Learnings and Missteps The Podcast

Calabo - Session #7 PPC

September 01, 2021 Jesse, Rene and Ernest Season 2
Learnings and Missteps The Podcast
Calabo - Session #7 PPC
Show Notes Transcript

Felipe and I wrap up our whining and war stories around Chapter 7 of The Last Planner, which is around the charged subject of PPC. Those 3 letters stand for Percent Plan Complete and have been the subject of much confusion and discontent. Which of course spills out the entire episode. And there is some good stuff too we give away the best method for incentivizing PPC, the secret ingredient of Culture and how that impacts PPC. Lastly I explicitly share about the purpose of PPC and how to close the loop.


Connect with us at: https://www.learningsandmissteps.com/

Connect with Felip at: https://www.theebfcshow.com/

Connect with The Lean Builder at: https://theleanbuilder.com/


Felipe:

You got to say something about that, Jesse. Cause you, you struck first and got the post out there.

jesse:

We, we got it rolling. When you and I have been working on this project for a couple of few months now it feels like half a year. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like we could, we could spend two years on it. But you gave, you gave me the permission to go first because you and I were trying to coordinate, who's going to release when and, and then he's like, dude, just go ahead and release it when you're ready. I was like, okay, let's do that. Launched it on the learnings and missteps pod. Ask Joe for permission, right? Like, Hey man, we're doing it. This thing about your book, are you okay with it? Super cool.

Felipe:

We recorded seven episodes. Are you cool with us? yup. That'sFelipe i, again, going at it this time, your own collabo session, number seven. Which of course means there's six previous collabo sessions and this, this wraps up the lean builder and this conversation touches on PPC percent plan complete. And for all my people out there that know me that have been around me, preaching, screaming, yelling, hollering about PPC. You already know what's going to be common for the rest of the L and M family. The first timers. Yeah, I get a little bit passionate about it. You know, there's, there's been some ideas out there around incentivizing PPC, and I've been able to witness how that, uh, corrupts the people's behavior. now I've also been able to experience the restorative effects of the last planner system on people's lives. Felipe . And I dive into that. It's a little mysterious and fancy, but it's, it's real. And then we talk about some Jed I magic. the force must be strong with those of us that are practicing the last planner system. What a remind y'all that we do have a Patreon account and the purpose of the Patreon account is to help us remain commercial-free except for me and my commercials, We really appreciate all the support that y'all have given us and in maintaining our standard learnings and missteps episodes, where we're interviewing, construction professionals, in their journey through a career in the construction industry. You know, we drop a little hint of a future collabl session, and I'm gonna tell you right now, it is in the oven. And my co-host on that collaborative session is not going to be Felipe We're going to bring the smiles. We're going to bring the energy. And this is going to be some thought provoking stuff on. How does lean apply outside of the workspace? Is it even applicable? In the personal relationship space. keep your eye out for that. I know you're ready. You're ready for it. So here comes the good stuff. Boom.

. Felipe:

I got to say, Jesse, I am in awe of your tick tock game. I am serious, man. You you're just like, just do it. Like no excuses. Just make it happen. Like it's consistent. It's on point. Like when you did the one with Kiana comment, I love that, man. You inspired me. I, I did a, tick talk last night. Just to keep pace with you.

jesse:

Well, thank you, man. That that's that is encouraging I am no longer embarrassed of my Tik TOK game, so thank you.

Felipe:

Never be embarrassed. Your takeTikTok Jessie. And you know, you saw Jason and he's in, he's in a public restaurant and he's about to record a podcast on earbuds and just to webcam and it's going to be fine.

jesse:

One thing that may be, I know I need to drive home for the audience because we, I think in our knowledge and the years of experience, we kind of forget the beginner level we're talking. And so the context, like it's all about experimentation, right? But the main, contributor to getting to that point of experimentation for continuous improvement is this need to be perfect. So people get caught up in designing the perfect experiment and then they never do a damn thing. Yeah. Just do something start where you're at. Use what you got start right now.

Felipe:

I was having a conversation earlier today, Jesse, and they were comparing themselves to two people. And they were saying like, as compared to so-and-so I can't even start this. And I was like, what? Why can't you start it? I was like, you need to start it. And when you start it, it's not going to be that good. And that's okay. As give yourself some permission, some leeway to grow.

jesse:

You listened to episode zero and you will see, you will see. I gave myself all kinds of permission to grow episode zero of our other podcast. It's it's rough, man. The audio is horrible. But hell right. I got to let it hang up

Felipe:

confirmed, but Jesse, the storytelling and what was discussed in episode zero is what makes people hold on and listen to the whole. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, my first episode, I mean, it's like, I, I watched it and I say on myself, not Josh. Josh was awesome on my show, on my show. Like he was perfect and it was good. The people coming back and why there was a show too, was because of the content content, reign, Supreme Today, ladies and gentlemen, if you're joining us, we're covering chapter seven from the lean builder. I got to say, Jesse, for all the people listening are going to stick with us through the whole thing. Shout out to Joe and Keyan . Supporting us on LinkedIn and encouraging this endeavor. I mean, that was just lovely. You got to say something about that, Jesse. Cause you, you struck first and got the post out there.

jesse:

We, we got it rolling. When you and I have been working on this project for a couple of few months now it feels like half a year. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like we could, we could spend two years on it. But you gave, you gave me the permission to go first because you and I were trying to coordinate, who's going to release when and, and then he's like, dude, just go ahead and release it when you're ready. I was like, okay, let's do that. Launched it on the learnings and missteps pod. Ask Joe for permission, right? Like, Hey man, we're doing it. This thing about your book, are you okay with it? Super cool.

Felipe:

We recorded seven episodes. Are you cool with us?

jesse:

Exactly. We should talk to them. And men like the response from, from Kion first and then Jo, like they appreciated it. It was, it was clear that they, they listened. Like they took it all in. And, and then they posted on their stuff, right? Their personal accounts and on the lean builder account, like for me, that is pretty damn monumental. It goes to show when, when we're all working towards a shared goal, the value that you can add. Is, you just have no idea what it is until you go out there and just try it, just experiment it. And, and people that that are like-minded will, will appreciate it. And so that was a big, that was a big hurdle for me to see them receive it and then share right. Projected out to their network. Right. Hey, check out the learnings and missteps podcast and check out this, their, their review of the thing about all the food, right? For this comments about there's so much damn food in chapter one, and it's very meaningful. It was me, it was moving and very meaningful.

Felipe:

That was really, it was really lovely. And people, Jesse organized a call with Joe and Joel was like, do you guys, would it be cool if I come on the last chapter and like, join you? And we were like, yes, that's going to be awesome.

jesse:

And he's, he's threatening to bring Keyan so we'll see.

