Learnings and Missteps

AI, Tech, and Human Insight with JD & Bryant

• Jesus Hernandez • Season 3

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Ready to unlock the secrets of successful entrepreneurship in the tech and construction sectors? Join us as we engage with Bryant and JD, the visionary co-founders of ControlQore. Discover how their personal frustrations with software integration and misinformation in the AI era sparked a transformative business journey. JD shares his inspiring evolution from a family business employee with zero tech background to a driven, tech-savvy entrepreneur. Together with Bryant, they illuminate the power of communication and relationship-building in industry innovation.

Experience the story behind crafting solutions that truly resonate with construction professionals, breaking the mold of conventional tech offerings. Bryant and JD discuss the real-world challenges faced by the industry, such as outdated billing processes and poor project cost visibility, which drove them to create pioneering tools. Their collaboration bridges the gap between technical expertise and construction know-how, ensuring robust systems that elevate financial control and operational efficiency. Uncover how Control Corps challenges traditional solutions like QuickBooks with intuitive designs that adapt to industry needs.

As AI reshapes industries, learn how it empowers rather than replaces human capabilities, enhancing productivity and decision-making. Bryant and JD emphasize the importance of combining technology with human insight, particularly in project management roles. Our conversation also highlights decision-making in leadership, stressing the need for action despite uncertainty. With anecdotes and reflections, this episode offers a rich exploration of mentorship, innovation, and the relentless drive to make a positive industry impact. Join us for a journey that champions future leaders and underscores the importance of leaving a lasting legacy.

Check out ControlQore:
http://www.controlqore.com/

Connect with Bryant and JD
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryant-solomon-cq-ceo/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-d-whitaker-8158b71a/

Make yourself a priority and get more done: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing

Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books

Speaker 1:

My dad didn't trust me with power tools, so he put me in charge of money.

Speaker 2:

Whenever you introduce multiple softwares trying to talk to each other in any format, you are introducing risk.

Speaker 1:

AI is only as smart as what you trained it on Yep, and I think there's a lot of misinformation out there. So now like it just has the potential to just make me feel really confident about being wrong.

Speaker 3:

Now like it just has the potential to just make me feel really confident about being wrong. The abilities to communicate, to listen, to build meaningful relationships is going to become extremely valuable, because the people that can't do it are going to be sitting on the curb.

Speaker 1:

You got to be possessed with a mission that just burns in your soul to be able to just stick with something in the face of extreme uncertainty.

Speaker 3:

What is going on L&M family? I'm back and this time I got a couple ballers that I get to introduce you to, to get to learn some of the tricks, some of the problems, some of the lessons they've had along their way. I got two of the co-founders of Control Corps, mr Bryant and Mr JD, and I met Bryant. He asked me to dance on a riverboat ride. I met him at the Savannah in September little retreat we had back in September the Savannah in September little retreat we had back in September and spent some time talking to him and what came across was that he's just a real damn human that cares about serving people, and he happens to be a tech guy. And so what I think we're going to figure out is these dudes really give a damn and they're trying to make a difference, but we're going to find out. Damn, and they're trying to make a difference, but we're going to find out.

Speaker 3:

And if you're new here, this is the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to see how real people just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and let's get to meet Mr Bryant and JD. Gentlemen, how are y'all doing today, really?

Speaker 2:

good. Hey, man, I really appreciated that shout out there. And you're right, those comments are what help you keep going.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so you guys decided to start a business. What was it? 45 days before you knew you made the right decision, it was going to work and it was a brilliant idea that everybody in the world was going to want.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so we started talking about this three years ago.

Speaker 2:

More than you and I have been talking about it for years, years and years.

Speaker 1:

And it really just came from frustrations of I don't know, I don't know. You don't get frustrated, I only get frustrated. But we're brother-in-law. If we seem like we're being mean to each other, it's just because we're family. It's love I got it.

Speaker 1:

I got it. I went to work for the family construction company and we do commercial GC, and so I'm really not from a tech background per se. I only learned about technology if I have to, and it turns out I had to. So that's kind of what got us sitting in this chair right now. But really, just talking to Bryce and man, am I bad at my job? Is it really this hard? Because I like most of my stuff's around HR, payroll, admin stuff.

Speaker 1:

My dad didn't trust me with power tools, so he put me in charge of money. Yeah, it worked out. Power tools. So he put me in charge of money. Yeah, so it worked out, but it worked out. Yeah, man, we're still on the journey and we've got a couple of products out now and it's really gratifying to see like people start to use those products and have it like create like actual control and solve the problems that really set us down the path now. But I don't know, man, like we're enjoying the journey. It can be kind of stressful, but we're still. We got a long roadmap ahead of us.

Speaker 1:

And so yeah, it's been a little more than 45 days, we'll just say that.

Speaker 3:

I'm hearing three years plus. So can you take us back? Because here's what's. I'll just be straight up, and I know a bunch of the L&M family members out there have a similar experience. We get people that come out to the job site, come out to the office, with this new solution that's going to solve all my problems. And it's clear to me that whoever that person is that I'm talking to doesn't really care. They just need to sell, a sign up, they need to make a sale or whatever.

Speaker 3:

And now the tech world has duh right Construction. There's immense gaps of technology uses in our industry, and so all these people are saying, man, we could go make a lot of money in construction. Let's just go create a. So let's find a problem. There's a million of them. Let's create some stuff and then sell it and we'll cash out. And it feels like that all the way down to when they come to talk to us in the field. Yeah, very few of them really understand. I think there's a difference between understanding the pain versus trying to solve a problem, a common problem. To solve a problem, a common problem, and what I'm hearing from you guys is that y'all understood or understand the pain that you're trying to solve. So take us back to those times when y'all were cussing and pissed and frustrated, defeated, deflated, like what were those conversations like that got you to the point like, hey, maybe we could create some kind of digital something or other to alleviate this stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I can go back to one time. Just this was probably about five years ago, before we even had done like any of our bill processing, like digitally. So everything was paper, just dealing with just binders of invoices, just dealing with just binders of invoices. Wondering like man, does this even make sense? I put this paper on someone's desk and I don't even know after that point what's going to happen. Is it going to get an approval?

