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Learnings and Missteps
The Learnings and Missteps Podcast is about unconventional roads to success and the life lessons learned along the way.
You will find a library of interviews packed with actionable take aways that you can apply as you progress on your career path.
Through these interviews you will learn about the buttons you can push to be a better leader, launch a business, and build your influence.
Find yourself in their stories and know that your path is still ahead of you.
Learnings and Missteps
Unlocking Your Authentic Voice with Jimmy Cannon
Overcoming Fear: Helping Leaders Speak with Confidence
In this episode of the Learnings and Missteps podcast, host Jesse interviews Jimmy Cannon, a voice and public speaking coach from the UK. Jimmy shares his journey from being a performer and singer to becoming a specialist in helping leaders speak without fear. The conversation covers the importance of energy, finding sincerity, and overcoming performance anxiety. Jimmy discusses his work with clients across various industries, helping them find their confidence and improve their communication skills. Key topics include the impact of mindfulness techniques, the concept of psychological flexibility, and the importance of being sincere rather than just authentic. The episode also includes listener shoutouts and personal anecdotes from both Jesse and Jimmy about their experiences with public speaking and leadership.
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage
00:43 Meet the Expert: Jimmy Cannon
04:15 Jimmy's Journey: From Performer to Coach
06:49 Understanding Performance Anxiety
09:06 Techniques to Overcome Speaking Fears
13:41 Real-Life Applications and Success Stories
27:47 The Power of Positive Thinking
28:11 Overcoming Life's Challenges
28:39 Embracing Opportunities
29:25 Building Confidence in Communication
30:55 Helping Professionals Speak Up
32:24 Voice and Confidence Connection
33:45 Success Stories and Client Transformations
39:35 Clarity, Precision, and Confidence
48:13 The Importance of Sincerity
55:16 Final Thoughts and Resources
Design the Life You have Always Wanted: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
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Do I do that? I'm not going to do that. Just do it, because it's either going to go wrong or it's going to go right, and then, as you said before, we're going to learn from that and we're going to. Yes, that's the key thing.
Speaker 2:What is going on L&M family. Back again, and this time I'm going to. For some of you, I know I'm going to get you a little nervous, because we're going into the number one fear that most people have and if you're in the game of leadership and understand the value of influence, you're going to want to take notes, like if you're driving right now, go ahead and listen to it and then come back, because today we have a specialist in helping leaders speak without fear, coming to us all the way from the UK. His name is Mr Jimmy Cannon. He's a voice and public speaking coach and I was like stalking him, doing the internet stalking checked out his YouTube channel, which you need to go check out after this one, because he's got a lot of really interesting insights into how people speak and their tone and their energy and where their voice is coming from, like all kinds of really powerful stuff that I know will help you elevate your leadership game.
Speaker 2:But before that, if this is your first time here, this is the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to see how real people just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. I'm Jesse, your selfish servant and we about to get to know Mr Jimmy Cannon. Mr Jimmy, how are you doing, sir?
Speaker 1:jesse, I'm very good. I'm just completely enthralled with your intro and your story and everything. It's fantastic. So I just want to be here and I'll tell you. What I didn't ask you is are we on video? Do I have to do my hair or is it just purely?
Speaker 2:you're beautiful, you're perfect. Okay, perfect for audio video. All of the above.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Well, it's lovely to be here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the opportunity of course I just I didn't think about this beforehand until right now. I'm like wait a minute. And I'm glad I did it, because it would have come out different, like I'm doing this, all this, like doing my thing in front of an expert, in front of a professional that helps people. They're like oh so I'm glad.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about it before. Not at all, I think. Here's I mean, can I just? Can I start? Can I just take the stage a little bit here? I mean straight away.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking, as soon as you came on online, your energy is just absolutely superb and it's mesmerizing, is your energy. It's absolutely superb and that's the key. So one thing is finding the energy we spoke about this a little bit before we started recording, didn't we? And just finding the energy to reflect the passion that you have for what you do, and it's evident that you have that in spades. As we say, I'm connecting to your industry as well, somehow, but that's incredible and the fact that you're actually doing. Nobody's going to criticize you if you're doing what you should be doing, and it's obvious that you're doing what you should be doing. So I'm not thinking for a second. I'm not judging you for a second. I'm thinking this for a second. I'm not judging you for a second. I'm thinking this is a fantastic opportunity to be here and share my experience and my views and methods with your audience, and I'm grateful for that. So here I am.
Speaker 2:Recognize my energy and it sounds like yeah. Between 6 am and 9 am. Most of the time people are saying like Jesse, turn it down bro.
Speaker 1:That's too much.
Speaker 2:I can't help it, I'm having fun Now. So you're in the business of helping leaders speak without fear, which I totally get it, and I know it's a super impactful service you provide. So the first question that came to my head is how did you discover the secret sauce about speaking without fear?