Felipe:

Yeah. I got my fingers crossed for her, for Keon to show up. That'd be fun. Oh yeah. I've been at a couple of webinars with the two of them. There, there are bundles, two of them together. We're still sitting where we are today in time. Ladies and gentlemen, we have not recorded set episode yet with Joe and Keyan . We're just going to start saying the Joe and Keon show, but the one that closes it down, the final episode chapter, it'll be chapter eight. When we bring Joe and Keyan in, I can't believe Jesse, I'm getting so sad that it's actually going to come to an end.

jesse:

Well, you know, I have an idea depending on the the feedback from our, for the people we are serving. I have an idea for a follow-up. I like this. I've got to get permission, but a very close friend, very dear friend to me. Had wrote the it's titled lean love. Okay. And it's it's just five little sheets and it's five S four relationships, personal relationships. So I got to get her permission first, but man, let me tell you, it is the serious content. So I'd like to propose that as, as a follow on to this, you know, schedules, permitting, permission, permitting, and, and again, our client, like are, are the people out there? We may have another round of this stuff, but we need to know from you, if you want another round of it

Felipe:

I mean, we could do it just for Joe and Keon or their entertainment cause they were royally entertained. Absolutely. Check out my YouTube channel. I did a video on there. Two reactions to Jessie's post on LinkedIn. So it's beautiful.

jesse:

Nice. I will check it out. I haven't checked that out. Yeah. It's

Felipe:

going to go on YouTube soon, but it's on Tik TOK right now. I'll get it on YouTube and I'll put it

jesse:

on LinkedIn. I saw it on Tik TOK. I saw that one. I got the preview because I I'm I'm on the in-crowd

Felipe:

cool that, so chapter seven, ladies and gentlemen is the. What are the most controversial chapters of the entire part of critical path method scheduling and last planner hate or vice versa, depending on where you're sitting in a conference room, what side of the table you're on? It could just be all eight all around, but PPC, the most missed acronym, probably misspoken, even more than the EFC show is stands for percent plan complete. If you watched my eyes on the replay of the video, even I had to put my eyes on paper to make sure I didn't reverse the order of the words, because some people even say percent promises complete. You've heard that. Right. I have heard that. What do you say, Jesse?

jesse:

You know, here's what I say. I say whatever arrangement of the damn words helps the person I'm serving. Use it to their benefit. I'm going to let them use it. And once they start experiencing value from it, then we'll make the correction to the appropriate definition. How's that

Felipe:

two swigs I drank to that, man.

jesse:

I liked that caught up on percent plan, plan percent prominent, like call it what you need to call it, man. I just want to help you figure out how to make your day easier by using it. And then we'll, we'll come back and do some housekeeping. But again, that's my style,Felipe quick and dirty baby. Let's get this ball roll quick

Felipe:

and dirty. Let's go, man, jump me in. Where are we going to the book?

jesse:

Ah, so first page, the first time I read this, I was like, all right, now we're getting to like real construction, it says morning sunshine, Alan, greeted Sam, as he opened the door and it says ready to thump these stripers today. But the first, when I first read it, I read

Felipe:

strippers and I'm like,

jesse:

hold up, like, oh no, they're going fishy. That's awesome. I just, I just thought we were going to go down like my pat Indian

Felipe:

people. I thought you were about to say that you are going to go down a pole.

jesse:

Yes, yes. Get the pole out, baby. You got to make some money.

Felipe:

All right. Goodness. Where people Jesse and I have been awake for a long time today.

jesse:

She is like

Felipe:

up here. It's going to be, that's going to be loose this whole show. I had to look it up too. I was like, I'm sure it's some kind of thing. Yes, thank goodness. Then you turn the page and it's a picture of them in the car. And I was like, okay. You know, when you're just looking at here in chapter seven is we're almost to the end of the book, the illustrator is drawing them younger. You're looking at all the pictures. They're just getting younger as time goes on.

jesse:

You know what it is, it's the restorative benefits of practicing the last planner that their stress has dissipated so much that their youth is coming back to their face.

Felipe:

Oh, I like that, Jesse. I was like, like my hair look, the more last planner I do, the black or my hair can become. And the more I can grow back in and not be so contracted. Because

jesse:

they're sleeping more, they're eating better. They're spending time with their loved ones. Like their life is becoming a more stable life. The whole thing. That's why that's exactly what that picture is intended to communicate. I love that. That's

Felipe:

what they meant. But reading along with us, as we, as we go, we're on page 1 46 in the book, powerful illustrator here in the lean builder, keeping it real. Thank you for that. Yeah, Jesse. You're totally right, man. They're they're not drinking as much coffee still drinking the coffee, but not as much. Of course they're talking, they're laughing. This is like one of the first times of the book that I think that they're laughing together, which is a beautiful

jesse:

thing. If they're on their way to go fishing, like come on. What more could you ask for? So I jumped right through that. You know, those first few pages and ended up on page 1 48 where Alan's talking about , the first statement on the first full paragraph, the craftsmen. Aren't what they once were either. And yeah,

Felipe:

we got pause on that one.

jesse:

Oh man.

Felipe:

Yeah. I mean, this is like a repeated conversation. I shut somebody down the other day talking and clinic clubhouse because they made almost this exact same comment. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. Looking at the people in the room who are here right now, there isn't a trades person in the room to defend themselves from this accusation. And I was like, I, I just, I don't feel comfortable with you making that statement. And the person who was making the statement was the general contractor. And I said, could it be. Mr general contractor that on your site where you're having this bad experience, you're not setting up the teams for success, but go ahead Jesse,

jesse:

that's part of the point. Here's the thing, the human human nature, like the human side of me is it's very easy for me to blame the general contractor that they didn't set the project up for success. The reality is we all play into it. Right? We got this big old poopoo sandwich. Yeah. We all need to take our bite out of it. Now the, the, but the comment of, you know, they don't make them, like they used to, I feel like that conversation has been happening for centuries. Right? You can take that to generational conversation, right. This generation is through fruit and there's. We find any excuse to deflect ownership. Now this one's specifically talking about, you know, the traits they're just not the same and the quality and the care and the pride and all this stuff. I don't buy it. I can't buy it because I can have the same argument superintendents and project managers and engineers, or way better back in the day. So we're referencing this point of time that we never really experienced. And if we did experience it, when we were living it, our knowledge base was much less our wherewithal and self-awareness was under developed. So the, your, your point of reference is an immature point of reference. So how do you validate the accuracy and say, They were better. Things were better. Plans were better of in a time that you did not experience and maybe you can. And is it even worth validating? How about we just focus all our energy and change the situation that we're living right now. What are you going to do to make it better? Take some ownership and stop deflecting and blaming it on the trades. And there's a lot of conversation within our industry about appreciation for the professionals that our, in our industry, the, the men and women that do the actual value creation, the, the tradesmen, the trades women, the craft workers out there. I think generally in our industry, we'll all say that we like it's inappropriate. We need to appreciate them better. And then the next day in the meeting, The same people are going to say, well, the trades just ain't like what they used to be. So it was that, come on, make up your mind, which team are you on? And that's the whole purpose for our podcast, right? To change the image of careers in the trades because we all need, we all need a little dose of honesty and, and I'm happy to bring it.

