things.

But the horses, I think the horses really pull people towards. This, it is an extremely difficult conversation to present when you don't know people's backgrounds. And maybe their philosophies about how things work. But to help that, I actually, I have taken snippets of Sally's, some of Sally's sessions.

Especially with Oboe, the last one in particular, where we actually asked the horse to break his contract of staying in a state of trauma. [00:22:00] And that way, I have it on a Zoom, so it's basically real time through parts of it. I had to compress it because it took about 40 minutes. And watching a horse kind of go lick, lick, chew, chew for 40 minutes is boring but there are some very amazing things that happened, I just put it together yesterday, so I'll have it up on the Bounce Horse Project if people are interested. But we'll see what happens anyway, so the abstract concept of energy translates into what makes us physical.

 So I got Sally to take pictures of all five horses and send them to me and then we pulled them together and I take my time to help people see through the camera what the horse is trying to show us. And I [00:23:00] am able to do that with the pictures. And we sat down and I walked her through five horses and their story of being twisted and their struggle to unlock themselves and then I said, it's going to be okay, these horses are going to come back to their highest potential and we started working. 

We set up a Zoom link. And when I'm doing that, it's so that I can make sure the people I'm working with are touching the horse or moving the horse in an accurate way because I'm getting information this is my world. Welcome to it. I end up getting connections with the horses and they are basically directing the actions, the exercises how the body is rocked or turned. So the horse is It's telling me, demonstrating to me that they're self [00:24:00] aware. That's important.

Number two is that they know how they need to be positioned, what kind of passive pressure, like if you were ground driving and you were asking a horse to ground drive in a position of shoulder in or envers. So What position does that horse need to go to so that he can lean in or pull back against passive pressure to correct not just a bone, but to start this activation of Unraveling.

So I'm translating what's coming through Energetically to me and then verbalizing it back through zoom so that the people at the other end can apply what the horse needs. And it sounds very odd, but as I've come through the many years of [00:25:00] trying to understand what it was that I was doing, I've really truly watched my last trip up to Ohio.

I have a horse named Indy and Indy is an Arab and stood up when he was about two years old. He was going in the feed room and he got under a Dutch door and he stood up and he almost broke his spine. So he has this huge u shaped back. It's like beyond suede. And he Has been trying to get me to do certain things and over the year, years I haven't, I haven't trusted myself to step into what he was saying because when I looked at the horse, it visually contradicts what?

Normal , you wouldn't do that [00:26:00] normally. Right? You know, . So here I am following through on what this horse wants us to do. And we have a series of exercises that are like ground driving, they're passive pressure. And so we set this horse up in a certain position, and with certain angles of pressure on his body.

And all of a sudden, now remember this is the thing that I didn't want to do because I thought I would cause harm. I don't want to do that. But all of a sudden, you take pressure on the lines. And the horse starts rocking back and forth, like we weren't doing this. The horse doing it all himself, rocking back and forth.

Then he starts rocking side to side. The owner is looking at me like, what is going on? Then he starts [00:27:00] going and rolling his shoulders, his front quarters in circles. The last move he did was he was doing figure eights. And as he's doing this, you can hear all of the wither bones cracking. His rib cage is sounding like cereal with milk being poured on it.

And all of a sudden, his neck angles change, his shoulder angles change, and his back starts to lift. That's how magical this is. We left Indy he's been, he's been up there enjoying the summer and you would think that, you know, normally you would have to go back and do therapy and maybe if it was like chiropractics, you would fix the back or [00:28:00] you do body work with the muscles.

Actually, what I've encountered and have been directed by hundreds of horses is that. Just leave it alone because once the horse triggers whatever they're triggering in their body I'm going to say it's the memory of trauma or it's the Activation of all the acupuncture meridians at once so you get this big Of energy from nature running through your horse.

It just keeps running We don't have to do anything because once it hits a certain frequency or certain

It turns on the genetic codes in the, in the cell structure of the body and those codes automatically, once they get in harmony or they're vibrating with the energy field [00:29:00] that is in the environment, not manmade energy. Okay. Natural energy coming from the sun or the earth or the center of the universe.

Okay. Once those frequencies are coherent with the vibration of the horse, it turns on the genetic codes and those genetic codes are pre programmed like a reset button and it just starts to automatically. redevelop the physicality and the energetic system of the horse. And the thing that gets me is, is that the horses know this.

So you do these exercises, and sometimes we have to do on horses like Sally's because they were a little compromised. But you know, you do these exercises with the horse maybe three or four times, [00:30:00] and then we walk away. And the horses redevelop as close to body symmetry as possible.

And that's what I find magical. And it opens up their personalities. So that trauma, that fear, that questioning, I love it. The human management system shuts down. It's gone. And the horse comes up to you in a state of peace. And when they actually get activated, once this genetic process gets activated, you can be, I'm sure Sally can tell you how it feels, you can be with the horse while it's happening and you can feel the energy influence you.[00:31:00] 

So it's not just the horse influencing himself, he's, he's stepping into a holistic system and you're a part of it. And I do have clients. It's that cry. Phone me up several weeks later and go, my husband says I'm not, I'm not as grumpy. I'm easier to work with. You know but people feel the emotion. And I think the thing that I enjoy about doing this work is the state Of peace. 

Sally: What Pat's talking about is really real. It's absolutely personified in my herd as they are now. But obviously having five horses, we've had lots of opportunities, to do these zoom sessions, these trainings. [00:32:00] And that's what everybody feels is, is the peace and it's also that when Pat's talking to some of the individuals, what I want to say, it might sound a bit crazy to people, but for me personally, I carry, I carry what these horses are feeling I know I do and sometimes it makes it a bit harder. We have, we have a mare here called Marble, who when she came, uttered the most inappropriate swear word to me and she was so angry, and I'd utter it back, and she'd utter it back to me, and I'd utter it back, and I'd go, come on, get a tidbit, just walk up to her, give it to her, and walk away from her. Hey, you know, what is that? But she, she was so angry, and she got really ill sometime after she came here. We had to test her for absolutely everything. You know, the EMS, all these things, nothing. And I think her system went into shock from the, the change in her anger and all the things that happened. She now walks around smiling. He comes in, gives you kisses. I mean, the contrast is unbelievable. He looks like a million bucks you could. Go into her [00:33:00] show and she's, well, she's in her twenties, she's probably a little, you know, got all sorts of arthritic things on her head, and she loves working away with Sally, and she's a favorite of my friend Yvonne, who helps me a couple of days a week, and, and has been a part of this, a great big part yvonne's great because she's small, so she can do these really interesting things between horses legs, and, and great fun. 

