Reiki from the Farm™

Marma Points, Reiki & End-of-Life Care with Michele Denis

• Pamela Allen-LeBlanc/Michele Denis • Season 6 • Episode 18

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Can we impact the flow of Reiki?  And what is involved in Reiki for end-of-life care?

In this episode of Reiki from the Farm, I sit down with Reiki practitioner, teacher, and Michelle to explore marma points—the ancient energetic gateways from the Ayurvedic tradition that may help direct and enhance the flow of Reiki.

We discuss how working with marma points can support grounding, intuition, emotional healing, and a deeper connection to the energy.

We also explore Michelle's work as an end-of-life caregiver–things like presence, compassion, touch, and the sacred role Reiki can play at the end of life. And what can the dying teach us about living, healing, and what truly matters?

______

Pam Allen-LeBlanc is a scientist, businesswoman, and Licensed Reiki Master Teacher (LRMT) with the International Center for Reiki Training.

Get in Touch with Pam:
pam@reikifromthefarm.com
www.reikifromthefarm.com

______

Michele Denis has been teaching and studying Reiki since 1996. In 2008 she opened the Westcoast Reiki Centre in Vancouver BC  out of a desire to provide ongoing support and continuing education for Reiki practitioners. She has been a regular presenter at Omega Institute’s Wisdom of Reiki Conference since its inception. Prior to that, starting in 2002, she was a Summer staff teacher and part of the Core Mediation faculty. 

In 2010 she returned to a previous love of Vedic studies and trained in Yoga Therapy. She was part of Semperviva’s Yoga College teacher training programme where she developed and taught their Yoga Nidra programme. She also created and taught Body/Mind Integration in the Vancouver School of Yoga Therapy.

Today she lives on a gulf island with her husband and dog. They spend their time singing, gardening and watching birds.

Get in Touch with Michele:
medenis@icloud.com


A special thanks goes out to Music from Pixabay for the intro music and to Nate Miller for the meditation music. 

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pam@reikifromthefarm.com

Pamela

Hi, and welcome to the Reiki from the Farm podcast, brought to you by me, Pam Allen Leblanc from Hidden Brook Farm. I am a scientist, a businesswoman, and a licensed Reiki master teacher with the International Center for Reiki Training. Each week in this podcast, you'll be entertained as you learn about a wide variety of relevant Reiki topics, helping you become a more knowledgeable and effective Reiki practitioner. We caution you, though, this podcast may also dramatically improve your life, and we are so happy that you're here.

Speaker

Welcome to this week's podcast, where I'm speaking with my friend and fellow Reiki Master, Michelle Denny. Michelle has been one of the co-creators of the Wisdom of Reiki Conference, and she had such wonderful and juicy tidbits to share when we were at Omega together just a few short weeks ago, that I really wanted her to have an opportunity to talk with all of you about something called marma points, and also about her end-of-life work and any other thing that crops up as we're talking. So welcome, Michelle. I'm so glad you're here.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Pam. It's very delightful to be here and I'm a little nervous.

Speaker

Oh gosh. That's so sweet. I think that if it's any consolation, when I first started doing this I was really nervous too. And what happened is energetically I was told to do this weekly, and I thought, "Weekly? Oh my gosh, how am I gonna do weekly?" But I really believe one of the reasons for doing it weekly is that if I did every two weeks, I would still work really hard to make sure it was curated and perfect. But by doing it weekly, I had to get really used to doing it and not always being totally prepared. So-

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, that, that makes sense. Yeah. It's a practice, right?

Speaker

It definitely is. Before we get into it, I just want to let people know that I have a HealthCare Reiki coming up July 11th and 12th here at the farm. Now, for this class, Tracy Sullivan is traveling up from Connecticut. We will be offering it in person and online, and we will be together. At this point, we don't have any other HealthCare Reiki classes booked or planned. But it would be a really great one to join us for if you feel guided to. HealthCare Reiki has just changed my life, and it seems to be changing the life of a lot of people who work with it. Just releasing anxiety, causing us to become our healthiest selves. So really look forward to sharing that with you. Then in August, starting August 8th to 14th in Campobello on that little island off the coast of Maine, I have several classes, three weeks worth a- actually. And on the Monday in between the level one and two and master class each time I've got you going whale watching if you want. We're going to go to tea with Eleanor Roosevelt. We're going to visit the Roosevelt cottages and estate. And also just go for a hike on the beautiful island, have dinner together. It's a gorgeous island in the middle of the Bay of Fundy with the highest tides in the world, and it's, it is off the coast of Maine. It probably should have been an American island. But funny story, the guy who was the cartographer at the time was terribly seasick, and rather than go out and draw the line he said, "Give it to Canada," because he wasn't feeling well. So would love to have you join us for Reiki one and two and masters August 8th to 14th. E- either one or both of those. Or Animal Reiki one and two and masters August 15th to 20th. Or Animal Communication for Reiki Practitioners 1 and 2, Professional Pra- Practitioner and Master Teacher, August 22nd to the 27th. In September, I'm heading to Hong Kong to teach Animal Reiki 1 and 2 and Masters, as well as Healthcare Reiki. And in October I'll be back at the farm with Reiki, Animal Reiki, and Animal Communication. And if any of those speak to you, I would love to see you in class. Michelle, do you have anything coming up that you'd like to let people know about?

Speaker 2

Nope.

Speaker

I don't. You just said you're cutting back a little bit as we

Speaker 2

were talking about- I am cutting back a little bit. I'm emptying out and just doing some planning for my own personal growth, or excitement. Yeah. Right now that's my focus is this trip that we have, my husband and I have coming up.

