Changing the Narrative About Minorities and Women in Construction with Demetria Bivens

Female and minority contractors need more representation, compensation, and respect in their industry. There’s no doubt about it! But how do we make that happen? This week’s guest is a prime example of that mission coming to life.

In this episode, I welcome Demetria Bivens, Managing Member at dlb Consultants and Senior Executive Director of Business Development for DFW Airport Texas. Demetria is on a mission to change the narrative around minority contractors and bring more respect and recognition to Black tradeswomen and Black female contractors.

Listen in to learn how Demetria entered the construction industry with ZERO experience and how she has transferred her passion for business development into a successful career in contracting.

“We may be small but we always think like a big company.”                            - Demetria Bivens

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

·       Demetria’s role in the contracting field & How she’s working to improve the contracting profession for minorities.

·       Programs and educational opportunities to take if you want to become a contractor.

·       Demetria’s earliest career aspirations, her diverse work experience, and why she became an entrepreneur.

·       How her family and her experience with grief has impacted and inspired her career path.

·       How do you take care of yourself while balancing your many responsibilities?

·       Being a mentor for female contractors: What does it feel like to see your mentees thrive?

·       Demetria’s Learning and Misstep: Read the specifications, always walk the job site, and take ownership!

Connect with Demetria:

Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/demetria-bivens-699b2449 

 https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnings-and-missteps
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4yLjr8swfqCt_vMp74oiXA
https://www.learningsandmissteps.com/support/