 Yes I have a tall helper and a short helper. It's been absolutely brilliant, hasn't it? So it's been good, but one of the most moving, I didn't know, Pat, if you wanted to enlarge about Osrey, we have an Andalusian gelding here who's probably now near 20, who had a really traumatic death passed in Spain twice. Got sent back to Spain and then I found him in a dealer's yard. And within a week of him being here, he was so frightened that the other horses wanted nothing to do with them and one of them let out a piercing scream and scared him so much, he went through a sheep netting [00:34:00] fence into a ditch upside down with his hind legs stuck, tourniquet in the sheep netting, and his front legs in between post and rail. And that was the start of two and a half years of an accident every day. 

So you can imagine what mess I was in. And I couldn't of just leave. If he went away something would happen. And we agreed it's like passive suicide, wasn't it, Pat? So every, person that came to help practitioner of anything they were absolutely blown away by him You know his name Ray in Spanish means King apparently and that's how they felt I mean, they're incredibly humbled by this extraordinary chap, you know.

So Well now he doesn't do those kind of things in fact the tables are turning, he's looking after everybody else He's very kind. I think he felt that his purpose in life. He had to look after humans He had to take whatever crap was happening In the photos you'll see all the scars over his back end of the crappers. He's got [00:35:00] all the spiky noseband scars on his face, it would have happened the second time when he was sent back to Spain. His hind legs were at an angle when I found him. He had a tooth growing right up into his upper jaw. It took me over a year to put your fingers in his mouth to get any response at all, nothing, you know, so yeah, he had all sorts of things, but we had this extraordinary session with Pat where it became very deep where he was just saying, I'm, I'm not doing this, you know, he was the only horse out of the five that said very gently, I could leave, and then he would stay, but he He just didn't think enough about himself, really.

So Pat started talking to him about it's his choice if he wants to release these things and about how he could view his life and the beauty of it and everything. And I was listening to this and I was watching the other two ladies and thinking[00:36:00] this is quite deep, she could be talking to me and I think it, it touched all of us cause everybody has a part of everything, you know, inside. And it was really, really moving, quite profound. I mean I think I was probably almost crying. 

Pat: I should go back and find that. It's a beautiful... 

Sally: We were blown away by it and he, he changed, he changed after that, he just, he just kept going. You know, it's those things you can't explain to somebody. So I've seen six horses now because I have a friend who has a horse not far from here that Pat worked with and I saw that horse, I haven't seen her since I did the photographs and that was incredible because that horse's owner has been away having to work somewhere else. And I haven't seen her, it must be for months. And she looks fantastic. She's feeling great because this horse I went to photographs with Sally... We'd already put in motion with, you know talking to Pat [00:37:00] and Verona's talking about how brilliant the horse is and how she used to ride.

I met somebody in a supermarket who said, Oh gosh, this horse has changed completely and so I was really keen to see her, so I saw her a few days ago, I think it was, and her feet have really changed as well, which was amazing. Fantastic, because they were having, you know, quite a lot of trouble. But the fluid under this mare's skin, she just is glowing. She's looking fantastic. So I wanted you to know that, Pat, because I don't know.

Yeah, 

Pat: Yeah that thing was 

Sally: First time, different situation Oh, the horse looks great. The change in her feet is really, really good too, so. 

Ronnie: What's brilliant is that for Pat she has you, she has other people recognizing the difference in the horses, and as you said, there's a change in the people that are around them, which goes hand in [00:38:00] hand, because If you has gone through life doing what's expected of, but nobody's actually seen you, acknowledged you, or acknowledged something about you, you just go through the motions. As with humans, there's different degrees, some people get on with it and other people's have a reaction because they can't deal with it anymore. It's no different for animals. And if one person or one animal changes, it's a knock on effect to everything around. So that's really lovely, and I'm so pleased for that because it is hard to talk about your work when, there are so many dedicated people, so this is not saying that this is right and that's wrong.

There's a place for everybody, but if we just see what we think we know, we're missing a [00:39:00] big part of the picture, and the best people to know what they need are the animals that you're dealing with and the fact that you've had confirmation, to me, is amazing. And they do get worse before they get better, but again that's a usual thing, in humans too. 

Pat: Your car has to break down before you fix it.

Ronnie: Yes, mine certainly does. 

Pat: Then the mechanic has to take it apart to find out where it's broken. And then magically it gets put back together and it works, it's the same throughout nature, you know. gets to a point where it has to scream and yell, Okay, we've had enough, can we do something about the problem? And what I'm kind of looking at is maybe the translation of the problem is kind of... not as accurate as it could be from the human perspective. 

 This is why I have [00:40:00] people take pictures of their horses and we go through them, like with Sally, we took before pictures and then for each session we took another series of pictures. I'm sure people are so tired of taking pictures of horses, but when I put them side by side, the first picture you go, Oh yeah, It's kind of lumpy and bumpy and it, you know, it's easy just to kind of put it over in the corner. Think, oh, well, maybe that's, that's okay. Like other horses are like that too but then after you do a training session and you come back and you could take a picture anytime you want, you could take a picture 30 minutes after or a week after or a month after and then bring it back and do another side by side comparison and you sit back and you go, Oh, because now your horse that you thought was okay and normal when you started is [00:41:00] showing you that there was an improvement that in real time, while you're in the barn, you can't see and that's because up here, human intention shapes what the eye is going to present the brain. And so if we don't know that the horse is trying to show us something, then we can't process or translate that information from the horse's perspective. 

We're translating it from being educated, having the facts, got a book, you know, or I see things and I think, I know there's a problem. Big question. What do I do about it? 

Ronnie: So Pat has kindly sent me some photographs and it's always difficult sometimes when you have photographs on, but Pat her eye is trained so she knows what she's looking at, so she can [00:42:00] explain. But people will see what they want to see in photographs. So what I'll do is I'll bring the photographs on and then you can explain, but tell me when you want to go on to the next picture. Okay. Okay, so, there you go. Okay, okay.

Pat: Everybody, I have to put my eyes on. I'm suffering from allergies at the moment, so my, my vision, okay. So I guess it would be the left hand side where it says February 16th that's where we basically had stopped before Christmas. And if you take a look at his shoulder and the elbow, the foreleg, You can see that there's on the shoulder, there's the shoulder groove, the point of the shoulder.