Felipe:

And when Jesse says trades, I'll add in and the entire supply chain, because that's, we're in the same thing too. Like you're, you're are you have a special focus on the trades and your audience definitely resonates in that direction. And I want to go bigger. Let's reach up and down. I want to have those people, Jessie be consistent. Let's let's recognize that nostalgia is always going to be looked at with like some endearment because people, your memory fades over time too. You forget that in the moment I look back Jesse, on a job where we got sued, six ways from Sunday. Well, and I look at, I look at it with nostalgia and I was even telling somebody the other day was like, if you'd never been on a hard bid and been sued, you haven't lived yet in construction. And I said it with a straight face and they're like, man, you are just twisted. I said, no, like now it's been enough time has passed that all the, the, the, the grind of the moment. I can't remember that anymore. I just can't remember. And it just seems like, well, what a great project we were. So that team was so close together, those that survived and then get fired or, or quit the strong that made it, or just the people that like the abuse. But that is that idea of nostalgia is like such a human thing and like you're saying, Jesse, we don't have a way to measure engage. Like, is it better if I look at older building. You know, some buildings stand the test of time and some don't, it's a total mix. I mean, every, you can't say that like 50 years ago it was better that there are buildings that didn't survive 50 years ago right now that didn't make it right. We had an earthquake in the Midwest when I was in high school that had never had an earthquake before ever an entire town was ruined was it better? I mean, people, they should have known that there was going to be an earthquake there, that they were on a fault line. How did they not know? It's not always better in the past people got it. And I love history too. So get some this Dahlia freaks.

jesse:

Yeah, you're right. It's easy to filter out all the pain when we look back then I'll just leave it at that.

Felipe:

But I think, I think one thing to say. You know, whether you're you're listening and you're in the union trade or you're in a non-union trade open shop trade either way. You're going to have some type of apprenticeship and learning on the job. And, you know, even as true for project managers and people going on the management side, you're going to have some on the job learning as well. And depending on your attitude towards learning, you could end up becoming very good and proficient and become a subject matter expert. Or just to be, you know, a full on a master crafts person with all of the skills and creativity and talent. Or you can just be somebody that's doing a job and you're just going to get by. So Jessie and I, we tend to, we tend to be a little further away from the, just get by. I mean, hence us waking up at zero dark 30 to, to be with y'all. Cause, cause we love y'all and we'd love the comments you give us. Just keep that in mind. No, no trade bashing.

jesse:

You got it. No trade bashing. And also my commitment is to minimize my GC bashing except I'm method acting while we're, while we're doing this, this book. It's I'll pretend I don't really.

Felipe:

Yeah. I mean, your last time I checked your paycheck is a GC paycheck. Yeah.

jesse:

Yeah. You're yeah. So I'm officially on the GC side. I mean, we're all human beings. When we, when we learn how to celebrate that the industry will change. I feel like we're headed in that direction. We've got a lot of amazing people, put a lot of energy towards making that happen case in point, Ms. Jennifer Lacy, talk about a world changer. She she's got to go in on

Felipe:

we'll get there. You have to change her nickname to smiley and it's not just because I'm seeing the big giant smile over your shoulder. For those of you watching the video, Jesse's got a big goal. Jesse loves you. And a smile over his shoulder. So check out the videos. Awesome.

jesse:

It is awesome. On the next page page 1 49, it, it, as I read through it, it triggered this question. So here's a question for you for liquid when you're coaching individuals or teams, what is your comfort level? I guess it's two phase question. What is your comfort level with going to storytelling a and then B how do you ensure that it would, it's going to be received by the audience?

Felipe:

That's a great question, Jesse. So as, as default, I don't go storytelling or straight to the end. As a default, like I, and I only can say this ladies and gentlemen, because I have done it the wrong way. So many times there were, there was a, a slew of times, Jesse, where I never told a story and I would, I even had checklists and I would give people, there was one time Jesse. And this happened a couple of years ago and bless his heart for Nate. I like went on after for him, for not having read this checklist that I had provided him like 25 times. And I just kept like every other sentence I was like, and this thing is here as you'll notice in the checklist, three inches from the left margin, Nate and I just was like, and then I'd say a couple more things. And I'd say, as you have seen, if you flip over the checklist to the second page, Nate, that question you have is right there at the top of the page too. And I just went on and we laughed about it afterwards, but I mean, that was the total. Non respect for people move on my part. And so that was wrong. That's too extreme. And on the other extreme edge, somebody asked me yesterday, how I got into doing what I do now. And I went all the way back to high school and told the story. And then the person interrupted me when I was only at college. And then they're like, I got an hour. They're like fleet pay, but you're like over 40. I mean, I ain't got time to hear how you got to. Yeah. So then, so that, that was just yesterday, Jesse. So I went to the extreme other side. I got to somewhere balanced when it's, when it's been done. Right. When I'm coaching in a coaching session, if we're in it, like if we're in the throws of something, like if we're doing a job walk and we're trying to find flow, I may stop and tell a story that helps to bring a point to life. But I won't start with the story. Now, if we're in a classroom setting, I will intentionally have some stories to give people an example. Only for this reason, Jesse, I need them to be able to see themselves in it saw to, I was talking to a person in your neck of the woods yesterday in Tejas and they were all the way from Houston, and they're actually not originally from Houston, they're from west Texas. But for this story, they're from Houston. They're Houston because he's Stony and sounds cooler than the west Texan. I don't know. Just, I mean, right. You technically west, Texas, south, Texas, baby, south, Texas. All right. Now I know San Antonio, south, Texas double asset. So this particular person had asked me a question about what it's, what's it going to be like to have you come in and facilitate a meeting? So for that question in this coaching conversation, I had to give a story and I just gave a short story. Relating to the project that, that I knew they had some experience with. And I used real people's names. And it's a real story. I told a real story short, like within two minutes. And that was just to set a little bit of background. And then I, I made sure that as I was ending my little two minutes, spiel, I S I asked a question, how do you see starting? What do you think is the first thing we should do? And then other questions like that. And I just noticed that my name is behind your head and which is freaking awesome. I like how pay is just like right above your hair and just caught. That is

jesse:

what I'm aspiring. Right.

Felipe:

Well, I don't know why I'm at the bottom of the list. Ladies and gentlemen, there are people above me. And then Jesse, you know, and that's the perfect thing. I'll mix in some humor in all of my stories now. And I find that when I do that, I'm being more natural. Like yeah, I know something, but I want to make sure I'm connecting with them. So I'll pause. I'll wait. And I'm, I don't push the checklist as hard anymore. Oh, how about you?

jesse:

It's pretty similar to you and to say it maybe in such a way that somebody can take, take it and apply it in their coach. As I think of it in terms of a sliding scale. Okay. Right on, on the far right hand side, it it's, oh, it's coaching. Right. I'm asking questions to help the individual examine their thinking. I'm asking questions to help them. discover the answer or the solution or the counter measure, whatever we want to call it. It's on the far, right on the far left of the scale, based on the individual's understanding and capabilities, I may tell them what to do. I may have to give them the checklist and say do it this way in this order, because th th their knowledge basis is thin. Right. And in between there there's space for some storytelling. And usually I'll introduce the storytelling by asking permission. And I think Alan did that in this case, right? Like, can I tell you a story real quick and I'll ask, is it okay if I give you a story? Because I've discovered that some people, they don't want a story, they just want the facts. Right. Okay, great. And some people are like, stop with the damn facts, man. Can you put it in context for what it means to me? Okay. I could do that. But, and to your point earlier, when I started doing this kind of coaching culture, change, change management work, I had the checklist too, and this is what you need to do, and this is how you're supposed to do it. And this is what you failed to do. Like I did so little listening. It was horrible. And then, and then when I discovered like this humble inquiry methodology, then that's all I did was ask these open-ended questions. And some people, I mean, I had one guy. He told me, Jesse, could you cut the Jed? I bullshit. And just tell me what to do. I was like, oh, cause sometimes people, I mean, you know, the open-ended questions, it's challenging. It's brain twisting and sometimes they're just not there yet. And that's okay. Back off and I'll say, well, from my perspective, it feels like there's a few options here. Here are the options. I think you're saying, what do you think? And then that helps kind of get them closer to making their decision. And again, I keep going back further and further based on where they're at and how much bandwidth they have to think about things. And if they just don't have the experience and the knowledge base, I just tell them what to do. Here's what you should do. And then let's circle back. It's like teaching a kid to tie their shoes. You don't ask them open-ended questions until they figure out how to tie their shoes. You'll never get there.