Speaker 1:

And then, honestly, for me it got to the point where I couldn't even bill a client. We had a lot of time and material contracts and I remember one time someone asked me so how much is this project going to cost? Now, I'm not the estimator, I'm not the project manager, I was just the guy downstream that was trying to get paid and then pay people. And I just remember being asked that and feeling so dumb that I couldn't respond. I'm like, I don't know. I'll tell you when we're done how much it costs. And those are the good ones, right, and just being like you really should be able to answer that. I feel like I should answer that question, but I have no idea. I can tell you what it did cost, what it was supposed to cost when we started.

Speaker 1:

But at this point we're like a couple dozen change orders into this thing, I don't know, like what the engineers forgot or the architect didn't draw up or like whatever it is. That's not a good feeling. So that was kind of one of them where I'm like I, if we're going to truly have control over our business and over these projects, we have to find a way to start creating visibility and it shouldn't hinge upon like double or triple entry, like oh, I'll write here, let's write down here and then that. So I think that was just one big moment, like for me personally. I I don't know, bri was your big aha moment when you decided just listen to me. So yeah, probably I stole bri actually from the tech industry. I fired myself so I could go work on operations and I said you come do the finance stuff. Was it a learning curve, brian?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, construction accounting has its own learning curve and everybody does it a little bit differently across subcontractors, general contractors and the banks. Everybody cares about one part or another. General contractors and the banks everybody cares about one part or another. And so for me, kind of the aha moment was just like there's so much tediousness to job costing and there's so much that can fall out of the cracks, even with somebody you know JD talks about when they're pen and paper. Well, fast forward now. He's learned and he's implemented technology where it makes sense. But even now, with a pretty robust process and tech stack, there's still plenty of opportunity for leaky bucket. Like, no matter what you do, if you have integrations and if you have multiple, whenever you introduce multiple softwares trying to talk to each other in any format, you are introducing risk.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2:

I just kept seeing that over and over again. Whether it was with our organization or with our subs, or with the banks just using multiple tools, there was always a risk of data of some kind not going where it needed to go or too much of it going to where it needed. Yeah, I remember what.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know, exactly what time, like bro, you sent him all of that. I send them.

Speaker 3:

I was like oh get ready they're gonna of hearing you complain JD, and said you know what, let me just solve this so I could stop hearing you whine. You went and said hey, bro, I'm trying to do this thing. This ain't my bag. You're in the tech space, help me solve this problem. So through that, you're in it three years now. You're having some success. How big did that problem look when y'all made that decision, in comparison to what you know now?

Speaker 2:

It's actually really funny. I think I just barely figured out what it is we're building like two days ago. I have understood the pain point and I knew what we wanted to build, but I finally I feel like I understand. How does ControlCore truly create an output that is just incredibly valuable to an owner, a controller and a project manager? Took you that long? I always knew like what I was building, but I knew it in a really complicated way is the best way to say it, you can see it all, but now I've got it into four basic columns.

Speaker 1:

So what did it for you? Was it our wall full of notes?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was our wall full of notes.

Speaker 1:

I'm looking at our last big product planning push. Yeah, yeah, so how would you describe it most simply then yeah, yeah, so how would you?

Speaker 3:

describe it most simply then, Before that we got to do our L&M family member shout out, and this one goes out to Mr Shane Griffin. Mr Shane took the time to drop me this note. Shane says Jesse, thanks for leading the conversation today, Enjoy your candid approach and it was one of the best group discussions I've been a part of. See you around, which is awesome. I mean folks out there. You already know and if you don't know, I got to tell you. You know anybody that creates that has a podcast, post content. Leave a comment, because it means the world to us. We don't know if we're crazy, speaking into the abyss, and every comment is fuel for us to keep going. So drop a comment. That's the way I have the opportunity to highlight you on a future show.

Speaker 2:

Control is the best way to put it. I know the outputs that I want for me to feel like we've succeeded in helping people feel like they're in control.

Speaker 1:

This is like my soapbox moment, so I'm going to not go that way. So we'll let Jess control the tone.

Speaker 3:

JD, you're from the construction space. This is a problem that you have swam in personally, right? You've dealt with it, and so you know that there's a technology opportunity here, Brilliant duh. Now, as that thing is getting designed, with Bryant and everybody else, I imagine you're the one that gets to say no, this isn't doing what I want it to do. Did I read that right? Yep.

Speaker 1:

I do, and it can be exciting some days. But I'm really lucky to be surrounded by some really good team members and, in fact, like I'm still swimming in it on both sides. So I'm still pretty heavily involved with the construction company and, given where we're at right now, I'm forced to split my time pretty evenly between between the two organizations. But, yeah, I it's actually really exciting. To be honest, this product has actually lived in my mind for probably five years now. Yeah, I know that feeling. Yeah, it's a lot of work, man, to just put together every little detail to get this thing to produce what you know you need it to produce.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so there's a lot of smart people out there. Ai, right. I was watching YouTube this morning, going through YouTube this morning, and I don't know, there was a dozen videos that said use AI to make a million dollar solution. Make a million dollars a month. There aren't like all this raw. Why didn't y'all just do that?

Speaker 1:

This is actually, I love this question.

Speaker 3:

So, AI.

Speaker 1:

Ai is only as smart as what you trained it on, and I think there's a lot of misinformation out there. So now, like it just has the potential to just make me feel really confident about being wrong. You can even ask a question. Let's just take one of my favorite moments in construction is in a post-construction meeting, when you get to go through and hear about all the dumb stuff that you wish you never did. But you do it so that you can at least make your pain like mean something, if I can share.

