Learnings and Missteps The Podcast

Calabo-Session #4 Managing Constraints

July 21, 2021 Jesse, Rene and Ernest Season 2
Learnings and Missteps The Podcast
Calabo-Session #4 Managing Constraints
Chapters
Learnings and Missteps The Podcast
Calabo-Session #4 Managing Constraints
Jul 21, 2021 Season 2
Jesse, Rene and Ernest

Felipe Engineer Manriquez and Jesse keep the momentum going into Chapter 4 of The Lean Builder. They start off with Constraint Management and true to form they vere off into their war stories which touch on a new set of KPIs, keeping trade parnters engaged and unsustainable success. And they didnt stop there somehow they came up with the hashtag #youcompleteus. Join in for some laughs and some Learning.

Contribute to the Mission at: https://www.patreon.com/learninsnmissteps

Connect with Felipe at: https://www.theebfcshow.com/

Connect with us at: https://www.learningsandmissteps.com/

Catch Felipes conversation with Fernanda at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTglZZINmaw

Show Notes Transcript

Felipe Engineer Manriquez and Jesse keep the momentum going into Chapter 4 of The Lean Builder. They start off with Constraint Management and true to form they vere off into their war stories which touch on a new set of KPIs, keeping trade parnters engaged and unsustainable success. And they didnt stop there somehow they came up with the hashtag #youcompleteus. Join in for some laughs and some Learning.

Contribute to the Mission at: https://www.patreon.com/learninsnmissteps

Connect with Felipe at: https://www.theebfcshow.com/

Connect with us at: https://www.learningsandmissteps.com/

Catch Felipes conversation with Fernanda at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTglZZINmaw

Felipe:

Jesse before then you look like shit, you look way better. Now.

Jesse:

It's interesting. Like how we convince ourselves or How I convinced myself that I'm convincing other people.

Felipe:

No, you could put the wheel on that. I mean, I feel guilty of that too, man. PUt are we on that I have some friends and I tell them, I was like, you're my friend that keeps me from believing my own bullshit.

Jesse:

Yeah. Well, and isn't that like the definition of a friend?

Felipe:

No, I have some other friends that helped me make more bullshit. Oh, I want to be one of those I like bullshitting.

Jesse:

Oh, yeah, we got some smack talking going on, on collabos session number four. And yes, I did say number four, which means there are three more that you may have missed. And if you didn't miss them, Thank you for continuing to come back because for real, man, it doesn't take that long to actually read the lean builder. So chapter four is all about constraint management. And of course Felipe and I veer off course just a little bit when we start talking about KPIs, key performance indicators, and question like, are we using the right ones? I'd really love to hear y'all's thoughts on, on the craziness that comes out of that conversation. Oh. And then we even talk about the platinum rule. And if you have not heard of the platinum rule, you're about to baby and it just may change your relationship. You know, I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. But once you've complete this episode, you will officially be halfway through the Calabosessions over The Lean Builder. And based on the downloads, I'm guessing that you may be having a good time. So we got some more good stuff coming for y'all I know Felipe says it all the time and I got the bug too scrum. And if you haven't started your scrum journey, yet I' ve got the perfect activity for you to put on thatScrum board hitting us up on patreon.com/learninsnmissteps. So you can get the fans only content, man. It's out there. It's waiting for you. And if that's not your flavor, that's cool, man. Keep coming back. We're having a good time with you. And here we go.

Felipe:

Now we can get, we can get back to taking over the world like, oh, well

Jesse:

Absolutely. We can go full force now.

Felipe:

I saw your you're already getting excited about who's more excited. It's obviously me. I'm way more excited about it than you. I mean, come on, man. It's like a,

Jesse:

oh

Felipe:

yeah. Some

Jesse:

knowledge in here, boy.

Felipe:

Girls. It's not discriminate and people that don't differentiate there's knowledge in here for everybody. Yeah. We're talking about the lean builder. Our boys Keyan and Joe don't call him Joey. He doesn't like that.

Jesse:

Oh really? Oh, I wish I didn't know that.

Felipe:

Yeah, we might edit that out, Jesse, but probably not. Don't call him Joey, Kick it off. I has talking to someone. In the Midwest last week. And they said that they actually had breakfast with Joe. Oh yeah. Shortly after the lean builder came out and Joe was dropping some knowledge on them. I don't know who paid for breakfast. I'm just gonna assume it was the person I was talking to because general contractors don't pay for meals just as a rule of thumb.

Jesse:

Was it like after one of his workshops or, or, yeah,

Felipe:

I person said they got a lot out of it. There's so many things and they have a successful business and they still had no idea of all the different things that they could do to make how they operate even better. And I thought that is just the truth for many people, myself included when you're learning somethingnew how about you, Jesse,

Jesse:

man, you know, when things are, are smooth and things are clicking It's I think that's the most dangerous situation. I know that sounds extreme. And so one example, I get to work with, with teams and projects and business units. And you know, if a project is making money, there's the sense that everything is fine. Like we don't need this stuff. Or if the measurement right, the, the key performance indicators are schedule and budget and we're hitting those historically than everything fine. Why do we gotta do all this extra stuff? But the reality is you may be hitting schedule and budget, but how many relationships are are broken within the like personal relationships? How many people are getting divorced? How many baseball, little league baseball games are getting missed? Yeah, you may be making money and you may be hitting, hitting the schedule, but people's lives are falling apart. And if they just, you know, practice some of this stuff, their lives would suck less.

Felipe:

Absolutely. On that one, didn't go too dark. No, you're making me flashback to just this week. So it's a, it's a beautiful Saturday. The sun's not even out yet where I am, but like always let's start with the darkness. And as the sun rises over, us will feel even better. But I talked to two young people and working in construction, working in a pre shovel, we'll say pre shovel. Pre shovel, construction partners. And they were telling me that over the last two weeks, they haven't been able to, you know, take a break for lunch. They haven't been able to go for a walk. They haven't been able to do any learning at work. They've been skipping all these things because the organization that they're working in has just been piling on a Mo the same tell you why it's not the same. They said it was the same amount of work. They're like, we can't do the same amount of work. And I said to them, I said, I realized that just two of you, did you know that your team used to be seven people? I mean, all these people just shifted out to post shovel. So your team got smaller and, and you had the talk with your boss about you can't do the same five things that you used to do before when you had more than twice, as many people. Yep. Until like, we didn't even realize that they got salt. So just caught in the wave or the flow of what the work was that nobody paused and even thought about what isfour people leaving our team, going to do to us. And in response to try to just keep up. Cause they were used to being successful because they were hitting all those KPIs before and they just wanted to keep hitting those KPIs. It's addicting success is an addiction yes. All right. So then they, they made personal sacrifices instead of just thinking a little bit differently or, you know, I put it on the organization to and on their boss for not even making a pause, like as people, as team sizes, change leadership needs to be cognizant of that change. And how are we going to support our current people? It's not realistic to think that I can just throw more on your back. And you're just going to handle it. It's not realistic. So if anyone's listening to this and you've just felt like the weight of something, get on your shoulders or on your back, someone's being unrealistic in your life. And it's time for you to just pause for a second and do a little more planning and be a little more transparent. And what's possible if it sacrifices your life. I think I'm going to just adopt Jessie's KPIs here. A little league games missed divorces are being on the path to divorce or sacrificing health. If you're doing any of those things, that's not sustainable. You're going to burn out and you're not going to be any good to your company. And you're definitely going to be fracturing relationships on the, the project you're on, which is exactly what we're going to see in this chapter today. Chapter four. Oh, yeah. Should we dive in and just watch the fiery mess? That is this champion. Yeah. It, you

Jesse:

know, it's, it's fitting, because this chapter starts off dark it's it's Monday morning and Sam's Monday is not going well at all. Like it started off rough and you know, I think Monday has a bad name. Mondays are my favorite day. Mondays are underappreciated, but I also have to admit that Sam's Monday, I don't want any day like that. But he got in an argument with the wife because he slacked he made, he made a poor life decision in choosing the Dallas Cowboys as well. I was going to

Felipe:

say a hundred percent.