Felipe:

You do

jesse:

turn. Yes, you do it for them. And then after you do it for them, you do it with them. And then after you do it with them, they do it under your supervision. And after that you let them roll And so that's, that's for that sums up my coaching style today. I'm pretty sure it'll evolve. I hope it will. But that, that's how I approach it. I

Felipe:

like that that shoe tie analogy is very good. Yeah. In the book Alan did, he did ask Sam's permission to tell him a story. He told one of my most favorite stories of all time, a hundred percent stolen from Stephen Covey, Joe and Keyan . I'm watching habits. Seven habits of highly effective people, habit, number seven, Jesse, you know, you know what it is,

jesse:

sharpen the saw. That's right. Yep. And I wonder, I, you know what, I don't wonder, cause these guys are just forward-thinking Joe and Keyan are they placed it? They placed the seventh habit in chapter seven.

Felipe:

I know that was like, that gets a bell. I mean all day long. That was well done. Yeah.

jesse:

I'm telling you, they just know they, the, the Jedi, Tara

Felipe:

gait, Joe, and see if it seemed Burkian,

jesse:

you can ask them that on the next chapter, like tell us exactly your thinking behind, including the seventh habit. Exactly. Where you put it. John chapter

Felipe:

seven. Let's see, does it, does it show up at the start of the page that ends at 1 47 too?

jesse:

Oh no. It's 1 52. There's the formula. They used a mathematical formula that generated 1 52 to be the ideal spot for it. Yeah. That's what the.

Felipe:

I love that, man. Speaking of formulas, are you to come back to PPC? What's the formula for PPC justice. Oh,

jesse:

PPC. It is the amount of activity planned activities completed, divided by the amount of activities planned. Did I get that back?

Felipe:

No, you got it right. Times a hundred to give you a

jesse:

percentage times. 100 gives you the percent perfect. Yeah. It's like, it's simple math. And you could just like for real man, you could just let it be that easy. But then the most, like that's one big, complicated thing that people like to play with the next enormously complicated thing. That's really not. Is, is the activity complete? Yes. Oh,

Felipe:

yeah. That's like all that type of, that's not specific just to construction being so problematic and an agile world that in scrum, in particular, this was something that was a challenge since the nineties, when they were, when Jeff was first putting this together, they even had to give it a special phrasing and scrum, they call it the definition of done set by the team. There's a whole like ethos around, like how does, how do people decide? And I've heard people say, like not, and they don't say it like in a way that it's a question. They say it in a way that it's a complaint. And it's typically somebody who's of the project manager persuasion. And they're like, you mean, you're just going to let people decide when something's done. I'm like, let people decide. I'm like, man, that just sounds so that whole, like, and we say it's binary. It's either done or it's not done. Half done is not done. 60% complete is not complete work in progress is not completed work. It's still happening. It's done. I always say Jesse, when the next person can get onto it and completed all the way done done, the only time I'll accept done done is when the owner has the keys to the building and it's theirs and we're not there, or the roadway in Texas where everything seems to be going tollway. I guess it's done when the toll transponder takes my money and I'd keep on driving and then you're

jesse:

good. I agree. And we get to see so many people spend or waste so much energy around playing with the formula and playing with the S and it's almost like

Felipe:

I got to put my foot down. I gotta, I gotta, we gotta go. We gotta touch this for a second. You just triggered me. So playing with the formula, ladies and gentlemen, listen, listen close. Here's the Jesse, can I tell a story please? Okay. Thank you. Jessie Storytime with Felipe there, there are many good intention owners out there. I love you owners that have this intention that you want to encourage this type of collaboration on your projects. However, owners, when you incentivize a certain PPC number in your contract and well-intentioned general contractors, let me put you in on this to those that have front ends or exhibits to your contracts with the trade partners. When you set a PPC rate on a team and incentivize it with goals, do not be surprised that people are going to gameplay in manipulate that form. If you're trying to incentivize collaboration, just ask for it. Just ask for it. Just say, let's go collaboratively plan and schedule. Don't put in a PPC percentage in a contract and then give people financial incentives to hit that. Jesse, I cannot tell you that I know of a single project that has that requirement, where people are not playing with that formula in appropriately. And I've even asked people, how do you calculate PPC? And I found Jessie that if their job has it in the contract, like magic, they tell me that the formula is so complicated. It's in a spreadsheet to track and versus a job DOR it's not in the contract. I can ask anybody any trade partner that's in there on a job, that's actually tracking it and they can tell me just like you told me, Effortlessly, what is the difference in that? That just people,

jesse:

people. So I have witnessed and even played that game. It wasn't, it wasn't particularly with PPC. I guess it was specifically for stuff. Right. And, and so the incentive was, if, if you had a particular percent PPC, like if you were above 75%, for all, as a superintendent, as a trade partner, if you're above 75% for X amount of man hours quarterly, you could win the productivity championship for that quarter, which was like a thousand dollar, $2,000 check. Okay. Yes. Can you guess what happened, Felipe ? Felipe: Yeah, I can guess what I didn't. I was like, I'm going to do this. And I was like, well, wait a minute. Like, this is gonna, I did it for like a week or two. I was like, wait, why am I, I got shit to do. I ain't got time to be playing around with all these numbers. I've hell with that. I'm going to go get good work done. You can go put work in. Maybe, maybe that'll be it fit us. But we had a bunch of people that started playing with the numbers and all of a sudden their production rates were like 85, 90, 95, like they were killing it. So they got their check. They got a little plaque, another quarter check plaque, and then they hit the wall. All of a sudden they were upping their purse, their percent complete it's 90.1% 90.2% 94. 3% for six weeks. So cause people just looking at this digital readout, it was manipulated by people. It was driven by the incentivization of it. They manipulated the game. And so they thought we're kicking butt, we're winning and found out, no, you're not. You spent 90% of your budget and you still have 40% of the work to go it. So it was a horrible disaster. And, and then it helped me really understand the danger of jacking around with the number. And so here's another question. Is it possible to get a hundred percent PPC and be behind schedule and have no flow? Yes. Okay, second

Felipe:

question, Jesse, you go to the head of the class. Yes, it's possible.

jesse:

Second question. Is it possible to have 0% PPC and have flow and be ahead of schedule?

