The Hidden Cost of Settling for Mediocrity: Why 'Good Enough' Isn't Enough with Scott Evans

Jesse hosts the Learnings and Missteps podcast and interviews Scott Evans, founder of Scott Evans Speaks, about mental health in the construction field as “operational integrity” and “invisible PPE,” emphasizing a 360-degree safety culture that extends beyond the jobsite gate. They discuss the disconnect between corporate, compliance-focused tools like apps and HR videos versus the field reality that trust and real conversations—often one-on-one on site—drive help-seeking, while stigma and policing language can shut people down. Scott shares lived experience with family suicide, trauma, and his own suicide attempt, reframing it as wanting a “way up,” and argues that prevention has ROI through reduced shutdowns, turnover, and insurance impacts. Jesse highlights Scott’s free bilingual “five lifesaving tools” field guide (notice, ask, share, connect, act) and the need for jobsite champions. 

Connect with Scott on LinkedIn

Check out Scott Evans Speaks

00:00 Donuts Over Hotlines

00:30 Meet Scott Evans

03:23 Operational Integrity Explained

07:02 Invisible PPE Concept

10:13 Apps vs Field Trust

13:45 Training Shift In Culture

17:17 Talking Is Hard

20:41 Stop Policing Words

23:43 Champions On The Jobsite

26:11 Scott’s Internal Fall

29:57 Family Impact and Addiction

32:07 Why He Speaks Up

34:57 Choose Tomorrow Mindset

37:05 Making Change While Working

41:07 Jobsite Champions Explained

45:08 Five Lifesaving Tools

47:05 Connect and Get Involved

49:16 Prevention Is ROI

52:54 Beating Scarcity Thinking

57:02 The Promise to Be

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Transcript

Donuts At 2 A.M. And Trust

SPEAKER_03 0:00

That guy is not going to pick up a phone and watch an HR video. That guy's not going to dial a number for the most part. But you know what he will do? If I'm out there on a port at 2 a.m. and I'm bringing donuts and coffee and I can see this guy's having a struggle and there's no one around while we're waiting on the next truck to pour out.

unknown 0:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

That guy tells me he's got an issue. Next thing you know, I'm like that guy's closest brother.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

What is going on, LM family? Back again. And this time, I'm hoping, or rather, I should warn you, we're going to be talking about some real serious stuff. Our guest today is a construction industry change agent. And if you haven't noticed, those are the type of people I want to introduce you to because they give fuel to me and they're all working to leave the industry better than we found it. He is helping people see that mental health is a matter of operational integrity. And I love that combination of words because, hell yes, and hopefully we'll find out what that means so that you can go and like lead the charge or champion the charge at least. He is the founder of Scott Evans Speaks, and his name is Scott Evans. We met through LinkedIn. We're going to learn a whole bunch about him. But first, if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to see front row seat, amazing human beings just like you, sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know Mr. Scott. Mr. Scott, how are you doing, my friend?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Good, Jesse. I can't tell you what an honor. Just in the last six weeks of following you or meeting you and our few conversations, I mean, I can't tell you how much respect I've got for not only the energy level that you seem to bring to each conversation or clip, right? Yeah, but just the raw, like sincere passion. So for us to have aligned and for me to be here, much respect. And I'm very proud.

What Operational Integrity Means

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, man. Thank you, brother. And I it was the thing that caught my attention, right? I hope people don't get tired of me here saying like LinkedIn social media, because I'm not getting any like residual pay from them. But the reason I'm such an advocate for it is because it puts me in touch with freaking amazing people. And it was, I can't remember what the posts said, but you had posted something about some real shit that we're dealing with in our industry. And I said, Oh, and then of course I went in and stalked you a little bit. I said, Oh, this guy's for real. We need to talk. And then we ended up talking. So, and that from my perspective, it seemed like you were doing this forever and ever. I know me, people say, Oh, you but I was like, No, I just started. But the reality is, we've been doing our life as long as we've been alive. We're just now starting to share it, share our lessons, transform them into value. And so that's exactly what I got from you, bro. And I'm happy to have this conversation and enlighten the LM family member and highlight you, brother. So I gotta I like to start off with the simple question. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Okay, so how is mental health a matter of operational integrity?

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Yeah, so obviously that's uh from your original story, you were talking about a dirt guy, right? Those are terms that probably aren't thrown around in the trailer per se, unless there's a kickoff meeting or a boss's rep or an owner's rep or something going on. Well, there's a couple aspects of the operational integrity or the story is in that I think it depends on kind of the audience that you're speaking with. So what I've kind of learned in bringing this out is there's an old guard, there's a corporate mentality, there's a big age gap, I think, between what we see in the field and what we see in the leadership. And corporate intent is pure and sincere, and that they're trying to give us the best tools that we can have. Look at PPE from the glasses and the gloves, all those things continue to evolve, right? We're throwing money at it to try to focus on the things that we can see. What I've experienced and even lived is I came up with a term called invisible PPE because those are the things that you can't really see unless you have that vision or that insight, or someone gives you that opportunity to go, hey, take a look at this. So kind of a long-winded way to get back to what you were asking. Operational integrity is, I think, a different way to look at PPE and traditional safety. Okay, whether it's on the job site and then it it transponds beyond the gate. So it's more of a 24-7 type focus. Because I'll I always hear in all the safety meetings and the stand-owns and the toolbox talks, be your brother's keeper. Let's make sure you get home the same way you came. Right. Well, I want to make sure that you come back to work as well. Yes, same way that you came. So I think that's what they mean, but that's not necessarily where a lot of the resources have been pointed at, and uh the statistics are staggering for suicide, yep, mental health challenges and issues, and that's a high-risk environment. So operational integrity is kind of, I think, an all-encompassing way of trying to elicit a corporate ear to sort of just layman talk.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, yeah. So here's what I heard. Tell me if I did it, if I got it wrong. Operational integrity sounds to me like saying, hey, carpet dwellers, all the decision makers, the corporate folks upstairs. You have a responsibility, or rather, you would be better serving your company and the industry if you took account or maybe some ownership for the whole person, not just when they're on the clock.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