Speaker

Can you tell us a little bit about that trip? 'Cause that sounds fascinating.

Speaker 2

Years ago I heard about this thing called the Sword of St. Michael, and I was named after that. So I just became fascinated by these, shrines and monasteries that h- were consecrated to Michael, some of them like 1,000 years apart in being, being built, but they all are on a ley line starting in Western Ireland ending in Israel. If you go Sword of Saint Michael, you'll see the map of them. We won't do the entire thing right now. For o- for obvious reasons, w- we're not going to go to Israel. But we are hoping to do the first few of them, and it's a big trip. It's a big trip for the two of us, but we're very excited and I hope we can pull it off.

Speaker

That sounds amazing. Yeah. I just... I had to pull it up as I was listening to you. It is a exactly straight line.

Speaker 2

It is a straight line, and the the sh- the... the one in France, Mont Saint-Michel, is equidistant. The one in France and the two in Italy, and I believe the one in Rhodes, they are all equidistant, and they were built hundreds of years apart from each other. Okay. And how this even happened is divine as far as I'm concerned, and I love being in that kind of energy of mystical energy, of mystery and how people get inspired by something to create something like that.

Speaker

Something big is gonna happen, I think, on that. That sounds really important and interesting and so on. Yeah. Yeah. So

Speaker 2

that's why I'm not having any classes planned at this time.

Speaker

That's perfectly fair. I I hope you enjoy it, and at the same time as you're there I think I will be in Japan and- That's

Speaker 2

great

Speaker

plan to go on to... After I'm teaching in Hong Kong, my husband and I will go to Japan and visit Mount Kurama and Usui's birthplace and just- Yeah just visit around Kyoto and Osaka-

Speaker 2

Yeah

Speaker

in Japan. Really looking forward to that, i'd love

Speaker 2

to do that too someday. That would be

Speaker

beautiful. It's funny. I wasn't really called to do that until now, and, but I, it was if I'm gonna be in Hong Kong- That's- that seems like the time to go and visit there. I'm just gonna invite everybody to go ahead and bring their hands into Gassho and just activate your Reiki energy today. And even though you probably don't know what your marma points are yet, just allowing the Reiki energy to flow through to your marma points, and just helping us to open ourselves to just that beautiful flow of Reiki energy that We are so blessed to be able to turn on and access whenever we need it. And if there's anything that needs to be cleansed or cleared from your energetic field at this time, just release it with love. Allow the energy to take care of you for you And if there are any cords and connectors to any energies that are not yours or they're not, that are not of you, we release those as well We take a moment to say thank you to each other To Michelle, to the Reiki energy, and to the teachers that have come before us, and the descendants who will come after us, we are so blessed to be of this lineage of light bringers creating wellness on the earth today. Aho and Namaste Thank you So I always find that grounds me. I get so excited talking to my guests about Reiki. And I also find that for the listeners, it just helps us pull the parts of the conversation that... and hear the parts of the conversation that are very pertinent to us. And because Reiki and our words in these teachings always meet people where they are at that time. So Michelle, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us today. You talked to us at the Reiki conference about marma points, which I have to admit are something that I knew nothing about and hadn't heard of. Why do you... First of all, how did it come about that you started working with marma points, and how do you find that they impact your Reiki?

Speaker 2

First one, I- I'd like to just add to what you said about the beginning. When we do an invocation like that, we create a coherence, right? And that was absolutely beautiful, Pam, and I can feel everybody who's either watching this live or who will watch this afterwards, that we are all part of this incredible coherence that's coming together. And this work is so important to create that field, to strengthen that field. And so moving forward we can just take that energy out. I just love that. Thank you. That was great. Oh,

Speaker

thank you.

Speaker 2

So marma points. They came to me intuitively before I knew anything about them.

Speaker

Ah.

Speaker 2

And I didn't yeah, I didn't know about them at all. But I did know when I was practicing on my clients, and I've... I'll just use my arm as an example, that I found that as I was working on people, that I would just run my hand gently over their, when I was looking for the boysen or scanning, and I would just notice that there was always these d- little depressions where tissues meet. And I would just instinctively press, just very lightly just press. And then I would put my hand on those places, and I found that the Reiki seemed to flow stronger. And for my clients, their experience was that the Reiki was stronger.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

So it was... I did this for years. I w- there's a point here, and I didn't know that, but I'd take people's hands and I would just touch that, and see- And

Speaker

for people listening, she's, she was holding her-

Speaker 2

Oh, I'm sorry

Speaker

her upper arm before, and now you're

Speaker 2

holding her wrist Yeah. And now it's just the wrist. Just the base of the wrist, and f- front and back. Yeah, so I just started playing with the body. I think part of it is that I was first trained, before Reiki I was trained in massage therapy, so I like working with the body, so I like touching the body. And it just found that these, there were these little places on the- body that just seemed to instinctively run the energy stronger. So that I did for many years, and then two things happened at the same time. One was that I was at Omega and I found a funny little book. I probably should stop calling it a funny little book. I found a precious little book. And I think it was by an East Indian Reiki teacher about... Master Navarro, I believe was his name. And this man, and this book was written probably, I don't know when, I don't even remember when, and I can't even find it anymore. It's almost like it appeared and it's disappeared. But that this man was saying, this teacher was saying that the secret of Reiki lies in the marma points. And I thought, marma points? What is that? And then I went to a Vedic textbook, an Ayurvedic, and I found that the marma points were all these points that I was just depressing naturally.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