Speaker 1:Well, ok, so so I was working with people before covid, before what I call the dark times in London. Yes, some would argue it's still the dark times, but it depends which side of the fence you're on, I suppose Political. Let's not talk about that. So before COVID, I was working with people one-to-one and I was helping them. Actually, I was doing a lot of performing and I'm a singer by trade, if you like and I was doing lots of singing and performing. Obviously, covid hit All the theat singer by trade, if you like and I was doing lots of singing and performing. Obviously, covid hit, no, all the theaters in london. Everything shut down and, yeah, that's it. Bang. And I was incredibly lucky that my wife is still a teacher and she was getting some money coming in and we all suffered quite all of us, everybody in the world suffered, obviously, but you know particularly artists and performers because they had no way to perform and they couldn't do anything. So I I was also working with people one to one, but I was helping them project their voice, give that, give it change the variety of their tone. I actually helped them sustain and maintain their voice for longer, which was something that I was doing before COVID, as well as teaching singing. So I took my singing experience and skills, I suppose, into speaking.
Speaker 1:So in COVID I decided to do a master's in vocal pedagogy, because that was, I had loads of time, what else are you going to do? And so I ended up doing a master's. I ended up, a lot of people were coming to me. I remember having one client who came to me with. He said I saw I get like a, like a swallowing feeling in the throat. I thought this is fascinating.
Speaker 1:I had my first assignment was given to me. The brief was this is an academic ma that I did in voice pedagogy and I was, even though we learned quite a lot about the voice and the physiology of the voice etc. Which was one of the reasons that I did it, because I wanted to know more about the voice. I wasn't that. I mean you've got a lot of what we call geeks over here. I mean I don't know if that's a general, generalized word. So lots of geeky kind of people on this MA and I'm a bit of a geek, but not that much of a geek, and I wasn't that interested in the cricothroid muscle which is contracting on the dysphonial muscle, so I wasn't so interested in that.
Speaker 1:What I thought, right, I'm going to do a bit of research into this swallowing thing that was going on. So, looking back sorry, looking back I the research I did was this is this thing is called globus pharyngeus. So this is a thing that a condition that some people few, very few people have where they feel that they need to keep, they need to swallow, and it it comes from Roman times actually, where it was a sign of inverted commas madness. So people, if you had this feeling of swallowing, they would think you were just a madman in the village. So I think times haven't changed much.
Speaker 1:So one of my clients had this feeling and I did a bit of research into it and what it is is it's a somatic or physiological response to anxiety. So we all have right. So when we feel nervous, we rush our speech, our heart rate increases, we have sweaty palms, we start there's lots of physical stuff, the vocal tract, the larynx or the vocal tract, contracts and tightens and you get a dry throat, lots of symptoms like that that you feel. So that was really interesting to me and my mentor said to me why don't you, why don't you go down the performance anxiety and then I thought, oh, and then I found about, I found out about public speaking anxiety and what, how you introduced at the beginning. It is, I still think, apparently number three in the top feared things in the states. So I studied performance anxiety and straight into that, and then branched into public speaking anxiety and I ended up doing my masters and then afterwards studying behavioral therapy and specifically, exceptions and commitment therapy, because most of my clients I don't know why, but most of my clients and still do come to me with I think I've got a weak voice, I think I've got a quiet voice.
Speaker 1:I don't speak up. I can't speak. I don't feel like I can speak up. This isn't your issue, by the way, jesse. You, it's not nothing. I can't help you with anything, with anything. You know, I think you're fine, I think you're gonna be okay, yeah, so, um, so that's what I do, that's where I am, and here I am and now and I had to get this we all have to learn how to do everything online. I had to learn about zoom, still learning about zoom and everything else. I had to put a website together, and so so I did that, I studied that and this is what I help people do. I help people manage their anxiety through mindfulness techniques and I help them improve the quality of their voice. To feel and sound more confident in the moment is what I do, which.
Speaker 1:I absolutely love doing. I'm going to stop talking, shall I stop talking now.
Speaker 2:You're good, oh man, so much, and I'm gonna dive in multiple places. What you just said was in the moment right, that's what I heard you from speaking anxiety and deal with all the things in the moment, which is a nuance that I want to explore. Yeah, um, that will be important for our listeners, because when I'm hearing a coach, a voice coach or speaking coach, I'm thinking you're going to help me understand what to do with my hands when I'm talking and how to posture. We're going to do the L&M family member shout out and this one comes from the tick tock this. I love his name, crack pack. Thank you, crack Pack, for leaving this comment. I love his name, crack Pack. Thank you, crack Pack, for leaving this comment. He said dude, you got really good leadership tips, especially for the construction industry that one.
Speaker 2:But the whole point is when you get a chance or feel the urge to leave a comment, send a DM, leave a review, do a share, all of the things. I super, super appreciate it and it gives me the opportunity to shout you out again in the future, like that's what first comes to mind. But what you're saying is like sure, and in the moment, so in your stuff, like what was it? I'm sure you're doing research, you got to interact with a bunch of people and maybe you saw some common themes of like, oh there's, this is something that a lot of people struggle with. What was it? That like not necessarily seeing the problem, what helped you feel good and say that's what I really want to help people with.
Speaker 1:That's a great question. I love that, and so give me a couple of seconds to process that I love. This is what I love. I love helping people find their true. This is going to sound really hippie, and can I go down that road?