Transcript

0:00

what I getting is, you're not just learning for yourself. Okay. Yeah. You know, I advocate for minority and women on businesses. You know, I, I consider myself a mouthpiece, , if I'm going to be the one in a pre-bid or whatever, or an outreach asking all the questions because they won't ask the questions. Right. I asked what people are thinking. Do you feel like when you start doing that, you're kind of like putting little sparks out there and it gets a fire started and people gain confidence and follow your lead. Yep. You know, one of the outreaches I was at, I was asking a lot of questions and I was really challenging the project team, Oh yeah. That is miss Dimitria. Bivins the executive director of NAMC and Dallas DFW. If you couldn't tell she has this tenacious passion that she brings to everything I got to interview her on a Saturday, met her in real life at, at the golf tournament Monday, then hung out with her Tuesday at a live panel discussion on mental health. And everything that I experienced in the interview that you're going to get a sense of was totally magnified when we were live and in person with her, you know, as we were recording the darn episode, uh, we had some wifi problems. So she, she was in the parking lot and she went into the corridor. She was at UTR island team finishing up a certificate that she's been working. Then in the classroom. And then finally we wrapped up the final question because we had to cut out early, uh, before she started class. And to me, all of that is just a perfect example of how she carries herself out there in the world. Like she ain't backing down, she made a commitment and she was going to see it all the way through the end. And I was just lucky enough for her to impart that gift with me and with you, the LNM family. As you listened to this conversation, she's going to let us know why she is on fire, about changing the narrative. She even displayed some like real discipline in the moment, you'll catch it in the interview where she's like, you know, I was just sick and tired or the, that I was going to have to bleep it all out, but she held her tongue and we brought it back in, she tells a beautiful story where she challenged the room particular general contractor about how many minorities are actually going to be on the job and celebrating completion of the job. And that ended up creating a safe space for people to really open up and connect. And that's what it takes. It's those types of leaders that are out there in the industry that we want to be highlighting and celebrating with you. And it's really no surprise that she has this passion and drive to, to transform the industry and change the narrative and speaks on behalf of minority contractors. She is the eldest of eight siblings. And so she grew up having this nurturing spirit on taking care of those around her and sharing her. Uh, to serve others and now she's doing it for the whole darn construction industry. Um, eager to hear your thoughts about what Demitrio brings to you in this conversation. And as always, we're going to give a shout out to our patrons who are also out there making tremendous impact in the construction industry, walk in a different path, showing their real true selves and treating people like human beings. Patrons love you very much. Anyone interested in becoming a patron, go to learnings and missteps.com hit the, become a member button, hit the other button, you know, And here we go. All right. Y'all so what's going on in family? We're here with miss Demetria Bivens today. If, and, and y'all need to know, she liked extra time out. Out there building our capabilities, learning new stuff, working on another certificate to just continue burning it down out there. How you doing miss? Demetria I'm doing great. Thank you, Jesse. I'm excited. I am. I am. I don't know what I'm getting myself into, so yes, I'm excited. We got to give a shout out to Jennifer Lacy, right? Cause Jennifer is the one that connected. I have like Double the fun. Cause I get to interview you today and then Monday I'm going to be hanging out with you that's going to be fun. NAMC DFW golf tournament. Our second, give me a shot. Annual golf.. We've got a bunch of people showing up. We have about 111 hundred about, yeah, the belt 100 folks will be there, but you're not like just showing up there. You kind of have some responsibility with NAMC oh yeah. Yeah. I'm the executive director actually. I'm the founder. I brought the name at DFW chapter to Dallas Fort worth six years. Yeah. Uh, no, not at all. You know, I went to an event, a national conference or something down in Houston, and I was looking at, you know, just kind of scoping out the room. This was about 13 years ago. I was scoping out the room and I was like, you know, there's a lot of Dallas Fort worth people here. Why don't we have a chapter in Dallas Fort worth? And. You know, it's still that seed that was planted back then. And then six years ago, I was like, Hey, come, go ahead and start a chapter. And so I recruited people like Jennifer and Amanda and Greg Obara like some of, some of the original people are still with us,. And so we just kind of went there, Set up the 5 0 1 C3 got our candidate, you know, legal representation came up with a fee that, you know, all the stuff that they required and we just made it happen. And here we are six years later still going meet the second Tuesday of every month. Oh, that's amazing. So that's something and you're kind of like, yeah, I do that. And I'm getting this certificate and studying and learning, making time for a podcast. Everything I've heard about