So that was the aha moment for me, and I just started diving deeper and deeper into that to understand more. And then as I got... took my training as a yoga therapist marma points come up again and again. So let me just tell you what marma points are. And bear in mind that I'm not an Ayurvedic marma point therapist. I... Big disclaimer, I just t- knowing where they are and depressing them, and I let my intuition usually guide me. But interestingly, they are junctures between different types of tissues. So if you think of a, like where two muscles meet and then there's a ligament, and how the muscles And what I'm doing is I'm making a depression with my hands. So you would have a long, two long muscles, and then it would depressed, and there'd be either a little overlap, or sometimes there's a ligament. That joint that meeting of two tissues is where a marma point is.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

Okay? So if you were to take your hand, and later we'll do a little meditation, you would just run your hand down your arm. You would feel certainly where the elbows are. Like, there's marma points all around the elbows because that is tissues meeting together. Down your fore- your upper arm, there's one midpoint, and if you were to run your ar- your hand down that you would feel that, and that one is for vitality. So if you were to look at a a drawing of marma points, there's many, and they correlate to the nadi points, which are something very similar if you're doing Chinese acupuncture. That's probably the best way to think about it, is that they're like acupuncture points. So they're like gateways that once ignited or opened, they are a bridge between the subtle world, the energetic world, and the physical world. Okay? So with acupuncture points, it's a very exact science. It's a very... it's a needle point. What's the beauty of marma points are is that it's more of an area. So most, the smallest marma point would be just one f- one finger dimension width. The largest can be all your four fingers. So y- you can't really make a mistake, yeah, accu- acupuncture, you have to be exact. Marma points, you don't exactly have to be exact. You have to know the general region to do it. So I just started incorporating it into my, more and more into my Reiki practice, and then I started comparing notes, and I looked at Usui's manual, the handbook of Mikao Usui, and I looked at his hand positions for his head, and all of the hand positions are over marma points.

Speaker

Of course they are.

Speaker 2

Of course they are. This is the thing is that all of these systems h- inter- in... there's connections between all of these systems, right? So the other... the biggest marma points that we all know about are the chakras. So those are marma points.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

And y- while they tend to be more in the energetic, the etheric body, there, there is a placement on the body where if you were to touch where each of these areas were, you would help to open up again that channel between the two of them. The two realms. But the one that excites me the most, and I think the first time I presented this at Omega was probably about maybe the s- second or third year of the Reiki conference, I can't remember now exactly, but it was while I was doing the presentation that the light bulb went out, just like boom, a- in my head as I was presenting it, is that when we bring our hands in Gassho Mudra, right? We're in Gassho, and we press our fingertips together. What we're doing is we're opening up the marma points in our fingertips. Oh, my gosh. So we are... I know, right? Isn't that incredible? It's just so cool. Yeah. So we do that. We prepare ourself, and what we're doing is we're connecting to the subtle realm. We're asking the Reiki to come through into the physical, and we're opening up the gateway. And then when we put our symbols in our palm of our hands and we tap them, that is the marma point in the hands. It's so cool. It's just so cool, right? And then when we take our knuckles of our thumb and we touch our third eye and ask to be guided with Reiki, we're touching the marma point in our third eye. We're igniting our intuition. And then if we drop it down to our heart to connect to our heart with our, again our thumb, we're doing the heart center marma point.

Speaker

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2

I just think these type of connections are... It's like the sort of Saint Michael. They're so cool, how did this... it's just so beautiful how all these things come together, so I, I just ended up, I always work like that, and when I was actively teaching with my students, I would talk to them about marma points and obviously more, just some basic ones. But to get them used to the idea that there are energetic channels that we can use, that we can open up. And yeah. I hope that answers your question.

Speaker

It is. It's fantastic. And it's... I love when I see overlap between sys- Yeah then I feel that quite often, we're all working toward the same thing, and quite often when there are different modalities, different systems it's just different language to describe very similar things. And I don't know. I just love to see that overlap, and I love to see the happy coincidences. To me- Yeah the coincidences are a sign that, something really interesting or cool-

Speaker 2

Yeah is

Speaker

happening. And so you really noticed that that the energy would flow stronger when you- Yes were just lightly pressing the marma points. And when we were at Omega, you had... you gave us a diagram, and you had us just lightly touch the marma points and then run- Yes Reiki. And it was quite lovely both giving and receiving-

Speaker 2

Yeah

Speaker

of that. Yeah if there were just a few marma points that, in our self-sessions, that you would want people to know about, what are they and what do you find that they do?

Speaker 2

I think for me the primary one would be in Gassho Mudra. Okay. When you bring your hands together in palm position. 'Cause if you're giving yourself a safe, self treatment or giving it to somebody else, you're opening up the gateway. And this is not to say, of course, that Reiki doesn't happen if you don't do this. It does. My own personal experience and from those who engage with this as well, we just all find that we have a little more intimate connection with it. Okay. We feel it a little stronger. It, it's also very grounding. So I, I don't want to in any way imply that it doesn't work without it. It does. Of course it does. But there's just this je ne sais quoi avec, right? It's

Speaker

like an amplification or something.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like an amplification. And before I... i'll tell you this. So the fingertips- For sure. And I love touching my third eye. Because there I'm asking the Reiki to guide me. And- And that, that just opens it up. And again, if you're doing self-treatment, that's really beautiful, and the one in the heart. The other one that I would recommend is and I apologize, I, I'm not gonna go over all the names with them. You can look them up. It's not necessary to know the na- it's good practice. I like being a student and learning. It's good practice to know the names, but trying to pronounce the Ayurvedic names,