Jesse:

So that was kind of made that up, but that's his problem. He made that. I

Felipe:

underline that one too.

Jesse:

Yes. But back to the point that we started with, the note I wrote down here is, you know, work is interfering with home responsibilities. You didn't put the crib together. Was it a crib? Yeah, he hadn't done that in his leisure time. Like everything was starting to bottleneck at home. Yeah. And I think it's safe to assume that it's a result of the pressures and the focus in the workplace.

Felipe:

But I think it's a, it's a parallel to, like, at this point, we're only through chapter four in the book and Sam hasn't implemented a more sophisticated planning methodology at work to get stuff done with his team. And I'm not surprised that at his home life, he's not achieving what he needs to achieve and stinking care of biz. You, I'm not perfect either, but in my home life and in my work life, I use the same frame. It's scrum Lavi. There, there we go. Bam. However many minutes just dropping that you don't always have to have sticky notes and like people that are really good at Pull planning last planner, you can mentally put some of that in your mind. It just creating that flow. He procrastinated because he didn't understand how important that stuff was for his wife, making that crib, you know, nesting out, getting the home ready for the coming baby. And yeah, Sam, there'll be more things on the list after you take care of that one, but such as life. And it's always something else to do afterwards. That's the excitement of being alive. But it was a terrible day and you know, did some, stayed up late, got into snoozed, got into traffic. Snoozing is never the right answer.

Jesse:

It's not, it's like, it's like having another slice of pizza. It feels good in the moment, but it's going to have longterm implications. So that's why I order two slices of pizza instead of whole pizzas. Cause I'll eat the whole damn thing. That's smart. And so the, on the scrum point, I have a question. Yeah. I have an answer. Oh, I know you do. So it's just application of scrum at home. Is it, is it just a safe bet to, to let mama be the product owner?

Felipe:

That's always the safe play, unless you're mama, then maybe you let dad be the product owner. It depends on. So for the work, you know, we can shift like as you practice it and you get good at it. There's some things that need to be done if somebody has a little more ownership than others. So if it's something like in my house, for example, when we look at money, my scrum board here, hold on. Oh, Okay. So there's a tag. I can see a tag on my scrum board right now that I didn't write. So there's, there's one about teaching my son, the benefits of keeping his room tidy that's on me. Oh, so that's a mission, bro. There's a lot of psychological warfare that has to go to make that tag come to fruition. And it's, it's been on the backlog. It's the way it was brought to me was, was by my wife. She's the mother of my child is amazing little kid, by the way, it's tough to be in Felipe's house as a child, just for everyone. If you're wondering like how crazy it is, it's crazy. It's crazier than you think it is. And so, yeah, my son, you know, some parenting things ended up on the scrum board. So for her, that, that one's like super important. I first came to top a list and there are other things on there and I was like, I agree and understand when and negotiate. Yeah. Right. And then there's other things that I put on there. Yeah. And then we have to negotiate. So there are times where I act in that role and there are times as she acts in that role. And even my son, my son's got a couple tags up there too, for some stuff that he, that are important to him. So I think whoever, if you're in the family situation, the role is just constantly shifting with who has the most ownership of the tag, and you still need to negotiate. And the most important thing, Jesse is you still prioritize, where's it gonna fit in this flow? Like, as things are happening, you know, from Friday night to Sunday night, or sometimes things go for Monday afternoons to, you know, Friday afternoons, how's this flow happening. And as a family, it's so powerful for everyone needed to see and have those conversations on negotiations and prioritize. And even when we don't have the. And we're like out in, in life, in the moment, you know, we're at a restaurant or, you know, walking to the park or do we still have those types of conversations where what's the most important thing we do right now, so that all of us have the best time possible. And that's where you can do scrum 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Like I was telling just to close the loop on is cause my gods to so much, but I asked my son the other day, I said in the world, you can either be pushed around by the way. Or you can co-create with it. Hmm. And so like, if you're co-creating, your creativity is on you're way more engaged in the other way, you might just be a victim. You could just be a doormat. You could just be taken advantage of. These are all things that might happen to you and knowing you likely will happen to you because how you are, you know, just being young and not knowing better. Yes. I said, but if you feel, if you get into those situations and you know, like it, and you're probably not prioritizing, you're not thinking about, how to do it. I was just on LinkedIn today. And I saw someone had posted a Jordan Peterson post on LinkedIn and they were talking, the person was talking about why executives don't use lean at work. And I thought, wow, coming at executives with the Jordan Peterson video was brilliant. And one of the things that Jordan says all the time is makeup bloody schedule . And then I can't do my Canadian accent on. Right. But he says, make a bloody schedule, like make a list of what you want to do and then just do it. And wow. What a, it's like such a novel concept and he's a psychologist and a lot of the people that he helps, they don't do that. They just kind of go blow in the wind. The wind blows them this way. They go that way, they get blown this way. They go that way and that's okay. Sometimes. Like I'm not super regimented where I'm always trying to be like, all right. It's like 9 0 5, do this. Okay. Three minutes. Okay, I'm done. Now do this. Like, no, it's not that regimented, but have your priorities and going, and that's what Sam failed to do here on the weekend. He sacrificed because he didn't have a plan. And then later in the book, he makes it worse. He sacrificed his family again a second time in the chapter, which I love that he didn't learn his lesson and he keeps sacrificing things that I don't think he's aware of what he's giving up. You can't get those things back. Sam, Sam, my heart hurt. When I saw that the second time that week you made a poor choice on the family. You can't get that time back. It's gone, baby. Where do you want to go? Jesse? I've been talking

Jesse:

too long I say we go to page 63 and you you've infected my mind. And the evidence of that is the note like the very last paragraph or statement there on page 63, Sam, Sam starts talking smack, he's talking about the designers, the, the trade partners brought some issues that in the moment seem extremely severe and are going to impact schedule. And naturally sam says these idiot designers. Right. Blame assigning blame. No investigation has taken place, no question, nothing just dammit another problem. And it, it, it screams to me that our nature and I'm not under, I'm not clear why, but our nature as human beings is to assign blame. And then as soon as we assign blame, we feel better. So for example, you know, I've been, I've shared my space with other human beings in my life. And when things, aren't where I thought they should be, I had to blame them first. Now. If I left my keys or, or my coffee cup, where I think I normally leave them and they're not there. My first thing is where did you put my keys? Where did you put my cup? And that like alleviate some stress for me and then I can hunt around and then I find it, or I left it in the truck, right? Some goofy plates are on, on the tailgate, on the toolbox, in my bag and my lunch bag. But my immediate reaction is to assign blame rather than to investigate and further understand where the thing might be or where the break in my process is that lends itself to me, misplacing things same here, man. So to all of y'all that, that suffered through spending enormous time with me. I apologize for blaming you, but I did it so that I could find my stuff

