Guest Day: Meet Jayden

In this episode i bring on my first guest onto the show. We cover leadership at a young age. 

- What challenges he currently faces

- What he does to get around those challenges

- And much more!

The purpose of the episode was to expose the challenges that you face every day in leadership and show the reality of it. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome back to the Lead with Brenner podcast. So today's episode I've actually got someone on the podcast, and Jaden, uh, he's young, 25 years old, in the turf industry, and he's recently gone into a foreman role. So in the deep end, in leadership, and he's actually my brother. So really interesting episode for me as well because I've never really sat down with Jaden and actually asked him these questions. And I do put him on the spot a bit. So I get him thinking, and um, yeah, I mean the answers that he that he gives, it really shows that you know, with good leadership and good guidance, good mentoring uh around him, that you know, even at a young age you can really you can really get into the right pathway and and set yourself up, and that's exactly what he's doing. So uh hope you enjoy the episode and a good insight for for the next generation uh mindset and the ones that are going to be taking the the industry forward. On today's episode, I've got Jaden with me, a younger guy, he's in the same industry as what I'm in, and wanted to come onto the lead with Brennan podcast as well. And basically what we'll cover today is essentially the challenges that he faces going into you know new leadership roles and you know a big emphasis on wanting to progress into higher roles, but at a young age, you haven't really got that experience yet, and you know you're capable, but you often get looked over as well. And I think it'd be good to put an emphasis on the mindset of a young the younger generation as well about what they think about culture and how important that is, the mental health in the industry as well. It's often difficult to get up and talk in front of team members and read out jobs and things like that in the morning. So welcome Jaden, welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, thank you very much. Excited to excited to come on and chat. We're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, nice. So it's for anyone that obviously doesn't know you, maybe just give them a brief overview of what you do in the industry and I guess how old you are as well, how many years you've been in the industry, yes, and then what yeah, what you want to do long term in it as well, and then we can go into the the major topics.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, so I currently in a form and role at a race course. Got the promotion maybe coming on six months now. Yeah, I started off maybe when I was 16, left school and went casually just as at that race course as well, and worked my way up a little bit and became full-time, and then decided I want to go try a few other avenues in different careers, and then yeah, ultimately come back to the turf industry and really the racing industry and come back as a full-time kind of just a groundsman, and then yeah, as I said, it maybe coming on six months ago, got the promotion, and yeah, it's been great since.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, nice. And so when you mentioned that you went at different avenues, do you mean obviously outside of the turf industry as well, not just in the turf industry? Yeah, yeah. What did you do? What were the jobs that you did?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So went and I tried a few, a fair few different kinds of careers, went and did tried concrete, just a few other trades, tried concreting, also tried a few of my own little businesses as well, which moved up to Queensland and did car detailing as a business, which was and we'll probably touch on that. It's how it's helped me with this role as well, just dealing with different customers has really helped me get into this role, dealing with different different sorts of personalities and things like that. But yeah, and then ultimately I really when I did leave the race course, I probably did miss it and regretted leaving in the first place. So yeah, I was quite excited when I moved back down to Huntington from Queensland. I got the opportunity to come back and yeah, haven't really looked back since.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

And what do you reckon your biggest learnings are from the car detailing thing? Because I think it's important to communicate to the younger people that are going to be listening to this are going to probably look at you as someone to go that that says to themselves, Oh, I feel like that, I don't know what I want to do. Some people will look at you and say, Yeah, I want to do this, I don't know how to get into that, and so on. And it's easy to go down the negative pathway of I'm lost, I don't know what I'm doing, all that kind of stuff. But as long as you take lessons from each situation, then that's not it doesn't necessarily mean it's always a bad thing. So, what are the main lessons do you find that you learnt from the car detailing or even just the concreting as well? Because you obviously you mentioned you're glad that you came back to Mornington, where you live now, as you said, and back doing what you're doing now. What what makes you think that the things that you've learned in the past have helped you in the role you're in now?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Like, definitely with the car detailing, obviously, you're dealing with different personalities and different customers, and I think that's transitioned to the leadership role that I've taken on now. Obviously, you're going to be dealing with different personalities and different staff members, and it's yeah, just to help me in that sense. It's really the main thing. I just feel like it really helped me become more of a people's person, and yeah, I think that's really helped. For the concreting, probably not society concreting isn't probably for everyone, and I realize that quite quickly.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah, so hard work though.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, definitely. But yeah, it's yeah, much respect to anyone that does that for a lifetime of career type thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