Then there's a groove that shouldn't be there. Then there's a bulge coming across the shoulder muscle. And you can see that. If you go past the girth line, [00:43:00] up on the top line, near the base of his withers, there's a hollow. Come, follow that hollow on a diagonal to the stifle. You'll see there's a bulge, a hollow, then you get into the floating ribs.

There's a tight crease coming from the flank. on a diagonal to the right elbow. Can you see the hair crease there? So these are all patterns of trauma and he has worked through quite a bit of them, quite a few. The top line let's see behind the saddle going towards the flank, you'll see a dark, dark bulgy ridge.

Well, his pelvis was still stuck because there was some kind of imbalance in his structure. And we don't do anything with the spine to release it. This is not like chiropractics. This is [00:44:00] basically asking the horse to unwind his body by his own weight or movement. And we just give tension against the horse's body.

So the horse before in February had not resolved that. I think if you go to the one in March and you look at the shoulder muscles, it's a completely different. construction. The rotation of the right front leg has straightened. You can see that in the muscle development of the forearms. His pole has, is more relaxed.

I know he's, it's a different angle, so it's kind of a skewed piece of data, but it will help us go back across the muscles from the shoulder groove, point of shoulder. across the muscling of the shoulder to the girth line. Then if we go back up to [00:45:00] the bulge at the base of the withers, the angles of the withers is completely different.

The horse's undercarriage has actually come forward. And when that happens, it lifts the withers and frees the shoulders up, which is why we ended up with a change in the, in the muscle. So the muscles did develop again in a period of a month. So you're looking at about four weeks just being outside and doing light work in in the arena, going over little obstacles or things Sally does to keep, keep from being bored.

You can see coming across the bat, the back. The lumbar section or the lower back section has freed up. The hairline that runs from the flank to the elbow has started to soften. The bulge in front of the flank has started, or [00:46:00] on the top line in front of the flank has started to soften. And his leg placement is better because his hocks, if I draw a line straight down, From, from the point of the hip, straight down, his hawk touches that line.

It tells me that when this horse stands square, he's going to be like a table. It also suggests to me that that saddle area, instead of being kind of slab sided, has actually become flat. He's become wider across the top. He's, he's lifted his ribcage up because he can breathe in his, his undercarriage has shifted.

So, that's just simple things. 

Ronnie: Next photograph. 

Pat: So this is his back transition. This is in, the first one, [00:47:00] November. is where we started. And I can understand why this horse wanted to try and commit passive suicide. You can see the variations of the rib placement at the, at the flank in front of the pelvis.

I mean, it must've hurt just to walk across the field and see the distortions coming behind the shoulder blade on the right side. And you can see how The back is kind of hollow or weak looking. And then as we move forward, oh, and you can see scar tissue, all that gray stuff along the, the dorsal line come at the top of the pelvis is I think some kind of scarring that he's experienced.

Or he's, he's been rubbing the, is it scar? Okay. So the [00:48:00] middle picture is showing his back after coming through Christmas with no support. He's just been out being a guy and prancing and showing off quite a bit because he's feeling quite good. He's a, he's a guy. And you can see the contours of the back have started to change the first picture.

You can see there's a, at the base of the withers, there's a line, you'd have to look at it. There's a, there's a hollow or dip at the base of the withers. That's where the back actually had a curvature. It's, it was displacing the ribs. And it could be an injury I get that. I'm supposed to say it was an injury not a birth trauma that actually was compressing against his discs in his back.

So he was starting to get herniation in his back. So no wonder the [00:49:00] poor horse was screaming all the time. So middle picture is transitional. And then we get to March and now he's starting to bulk out. His shoulders have smoothed out, he's more even, he can hold his head in a better position because if you look at the difference in the muscle on the neck, look halfway down his neck in the before picture, and then go over and look at the afters, and you can start to see that when this undercarriage starts to shift and come into balance.

The center of gravity becomes symmetrical and the horse starts to use the muscles equally on both sides of his body just by walking across the pasture. So now you're starting to see the structure under the, under the hair. You can see where his ribs are still in motion. But he's made muscle [00:50:00] and those muscles are supporting his structure.

And he's freed up his neck and he's making neck muscles, which is really important. Because everything that I get told by horses is fix my neck. Please fix my neck. So I don't get that from Osprey anymore. So we can go on to the next one, okay.

Sally: He looks funny there. 

Pat: Sally, takes really good care of these horses. But Oboe came in as a crash test dummy. You can see in the February pictures, like we worked on him in November, and this is a result from over Christmas. And even there he looks weak in the neck and, and disjointed. And I have to say that I have the second picture is not, the legs are, are little skinny because I was trying to get rid of his tail and I kind of took too much off the, the back leg there.

But he's, [00:51:00] you can see the two different lines. for the neck, the top line of the, just look at the top line. You got it. Can't miss it. The first one is the effect of basically being pulled down into an unnatural position. It messed up the angles of his withers, his. his back. I don't know how anybody sat on him.

Poor saddle must have slammed into his withers every step he took. He was crammed up. You can see, it's hard to see in this picture, but you, if you look at the girth line, compare the muscle at the girth line, the spots are actually in different places. His back is lifted in the second picture. He's, he's better in his balance.

And we worked with this horse two days ago, three days ago, and I'll guarantee you that he's [00:52:00] improved a hundred times past where these pictures put him. So this is, this is crash test tummy material. This is what I see in horses that are at horse rescues and horse auctions, and they're just looking for somebody to please come and help.

So now, You'll see the difference in the profiles between the left and the right side of the horse. We usually take pictures of the horse from the left side because they look great. You can't see really that there's anything wrong on the left side of the horse. Looks pretty good, right? So we got February, he looks like a tubby.

But you can see, you can see, that coming up from the girth line, there's big, a big groove, and then coming forward over the shoulder muscles, [00:53:00] it's rugged and bumpy and irregular, and that irregularity is going into his neck, and his neck is big and heavy and crusted. So I want to make it into trouble but my experience with the horses is these big, heavy, crusted horses.

Who are, we're thinking are going to founder. They're actually using the top middle area of their neck to balance because they can't use the muscles coming up the pectoral and the brachial cephalic muscles Okay, they can't hold themselves up in the chest because they're tipped downhill and If you understand the difference between the left profile and the right profiles, that the barrel swings off to one [00:54:00] side.

