"All our stories have songs" w. Babatunde Akinboboye (PART 1)

Babatunde Akinboboye, known online as @babatundehiphopera, became a viral sensation when he started blending his lifelong love of hip-hop with his budding interest in opera. Today, he's built a multi-faceted career that gives him the best of the concert hall and the digital stage.  In this candid convo with host Khadija Mbowe, Babatunde talks about overcoming preconceived notions, stepping into his full identity through music, and feeling profound, glowing alignment.  



Chapters:

[00:00] Introduction
[01:22 ] How Babatunde parlayed his love of hip-hop into singing opera, and viral content.
[04:22] Cross-cultural upbringing
[05:20] Getting peer-pressured into men's choir
[08:08] What does alignment feel like?
[10:27] Creating a home in his art
[13:00] Social media origins and evolution
[18:00] Trade-offs between stage and screen
[20:49] How his Nigerian mother changed her tune about his career choice
[22:51] What music was in the house growing up?
[28:17] In-depth lightning round



Music from this episode:

Babatunde Akinboboye, Avant ~upcoming~

Babatunde Akinboboye, Cortigiani (Rigoletto) from Della Citta EP

Babatunde Akinboboye, Largo (Figaro) from Della Citta EP

Babatunde Akinboboye, Tanti Beat

Links from this episode:

Babatunde's website: https://www.babatundebaritone.com/

@Babatundehiphopera on TikTok, IG, and Facebook

Babatunde's Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F07VAXKXGWE

What's that white song that gets you turned up?: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1294117107744192/

Babatunde x Kendrick Lamar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F07VAXKXGWE

The Philadelphia Orchestra’s HearTOGETHER series is generously supported by lead corporate sponsor Accordant Advisors. Additional major support has been provided by the Otto Haas Charitable Trust.

Transcript

AVANT

Hello and hi! Welcome back to the HearTOGETHER Podcast from The Philadelphia Orchestra and Kimmel Center Inc. This is a space where we hope you’ll find home in this art we all love. I’m your host, Khadija Mbowe and I describe myself as a socio-cultural content creator, classically trained soprano, and loving provocateur. And I’m here to facilitate some heartfelt, engaging, disruptive conversations with artists, activists, and everyone in between (that’s you!)

The music you heard in the intro was Avant, created by our guest today, Babatunde Akinboboye, known to the millions who’ve seen his content online as “babatundehiphopera”. He’s a classically trained Baritone with a soft spot* for art song and operatic works written by African and African American composers. But he’s also a life-long “hip hop head,” —

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Up until I was introduced to classical music, I only listened to hiphop. Like people were into like hiphop and r and b. I didn't do r and b, just hiphop. And so I got to opera later and that was my first exposure to like real harmonies in dealing with music in that structure. And so I would be in rehearsals and still have opera stuff in my head coming out of rehearsals, but I would, in my car, I'm playing hip hop. And so I would often sing the opera stuff to the beat of whatever I was, uh, I was listening to. And so, cuz that's actually how I learned my first aria as Bartolo in Le Nozze de Figaro, I had this patter aria, and it was so many words in Italian that I had to memorize. I couldn't get the “Se tutto il codice, dovessi volgere, se tutto l'indice” until I set it to a beat. Then I was like, “Se tutto il codice, dovessi volgere. Se tutto l'indice, dovessi leggere, con un equivoco, con un sinonimo, qualche garbuglio, si troverà”  and, and I had, so since then I've been kind of using little hiphop tricks in my opera, uh, just to work on rhythms, even like melodies and figuring out tricky intervals, uh, and stuff like that.

So I came out of a, a rehearsal and I'm singing Figaro’s aria and Humbled by Kendrick Lamar was playing. And I started kind of singing it over the beat and it lined up like perfectly. And I was like, even all the transitions in the beat lined up with the transitions in the song. And I was like, so I put my phone up and I recorded me singing it to the beat, and I put it up online on my personal, like Facebook, because I wasn't really using like social media back then. And I woke up next morning and it was the first time I'd gone viral. I'd never experienced anything like that. And so within a week I got a phone call from, like, Ellen America's Got Talent. I got an interview with Time and people were like, Hey, do another one. And I was like, okay. Uh, uh. So I recorded me singing another aria over another hip hop track, and they're like, yeah, this is dope. I'd buy an album of this. I was like, would you really? So then I crowdfunded a small EP of like three songs and put that out. And then I grew like a huge fan base. And so I was like, wow, okay. And then started calling me the hip hopera guy, uh, because the music couldn't really be called anything but hip hopera. It just lent, it was too easy. It lent itself to that. 