Felipe:

Yes, it is Jesse now to bring it, to bring it to life for people, remember the formula Jessie gave you for those of you that didn't write it down. Cause you're not taking notes. Like Jesse told you in the show notes, chapter one, you might want to take some notes on this. If you finish ahead of schedule or you change because of conditions change, your PPC actually goes down. Let's say I'm on a five day weekly work plan. And I have just a simple 10 activities plan just for easy math. If I get halfway through that week and some psych condition changes where we have to re sequence the work, I don't, we don't finish. We might read my re sequence in a way that jumps us into the next week's work. The PPC for that week is going to be less than 50%. If I got through all the Wednesday's activities and then I don't do Thursday and Fridays activities that's possible, but we could be like to Jesse's point, we could actually be jumping out of schedule because we improve the flow. So your PPC is going to temporarily dip down because you're in a replanning on the flip side, I have a terrible phase pool, maybe a key trade for whatever reason or somebody on the GC crew, just to keep it to anybody. Doesn't have input during the phase pool or the reverse phase planning, whatever you want to talk, call it before you get to the weekly, look ahead and you get a bad sequence and you don't know that until you go to the weekly planning. Yeah. And you start working and you work for an entire week and your PPC is a hundred percent. But you did the wrong stuff. And then you come to find out that you didn't prep for this like air handler that can't fit through a single doorway through oh snap. How many times does that happen? Where we can't get equipment through openings, we had a hundred percent PPC, but now I can't install the next piece of work because of a coordination gap, because we didn't do a better phase pull plan because we didn't understand our milestones with long lean items. All of that was because of the root causes, bad flow. So bad flow can allow you to hit a hundred percent PPC, but do the wrong thing quickly. Yup. So focus on flow. People stop playing games

jesse:

and I'll add for, for the trade partners. There is tremendous value in being specific and measurable in your tasks. And so I'll give you an example of that. Just to tell

Felipe:

me the story, I'm going to tell you a story.

jesse:

So when I was on the trade partner side, I had, I got, I was the, the LPs champion, if you will, for the business unit. And so I took it very seriously and coached our people. And there's a progression kind of like the shoe tine story or scenario. When, when I introduced tradesmen to the weekly work plan, they'll usually what I get in the car activity is installed. Duct installed pipe. And so of course, they're going to hit a hundred percent PPC. Cause all you really have to do is install. One piece of duct you've achieved the goal

Felipe:

that's right

jesse:

now specific and measurable is different because specific is I'm going to install the medium pressure duck on quad, a second floor measurable. I am going to install 680 feet of that. And so now I can measure. Did I achieve the target and it it's, it, it serves you better, but in terms of problem-solving right, we're going to get to that. But PPC is, is not, you're not finished. If all you did was do the number. All you did was divide. You are not done the next piece, which, which our boy homeboy Adam hoots is very passionate about. And I agree with them. He's worried about the percent incomplete because we need to do some problem solving, whatever didn't get completed as planned. We need to dive deeper into it, to understand what kept it from being finished and being specific, and measurable in the act to description of the activity enhances the problem-solving effort. So percentage. Yeah, that's, that's a little bit better than just the general statement, but where are you doing it? And how much do you intend to do is what we're talking about. We're looking for you get to that level. You got to start putting money in your pocket, baby.

Felipe:

And I think that measurement that I just heard, this is the first time I've ever heard it to Jesse. Can you believe all these years doing it? A decade of LPs and only today from Adam told me PPI Felipe I was like PPI percent plant incomplete. I was like, oh, it's just one minus the percentage that's there. That's already. I tell people, Jesse, this, like when I'm first introducing a team to PPC, I say, you can do the math to get the percentage, but it's even more powerful to show your work, show the numerator and the denominator. So then you can see from week to week, Are we getting more work in place or less. And if we get, if we use that discipline, that Jesse's just kind of jumped over, get those tags to be descriptive. There's a reason why Jesse wants that to be descriptive, but I want it also, we want to see how are you engaging with the interconnection of the next person? How's that handoff, if you just say installed duct, I have no idea how you're handing off to anyone and I will, as a facilitator grill you but don't worry. It's going to be pleasant. You're going to love being asked questions by me. Where's that duck going? What floor is it in from what room? To what room? From what grade? Blend to what grid line, how are you going to get it in the building? Who's going to be in the room after you throw all just the, some of the types of questions that I will be 20 questioning you, and you will learn very quickly to fill out your tags appropriately. And people listening, like it's chapter seven, for a reason, you don't start with PBC.

jesse:

Nailed it. You do not start with PPC, but we're driven, right? It's not a grade. You said that you said it earlier this morning. It's not a letter grade, but we are conditioned to interact with it as a letter grade. And naturally because we're competitive type a people in the industry, or maybe there's just a few.

Felipe:

No, I think it's, I think it's heavy type a super heavy, I mean right here, this phone call, look at us talking over each other. Yup. Yup. Go ahead, Jesse.

jesse:

We naturally go to where's the scoreboard what's what's the score. What am I like if we don't have a scoreboard, we don't really know. Generally speaking right in our industry. That's what we need. Are we winning? I need a schedule. Scoreboard. I need PPC, scoreboard.

Felipe:

I need a budget,

jesse:

scoreboard, , let's talk about the culture.

Felipe:

How do you measure that? Huh?

jesse:

No scoreboard for that. I don't care about the most important thing. So obviously we got to get better at coming up with some scoreboards for the culture on the project. And I think Jennifer Lacy has probably got a lead on the rest of us as to what, what metrics or what things are indicating of a fantastic culture, but I'm getting off base there.

Felipe:

No, no, you're, you're good, man. There's definitely other things to measure besides PPC. And you know, some of the things like what Jennifer's doing in her company and what mom's doing at his company, and even in my company, we're on IPD jobs, integrated project delivery, you got to measure team health. Team health is more important than your PBS. If you have to sacrifice because there's only so much time in the day, it is more important to understand. Well, how are people feeling? How are people working that is a forward predictor of how the team is going to do? Whereas PPC is a dashboard rear view mirror Westrick of what happened in the past does not predict the future. Yesterday's PPC does not tell me anything about tomorrow's PBC. Right?

jesse:

Right. And now we're talking about lead and lag indicators. Yes. PPC is a lagging indicator.

Felipe:

You could thank you, Jesse. I'm ESL. And I couldn't remember that word. Yup. Cross. Yes, Jesse. You got

jesse:

it. Right. It's leading and lagging indicators. Lead indicator team called team health. Lagging indicator, PPC. Yep. Poor team health. You know things. Ain't going to be fun. Do something about that.

Felipe:

Fix that first. Don't worry about PBC.

jesse:

No, no. Get that. Yes. We buy philosophy in coaching and supporting folks with the last planner system is if a team environment is jacked up, we ain't talking about no last planner stuff yet, get this team thing fixed first and often, maybe less often than, than maybe five years ago. But often they're kind of like, why, why are you worried about that? That's not your job. I'm like, well, you'll understand that it is absolutely my job to ensure that this health, this environment is solid before we start playing around with this other stuff. Cause we could play around with this other stuff all day long and it ain't going to help. Nobody. All that's going to do is add burden to your day. If we're not functioning as a team.