The human engine. So when we get to my side of the story, or what have you, I'll tell you about the my internal fall. I think the operational integrity, it's really uh another aspect of risk mitigation for companies. Okay. But I think I'm trying to make sure that I channel so that I'm I'm appealing to my story appeals and translates to everyone who's listening from wherever they come from.

Invisible PPE And Culture

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah. So you mentioned two things uh that have tickled my brain. You mentioned invisible PPE and your own personal internal flaw. What is invisible PPE? We're gonna come back to internal flaw because I know there's some power there. Well, what is invisible PPE? I like I like the word, it triggers some curiosity. I think I know what mean what it means. Well, what is that?

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Invisible PPE is well, a couple things. If we look at I say safety more as a 360 type angle. So you've got the top, you've got the top down, you've got the bottom up, and then you've got all sides, right? Top down would be the corporate aspect, so to speak. Bottom up would be the field level workers and and that aspect of it. All sides would be the culture that's kind of created from joining them together, right? Invisible PPE is all of the elements that are not necessarily seen up front, whether it's uh someone losing focus on their hygiene, um, getting more angry, kind of pulling away, like you. If you see your podcasts and all of a sudden for some reason you were kind of down, I think your whole group would reach out immediately because that's not norm, right? Yeah. Um, so invisible invisible PPE is an example of if we've got the best tools or we've got a life jacket sitting there, but no one's comfortable putting it on, or no one wears it, or if they do, everybody's like, hey man, what are you doing that for? Like, yeah, um, then the best of equipment doesn't really matter. So the culture created around a 360 view of safety in general, not just the physical aspect, kind of encompasses the an invisible PPE.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah, okay. I and I absolutely love this because I spend a little bit of time in a safety role. And this is just my simple plumber perspective on safety programs or safety cultures, is the large majority of what I've experienced out there is very compliance focused, right? The top-down, this is these are the things, and if you don't, there's some consequences, which I get makes sense, it protects a person, but also really guards the company against liability. Sure. And those suck, right? If I think, oh, I just Craig, Mr. Craig, he's a safety professional up in Canada. He said it best. You see, the problem with compliance-focused programs is if your entire focus is just compliance, the best you will ever get is mediocre. And I was like, oh gangster, because they're leaving out the invisible PPE, which I'm interpreting as being in tune or connected with the whole human being. If somebody should go off, if so somebody should that you could see a difference in their behavior, their demeanor, that requires a different level of connection, and it is invisible. And so this is this is a very important perspective. And so I get it, and I'm with you 100%, but I'm pretty sure you've had this conversation with other people and they roll your eyes out at you. How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Yeah. Well, I think back to your your quote and about compliance and the gentleman that you had spoken with with Mediopretty. One of the things that I see too is uh back to the the best of a corporate intent is I was just on a panel for Kurt here in Orlando, and they invited me up on stage as a different perspective. And there were some of the top leaders in the world from Jacobs and Hastec and IPI and Micron and Toyota. It was amazing. And for me to be up there, what an honor and privilege. But one thing that I noticed was they all referenced, hey, we have this new app, hey, we have this site, hey, we have this, and they genuinely felt that made a difference. And they said, Hey, we're seeing increased usage and people logging in. And so I found myself in a unique position where I wanted to honor what I think they felt like they were really providing, but at the same time, and guys in the field, they they're not gonna trust that's anonymous. And I've been in those meetings, I've been in those meetings like you where they go, hey man, fucking log into this app so we don't have to get annoyed anymore by lack of compliance, just log in and log out. And somebody sent there an internal log you in and log you out. So the reality is, I mean, they might think that they're actually providing some positive tools, and hopefully there's a few people using it, right? But I mean, from a compliance down standpoint, there's just not a lot of trust, and that barrier still exists. So yeah, back to your point, people that roll their eyes. I mean, I think none of us are smart enough to be able to really roll our eyes at anyone if we're open to trying to be the best person that we can be. Yes, even if I feel like I'm way out on the learning curve on one aspect of something, I always learn something, even if it's what not to do. Some of my best learning has been watching some guy and go, I would never do that, man. I would never do that. So sometimes you have to back into what you want to lead with. So yeah, I I mean, I respect anybody that's got any kind of constructive feedback, or if that topic is not appropriate for them or the timing of it, much respect. But I don't think anyone should be able to really judge anyone, or that would benefit anybody. So I haven't had too much negative eye rolling to be cannon with you.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