CORTIGIANI

That was Cortigiani from that first EP Babatunde mentioned — it was released in 2018 and is available on Spotify and Apple music. And honestly, the way Babatunde blends influences feels so natural it’s tempting to take it for granted as a foregone conclusion — an obvious stylistic evolution. In reality, getting to that sweet spot in between worlds took many years of feeling like an outsider without a firm sense of home. 

*DRAMATIC HARP*

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I was born in the US and was raised in that culture just enough to understand what was going on before I was moved to Nigeria, Lagos, Nigeria, which is the most populated city in on the continent of Africa. And kind of thrown in the deep end, essentially, of that culture, if you will, and at a very formative age. So the combination of the culture shock and absorbing this new culture. And when I was around 13, I moved back to the US and with that understanding of the two cultures, it gave me an interesting perspective of the world, especially being a black person. And so since then I have been exploring, exploring all the entertainment that is offered. By that, I fell into becoming an opera singer, <laugh> on accident,

KHADIJA MBOW: 

And fell into?!

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

<laugh>. I, I, I fell into it. It was, uh, well, I was pushed the, I was initially pushed and then I just kept rolling. Uh, I was in high school, <laugh>, and one of my friends told me we were signing up for classes. One of my friends told me to sign up for this one class men's ensemble. And I was like, what is Men's Ensemble? Because at this point in my life, I didn't know that there were classical choirs outside of the churches in Europe. Like I knew that they had 'em in Europe, but I figured they were just in the churches there. Like it wasn't a thing that was done arou. Like I, I didn't have a lot of exposure to classical music. And so the idea that there was one in, um, in the, in my high school in southern California was wild to me. I, it, it wouldn't have ever occurred, but, so I signed up for the class and realized it was a singing class, freaked out, but stayed because all my guy friends were in it and I didn't want to look like a punk. And so

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

<laugh>, this is a very different, uh, didn't wanna look like a punk <laugh>. ‘I stayed in Men's Ensemble’, <laugh>.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I mean, they were all there too. They were there and it's like, we were all scared and we were all like, awkward, but whoever, like left first would've been the, the, you know, the one that, that that gave up. And so we're all there. We're gonna see how this works, and it's okay. And it was a room full of like, nothing but guys. And like, we're all <laugh>, we're all like between the ages of like 16 and 13. And so we don't really know where we're supposed to stand, what's cool and not like, what are we, like, there's no leader, just all sheep stuck in a pen. And so, so started doing it and I fell in love with it. Absolutely fell in love with It was, I was hooked, kept wanting to sing in choir. I was like, I found out that I could sing in choir for a living.

I was like, cool, professional choirs. That's all I wanna do. And then, um, in college I was taking a voice lesson and my voice teacher suggested that I, um, uh, I try, I, you know, ‘have you considered opera?’ And I was like, opera? No, that's, it's boring. It's, it's la it's weird. Like I didn't, I didn't know anything about it. I was like, no. And so tried a few things vocally and ‘Laaa!’ became ‘LAAAAAH’ and then I was like, okay, hang on, <laugh>, there might be something to this. Like, okay, let's see how this goes. And he's like, yeah, yeah, this is competition. Try out the little, do that little competition. So I did it and I won and I felt good. And I was like, okay. And it's like, you know, you should apply to Cal State Northridge, you know, they have a great vocal performance departments next door.

Go ahead and apply. I applied, I got in, I had my audition, and they asked me to, and then they, right after my audition, they asked me to be in the opera that they were doing that year and, and told me I made it into the school. And I was like, okay, this, this, this is fun. And the more I learned, the more exciting it was. And the more I kind of have a big personality. And so an opera stage felt like a big enough arena to house it mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so it kind of felt like home as well, uh, <laugh>, but it wasn't the plan.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Um, this may seem kind of weird <laugh> to, to ask about though, but I'm a technique-girly. I love to learn about technique and singing. How does it feel for you when you are singing at your best in your body, when you feel aligned? 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