Speaker

could

Speaker 2

be tricky. But I encourage people, as Bert would always say, "Don't be sloppy." Do your research. There is a big marma in the sole of your foot, and so when you think of sometimes when we in Karuna Reiki, when we put symbols in the sole of the foot and we tap the foot, wow, that one is immediately grounding for me. So if I'm feeling like I, I need to get grounded and I just, I tap the sole of my foot. Also, in between... So in be-

Speaker

in between your- Still holding her foot up. She's definitely still doing yoga, guys. In

Speaker 2

between all the- My foot doesn't go that high in between all the toes- Yeah those are marma points too. You can just play where the joints are. Oh, that's interesting. And then you can just... Yeah, and then you can just give yourself Reiki, and that's really grounding, right?

Speaker

So you just lightly press, and then you put

Speaker 2

your hand- Very lightly

Speaker

and then you just- And put

Speaker 2

your hand

Speaker

on put your Reiki, and then put your Reiki hand on.

Speaker 2

If you were to go for a marma massage by an Ayurvedic practitioner, that's a whole other thing where they will use the marma points, and they will massage them in particular directions, and often using oils to stimulate things. We don't need to do that with Reiki. We just need to open up the channel. So think of it a r- Reiki is the river perhaps, and then there might be a dam and, or the, a, like a gate, and the gate opens, and the water flows through.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

And it also creates a, helps the the container. So it seems to me that for me I can direct the Reiki a little bit more.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

Okay? Now, the other one that I love, and this is the one that my, I get the most comments from my clients on, is the one down the thigh. So if you were to take your hand starting at the top of your thigh, and please remember that this is subtle energy we're talking about, so the lightest of touch is where you're really gonna feel this. Just being very curious and just drawing your fingertips down the front of your thigh. And about midway you'll see that there's a little indentation. Yeah. So this is the one if I would gently press that. So I might often... I'm backing up for a second. I might o- often start by just giving Reiki, and then I'll go back and I'll depress that spot, then put my hands on it, and people feel it's like on a rollercoaster. Suddenly they're like foosh. Wow. So that's a really good one. A really good one to get the flow of the energy going is that middle one. I like doing that on myself too. And then the other one I talked about at the conference is if you were to take your knee, so I don't know if you can see my knee, but what I'm doing is I'm bending my knee up towards my chest and I'm creating a cup with my hand. And I'm putting that cup over the knee, and there's these points around the knee called the janu points, and you just twist your hand around and feel it, dig into it, and you'll see that all these little indicate... indentations are all marma points. So that helps- to also start working on the knee. And if you were to take the, your other hand on the back of your knee- And you hold that top of your knee with a cup Whoa, that's a really good place for s- for energy that gets stuck, because all the meridians go down the back of the knee. So if we have stuck chi, stuck prana, stuck ki, it's the back of the knee. So you really wanna work with that.

Speaker

I have had issues with my knees since I was a teenager. Oh. And so yeah, I think this is for me, Michelle. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and it's probably... Actually, now that I say it, it's probably easier to feel if your knee isn't bent, if your leg is straight.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

Then you might feel those little pockets on the kneecap a little bit easier, and then put your hand on the back of the knee. Press the back of the knee, because there's one big marma point back there. So press the back of the knee, and then just run the Reiki through there. It's hard for me to do this and start ta- keep talking, because I g- I go into this zone.

Speaker

That is fair. Yeah. I am definitely, and I'm feeling a little bit of kinda some painful spots behind my knee, which is telling me that, and that's maybe where it's perhaps this stuck energy around my knees that... People always ask me, I've said, "Yeah, I've had problematic knees since I was a teenager." And they say, "Do you do Reiki on your knees?" It's no. Honestly- Do Reiki on everything else, but not my knees.

Speaker 2

Honestly, Pam, y- your knees are, the back of your knees is almost the most important thing, because just think- Okay of the energy coming down, right? So the energy's- coming down, and if it gets stuck at the knees, I don't know how many... if you've had this experience working on people, but you start working down the front of their legs, and then it just feels cold like ice from their knee down to their foot. And the f- their foot, y- does... You can tell the foot is, they're not grounded. There's just no energy going down to the foot.

Speaker

And I've noticed a lot of people, when you were talking about the bottom of the foot, that mudra point, I was like, oh, isn't that interesting? Because I notice that a lot of people go around especially people that are tapped into the energy, and our energy kinda starts about our knees. A- and it should be, And I've actually watched Reiki pull it in and button it to the bottoms- Yeah of their feet. It reminds me of that cartoon of Peter Pan where she- Yeah sews his shadow onto him. Yes. It's just buttoning the energy into the bo- Yeah especially with Karuna Reiki.

Speaker 2

I know. I love that with Karuna. That's- My favorite.

Speaker

And,

Speaker 2

and I think that is my experience with people, people who love energy, and I'm an energy junkie. It's the realm I like to live in, but we have to be in our bodies. In many ways, that's what moved me into becoming a yoga teacher, was because I was always outside of my body.

Speaker

Out there. A lot of people are. And,

Speaker 2

and we need to ground that energy. In order for it to really start, working in the planet into this dimension, we need to be in this earth plane. And so grounding the foot, getting that energy to run down all the way through is really important. And especially when a lot of us probably right now wanna flee this planet or, we wanna get, get off of it. But we really have to be here as anchors. We have to be points of light, and that light has to be grounded all the way down to the center of the earth

Speaker

That is so true. In these chaotic times, we're needed more than ever, and-

Speaker 2

Absolutely

Speaker

I love that. I love that thought. You've got me curious. I'm thinking about where are the marma points on my horses, and on my dog. Oh, for sure. For sure. So I'm gonna have to look that up now.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and what a fun exploration that will be, right? It'll be so cool to see if they notice. Oh my God, you have to let me know- I

Speaker

will

Speaker 2

if they notice.