We're gonna do the LM Family Member shout-out, and this one goes to Mr. Travis Woods, who sat through one of my trainings here recently. We I had a hell of a lot of fun, but I always have fun. He left this review. He says, probably the best seminar I've been a part of, very engaging, and I'm a dirt guy, so I was actually locked in. And yeah, I get one, every one of you out there that takes the time to leave a review, leave a comment, do a share, a like, all of the things I deeply appreciate it. But when I read this one, he's like, I'm a dirt guy, like I don't like sitting down, and he was actually locked in, and he was absolutely locked in. So, folks, you already know. Give me a review, leave a comment, do a share, spread the word, leave a critical review to all of the above. It means a lot to me. It helps the show, and it gives me an excuse to shout you out in the future. Uh, I you know that the fact that you're not having a lot of negative eye rolling, I think is another signal. I just made a post the other day. I was kind of reflecting back on the last batch of trainings that I've done. And normally when I go do training, because my stuff is extremely people-centered, right? Like, yes, I'm gonna give you things to do planning and schedule management and what all the stuff, right? All the lean gadgets and whatever. I'm gonna help optimize the system, your processes. But I always take a huge emphasis about the human being, about the people. And historically, I would have to like get my mindset ready for the haters, for the eye rollers, for the guys that would just sit in the back with their arms crossed and just disengaged and indifferent. And so it's been a process, like, okay, Jess, you know what's gonna happen. Don't hyperfocus on them because you're wasting energy on them. Focus on the people that are asking questions that are engaged, blah, blah. And it's the thing. I have to like just be cool, don't let it bug you. Gotta remind myself. Well, this last couple months, man, I'm going in the rooms and people are open. Like, they're hungry. And I'm talking new hires, fresh into the industry, seasoned vets, they got all the highlights, right? Like they'd have been at it for a while, and they're all asking questions and getting excited about this. And I'm interpreting that as they're sick and tired of doing it the way doing construction the way we've been doing it, which has been entirely transactional. Our con the relationships are disposable, and they want a deeper connection, not just with the work, but with the people that they work with. And so you saying, like, well, I don't get a lot of rule guys, I think is another signal that, man, there's a major shift happening from the workforce that are like, give me something different, because all this other bullshit just ain't cutting it. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Yeah, well, I mean, it reminds me of your recent surfer post, which was pretty badass. I'm an old surfer too, and I had I would have gray hair if I had any left, so I could show you. But no, you would say haters or maybe even worse than haters, people that are just sitting there, just not even for or against whatever the method is. So, yeah, I mean, I look, I mean, we feed off of what people give us back, but in reality, you believe in yourself, you believe in your message, and you've seen what it can do for people. Yeah, so that's what you just got to kind of focus on. And this is an interesting mental health, quasi mental health, suicide, ideation, awareness, prevention, all of those things are I don't know. I mean, it's I'll give you an example, and it seems like the industry tells us to talk about things, right? Talk saves lives, talk, ask questions, do those kinds of things, but then it's one of the most like stigmatized topics that can be out there, so then nobody really does, and if so, they kind of come off as odd, or so I don't know. I mean, it's a it's an ironic thing that we're supposed to talk, and that's the biggest avenue to breaking down some of the barriers, but nobody really wants to start with it, so yeah.

Stigma, Language, And Speaking First

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Oh, I like that's a perfect segment. We opened the loop up earlier, and I agree because I find myself often saying, Well, just talk about it, be more open. Which I'm open, I could talk anybody's head off, but we don't have the skill, we don't have the pride because there's some vulnerable like massive vulnerability. We've I'll speak for myself. There was a long the majority of my damn career where I 100% believed and subscribed to the thinking that you leave your personal shit at home, and when you're at work, you focus on work. And I've had, I mean, for real, I've had guys, I saw them struggling. I saw I knew that they were having massive, we'll say heavy issues at home, right? Like family, loss of family, they're grieving something. And I straight up said, like, okay, do you need to go home? If you have vacation time, I'll give you vacation time or get back to work. I didn't I did not entertain, have like saying, Hey, bro, let's talk. Like it was never even on my like in my consciousness to to have a conversation about it. It was just like, get your shit together, go home, get your stuff together, or stay here and get your stuff together. I don't want to hear about it. Yeah. So the skill of saying, hey man, it looks like you're hurting. Come here, let's go for a walk. That was the scariest damn thing. The first time I did it, it was the scariest thing I ever did. And so there are steps to getting there. Saying talk about it is flippant, right? Or even ignorant to just tell people to talk about it. Now, what you also said was somebody's got to go first. And that's one of the things I deeply respect about you is that you are going first. You have shared with me some insight. We we kind of dropped a little seed, a little hook earlier about your internal fall. And I and correct me if I'm wrong, but this internal fall that you referred to is probably the reason, the motive behind you putting so much of your time and energy towards this issue. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_03 19:34

No, that's that's true. To follow up real quick, too, because you covered a few things. I mean, obviously, there's some old guard, old school. I mean, think about parenting, right? Like the way that you were talking about managing some of the guys and the job sites. I mean, we used to get we used to get beat. I mean, yeah, it's like, hey, I'm gonna tape your phone away for two hours. Like, okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, you get your ass whipped, and there was no question about it. I mean, if not, they tell you the principal will beat you. So, I mean, everybody took a piece if they wanted to, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Like, sure.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

So that was kind of the way things are, and it still is a lot of times on the job sites, but I think at the end of the day, you originally asked me about operational integrity, and I told you I think it kind of creates a 360 perspective where it's more comfortable, the culture is more allowing or more conducive for those types of things. I'll also tell you, and I think we were just briefly we were talking about how talking saves lives and talking opens things up, but the irony of it is that in this as I'm getting more exposed to some of the old guard or the people that control a lot of the narrative around suicide and that topic, is that they want to continue to change the terms and make it eye rolling to judge someone on based on what you say. So, as an example, would be hey, this guy committed suicide. You don't say that. Yeah, like oh, you don't? Uh you say like lost a writer or lived experience, or okay, well, look, I respect all that, I get it, and I know there's triggers and there's things like that. But when you're down in the field, and if you're trying to barely get a guy to speak, you can't then all of a sudden jam a you know something in his mouth and go, hey man, that's not the right word. Like they're gonna say suicide, they're gonna say they're gonna say the way that it needs to be said, and then we encourage people to talk, but yet it's a stigmatizing element. Then we tell them, hey, once you talk, now we're telling them that's not how you talk, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

So why talk?