Speaker 2:Come on, bring it, bring it.
Speaker 1:I love helping people find their true selves, and find their true selves in that they appreciate what they can do and what they have done and their skills and their experience. So that is the main thing and I find, jesse, that I find that I'm yes, I can help you with the voice, I can give you some techniques and some skills to manage the anxiety, but what actually helps is us doing some coaching together, coaching them to really appreciate their worth. That's actually, if I think about it, that's what I really love doing is finding their why. I suppose, to quote Simon Sinek their purpose in life, what their values are, and it stems from acceptance and commitment therapy. But really it's about what is your passion? What do you love doing? Why are you doing what you're doing? And if you can keep going on that path, then nothing should stop you from doing what you love doing.
Speaker 1:The thing that is stopping you isn't real. This is like for me, it's like this is a yeah, this is a like a explosion when I found this out, which is that our emotions and our thoughts or feelings are the same thing. They are just feelings, our thoughts, our thoughts. They are, and our feelings are feelings. They are nothing else and we are fused. So part of acceptance, commitment therapy, is like psychological flexibility. So flexibility, so it's being able to in any moment realize that I don't have to react to that emotion. I don't have to, I can acknowledge it, and this is where the acceptance comes in. I can acknowledge it, see that it's there, but I don't have to surrender to it, and that's really vital.
Speaker 1:So when people say to me I've got the thought that if I speak up in a meeting, if I put my hand up and speak up, then I'm going to be judged, I'm going to feel judged, I'm going to be judged. There's a lot of people in the room, they're staring at me and that's just a feeling, yes, and you can control that. And that's what we I love working with people on that because it's quite and it's a quick. It's a quick switch, it's a mindset switch that literally the next day not all the time, but I will often get somebody saying to me or sending me a video or an email saying Jimmy, I had that conversation with a guy that I can't stand speaking to because he's a, he's a something, and he's nepotistic or he's arrogant or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:I I just don't. I don't click with him at all, but I had a conversation. It went really well. I controlled the environment that we're in, I controlled the conversation. I asked the right questions and I got the answers that I needed and we moved on. That was purely because he made that switch in his head, which I just love that.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, I can imagine. So it seems to me like you're getting a whole lot of fulfillment from the work that you do now, absolutely Wow.
Speaker 2:Absolutely understanding what brought me fulfillment, that the doors blew wide open. Before that it was always hard. Now you you said it's almost, it's almost like a switch right, and I see this, I imagine I see this in the States and I want to see you see that over there on your side. I haven't met a single person, except for maybe super arrogant people like me. They completely understand how much value that they have. Almost everybody that I meet undervalues the life experience, the energy, the lessons that they've learned, severely undervalue what they just bring to the table transferable value. Do you see the same?
Speaker 1:thing over there all the time. All the time I do and this is really interesting because we all have a different experience and something that I'm learning to do I mean these, quite frankly, in these podcasts and my, my social media is to tell my story, and I thought quite recently actually probably six months ago that I don't, didn't really have a story.
Speaker 1:I I I right right I still, in a way, I still think I don't have a story because I don't feel that I've suffered particularly, but it's all relative, isn't it? I have suffered, but I've also gained, and we've all got the roller coaster of life. We've all gone through the roller coaster of life and we, you and I, were speaking about. Wouldn't it be great to be able to start at the beginning, where we are now?
Speaker 2:With the knowledge, can you imagine?
Speaker 1:Can you imagine I tell this to my daughter, if you would just listen to me, because I know so much more than you could possibly imagine, but of course she's 11, and she doesn't listen to me.
Speaker 2:And she wants to do her own thing. Right, she's never gonna listen to me. She won't, she won't. We gotta have the learning scars. Yeah, friend of mine said like it's the learning scars that you need, like, sure, the knowledge and information, yeah, but without the scar it doesn't mean anything, like you know, damn it, you're right, exactly, exactly, okay. So I want to do some time traveling, sure, before COVID hit and like COVID totally transformed everything for me. Similarly to you, like I was an internal consultant for a large construction firm here in the States, yep, and I was like I ain't doing those teams calls and zoom crap, like we need to be in person.
Speaker 2:It's the only way to do it. And then COVID hit. They said you need to work from home and figure out how to do your job virtually like oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:And that was the catalyst for me starting this podcast right, I needed an yeah now and then, like the rest is, history totally shifted my career, like in my, my quality of life. Even so, you were down, what I understood down about your performer, singer you're the voice coach at the time. Yeah, and kovid hit. You said, okay, I need to go, I'm going to do something, let me go learn, let me get masters, yeah, and that kind of opened up another path. And then there was another little sidestep from there and then so like maybe I going to ask this clearly Was that planned? Like Ovid was not, but from going to get your master's to the business you do now, yeah, no, I remember now I did my master's.