But you won't see this unless you take pictures. Okay, well, maybe some people will see it. So, that's what's going on in the front end of this horse. He's been pushed down, or ridden long and low, and he was already long and low, and it just made it worse. So, they had ridden him level. and then asked him to sit a little bit, he would have had a better training result than being mechanically manipulated.

Next thing you'll see, so you see the difference in the two necks, you'll also see that at the if you go to the, the barrel, the underside of the barrel, Before there's a bulge and it's not there after. So again, this is four weeks of doing nothing. This is March, February to March. You see a difference in [00:55:00] the angles of the back, the withers, the hindquarters, he's more compact.

Now the scale on this picture may be out, but he's more compact. He's not looking like a stuffed couch. And if you saw Oboe today Yeah, he looks like a different horse. If you look at the girth line again on the March pitcher, you can actually see a groove from the elbow going up to the shoulder, the scapula, where all those ripply muscles are.

And then if you move back from the girth line halfway up his back, body, you see another diagonal line. That's a rib that's out. That's gone. And that is a trauma that I find a lot of horses that have training problems will have this, this type of pattern in them. And it's the barrel has [00:56:00] swung to the left during the birthing process, slammed forward.

The breastbone has shifted slightly backwards and the horse can't unlock it. That would be The February picture. Now we've got the front quarters. If you look at the slope of the chest, so if you go on the underside of the neck, down to the chest area, on the February picture, it's just all smooth and rounded.

It just almost looks like one continuous line. into the forearm. If you look at the march picture, it starts to make a 90 degree angle. That's telling you that this horse is coming in to his authentic symmetrical balance. And when that happens, all his leg joints will come into symmetry. The weight [00:57:00] of the upper body will become closer to symmetrical.

His shoeing or foot growth patterns will start to resolve. His personality will get softer, so I'm, I'm hoping to get more pictures of Oboe after, after what we did this week, so we can go to another picture. Oh, this is nice. 

Can I, can I, can I add something about Oboe, which I'm excited about? Since he, he came here, he had, you know, he had really major gut related problems and his past owner would say he rolls all the time.

Well, that, that stopped after two days of being here and he, I think he'd been in a small paddock with very little hay or anything, you know, for about five years doing nothing. And so We had, you know, we've gone through a lot of things to try and help his gut, but right now he's not worrying about the food.

I mean, this is why he also probably looks so porky around the, you know, November. He couldn't stop eating and of course the other guys have to go with him. So you're going to see [00:58:00] they all look pretty porky as well. You know, it's quite hard to do. They get to roam over all these fields and things. So that's exciting in itself is his idea about food and stuff.

You know, he's. He's really chilled. Cuz right now I'm sort of saying right, you've gotta clean up and you know, I'm not overdoing it cause I'm prone to overdoing it anyway. So we're all practic. Yeah, 

we're all practic. 

Ronnie: Just correct me if I'm wrong, pat, but you said a while ago, horses grays, that's what they do. Mm-hmm. But they will eat because it releases natural endorphins for pain relief, is that correct, Pat? So overeating can be a sign of an anxiety, you know, they can eat, but you know they're anxious. It's different kinds of eating. 

Sally: That's right and he was an anxious horse. He's not anxious now, he's a real cool dude. You know, he's fantastic, really funny guy. Go 

Pat: So like nature or self aware horses know how to self medicate. [00:59:00] And so when you have, have the pony with the thick neck and you're afraid it's going to founder well maybe that is a possibility, but it's also telling me as a horse trainer that that's a downhill horse who can't use his undercarriage.

Which is like the frame of a car, you know, like if the frame of the car is warped, the car isn't going to work very well. So what we find is the undercarriage of these horses is warped and they have to depend on their top line muscles to hold themselves up from falling down. And you can see this is Missy and she's showing us that if you look at the February photo, how heavy she is in the shoulders, the neck, you can see how her hip is swung out open and her [01:00:00] barrel looks flatter in the February picture.

And then when you come to the March picture, the shoulder has opened up, the weight transition has come. So that the horse is not falling downhill. She's actually naturally holding herself up. As from a riding perspective, when I get these horses sorted out okay, I'm, I'm just come from eventing and dressage background and three gated saddle horses, hackney pony background.

So we're always looking for these horses to have a certain self carriage. And we try to use mechanical training to create that because we don't understand where the horse is stuck. We don't know why the horse is stuck, but we know we have to make the judge happy or we have to present the horse in a certain way.

So when we unwind [01:01:00] the horse or the horse unwinds himself, I guess I need to say it that way. What happens is they become like a table. Literally, you get a leg under each corner, and the back gets wider and softer, the neck loosens up, and then all of a sudden when you start to return to riding, there are feather, feather light on the rein, and they, their primary posture is that of self carriage.

So, I do have a video of a Spanish riding master on a Frisian. who had been very anxious and unable to move up to the canter. They tape recorded him riding before I worked with this horse and then he got on afterwards and I literally watched a man go from, I have to hold the horse in the frame to the horse starting [01:02:00] to free up the shoulders.

I mean, this was like maybe 30 minutes after I worked on the horse, which is something that I'm not used to. But anyway, the horse went out, started riding, and stride length got bigger, the undulation of the back started to engage, the riding master had to reposition himself three times. To follow how the balance, how the twist in the back was leveling while he was riding.

Now, this was a horse that was four years old, couldn't even go up to the trot. Okay? She was short doing lateral work. And the next thing you know, he's down on the long side, tapping her up into passage. He gets to the end of the arena, half halts her. Starts dancing with her, and she [01:03:00] goes right up into Piaf, and he kept her in Piaf for about 40 seconds, dropped the reins, walked her out, and he came back, and he says, I could have this horse ready to do after the Grand Prix Pre St.

George levels in three months. And I have proven that to be possible with our own horses. I apply this to our broodmares. They produce very straight and correct horses. And we had one horse go down to Wellington with 42 rides on her. As a three year old just doing training level. And we had Walter Zettel come up.

And asked if we could use, he could use our mayor in one of his videos on introduction of Piaf and Passage to young horses. We declined it [01:04:00] because I didn't feel that it was fair to that horse to go there. But, he also complimented us on the fact that it was the only correct horse at the horse show. And I went, excuse me?