Speaker 1:

Hey, man, I was an idiot and I didn't call him for my special inspection and the concrete didn't spec out and we were like or whatever didn't hit its strength, we had to rip it all out, or like another one where we did a remodel and we should have. I don't know. Actually, jesse, do you come from the plumbing background, if I remember? Yes, sir, yeah, okay, we remodeled this building I think it was built in like the 70s or something and we never took the time to actually camera all the lines and I think they were originally built like cast iron lines for something. And we get going and the plumbing system starts to fail. And we weren't.

Speaker 1:

I think we were probably man, I don't know. I mean, finishes were in, like walls were painted and we were starting to detect like leaks in the system or something. It was just a slab on grade type building. So next thing I know I'm seeing invoices for a little like mini excavator that can fit down a hallway and we're tearing up LVT and concrete floors and we're basically re-plumbing your underground. So the point being is just learning from all of the mistakes is kind of I guess I don't know where I'm going with this Otherwise it's a great story.

Speaker 1:

It's just fun to tell about all the dumb stuff you've done and you wish you wouldn't have done it. But I think when that starts to kind of build its way into our product and thinking about okay, ai, I think it would have given me probably a response of okay, just what would be? How do I apply AI to that? I don't even know how to play AI to dig in a hole, actually, jesse.

Speaker 3:

I think that's the big chunk of it. I'm learning how to leverage AI more and more in content production and stuff, but what I don't get is the value, the wisdom and experience that comes from like doing the damn thing, and the wisdom and experience comes from screwing it up. I mean, if I were to use AI to produce whatever and it doesn't work, I have no idea how to fix it or where to even start troubleshooting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's so true From a JD use it in a building perspective, but I'm talking about it from an accounting perspective. Ai can. It's a powerful tool and it can accomplish a lot. I don't want to discredit its abilities, but when I go in and open up a set of books and I start looking through things based on my failures to notice and see things from the past, I know what I'm looking for and I can see patterns. I can see histories. I can see things that you're again. You can have AI enhance those capabilities. But if you think that you can have AI just do it for you and you can go back to not having any experience, like we're setting ourselves up for a world of hurt, thinking that AI can take over any job that requires a little bit of help.

Speaker 1:

I think the best word to use in association with AI is empowerment. Yeah, like I'm empowered now to output a lot more, like I get a lot more tasks done. Or like I can get a lot more tasks done, like I can ask a good question and get some good direction on where to start going, thanks to AI. So don't get me wrong. I mean, like I'm using chat GPT every day. Like everyone teases me. I'm like dude, just ask chat GPT.

Speaker 1:

So we're doing our design right now for our accounting and it's really nerdy stuff. Hey, like what is the exact journal entry that I should make sure that we should use when booking a customer credit memo and a vendor credit? Should I use a contra asset account or should I use, you know, whatever, what are my options? What are people going to be thinking? And instead of me going spending an hour just surfing around different sites, in that moment, like I was empowered to make a good design decision in a product, and so I don't think that our expectation should be that we're going to be able to remove people from like an industry, at least that relies on relationships, like this is a relationship driven industry. Technically, we're like we. We're building technology, but the technology is intended to strengthen relationships is the way I like to think about it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know, this is a stab at all my PM project manager friends out there, because in Jesse land there is a delineation there's a project manager, there's a project mangler and then there's a project administrator.

Speaker 3:

There's a project mangler and then there's a project administrator. The project mangler we already know they just screw everything up, piss everybody off like they don't really help project administrator all they're doing is processing pay apps and submit like they're just processing paperwork. Right, project manager actually has the skills of influence and relationships and as AI continues to get stronger and we learn how to leverage it or become more empowered by it, those scrub project administrators are going to be obsolete. We're not going to need them because I believe AI, and that's not just in the project manager space or position, I should say in construction. But what I think is going to happen is, more and more, the abilities to communicate, to listen, to build meaningful relationships is going to become extremely valuable, because the people that can't do it are going to be sitting on the curb. They're going to be on the bench. What do y'all think about that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's an interesting thing when I think of AI. And a hundred years ago, when all of us were in school, what was the big thing? Well, it was the calculator. Right, we were using calculators to do stuff. And the teachers were like, hey, you don't have, you're not going to have a calculator in your pocket when it comes time to calculate. Well, we have calculators in our pocket and kind of backpedaling a little bit on my ai. There's the work that is numerical by nature and quantitative by nature. That's the first stop is where you say, yep, ai can get involved here. I think about ai application in control core all the time. Where? Where does it make the most sense? And it's wherever there's quantitative data that is consistently being input Qualitative data. So when we're talking about your project manager the guy that's actually good at building relationships unless he's going to be a droid from Star Wars, c-3po you're just not going to we're a long ways away from AI having a relationship building personality. I don't know if that'll ever happen.

Speaker 1:

I think one thing that we could hopefully expect is those that are in, maybe some of those in our organization.

Speaker 1:

I call them project coordinators and my hope is, with the help of AI and good technology, we're building bandwidth for those individuals to where they can cover more ground. But, more importantly, they're in like a kind of an exposure environment in that stage of their development, to where they're being exposed to submittals, rfis, the cadence of the industry, the issues that come up, the things that maybe the PM's dealing with on a regular basis, and what maybe that hopefully turns into is that these are just good. These are not permanent positions. They're growth positions that allow for the next generation of good quality project managers as technology improves. One of the byproducts benefits is that we find that we can finally keep up and do more with less, less people, less personnel, and we're able to invest in the next generation of good quality PMs and good teammates. So, yeah, there's two ways to look at that. In one way, I don't want to be completely replaced, because we need people to have a good, safe training ground.

Speaker 3:

Oh, yeah, yeah, I think. Before the replacement and reduction happens, what I am strategically focused on is finding leaders that understand the value and are committed to developing their people. I 100% believe there's a bigger number out there than is obvious, but we can't see them because they're drowning in bullshit busy work, processing information, processing data, like just crap that technology can handle for us. And when we get technology, design it appropriately so that it gives them the bandwidth to develop the next generation. That's when now we're cooking with fire, right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's.