Speaker

I will. I'm gonna I am gonna absolutely go and give this a try, yeah.

Speaker 2

I would encourage those of you who are listening to just Google marma points and there'll be a you'll get a image of a person and you'll see just how many, there's like hundreds, there are all over the body. So it's, it- it's fun. It's a playful place to, to play. It really, it is. I- I,

Speaker

I really like it. I, seriously, I Since you've mentioned it, I've been, just lightly pressing around my knee, and I'm like, "Ooh, there's a lot of sore points there." So there's definitely some stuck energy there. Thank you for that. That could make all the difference. I will not need a knee replacement.

Speaker 2

No. No. If you do but do some work first.

Speaker

Gonna do I'm gonna do the work. Definitely. Do you have a favorite marma point?

Speaker 2

I think the one on the thighs.

Speaker

That one. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Is the one I really love, just 'cause I had an injury there myself, and where the injury was almost exactly on the marma point, so I've got a real major dent there, so maybe that's why. But I like the one on the thighs, and I'm I f- for me, that's the one that's the most grounding, even though the foot feels good. But I know when I start spinning out, that if I open up that marma point and just put, give myself reiki there, that that's-

Speaker

It pulls you back in

Speaker 2

pulls me right back in. Yeah.

Speaker

Yeah. I love that. And is there anything else you wanna mention about marma points before we move on to your work with end of life?

Speaker 2

The gift for me in this is that I allowed myself to be curious when it first started happening. I didn't try to I didn't question what I was doing or I didn't say, "Oh my God, this doesn't feel like This is outside of how I was taught how to do hand treatments." I just allowed myself to respond intuitively to a body that And the person, the first one I, started playing on they were open and receptive, and so I just allowed it to go. So I really I think if there's something that you find interesting or exciting or curious about, that you should explore it. That, that we don't- You know, Reiki is a living thing, and we don't wanna keep it in a container that is, that it's outgrows. So I just encourage everybody to, if something tweaks them, look into it. Try to explore it. And as far as marma points go- I have fun with it, try it and see if it makes a difference for you, and even if it's just one or two of them, and see what your clients say. I think that's all I really w- really wanna say about it, but I am grateful for having found it in my practice and in my life.

Speaker

Yeah. I think there will be people listening that it will really resonate with Michelle, and speaking of, you, you mentioned that marma points is Ayurvedic, but that it correlates with Chinese medicine, and do you notice that that, that many different modalities, they do talk about- They do Similar things with different language, and I love that. I think that it's important that it exists because it might make sense to you from, in one, from one place or in one genre where it wouldn't necessarily make sense- in another,

Speaker 2

that's right. I know for my yoga students who don't know Reiki that was an interesting c- way for them to connect with Reiki.

Speaker

Oh, cool.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Like, all of a sudden it's oh, okay, yeah, I see. I'm feeling something. There's a

Speaker

crossover with

Speaker 2

Ayurveda. Crossover, right? And I think we're gonna see more and more of that- In the future, that we're entering into a time of really interesting exploration where the subtle realm and the... The subtle realm is gonna reveal itself to us more and more. The earth has marma points.

Speaker

What?

Speaker 2

Wait a minute. Of course. The earth is a living thing, so the earth has marma points. Of course. Oh, gosh. It's just like when I was, This is just one little aside, but we had a forest behind us, and when we bought our place, and several years into it, the forest was clear-cut. And I was in the cabin. It's a little log cabin. I was in the cabin. I heard every tree that came down. The cabin shook with every tree that came down. I witnessed it over four months as that, as the Caterpillar machines got closer and closer to the edge of our property, took down all the trees. It was devastating. And then what happened to me a- afterwards is that I would start, every time I was meditating, I would see golden filaments, like underground, reaching out to everything, spreading and reaching, and just, it was like electricity under the ground spreading all over the place until it reached me, and I was part of this electricity that was spreading. And then all of a sudden not, it wasn't all of a sudden, but over time I started seeing other things in the meditation where sprouts of life were coming up, and I realized that what I was seeing was mycelium. That the underneath, the mycelium was trying to repair itself, was trying to regrow. And that's when I understood that the mycelium of the earth is like our fascia in our body.

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 2

And our fascia is the electrical system. It's the, it's where all the subtle realm really connects to us and how- You know, that's what they believe now that is, is what carries the acupuncture points, what the mar- marma points are. It's this network that we have the same as the Earth. So when I made the connection of the mycelium being the Earth's fascia, it was I got I was It was one of those moments where I was talking to a yoga student of mine about it, and it just came out. I had never thought about it before. It just came out, and an energy pushed me across the room. It was so powerful. It was just like, that's it. So the more that we start appreciating, the Earth as living in the way we're living and that we're part of it, but not like in The Last of Us where we turn into mushrooms. Not like that. So anyway.

Speaker

It's funny, mycelium and being the fascia of the Earth has come up in healthcare reiki as well.

Speaker 2

Ah, fantastic. Yeah. Mycelium- See, we're all-

Speaker

we're

Speaker 2

all coming to these things at the same time.