Felipe:

except for Renee,

Jesse:

except for Renee Renee, too bad brother. That's just what you got. Skipping through that thing just keeps that, that snowball keeps building. Someone else comes in with another problem. And another problem at to some point Sam's like, yeah, get in line, like it's not a good day. He comes in late. Of course, I'm not, I'm not sure about you Felipe , but I really being on time is a big thing. It's an important thing that I'm on time. I love it when other people are on time. So like you and I recording and setting up the communication to prep, like always on time, really, really loved that. And, and by on time, it's not, if seven o'clock is start time being physically there at seven o'clock is not my definition of being on time. Being on time is showing up with the appropriate buffer of time so that I can. Let go of whatever I went through coming to this new space so that I can be present so that I can get to know people. And so, so that I can deliver a quality engagement and that that timeframe may differ. Like if I'm facilitating a class, I probably need to be there an hour, hour and a half early to get, to make all those things happen. If, if it's a one-on-one engagement, 15, 20 minutes may be enough for me to be fully present and ready to give that person my undivided attention and, and, and help them leave with a smile that's being on time. And so he's already coming in late, right? There's a wreck. He forgot his phone at home. And then

Felipe:

on his job, pro-con builders has a policy that only the superintendent can unlock the gate, which I thought was like so bad. Oh dude, my plumber from another mother I'm like,

Jesse:

see, you're taking me back. You're taking me back. Flashback, man. We were on this one project. It was tough. It was a small finish out. It was no complexity to it at all, got a few bathrooms and chill, water systems, small chill, water, small refrigerant piping. , and the GC was not happy with anybody. He just found things to complain about and raise hell about, but he was consistently late to open up the building to the point where one, of course believe it or not. I lost, I lost my cool. And he started his stuff again about scale. And this was early on when I first discovered the power of email. And you better believe when I discovered that I became one of those keyboard warriors. So he sent out this email, right? Like, you know, blah, blah, blah. They all are behind the people you're sending nobody's on, you know, just whatever y'all, don't have a plan. Things are messed up. And so I replied, cause I, of course I'd take notes and I replied with dates and the times he showed up to open the damn building, well that individual, it wasn't the superintendent. He was the project manager slash superintendent major control guy. Right? Like he could do it all by himself. That guy ended up getting, let go from the organization and, and, and that, you know, I don't, I never, it's never fun for people to lose their job, but the point is. If you really want to piss trade workers off, don't let them work right when you're not on time and you got policies or systems that doesn't facilitate them accessing the work. When they show up to work, you best be ready for some frustrated people.

Felipe:

I hear this all the time. It'd be on a project and it could be small, big, medium, large it's every job I've ever heard. One of the trades wants to start at a certain time. Like typically in the United States, 7:00 AM is pretty normal for a star. And then there'll be some trade that wants to start at like six 30 or six. And most superintendents are like, Like just by default, like, no, like we all come in at the same time and we're all leaving at the same time and we're all being late together. I haven't been able to get my hand on that and I even try to, I try to see it in the field. So like some, sometimes the projects we'll let that happen. They'll let you know one trade start at six 30 or 6:00 AM. And then you know, those same jobs where they're pouring concrete. If weather conditions require they'll pour concrete at 3:00 AM, like if you're in Vegas where it gets super hot, and sometimes you have to pour concrete in the early hours of the morning, otherwise you have problems with finish. It's a no brainer. Everyone's just like, well, because of the environmental conditions, it's no problem to start early. And those jobs, somehow all the work still happens, even with trades starting at different times. And I'm just like, what planet am I on? Where, you know, we can let the environment dictate to us and make it happen and adapt but if there's no environmental force, we want to all be on exactly the same seven to three 30 or seven to three. I just don't. I don't get that. Jessie. I do. You know, something that I don't know.

Jesse:

This is what I think it is. Some people would rather wrestle than dance there's like, you talked about it earlier, you get in, you get in a flow man, you connect with, with everything and you got flow. But some people want it their way. And what that means is there's going to be a whole lot of wrestling and obviously they're getting some kind of reward for that. Otherwise they wouldn't do it. And when I say reward, I'm not talking about a raise. I'm not talking about a promotion. I'm talking about some kind of intrinsic reward that they're getting from creating those types of challenges. There's something they're filling, some need that they have, and they may not be aware of it. But I think. It's another missed opportunity. So if I'm, if I'm in charge and I got the keys and I'm the only one with the keys, I mean, really I did it as a foreman. Like I was the only one that had the keys to all the gang boxes for a short period of time. And mind you, people knew that Friday mornings and Monday mornings, Jesse's going to be late and he's bringing tacos to make up for it because Thursday night was softball and Sunday was Sunday. And, you know, somehow I I'd have a few extra beers on those nights, not a few way, too many anyhow. And the music, the missed opportunity is in being able to develop capabilities within other team members. And what I mean by developing capabilities is assigning and sharing those types of responsibilities. These two junior or aspiring leaders. So that they can take that load off of you. Cause really I don't need to have the damn keys. Somebody else can handle those keys. But in my, at that point in time, my understanding was I am responsible for everything and therefore I must control everything. What I didn't understand was that I'm also responsible for developing the people around me. And it may seem like a simple thing, but handing those keys over to somebody else and saying, Hey bro, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I need you to be here at six 30 so that you can unlock and get everybody prepped Thursday and Friday, I'll take that over. And, and six unlocking the gang boxes means X, Y, and Z. And I'm going to, you know, I'm counting on you to do this. So that's building a small capability, but when we don't share those types of responsibilities, we're actually shortchanging the individuals that want to grow them careers. Is that too woo for you?