Oh, tell me more, you know? And he said it's because when you slowed the horse down to the walk, like you had to do a a lengthening of the walk and then a shortening of the walk. And then he said instead of your horse falling forward, okay, and, and shortening the front end, she sat down into the hindquarters, lifted her back and shortened the length.

of the stride by lifting her back. He said that was correct and he said even the ground free horses are not doing that naturally. So this is how balanced a horse knows it can be. They come symmetrical genetically. I think birth trauma [01:05:00] messes them up. We contribute to that but they just want to be straight so they can go in a self carriage and then like.

In 12 days you can have a horse walk, trot, canter over fences and doing basic dressage and they aren't afraid and they're with you and they love their jobs and I just think it's amazing and it makes horse training so much easier, safer too. Okay, so, so much for my babble, but you can see the difference at the girth line.

Between these two, two pictures, you can see the difference in the shoulder angles. You can see that the horse is falling downhill in the first picture, even though she was originally a Morgan Park horse. Which means that she would have a high head carriage, but she couldn't do it because she's a downhill [01:06:00] horse.

So now she's closer to love, and what's she like now, Sally? Fantastic. 

Sally: Still working on her, you know she's fantastic. She's flying in and out of the field. She's got no anxiety. So I know that she's feeling more and more comfortable, because really at the end of the day, that's what we're seeing with these horses, you know, is how comfortable they are or not.

You know, it's not just an isolated thing. It's her well being is... Fantastic. I mean, that, that's also out of all this, that strikes me. I was thinking today about horses and what people would term as mental illness. You know, they get, they get labeled with all sorts of things and people say they're shut down or whatever, but it, it turns into sort of like a mental ailment for them.

You know, that that if they were humans, they, they would have more attention for that. They'd have more care about that, but they just get like [01:07:00] learned helplessness or you know, they're, they're, all these things are, are, have a little branded name, but it doesn't talk about all the little particles that are, are there that they have to go through.

And of course it's, it's like us, I suppose, you know, something goes wrong and suddenly we have some shooting pain down a, down a leg. It's all, it's all connected. And so for, for my group, so, you know, as they are just now is, it's this. For me, which is the biggest treasure, is their sense of wellbeing.

And so, and they're still changing, but the wellbeing a factor is so key for horses. And again, that's something that's missed. You know, you can have a horse look athletic athletically absolutely fabulous, and it'll do all this job, but it might not have that sense of wellbeing. Do, do you remember Caroline Bradley and Tigray?

Ronnie, I think you're probably too young. Caroline [01:08:00] Bradley. And she rode a horse called, a grey horse called Tigre. 

She died I think of a brain brain tumor or something, you know, she had something. And to see that pair together, he would go you know, jumping, and he looked like a, sort of like a dressage horse show jumper.

And he would just go ambling up to, it looked like he was ambling up to the He would clear everything, his time was fantastic, and he looked one of the happiest horses I'd ever seen, and he was as round as a cherry. His muscles were absolutely beautiful. You know, that was probably the most fantastic combination I ever saw, if you're looking at well being in my life.

And then that horse ended up getting sold and completely transformed physically. He looked like a streamlined eventor type of something, and then we never heard of him again. But with Caroline Bradley they were just a [01:09:00] feel feel good combination then. So, you know, but the sense of well being is really important.

So if, if something goes wrong with our horses, we're looking at all the mechanical things, aren't we? Or the things we need to change. But that well being thing is elusive, and, and... You have to, I suppose, feel it yourself, you know, feel that. That's what's not there yourself to to help them find it, but I feel that's what's happened to my guys No matter what they're still dealing with is irrelevant, but they they are they're having a ball 

Pat: So we go back to Missy for a second. I think that picture really illustrates if you look at the The neck in February and, and this, the one in March, you can see the difference in the neck. And then if you go down to the front of the chest with the shoulder placement [01:10:00] in the chest, you can see in the February shot that it's kind of looks like a boat, a bow of a boat.

Weird. Okay, and then behind the first line, the belly drops. And then if you come into March, it's squared at the chest and the shoulders, the shoulders have come into alignment with the true vertical balance of this horse. I know I can talk confirmation and get technical, so just kind of push me on if you need.

But I wanted you to see the difference in the rump. Oh, back a sec.

The difference in the rump angles and the difference in the shoulder angles and these, these are horses that are fixing themselves. This is not chiropractics or body work or doing [01:11:00] anything fantastic. Sally listens to my translations, does, does these different pressure type exercises, throws them out. And this is what you get. You get a better horse. Okay. 

Sally: Must have been the fatty fairy or something. I wonder what happened.

Pat: Okay. So, what have we got here? Oh, this is her chest. She was twisting, and you can actually see in the February picture where the barrel is slung off to the left and in doing so, she has to fall into the left leg, the left foot, and that was messing up how the hoof hooves were growing.

Okay. So does this naturally starts to change the growth pattern of the horse's feet? The second picture doesn't look all that all inspiring because their muscles are changing the trauma that was in this [01:12:00] horse's front quarters behind or underneath the left shoulder was profound. So you'll see there's still missing muscle.

It looks tight and grumpy. The front quarters is still trying to come straight, but look at the difference in the stance of the two front legs. She opened up the base, so now she's starting to find that instead of trying to wobble between two sore front legs, because maybe the elbows... If you look at the, go up and look at the points of the shoulders, they're, the ones in the February are, are on an incorrect angle.

The ones in March are not, are asymmetrical, but the chest opened up and the breastbone has come forward. And that's why you see the difference in the, the [01:13:00] difference in the wrinkles of the chest. It's a telltale sign. You can also go up to where the neck comes into the chest, and you can see in the March picture that there's actually scar tissue or missing muscle.

At the base of this horse's neck and that I think has healed up now. But I just wanted people to understand that we can look at our horses and miss all this stuff.

Yeah. 

Ronnie: Wouldn't it be wonderful? If people could work together more, so, people like yourself. People that work physically with horses, where there is no. 

Pat: You take ego out of it. 

Ronnie: Yes, yeah if you're working with an animal... Okay. And you're doing that from, most people do that from the heart, they want to make a difference. [01:14:00] Now if you're working on a horse, you want to know feedback that you're making a difference because that's why you're there.