So yeah, but yeah, just sorry, I think just the expectation of car detailing as well. Like you you mentioned just dealing with people, obviously that's a main thing, but the expectation is you can't really get that wrong, and I think that that resonates, moves into leadership as well, because you're in the limelight all the time, right? Like your results are driven by expectation and by people constantly looking at your work. So I think definitely a job like car detailing as well, and starting your own business too, because your name's on the line, right? Like, you're not really working for somebody else that's ultimately going to be judging you, like the customers and the expectation is you get that right, and you don't you can't really go any other way with it. Yeah, definitely, definitely understand that. And then so I guess we'll go back to the the position that you're in now. Obviously, you're in that form and role now, but in the lead up to it, was there any point in time where you thought, yeah, I'm not gonna I'm gonna get overlooked here, or do you just keep your head down and just keep doing what you're doing and hope that it works out, or how did you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, I think especially in the racing industry, it's there's not a lot of people, young people coming up in the racing industry. So I've just looked at it as if I really do put my head down and and work hard and show initiative, which I did, then I can't really kind of get overlooked. I think it's just some of the things that I kind of did when I went that there could be a potential role popping up, just doing the some of the jobs that probably no one wants to do as well, just getting there and get in there and get it done. Yeah, yeah, like I think that's the the main thing that really helped me. Obviously, the the turf side, I've still got a lot to learn, which I'm excited to do. But I think, yeah, with the leadership side, as I said, the car detailing really did help me be able to deal with obviously different sorts of personalities, which has yeah, really helped me.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

I find in leadership too, like especially in turf, the turf part of the job is almost 20% of the role, I reckon. So that the remaining 80% of that is leadership and is leading through action, is doing the 1% as the things that you mentioned, the doing the stuff that everybody deemed as a shit job, that they're the stuff that's gonna make you succeed, and that's the those are the things that's gonna push you forward in your own career as well. And leaders will come in, like you say, for example, if you go into that form role that you're in now and you come in and I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and you don't do anything, then no one is gonna follow you. So I think the way that you've gone about it, obviously leading by action in those moments is definitely a good trait to have. And I guess what's your overall vision of say, for example, one day if you become a race course manager, or when you do, more so to the point, what what kind of leader or what kind of race or race course manager do you see you being, but with how you want to carry yourself?