Felipe:

It was not at all. And a lot of people don't know this, but I got to be a superintendent for a year. I had the fortune of having Mr. Tony brown was my general labor foreman. And Tommy schooled me down. when I got the charge, he pulled me into the, into the room where they had all the supplies and we had a, we had a meeting like no other he's like, let me sit you down. Young brand new. Tony had been a labor foreman for probably a decade. And he'd been in the trades his whole life. You know, he was, he was already a foreman by the time I was born. So he sat me down and he had, we had this conversation, you and I are having, he had. And he said, I can, I can do this with you because I know that you're open to listening and you'll at least try it. You're not like those other people. And I was like, Hmm. I was like, well, I like not being like those other people. Well, he was different. You never even played me to my, he is so smart. He even manipulated me perfectly stroke. The ego in that, at the end of that conversation, I gave him keys to make copies of, and we shared in some of the responsibilities, like you talked about opening the site and that was awesome. We never had, , friction on people waiting to do work. Now, there were other times where I messed up, but we had friction was had, you know, got in my face. But but never with Tony. Yeah. Tony and I had a fantastic relationship that was built on mutual trust. And we both developed each other and I told him, I said, even though I'm quote unquote in charge, I was like, you're running stuff out here. So yeah. Anything I can do to help you and make sure that we run this well, like you've seen this thing done 50 times that I'm seeing done for the first time or the sometimes the second time. And that was priceless. Like there's nothing in this book, you know, I read the whole book. There's never a story of a foreman teaching Sam, anything, which I was just like, that's a little weird, well, maybe that'll come out in the second book

Jesse:

or maybe that's a book that I need to write. Yeah, exactly. You know, when I first got into the industry or into like foreman roles and I'd go to the trailers for the meetings and all that. And every member of the general contractor team had the silver highlights. They were seasoned that they'd been in the industry 20, 30 years. And then somewhere along the road, I want to say it was probably 12 to 15 years. They got younger and younger and younger, like overnight too. Yeah, it was, it was just like bam and yes, yes. I, I also was maturing and becoming fantastically seasoned myself, but what was really happening behind the scenes is people were retiring and exiting exiting our industry. Yep. Now we have a large volume of individuals that have maybe five years of experience right. In that range. That's right. One to five. And, and I get to hear this from trade partners quite often. And I want to share this with our listeners or with the family, with the people out there, taking all this good stuff in, especially those that are young, that are early in their careers. In the first one to five, I've heard trade partners say over and over that man, there there's this thing that's happening with these younger folks. And they don't call them younger folks. Right? These college kids is what they refer to them as, which is there's, there's, there's a lack of respect in that label. But they come to me like they know everything and they really don't know much at all. And I heard it, I heard it, I heard it several times and finally asked one of the guys that he works for a baker drywall. And I'm like, Hey bro, I keep hearing that. Can you tell me what they can do so that you don't feel that way? And he says, man, if they would just ask us. I've got four men out there that I got 40, 50 years old read, you know, they got, they got knowledge, right. And if those youngsters would just ask us, we are happy to share our ideas, to explain it to them, to teach them, but they don't ask. All they do is tell. And I think that's a result of, you know, ambition. I wanna know. I wanna, I want to present myself in such a way that I've got credibility, but what you're really doing is undermining your credibility. If you take the time to ask one of those individuals that's been in the trade 10, 20 years, they will proudly share their knowledge with you and they will appreciate you deeply. And all it takes is change those words. What do you think I want to know about this? Can you teach me, can you explain this? And that unlocks a whole different world.

Felipe:

Absolutely does. No, I think it's totally true. I had a drywall foreman. Let's just say his name is Rob that I work with recently. And Rob said to me, he's like Philippe, the thing that general contractors don't understand. And he's like, and he didn't call them college kids. He just called them kids. And, you know, Rob was like 60 years old and still slinging, full sheets of drywall, like a boss. And Rob said he's like, I've been a foreman for for a decade. I've been running large crews more time than these kids have been even in school. And he said stop telling me what to do. Instead you should just ask me or show me what needs to be done. He's like, I know how to get there, show me what you want. Tell me what you want. And let me get there with my. And then we even had a meeting, a schedule meeting with them, cause this was like some sophisticated stuff that we were doing with you know, specialty plaster inside and outside of the building. And the schedule was a little bit tricky. It was a little complex and we're in the meeting and I saw his, he had a young project manager getting all excited who was like a master of Microsoft project. And he was a keyboard. Yeah. Warrior, gang style do stuff. And he built the schedule out based on estimate rates. And, and Rob's like, that's not gonna work. And, you know, as a general contractor, I'm just in like in awe here they are the frame we're trying to present us their, their way, their path to get there. And they're not even in agreement. And I said, well, let me just be listening and respectful because sure. We've got to get there with everybody. And there were things that we needed to do to get it ready for them to. But even in his own company, he had a young PM that went to college and he'd only been on a college for 10 years. Brilliant, brilliant PM. I mean, I ain't taking nothing away from him, but even he didn't ask Rob and Rob said, I'm telling you, because you already ask, you already listened. And I said, Rob, I only do that because I had an, an iron worker, a general foreman get in my face once in a very uncomfortable way that let

Jesse:

you know, big dog

Felipe:

or my life was threatened. And I knew it was being threatened. And and it was my fault because I didn't understand. And I, I cost this guy money. Like I, I, I made a decision Jesse that costs, that costs an entire crew day, you know, money right out of his hand because of the snap decision I made because of schedule pressure that later turned out to be wrong. Just like what scam with Sam Messina here in the book, So if you're out there young bucks and people, if you're out there, just ask people. Yes. Somebody knows, just ask, tell people what you're being pressured. If, if you're a general superintendent and you're on a GC, they're pressuring you to go do this, go do that, get the trades to do this. I hear this in trailers all the time. If the trades would only do what we tell. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. That's like, I've done that. I've

Jesse:

done that malicious compliance, like, okay, dummy. This is the way you can tell me how to do it. I'm going to do it. And when I get stuck, I'm going to wait for you to come and fix it for me. And then I'm the jerk, right? Yeah.

Felipe:

Instead of just tell people like, this is what we're trying to achieve, why we're trying to achieve it because we're all, we're all interconnected on the project, right. Even here, the, you know, Sam. It has to have that uncomfortable conversation because he goes off on the architect just goes off on her, calls her out of the blue. She's just working, minding her own business and he just goes off and I love how it was unfounded.

Jesse:

Hmm. Oh yeah. He's going to eat some humble pie. He called raising hell stirring it up. I'm sure he was hollering. Just taking it on the person that's not in the room. Right, right. Somebody that's out there has no idea, no question asking, just barking yelling. You need to bring your ass to the site period. And of course you

Felipe:

need to get here right now. I haven't sent you an RFI. I haven't told you what the issue is. You just need to get here. No,

Jesse:

serve me. In one thing in that whole barrage that I'm sure the architect felt. What stood out to me was his pronouns, meaning he calls her and he says, your drawings are all jacked up. So your is now we're an accusation mode right now. I have major issues, not the drawings. And we've got situations on the project. It's you and I we're, we're now in battle mode, if you want to set somebody off, use the wrong pronouns and you'll trigger that I need you out here ASAP and there's, I understand the message, but there was different language. You change your pronouns and say, Hey, the drawings are, there's an issue in the drawings. I'm not accusing her. I'm not blaming her. I'm surfacing a process. And the issues are going to have implications on us, delivering the project as committed. And so now we're talking about this project that we're all working on today together. It's not you and I anymore. It's surfacing problems. And it gets, you see this all the time where people, you know, one-on-one personal dynamics and they, I get calls like, man, you know, dah, dah, dah. It's like, okay, well tell me what happened. And really the first thing I'm listening for is what pronouns they're using. Like, okay, so you made it a you and I think, and what do you mean? I said, well, when you, this is what you explained to me, this is what I heard. And like I said, did you use those words? Yeah. Okay. But was it them? Well, no, I oh, I think so. Did you all even get to talk about the problem? Well, no. Cause he got pissed off or she got pissed off. Yeah. Shocking. You came at them, right. You came at, come at me, bro. And it's, it's a tough shift, but it's a powerful shift. And, and the other part I think is that contributes to that is our culture is not accustomed to surfacing problems. Like we don't know how to do that appropriately. When there's a problem, rather than letting it be a neutral situation that we need to get more resources involved to address it, we receive a problem as a, I don't know, like almost a failure or an indictment against our own capabilities. And so we've got a long way to go before. I mean, my dream is to be on a project or work with the team. Or surfacing problems is celebrated. And when we get to that point, it's not you and I anymore. It's, it's the situation and the facts. Am I on cloud nine