Speaker

Yeah, and it's come up as very- It's all these different- very important, mycelium in the- Yeah interconnected. And it even talked about it, like similar to the internet, the mycelium is- That's

Speaker 2

right

Speaker

a way- Absolutely to communicate with the entire planet and all of the plants and animals on the planet. And-

Speaker 2

Isn't it cool?

Speaker

It is. It really is. It's

Speaker 2

Very cool.

Speaker

Yeah. It's it's Yeah, it's fascinating. And speaking of, by the way it was a clear cut near me that I was walking through, and just it was devastating. It had been the most beautiful forest, and what was left behind was just-

Speaker 2

World War I. Looked like a World War I battlefield for years back here.

Speaker

It looked terrible, and that was what, That was when I heard the message that I was to run for the Green Party. And in the next provincial election was, as I was horseback riding with some students- through that. The students were mostly young people, and they were really visibly upset. And that's when I very clearly heard that I was to run for the Green Party in the-

Speaker 2

Wow

Speaker

the-

Speaker 2

Oh, wow

Speaker

the There was an election going on, a snap election going on right then, and I went, "Oh no, am I supposed to run right now?" And I heard, "No, you're supposed to run in four years' time." So it gave me a little bit of time to get used to the idea.

Speaker 2

Oh, wow. I understand the power of that. It changed me.

Speaker

It does. It does. Yeah. It's really hard to look at that devastation of of these incredible living beings, these trees that bring us oxygen, that, that allow us to breathe and be here on the planet. And it's, it is difficult to experience actually, so- It's, And y- we were talking about, as we're talking about end of life for the trees, another thing that showed up, although you didn't speak about it at the, at Omega, and so I, I wanted to touch on it in our podcast together, is that people were very interested in your end of life work. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how Reiki led you to end of life work and what it's all about?

Speaker 2

It wasn't Reiki that led me to it, it was my mother's death. Okay. My mom passed away when I was 29. And she wanted to die at home, and so I took a leave of absence and cared for her. It was a life-changing moment for me- to for all kinds of reasons, but to the moment when she died, to see the animating force leave the body and then to see what was left I was forever changed in that moment. And I left the life that I had been living at that time and started- I don't know, I guess I started searching. And from that is I finally came to Reiki.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

So that's how it happened. And then with, because of that experience I seemed to be in positions where, and because of the Reiki where people would be having loved ones die, and they would want me in the hospital with them. Whether it was for the person who was actually crossing over, or whether it was for the family. What I provided was a steady presence. And it just ke- I never went looking for it. I never asked for it It just seems to be something that I do is to help people, or be with people who are in that very vulnerable stage at the end of their life. Helps the family, but brings a certain level of dignity was the thing that I realized. And I remember one woman said to me that not everybody can do that kind of work. In some cases it required primary care, just because I was the only one around, and the person who was dying needed that primary care. And somehow I can do that. I don't, I And I do feel, for me, that that is the gift that Reiki has given me in being able to be, to have cultivated a level of presence, and calm, and spaciousness. And to be in a place like one of the women who I worked with who was dying, I always said to her that I, I was very concerned about my ego, and that I didn't want to become I didn't wanna I didn't necessarily like talking at places or putting myself out there, because I didn't wanna jump into my ego, or I was scared. And she just looked at me and she says, "When you're doing Reiki your ego is never in it." And I started to see that, and that was really true, is that when I'm in that very sacred place with a person, I am really just presence, and that is from having cultivated 30 years of Reiki.

Speaker

Wow. That's and I think Reiki would probably support you- yes in the work as well. Yes. Not just support the people around you, but support you as well. Yes,

Speaker 2

absolu- that's what it does, right? Is that it- In that place, I can move my ego aside. I can put my personality aside. I can put my triggers, my judgments, my all of that aside. And I can just be an empty vessel and be there for that person. And one of the m- the last woman that I worked with, I was with her for six months. She was dying of stage four breast cancer that she had elected not to have any kind of treatment for. I don't exactly know what really led her to that, but it was a remarkable experience because And I had to tell her that, if I was in her case, that's probably not the choice I would make. And I don't know, but I do know that's probably not the choice I would make. But that didn't matter, because what mattered was her choice. And this was her journey. And, I'm older, and maybe when I was younger I might not have been able to do it with the ease that I was able to do it now. But it, it is something that being able to put aside yourself and showing up for whatever that person needs is what really matters in the dying experience. So it's not just so much the moment of death, although sometimes I'm there just for the the last few days in hospice. But in this case, more often than not it seems that I'm tr- I'm journeying with people as they prepare to die. And what I did wanna share about this last this last experience was that one of the things that I did with her was Holy Fire Meditations. The, I love them. I love doing them and the l- the last one, her-- we had been told, her doctors had thought that she had still a month, a couple months left to live. I I knew she didn't because I've seen enough, that I knew she was ready. And the last day I saw her, I decided to get, do the River of Peace with her, and she never woke up, and she passed away.

Speaker

In the River of Peace?

Speaker 2

No, in the next day.

Speaker

Oh, in the next day. Okay, but s- The next day but yeah. She did- But it almost sounds like she remained in the River of Peace.

Speaker 2

She did. That's, that is what I felt. That is exactly what I felt. Wow. So I feel that there's a place there, a really interesting place for you guys to, for me too, I hope. But anyway I just really felt that, like, when I read that meditation and I sat there with her and I could just see she dove. She just dove deep.

Speaker

Wow. That's incredible, Michelle.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker

I-

Speaker 2

I know it. It was it's gonna make me cry. It was really beautiful.