Speaker 1:What's the word? I delayed I would do. I delayed my doing the master's it because the code come up and I originally initially did it before I started in 2018 and I did it because I had I got offered a job teaching at a university, westminster university in london, teaching. I was a voice for westminster university and I said to my and I'm quite being quite frank with you all the time, but I've got to be very frank with you and say that I was self-taught as a musician, as a singer, and I mean I had some singing lessons but I didn't know really what the hell I was doing. I was just, you know, I ended up going to some singing lessons at the age of 28. And because one of my, a friend of mine, who's a great piano player and producer, said Jimmy, look, I think you're straining your voice, I think you need to do, you need to get some singing lessons. And I took that quite personally and went and got some singing lessons, right, but I didn't know anything really about the voice how to use the abdominal muscles, how to create sublateral pressure, how to use the abdominal muscles had to create sub little pressure, how to create different resonances, how to lower my larynx or keep my larynx flexible. When I wanted to sing high in chest voice, I had no idea what chest voice, head voice, full test, none of that had no idea, absolutely no idea. So I was just singing. What I did was which I I used to do a lot, and I'm very good at doing it, I must say, because, which is this?
Speaker 1:I used to mimic singers, right, so I can sound like certain singers, and I still do the same thing when I'm coaching and I'm doing voice coaching, because a lot of people say oh, I want to sound like this singer, this speaker. I can't necessarily sound like them. I can't sound like obama. I wish I could, but, for instance, or, or I can do trump, maybe you know, but um, yeah, or yeah, so, but I can.
Speaker 1:What I can do is I can analyze what they do I'm kind of going to teach it but I can analyze what they do in their voice, or how they do it and how they create that, that delivery. It's not just about the sound of their voice, but it's also how they use the pace and the pause and their total qualities, etc. So I didn't. I started doing the ma because I wanted to learn more about the physiology of the voice, but then covid hit and I delayed it for a year and I ended up working with clients online that were as I said. I had a client come to me as a and he had problems with his throat, so I just went down that kind of rabbit hole of research and I ended up doing performance anxiety and I had no idea there was performance anxiety or public speaking anxiety. Yes, isn't that crazy. I just realized that actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, and there's another side of the coin, right Like when I'm interacting with people that are self-proclaimed as shy people, I think they're the most interesting creatures in the universe. Because I don't understand it. Now, here's one of those lessons for the 11-year-olds out there that you're not going to listen to. If you get extremely curious about a shy person and start asking them a bunch of questions, you're not going to get any answers because they're shy, like it's. They have a response. So I don't understand that. And so, like the performance anxiety, I don't understand it. It's like, what do you mean? Like attention in front of a thousand people? Hell, what do I got to do? I'm in. I don't understand, like how it would be less than amazing. The other side of that coin is what's obvious to me is not obvious to others, and so I'm saying that yeah because, yeah, does it land like that?
Speaker 2:when you're working with people, it's clear as day how impactful they are, what, what their message, where it comes from, and how transformational it can be. For others, you can see it and it's obvious to you, but for them it's like the furthest thing from their consciousness, and so being able to see that and showing them what you see sounds like that's a part of your work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Very much. The interesting thing is, you wouldn't believe it, but I am actually introvert. So so I really hate social situations. I hate going to parties. I hate meeting people. I'm not please. If you invite me to a party, I'll come. I'm sure I'd love to come to your parties. I'm sure they're a guest, but um no, so I. I. I'm sure they're a gas, but um no, so I, I but so.
Speaker 1:But my performance is definitely a mark I put on show, so I'm a professional as in I'm putting on. I wouldn't say I'm so that I'm very much aware of the theatrical side of things when you're putting on a show now. So I'm either working with people that they're experts in something but but they might have anxiety to. So OK, let me give you an idea. Your industry is the construction industry, so that's your niche, the audience you speak to, so I do.
Speaker 1:I have a client at the moment who is in that industry. He's in Melbourne in Australia and he is fine when he's on the job, he's fine. He is fine when he's on the job, he's fine. He's fine when he's on the job. He's fine when he's got tools in his hand. But take the tools away from him, which is the same thing as the mask, the theatrical mask. The same thing as if I put my suit on and I go to, I get on stage and I start singing as a jazz singer, then I'm, that's my mask.
Speaker 1:But if I take my suit off, I'm a very different person, and this is very common with performers. That they are. You think they're going to be the same person. They were on stage and they're not. And there's people get disappointed right when he has to put his tools down and speak to maybe a member of the public, particularly somebody up the line, hierarchically so founders or CEOs of the company or other companies. That he's working, he is purely his, and this is only one example but that he's. It's purely his perception of how he feels about how he sounds, how he comes across. And here's a really interesting thing he has some old friends and I'm really making sure that I'm being very careful here and it's confidential I'm not going to be mentioning any names and it's a large world and I think it's probably unlikely that anyone will know who.
Speaker 1:It is right, so okay. But he does have some old friends and they have banter right and when he's in their company he feels obliged. Even though he's 20 years on now and he's got his own company, he's got employees, etc. He feels that he needs to continue that banter and he doesn't have the kind of the confidence to do that in a normal situation. And that's what makes him anxious is going back in time and realizing that he that when he felt that he couldn't really compete with the rest of the guys in the crew, so yeah, and you must hear this all the time that type of thing.