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Yeah, so I'm trying to look at it like from my own internal fall. The last thing I was worried about is am I necessarily offending anyone or am I using the correct terminology? Which I wholeheartedly respect, but it's hard enough to try to break down these barriers. And then once you do, I think we ought to lighten up a little bit and let's look at what we're actually trying to achieve and not be slow patrolling or policing.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Yeah, man. I absolutely love this. And to echo what you said, I respect the initiative or the effort, but it's a friction point for regular folks that haven't pontificated about the thing. Correct. Adopt the new died by suicide. I get it. I love it. But if somebody's in crisis and they've never heard the phrase die, I feel like dying by suicide, right? They're gonna say, Man, I feel like taking myself out. I want out. And we need to be able, they need to be able to have the space to articulate their situation in the terms that are most comfortable and most used by them. That's what I hear you say.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

I think look, so we want to elicit that openness and we want to get that, and then we can kind of refine it. We can't really be asking for something and then shutting it down at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Not like that. No, no, no, no, not like that. Yep, yeah.

Field Conversations Beat Apps

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Yeah. Especially in our environment. I gotta tell you, like, I mean, I have nothing but respect for people that have led the way and all the different institutions and corporations that are driving. I mean, there's a lot of money and a lot of things flowing through for suicide and mental health and construction alone, like the statistics are staggering, abysmal. Yes. You almost kind of look at it and go, I think we've hit the ceiling, Jesse, on this shit, right? Like we've hit the ceiling on all that. Now we need to, and what I'm trying to do is make that ceiling the new floor, right? So we've kept enough HR videos, enough whatever. That guy is not gonna pick up a phone and watch an HR video. That guy's not gonna dial a number for the most part. But you know what he will do? If I'm out there on a port at 2 a.m. and I'm bringing donuts and coffee, and I can see this guy's having a struggle and there's no one around while we're waiting on the next truck to pour out, yeah. That guy tells me he's got an issue. Next thing you know, I'm like that guy's closest brother.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

And you can talk to someone in the middle of the night out there, just and those are where the differences are made. And so I really believe we can shotgun this message out and hope that it grabs some people and it will. But if we can create champions inside different organizations or inside the job site itself, see the Rockbusters are gonna hang, the electricians are gonna hang, the plumbers are gonna hang, the Hispanic workers are gonna hang, right? I mean, so if you can get one or two of those people to open up, man, you're gonna see a multiplier like you would never believe. And that's where the real traction is gonna be. So I want to make through leading with my story, I want to make the ceiling that we've kept, the new floor, and then invisible PPE, risk mitigation, operational integrity, the internal fall, all of the different terms that the human engine, those types of things become the focus where it's not our granddad's mental health program anymore, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

That's a t-shirt, that's a damn t-shirt. This ain't your granddad's mental health program.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Exactly. I mean, really. All right, man. I can tell that you got a lot of gas on the subject. And by gas, I was interviewing Maya just the other day, and she's like, gas is G A S. Give a shit. So you got a lot of give a shit about this thing. And I bet one of the LM family members out there listening right now is saying, Dude, man, this dude's fired up. Why are you so fired up about this issue?

SPEAKER_03 26:11

So I grew up, only child, violent alcoholic father, nice guy, but when he drank, which was most of the time, he it turned ugly and uh came out on my mom, came out on me, right? I had two uncles commit suicide or take their lives by suicide. I had a friend of mine, I had a neighbor of mine, and then the biggest one was my stepfather. And so, I mean, it's been a yeah, a lot of trauma, and really just being kind of, I guess, surrounded in a way by the ultimate option, right? Um the last ultimate choice. So that said, one day I was in getting ready for work, and in the background I could hear the news on, and it said, uh, gentlemen jumped from overpass into rush hour traffic.

unknown 27:08

Oh, jeez.