you, Ms. Demetrius is that you're a powerhouse out there changing world is that, you know, I'm just, I'm trying, um, you know, we want to ch I want to change the narrative. Of minority contractors, you know, that's what I'm doing. I'm right here at prac that UTA university of Texas of Arlington right now finishing up a construction management program that I've been taking, I leave today and I'll be finished. Thank God we don't project planning and scheduling, uh, today. So that's my last course, but yeah, you know, I just want to change the narrative I want, um, I want minority contractors, especially being a black female contractor. I want to be respected in this industry, you know, put the sweat equity in and Hey, after this I'm thinking I'm really quit now been in the industry for awhile. So I'm ready. So my goal is to, you know, just be respected and bring that value, showing the value that you bring to the table other than, than just being a checkmark. You know what I mean, man. So what compels you to, to change that narrative? What got under your skin that made you say, man, I got to do something about this. Well, you know, I do a lot of, I have a consulting side as well, so I do a lot of the MWB compliance, public engagement, community outreach type things. And, you know, and, and I'm fortunate that I can sit at the table and I hear what's being said, you know, I see it, you know, You know, anyway. Uh, yeah, so, you know, and you know, and I was just like, uh, went through, you know, during COVID I went through the, uh, Tim Kay, the Goldman Sachs 10 K small business program. I did leadership north, Texas, and I also completed, uh, the SBA emerging leaders and all of these conversations with about pivoting and. Looking at the financials. And I was like, you know what? I really want to be a contractor now I want to start doing some. I figured I better come back inside the building to send my phone got too hot, so it shut me off. We were talking about when COVID hit you, you took a bunch of classes and got fired up. Yes. Absolutely. I did. The, as I was mentioning, we did, did the Goldman Sachs 10 K small business program program. And as well as two got accepted in leadership, north, Texas, and also completed the SBA emerging leaders program. And right there, you know, that kind of helped me start with. Looking into the financials, you know, your P profit and loss, your balance sheet, you know, kind of getting yourself ready to become bankable. You know what I mean? Instead of just printing stuff out of your quick books and go, here you go. So, you know, it's, it really, uh, has enlightened me on my financials and really what people are looking for. Even with, even with bonding, you know, people, you just got to have your stuff to. And that's what I'm saying again about changing that narrative. I mean, if we come, you know, I would say Third time is a charm. So you, you expanded your awareness around business and getting your stuff in order, but there's still this thing like you really, what I getting is, you're not just learning for yourself. Okay. Yeah. You know, I advocate for minority and women on businesses. You know, I, I consider myself a mouthpiece, , if I'm going to be the one in a pre-bid or whatever, or an outreach asking all the questions because they won't ask the questions. Right. I asked what people are thinking. Yes, Do you feel like when you start doing that, you're kind of like putting little sparks out there and it gets a fire started and people gain confidence and follow your lead. Yep. You know, um, the last outreach I was at, well, one of the outreaches I was at, I was asking a lot of questions and I was really challenging the project team, not the, not the minority partners on the team, but the actual. GC team. Right? I asked them like, Hey, once this project, once you guys get this project going, how many people in this room are going to be able to go about this project and go, Hey, I was a part of that project that me here in my community and, you know, and it, it made them uncomfortable. And what size that was in there, he was like, man, I felt like the holy spirit was in this room. You know, but it does. And then you should have saw the movement. I mean, people started networking, they felt comfortable talking people, you know, it the way it should have been in the first place, you know what I mean? Yes. Ma'am. Yes ma'am. So is that something that just sprouted in you here in recent times, or did that start in your youth? I've always been this way. Yeah. I'm the oldest of eight kids I did the whole cheerleading, FCA, FHA, FTA, all those little clubs. I was always doing something. Right. So, um, but yeah, I've always. I was running around the house if my mom, but you're doing it to help others. Yes. You used that gift. I mean, I think you and I have, I don't think I know, like we probably have that in common because all my life was like, boy, when are you going to shut up? Like, just stop already. But it took a long time for me to get to a point where I was like, Hey, I got this tool that I can use to help other people,. That's the whole thing about, , name ag. I mean, it is definitely a passion of mine. And when we meet, you know, and we meet with people all the time, even, and they didn't, sometimes they don't even know. I mean, I'm learning as they're learning or I'll put myself through something I was talking to there's one of the school districts have a large, uh, bond program. Man, this is so much paperwork, but I put myself through it. And so now I can help other contractors cause they'll call. Hey. And if you remember is going to be bidding this work, but now I can go through, you know, talk to a contract, go, Hey, yeah, it's 398 pages. Yeah. You're going to have to read the entire document because there's all these forums are embedded inside of the document. So you can't skip anything, but I'm like, if I did it, you can do it. Great to people that way, you know, I've kind of do it myself and, and then just how to help whoever want to listen or help. Whoever wants my help. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's a, I've done it. I know what it feels like. Let me help you. Like if that doesn't encourage people, I don't know what else does. So what was it about construction that attracted you to say I'm going to go share all my superpowers, all my greatness, all my SAS in construction. You know, it just kind of happened. You know, I had my first business, I didn't have an exit plan, any Ecuador, nothing. Right. Um, I was running about four states simultaneously for a large, uh, for this large owner doing document imaging. I was converting paper documents to digital, you know, and, and when the market crashed in oh 8 0 9, I didn't know what the heck that was going to be doing. I went and met with this guy. Matter of fact, he's still around. I went to go meet with him because I always looked up to him. You know, I always love meeting strong people and being around strong people. And so, um, and I tell him, I said, man, I don't know what I'm going to do. You know, I, I just don't know what I'm going to do. And so he gave me that book who moved, who moved my keys. So he gave me that one, you know, and then I went and that was a construction company. Went to go meet with him. There was a construction company on the same floor. And I just went in and go, Hey, you know, I was thinking about document control. How can I get into this industry with what I know with, you know, with some, they'll say, well, I didn't do document control, but I was a really good business development person. I was helping people find jobs. And I mean, it just happened immediately. I didn't know anything about construction when I got in. I couldn't tell you a subcontractor from a, I mean, I absolutely knew nothing, but what I am good at, I'm a connector. I'm not afraid to talk and afraid to go after the business. I can do that, you know, and especially with some of our, even some of the largest, and I've done BD for, you know, do you know contractors that moved from other states that just want to come get their feet in and you know, you can save a lot of time when you already have relationships, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, thank you for sharing that Dimitri. Cause that's like one of them cheat codes. That everybody has. Right? So L and M family of God in here that you got some inherent natural traits and skills that you just got to use them. You just got to share them. Right? We've all been blessed with gifts and talents. And when we share those with the world, Amazing things can happen and you've proven that, but at 11 you have to love this industry and it's, you know, that's why I wanted to really, when you reached out, I was like, oh crap. He probably read my LinkedIn. He read my LinkedIn Reebok. Two things. One I've heard from Jan and for manna for like, man, you got to talk to them. We just kind of, I know, I know I got like the years comment and the other part is, I have a beautiful tan also. So minorities in the industry that it's an important space for me. And I was reflecting back on our, on our previous episodes and I realized like, man, I'm doing a miserable job. Celebrating women in the industry. I just, I did the count and like 20, 22% of my interviews were of women. And there's no excuse for that. Like as many people as we know with LinkedIn and everything else that is just sheer laziness on my part. And then I said, okay, okay. Gap. And I say, Ooh, and now I have an excuse. So like get up out of my insecurity because you're a pretty damn powerful person. And for me to say, Hey, you got time to talk. It's a little intimidating. Ah, no, no more excuses, Jesse. You just need to go reach out and start making this happen. So thank you. But fitting us in on your lunch break while you're out there expanding your knowledge. Yeah. I'm back in classroom. I'm here by myself right now, so all good. Okay. So here's another quote. We'll take it back as far back as you're willing to go. What were your earliest career aspirations? Oh, wow. Well, you know, I never could keep a job, you know, that I knew everything right. But I had some really good jobs. I had some really good jobs, but I just knew that there was always something more that I wanted to do. You know, and, and being an entrepreneur, I mean, that's me, that's in my, that's just everything in my being. I mean, the challenges of the bullshit that comes along with it, all of that is, is it's just me the risk, you know, I'm a risk taker. I can't do it because I'm gonna show you. I can. Sure. So how many friends that you've jumped a couple of times? They're like from. Industry to industry rolled a roll. Can, would you mind sharing a list of like the different things you've done? Um, Yeah, I'll go way back. So I was, my mom was a nurse and I was a candy striper at the age of 13. So I thought that I was going to be a nurse I wanted to do. I mean, I was, that's how I paid for all of my cheerleader uniforms and anything that I did, any activities I was involved in, I had to work. So. Andy striper. And then when I got old enough, I was like, Hey, I need to get paid. Like these people, I'm doing the same thing. I'm doing the exact, I