Speaker 1:Now he's got a, now he's in management, as it were, he's now got to speak to the big chiefs and he doesn't have the confidence to do so, mainly because of that. So we've been working on his voice, we've been working on his confidence and how he comes across. The main thing here, jesse, if I may, is his sincerity and, just allowing so, I use the word sincerity rather than authenticity. I feel that authenticity is used over yes, really I agree yeah.
Speaker 1:So sincerity for me is a better sort of adjective to use or description to use about how you represent yourself in the most sincere way, regardless of what the reaction or perception of others might be, and I think that's the key thing. There's no point in trying to put on a mask unless you're on stage, like me, unless you are in the theater and you have to put on a character. So, yes, you know, be yourself. I think that's come out of your head, and be yourself is the thing, and it's really hard to do sometimes yes, oh, a hundred percent so there's.
Speaker 2:So there's two buckets that my brain is bouncing between. One is like how many customers if you don't already have them? You should have right Clients. The other is this thing that the story that we tell ourselves. We create this list of chaos, failure and like cataclysmic torture, but it's all pretend, it's all made up, it's just what I'm thinking. And then we behave, or, to use the word used earlier, we respond in such a way as if it's fact, as if it's true. But we can like, since we're running crazy with our imagination on the negative side of things, the negative potential, we could also use our imagination and create a list of amazing things that could possibly happen which are also not true, and then it's like let's go find out which is true. So just kind of balancing it and I think you helping them with that is amazing of balancing it and I think you helping them with that is amazing.
Speaker 1:But I suppose that the significant difference there would be if you're talking negative and positive attitude mindset wise, it's, yeah, more likely to go. So, whatever you, your mind is focusing on, this is this? Whatever mind, whatever you're focusing on, if you're thinking negative thoughts, negative things are going to then happen, and vice versa, if you thinking positive thoughts, it's more likely that positive things are going to happen. It's very difficult to do. Life gets in the way. I've got kids and, you know, wife and challenges and mortgage and everything gets in the way. And the roof needs doing, the fridge needs fixing and I'm waiting 10 days for a part to arrive, for some engineer to come and fix it. There we are, so life gets in the way. It's frustrating, but that's interesting about having a positive mindset and thinking in that way. I think that's definitely the way forward, because the negative side of things even though and even though the positive things are just feelings and emotions at least you're not going to be avoiding opportunities, which is what most people do.
Speaker 1:So yes right if you were, if you weren't avoiding situations, you were just kind of diving and jumping in the deep end and what for whatever, what, regardless of whatever was going to happen, that's actually the best thing to do. So just to do it, rather than to think, oh no, what happens if I say this or I do that? I'm not going to do that. Just do it, because it's either going to go wrong or it's going to go right. And then, as you said before, we're going to learn from that and we're going to yes, that's the key thing, yeah, yeah, and we're going to. That's the key thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the learning. So back to the, the I would say the oceans and oceans of people that you can serve. What I'm getting is hell. I'm thinking of like young professionals, right, cause I did have that apprehension or hesitation to speak like out in the field on the job side, back when I used to like do real work, I didn't have a problem talking to my people, holding a meeting, calling people, like it was this, you just got to make things happen. But when I had to go to the office for a meeting, like in my brain there was these expectations of a vocabulary that I needed to use and I did have that and I got over it, right, I was like, oh, there is there hell, there's some people as dumb as I am in here. I can do this. And then, and so when I'm like, if I think of stratus, right, stratosphere, different levels, when I'm in a different environment where people dress differently and speak differently, you can help people with that, like in the service that you provide. So it's not like, necessarily this is messy.
Speaker 2:I don't have to be doing a tedx talk in order for you to help me. Would that be an accurate?
Speaker 1:absolutely, and I that's what I started doing with people on that level of already professional speakers and I thought that's, I thought that's what I was going to be, who I was going to be serving, and I still do the odd person like with, like matt, who just want to top up, they just want to improve, improve themselves and self-development. But I generally and I'm actually more interested in in, quite frankly, in in working with people that find it very challenging to speak to certain groups of people, whether it be a group of people or a certain type of group of people that they whether it's a hierarchy, it could be that you're I had. Actually a couple of years ago I had a foreman who was fine on the phone, he was fine one-to-one and this is very common to the people I work with but every morning he had to go out on the floor as the foreman. Now I can only imagine this, because you can probably see with my nails and hands, you can probably see that I haven't done a decent and actual physical job in my life. So I can't relate to you on that level, I'm afraid.
Speaker 1:But he told me, and very explained the whole situation, that he had to go out on the floor and do a. I forgot what he called it, but it was in the morning. He would like it was. This is health and safety. He had to do it in the morning every morning. Hi guys, can you come over, can you come over?