Speaker 3:

exciting, there's a lot of people that have that in them. They have the capability to train and develop, but they don't have the bandwidth because they're putting freaking invoices in a binder. Your time is like shit. I wanted to talk to them but I mean, you know how many times I work with people and one of their biggest problems is doing their annual or quarterly reviews with their team, which is one of the most important things. They're like man, I know how important. I just can't get to it. Why not? Because I'm doing, I'm putting invoices in binders. I mean it's not a good answer, but it's really a real life example of that.

Speaker 1:

So my old man. So I actually been really lucky. I get along great with my dad and when I went to work for him I was really able to jump in and start like identifying issues and I was given a lot of just freedom to just address and create value. But in my old man, like he will never claim to be like a good teacher, a good instructor, mostly because he's not good at teaching or instructing. But it doesn't change the fact that he's got like a head full of gray hair and 50 years of experience in the industry. However it's delivered or however it's whatever, like he's not in instruction mode, he's getting better. I won't give him that, but it's because it wasn't until he stopped taking the time to be the guy who, like would hand enter you get a bid in and they're printing off a bid and then we're qualifying them and then we're like hand entering the numbers and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

And I think some people probably miss the fact of opportunity costs. I really actually really think that's an important point. Jesse is just okay. There's one point efficiency. Right, oh, it takes me more time to do something, but are we stopping to consider, like the cost of what we're not doing as well and the impact that we could have on people. And I would say the more experience you have in this industry, the more wisdom you have to share. There's a lot higher cost on your time than just your wage. There's a lot that we need from people that have been in the industry for a long time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I love it. I mean, what rings is what are?

Speaker 2:

you optimizing for.

Speaker 3:

There's all kinds of ways to optimize your operation, but what are you optimizing for? There's all kinds of ways to optimize your operation, but what are you optimizing for? Are you just optimizing to get more revenue, to take on more work? I don't think that's a sustainable model, especially with the shortage that we have at every level in our industry. What if we start optimizing so that we can transfer knowledge? Yeah, let's get that extra space so that we can go invest in our people and nurture the talented people that we spend a lot of money recruiting and retaining. But there's some discipline required there. So, on the idea of discipline, y'all are three years in. You haven't given up, which I absolutely want to talk about here in a bit. But first, for that youngling out there, that's saying, man, well, they started a thing and I'm going to start a thing. What do they need to be ready for? What are some of the kick in the face? Holy moly, I did not expect that. That y'all have experienced along the way in the development of Control Corps.

Speaker 1:

All have experienced along the way in the development of Control Corps. I man persistence and don't look for any secrets. I don't think there's really any secrets to success. I've actually you know what. I don't know that I have a lot of wisdom to share, but I know one thing that I have benefited from the most is I've adopted a pretty intense study of different, like famous, founders. There's some really great podcasts out there. One of them, being Founders, is one of them that someone introduced me to.

Speaker 1:

But as you look at the history of great founders and people who have ideas, you feel like you have an idea, and so much so that one thing probably money isn't going to be enough to drive you. To be honest, you got to be possessed with a mission that just burns in your soul to be able to just stick with something in the face of extreme uncertainty. The prospect of making a difference in someone else's business for us, I think, is so exciting and thrilling that it's enough to overcome the other moments when people don't I mean they don't you meet us, I don't, you might just be some other guy, they don't know us from Adam and I get that. It's okay, I'm not offended, but I would probably take the time to listen. But yeah, you gotta be persistent. That's really it. Yeah, Tenacity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you got to be persistent. That's really it. Yeah, tenacity, persistence, it all has the same thing you have to go home at the end of the day, really, unfortunately, tired most days.

Speaker 1:

I love that feeling.

Speaker 2:

But, yeah, I like that feeling of being tired at the end of the day. But for me and starting Control Corps specifically, man, yeah, I think that tenacity and an unyielding belief in yourself, whether it's earned or not earned, you have to believe in yourself and, thankfully, believe in your team as well, if you have them. And we're lucky, like JD said, we're really lucky that the folks that we have around us have the same confidence in themselves and their same confidence in us as well. So there's a united front of trust and confidence around us all that we're all going to put in everything we've got until the very end.

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's amazing. So I love, jd, that you pointed out. If it's just money, that may not be enough, right? Because I talk to construction leaders all the time and one of the questions I like to ask is why are you in construction? To make money? We're all here to make money. We're here to make money.

Speaker 3:

If you really are about making money, you pick the worst damn business because of all the risk. The margins aren't great. It's a pain in the butt. You're exposed to every damn possible variation that's going to be attacking your margins every single day. So if you really really wanted to make money, you could sell pictures of your feet online For real. We could do that right now. I think that's a big not necessarily selling pictures of your feet, but I think that's part of. The.

Speaker 3:

One of the things that employers need to overcome is learning how to appreciate their people, because I know firsthand I can make 40 to 50 grand a year sitting at home, not having to wear pants Right Like and every other teenager, young adult can do that too right now, and so we need to create an environment that is better than that for them to come and be a part of it. Sure how to bring it to light. Bryant, you said earlier on, in the past very recent days, it became clearer about what it is you're developing and working towards, and so obviously you've had y'all mentioned you had amazing team members working on this thing together. But what are some of the realities that people need to expect right Like this again folks out there that have an idea that want to bring it to life. They don't necessarily need to be like tech geniuses, but just bringing an idea to life with the team. What's some advice in reality that you guys can impart to folks that are tinkering with getting out there.