Why Scott Cares: Lived Experience

SPEAKER_03 27:09

So I'm listening, I'm getting ready in the bathroom, and I go back out and I lean around and I'm listening to it again. And the reporter said something to the effect of we've investigated, the gentleman was of high standing, the gentleman had no seeming marital or family issues, very well respected. Literally, there's nothing that anyone could see for this internal fall. And I thought to myself, and I mean, I I get a little ner upset like thinking about it, but if we decide to make that type of decision, then the method makes it even more curious as to the collateral damage that he knew had to have been inflicted on not only people that knew him, but the impact within the the highway, right? Like, so so I started thinking about that in a way that was like, wow, I mean, what could someone potentially say to him or about his situation and would that have made a difference? So I tell you the background of trauma surrounded by uh back a history of indirect suicide, and then that particular story, and I thought to myself, man, I'll never I hope I'll never get to that spot. I just don't know how you could get there. Yeah, flash ahead a few years, and I'm taking every pill in the house, I'm drinking 18 hours straight because what I learned was I didn't want to weigh out, I really wanted a way up. And I believe that's what that gentleman did, and I don't think anyone really wants to leave. I think they just run out of options and they feel like that might be the least option.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah. Wow. So yeah, no, the I the way out versus the way up. I think I mean there's a lot, there's a lot, and I appreciate you sharing what you did because it's I understand how difficult that is, but it's extremely valuable so that other people are in very similar situations. There's I was thinking about it before the call. There's five people that I know directly or knew directly that have gone. They've died by suicide, they've taken their lives, and on the outside, everything was fine. They had issues, everybody has issues. Yeah, it I like making that decision did not seem to me like something that they would do. And then inter, like more personally, I've had people in my direct family that have attempted, and it's a difficult thing to understand. I remember I was talking to a friend this is years ago, being really frustrated with people, like you said, the collateral damage, right? My grieving, my loss because they decided to make the decision. And he said, We just it is gonna be really crass, so you know, trigger warning, right? He's like, no difference between you and them. And I said, I don't understand. And he says, They just did it faster. You're drinking yourself away, you're like you're uh doing the thing the slowest way possible. They just did it faster than you. When he said that, I'm like, I was pissed, of course. But on the outside, everything was fine for me. But internally, there was a whole mess that I didn't want to deal with anymore, and the way I dealt with it was by numbing it by consuming substances that helped me feel differently, and I was gonna stay on that path because I didn't see a weight up from what I was swimming in. It took a lot of work, and eventually, thank goodness I'm here in June, I'll be at 10 years sober. But I I share that a little bit so that people like just because people are thriving, like statistically on the paper, like they're doing well, career, doesn't mean they ain't got problems. Oh, yeah, and so we need to check in on in on our people, but what again, more what's really impressive about you and why I want to support you in whatever you're doing is because I've seen it and I've been directly impacted by it, but I don't have the what it takes to go and champion changing it, and you are so props to you, man.

Way Out Versus Way Up

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Well, thank you. I don't I don't know. I mean, I thought about it for quite a while, and I've spoken with my boys and my girlfriend, and I've got a very good support network, and I've spoken with a gentleman from the industry who had kind of come out with his story about three years ago, more on an academic level. He's more of an executive type where he got his doctorate on construction and suicide, and I think burned out a little bit. So, you know, I pray that my message is delivered and has an impact over those. But I honestly, I mean, I'm no more than than you are or anyone else. This is not the focus of my life. This is not everything that consumes me, but there's a dire need out there, and I'm really either blessed or in a unique position to where working and ready makes. I'm closing deals and signing POs, and I'm working with builders and GCs and one-off renovations and DOT work, and I'm covering all spectrums on that side. Then I'm also doing the deliverables out in the field where I'm out there with the QC guys and the specs and getting the little block. And so, I mean, I'm I'm in a really unique position to be able to touch different groups at the at their level, right? In their environment, and then having a lived experience, it's there's not a lot of people that really I think could carry this message. Now, I've seen a lot of people that say, Hey, I had a brother's brother who lost a brother, and that's I mean, that's terrible. And then, hey, yeah, I heard construction can be tough, and that's terrible. And so, but to actually be able to be in that, I feel like hopefully carries a little heavier voice and that maybe attracts a little bit more audience. But I'm nothing that you're not or anyone else isn't. It just so happens to be that I want to put it out there and see if I can be in the tip of the spear for kind of opening that dialogue. Like I said, everything that I see, Jesse, we've topped out. I mean, we've hit the ceiling of I mean, four to five times the national average for construction suicides, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

I mean, someone dies every 40 seconds. I mean, it's three kids last week in one of the local high schools, they all kill themselves at around the same time. You got celebrities, right? You got football players, you come and you can't anytime every week, you can't hear a news broadcast or a radio without somebody or something. So clearly there's there's a need, and people are struggling. And I think whatever we can try to do, and if I help with that, then that that's great. Yeah, help someone choose tomorrow because I can tell you at that time I didn't know if I was willing to see what tomorrow brought, if it was more darkness, or did I want to roll the dice?

Champions On Site, Not HQ

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Dude, you're just dropping all kinds of t-shirts here. Help someone choose tomorrow. And that's powerful. I mentioned I wrestled with addiction for a very long time, and I early well, I've done it many times, but I remember the last time or the first time, I would get all wound up, like, man, what do you mean I can't drink forever? Like, never ever, and oh my god, uh and I remember one of my the early sponsors, he's like, No, man, just not today. I said, What the hell does that mean? He's like, just not today. You can drink tomorrow, just not today. Three cycles, three arrests later, it finally clicked like, Oh, I just need to not drink today. I can do it tomorrow, and I'm gonna choose to think about it tomorrow, but today I'm not. And that is what has strung together in 10 damn years. So you're help someone choose tomorrow. I think is a call to action to the LM family members out there. If you see somebody struggling, reach out to them. There's resources, I know there's all kinds of stuff. We'll make sure we leave your link to your website in the show notes because it sounds like you can help. Now, an important thing that I think you're being very humble, that's similar to the 12 steps, is it wasn't somebody that studied alcoholism and addiction that helped me. It was somebody that has lived it that helped me. And now I understand the point you have on your LinkedIn profile as a survivor-led advocate, because you are a survivor and you're an advocate, which gives you a level of credibility that nobody can study their way to. And so again, props to you for that. Now, one thing that you mentioned that I want the LM family members out there to like slap, I'm gonna slap them in the face with it, if you don't mind, Scott. Yeah, you're doing your job, right? You're selling the product, you're representing the company, you're out there in the field, making sure stuff's happening, taking those, like you're doing the work, you've got family, you've got your girlfriend, and you're doing this. And so I want to highlight that because it is possible. You said I'm not dedicating my entire life to it, and here's the truth like you don't have to. It's a gap, it is a value point, it's something that we need in our industry, and even if you're giving it an hour a week, it's gigantic because the void is so big. And so, for everybody that's listening, if you see a problem in your community, in your job site, it doesn't matter in the world, you can apply some of your gifts and talents towards changing that, and it will be impactful. You don't have to quit your freaking job and become an online personality to make a difference in the world. All you got to do is take a step towards helping other people. Am I wrong? No, you're right. And look, I'm it's scary, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:13