Speaker 1:And he just didn't have the voice. People were saying, hey, I can't hear you. You know all this. So he didn't have power in his voice. He felt really nervous, he felt really shy and just felt that everybody was staring at him and judging him and basically taking the mickey out of him. So that's what we worked on and we worked on his comments about that and therefore the interesting thing is that it's not really about the voice. Most people come to me and I'm listening to them and I'm thinking there's nothing wrong with your voice and actually, unless you've got a dysphonia or nodules or polyps, you need to go and see an ent. Unless you've got, why are you here? So but actually what I've? I've stopped saying I can't help you, because actually I can now help them, because it's not really about the voice, it's about confidence or their lack of self-worth. Ironically, the voice finds its own confidence when you find confidence to speak. Finding that confidence helps your voice to be more and more flowing and therefore more resonant and therefore more projecting.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think you used the perfect word. It is a miracle like finding that switch or that button and that you help people do that, cause I can. I can imagine that you have watery allergy type moments, meaning your eyes water well up people that say thank you, I got the promotion. Thank, thank you. I closed the deal. Thank you, I had a standing ovation. Yeah, like, how like all the time?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, all the time, all the time I have. How long have we? How long do we have you?
Speaker 2:start reading them off.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah, no, I'm just I've got a story, I've got a story, but if we've got, if we haven't come, on, please.
Speaker 1:I want to hear yes well, I can't again, I can't tell you, I can't tell you the company. But imagine cfo of a company I was working with last year he was working with I think this is very common. So, like you, he worked from the bottom. He was in security, started office security and 25, 30 years ago and worked his way up, learned all the skills all had, did all the jobs and learned everything about the company. Going through the weeds, going through the hierarchy, going through the gatekeepers, he eventually became cfo, which is wow, no qualifications and really quite if I told you what the company is, you would wouldn't believe it. He was at the point where he was. The offer was on the table to retire. He would have had a wonderful his, everything would be paid for, everything would have been sorted, had a nice house, he could go on holiday and he was in London. But the other option was that he was going to maybe work for another company in the same industry which was in Europe and he was headhunted and he was offered something around there. So it was an option.
Speaker 1:Now the challenge that he was having was that the company, our family-run company, and they have been since the beginning, 30, 40 years ago. Now there's a brother in the company and that brother has no experience in the company. He's just been brought up it's completely nepotism right and he thinks, obviously thinks the sun shines out of his backside and therefore knows what needs to be done. Now my client had not only that relationship to deal with but has or had a monotone voice and spoke very quickly. So very intelligent, very skilled, very experienced, and he also had to do quite a lot of media interviews etc. And that was a worry because there was a lot, if you and if you knew the company, you'd understand. But there was a lot of health and safety involved. So and there was a lot of news coverage around the health and safety and he had to be the ambassador for the company in that sense and he his tone of voice, really wasn't that empathic. So we were working on the empathy of his voice, the pace of his voice and the tonality of his voice, to create more empathy and to slow down as well as in meetings, try to understand the relationship between him and this other, the brother of the company or of the family, and how he would deal with that. So we worked very much on the imposter syndrome that he was feeling because he felt that he couldn't live up to or really compete with his other character within that environment.
Speaker 1:And the good news is that he decided not to retire, he decided not to move to Europe. And six months ago he emailed me and said Jimmy, listen, thanks for the sessions. They were fantastic. I've I'm now ceo of the company absolutely fantastic. So I was so bowled over. Now I'm not taking I'm not taking complete credit for it. He's a very strong individual and it was just somebody to for him to realize that he doesn't need to leave, he doesn't need to stop, he can continue because of how he feels about himself in within that environment, with that person, and I think, yeah, it's great, isn't it? So that's, I don't know, I've come up with the question, but but that's, yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2:Again. That's why I kind of, when you said miracle, I'm like, yes, because what I think you do is in the work, like working with the client, you help them discover the next level or the next phase of what's possible for them, and that's a miracle, right, Like, like there's, we get to these. I think we get to these blocks in our minds, just in life in general, where it's like okay, well, five years ago I had this plan and I'm here and, man, it took me five years to and I'm here. So we can't really, I don't really see another level. Like it's just like this is where I'm at and the work that you're doing, with the anxiety and the confidence and the acceptance, and that's a big one. All of a sudden the ceiling goes away. Yeah, and that's profound because we're all walking around with some kind of ceiling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I'm sorry to interrupt. No, absolutely. I think the thing with him, the ceiling for him, was the boundaries and limitations that this other person and then other members of the founders of the company and the hierarchy of that were sort of creating this as, as you said, ceiling that he felt he couldn't just get. He couldn't get through because of his feeling of imposter syndrome that he didn't have, he didn't have the family connection, he didn't go to the right school, he didn't speak the right terminology, but actually he was the right man for the job.
Speaker 2:Yes, and when he realized that see everything opened up yeah, and that's what you're helping them see, like you're helping them see the greater version of themselves. It could, yes, exactly like that. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. Now I was peeking on your website and I saw one of the components on there about clarity and precision, and I I have an assumption here, but I want to ask like which comes first? Is it confidence and acceptance or clarity and precision in our, in the way we communicate?