mean, I, Hey, I'm passing out water, just like them. I'm helping them feed and all that stuff. So from there, you know, started out, going to school for nurse and got in my clinicals. And that was not for me. It wasn't that wasn't, it wasn't for me, it broke my mom's heart, but it just wasn't for me. Then I dabbled into. Corporate private. I worked at EDS electronic data systems back in the day. Um, by Ross Perot, Sr. Um, I did flight attendant. There's nothing that I have. Oh my goodness. Okay. But, you know, but I was a young mom at the time and I'm like, okay, this is just being a waitress up in the air. I don't want to do this. So, um, so I've kind of dibble dabble in everything, but in 1997, that's when I started my first business though. Yeah. And I did that until the market crashed in oh 8 0 9. And then I've been in the construction industry ever since. Wow. Wow. I'm just learning, you know, meeting great people like Jennifer. And I mean, I got tons of mentors, you know, that's so important to me is having mentors and, and just always, just want to, I just want to be fed, you know, that. I want to be fed and I'll go, like, I'll go to the big companies. They open up the doors, like there's one coming. I'm not even doing any business with them right now, but I'm like, Hey, I need some help in these areas. Okay. Dimitria let me set. Let's set you up with our training and professional development department. And so I went and got, y'all got some, some knowledge and then I went to the office and I put. Set my expectations for my office. Like, we may be small, but we always think like a big company. I forget. It's mindset might set an effort. You can be a smart company, but you got big mindset, a big effort. You're going to go somewhere. Yeah. So you mentioned family. What kind of impact has your family had on you and what does family mean? Man family is everything to me. Um, I'm from a large family. My mom was from, it was 13 of them. My mom had eight kids, two sets of twins and I'm the oldest. So I had a lot of responsibilities, uh, as a child, you know, helping my mama with her kids. Right. So, um, you know, I have two songs. Um, I had, well, let me back up. I have six brothers and a sister. And I have two sons. I, my youngest son just celebrated his 35th birthday last week. He's. And then my oldest one, I lost him six years ago in, um, he had a car accident. So I lost him March 1st was six years. And that's what I NAMC is kind of bittersweet because my last conversation with him is when I was coming back from Miami lakes, getting named Mac approved. So it's like we gained something, but I lost them from as well. But my grief, I think my grief. I ha I needed, God just gave me what I needed at that time, because I poured everything into naming. If there was one to name, magnifiers, even running my business business, you know, get it out there and which he did. So I'm a grandmother. I raised, uh, two of my five grandkids. My son. My deceased son left me with four kids and two of them, three of them I have custody of, but, um, two of them, I have an eight and nine year old that lives with me. So, you know, and they keep us very busy. My husband, I mean, he's, he's one of my biggest supporters and cheerleaders because he helped out with the kids. And kind of keep things. He tried to keep me calm, gotta balance things out. But, um, but yeah, so, you know, I go back and I look and I think that, you know, especially on my mom's side and my dad's side of the family, you know, they're just some strong people's. I had a lot of people to look up to when I was. Well know, you know, a lot of people I've just told one of my cousins, she was giving somebody a shout out because of her career. She's an educator. And I was like, man, you inspired me. You know, you know, you inspired me to be a cheerleader to get all involved in school, you know? And she never even knew it. I don't think she never knew it, but, you know, but there's just so many people that I just pull from even to this day constantly. Mm Hmm. Well, you know, I'm seeing a theme. You're the eldest sibling. Uh, you got your own family, raising your grandkids. And so you, and there's a tremendous, like this theme of responsibility of, of growing, nurturing and supporting others. And now you're doing that for the community at large. Yes. So how do you care for yourself? To me? Um, you know, I've, I've done two vacations this year already, so, There's this place in Dallas called king spa, man. I tell you, last weekend, last Saturday, I spent six hours in that place, facials, you know, just going to all the different steam rooms and saunas. So I try to, um, you know, at cinema, make that a point once. To go treat myself to something like that. Once a month recently I had a car accident and I didn't know how good a chiropractor can make you feel So, um, I'm doing that like twice a month now, you know, even, yeah. I mean, I mean, I'm done with the whatever had like a little concussion or something that. and the other thing is like, you know, a party hard. I talked to my friends. Well, yeah, what's amazing is like, there's these big kind of, not kind of this really big traumatic events I got in a car wreck. Usually like, yeah, not now I just do this. Like you just persevere, like you just wrote. Yeah. That's just, that's in my blood, you know, that's just how I was raised and we don't have time to be, you know, my mama was to say, if you fall, you know, fall on your back, so you can just get back up, I've had adversity, adversities, I've had all kinds of stuff. I'm 50, I'll be 59 next month. And. Yeah. So I have, you know, I have