Speaker 1:

I think for us, one piece of advice that we were given frequently was like validate your ideas. And we'd already kind of skipped past that because I'd just been living this for the last 10 years and I'm like I am the validation, and I know that sounds arrogant, maybe it is, I don't know, and I don't even know that it's really me. I kind of just feel like I'm just more of a representative of all of the teammates that I've had to work with over the years and train and listen to and understand their frustrations with different tools, different products and whatnot. So I think where I'm trying to go with that is make sure you really understand the pain point that you're trying to solve. Believe that it's painful enough that people will want to solve that problem too. Like they share that and they're willing to invest time or money or whatever the case is. Like make sure it's legit pain point.

Speaker 2:

I think that and this applies to software as much as it does construction Every single day you are faced with a lot of choices in front of you and you have like a hundred different things that you could do. Each one is appealing in its own right, and one of the hardest things that I have as the leader and as the CEO here is being able to make the choices that we need to make in order to progress the business forward, and knowing what all of the choices are. There's so many out there. I'm not old, but I'm not young either.

Speaker 2:

I haven't experienced enough of life to just be able to say, oh, here are all of my options, and so here's the ones that make the most sense. Every single one has pros, every single one has cons, and you don't know half of the choices that are available to you. And so there's some days I'll sit down and I'm like I don't know what to do next. The literal I don't even know what choices I have. And then there's other days I'll sit down and be like there's too much for me to do next. How am I?

Speaker 2:

going to choose what to focus on. So I think that's probably one of the hardest things is understanding and again, I talked at the beginning of the vision what's ahead of us, what's the main thing that you're trying to accomplish, and like then winding your path down all these choices that get you to that spot. Some days you're going to feel like you don't know, you don't have any choices, and some days you're going to feel like you have too many and I still don't know what the answer is Like. How do you solve for that? If you guys know, let me know.

Speaker 3:

Man. So one is choices Be ready to make decisions. Two, validate Validate your idea, but in terms of like the choices and decisions, I've worked with Ed Mauricio. He's a pipe fitter and I was man. I was a second year apprentice I think, and they placed me with them because people would quit on him. He was hard to work like. He was not hard to work with If you took direction and took action. If he couldn't take direction and couldn't take action, he was really hard to work. It was simple. He was very clear about what he wanted. You just did that. Anyhow, I ended up working with him for like two years and he really a lot of the things that he taught me about looking at work and approaching and planning work really helped my career, really helped my career.

Speaker 3:

Anyways, we were piping in a mechanical room and he was a welder. So we would fit up all the steam pipe, the chill water pipe, and he would weld it. While he was welding I'd run all the pipe that was two inch and below, because that was screw pipe or copper or whatever, and I tie in the air handlers and all that. And there was this one mechanical room where we had like freaking six coils in a room like the size of my little studio here and I was drawing it out, trying to figure out like man, if I do this it's not going to work. I'm going to cause this problem. Excess, right? Just all these options.

Speaker 3:

And Ed said, jesse, make a decision and go with it. And I said, well, he said you've been staring at the damn wall drawing pictures for two hours. You haven't done a damn thing. Make a decision and go with it. I said yeah, but he's like get started. And the next step, you'll validate all the things that you're worried about. And so since then I heard somebody else say the answers that I seek often are on the other side of action. So when there's option, I got to pick one. If I don't pick, just to pick the least worst one, and then we can figure out the other side. I don't know if that works for you guys.

Speaker 2:

It does man.

Speaker 1:

It resonates well with me, I actually really do like that, and that's saying a lot, because everyone likes to accuse me of overthinking. I just say I'm just trying to make up for your lack of thinking. That's a t-shirt, but the truth is there's the balance, and I think I've learned a lot about that too. Is just, man, like when I started this, I mean, man, my goal was to outthink, outmaneuver and just outplan every single mistake. And over time I realized, man, that's not going to work and there's a lot of value and just just just go, just try and know that you're going to make a mistake, just know that you're going to screw up, there's some mistakes. I think that kind of jump out that you're like I'm going to, I'm going to work a little extra harder to to avoid that. I know, sometimes, like I like to're like I'm going to work a little extra harder to avoid that.

Speaker 1:

I know, sometimes I like to even think when I'm looking at a process and I say, well, what's the cost of this If it goes wrong? Am I going to get punched in the face or ran over by a bus? And that's kind of the approach I took when we were with our vendor compliance, when we designed that I'm like what are you going to emphasize more? Losing your license or maybe not having a certificate of insurance on file? Like I could kind of pay my way through the lack of whatever it is for GC If I don't have a cert on file and maybe they did a couple thousand dollars worth of work and I got to pay a penalty or whatever when I get my insurance audit. But if the Department of Professional Licensing realizes that I hire someone that doesn't have a license and my license is gone I just got hit by a bus.

Speaker 1:

So that's really helpful sometimes to just stop and think if this goes wrong, play it all the way through. Yes, like what ones can I do I really need to work hard to avoid and which ones do I want to? Just, I'll just go.

Speaker 1:

No buses, a punch every now and then we will recover yeah, yeah, you can recover from that, but punch in the face once in a while if it's bryan, yeah yeah, I'm a white man, so all right.

Speaker 3:

So I feel like we've been dancing around and I know the lnn family's like, all right, you brought these. You keep saying control core. But what's control core? So you've mentioned a couple of times your mission. You've mentioned a couple of times the vision of where y'all are headed, the problem you're solving, the people you want to serve. So can we just have it straight out what's the mission, what's the service? Whose life are you making better?

Speaker 2:

I mean in the most rudimentary way I can think of, is we replace QuickBooks for contractors. Okay, and that's a strong statement. Quickbooks is a big player in our industry. What we're doing is we are providing a way for a controller or an owner to feel like their finances are under control at any level. If you're brand new and just starting off, you need to start incorporating job costing into your business as early as possible, early as possible. And if you're a hundred million dollar GC and you're still using QuickBooks desktop, I don't care how efficient you are with your personnel and stuff You're still not maximizing the efficiency that you could with a new piece of technology. And so we're replacing any ERP in reality, any ERP that a contractor is using that's causing them to lose visibility or lose confidence in their data or to lose stability If I have to like like.