Speaker 1:That's interesting, I think, a lot of the time when we're not confident because we don't feel that we have the clarity or the articulation to articulate what we want to say. So I believe that I've started coaching before, I've started working on the confidence before I work on the voice, and I felt obliged. I still feel obliged because most people come to me about the voice. So we do start with the voice, but very quickly we get to the confidence and that's generally really, because how many people do you know that you cannot understand what they're saying at all unless American English or British English is not their first language, which is something that I do deal with. I'm not an accent coach, but I do have some clients that English is not their native language. So that is definitely. There's definitely a barrier, definitely a limitation, and that's something that, even though I'll give you a story, I have somebody I'm working with now.
Speaker 1:He works for, I think I can say, the company, because it's huge. He works for apple. He's a it guy with apple. He's indian, english he's works, he lives in the states, he's indian and but he he feels that he's not getting his point across or he's not being heard in meetings, generally speaking. He came to me initially thinking that it was his accent. But really, how many people in the States who are, say, indian of inheritage, can you not understand? Very few or very few, native and non-native speakers can you not understand? Because they've made a considerable effort to come to the states or the uk, wherever it is to make an effort to most people? Let's not get into that. But most people have made a considerable effort to integrate into the culture and communicate there into the culture because they have to work and I'm absolutely not diminishing their heritage and their accents and their culture.
Speaker 1:I think that's incredibly important and I wouldn't want anybody to get rid of their accent incredibly important and I wouldn't want anybody to get rid of their accent. But I can. I can understand 98 of what he, 99.6 of what he says. There's the occasional word and there's, with indian english speakers, it's the t and the d and the retroflex tongue. That's the couple of things that might be something that might be a barrier to him in his communication. But most of all it's his lack of confidence in himself that is the problem. It's not the voice, it's not the articulation. So, to answer your question, eventually I work on the confidence, and then the presence, and then the voice. That would be the linear approach that I would use.
Speaker 2:No, I one, I love the stories because I know people can connect to the stories, right. I mean, I'm in San Antonio, Texas. I was brought up only speaking English and my mom she was brought up speaking Spanish, was her primary language, but they decided, no, we're not going to teach you Spanish because of the problems that they had in school for speaking Spanish. Like it was a bad thing. Back then it was a good thing and now, who the hell knows, with all the other stuff that's going on, but we won't talk about that. I can understand folks that speak in Spanish, English, jumping between languages. I can understand people with heavy accents where I struggle understanding people back to the clarity and the precision people that I would. That I label as very low confidence, because they use a million words and before they ever say a damn thing, it's like what did you just? Was that a question? Was that a statement? Was that a burp? Like I don't know Cause it was so many syllables that were not necessary that I say, Ooh, there's a confidence thing there.
Speaker 1:I'm just about to forgive my ignorance, but I'm just about to do a video. I've just decided that I want to do so. The client asked me to do a review on somebody I did. Actually, I did a review on Andrew Tate, but that's another.
Speaker 2:I saw that.
Speaker 1:No, I watched that today but I was quite interested and I thought it might be quite sort of newsworthy and sort of what's the word I look for? I can't think of the word, but now in the present, being the new mayor of New York, I can't remember his name for the life of me, but he I've watched. I want to do a review of his speaking and because he's evidently a good communicator and I think that seems to be one of the reasons that he's evidently a good communicator and I think that seems to be one of the reasons that he's got in is because he can communicate and he can represent through his communication the community and that seems to be the reason that he's got it. I don't know much about the politics. I should do. I'm very ignorant with the politics.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately I skipped the headlines really. So that's my father-in-law always goes on to me about that. I should know more about the culture and the news going on, but life gets in the way. But I want to do a review of him. I've watched a couple of his videos. He's very diligent in what he says.
Speaker 1:It's very purposeful and that's the key. He's obviously also practiced it a lot, because he's probably done hundreds of interviews like this and that's practice, and the more you do that, the better you get at it. So that's the thing that's really interesting for me is that he's very purposeful and clear about his message and that's the key thing. And you're absolutely right, somebody that lacks that purposefulness, if you like, are going to use that type of language, that type of speech language, filler words, et cetera, so that unfortunately undermines the expertise and the intelligence when you're speaking to people. So it might be an inflection, it might be their vocal creak, it might be a filler word, it might be an accent. Unfortunately, it might be just the way that you pre-preface what you're going to say, as you suggested, but in in various filler words or arbitrary syllables that you know that crop up, and if you can't get to the point quickly, then people are going to be judging you on that.
Speaker 2:So that's really that's the key thing, yeah yeah, yeah, I luckily again I've progressed through a bunch of different things and or different, we'll say uh, demographics professionally, and I was an installer out there doing installing plumbing systems, cussing smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, like I was one of the got promoted to foreman superintendent, spent more time in the office and I'm like ooh.
Speaker 1:I don't.
Speaker 2:Oh well, you know what. They're kind of human like me. Then I went and that was like a local business here in the San Antonio area. The next job I got was working for one of the biggest contractors in the country here. The next job I got was working for one of the biggest contractors in the country here and I totally in my brain it was going to be this group of like the titans of industry with the highest level of intellect. It always every word they use counted and it was sharp and it was empowering and there were some pretty talented people there. But I'm like, oh wow, like I can hang with these, like they're kind of human, just like me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was in that big step that I thought was going to be. I really honestly expected to completely fail and be fired within a year and then said, oh, I can actually bring value and help people in a meaningful way. When I came to terms with I don't have to try to sound like anybody else.