Felipe:

That's right. And we say the same thing. A scrum has a metric as well for advanced teams called velocity. And I next to nev. Introduce velocity to someone coming at it at the first time. I usually say like, when you, when you get tired or you feel like you've, you've mastered what you've put in front of you to do something to you and you raise your hand and come back to me, we'll talk about velocity in the future. Yes, I have the same thing. That's cool. How

jesse:

often do people want that velocity concept? Right out of the gate. Oh,

Felipe:

like eight out of 10 times. Because, because like what you said, Jesse, they want to measure if you've ever ladies and gentlemen, he ever watched a sports game. I myself am a Cubs fan. But as a child, as a child, I used to watch a lot of football and there's something weird happened Jessie. One time when I was a kid, I won't say how old I was. I'll just say when I was a kid, I put some money on a game. When I was gambling on the game. It was the most exciting football game I'd ever seen in my life. Oh yeah. And I was like, I remember being into football. I was thinking like, Wow. That game was like, something was like magical about that game. And it's because I won a ton of money. Thank you, Kansas city back in the day, put some pizza money in my pocket, but it's that same phenomenon. Like we get more emotionally invested. Well, we have some skin in the game. We have something riding on it. And I think a lot of the people and projects, Jesse, especially those that are looking for, how do I measure if I'm going to do something like they just want to know that they're doing it well or not. So I think that's, that's a part of it. It's not always malicious. Like it's not always that project manager that just wants to beat his team down with the stick or her team. Cause there've been some, there've been some mean female project managers as well, a hundred percent. It's not always that sometimes they just want to know how they're doing. And like Jesse said, if the people are doing well, emotionally, physically, they're in a good environment. Then you can add on these extra things, because it is doing PPC as an extra thing to do. It is,

jesse:

it is and there. And so that's a perfect segue into my problem or appreciation for the situation around PPC. Too many people want to start with it. We've discussed that, but I've seen many, many teams practicing last planner, learning how to get good at it. And they get the number and they stop at the number and they wonder what's the value of PPC and tracking the constraints and, you know, categorizing it, why would I do this? And then they go to the trades and they say, all right, this is y'all's PPC. And nothing gets better. Like it, like it doesn't get better. And you're wondering like, why it's like, well, because you haven't finished, you haven't closed the loop PPC. You're not finished now to hoot Adam hoots is his passion. Let's start looking at the incomplete items and let's dive into that. We track the reasons for variance so that we can, again, like you said earlier, there's only so many hours in the day, right? So we're going to track those things so that we can feed it into a Pareto chart so we can see visually what is kicking us in the face the most often that with the highest frequency and let's deploy some problem-solving efforts on that one, because if I can bring that one down, it's going to have the biggest impact overall. So find the, okay. PPC, look at the things that didn't get done and then do some research. Go out. Please don't slap me, go to the gemba, right? Go to where the fricking work is happening and where the breakdown exists. Don't ask people in the trailer, why didn't you get done while a gold? See for yourself, go find out what the hell the breakdown is and deploy some countermeasures against that breakdown. Guess what you do that your PPC starts going up. But if all you do is hit the stupid number and stop at the stupid number, why the hell would you do the rest of this stuff? Get to the number and then let that be a trigger to be selective about the problem you're going to go after about the things that weren't complete and do some problem solving around that. When you start doing that, you're starting to close the loop and actually build the cycle, which is a wheel, which is momentum. And then you get the flow. You get the flow.

Felipe:

Close the loop. Yeah, absolutely. And I say people like, and Jesse's example, when you get that PPC and you come share with the trades, it's a teams, PBC, not anyone, individual trade I'm sorry, software companies that can track it per trade. That is an abomination. And that doesn't mean squat because no trade is out there independent. They are all interconnected. And just because the math can come out and give you independent PPC, it doesn't mean anything. It's meaningless. It's a team's PPC. It's the project's BBC. And like Jesse said, it takes us longer to explain, well, how to go investigate it than to go investigate it. Right. I mean, Jesse, we can walk out. On a, on a team that's maybe even hitting like 70% PPC and we'll look at their variances and it might, we may see like three, three variances popping, like they might have said, and we might be dropping in and they're like, oh, this is poor planning. This trade's over-committing. And we go out there and we walk it. We know in 10 seconds, it wasn't over-committing right. It's almost never, over-committing now in the design. That's a totally different story. When we're talking about in construction knowledge work over-committing tends to happen quite a bit. So I just want to preference that. Cause it's hard to predict some of those things, those sparks of the mind, but in the, in the physical world, it's easy to see what's going on. And it's often other things like they put a list here, I'm on page 1 57 and they got some items here for variants on the PPC. The top one being wet. I think that's a no-brainer everybody understands how, why there could be an impact. So that's nothing to even worry about. The next one is manpower. Now this one, Jesse, I find a little suspect, like how often is band power showing up in the parade? And the predo is just taking, like, if, if I, if I just had weather and manpower is the only thing is affecting, and I just count how many times did we miss an activity? And that activity was due to weather. I would count one for weather. And if I attend activities and we had, you know, a snowstorm in San Antonio, like we did this year and I couldn't work for a couple of weeks, I would have like, all of these weather impacts. I don't even need a parade of it. That snowstorm was. So I know that derailed a whole bunch of projects. Boy, do people even have shovels in south Texas? I don't even think they probably, no, no,

jesse:

it was, we were not prepared for that.

Felipe:

Yeah. And then they've got machinery. Yeah. Machinery can absolutely break down and impact design that's code for all kinds of things. There could be that design needs to be unpacked a little bit. Cause that could be this coordination. It could be like not having the right submittal. I mean, there's so many things that design blanket I would, I would ask for a little more clarity on that design thing. That's too vague for me. How about you Jesse?

jesse:

I'm with you? I think design there's buckets. Right? And, and I think there's an appropriate there. We need to find the appropriate degree. Of definition, because for me, sometimes not sometimes almost all the time I get too granular, so much so that in order to gather the data, it's going to take an enormous amount of time and that's not valuable. We don't need people fricking gathering data. We need people building. And so bringing it back to what again, what is the appropriate level design? What does that mean? Is it information? Is it, was it processing of the approval? It could, there's so much stuff that we could throw in the design bucket. I'm with you a hundred percent to break that out. I mean, what I, what I've seen in my career is around like a standard set of constraints is around the 14th between 13 and 15. Count

Felipe:

Now, before you take action. What do you mean? You said the 14 or 15

jesse:

mark. Oh, no, no, no, no. So like, if the, for example, right here, we're seeing seven, the seven bullet points about what could be impacting our work. What I've seen as a standard is there's a list of a, between 13 and 15 bullet points, standard constraints or, or, or reasons for variance that impact the work and the purpose behind that was for the additional granularity for like poor scheduling or design. Come on, poor scheduling, Burl. What are we talking about? I was talking about planning. Are we talking right? What are we talking about? Let's get, let's get specific.

Felipe:

No, I've seen the same thing, like in our standard, our checklist for the last punter system, Jessie has 14 items onset checklist on page.

jesse:

On the top left hand corner.