Now if you've got two different people working on a horse, that they could step out themselves and say, right this is what I'm getting and so as you say to Sally, this is what you need to do. If you've got somebody that's not that confident in doing the physical stuff that they can say, okay I know somebody, good body worker, they're really open let's work together so that you can work as a team and each one has a purpose and validation for what you do, without it feeling like you're going to bruise somebody's ego because there shouldn't be a place for this, there should not be a place for this in this world at the end of the day, we all want to feel better, and [01:15:00] horses know what they need. Now, we do, our bodies know what we need, but we don't always allow that voice to come forward and it's really interesting when you were talking about the genetic codes and how they change, and once that's done, that is it, you don't need to interfere. The body knows the time frame, it knows everything that it needs. And yes, things happen, it might need adjusting, there might be things that it needs extra input with, either energetically or otherwise.

 I listen to lots of podcasts and I was listening to Unleavened Eye and somebody asked a question about when their energy changes, when they change frequency in their body.

What happens is, You can go through the trauma because it's coming out and you can get shudders and you can get shakes and you can feel You can feel pretty shit at times or it can be a lot smoother than that. What's happening is Everything is vibrating until it's got to a point where it's [01:16:00] smoother and that's how it naturally works and So when you said that, that was like, yeah, and I heard that this morning.

If people were more aware of these things, it wouldn't be this magical, you know not understood. Because you can make it as simple or as complicated as you want. You can dress it up and make it that which some people do, you know you've got to have the right tools, you've got to have this, that and either.

No, you don't, but you need to have an understanding and that's where people like yourself perhaps and people, thankfully for Sally, for trusting her gut to go with that, and seeing the results. This is why I'm getting excited about this. Now, I do what I do, but there's still the human element that's still... When it's to do with your own, there's clouds there, there's what is it, you know, I'm human at the end of the day, [01:17:00] do you know what I'm saying here? I'm not saying I understand all this, I'm getting it right. I bloody don't. Okay, I don't. Because you've got your emotion, you've got what is, you've got all this chat, chat, chat, chat, chat going on.

If you can step aside from that, it's easier when I go to see a client, because I'm not in that emotional state, you can see it with different eyes. And if there was more people that would be happy to work without feeling threatened, because there is no need, there is enough work on this planet for everybody, if we think somebody else is going to take what's ours, then that's the problem with that person, not the person doing the work.

Pat: Okay, I can go three quarters of the way down that conversation, and then I have this, wait a minute. And here's the wait a minute. [01:18:00] That it's. It's not a therapy,

and because it's not a therapy, it doesn't fall in the description of therapy. It goes across back to the people that ride the horse, because if you go back as a rider and a trainer, that's the original foundation for all your therapies. And it's the original foundation for your veterinary sciences. So, what I would like is Instead of taking and bit piecing the conversations from, I'm, I'm a body worker and I'm a farrier and I don't know, pick one, okay?

Because they're all honest to goodness [01:19:00] important pieces. But what has historically happened is that we stopped to ask, stopped asking the question. Of what did our ancestors do to support the horse before there was ever science. That's how deep this goes in the genetic history. And this is why I'm very, very, very supportive.

of coming back to educating people about not just the physicality of the horse, but the ancient concepts of the energy, the spirit, the soul, the vibration of the planet that runs through the horse, and that the horse is projecting into For our reality. So now we're talking about a different school, a different philosophy of horse training that brings us into sustainability because [01:20:00] that's where it comes from.

I have people that want to help and I am with them 100 percent but I would encourage them to. shift the focus a little bit, because if we don't change the way we're training the horse, what good is it if we're just bit piecing things? So I would like to encourage people to look at therapists. This is funny.

At least I find it funny because horses make me laugh when I think about this. It's like they're, they're a horse. There are people that are horse trainers, but they don't realize they're horse trainers because they're trying to help the horse do his job. But we've become so specialized in one, one little piece, one little piece of All the frequencies, like if you look at pulse magnetic therapy, if you look at homeopathy, if you look at [01:21:00] essential oils, okay, look at all these bits and pieces that we're using.

Who's putting them together? That's where the connecting of the dots has broken down, because... This person has this fact over here and because they're looking at the horse from a different perspective They're missing the other fact or not being able to translate the other fact That somebody else is seeing so when I came out of my education as a horse person Or almost a horse master because I was a girl They wouldn't let me be a horse master at the time.

But anyway I had to know everything about the horse, not just about how to ride how to ride to a fence. I had to know how to hitch a horse and drive it. I had to know everything about his feet. I had to know how, how to feed them. I had to know how to make hay, where the grain came from,[01:22:00] 

and all that's been chopped up and put into sections and isolated sections. So when I speak with horses, They are excited because a horse can see your soul and I'm not trying to say that I'm like superwoman or special or in resistance to anything, but the horses need us to slow down the empirical standard of human thinking and put it all together.

Put it back together, it's a big puzzle, put it back together, and come back to the original human horse interaction. You don't have to ride a horse to train a horse,

but you have to know a horse to love a horse.

And so, doing the type of [01:23:00] work I do, when we activate the horse's birth memory, cellular genetics, We just turn them on and stand back because we no longer are in control if we do artificial type of interventions, if we go in and do a lot of body work, if we have somebody come out with a device, doesn't matter if it's sound, magnetic, I don't care, it'll stop the genetic interruption because we treat one, one level of body's harmonics and That's like shooing a horse and putting one shoe on backwards.

We've stopped the process. We've taken the harmonics that is naturally present in the horse's body and turned it off. [01:24:00] So this is the role that I keep... You have to, I do go back in a lot of old ancient history stuff here. Okay. But that's what I keep getting shown is that there's a harmonic relationship that's genetically ingrained in the human being.

I keep getting shown this picture. Need to have a page called the pagan horse because I keep getting shown the picture of these people and they basically crowd and gang up on this horse. But the horse is terrified until the man sits on the horse's back for the first time.

Now this may not mean anything to somebody who is, is mainstream or a physical thinker, and that's okay. But in the type of work that I work with, [01:25:00] when a rider sits on top of a horse, you have your vertical column of energy going through, through your core. You have a horizontal core of horse energy. When a rider sits on a horse, it's at the base of the withers.

Underneath the base of the withers is the end of the sternum, or the breastbone. In shamanic traditions, in ancient traditions, the breastbone is called the spirit gate or the soul gate. And if it's on the wrong angle, The energy of the spirit, the soul, will fall out. So the original guy who rode on the horse, his energy went into that horse.

and influence the record, the genetic record of the horse. And the horse's energy did the same in return. It's a [01:26:00] feedback loop. The horse trainer sits on the horse and asks the horse to shift his weight, which alters his structure, which re centers and levels the horse's breastbone sternum. Yep. So we are the key.