It feels, um, this is, this is a weird analogy, but just roll with me. Um, okay. It feels almost like, like I'm, um, think of, I'm gonna go with, this is the only creature that's popping in my, I'm like searching for something else that works and I'm getting nothing else. So imagine me like, uh, being a fairy, one of those fairies that can like, glow, like the, there's a glow from the inside. And depending on how nourished they're being by whatever they're doing, usually their art, um, it glows brighter and brighter. But every now and then when it, when it resonates with like what it's doing, a hundred percent, it doesn't glow from the inside, it just turns into light. And I feel like my entire bot being just like becomes in line with the, with music feels too simple. It just feels like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like the, this feels the sound so woo woo, but like the creative energy, creative voice. It's just like creativity. We're just like, I don't know, art, if you will. Yeah. And it feels like I'm, I'm right where I need to be and it's just like all of me is resonate and it, and, and it feels beautiful to keep it simple.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Oh, that, oh sorry. That really, uh, I love the idea of it not glowing from the inside, but just being light. It's all around and I know what you mean about it, sounding woo woo <laugh>. But singing is, I mean, yeah, you gotta be a little we know To sing. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Yeah. We know the scientific way of singing, but not everybody fits with that cuz it's more of a feeling. And I, I wanted to ask that just because when you said you went from ‘laa’ to ‘LAAH’, I was like, okay, cuz that's a different, that's, uh, that kind of sound takes up space, not just as a singer, but as a person. Yeah. And I wanted to ask you, because you have such a different background, you've lived in not like so many, but at least two majorly different places, two majorly different regions. What, in terms of you being able to take up space and find that space for yourself, was it easier to find that home, let's say in Lagos or home in California?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Oh, neither, in both, I’ll explain. Okay. Um, and I think this is a common thing that happens with, uh, third culture kids, if you will. Or, or yeah. People who were born the first generation where for a lot of my life I simultaneously felt not Nigerian enough and not American enough. And so when I was in, when I went to Nigeria, they made fun of my American accent. When I got back, they made fun of my Nigerian accent. And I always felt a little, and oddly enough, I think I, I have my art to thank because working in classical music for so long, there's a lot of training to do things a very particular way. And you'll find a lot of classically trained artists in any field. Uh, when they try and move to like a more popular style, you can still see the classical training or ‘hear’ the classical trainer, whatever, kinda show up.

And so <laugh>, yeah, we have that. And, um, from going from a purely training class, classical training to creating my own art and, and having to, it, it sounds exciting being the boss and being, having full creative control. Uh, but it's also terrifying when you're used to having someone tell you what to do. And now you have to be that person and you have to do all the figuring out on your own. And it requires you to fully really step into yourself and really get familiar with you so that you can bring you to your art. And in that journey, I realized that, um, I <laugh> in, uh, to put it simply that I'm, I'm, I'm correct. I'm whole as I am, like meaning mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm not supposed to be a certain level of Nigerian, a certain amount of American. I what I am is, is exactly what I'm supposed to be.

I'm, I'm a hybrid of both and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which gives me ownership of both. I can claim both. And when I, when I realize that, um, it gave me permission to fully be myself all the time. And so when I'm in Nigeria, whichever accent I'm speaking in is the way I want to speak. So how I want to communicate whatever I communicate, my mannerisms, everything, my, for whatever reasons I've been told all my life that some of my gestures can be a little effeminate, and now I'm much louder with them because it's, it's, it's all part of what and who I am. And as an artist, I, I love all the juxtapositions and all the, the, the different elements that make me more interesting. Yeah. Uh, I, I I I, I need to allow myself to be that loud and strong because it makes <laugh>, it makes my art more pleasurable to me, and it makes it easier for others like me to find me relating to my social media.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

And speaking of social media, because how I was introduced to you and how I think maybe a lot of folks that maybe are familiar with you were introduced was this viral video of you in a car, <laugh>. And I, I think, what was the question of black people? What's a song that makes you like <laugh>? Can you, that makes you go in or go hard or something like that?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Uh, what was it? It's something like, uh, what is that white song that makes you, that gets you turned up? That's what it was. What was

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Something like that? Yes. Okay. Yes. Black people. What is that white song that gets you turned up? And my friend, another singer, another black singer soprano, she sent me the video and I just <laugh> love you in the car screaming with your whole chest Queen of the <laugh> Queen of the Night Aria <laugh>, like just cheering her on. Like, you better hit those high Cs. Let's go. It was, it was just, I could see the joy and the love from every part of your body. And it's so beautiful to me that you've talked about having such different mixes of backgrounds, of feeling like, okay, I'm not Nigerian enough. I'm not American enough. I'm not supposed to do classical music, but I'm doing classical music. There aren't a lot of black people, so what's going on here? And you just showed up as yourself and it just seems to have taken off.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