Speaker

Yeah. I can feel that.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker

That-

Speaker 2

So that's a gift. That is, to be able to, oh my God, to be able to help somebody cross over in that place and I, I guess I've been lucky because I've been able to hold s- spaces like that through grace with people. And I think it's a really we're all getting older. Our genera- my generation is, like we're all getting That's one thing we're sure about, we're all marching towards the end here. More and more seeing it as a, as an embrace of the unknown, seeing it as, entering into a, the final mystery. And but also what I found with this last, my last client, I don't know if I'd call her a client, but the last, this last experience was that And this I had so much trouble reconciling, 'cause I didn't know her before she passed away before I, I was with her. And she, because Reiki creates such a spa- safe space, such a container, she went through her life. She told me things about her life. She went did deep deep work, like real healing work. And after she passed away I saw all this Facebook stuff about her, and like I didn't even know that woman. It was I didn't know who I couldn't That wa- looked like such a big persona compared to this other, what she was showing me. Not that wasn't her, but i- I just was like, wow, I never knew that woman. I knew a totally different woman.

Speaker

Isn't that interesting? Yeah. It sounds like she showed you her authentic self.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean- What, how much gratitude do I have, going for that? Like that, it is it's not work for everybody. I do think it is a calling. And sometimes I think you just fall into it, which is how I feel. Like I feel like I just fell into it. I don't know. I know that there are offer trainings in doing it. I don't know how you train somebody in doing it. To me, training in something like Reiki helps you to do it.

Speaker

Yes. I would think. I- Yeah I really would. And what are some of the biggest misconceptions? And, what are some of the biggest things that stood out to you in doing this work?

Speaker 2

I think and this I would say from quite a few of the people that I've journeyed with. They want to still be part of the day-to-day life. It's I know when my mom was dying, my brother would say to me, he'd come on the week, "What did she talk about? What did she She didn't There was no big thing. There was no, philosophical things. It was just, let's listen to Jeopardy. Let's- What are you making for dinner?" M- my experience with people who are at the death edges, they still want to be part of life in some capacity, right? There So I think there's also this thing that we have to talk loud or that we have to say something. I rarely talk. I rarely talk. In fact, I Active listening, if you wanna call it that, but just creating space for somebody else to talk, and I don't need to say I don't need to, I don't need to give them anything. I don't need to give them anything but an open heart, and just and love, and I think that we all feel like we have to fix it somehow, or we have to, I know I like Say something that they won't be scared, and it's none of that. It's none of that at all. It's just about being absolutely present to what's going on for them. That is the only thing you have to do. And quiet. We got so much noise everywhere all the time. Just that beautiful, peaceful, the holding of a hand. And I This woman, I would Even when I couldn't really, we're gonna Always held her hand, right? That knowing that there is that human connection too is really important.

Speaker

That's just beautiful, and sometimes I think one of the biggest gifts that we can give someone is for them to feel seen and heard. Absolutely. And it just sounds like you're, as you said, you called it creating the space. You're creating the space. You're an active listening. You are seeing them, and you are hearing them. They feel seen. They feel heard. Yeah. They also feel your, that, that pure presence.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think, the And what I would say to all my, in general to all my Reiki students and regardless of what you're doing is, you do your work outside of that situation. If something comes up for you, you don't look at it then. You don't sit there in the silence and think about things. You say, "Okay, thank you for bringing this to my awareness. When the session is over, I'll go home and then I'll do my work or my own work around it." While I was working with this woman, I found out, that I needed a breast biopsy.

Speaker

Oh.

Speaker 2

And my mother died of breast cancer, and I'm high risk. So I had And it took s- almost six months for me to get the biopsy. This was almost like the whole time that I was working on her I was waiting for my own biopsy. Wow. And because the type of cancer that she had by the end of it her breast would have been totally eaten by the cancer, and I was working directly there, so I was seeing what cancer can do un- untreated in that way. So I really had to work with myself, that I couldn't bring my own fear, my own whatever was going on for me, that it When I was with her, it was about her, and it wasn't about me. It was tough.

Speaker

That was- It was

Speaker 2

really tough. That was- I'm glad to say that I finally had the biopsy a week before I turned 65. It was clear it was tough. And I had to do a lot of Reiki to And I had a lot of Reiki done on me, but not on her time.

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 2

Not on her time.

Speaker

Can I just say as an aside it shocks me that you are 65.

Speaker 2

Yay, Reiki.

Speaker

Yeah, yay, Reiki. Yay, Reiki. Absolutely. Yay, Reiki. You know- I would think that doing this work would have to change you. I would think that it would have to change the way that you live, that it would give you an appreciation for things. What have you noticed there?

Speaker 2

I really try not to sweat the small stuff.

Speaker

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I know that's cliche, but it's really true too. I also I've also dec- made clear, clearer and clearer boundaries with what do I need, and, if something's not in alignment with me, I used to probably be like, "Oh it's okay. I'll, I'll go along because it's for some..." But now it's no, this is what my one precious life. And if I'm living it authentically, if I'm living it to the best of what I know my soul needs, then the people around me will only benefit from that, right? So I think that, that really taught me I am someone who, sometimes wakes up in the middle of the night and I fear annihilation, it's like the idea of what happens to your... it, this doesn't mean that even though I'm very comfortable with other people dying, I'm comfortable with me dying, it's... That is a work in progress for me. But I also cherish my relationships, and I cultivate my relationships if I g- to the best of my ability. If I want... If you want me to be in your life, and I want you to be in your life I do my utmost to make sure that it's meaningful. And the other thing with that I would say is that if I realize I don't have space, then I'm trying to be honest about that. I really enjoy your company. I really love hanging out with you, but right now I just, I really don't have the space for that. So rather than trying to dilute my experiences by having many experiences, I try to refine.