It's the whole horse human interaction on the physical and the metaphysical. And it's all recorded in the human DNA sequence and the horse DNA sequence. And that's why you will see people who have never seen a horse before absolutely automatically know that they love horses. Because we are a key. And I personally believe that we're supposed to activate this rebirthing, unwinding, the reforming of the horse to his original, [01:27:00] or close to as possible, his original state of perfection, which is symmetry. And in return, he will give that gift back to us.

Sally: That. 

Ronnie: Yes. 

Pat: I believe that. So this is where you will see my hesitation.

Because... I think there's a lot more going on here than let's just look after the horse. Oh, absolutely. There always is. There always is. So there you go. Wow. So anybody who wants to learn, yes, but I would love it if we could just get away from this fact and this fact and this fact. And open ourselves up, open up.

Even though it might scare you, maybe that's why you're here. Maybe that's why you're asking these questions. And maybe there's some [01:28:00] answers that will change the way that you see reality or your perceptions of what's possible. Or maybe, maybe, You'll believe in a miracle. 

Ronnie: Miracles happen every day. We should always see them.

Oh, Pat, I love speaking to you. Whatever anybody's views when you speak and they listen even if it's not their terminology, you can feel that. I mean without sounding wishy washy I can feel that really strong. 

Pat: Universal.

Ronnie: Yeah the thing is, it's not, it's not woohoo, it's always been there but that is changing, and it's changing a lot, and it's changing in more places than you realize. I spoke to a lovely vet a few weeks ago, and she's definitely in tune with herself. And she works as a vet, but she also has her own practice.

In her own practice, She's very much open to a lot of new [01:29:00] things that are coming to her. 

Pat: Okay. So I have a little community of like five people and we get together and go through each other's experiences. So one of the things that I can offer people who are, If you're interested in exploring this, it doesn't cost you anything, it won't hurt you, you go to YouTube and type in cymatic, it's C Y M A T I C. There's a series of videos in there that show a sound plate and they put sand on it and they go through different frequencies and each frequency that's in resonance with the sand produces a different geometry. And that brings me into my lecture on sound horses. Because that's what really what we're tapping into is the vibration of invisible [01:30:00] geometry through sound. So you can check out Cymatics and you can see the impact of an invisible sound wave on sand.

On water, on some frequencies they have plates of ground metal and they actually mound up and make three dimensional mountains. So, so this is taking us into physics, not biochemistry, not anatomy. I don't have to know anything that's wrong with the horse. The horse's confirmation is the language. And the feeling that I have, okay, is a language that fits my genetic code.

And other people may feel it, or see it, or interact with it differently. But it is real. So go and check it out. That might open some thoughts. 

Thank you, Pat. [01:31:00] So we've had, so Claire, I'm going to put this on. Phyllis did say hello earlier, so I'm going to put that on the screen. So, for the benefit of the audio because this will be a podcast afterwards Phyllis says hello.

And then we had Colleen Phillips says, Hi Pat, from Bandit and Colleen. Yes. Well, I hope these guys are still here. And then Claire Morris absolutely love everything you say, Pat. So, so true, and very similar to the human equivalent with Dr. Joe Dispenza, in one of your previous podcasts you talked about the earth stood still on a crooked leg.

I remember that conversation that resonates deeply with me, but I can't find any reference to it. Can you explain where it comes from? 

Okay. This, okay, people, you'll have to understand that this is a historical oral tradition. I cannot vouch a hundred percent for the stories as a fact. [01:32:00] I've tried to add up the years involved in this story and so far it's adding up to two and a half million years backwards.

That's a long time. I think it's the story that comes from the Neanderthal or the Denisovan people and they were talking about a time When there was no moon, and that the earth stood on a true vertical axis. The story could be found under Äijär, or Eor, Bok.

It's called the Bok Saga. And it is a northern tribal history that comes out of the foundations of Finland. With the languages of Røt, [01:33:00] Lant, and...

So that takes us back to a history that predates anything our traditional people are talking about in our education system. I looked at it and I thought, well, there's got to be something to this because everything about the horsemanship that we have today is about symmetry. We judge the horse on symmetry.

My question, when I came into this oral tradition was how is it that our genetic code can go into homeostasis, which is a natural reaction of trying to regain symmetry. Some people call it healing. Okay. But on a whole body system, that's whole body symmetry is, is. bringing in homeostasis. Where did that genetic [01:34:00] code come from if we live on a planet that's hanging at 30, 32, degrees off center and the only historical system that I can find is from culture that has been genocided or removed from the face of the planet.

Those stories hold value in the language structures across the world. I liked it because it held the liturgy in giving me an answer. Here's, here's my choices, either the earth stood straight on her leg and we spun so fast that we were energy. And when she fell off her leg, when the serpent came in to the, if you want to go into biblical, if a serpent came to the garden of Eden, well, the serpent is in all of your, your Hindi, your [01:35:00] native American, your aboriginal creation stories are all based on when the serpent came to town.

Wow. What do you think I'm unwinding? What am I finding in a horse's body? I'm finding the trauma. of the earth when she was standing on her leg and the genetic codes recorded what it was like to be energetically correct. And then we fell, the harmonics came into a dissidence or they couldn't resonate the way they used to be.

And so the slower sound moves, it goes into light, the slower light moves, it goes into photons, which create Clusters of energy which turn into matter.

So that answered my question. The other option was that we were created in a vacuum. [01:36:00] And I do think there's some validity to that. That the current genetics lines that are making up the different human cultures, races, was infused in a vacuum in space. Because the human genome has been interfered with.

It's been mechanically or deliberately altered at chromosome 2 and chromosome 3. And that's why I think it's hard for some people to reconnect to nature. But I am finding that people that are left handed or ambidextrous are easier to connect in. So look up IOR. It's I O R, Boch, B O C H. [01:37:00] He sets his story, his, he was the last member living the pure line back to the original story of creation.

And his creation story said that the North Pole was actually centered in the Bay of Helsinki. So Helsinki was up north in Santa Claus land, okay, and it was tropical, and there was no pain, and there was no suffering, and there was no disease. And in a matter of, I think it was 30 days or 90 days, I can't remember, don't quote me, 90 days, the earth slipped off its axis.

and millions of people and animals froze to death. So Helsinki, that was the North [01:38:00] Pole.