That was one of those videos where I really was really like stepping into myself and allowing myself to just be, because <affirmative>, my reality is because I came to opera, I was already like in my twenties when I had my first operatic voice lesson. And so I came to it late. So I still have the, the years of like, the typical popular exposure to opera. Like the first time I remember hearing Figaro’s aria Largo al Factotum was in the opening scene of Mrs. Doubtfire when Robin Williams Oh, yeah. As the little, uh, he's doing the voiceover work for the Little Bird. And so now being in the opera world and actually knowing that, for me, I, I'm simultaneously like, okay, the technique of this have to get the words focus on my breath support. And at the same time it's like, ‘Hey, that song for Mrs. Doubtfire, I know all the words to that now’.

Yes. And I, I'm living in both of those spaces. And so when I hear songs like The Queen of the Night Aria, like for a lot of opera people Yeah. They're kind of tired of it because Sopranos are can sing it, do sing it, because very often, and so we may hear it over and over and over, but for me there's still the excitement of like, it's that one opera song. It's one epic song that sounds like, it's like, it's like, yeah. So every time I hear it, it's still that excitement. I figured like, for a lot of us, that's, that's probably still true, but as opera singers, we usually have to remain dignified for whatever reason mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I like to

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

or analyzing the technique of the singer, sorry to interrupt you. but that happened. Yep. <laugh>.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE: 

Oh, don't get, Yeah, yeah. No, it, it's, ugh, don't, don't get Me Started <laugh>. And so I could just be, just let the excitement shown the feeling about how it feels inside when we first hear it, it's like, yeah. 

LARGO

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

So it wasn't just that video, obviously nothing is just one thing to get you where you are <laugh>. Sure. But it was still that blending for you of two things that seem completely different, that seem like they shouldn't <laugh> mix together and make a good salad dressing, so to speak.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah. <laugh>. But they do, they do, just like my experience being, I thought, oh, I'm not African enough. I'm not American enough, but I exist. And it's like, maybe that balance is what it's supposed to be. And so hip hop and opera, like relating to me, relating to each other in me the way it does, I'm like, I'm putting it out that way because it sounds good. I like it. And it resonates with a lot of other people. I get a lot of people saying, mm-hmm <affirmative>, I didn't like hip hop, but I love this stuff. Or I don't even like opera, but I love this stuff. Or I don't like opera or hip hop, but I like this stuff. And it's, I, I don't ask any questions. I'm just like, if it makes people feel good, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep doing it.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

I wanted to ask you then, since you are in all of these different pots, what do you get out of performing live versus– or performing an opera still versus making content?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Oh yeah. There's definitely trade offs. Um, what I get out of performing live is it's kind of like, uh, the, like really getting to unfurl my wings and cut, like online I'm regulated to 9x16. Um, yeah. <laugh> on stage, I get whatever, whatever is on the other side of the red curtains, like I as online. Yeah. And so getting to cut loose like that, it feels like a, a place to roam free. That's what I get in a live performance. Um, what I get vice versa is I get to connect with the people online. And that's, that's something I miss as a, as a classical singer. Um, the audiences are typically very well behaved, <laugh>, um, outside are, are almost nervous to go attend an opera because they're not sure of the etiquette of an audience because there is, there's a behavior. Yeah. And so regardless how great what I do on stages are exciting or interesting or funny, I'm gonna get, I'm going to get, get what I call the LaCroix version of the reaction that that would normally come.

Um, whereas when I'm online, I get to connect with these people individually and get individual mm-hmm. <affirmative> comments or videos or, or or audio messages. And I can see it's kind of like I get to finish in the audience. I can finish a performance in the audience forms a single file line to tell me like, oh, okay, I love this part of the piece because blah, blah, blah, and this costume and your hair was doing a weird thing there. I don't know if you noticed that <laugh>. And then I get to go with each and every person in the audience. And as a performer, I love getting to connect with the people I'm performing for. I feel like that is one thing that I'm kind of missing with, uh, that I miss on stage in the live performance where I know they're there, but it's kind of like being on the other side of the glass. I'm like, Hey, like I'll talk to you later. Let me know what you thought. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. But online is kind of like right then and there, it's a little more intimate. 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

It, oddly enough, uh, seems more personal online in a way or like, yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE::

About a million followers. And it feels more intimate than when I perform for a few thousand or a few hundred <laugh>.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Right. It's weird. Oh yeah. <laugh> interesting. Yeah. Well, as a child of immigrants as well, first generation, I wanted to ask you, how have your parents or your mom received all of this notoriety that you're getting, all of the uh, uh, attention and opportunities, the work that you're doing? How have they received that?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