I mean it's scary because for a whole lot of ways, but that I mean, look, I'm kind of OCD too, so I'm I've got a lot of I got a lot of shit going on, right? So I I've spent an inordinate amount of time on this, but it's only really been in the last three or four months, and the funding is through me, it's all through me. And uh so I definitely spent a lot of time on it, but it's what I meant, what what I was trying to tell you was if somebody looks at me and once they've seen my story or kind of looked at LinkedIn once I changed everything, if they don't know how to react, they'll say, Hey man, are you are you all right? Like, are you doing all right? And I'm like, Yeah, okay. Like, so what I meant to say was like it's not all consuming, meaning, like, I don't just this isn't all I talk about, like I'm selling Amway or something.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Got it, yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

But my energy, my focus, and my like respect for the topic is genuine and sincere, and it's out there, so yeah. But I mean, it's not like every time you see me, it's like, hey, this guy's gonna talk about no. I mean, I want it to work for you, and if it's something you want to talk about, great. If not, let's shoot the shoot, let's have a beer or a smoothie in your case.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Do these work?

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Yeah, so yeah, but yeah, that's the real. And uh, one thing you did say that was interesting to me is one of the guys I I love to listen to is he's passed away now, but his name is uh Dr. Wayne Dyer. And you had told me the guy told you, don't drink, just don't drink today, right? Yep, and I think what you were saying mirrors what one of the things that he said, which was when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

And man, I have to I could repeat them to myself multiple times before it really kind of before it really sank in. So I think that's where here's the message, and then let it be translated to whatever might work for you. It's not about how I it's not about how I say it that I need credit for how I say it, it's how you interpret it so that it works for you and your team or your family or however that works.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

I love it, man. All right, so again, thank you for going deep, bro, because it's important. Like for me, I think the most important thing any of us can do is signal to other people out there that they are not alone. And I think by you sharing what you've shared, somebody's gonna say, Oh shit, I'm not the only one. And that is ultra valuable because I know how much I needed it when I was in the muck. Now, you mentioned champions on the job site, which I absolutely I'm and maybe by default, I'm always kind of a grassroot approach to anything because I know how complicated corporate organizations make things, and so and I 100% believe. I mean, you've seen it, I've seen it, I've been on job site, hundreds of job sites. Some of them I walk into the trailer and it's like, oh shit, this trailer's possessed. There's some bad juju in here. And I've walked on others where it's like, oh wow, this is what's going on here. People get along and talk and shit, like what? And it's instant. Every job site, like, forget the corporation, forget the companies, because every company has beautiful, glossy bullshit on their website. If you want to actually experience what's actually happening, go to the job site, and you will see and feel the real truth. And so I think from my perspective, it's like we're only focused on this corporate culture stuff. What about the job site culture? And I think, I mean, every I'm not gonna get into it, but everybody has a culture, period. Well, is it by design or is it by default? And so you the idea of having champions on the job site, I think is a profound and powerful idea. So can you maybe color in the blank spots here in terms of what is that? What is a champion on the job site? What does that mean? What does that look like? How do you envision that?

The Five Life-Saving Tools

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Yeah, well, I mean, how I kind of look at it is like I'm not the most effective person at communicating with every individual, and nor do I think anyone is. So to your point, I've walked in the trailers and man, it's clean, there's water, there's soap, like shit that you would think that would be normal. It's relatively clean. There's posted notes like with dates and times, and everything's like you have all the schedules, it's well organized. I've walked into them too, where I mean, yeah, the doors open to the toilet, there's shit everywhere. Like it comes down to the management style of the trailer, the job site, the corporation. But as far as like wanting to effectively communicate to everyone, I think you've gotta you've gotta allow the people to kind of drive that. So I can give you some buzzwords and I can give you some things that might work for me, or I can you know very effectively give you third party stories that trigger and push and encourage you. To hopefully say what I'm asking you to say, but it's not until it comes from Jesse that it's going to really affect the guy next to him. No different than when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. I don't know what's going to target that person that day that's going to make them go, hey, I never heard of that before. But you will, or he will, or she will. And so I think if you can kind of if you can create the environment where somebody will go first or put that life jacket on, back to the example I gave you, and somebody not go, hey man, what a wuss, you don't need a life jacket. Like the water's not even that deep. Instead, they help you put it on, right? Now you're creating them a positive, more champion environment where it's like, hey, you can still bullshit one one another and you can still bust balls, and that's half the fun. That's half the fun of it's beating the hell out of everybody. But when it comes to shifting gears and let whoever's in front lead that day or lead that week with the topic, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