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Well, I think definitely, and I'm sure we'll meet we might touch on this later in the podcast, but I think creating a really good workplace for the staff is really important to me.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Culture.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah, culture, yeah, it's just being a really open leader and I suppose someone putting myself out there that I can be people can come to me, kind of thing, and I think that's really important for for anyone who may be struggling as well. Like it's my phone could be always open at any time for a call. And yeah, I think it's hard to say for me right now. Obviously, I do want to be a race course manager one day, uh, but still got a long way to go to get to that point and a lot of learning to do as well. But yeah, I think that is the main thing, just creating a really good workplace culture. And if everyone's happy to come to work, then everyone's gonna be happy to do the job and the job's gonna get done to a really high standard as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Nice. I thought, yeah, I think you're dead on there with that. And I guess you speak about culture, and whenever we talk about culture, I think even in leadership in general, we always talk about what makes it, what makes culture a good culture in a workplace, what actually has to be done to allow that to be good. But what have you experienced over your time? Doesn't have to be in turf, but what have you experienced over time that that you think contributes to culture in a negative way? So what makes you look at a workplace and go, this should be done that way? What are the key things that that you think people do these days that could be done better to to improve the culture?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Look, I think probably a big one would be like my micromanaging your staff. I don't think that is the right way to go about things. I like to give out jobs and trust in my staff that they're gonna do the job and do the job well instead of just always looking over and looking at the job that they're doing. And for one, I'm not perfect as well. So if I've made mistakes in in in my workplace as well, and I suppose if you do make mistakes, just I want to be that kind of leader that you can come to me and say, you know what, I've made this mistake, what can we do to fix it and kind of go from there?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, nice. I think how I try and approach that situation as you mentioned, because mistakes do happen, right? And I'm the same, I'm not perfect, I've made mistakes, we all do. But I think it's really important for me. A good culture is when the person can, as you said, comfortably come to you and tell you that they've made a mistake, but also not degrading them in public or in front of the team is really important as well. I think having a private conversation with them and just getting to know that there's always a reason why people do things most of the time, but there's going to be times where people just aren't thinking. But there's always an underlying reason, I find, when that's happening. So whether they have something going on outside of work potentially, and they're not happy at work or something, it generally leads to mistakes or often making mistakes and becoming detrimental to the culture in a negative way. And I think it's important for you as a leader and us as leaders to address that in a professional way and actually a supportive way. And I think when people make mistakes, it's important to I think ask that question first about let's put work aside for a second and let's just ask them is everything okay? Are you actually okay mentally, physically, outside of work, and so on? Then if they are, and then that's when you delve into that conversation of okay, these are the couple of things that I've noticing. Are you making these mistakes pretty regularly? Is it a focus thing and so on? Yeah, yeah. And it's good to it's good to get a gauge on how you think about it. And I think the things that you're saying is there's definitely it will be refreshing to hear because a lot of old school leadership too is hard enough and you do your job and you you do it well and you shut up. And I just don't think that's a very ethical way of doing things, especially these days. I don't think you get the benefit from the team either. You don't get the results that you could get. But what do you feel the the biggest pressure for you is every day? And I think I'll just give you an example. I just I struggle to switch off with work and or take things home, and I'm getting better at it. But do you do you find that kind of stuff like now that you're in the limelight of everybody's eyes and questions are always coming to you and things like do you struggle to switch off, or what's your biggest challenge? Do you think?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, I think that that probably is my biggest challenge as well at the moment, is really struggling to switch off. Always probably, and it's probably not a bad thing, just always thinking of what we can do for the week and then the next week, and obviously working around whether we've had a lot of rain down in in Melbourne and Mornington lately, so it's been a little bit hard operationally, but yeah, I think something that I do have to get better at is switching off and really just getting it through to my head that it's everything's everything's just gonna be okay, type thing. So, yeah, that is definitely something that I need to improve on, is not taking work home with me, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, I think but just making sure throughout the day that you if you're leaving work every day knowing that you've given you given 100% and you've done everything the right way or the way that you want to do things, I find that helps me be able to switch off as well. Yeah, but I also have I have peers too that I can rebound things off and I guess mentors in my world. Do you feel that you had that support around you to be able to reach out if you do have anything you want to run by, uh whether it's a peer or a mentor or a boss or anything like that, do you feel that you had that support?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah, definitely. I was actually speaking about this this kind of similar situation just yesterday with my boss, and he's he said to me on noticing that yeah, I do need to switch off a little bit. And he also said to me, like, it's not a bad thing, it just so it shows that you care and you want to do things good. But um, he kind of gave me some some good advice with his own kind of with what he went through as well, which was with his last with his with his last job. Just he also kind of struggled to switch off as well and and started to get into the motion of being a little bit of like a robot, just just coming into work and going through the motions and doing what you have to do and maybe getting a little bit complacent as well. So, yeah, that's actually yeah, literally speaking about this yesterday. So it's interesting that we're we're speaking about it as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, I think it's a common thing, right? There's a lot of this stuff that we were talking about today or that we've spoken about already doesn't get spoken about, I don't think it's there's a lot of podcasts out there for leadership and people posting videos, and you know, you have all the TED talks and all that kind of stuff, and it's all very high production kind of setups, and there's no just raw conversations with people that are on the ground doing it in in the trenches, I say essentially the way that cost of living is these days, it puts a lot of pressure on you as a person, and especially at work, when you're trying to build your career and you've got all these other stresses as well, it's difficult not to get obsessive about your work and if you're very passionate about where you want to take it, and obviously you're very motivated to get to the top, which is great. You're gonna have at some point you're gonna have to learn to not take that home and do that. So I think it's good that you're definitely aware of it and you've got the support there as well. But what what do you what's your view on with how young that you are and where you want to take yourself in this industry? Are you more interested in delivering a high role to make a name for yourself, or are you more interested in just doing it because you want to do it? Are you interested in what people think about what the job that you do, or are you doing it more so to I guess to fulfill your own goals? Does that mean if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah, probably more yeah, more doing it for myself. Obviously, I've got a young family as well. So I want to be that role model to my kids as well, showing if you put your mind to anything, you can do it, but yeah, not really caring about type doing it for any uh anyone else. If I do get to that higher position one day in the in the future, it's something that I will be able to look back on and really think I've done this, I've put in the work and yeah, succeeded in what I've done.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So yeah, yeah, nice. And so how do you look at obviously with the in this day and age, you've got a lot of mental health in every industry. There's a lot of especially work cover, things like that, work safe, they're all going down the path of like psycho psychosocial aspect of workplace, and everybody's learning about it, and you've got to be careful with what you say to people these days. It's it's becoming a real thing, which is fair enough, but there's gonna be times where you're gonna have to give disciplinary action to somebody, and you're gonna have to tell someone that they're not something they're not happy to hear. Do you how do you approach that in your mind? Do you feel that you're a little bit stuck sometimes on what to say?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah, that's something that I'm I'm quite lucky that our my our team at where where we are is is quite good. They they know everyone knows what they need to do, so that's not very often that I have to give that discipl disciplinary action. But yeah, yeah, I think if it comes to me having to do it, that is something that I probably feel a little bit uncomfortable with just due to that I've never had to do it before, yeah, which I think will come with experience over time. And you obviously there is gonna be a time where you're gonna have to have that conversation with someone, but yeah, I think if if that does have to happen, I think coming across I suppose in a kind of a stern way, but respectful as well. I think that's really important, and you're gonna get the respect back as well if you do go about it that way.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, it's important to I think when some people where some people go wrong, in my opinion, with disciplinary action is they make it about the the person. So they almost make it about who they are rather than how much it's impacting the team and what is it that they're actually doing that impacts the team on an operational level, because that's the problem. The problem is the outcome isn't getting done to what it should be getting done because the person isn't doing the role properly. It's not about who they are or what they are, it's about the way that it's impacting the team on a negative level. And I think it's really important to for the day that you have to do it, it's really important to build that case first and actually have things noted down that that staff member is actually doing that's impacting the team in a negative way. But yeah, it's a difficult thing to do, and people underestimate it. And I think one of the most difficult things to do is especially when you're on the team, say, for example, before you went into your foreman role, the most difficult thing to do is to go from that position into the management role, and essentially overnight you're you've gone from being amongst the team, essentially, to leading former peers. That's a very difficult thing to do because you're once in the in all the banter, you're going out for beers and like kind of stuff, and then now people will naturally look at you in a different light because you're in this management role, because you're in this leadership role. I don't know why people get funny about that, but it's a real thing. And did you find you had problems with that at the very beginning? And are you more comfortable doing it now? I guess giving instruction to your former peers?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think being in this, yeah, it definitely did struggle with it at the start. Yeah, going, I think I created a pretty good work culture now. I yeah, it I definitely did struggle with it, but it is something that I'm getting better at, and obviously a lot of the the staff members that we have at the moment have have been in the industry for 30 plus years, so obviously you could say to a certain extent that they potentially have more industry experience than me. So that kind of was a little bit difficult at the start, me telling them what to do, but I think ultimately they've actually been really good with me as well and very welcoming, which has made it a lot easier to transition into this role.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, nice, and I guess that obviously all plays a role in your mental capacity too, right? So when we talk about bringing stuff home, just work-related stuff, and you're it's easy it's hard not to bring this stuff home as well, like you knowing that you've got to brief the team in the morning or knowing that you've got to you've got to deliver a disciplinary action conversation the next day or something, that's the kind of stuff that you do take home, I reckon, as a leader as well. And we did touch on mental health briefly before, but I just want to talk about you as a leader and your mental health. Do you find that when it is when things do get stressful or or when something bad is happening at work, do you find that you stay pretty solid or do you find that it does start to impede on your mental health as well?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Uh look, I think not necessarily really impede on my mental health, but I think taking it home that these stresses is can be difficult. Yeah, it can be difficult, but I think a part of being a leader is showing that how you do deal with the stresses as well. And if you do show everyone that you're getting stressed out, then it may impact you know back on the team as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