I've truly have lived life. You know, I have lived my life and, and I, and if this, if this God's will, I want him to give me a whole lot of more years because there's still things I want to do. There's things I want to get accomplished. I want to see my grandbabies graduate from high school and getting college and all that good stuff too. Well, I think the amount of life that you're giving to others, I think there's like this magic. Formula that says the people that give and serve, they get extra time. You're getting extra time out here to continue giving and serving. So what I know about you so far, you're probably going to be able to do that. You're going to be able to do that for all of them grandbabies. We need it. We need you, we need more people like you out there and the people that you're inspiring, you know, you mentioned, mentioned mentorship a little while ago. What's it feel like to see the people that you've been mentoring? To see them thrive. Oh, wow. You know, it's just awesome. I'm going to give you an example. That was, um, she's a black female electrical master electrician been working, just working small jobs, whatever. I was seeing her around for years, I've seen her around and I'm like, girl, what are you doing? And she's like, I have an opportunity for you. I mean, she did. And just stuff like that, bringing them. Helping them get certified because at minority certification is really kind of like a competitive advantage when they need to meet numbers because, oh, it's good. Just to have it just in case, but I also believe in providing quality service as well, you know? So, um, but anyway, just watching them go from thinking that all they can do is residential and getting into the commercial side. You know, referring them to who my insurance company, referring them to the, to the, uh, the bonding, you know, whatever they need on the project, you know, um, just watching them, being able to read an RFP and submit on it. You know, those little, those little things, because again, I told you, we're trying to change the narrative of things around here. And, and be real, be real contractors. I mean, it's bad enough. People say in Texas, you guys don't even have to be licensed to be a contract. It's like, anybody can throw up a sign and say, Hey, I'm gonna be a contractor. If you don't have those systems and processes in order, it ain't gonna happen. Cause it's really tough. You know, it's like I'm taking a class in my last class on project planning and scheduling. Right. You know, this is the last one. But it takes time. So what people, if they don't want to go through it, I'll go through it and then I'll forever share what I'm learning and what I know. You and kidding? I, my dad, I'm a second generation plumber. I seen my dad started his business three or four times. Got chewed up and spit. Yeah. What was absent was those systems and processes. Like he could go and do quite high quality work and he could bring that, man. I never want to be able to work like him. Cause that make to this day can still out work me. I don't want to work that way, but the gap will be the systems, the processes, the planning, the banking, the financial management, all of them. I was absent. So it was high highs and low lows. Remember, like we got, I go help them on the weekends and we'd have breakfast tacos. And what we'll do is we would open up the hood of the truck and put them on the carburetor. So they would stay warm money to be going to the gas station to go get murders. Like we, we were just gonna make it, we got to make it. Okay. So here's the, here's the tough question. I don't know if you're ready for this one in your experience, and you have an amazing amount of experience years and contribution in the industry and in your community. What is a significant learning that you've had as a result of a painful misstep? It is still very fresh. Um, It is a turning. First of all, I turned something over to an estimator All right. Y'all we got a bit of a change here. Yes. I'm breaking up the flow and that's not going to change. It's going to stay the same, but the L and M family has spoken out and we've heard you loud and clear. What we are doing is the backstage passes. These clips that you're not going to be able to listen to on this audio version are now going to be available to everybody. On our YouTube channel. So head up our YouTube channel, subscribe, follow, like hit all the buttons and, and give yourself a little bit of a. Uh, learnings and missteps marathon and catch up on all the outtakes. We want to hear your comments and we want to know what you're learning from these things, because all of our guests have shared some pretty intimate, uh, missteps and have had some pretty profound learnings. And we hope that you can take that and apply that going forward and even teach it to your people, the people you care about. So, That is going to be the deal going forward. Thank you for supporting us and back to the show. the funny thing is. Nobody got me into this. I did this all by myself. I got to get my stuff out of this mess, but oh man, I love it. Okay. Well I know you're fixing to get back into class, so yes. Thank you so much. And I can't wait with you Monday. Yes. Ma'am we will be hanging out. We will be having fun. I really appreciate you being, like I said, tenacious and keeping logging in and finding a spot so we would get connectivity. Um, and maybe we'll do a little extra recording on Monday live. All right, Ms. Dimitria. Thank you. We, um, your perseverance for the, for, for this darn episode for this interview is like a reflection of your perseverance in