Speaker 1:

One way I like to look at is if I lost, I think about my team and it's made up of good people, and good people sometimes need to go take a different job and good people sometimes need to go take a different job Like personal. But if I lost this person, or this person is my process, is my setup? Basically, whatever it is, combination of processes, training, technology, all of it together, it's my setup. If I remove a person, is it going to survive? And that's kind of what we describe. The stability part is Can I reproduce these results again and again in a normal environment? In normal environments, people come and go and if the answer is no to that, you might have a control issue. You can't really control your destiny. If I can't see what's not getting done you have a control issue.

Speaker 1:

You need visibility. Another way to describe our mission is we're empowering financial control, and that requires tools to do it and sometimes even a combination of services. Our product is control. We use software, we use services. That's our deliverable, that's our outcome that we're trying to produce.

Speaker 3:

So here's what I think I heard You're helping control finances, you're helping make it all visible, transparent, what's happening and what's not happening. Because I think that's a freaking brilliant point, because it's easy to see what's happening and even easier to forget about what's not happening until it's too late. By the time you find out, the damage caused is irreparable. Brian's smiling like oh yeah, thank you for what we're talking about. And it's a tool, technology that if I lose my ace superstar, my system doesn't fall apart. I still have the structure and the framework to continue the business, and having that element of the business will just say stable and dependable. Did I hear right?

Speaker 1:

How's that? Yeah, and don't get me wrong, you're going to have to replace that person, but hopefully all the knowledge and the know-how doesn't go with them the learning curve doesn't and I think part of the way you safeguard against that is that you ensure that whatever it is that you're doing whether it's a bill approval workflow or you know, this is how we get contracts written does your technology support or facilitate a an intuitive approach? Because I know sometimes some softwares feel so specialized that if you plug someone else in there, you're not going to be able to find your way through it, and so that's one opportunity. When we started this mission was to really scrutinize our design and ask ourselves okay, if I'm a normal person who never actually takes the time to look at the training material and I can yeah, I'm the weirdo, that's like. I'm like, oh, let's read this thing before we even try, but I get that's nuts. That's yeah, like, can I fall through this thing? Is it intuitive enough that I can just think, oh, I want to go approve a transaction, or I'm thinking about this, and I look at the platform and think I'm going to guess I'm going to start there, and so that's one element of our design in trying to really scrutinize just can anybody fall into this thing and just start producing value? So I think another thing to think about, like the point of like not knowing what you don't know or not seeing the stuff that's not getting done One of the hardest things for me when it came to just card management.

Speaker 1:

So card and expense management Like credit card, yeah. So for us, like as a general contractor, I typically needed to put a card in almost every superintendent's hand because they're that flex point. There's a little bit of a scope gap or something, or whatever something happens and I needed to be able to still job, cost and control those expenses. And on some of the early platforms that we adopted, I couldn't look at the platform and have it just jump out at me what transactions have been initiated but not coded, and I could eventually get to it. I just had to go pull a report. So I think sometimes when we think about like system design, unless you've had to like deal with the problem, you think, yeah, just go pull a report. But in our perspective it's like that's not enough. I need to pull up a dashboard and basically say here's your open transactions and know exactly what that means and have a little like harassment button.

Speaker 1:

So maybe I shouldn't call the shock of yeah, that's yeah, that was on the product roadmap and then from there it's like, okay, if my super has done their coding, where's my pm? At like, have they done the approval? And so just knowing the workflow and building that in a way that for a controller, like at the end of the day, I just need to make sure that I'm getting good record, I have good, reliable data, and so, unless I have visibility on each status and it's really quick and easy, so let's, that's. That's a tangent on one of the ways of how does ControlCore create control or visibility when it comes just to your cards? And we do the same thing for bills?

Speaker 1:

I come from a background where paper pushers or pencil pushers, however you want to describe us we don't self-perform. So for us it was really important to generate clarity form, so for us it was really important to generate clarity around all of our payables. I think another really important thing to just people should know about what we hope for, our mission. It's back to some points we made earlier about relationships, and I think oftentimes we all. There's some really awesome people in this industry and we do a really good job of jumping to conclusions and being wrong most of the time, and so one of the things that I've noticed over my career is when people don't get paid, they automatically assume that the other person just didn't want to pay them. Yeah, it's a personal decision. Yeah man.

Speaker 1:

I don't like your face, I'm not paying you and, man, in reality it's. I didn't get your invoice, man, I'm sorry. So and so those are really like really kind of silly communication gaps that should be easier to convey. So, yeah, like a basic idea is this hey well, first of all, however, you want to get me your bill. I'm going to make that a little bit easier for you, but not only that, but I'll just automate a quick like notification I got your bill, it's been notified, it's been approved, or if it's been rejected like even more important.

Speaker 1:

So just facilitating good communication and like allowing people to see what's happening behind the scenes. I think that's really good for relationships. We can prevent a lot of frustrations by just giving a little visibility into where each person's at put them on the same page, so to speak.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, we got enough problems. We don't need an assumption or an oversight to further erode or add to the stress that we deal with in our industry. So you mentioned $100 million. So do I have to be a $100 million general contractor to be able to get the value out of Control?

Speaker 2:

Corps? No, that's a good question, and to illustrate that I'll tell long-winded no, I'm just kidding. But the smallest user of control cores I was telling you before we started is my brother. He just started his construction company this year and so he's brand new. He's just a carpenter out there doing decks and fireplaces, whatever. You know, whatever.

Speaker 2:

And so he's running on control core and he's a really easy, easy young kid and so he's tech driven and gets a lot of value at it. Like he can use it better than he can use his QuickBooks online. He's bought in, he loves it and, unfortunately for him, he's my guinea pig. I test out all of our new stuff. I'm like, hey, man, we're about to release this. Tell me if everything stops working.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so broad range, lots of people can, and I got friends that I think I should probably send y'all's way.