So obviously, mental health is a big thing in the industry and in life, and I think the more that we talk about it, sometimes you don't really need all the answers either. It's just about just talking about it and having the conversations and understanding that everybody goes through these difficult times with it with whatever role, really. It's not just about leadership, it's just in life. You definitely have uh a pretty solid head on your shoulders, and I think the way that you talk about leadership, you're definitely on the right track and you have a good view on what staff need. And I think putting your team first is really important, and I think yeah, you're obviously focused on doing that as well. Yeah. So I guess to close out the pod. What what advice? There's a couple of things in this question, a couple of aspects to this question. So it's going to be about advice for young leaders in the industry and what you can offer them. But I want to actually make the questions more specific. I want to talk about what advice do you have? What habits do you think are good to start to develop in your leadership role to make you a competent leader? And do you have a process in the way that you approach your day? So when you go to work, do you have a bit of a a thought process that you do? Do you have any habits that you do that that actually make your day perform a bit smoother? And what advice can you give around that?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah, so what I've I actually received the advice from my boss in Aiden Jolly. He when he came back on board, he really emphasized to me that he wants me to write down on on our whiteboard what we're going to do for the week. And that's actually really helped me a lot to really organise the week and then the upcoming weeks, work it around weather advice. Yeah, that's really a big advice for me, and that's helped me a lot is really just writing down what you're gonna do. Not having it all in your head. And if you keep it all in your head, you're just gonna forget things and you're gonna not do the things that you kind of wanted to do for the week. So that's been really important for me.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Nice, that's good. And where do you think the young turfees that are coming into the industry? So someone that's obviously just starting out, maybe, or one or two years into it, not quite at your level just yet, but in the earlier stages of their career, where do you think they should invest their energy? So whether it's certain courses, invest in finding mentors, is it more just hours on the tools and getting runs on the board? Like, what do you think they should be investing their energy into?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, I think being out in the field, you that's where you're going to learn the most. And something that I want to be as and really put into to our employees is I've said it before, just ask questions. If you're I've I'll continue to say it, if you have to ring me 15 times a day, I'd rather that to to really if you're confused about anything, ring me, ask me to come out and show you. More than happy to do that. And I think asking questions is it would be my advice. And ask as many questions as you can. And even if it may sit you may think that you're gonna be a little bit annoying at times, but I think if you continue to ask questions, you're just gonna show your boss that you're interested and they're gonna really want to invest the time in you as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, yeah, it's not so much about slugging it out, and the more hours you do, the more respect you get. It's more about having interest and actually being invested in the overall goal.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, and I think yeah, I think if you show you're invested, as I said, you're gonna get the time put back into you as well. So that that was really important for me. Yeah. Just really doing and doing the one percenters as well. Doing the things that that I done that helped me get into this role is is just go and do the things that no one wants to do. Put your hand up and say, Yeah, I'll go do that. That's it needs to be done. Just just let's do it kind of type type thing. Yeah. I think that would be a a big it plays a big yeah, a key factor.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Nice. Final question. If you could look back now and say if you could view your younger self, so if you view back to how many years you've been in the industry now?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Probably all up around six years.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