Felipe:

again? No, that makes total sense. I'm just, I'm listening and I'm, I'm I'm with you, man. I mean, I do see the beautiful clouds behind you and was, was almost like I got optimistic for a second. When you said, you know, you're excited to get to the day where we, we get excited to surface problems and then the clouds behind you secretly turn black and scary and autonomous. And I thought, I'm not sure I share that optimism that that's going to be any time in my lifetime, especially with the the American education system that gears us towards finding problems. You just think of like how you get graded in school. Like when you make mistakes, it's red marks. It's a stern talking twos and the poor kids today, Jesse. Sometimes when they get bad grades, they have to have the parents sign their homework. And I'm just like, wow, tattle, like teacher just tattle tailing. Like it can't be that the teacher didn't teach. It's gotta be that the kids just act up and then you're just getting the parent involved. And I don't like that, like that whole chain of blaming the kid for not learning or, you know, we bring that to work then and we get to work and then something doesn't go wrong and right away your creativity turns on to make it not your fault and CYA cover your assets always. Yep.

Jesse:

Yep. Well, it's a punitive, it's a punitive engagement and, and that's a fabulous point in that this, this programming this mind programming is not just in construction. It's not just Sam, right? It's, it's a part of a bigger system that conditions us to behave and interact in certain ways. And to, you know, using the teacher example there, it sounds like there's deflection of responsibility all the way through that chain, right? Teacher, student, parent, the reality is each stakeholder has contributed to the situation. Like without a doubt, they have contributed to the situation. And rather than assigning blame, when we transitioned to taking ownership for the role, we have played those punitive interactions start decreasing. But again, because of our system, the larger system that we all swim in, we're not conditioned to take ownership. We're conditioned to assign.

Felipe:

Even in the book where, some of the ceiling conflict that gets on the constraint board. This is all about managing constraints. The first time we say managing constraints, by the way, Jesse, you know, first time

Jesse:

I love

Felipe:

constrain straights and they they do like a quick, they don't do like a five. Why would they just dig in? And they find that the insulator didn't have the right drawing and they were installing on, on base drawings. And I thought, oh, that's blaming the insulator for your poor document control because you're letting people come out here with not the right information. And, and the architect didn't coordinate because likely because just the quality of the drawings is such. They don't include the real coordination of what are the elements outside of the finishes in their building. And so ceilings are getting lowered so that they can have clearances because they just didn't coordinate with the mechanical engineer. And it's not for not trying to coordinate the mechanical engineer. Isn't putting down like duct sizes or mains. There's just less detail, like even what owners are buying from the design teams. It's just not as detailed as, and I think it's because they don't want to pay because they think that they're so used to the coordination and the change orders in the field. But that ASI I'm sure has a change order associated with it. If you're going to lower it, I'm sure the owner at the hospital is having to pay a premium for that change after construction has started and it's like, what's the design fit. No, it really wasn't finished at the time that they started. They started too soon. So then you have to manage constraints and we're always going to have constraints to manage, even if you do more coordination earlier. So I'm not naive, not naive.

Jesse:

It, it makes me think of some powerful tools that are out there. And I got to listen to your conversation with Fernanda . And, and so there's two, I see two things, right? There's a value set that skews the focus, and then there's some tools that just aren't being utilized to their fullest potential. When I say tools and, and listening to you and Fernanda talk about BIM in the degree of the study that she did, I'm like, oh my goodness. It gave me a whole new appreciation for that in the sense that, I mean, she did some deep, deep study and was able to. The I'm going to call it the digital performance of BIM versus the analog performance of human beings, overlaying sheets on a, on a light box and don't get me wrong. Like I still think light boxes are the coolest thing in the world, but in BIM when your coordinator, she, one of y'all said something that just totally resonated. Is, do you really need to include the fricking door handles in the model? Like what, now that question is a hard, no, for anybody on the job site, that's building that question is a hard yes. For people that deeply appreciate the aesthetics of the building.

Felipe:

Well, like I said, that value system to note it's on that value system. So the people that, that model, they make a living modeling. Yup. Right. So the more they model. As good work for them. It's what they're doing. Just like people in the field make a living installing real work. Right. And the model has its point, but sometimes people forget. I love that you brought that up because the con the constraints there on that site were the team said we weren't contracted to that. So they, even though the technology was there and made available, and they had a license, it still wasn't in their, their deal. And they didn't have the skillset. That's a constraint, a lack of skill for another way to coordinate is a constraint that you have to overcome. You have to manage that that'd be worth putting on a constraint board. Testament to Fernandez passion on that issue. On her own on her own time, she would be in the all-day coordination meeting and then stay up late every night to do the same coordination in the model to get her statistics, to make the comparisons I thought was like, you're just obsessed with knowing. I mean, she's just obsessed with knowing like what it is and what it takes. And that to me was like one of my favorite parts of that. I'm going to have to pull a clip out of that. And we'll throw that we'll throw a link here to that so people can check that part out.

Jesse:

It was powerful. You know, the other thing with, you know, with spending too much money on BIM Ive been on many, many projects where we, the team decided not to make that investment and, and it's it, same thing with last planner system, same thing with, you know, lean principles, linked tools in order to leverage, or rather in order to realize the benefits of those things. It's an exercise in delayed gratification. Ooh,

Felipe:

powerful Jessie, tell me more.

Jesse:

Watch out. We'll stick with this BIM, the coordination thing. I got to pay a bunch of money, right? There's a, there's a dollar value to have that coordination and have coordinators involved and generate this thing before construction even begins. And we are not going to feel or see the benefit of that until the clashes are avoided. And when the clashes are avoided, it's easy to think that the clashes never existed. And so the time investment and the dollars associated with that way up at the front end, nobody is going to realize the benefits of that until they don't have the problem, so that requires delayed gratification. For me to say, we ain't going to spend that money. That's too big, a price ticket. And we don't have the time to plan is instant gratification because now I've made a decision. I'm a thought, you know, I'm a leader. I made a decision but the truth is pay me now or pay me later because you're gonna pay baby one way or the other. You're going to pay big with the delays, with the frustrations, with the late nights, with all of that stuff that we all know is ahead of us. And it could be minimized by the front end investment. And all of a sudden you have time to go to that baseball game and you have time to build that crib with a smile on your face.