Speaker 2:

Oh man, ok, how let's do an over under over under in terms of time before QuickBooks starts coming after y'all, I don't know. So QuickBooks owns in our space. Quickbooks has about 65 to 70 percent of the market in the small to medium-sized construction guys. That makes up about, I think, a solid 10% or 12% of all of QuickBooks' total business. It's a big piece of their pie. The thing is that QuickBooks has had their chance to really make good construction accounting tools. They're QuickBooks Online.

Speaker 2:

There's big problems and they've tried to specifically like they have the contractor edition. I believe that they have and I think that we actually have used it. Quickbooks Desktop is getting sunset. They're trying to push everybody onto the SaaS model. They want the residual revenue, so QuickBooks Desktop is going away. Quickbooks Online is so incredibly different from QuickBooks Desktop they're barely even recognizable between the two, and QuickBooks Online just really struggles with job costing effectively and easily.

Speaker 2:

It's really complicated to get down. You have to go in, you have to go into sales. You have to create the product. It's really complicated to get down. You have to go in, you have to go into sales. You have to create the product. It's really not intuitive. And then, on top of that, the approval processes just aren't project specific. You're always going to have workarounds for your approval processes and then two. You'll always or B or C or F, I don't even know what letter, alphabet number I'm on that.

Speaker 2:

The niche of being in the construction space and being project specific means that you're reporting mechanisms, like you said, over under. Quickbooks doesn't have that. Quickbooks doesn't have a whip report. It's not going to be there. And if we start making enough of an impact maybe they'll pay attention to us. But honestly I doubt it, because it's very difficult for that big of a company to pivot that hard into a vertical and do it right. We're small and we'll probably be small for a very long time. We'll get a little bit bigger. Maybe we'll get an employee in here that can do the bookkeeping instead, but we can pivot and we've built this specifically in our vertical and so once we release out everything that we've got on the agenda, there's no reason for a contractor to use QuickBooks, and we say that boldly and probably foolishly, but that's our vision and that's our goal.

Speaker 3:

Oh man. Well, I'm going to be rooting for them to be coming after y'all sooner than later, because that'll be a good sign. That means you're taking market share right. That's what they're going to pay attention to you.

Speaker 1:

I don't think we're doing anything that's new, like no one's going to be surprised by a construction accounting product that tries to really facilitate job costing or really helps people automate the generation of a web manages lean labor.

Speaker 1:

so it's kind of like when I get mad at my kids, I'm like you shouldn't be surprised. I told you this was, I think, quickbooks. They know what a contractor needs, and I guess, like maybe we got differences opinion about how to do it. I think so that's one other thought. I don't you know, like, whether they want to do something. I think so that's one other thought. I don't you know, like, whether they want to do something about it or not. I kind of feel like they chose not to so.

Speaker 1:

And then my other thought is is like the true solution that we're trying to produce is a lot bigger than just accounting.

Speaker 1:

If you look at, like, the life cycle of a bill, when does a bill really come to life?

Speaker 1:

Well, it becomes to life when you write a contract and I establish a schedule of values, and then what really actually happened before that contract usually was a bid.

Speaker 1:

So if I really want to approve my billing experience over here, you might want to think about approving the bidding experience all the way over here and see how that flows all the way through to your bill. And so there's a really expansive perspective that we maintain that, like most issues, if you really want to find a good solution, you have to trace it back to its origin. So I know that if I had a really complete bid, that bid would easily convert to a good, clean contract with a clean schedule of values and that clean schedule of values would then set me up for a really good, clean billing experience. So we're down here, we started on bills, I know, and we're working our way upstream, and I think that's just crazy enough and arrogant enough, or whatever you want to call it that maybe people don't want to touch that Right, but for me it's. I don't know how you don't and say that it's a real solution.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, I think the difference is it's like part of the work that I do. I try to help people get out of the habit of swatting symptoms. Let's go upstream, because this problem did not originate here, it surfaced here, it put out the fire here. And let's go further upstream and find out what's contributed Like where did this start and redesign the system around that so that this doesn't happen anymore. Right and so well. Let's start with the billing, because that's going to alleviate a lot of pain. But you're not going to stop there. You're going to continue going further upstream to say let's kill this bad boy all the way at the beginning, so that it's a no brainer for lack of a better term to use this thing, because it's going to carry me through the life cycle of the project.

Speaker 2:

Nailed it. That's it. I think that you just created our, you just made our slogan 10.

Speaker 3:

Well, good, so two more questions. I got one easy one, and then I got one that's not so easy. What does this all have to do with your podcast?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, well, as you can see Is that the easy one or the hard one, I don't-.

Speaker 3:

That's the easy one.

Speaker 2:

That's an easy one, jd, and I just love to hear ourselves talk. I hate you I assume, then, that you like to hear me talk.

Speaker 2:

So, we want to do a podcast that highlights we want to bring professionals just like just the exact same way that you're doing it and talk about specifically the financial aspect of the construction industry, some of the things that have really been hard and mistakes that we have made as a general contractor and mistakes that they have made.

Speaker 2:

We want to just highlight some of the problems, like mistakes that we're making as an industry, but also just like things that have been imposed upon us, like when we think about some of the complexities to construction finance. A lot of that has been imposed upon us by lawyers and bankers, and so there's a lot of conversation to have and we need to let the lawyers and the bankers come and have conversations and tell us why they do it the way they do. But there's just a lot of opportunity for us to make discussion and make people like one feel heard or seen that they're not the only ones in the industry that struggle to keep their financial records straight Like everybody does. No, nobody does it very well, and if they do, then they're probably not telling the truth. Yeah, that's not true.

Speaker 1:

I do a great job. Yeah, JD does a great job.