life. And I know you got some good stuff for the L and M family out there. So the final question is what footprint do you intend to leave on the world? Um, passion. I want to leave. I want, I want people that the footprint for me is passion, whatever we do or whatever I do for me. If, if, if I don't have that passion, I can't make it happen. It won't come into fruition. But I think with passion, I mean, whatever. If this love, love heart. If it's work, work hard, if this your grandbabies, you know, if it's, you know, whatever that, what if is on your personal side or that business side, we have to have that passion. And, and with that passion, it ties into our purpose, you know? Oh, wow, that's good. That just came to me, you know, you know, and we are all here. We're all here in this universe because we have a purpose. And I purpose has to be something where we are inspiring and respecting other folks and whatever I do, you know, everybody tells me, oh, you have so much energy and which I do. And it's just a natural, uh, net. I mean, I just get high on life, you know, especially when it's something I really love doing my advocacy, for the community. Um, you know, if it's it's, whatever who I'm bringing into my company and not everything is everything's all, hunky-dory all the time. But since I have that passion, no one can take it away from me, you know? So that's my footprint. It's just passion and living in your purpose. Love it. Well, Dimitria, we've met and in very short order for all you, the L and M was out there, you don't even know, like I got to interview Demetrius Saturday morning, we bounced back and forth with connectivity issues. I got to meet her in real person, Monday at a golf tournament. She's the, you're like the czar, the queen, the commander of neymat got to meet all your executive director, that one, um, got to meet all your people. Got to hang out with you Tuesday evening at the mental wellness discussion. And y'all, if y'all can't feel her energy and the passion that she talked about, like it's real, it's contagious. Like I just want more and more Dimitria and then, like you just said, if it's work, work hard, if it's love, love hall. Like, it's not that complicated and that's so damn powerful Dimitra. Your, you got to go in on girl. Oh my goodness. So do you have fun? I had a great time. I had a great time. The golf tournament was awesome. The will the mental wellness. I don't even know if it was a workshop, presentation, discussion, whatever it was, all of that. Right. But it just totally blew me away. All the transparency. I thought it was a much needed conversation to have. And, you know, I know for me, it's just making me very comfortable to talk about what I'm feeling and knowing that there's something I need to do to deal with an issue that I'm dealing with. Yes. I really appreciate you. Gin. The whole panel was awesome. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. You know, we can get there's healing to be had, and, and it's super amazing when we do it together. We've got it. We got to share that. Right. We've got to share our pain. We've got to share our struggles. We have to share our wins because as we do that, we give others permission to do the same thing. And so I'm grateful to you. For making this fit. Cause I know you're a busy woman business leader got all kinds of balls in the air, making all kinds of things happen. So thank you for making the time Dimitrio and this episode, I'm going to crank it out and get it posted tonight. What do you think about okay. Oh, man. Did I tell you she's like super amazing. Can't wait to hang out with her again. Now they're at the very end we were talking about this, the live panel that we had around mental wellness. We had that in Dallas, Texas. Well, actually we're in Arlington. and it was a panel discussion with the Dallas community of practice, uh, lean group. And it's actually available. If you want to go back and watch the replay, take it in, check out the no BS with Jen and Jess page on YouTube or LinkedIn. And you'll be able to catch the recording of that really deep conversation. There were tears shared many, many people opened up. L and M family members and no BS, tribe members were present. So we really got to connect. Um, there's a beautiful thing. And of course, we've got to give a shout out to some LNM family members and these family members kind of the, I'm just going to say they've been abducted. I don't know how consistent, uh, listeners they are, but I do know the exhibit, the traits of LNM family members so this shout out is for Kyle Weller and Lee Crump, giving them a really special shout out because they are my first client. They brought me in to serve their business, said it before I am now independent out there looking to serve progressive business leaders who are committed to serving their people to a greater degree. And they trusted me enough to bring me in, uh, and, and interact with their leadership group. And it was, it was an amazing experience and I'm looking forward to more with them. So all you folks out there that know Kyle and Lee, give them a fiscal. Thank you from the LNM family and we'll see you again soon. Man you are one dedicated listener, sticking with us all the way through to the very, very, and please know that this podcast dies without you. And we invite you to share how the episode is impacting you along with your thoughts, questions, and suggestions. You have been gracious with your time. So we added social media links in the show notes to make it super easy for you to connect with. Be kind to yourself. Stay cool. And we'll talk at you next time.