Felipe:

Yeah. I take some pictures too, so that your kids can see it later. My son still gives me crap about, there are no pictures of us. Oh, I was like, let's just go to the store. I'll just show you some cribs. Just imagine that was your,

Jesse:

what you should do is say, buy him one and take here, put it together. You want to know what the experience is like? You, you go,

Felipe:

no, it's going to be so awesome when that happens. It's going to happen. No, I think that's a really good point, Jesse, like that, that it's worth saying twice, pay me now or pay me later. And that's, what's happening here to Sam. He didn't have a way to track constraints and he was keeping it all in his head. And he says a couple of times in the book that, and he even tells Kate the architect, this is the list that keeps me up at night and he wasn't sleeping well until he got it on a whiteboard. And just that act of writing it down and taking the weight off of his shoulders and seeing like it's not Sam's list of issues. I've I've Jesse I've received spreadsheets that are titled. By a superintendents first name issues list. Yep. And I didn't appreciate it until you just now, when you sent it, I'm realizing now that that superintendent is taking that, all that responsibility for everything that's on there and they're putting it on themselves. Like, like it's my, and I'm like, man, this is not your thing. And I remember getting into it, we talk about that list at staff meetings and they weren't, they weren't his issues. Yeah. They were the project's issues, but the list was labeled that way. And he was taking everything personally and blame was being doled out and assigned. And it's just, it was completely inappropriate, a lot of wasted energy if we would have had a constraint board instead, or if we changed that spreadsheet instead to say what the issue is, who owns the issue, who has the ability to resolve it, the who, and when will it get resolved? Yep. Man, that's so much more powerful than just a list of problems.

. Jesse:

Oh, totally. Yeah. Now we have the constraint board constraint log, whatever, whatever way you choose to use it is it's a mechanism to acquire resources that will affect a problem that you have that is outside your circle of influence. Right? When we say the super, like to your example, the issues list, the list, that list that that superintendent has, and you said it beautifully, they're taking responsibility for all of that. They feel like they're at fault. And if they're not completed, they are feeling they are swimming in a sense of failure. That ain't fun. No, the truth, the reason they're putting it on the damn list is because it's outside their circle of influence. They need help closing those things. And in the constraint log, the constraint board is a beautiful mechanism. To surface problems and acquire resources to close the dam constraints for the purpose of advancing the project. And so side note, trade partners, we've had to do this. I've worked on projects where we were the, the trade partner was the only one using last planner system and using the constraint log. This was beautiful and it was so, I mean, I wish I had video of it cause it to show the transformation of what was happening. We had way too much manpower on the job and our production was horrible. It was at the end of the job. So there were loose ends all over the place. My project manager was like, Jess, I need some help out here. Like these guys don't have their plan. They don't, you know, they're not executing well, people standing around, okay, let me come check it out. So I walked the job and talked to everybody and discovered, well, it's not that there's not a plan. They're planning on getting work done. However, There are things that need to be done by other trade partners in order to release the work for us to complete it. If I came back and I said, dude, this is, this is a couple of pages of what I saw in the last three hours. Does anybody know about this? Like, man, I'm tired of them complaining. So even within the trade partner, he's viewing the foreman and his own people complainers. And like, dude, they're not complaints. They're real issues. We can't paint that wall. That's not, we don't have that skillset. Somebody else does. We can't grout the tile. We can't install the damn countertops. Like these are the things that are holding up your production and your role in this is to clear the damn constraints leaders. Our responsibility is to set direction and make work. Ready? That do that, please. Anyway. So I say, let's use the constraint logs. Like, man, I don't really like losing, I say, yeah, clearly I can, do you want to lose money or not? It's okay. Fair enough. Use the constraint on here's. What I'm going to ask you to do. Let's fill out this constraint log. What is the action? Who's responsible and secure a commitment as to when it's going to get completed and send it to the GC. And I had them until I said, send it to these like, whoa, you know, it's going to piss them off. It's going to really get them ruffled. And I said, I, I, I agree. But again, do you want to make money or do you want to keep getting your butt kicked? Took a couple of weeks to leave. Finally sent it to the GC. And of course w the sky was falling down. The ominous clouds came over. Cause now they, the GC felt blamed and they were being accused. And so, you know, it was, I like man, like, why are they were just saying, like, we need. Getting these, this is outside our sacred circle of influence. We need to leverage your contractual relationships and just your sheer influence of being the, the, the leaders on the project. And then I was like, in listening to them, I'm like, oh, they're hung up on the word constraint. Nobody likes to be a constraint. No, I said, okay. So after the meeting, I came back, I said, all right, bro, here's what I think we need to do change, take the word constraint out and call it, make ready, needs like that. And he said, what do you mean? I said, let's try it. Is it? Cause EV I kept hearing them. They don't like the word constraint, change it to make ready needs, because really those are the things that need to be done to make our work ready. I'm not kidding, dude. All he did was change the title of the file and delete the word constraint and type in make ready needs totally different world. So trade partners and all of a sudden work we knew, they were like, okay, we're going to get these this area. And they were giving us dates. And then we were able to schedule our manpower. We're able to cut the damn manpower by 40% because we knew they weren't going to be ready for us. So those people didn't need to be on the job like it turned into. It was almost the dream scenario. But bottom line trade partners out there that are practicing LPs or using a constraint log and the GS it's it's foreign to the general contractor or GCs, right. General contractors out there that are using it. And it's a foreign concept to them. It may help if you change the title to make ready needs, because now it's, it's, it's less accusational

Felipe:

make ready of needs is beautiful. And I think in the, in its purest form, when you're negotiating work with people, no matter what kind of scheduling framework you're in, it really is the work you're going to do what you're going to give and what you need, so you can give it. And I started off on my career, first job out the gate as an intern on punch list. And I learned that that job, I knew it was a 10,000 item punch list. So, you know, that's the magnitude of the punch list I was working on, you know, 12 floors, massive mechanical room. I mean, there's just. Crazy punch list. It was like a thousand items, a floor roughly on this building, all hand typed by my, my little stupid hand hands two hands. Okay. And I realized going through that whole punch list, exercise, the same thing you're saying, Jesse, most of the things that we assigned, you would just assign it based on the major scope. A lot of those things were probably 80% of those things, right. Or damage, or just misclassification or in order for you you'd have one issue, like a tile around a floor drain. You can have three people involved. And the training that I got from the GC was to just name all three people. So then all, all three trades get the same item, but there's no sequence in it. And so the first person to respond to that, it was like, it's not my issue. I can't do anything until the grouts. Yup. Imagine that's happening with half of your issues. It's 5,000 issues that can't resolve because there's no sequence, no thought we just want to go put on a list. We want to shift the blame that the client's looking at bad quality shifted to the trades. You need to plan, if you want to close off and you can actually build without a punch list, do, by the way I've seen it happen. By the way, if you're using something like last planner, more often than not. I see those jobs have no punch list by the way, how much money could you save trade partners in GCs? If you didn't have to come back and do punchless work, that's not in your bid, by the way, ask your estimator where the line item is for fixing defective work. It's not in your bid.

Jesse:

I know the, the actual real dollar amount of what will be saved without punch lists and it's a universal dollar amount. Of course,

Felipe:

I want to hear

Jesse:

it. The official dollar amount that would be saved with zero punch list is goals of dollars would be safe.