And you even have tools to help with this. Well, I'm interpreting them as tools. I'm on your website right now, and there's a button that says get the field guide, the five life saving tools. Yes. Notice, share, connect, act. Simple. And then there's descriptors. If I'm a champion on the job side, I keep this in my pocket and I can use it as a tool to be a champion and be the invisible PPE that drives the culture where we actually choose tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

Yes, I created just a basic five life-saving tools because you gave me an example before where you said, hey, when I was running the job sign, I'm like, hey, either go home or get your ass in gear and figure it out. You didn't really know what to say or how to talk, right? Yep. Cool. I created this bilingual five-step just kind of for someone who didn't know what to say or how to say it, it might encourage them or give them a starting half. So it's not all encompassing, but hopefully it's a start out. So I've got a little QR code, and yeah, basically it's notice, ask, share, connect, and act. And if you're able to go on the site and take a look at it, it might encourage you to you have another method to do it, but at least it's something to kind of start with.

How To Reach Scott And Support

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Yeah. Oh, I absolutely love it. So, folks out there, you need to go to Scott Evanspeaks.com. We'll put the link in the deal. And I'll just again applause because it's not overly complicated, right? It's a simple reference tool, simple framework for people to consider. It's not requiring a certificate. And it's free. Like I didn't even have to put my email in to get it. I just go download that thing, which I totally respect, man. Yeah, no, I think like keep doing it. Let's spread the word about the thing. So I'm fixing a move into the Grand Slam home run. But before I do, I got two questions. Yes, sir. One is where's the best way? Like if people are feeling what you're bringing, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_03 48:09

Well, on my website that you had kindly mentioned, thank you. There's a connect form there. Also, LinkedIn, you had mentioned how much you liked that. I've never really been big on social media until about three months ago, and I'm starting to try to start to try to figure it out. So learning from you and uh and from others as well. So yeah, if you could go on LinkedIn or you could go on the website, reach out to me, I'd be more than happy to. A lot of people have actually reached out privately and publicly. And it's been amazing, amazing the stories and the impact that it's had so far. So thank you for asking that.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Yeah, man, good, rightfully so. Just be ready for the tidal wave because it's just the realness, like you've lived it. And if anybody that struggled right with this suicide, attempted suicide, grief, and dealing with the muck, it's not a past tense, it's an ever-present thing that we have to contend with. And so you are living it. And I think that combined with how vulnerable and clearly you speak about the matter, is just gonna attract way, way more people, and more importantly, it's gonna help more people. So, so keep doing that. Now, on that note, what did I forget to ask you about? There's something that I just totally whiffed on that that we absolutely need the LM family know about.

Prevention Isn’t Charity: ROI

SPEAKER_03 49:41

Yeah, no, and look, I'd be more than happy to continue this segment and I really enjoy talking with you, man. It's like I've known you forever. So, you know, this doesn't have to be a one and done. And if you get positive feedback from your group and your team, if they talk about a certain aspect of it, or we could touch on that more specifically down the road, or I'd be more than happy to do that. I think one aspect that would probably be important for everyone to realize, and especially from a corporate standpoint, is to try to package the message the right way is prevention isn't charity. There's a huge ROI component to this as well. Something happens on site, job site shut down, legal depositions, turnover. When I was on that panel for Kurt, one of the huge things that we just talked about was I was telling him, how's your turnover rate? I mean, you guys jump in ship for two or three dollars or with ice out there. These guys don't these guys don't want to travel for jobs now, they want to stay closer, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Oh, yeah, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

Do you want to be a destination employer? And this might be one aspect for you. So if you hire me or you bring in someone for mental health or suicide awareness training, excuse me, that counts as OSHA credits. You get insurance discount premiums, right? For these kind of things. There's a lot of this isn't charity, this is true bottom line, indirect savings, not to mention what the real genuine message is, which is help our brothers not only stay safe inside the gig, but beyond the gig getting home and back to work in the same mindset. So I wanted you to know that there is that component to it. And also, Henry Ford, he said, I get if I gave the people what they wanted, it would have been a faster horse, right? But he completely did a paradigm shift and changed the way that transportation now exists, which back to my point is so there's an ROI standpoint, but there's also the ceiling of what enough stats and data, and these guys aren't gonna go to a website and click on this and click on that. So if we can make it more user-friendly and communicative, like we are just shooting the shit, talking, yeah. I think I think we're hitting at 360, which is what we originally started out with operational integrity.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Yeah, man. Yeah, I love it. Because what you just said is there is business value in doing the things that you're talking about. Plus, like straight up, you provide the services so they can call you, bring you in, and there's immediate business value. So you don't have to care about people. I'll just say it. You don't have to care about people if you want to impact your bottom line, do this. And to your, I love that you said like destination employer, because I'm seeing it now, and I think it's just gonna back to the surfer post I made the other day. Like, there's no doubt in my mind that the companies, the decision makers within the organizations that design a system that demonstrates appreciation for the human being, that design a system that drives human connection, whether they give a shit about it or not, is irrelevant. You can design the system, watch it happen. They are going to win the talent game. They're gonna save on turnover, they're gonna save on recruitment, and they're gonna get the best freaking talent because, like you said, they're it's a new floor, they're setting a new paradigm, a new standard by investing in the human beings, the human engines that are on under their roof. And I it's a total business strategy, and it's transformative for the men and women that are out there doing the work. So I love that you're contributing to that, bro.