And that goes into a very long, it's a long story, but you can look it up. Okay. That is why I believe that our genetic link to our horses comes through symmetry. I mean, just look at it instinctively. If you go to fall, do you just fall or do you put your hand out to catch yourself? And why is it your body automatically knows that it shouldn't be falling?

So somewhere in there is a very deep historical pattern. It says our primary operating system functions at its highest state of efficiency when we're symmetrical. And the same thing happens to everything else on this planet. So what I'm talking about is universal. [01:39:00] Horses. Horses know this story, and horses, in my world, the way I translate it, taught me all of this, didn't find it in books.

Ronnie: Thank you, pat. 

Pat: So there you go. 

Ronnie: I think that's answer your question and hi said Hi Pat. Excited to be working with you soon. Hi. 

Pat: On her journey. Oh yes. And niece's having a great time. She sent me pictures today of her horse.

Dee was similar to Marble, and D was similar to Marble, very twisted through the back, hung up in the rib cage, just miserable, and she was, the horse was trying everything, and now she's just She's just love. She's just love. 

Ronnie: Right guys, we've been on the go for about an hour and 50 minutes now.

Pat, you've been on a mega trip, haven't [01:40:00] you, because you've got an RV and you've been travelling. Around America. You've been working with horses on the road, which we had a conversation a while ago and you was about to give up because you says, I can't do this anymore because nobody wants to hear what I've got to say. And it was like, no, you've got to keep going, but you've got to do what's in your heart and then you've got your RV and you've been out on the road and it's like, yay. The universe has set it up so you can get out. 

Pat: We can travel when you're empathic and intuitive, it's very hard to be traveling on the road. You can't get grounded you don't have a quiet place. You're always in chaos. And it was very difficult for me to travel so that was one issue. [01:41:00] And the other one is that coming in and having an RV, it just, It just makes it easier for us to get to people and people can come in and we have videos and stuff that we can go through or show them, take pictures of their horses and do real time comparison.

Because when we do this work, horses change in half an hour, like it's ridiculous. I have one horse, an example in my pile. How was it Rose? Rose came in, Oh gosh, she was a grumpy gray mare. We unraveled her serpent and her body, we did a back tracing and took pictures. And in the matter of 35 minutes, her body lengthened by eight inches and Rose up by half an inch at the withers.

And her back started to [01:42:00] flatten out and come to the curve of the rump. In 35 minutes. Think about that. And then, you have to throw these horses away for a little bit, because if they transform that fast, that means that all their joints have to kind of shift, and the ligaments have to adjust the tension, and all the muscles have to...

the scar tissue in the fascia and the digestive tract that was sloping forward into the heart and the lungs kind of restricting everything is now got to go level. So it's got to flush itself out. The feet change, the dental work changes. So like getting on the horse 24 hours after I do this, This is kind of not fair.

So we just throw them out and, and, you know, Sally was talking at the beginning about the three lines, [01:43:00] the straight line, the weavy line and the, and the chaotic line. Okay. So we throw the horses out so that they can throw off all that imbalanced energy that's making. artificial money or artificial money.

Yeah, there you go. Artificial muscles. Okay. So, so like when you're training horses and riding horses every day, you're, you are just trying to make muscle that isn't naturally there. And that's why when you throw them in the field, they fall apart because it's artificial. So when you bring the horse closer into being symmetrical, they automatically make real muscle.

And you don't have to ride them every day to make them fit, because they're pre programmed to be fit. And you can take them out and introduce them to their career concepts. And they're already muscled [01:44:00] and balanced. So that like, cuts 60 days of training off right there. That's what goes on. 

Ronnie: Thank you, pat.

Right. Okay we're gonna bring it to an end now. So would you like to say one thing before you go Pat, and then I'll ask Sally if she wants to add anything. 

Pat: Be patient with the world because it does know what it's doing. Nature has this solution to every problem, and if you need to have some conversations with somebody that views the world a little differently.

Look me up at the Balanced Horse Project on Facebook. You can message me there, and I will get back to you as soon as I can. 

Ronnie: Thank you, Pat. Sally, would you like to say something before you go? 

Sally: Yeah, I'd like to just say that on my wet farm, where my horses seem to get crippled and whatever, all this [01:45:00] happened over the wettest winter that we've had for ages.

It must have rained about every day here for months in the UK. Our farm was... It's soaking wet and the horses made all this progress despite that. And initially when, you know, I spent time here, I felt also it was the land and the mud and all the sliding around and everything that was causing or helping to cause a lot of imbalances with the imbalances, but they've actually made progress in a situation that, you know, we just wouldn't have known was going to happen.

So I thought that was pretty impressive as well, to help people realize what actually does happen, that they are doing themselves. 

Pat: Thank you. You could go and visit Sally. Yeah, come and see. She has little cottages. What is it called? Skylark Cottages.

Sally: They're on Airbnb.[01:46:00] Yep, so you can have somewhere to stay as well. 

Ronnie: Thank you. Alright guys, I'm gonna pop you out, but if you don't mind hanging around and then I'll just have a quick chat with you afterwards. 

 I can't help but smile when Pat comes on and she might not always talk in a language that everybody's comfortable with but that's the same with a lot of things.

When you actually take the dressing away and go back to the basics and see it in a different way, there's a theme running through all those things that say the same things, but in a slightly different way. Horses, animals their bodies know what they need, and ours do too but we, more often than not, think a tablet's going to fix it, or that's going to fix it, when actually, it's within ourselves to start that process but believing it is the difficulty, because even if you... Start to feel that [01:47:00] sometimes this takes over and it's not your enemy but you have to work with it.

Okay, we can only deal with what we understand at that time and it's forever changing and it's changing quicker as we go along. We're evolving as humans. Everything's evolving, and this is how it's meant to be. And this is a prime time to start asking questions. If you're not sure, or you get a feeling that something's not right, but you're not getting the answer, but you know there's another way, then start asking yourself, show me, what is this? What is it? Because your energy, your all knowing power will guide you to where you need to go. And it might be... A few carats down the road before you get to... The right place, but it's all experience. 

Anyway, have a wonderful evening, and if you've got any questions for Pat, please feel free to contact her on the Balance Horse Project or [01:48:00] contact Sally. I'm sure she'll be happy to share any information that she can. Have a wonderful evening. I hope that you've got something from this. And it's not meant to push anybody out or make anybody feel inferior or what they're doing is wrong.

It's just to get you to question yourself and ask if there's another little thing that you can be adding to help. 

 Speak to you soon. Take care and bye for now.