Speaker 1:I act.
Speaker 2:That's actually misplaced energy If I just conserve that energy. And you use the word? It wasn't a? Oh gosh, it wasn't authentic. What use the word? It wasn't uh, oh gosh, it wasn't authentic. What was the word you used? Sincere? Sincere, yeah, if I just give myself permission to be sincerely, yeah, you me, absolutely. Yeah, I'm gonna do it and see what happens. And my goodness, mr j, like when I did that and the first time, like I saw the way the vps, right, all the vps of the different business units across the central united states, how they responded, I'm like I I think I'm.
Speaker 1:This is absolutely and that's amazing. So again, two or three things. Here's I unpack this.
Speaker 1:I'd love to that expectation for you when you were introduced to that circle of people yes that group was that you were going to be down the ladder, so to speak, socially or whatever it might be. So that's that, that's purely your expectation of what that would be. But what you didn't realize perhaps at the time, if I may, is that you were perfectly justified to be there because you had been promoted. And you've been promoted for a reason because you have the skills to be where, yes, you were, and they're where you are now, and otherwise you wouldn't be there. If someone is at the cusp of wanting to be somewhere, well then they might need to work on a few things, but if you're already there and you're struggling, well, that's definitely worth.
Speaker 2:You know, looking inside, Right, yep, yes, nice, right, nice, yeah, mm-hmm, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay, yeah, yes, absolutely, yeah, yes, yes, this is dad. Oh, man, but that's a beautiful data point, right, it's because he plants in your head like he's memorable. You can't forget him. Now, is he being sincere or not? Who cares? Plants in your head Like he's memorable, like you can't forget him. What now? Is he being sincere or not? Who cares? You can't forget him. Like.
Speaker 2:I get people that think I'm being insincere, like it's so often because, like, I'm on the podcast, I do live streams, and then I meet people in real life and they're like, oh, my God, you're the same. Like, what are you talking about? They're like I just like you're in, you're the same, like the way you show up on the thing. You're the same in real life, like, how do you do it? It's like coffee man, I drink a lot of coffee. And the way to go back to the sincerity, I think it's for them like, oh, that you are sincere. You're not playing a role here and then taking the mask off, like you said earlier. Right, yes, yes, yes, yep, yep, yep, yep. That's a goal. No, no, yes, yeah, you're not a tag team. We'll take days. You'll get day one, I'll get day two. That would be amazing, oh man, okay, so where do I mean? I'm assuming I think you said you've got hell. You're international, you're coaching people from Australia. You've had a client here from the States. So if somebody said, oh, my goodness, this is what I need, how do they get a hold of you? Nice Good, jimmycannoncom. I'll make sure we put that in the in the show notes. Yes, yes, absolutely, and I'm going to include your youtube, the link to your youtube channel, because it is something like and I don't know if this is a good thing, maybe it's a bit of a threat, mr cannon, but I'm I like watching YouTube in the morning, not watching. I'll just let YouTube channels play in the morning while I'm journaling and kind of planning my day out. And I love the way you're doing analysis of other people like well-known, maybe popular, famous personalities, famous personalities, and you're analyzing their speech and like the physical part of it and the cadence and the tone and I'm like, ooh, this is, I'm going to be consuming me more of that. And L&M family, y'all need to do it too, especially if you want to elevate your game and influence people, to transform your life and their life. Now are you ready for the grand finale question, mr Jimmy? I know you are because the work that you do, I recognize is like, transforms the lives of individuals and transforms the lives of the people that they love and care about, and because of that I know you're ready for this question. So here it is. What is the promise you are intended to be? Absolutely, I'll give you the background on the question. So it was actually.
Speaker 2:I just celebrated nine years of sobriety three days ago, thank you and I was in rehab the last time and one of the clients, one of the counselors, told me. He said Jesse, you're up here playing games. You don't have a problem admitting that you have a problem. He said your problem is you haven't accepted. And I said what's the difference? And he says you haven't accepted that you will never become the promise you are intended to be if you continue living life this way. And in that moment I knew of the aspirations, the hopes, the dreams that I had for me. I could feel the aspiration, hopes and dreams that my mom had for me, had for me. I could replay all the disappointment that I and hope that I stole from people because I wasn't on the path that I was supposed to be, which is to become the promise that I am.
Speaker 2:Does that help? Yep, yes. The contribution or impact you're going to have on the galaxy, okay, yes. Legacy yep, sure, thank you. Yeah, and you know what's beautiful is. You're doing it right, Like that's what you do, and you're going to continue to do that. Amazing, beautiful, well, did you have fun? Ah, yes, excellent, there we go. It was medicinal. Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end. Excellent, there we go. Link in there. You just click that and you can download the PDF. And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self-destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate you sharing. That increases the likelihood that it's going to help one more person, and if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be. Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.