Felipe:

It's actually on the middle. Jesse did the center eight inches from the bottom. You'll find it in this section. That's noted a variance. Yes. Poor name. Pardon? I feel, I feel you, Nate and Nate, he's read this book by the way. He loves this book. He w he said, when he read this book, he was so excited. He's a superintendent that he wanted to make this a required reading material for everybody. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How about you buy a couple and give out some gifts. Now that you're making that, that superintendent coin, you can buy a couple of books and give some to a friend.

jesse:

Yep. Plant some seeds. And I will tell you, like, I've seen that in, in my region, Denver, Kansas city, Nebraska, Texas. I've seen this book, The Lean Builder Book, catch fire. Like introduce it to somebody and they're like, oh my God, this is amazing. They make it so simple. We need to buy, we're going to do a study actually to you. And I'm like, yeah, like, awesome. It's a, my point is it's a fantastic resource. So anybody that's listening and curious my recommendation, go buy the damn book and get it on audio so that you can listen to it every day, driving back and forth to work. And you can read the book and test and make notes about your experiments because it really can be this simple. Like that is the thing I appreciate the most about this book. Is it demystifies? All the other crap, right? There's there, there's no spreadsheets in here and links and bullshit. It's just, let's go. Let's go achieve flow straight up. Let's go and put work in

Felipe:

place. I do love that it has no spreadsheets. I know I could hear Jason and Spencer. What's wrong with spreadsheets.

jesse:

Oh, there is it. There's no power BI this plan is let's talk, let's make some commitment and let's go get some damn work in place. Boom. It can be that easy. It really can't. Now there are jobs that are pretty damn complex and have very sophisticated systems and all kinds of moving parts. And then that case then I maybe would say, yeah, let's, let's introduce some technology to help manage that. But it's not always gonna make it better. I guess that's the point. If the technology doesn't serve the process and the people don't freak and you, yeah.

Felipe:

And I want to just say to people, I've seen teams that don't track PPC. I will go in. And look at their board and I'll calculate it like on a little post-it note that I just keep to myself and I'll kind of mark how they're doing over time. And so as a, if you know how to calculate PPC, you can absolutely figure it out on your own. And then I use that to go see something special, something particular. I'll go look at variances. And one of the is one of the people Jessie who's been doing this for a long time as structural engineer in California. Shout out to Bueller Bueller that has been after pull planning and design last planner system designed for over 20 years, they will, they will take the sticky note. Jesse folded up halfway and they'll write the variants right on the back of the sticky. And then, so when these stand back on their board, you'll see these half folded post-its and you'll see variants visually. See it. There's no spreadsheet, man. It's just right there in your face and they just write it right on there. That's takes a second. And one of the things that they taught me, shout out to Ron, Ron taught Philippe. Ron said, you just turn around and you say out loud what the variance is so that everybody on the team can hear it. And everybody learns, like what's getting in our way together rather than a separate exercise. So I just love that. Thank you, Ron. That's a gift. That's

jesse:

gold baby for all the listeners out there. That's gold. And so I'm going to tell another story if I may fairly best on page 1 59. I guess the first full paragraph he talks about what I've noticed from our trade partners is the squeaky wheel with the most data gets the oil. And when I read that plume, it, it took me back to a situation on a project. It was a pretty, pretty large project. And our, the GC was not doing last planner. Okay. It was just the mechanical contractor. And we recruited the electrician because MEP. We now we've got some leverage and actually we were kind of kicking each other's face and we said, oh, this hurts. Let's play nice together. And it'll be, yeah,

Felipe:

let's kick the GC. Don't kick each other.

jesse:

Right. It's figuring out how to get this damn job done. And so I was responsible for manpower and this project had way more manpower than they theoretically should have had. And so I had to go figure out, like, why is this happening? And so I started and they were doing it right. The team, our team was doing the last planner system and their PPC was about 40 to 50. Okay. And I said, okay, awesome. Like, that's kind of what I figured. What's the, what's the main contributor and it was a prerequisite tasks. I said, oh, okay. So let me make sure you're not just finger pointing. And to, like you said earlier, let me go out. I got my list of all the weekly work plan and the things that have been kicking us. Like we couldn't complete, let me go see what's going on. And about 70% of the time it was prerequisite tasks. The, the tile wasn't grouted, the countertop was, and we're in finishes, right? So kazillion loose ends all over the world. GCs pushing pressure. You need more people

Felipe:

what's that? I said, keep going, man. You're I was flashing back. Like I know that job too. Well, Jesse just said incomplete tile, complete tile. In my mind, I flashed like 25 different project, 25 different rooms, a thousand different examples as a 6,000 item punch. I'm triggered Jessie, keep going. You,

jesse:

you, you clearly were walking this job with me cause you just described it to a T all of the ceiling tiles,

Felipe:

like everything. Yeah. With six ceiling tiles, flags everywhere,

jesse:

even better kitchen equipment, mechanical room, like BAS everything loose ends everywhere. And so I came back to the team and that the purpose of this story is so that trade partners, again, even if the general contractor is not applying it, this could change your world. So I came back, talked to our project manager said, Hey, bro, like here, I see all the things that aren't complete. And this is, this is my two hour walk of constraints. Like very specific, not the general bucket, right? It is this piece of this scope of work needs to be complete to free this workup. And so I went down that list with them and he's like, yeah, I have that list. I said, oh, well let me see it, dude. He had. Okay, this is good. Like this, this is good information. What are you doing with the spreadsheet? What do you mean? Like, so you're creating it. Like you have very actionable information. You're tracking it. But what are you doing with it? Whoa. Well man, just in case we go to litigation. Why the hell? Why don't you like, let it make it a tool right now. Geez. Yeah, please. Here is the assignment. Send that constraint log to the GC so that they can unders like they are going to help us make ready. They don't know what's blocking us. Let's just give them the benefit of the doubt. And they don't know, you send them that list and they will know where to apply the pressure. He didn't do it for two weeks. Things kept getting worse. Then he got

Felipe:

to the pool, like take it away. How was that GC going to receive it? Not with a smile and an open hand,

jesse:

you know, it, you know it. So I finally said, okay, look, here's the deal. I'm cutting your manpower. I'm taking 50% of your plumbers and 60% of the sheet metal guys next week, period. I know this is going to help you because if I don't apply any pain, you're just going to keep sitting on that damn list. So he sent the list. Yes. The GC flipped. How dare you call us a constraint. This is bullshit. You're just finger-pointing emails flew, like the sky was falling down. Yeah. And I said, okay, good. So what do you mean good? I said, did you notice that they got that stuff done for us and we're actually producing? Oh yeah. I said, okay, now here you want to settle the like, I like conflict. So I would've just left it the way it was. Do you want it to be. He's like, yes, dude, like this is not fun. Like we're fighting all the time was okay. Good. You see up there on the header of that file, where it says constraint, log, delete it and type in, make ready needs and send it to him. I swear. He made that change. Totally different conversation. Same problem, different conversation. The cut in the manpower didn't hurt them. I was actually able to get more manpower off the job because now everybody knew what was ready to be executed. And because everybody knew clearly what wasn't ready to, it will be executed. The conversation about manpower was a non-conversation because we all knew exactly where we stood. So trade partners, you can do it. And so the little constraint log story I'd tell him about is very similar to the PPC. So you got the information. If you ain't doing anything with it, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Man, you got to do something, share that information so that you can change the damn situation for everybody. I love that.