So let's go back to year one and you're viewing yourself when you don't know what to do and you don't know where you want to go, you don't know if you want to be in turf anymore or what you want to do, what avenue you want to take. What advice would you give your younger self now, knowing what you know now?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

I would probably say when things are when you're think there would there was there would have been times that when I was first started and I was doing these jobs, I would have been thinking that this is something that I'd but I think the more and more that you just continue to do it and show your interest, you're gonna yeah, I'm I'm stumped with that question as well, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

But I guess it's an in it's an in-depth question and happy to help you drive it a little bit. But I guess the purpose of the question is looking back and saying all those times where you thought you had no direction and you thought you had nowhere to go, there's something that I think about for me personally, is that it's all good, it's gonna be okay, it's gonna work out, but you've just got to work out for me. I think the advice that I give in that question is you've got to work out what you want out of your own life, you've got to work out what what drives you, what gives you your passion, what gives the fire in the belly, all that kind of stuff, and follow that. Don't follow what other people are always necessarily telling you to do. And always making sure that you're doing what's right for you only. It's not about doing what's what suits others and what other people think you should do because ultimately you're living the life that you want to live, and you're that you're not serving anyone else, essentially. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, cool. We're at the end of the podcast now, and I just I just want to say obviously, thanks for coming on to the podcast. And it's if you haven't done something like this before, it's it can be nerve-wracking. But again, I think just showing that but there are good people in the industry as well, and there are good leaders out there that want to do well for their team and put themselves out there and really put their head on the chopping block, essentially. People can criticize all they want when people go into leadership roles, people are quick to criticize, especially in Australia, but they don't understand the challenges that it brings and the exposure that it brings, the constant thinking power that it brings. You're constantly on, you're switched on all the time, and people don't see this. A lot of those people that give you stick are going home and enjoying whatever they're doing, but they don't think about the stuff that you're having to go through as well. So I think the things that you've said about culture, the things that you've said about your career and where you want to take it, the lessons you've learned, I think you should be really proud of yourself. And I think you you've come a long way and obviously a long way to go, but you know that and you're willing to work hard at it. Yeah, I think you're doing really well for the industry, and I think there's an opportunity for guys like you that had the head on your shoulders, like you do, in this industry, to really be the next generation of driving that forward and being someone that the younger guys look up to. That's all from me. Anything else you want to add?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

No, I think we've touched on everything. I appreciate you having me on, and hopefully, yeah, if you're the younger generation can look at it and yeah, really, I suppose, look. I think this is an industry that is a really good industry, and you can go far in it if you really want to, and that's something that obviously I want to do, and I'm quite lucky as well. I've got a really good team and leadership around me that's guiding me in the right direction. Yeah, which everyone has years of experience within the racing industry, and something that it's something that I am passionate about the racing industry, and it doesn't have to be the racing industry, it can be in any industry as well. So, yeah, I'm quite lucky that I do have the amount of experience that's really bringing me up as well. So, yeah, quite fortunate and yeah, appreciate you having me on.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

No worries, cheers, mate. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Thank you, mate.