Felipe:

Yeah. How can I translate that to our non San Antonio, ah, speakers? That's probably a mountains of dollars,

Jesse:

mountains and mountains of dollars. Lots of lots of money. So where I'm at now is the Sam and Allen connect, they go and have beer in Alan's venting. I'm sorry. Sam's venting. And Allen's, you know, listening attentively until Sam starts describing almost bragging. That's the sense I got about how he, how he laid it down. Right. He told the architect And then Alan, like his, his, his smile started straightening out. And he was like, oh, this isn't cool. This is, this is definitely a misstep. And you know, at the bottom of page 69, he he's advising Sam to follow the golden rule. Right. Which is treat others as you, as you would want to be treated. And it made me think of the platinum rule. Have you heard the platinum rule?

Felipe:

Haven't heard of the platinum rule. I've heard of the solar roll. I'll drop that on. You give me the platinum rule

Jesse:

first. Okay. So the platinum rule is a little sh small shift treat people the way they want to be treated.

Felipe:

Oh, that's I like that better than gold. Yeah. It's a

Jesse:

little shinier than gold. The middle

Felipe:

shank. The silver rule. Jessie is don't treat people the way that you wouldn't want to be treated. Okay. Okay. We've got that. We've got three metals,

Jesse:

so three different degrees and that's beautiful. There's there's, you know, for me to not treat people the way I don't want to be treated, that is in, that is entirely internally focused. So it, it calls for some reflection to understand, okay, what is it I don't appreciate and make sure that I don't do that to people. Yeah. The second one, the golden rule treat people the way you would want to be treated is okay. Reflection. I understand what I appreciate and let me model that and the way I treat others. And so it takes a little bit more energy. It's like silver rule is refrain. Gold is proactive. And then when we get to platinum, it's again, a there's another degree of complexity in. I have to understand what it is. You like Felipe I have to understand what it is you value in order to treat you the way you want to be treated. And I would say if you got silver in your pocket, hell yes, you got gold. Hell yes. You got platinum. Hell yes. Use one of them.

Felipe:

If you've got platinum in your pocket, you're a magician because now you've got high emotional intelligence.

Jesse:

On page 71. Now, now there's this constraint,

Felipe:

right? Hold on, Jesse. I just love it. Like you you call out these pages and I'm always there, right? Oh, it's like we get to the same page as, at the same time. And it just mind-meld.

Jesse:

I think it's just evidence or maybe an indicator to people out there. You better, like, if you want to come hang out with us, watch out because it's a little scary sometimes, and we

Felipe:

didn't read this at the same time. Like we read this separately, we came in and we don't talk about this until we get on camera. When we get that, when that red light comes on. That's when we talk about the book

Jesse:

gold tie baby. Oh yeah. I love it. So go in yeah, I was reading out page 71, this, the, the constraint logs coming together, you know, EV people, more people are starting to contribute to it. It's getting more defined. And it, it reminded me of, of a tactic. I learned from a superintendent in Kansas city. And this superintendent super dedicated, right? He's working 16 hours a day. Just how to he and his wife just had a new baby and he is stressed to the limit. And, and so we're talking, I'm like, dude, so what, like, you're killing it. You're doing great, but you don't look like you're having fun. And so he started venting to me and he was a very forward-thinking individual. And so as we were discussing it, we happened to be standing at the constraint board that they used on the job site. And his main problem that was, was the time bandits you ever have to deal with the time bandits.

Felipe:

I haven't had to deal with time

Jesse:

bands. Oh man. Those time bandits. So his time bandits were when every time he left the office to go to the job site to do something the trailer. When I say office, I mean trailer, the time bandits would attack him, meaning the trade foreman would come up to them and they, they had an issue. They had a question they had, they needed him. And what, what would have taken him 30 minutes turns into four hours because all these people are attacking them with their issues. And we're talking through that and he's looks at, he's like, now I know he's not looking at me and he's looking at the constraint log. He's like, you know what? I need to put something like this out on the job site. And I said, oh, the constraint board, like, I hope you make it. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. Not, not like something like this. It's okay. Tell me what you're thinking. So he goes and get some plotter paper and just pulls out some blank stuff. Marker. Writes on it, you know? And he says problem name. Yeah. And that was it. And I said, okay, what do you like, I'm digging this. What are you doing? He said, I'm going to put this out right there. Right. Where everybody walks in the damn building. And I'm going to tell the foreman from now on. You need to write your problem down and your name next to it. Don't come bug me. Write it down and put your name on it. My commitment to you is at the end of the day, I'm going to go to that board and I'll do whatever I can to better understand the problem in this way. Tomorrow I can give you your answer or give you some direction. And I was like, oh my God, that I really want to study this. So come back about a month later. And by the way, you know, I may lose some fans over this Kansas city and just see, and he's got the best damn barbecue period. Like without a doubt, Kansas, city's got that barbecue baby, that side note. Hm. So it came back a month later. I'm like, dude, like, how's it been? He says, well, you know, the first two weeks, it, it didn't go to us. Oh man. Like they didn't want to write their problems. He's like, it wasn't that it's because I kept accepting their them stealing my time. Like it was, I had to change my behavior to like, he struggled with that. And he's like, man, I had to say Nope, time out, put it on the board. Finally, he got to being able to put it on the board. And what he discovered was the actual problems that people really needed help with was way smaller. And the fact that he put a mechanism in place to give people an outlet, to seek help cut five hours out of his day, every single day. What do you think about

Felipe:

that? I think I love that, man, that that is something precious and it doesn't even bother me that it took them a month because you're changing a habit. And that's a simple little change in a simple habit. Change takes about 28 days. So I'm not surprised that he had that struggle back and forth for over four weeks. That's roughly a month and look at the payback on that five hours a day. Now you can enjoy it. Get that Kansas city barbecue, go a little further away for lunch and then come back. And you're still good, for the trade partners listening. Every trade partner, listening to this that hears that a general contractor can return them solutions or help in a day cycle. That is best in class. Most of what we deal with is weeks, two weeks or longer, if we could be returning information and direction back on a daily cycle, I would imagine that that job schedule is probably pulling up.

Jesse:

Oh yes. They, they, they started getting the flow baby

Felipe:

bed. The other thing I wanted to call out we're on that page and the constraint board people checking out, this is a simple constraint board on a whiteboard. It's just got the, what is the issue or is Jessie's friend called it the problem? Cause that's what they are, their problems they added. Where is it to give it some context? And then Kate gives a Sam the brilliant addition of who owns it. So it, so he doesn't feel all the weight of the world. I mean, ultimately the team owns it, but somebody owns it a little more than somebody else. I think the other thing that's a little bit nuanced here. It's it's Tuesday. He got his good sleep. He's at work, but he's still he's eating breakfast at work. And I think super subtle on that one is that in our business, we work so long that we eat breakfast and lunch and sometimes dinner at work. I just wanted to call that out for all the people. Like that's little subtlety, the other people that work for a living don't eat breakfast at work, baby breakfast at home. And I'm not saying that cause I'm anti eating breakfast at work. I'm just saying that because that's how much work we do. Yep. Yep.