Felipe:

And trade partners, you need to recognize that even though lawyers have a perception of making a lot of money, they actually charge by the hour. So just think of a lawyer as being on TNM forever and trade trade partners. That TNM lawyer is going to likely come out of your pocket because every general contractor I know Jesse, and we know at least two, they have clauses in their subcontract agreements that are going to hold you to pay some of those legal fees. So don't think that you're going to throw it over the fence and you're going to your company is going to be free and clear. You are mistaken. You're

jesse:

going to be sharing in that bad boy.

Felipe:

It's way better to share the bad news early than to not don't sit on it young. PM's out there. Take Jessie's warning, change the title of the log and get it sent over. That's beautiful.

jesse:

You like that? I love that. Ninja lean baby.

Felipe:

Make ready work.

jesse:

Yeah, make, make, make ready. Make ready.

Felipe:

Ready? We

jesse:

were friends. We were friends, goof balls. Now page 1 62, you know, we were talking about incentivizing PPC and how that's a risky or even maybe just avoid that

Felipe:

dangerous danger, danger, danger.

jesse:

Now I am going to share this nugget that I got from my, my really good friend, Sean Moran. Who's also a lean addict. Shout out to Shawn, Shawn, shout out Sean incentive program for PPC. Here. It is. It was breakfast tacos. So if the, at the end of the week, they measured PPC. And if PPC was between 60 and 70, the team got donuts. If the PPC was between 70 and 80, the team got tacos, like bean & cheese, potato & egg , and a non-meat tacos. I

Felipe:

like how you said bean and cheese. Now that we've corrected Joe, we're staying consistent, being a cheese, Joe, I could imagine counts. Like I don't make that mistake, Joe.

jesse:

That's good stuff. And then if they hit over 80%, it's meat tacos got an right. Bacon and egg, right.

Felipe:

You're gonna say if they get close to a hundred, they're going to get salads.

jesse:

Yeah. Yeah. If you hit a hundred,

Felipe:

I'm just messing with you.

jesse:

And, but the powerful thing here is they celebrated that as a team. This is our PPC. And because we all contributed to this degree, this is how we're going to celebrate. That is a proper incentive program for PPC.

Felipe:

Yes, I totally agree. I totally agree. And GC is, I mean, cause he's a GC, you've got that cash. Like it's easier. I mean, think about that. If you're, if you're hitting PPC, As I said it earlier this morning on the live stream, Jesse, I said, if your PPC is over 60% in my experience, if you've done phase planning and milestones, you've had those connected conversations through, you will see gains on your CPM schedule at north of 60% all day long. You're going to make up time in the schedule. So think about that. GCs, do the math, how much are you burning per day with your staff on your day burn rate? It's thousands of dollars and it's the same crews with high labor counts. It could be tens of thousands could be hundreds of thousands and on some jobs millions. So if you could take days off the board where work is in place, correct. Without a punch list, that's money in your pocket. Those are the, that food is like the best money you ever spent.

jesse:

Exactly. It's so inexpensive. It rather, it is a pretty damn valuable invention. Almost priceless. Some tacos, baby. I

Felipe:

wasn't with the team, Jesse. I mean, you're just jogging my memory and we did some barbacoa, nachos that was like the specialty where we were. And so where we hooked it up and they, you know, magically, they took two weeks off the schedule. I was like, I'll throw down for some barbacoa nachos. Oh dude, that's a fun expense report by the way. And you're like, oh yeah, this this meal that's for, we made up two weeks in the schedule. Nobody's going to turn that down. That takes us to the end of the story right there, Jesse we're at the end that chapter seven is behind us. We have a Joe coming on listeners, Jesse, and I would love to hear what you took away from this session in the comments. And if you've been, if you've been following along with us thus far, you already know. That Jesse and I both prefer to see comments in LinkedIn when we post, but we also would love to see comments, just general comments on whatever podcast player you're hitting this up on. Or if you're following along on YouTube, drop a comment on YouTube. Hello, we'll respond. And on our beautiful websites.

jesse:

Oh yeah, we got some nice websites, man. And, and they're set up to take in your feedback because that is pretty darn valuable to us. Like rather it's the most valuable thing. If, if you're not, if we ain't serving you, we need to know so we can adjust. We want to bring some value to you. And another thing you can do is if you're getting some good insight, if some of the stuff that's coming out of our mouth is helpful to you share it with a friend, because I know, you know, people out there that are miserable. And kicking the dog every time they go home. And if they can practice some of these things, that dog will have fewer bruises.

Felipe:

Yes. Don't kick your dogs. People. It's just a job. Remember that nostalgia, you know, two years from now that job where you're kicking that dog, you can remember that with so much like a smile on your face and be like, that was such a great job. We don't make jobs like that anymore. When your poor dog's got a limp now the dog. Same bullshit.

jesse:

Good shit. That was good.

Felipe:

All right. So leave a comment.

jesse:

Yeah. Yeah. So now I'm flashed back into the miserable things I did because of miserable projects. Yeah.

Felipe:

you're like, man, that job was so good. Yeah, it was it wasn't that good?

jesse:

Nope. But thank you all for, for the YouTubers and the podcast, listeners, everybody out there, that's taking the time to sit with us and listen and watch and comment and share. We would not be doing this without you. It's your energy and your openness. That, that gets me through the day. Thank you. Thank you. Well, folks that wraps us up for collabo session number seven. I know we're sad. It's the end of the road for the lean builder, except we've got one more episode. And we actually got to spend about an hour with Mr. Joe and Keyan . And that episode is going to be hitting next week. We're releasing out of cycle just so we can get it to. Hot off the press. And want to give a shout out to Ms. Kirby coats. Long time, L and M family member. Kirby sent me this message. She, she may not be excited that I'm sharing with, but. She's awesome people. So who are your goals? Kirby. So lovingly lets us know. That she needs this whole episode written on motivational flashcards or something. Send it to my mentee as well. She said, it's like, they're speaking directly to me. Thank you Kirby, and to the rest of the L and M family out there. Love your Chingos you add a special flavor and a special color to my life. And Renee will be back soon. Summer's almost up, meaning the overtime will come to an end. Very soon. I hope. Please keep bringing the feedback. Keep making me smile. Keep hitting the likes on the YouTube. You know, this experience has exceeded my expectations. And it is 100% because of you. Thank you for coming. Committing the time on your drive on your workout. And you're doing chores around the house. When you're sneaking into listen during work. All of that stuff is extremely meaningful to me. Thank you for letting me into your life and we're going to keep the episodes come and baby. Man you are one dedicated listener, sticking with us all the way through to the very, very end. Please know that this podcast dies without you, and we invite you to share how the episodes is impacting you along with your thoughts, questions, and suggestions. You've been gracious with your time. So we added social media links in the show notes to make it super easy for you to connect with us because to yourself, stay cool. And we'll talk at you next time.