Making Culture A Talent Advantage

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Well, here, think about this too, Jesse. And is what one of my fears is not only just potential perception of the topic and me itself, but I've had a lot of conversations in a short amount of time with some relative key players in the traditional suicide mental health forums, and some of them don't seem to be as eager to make any adjustments, whether it's they don't know any different, or they've monetized their particular segment and don't want that disruptive, and they're controlling who gets be seen and who doesn't. So, one thing maybe I'd ask you or any of your viewers is what would you see to potentially kind of offset that and then any feedback that maybe I could be more effective or more helpful in what I'm doing, because literally this is just me kind of trying to come up with some really cool terms that are genuine that will help open people's eyes, whether it be a corporate person that signs a check, whether it's a guy that's sitting there who went, Hey man, I should have said something to this guy the other day, or maybe tomorrow I'll proactively just reach out and go, Hey man, what's the heaviest thing you're carrying today? And just see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

So I feel you, I'm gonna frame that as the difference between scarcity mindset and abundance mindset. I understand, like, and it's funny, right? Because it's in the business that I do, I get to see behind the scenes, behind the curtain on terms of how the organizations are working. And there's sometimes there's this fear of like, hey, you can't tell people about our secret thing. Nobody's doing anything secret, right? There are no secret things, but I will honor that, right? I'm not gonna go and spill the beans on anybody's stuff, but there are there's plenty of need for every different flavor of service, and it doesn't matter if it's your segment that you're focusing on or my segment, it doesn't matter. There are so many freaking people out there that need help, and me guarding my shit doesn't help more people, and even if I had all the people, I can't handle all the people, so that's why I say there's a scarcity mindset. So now I'm gonna take a stab at answering your question in terms of like how do you get out there? The easy button is whatever you're doing on social media right now, multiply it times 10. Easy. Now I know how much work that takes, right? I know how much time that takes, but lesson I've learned is the things I really give a shit about, when I talk about it, when I post about it, it puts me in front of the right people. It also helps the wrong people go with the other provider, which will do a better job for them. And so now, in terms of this is for you, LM family member, if you believe in this effort that Mr. Scott is working on, this thing that he's bringing to the world, support him. And I'm not, I mean, sure, you could I don't know if you have a Patreon account or whatever, but I'm talking support, follow him on LinkedIn, go visit his website, download his thing, share it with the people out there on your job site in your space, comment on his thing, DM with him, like support him because I know way back when I started this deal, it's freaking lonely. It sucks to make a post and nobody interacts.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

Like, even today, there's post I'm like, shit, man, nobody likes me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

And then I gotta go like I gotta like myself.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Like, yes, yes. So support's got if you believe in it. I'm not saying just go follow him and because if you believe in it and you support it, it's the easy thing for our the audience out there is to interact and engage and connect and see if you're aligned and if it makes sense to go deeper. But I applaud you for even asking that, man, because it's real. All right. So we're gonna go into the Grand Slam home run question, final question. And I'm excited, enthused about what your response is going to be because it's clear that you are a man on a mission with great conviction that has learned from many painful missteps and the missteps of others, and you have just a broader perspective in terms of you're not just doing this for you, you're doing this to have a change in other human beings' lives, particularly in our industry. And so here is the question: What is the promise you are intended to be?

Scarcity, Abundance, And Action

SPEAKER_03 58:29

I would have to say the promise that I intend to be is a very interesting question, and I want to make sure that I'm interpreting it properly. I can tell you what the answer is probably by telling you what it's not. One thing I feel like I've learned is that not when you ask a question like that, people learn more from what they don't want than what they want. So let me give you an example. You stunned me a little bit on the question because first I didn't hear you, and secondly, I wasn't sure if I followed. But if I ask you, hey, you want to get something to eat for dinner? Sure. What do you want? Well, I don't know. Well, all right, let's do some pizza, and you're like, nah, man, I had pizza yesterday. Okay. Well, how about some Chinese? And you're like, man, Chinese made my stomach upset or whatever. And it's like, all right, well, how about seafood? And you're like, man, I still don't know if I have that shell issue, self food issue. So it's like, well, shit, well, what do you want? So it's like sometimes you don't know what you want until you eliminate those other things to answer your question. And I think the promise that I intend to be is genuine and hopefully effective at being able to balance everything that I'm currently doing with the success of not just making a difference, but really continuing to heal myself through seeing the impact of others. I don't know if that flowed very well, but I think it goes back to your question. It was very original, and and I didn't want to disrespect by trying to just make something up, but I really feel like the promise is learning more about how to be the most effective version of this by not doing what's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

I love it, man. Uh, there's so much depth in that, and I love that you pointed out this is part of your healing journey as well. The genuine part, you're already doing it, bro. And I'll say, from my perspective, anyways, like you're on the path, like you're doing that now, and it's just a matter of staying on the path. So I applaud you, bro. Like for real. This is hopefully this conversation wasn't too scary for some people, but I think it's tremendously valuable that you're sharing so much of yourself with the world and continuing to do all the things that you do.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Man, I can't thank you enough, Jesse. And this is my first podcast. So sorry if I babble. I if I babbled a little bit or you know stumbled, but yeah, I appreciate your time for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Likewise, brother. Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end. I know you got a whole lot of stuff going on. And in appreciation for the gift of time that you have given this episode, I want to offer you a free PDF of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be. The link for that bad boy is down in the show notes. Hit it. You don't even have to give me your email address. There's a link in there. You just click that button, you can download the PDF. And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self-destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate. You sharing that increases the likelihood that it's gonna help one more person. And if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be. Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.