Jesse:

Well, and that's how much disruption is in our area. Right. That's how much waste there is for us to attack. So I like 72. Our architect is, is Ms. Kate. She's explaining to Sam, Hey, sorry, we got disconnected. The call drop all the way up until this point. Sam is thinking she hung up on him. Yeah. And so that just screamed out at me, check your assumptions. Right? Assumptions can govern your life. He stayed hooked on that idea that she hung up on him. That relationship had zero chance. But again, he, he has a mentor. Sam's got Alan in his life and Sam was, Alan was like, bro, you need to go, you need to go make that. Right. So he was able to harness that assumption, hold it back. And she comes in and she's like, Hey, I'm sorry. You know, Call dropped. She arranged things in such a way that she was able to get out there the next day. And now they're better suited for developing a fruitful meaningful relationship.

Felipe:

Well, that's the call where he's screaming at her on the phone. Yup. Yup. And so that's like back in time, you know, when he was like laying it into her, how bad her design was, even though he didn't even tell her what any specific thing was, he just was venting and just went off on her. It's not until like pages and pages later when she comes and face to face, she reaches out her hand first to shake his hand and he's feeling all super guilty of all the way on page 77. I jumped over a couple of the examples and she's telling him, you know, he's getting the apology out in a roundabout way, which I thought was painted real and she accepts it so they can move on. Cause she knows this project ain't going anywhere. And you got to still work together to get it done. It's important to her. And she tells him why this job is important to her. And he didn't even realize that he didn't even think about that.

Jesse:

He did. Did not consider her perspective.

Felipe:

Nope. It definitely had no platinum in his

Jesse:

pocket. Not yet, but I think he's going to start getting some, he's learning how to mine, that platinum you know, at 78 now she adds the date. Right? Dubai. When do we need it? Kate adds that element to this constraint board, which is powerful. And in reading it, I got, I, I got a little panic. Right? I got the scaries in my stomach. Like, Ooh, I'm getting nervous. I'm nervous. Yeah. Why am I getting so damn nervous? Because now we're talking about commitment. Ooh, let's get this word. Right. We have an action. We have owners. And it's time bound. That is a commitment. If I can put my name up there and I know what I need to do, and I've committed to a date, whoever facilitated that has secured a commitment and it reminds me of commitment language, and adjusting the way we think and the way we interact with one another, you've probably dealt with this. You get to work with a bunch of leaders that are frustrated with their people because they haven't delivered or fulfilled the expert. Yes. And more often than not. It's I find that it's a product of the leader, not getting clear on what the action was or what the deliverable is not getting clear on who exactly the owner is. And even if they did those two things, it's almost never time bound. If you don't have those three elements, you don't have a commitment. Nope. And we, so we contribute the point is we contribute to our own frustration when we fail to secure commitments. I'm jumping to page 80 last page of the chapter. Yeah. That's where I was,

Felipe:

you know,

Jesse:

Felipe you

Felipe:

complete me.

Jesse:

It's scary.

Felipe:

I got something for you.

Jesse:

The only note I made on page 80 was remove constraints, I mean, now we've the, the Joe and Keyan introduced this tool, this mechanism that everybody can go and put into place. And it's highly designed to remove constraints. And you had touched on it in one of our previous episodes, Felipe that how do you get buy-in remove constraints, make work, ready to be put in place and people will jump on that system.

Felipe:

Absolutely. You said it earlier today, too. In this episode, you said the best thing you can do for the trade partners is let them work. Let them do the work. Whoa, what a novel concept. Let them do the work. When people are complaining to you about the work, they're not complaints, people stop taking it like complaints. They can't do what they need to do if you're the leader even if you're not the leader, but you have some influence step up and enable the work to happen. Yeah, I like that. Make it ready.

Jesse:

Okay. And for trade partners. And I say this because I used to do this, I would withhold the problem and the constraint because I, I was hoping and wishing that it was going to get better or just kind of go away. And that was a misstep. I've learned that surfacing problems early is a good thing, right? Problems don't get better with age. Nope. Bring them to the table so that you can acquire the resources to free them up. So trade partners, it's going to be uncomfortable, but problems early as problems. Good.

Felipe:

Exactly. And just start thinking about problems on the project, our project problems. They're not just you problems. They're not the GC problems. They're not the architect problems. If you want to blame somebody, just blame them. Because those are the ones that created the circus that you're at. Once you do that, that everybody can work or together, including the owner, including

Jesse:

the element.

Felipe:

Oh man. So listeners out there, Jesse, and I love your feedback. Tell us what you like and the comments and what resonated with you. Like Jessie's platinum rule. Let's, let's start a hashtag platinum hashtag hashtag platinum. Let's make it a thing. Give us some comments, drop us some love. Like, what did you like? What'd you not like, what do you want more of, you know, like, I want more of the Jesse sayings. If you're going to jump on my bandwagon, ask for more of the Jesse isms, let's get that. Let's make that a thing to throw us a, like, we appreciate you listening to our show and taking the time out of your day to engage with us. And I am a hundred percent open to you sending me messages via comments. I will respond to all those kinds. And direct message me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to get into deeper conversation on these topics as well. How about you, Jesse?

Jesse:

No, I, I, you you've covered it beautifully. I think, I think there's a question that we should ponderFelipe and based on customer value, if, if for all our family out there if you'd like some more Felipe and Jesse, maybe we start a hashtag, you complete me. Yeah. get in touch with me. LinkedIn is my favorite. I want to interact with you. It's a, it's an awesome opportunity that you've given us your time to listen to our stuff. And, and really I'd love to be able to hug you and shake your hand because I deeply appreciate it. And given the current situation. The digital way is probably the safest and most efficient way to do that. And I'd love to talk to you. Like I need friends, please be my friend.

Felipe:

Yeah. Hashtag you complete us. Oh

Jesse:

yeah. I like it. Yeah. So that was the call to action. Hit us up on LinkedIn, hit us up on the social media stuff. We appreciate it because I really love when y'all hit me up on social media and give us some feedback because I can give you a shout out, give you some love, put it back out into the world. We are approaching 2,500 downloads and that is pretty darn significant to me. And it there's just absolutely no way that we could have gotten here without you. I'm a little sad that Renee is still working all that overtime, soak it up. Then big bucks, it's doing the right thing. He's a good debt. but we are going to have 2,500 downloads. We're we're a couple ticks away, man, from getting that. And it's a direct result of y'all y'all have supported us immensely and appreciate it, man, because. Because, you know, I just feel a little loved every time I see you download. And we got a shout out for miss Ilana who is super awesome because I know her like personally in real life in Lana sent this feedback. She says such a gem of an episode job. Well done my friend. I don't know anything about construction, but still so engaged. Now this feedback, obviously wasn't on this episode, it was on a previous episode and coming from an individual that is not in the construction industry and the fact that she was still able to get something out. Is is extremely meaningful, like that exceeds any dream that I ever had. So Lana, I love you sister. Thank you for the feedback to the rest of y'all hit us up. Drop us a message. D him hitting me in the deer. I won't tell anybody I promise. And we'll talk to you next time. Man you are one dedicated listener, sticking with us all the way through to the very, very end. Please know that this podcast dies without you, and we invite you to share how the episodes is impacting you along with your thoughts, questions, and suggestions. You've been gracious with your time. So we added social media links in the show notes to make it super easy for you to connect with us because to yourself, stay cool. And we'll talk at you next time.