Speaker

I like so much about what you said and something that really stands out to me is my one precious life. And yeah, it really is precious, isn't it? Yeah. It's,

Speaker 2

even if we think there's another life, this life is what really is what we know.

Speaker

This moment right now- This moment, is all that we have, and-

Speaker 2

This moment, this breath

Speaker

this breath. That's so important.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker

What would you, what advice would you give to someone who has Reiki and maybe there's someone in their life that is failing or getting ready to cross? What would you, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 2

Give me a second here. I've gotta close my eyes and think.

Speaker

Yeah.

Speaker 2

That's weird. What came to me was be not afraid. Be not afraid, right? That you are being held. If you are asked to step into that place, you will be held.

Speaker

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And yeah. And it's okay to be... It's okay to think you're gonna mess up, that, what am I, what, people, what do I say? What do I do? How do I handle it? All of that is okay. But be grounded, be open, and remember it's not about you. It's so not about you. When you are in that space, afterwards yes, but when you're in that space. And if you feel that, you're there only for a little bit and then you have to leave because you can't hold that level of presence, that's okay.

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 2

That's okay. Even if it's just five minutes, going in and holding their hand and just s- asking, "Is there something you need? Is there anything I can do to make you more comfortable?"

Speaker

Great advice, Michelle. If there was one practice, one thing people could do today that would help them live more fully, help them die more peacefully, what would it be?

Speaker 2

Oh my God, Pam

Speaker

I know, sorry. Just only that,

Speaker 2

just a little question. No, that's a good question. It's a and, I look to myself and, I think if I was in that place and I knew that my end was near I would just ask myself, r- remind myself to think of all the joy and all the love that I have had in my life. Don't think about what I haven't had in my life, what I've missed out, or what I feel I've haven't had. Think about all that I've had. All the richness that I've had. That It has been an amazing life,

Speaker

and if somebody's not coming toward the end then it sounds like you're saying cultivate that richness.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. Absolutely. Find the joy in the small things. Find the joy, like for me, with my dog and my husband and the flowers and the birds and, nature is our greatest gift that helps us to get outside of our, ourself. And look at the sky. Just look at the sky. And e- even now in this very heightened place we are in the world, if you can just stand firm like a tree where you are and look up and just feel connected to where you are, and just allow yourself to expand beyond the limits of our physical body and merge with that sky, with the nature around you. And yes, not being in a city helps to do that. So go out in nature and let nature be your mom, right? Because there, there's no judgment.

Speaker

Yeah. I think that's I really love time in nature. I love time with animals and all of that. It's just it's almost like you're stepping outside of time or you're- Yeah I don't know. But it- And,

Speaker 2

and

Speaker

be- It's the pure presence probably Yeah.

Speaker 2

And be quiet. You

Speaker

know?

Speaker 2

Turn off the phone, turn off the devices. Turn off Oh my God, I should not say this, but my husband's gets up in the morning, radio is on, TikTok is on, all these things are on, and it's just shut it down. Just shut it down, so we There's so much demanding our attention, right? So give yourself five minutes a day with nothing- Nothing demanding your attention, and just sit. Just sit.

Speaker

I think that's great advice. I the men in my life can be a little noisy too, and I really am one who appreciates the quiet. Like- Yeah it's nothing for me to drive. And I do like audiobooks or podcasts, but it's nothing for me to drive long distances with nothing on the radio.

Speaker 2

Imagine that. You're just with your own thoughts, and even those can be like too much too, but- yeah, just get rid of the stimulus as much as possible, right?

Speaker

And, I think that's

Speaker 2

so important then you start seeing the world differently. And you're satisfied with simpler things, right?

Speaker

What is it that Wayne Dyer always said? When you change the way you look at the world

Speaker 2

The world changes.

Speaker

That what you're looking at changes. The world- Yeah that you're looking at changes or something. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker

I love that. Michelle, this has just been such a rich conversation. Would you like to bring us home in the energy today?

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker

Okay

Speaker 2

okay. I think what I was gonna do might be a little bit different, but let's just do something and see what happens.

Speaker

Okay.

Speaker 2

All right. I like that. All right. So let's just bring our hands together in Gassho Mudra. Let's open up our fingertips just by putting a little bit of pressure on each of our fingertips. Oh, and those of you who have symbols and who wanna p- maybe do the Choku Rei in the center of your palm, and then just tap it into that marma point there. Oh, that feels so good. And now bring your knuckle to your third eye, and just put a little bit of pressure there. And let's just invite the Reiki to guide us and to be present with us in whatever way we're needed to be present today. And then let's drop our palms to the center of our chest to our heart chakra, and again, just a light depression with your knuckle. And just feel that expansion of your heart chakra. Take a deep breath in through your nose and a soft, long exhale through your mouth And may the words that we have heard today reach us in the places where we need to be reached And I'd just like to close with my meta meditation that we even use as a grace for table right now May all beings be free of fear and harm May we all have exactly what we need May we be at peace with whatever comes our way And may we rest gently in the softness of our own hearts Thank you for listening today. Thank you, Pam, for having me

Speaker

Thank you so much, Michelle, and I just wanna say thank you to all of you listening for the beautiful light that you're spreading on the world. You're making a difference just by being who you are. Namaste. Thank you, Michelle.

Speaker 2

Thank you.