Speaker 2:

But and then too I also want to help I don't know if dispel barriers, but I also really am passionate about helping technology and construction kind of reconcile their opinions of each other. I don't think people are quick to say, oh, construction people aren't, you know, don't like technology. I'm hesitant to believe that or think that. I just think that there are processes that the technology industry takes for granted that the construction industry hasn't been exposed to very much, and then, vice versa, the construction industry has processes and has things that the tech space can't even dream of. It's so messy and complicated, and so there just needs to be a little bit more of an understanding about folks that decide to bridge the gap between the two. We'll have technology experts come on and have conversations what it's like to build a tech company and why we do things the way we do and then we'll have construction folks come on that say you know, this is what we do to implement technology and it works for us, or it doesn't work for us. Obviously, the financial component as well.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, very altruistic of you, brian oh. Is there not? The financial component as well? Awesome, very altruistic of you, brian oh, is there not? I just I agree with everything.

Speaker 1:

No, my, my other thought is this that there's a lot of options right now, like for people that need to buy technology, like we feel the need, but how do you feel confident about your choice? And so I think that in our industry, we make a lot of purchasing decisions based off of relationships. If I can trust you, I think I'm willing to contract. If your price is okay. We got to pass that barrier but, more than anything, I need to believe that you can deliver the outcome that I hired you to deliver, and that's really hard to know.

Speaker 1:

I think, with technology, to just get to know us as the creators, the designers, the people behind the product, behind the technology, behind services, to at least give them one other data point to evaluate whether or not we're a good decision. I think that's important to know what our motives are, our workflows, and hopefully we can get into that in the podcast and help people feel confident about an investment, because adopting a accounting platform and migrating and that's a huge decision to make like without as many inputs as possible, like having another kid, so close.

Speaker 2:

I bet you, jesse, that you've probably experienced that same build in confidence like with this that you're doing, like folks can see that you're not just another consultant or whatever, like you've actually got chops to earn in a relationship.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and it was by accident, right. Like I started the podcast four years ago because I needed an outlet. Right, we were on lockdown and my job said figure out how to do your job from home, and I was used to flying around the country five nights a week, like it was like what else am I supposed to do? Anyhow, fast forward, what I discovered was it gives me the opportunity, or it's a venue for people to experience me and understand whether they like my flavor or not. I'm pretty casual. I like to have fun, I'm going to say crazy stuff and if they need somebody, you know prim and proper, I'm not your guy and you know that. You know that if you listen to any of my stuff and a lot of the clients I get is like man, we want you because the way you carry yourself is going to resonate with our people in the field, and that's our biggest problem with consultants. I'm like I didn't know that at first and it was like oh my God, I need to. So every now and then and I think we talked about this, brian, but just in case any aspiring podcasters out there, I'll go and cut clips because every now and then I'll say something smart and I'll cut that clip out and I post that bad boy on LinkedIn and everything else to again to help people get a flavor for what they're going to be dealing with. And that may you know again once in a while. That's a smart thing and they'll think I got some kind of chops and I can bring some value. And so I believe a percent y'all need to do it, not just because of like the value I know there's a whole lot of like personal growth that comes from it because if you get into editing it, you'll start learning how you speak. It'll help you because of the repetition You'll get learn how to get clearer, faster, about communicating your ideas, about answering questions. It's a huge personal development tool that a lot of people don't talk about. But kind of.

Speaker 3:

I said it at the beginning and I think mission accomplished. Bryant, you and I got to hang out in person, even dance a little bit, and I'm like you're like a really freaking cool dude that I'd love to hang out with and just chill. Clearly you're going to have to be you don't surround yourself with scrubs. You said, well, I want to bring JD to come on, let's do it.

Speaker 3:

And so yes to JD's point like it's going to help you build relationships with people, and I hope I know some of the clips that we're going to be cutting out of this gives me the opportunity to say, hey, here's some like real freaking people that really give a damn. They are also building an app or building a software solution for the construction business, because I think that, again, talking about QuickBooks and what there may be ignoring or missing, I think developers and founders are missing that too. They're pushing their product and nobody knows the human beings behind the product, and one at a time. The question is this what is the promise you are intended to be? What is the promise?

Speaker 2:

Yes, we are.

Speaker 3:

Repeat that last part.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what is the promise you?

Speaker 2:

are intended to be Never heard. That quote we are intended to be. What is the promise? We are intended to be Control core as an individual.

Speaker 1:

Individual. Oh, I know this one, then Come on. Well, and maybe, if it's not, if I'm not answering it. But I guess the way I interpret that question is is, when I hear promise, I think of like guarantees, consistency, whatever, like you can count on this and then intended to be like with me at a core, I hope, or I can promise or I intend to be the same person wherever I'm at, like it doesn't matter if I'm at church or at work or in a ditch or hunting or playing sports, like I just hope to be the same person wherever I'm at. So I don't know if that answers the question.

Speaker 3:

Yes, solid answer, hell yes. What it made me think of is the time in my life that I couldn't be that Like I was a. I was a fake. I was a flake fraud poser everywhere I went, and so for somebody to aspire to that to, for some of us that ain't an easy thing. So phenomenal answer, thank you.

Speaker 2:

No, it's good, and I won't even try to top it. I just think that I know I was going to top it, so I was going to do something way better than yours, you should.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'd be proud of you, the promise that I am intended to be, and this goes for me. This is a deeper religious question for me, but my promise that I will always respect and love my fellow man is like, in the simplest way that I can say it and have a lot of as much charity as I can for for the people around me.

Speaker 1:

Brian's good at that. I'm a little bit more open to being a little more offensive at times, but we make sure we got Brian here to balance it out. He does a good job.

Speaker 3:

I think both of y'all are freaking awesome man. Did y'all have a good time?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, jesse, like I say, I can't thank you enough for being a mentor in this space for a very short amount of time that you and I have known each other. I feel like you've taken, you've made some serious efforts to like help us along, so I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3:

You're awesome man. Thank you guys for your time.