<laugh> It, um, some of the tropes about Nigerian parents are true. One of them being that they're not happy unless you're a lawyer, doctor, and engineer. The amount you're making doesn't really matter. It's, it's more about like what you're doing. So you like, that's just, that's the way it works. There is a loophole that no one talks about. If you get famous, doesn't matter how broke you are,

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

<laugh> ‘Talk about it, talk about it. Cuz all of a sudden everything you do makes sense.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

<laugh>. So if you're on the news, if you're on some, some li some platform that they, that is respected by their peer? Yeah. Then, then they're good. Then you make it so <laugh>. I will say that being a choir boy, wanting to be a professional choir singer for a living when I was in high school, yeah. That, that was, that was a little rough on my mom <laugh>. And as a result, me, um, then wanting to be an op, wanting to be an opera singer as someone who grew up in, you know, for, especially for my mom, she, there's, there was no way she could help me. There was no, like, she didn't know anything about mm-hmm. <affirmative>, where to start with opera. Uh, or even if it was like something that like was viable. Like, especially for someone like me, she's seeing opera. She's not seeing anyone like me. And then hearing I want to go in there, like, she's gonna do everything to make sure that I'm safe. And so that was rough for us as well. Um, we're good now. <laugh>, we're good now. A lot of therapy, um, and conversations. And luckily social media is like international. So now I feel like she's allowing me to do what I want and knowing that I'll be fine, which is interesting, but I'm grateful for it. <laugh>,

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

There's, there's a development of trust there, of, ‘okay. I may not get it, but you seem to be doing all right.’

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's almost like you're not gonna end up on TV if you can't feed yourself. So That's

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Right? The assumption, the assumption. <laugh>. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah.<laugh>.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

So what kind of music did you listen to growing up in the house? Like what was being played? If there was music.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

You know, my mom was a huge country music fan.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Wow.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

She loved country music. So what I listened to a lot of in the house was a lot of country music. I listened to like, the, the time of country music was like, uh, that ‘All my exes live in Texas’ time. Like that, that was when we were listening to ‘bring me, bring me two Pina coladas’. 

KHADIJA MBOWE:  ‘I got friends in high places.’ Gonna kick off the shoes around the,I grew up in Georgia. Oh yeah.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Woo. That's the jam. See that's Some country music that I listened to. And I'm like, Yeah. Do you know what I think it was? Because I was like, as I got older, I was like, why was this Nigerian woman obsessed with country music? <laugh>? Like my mom's, like my mom's accent is still very strong. She's lived in California for most, I think most of her life at this point. But she loves this stuff. And I think the one thing they have in common is are the stories. They like stories. Country music has good stories. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we stories are part of my, my tribe's culture. Like Yeah. It's a, it's, yeah, it's, and we don't tell any stories without a song. All our stories have songs in them. So Yeah. It's, so maybe that's what it is. She found like something akin to culture here and it's like, oh, song story is okay. And just latched onto those.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Oh, it's also cool too because it's, seems like it's nothing to do with the genre. It's just, uh, this is something that <laugh> sounds kind of woo-y as well, but Rumi, I was a philosopher, says, word spoken from the heart will enter the heart. And it's funny how a lot of times we will like not be interested in something like even initially not wanting to listen to opera or something because we think we see the genre before we see what could be behind it. What, yeah. Emotions or stories like you're saying, help it resonate to anyone that would listen to it if they get past the idea that they wouldn't like something just because it's X genre of music or whatever.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah. I, I, I a hundred percent agree with that. I think the reason it's, um, especially in the US there's a, well, I think just because of the planetary history with colonization and stuff, there is the element of like, um, that history, the history between the cultures that plays a part. Um, I say that because like, it's like black people's relationship to opera. It's usually because opera was, and still is very much practiced as the music of the elite, of the elite of Europe. Um, and black people in the US wholly considered the polar opposite. And so there's that. And I think the same thing with like, country music. I mean the, like, that's, that's, that's pretty self-explanatory. The, the fans of country music as opposed to like, and black people in our, our relationship. Cuz it becomes clear that like, like when music hits, it hits, it doesn't matter about genre. When we hear like an Indian song that that bangs or when Psy came out with Gangnam Style, it's like, it so, cause there was like, we didn't have the complication of the history or the relationships between the cultures to overcome. We just heard it and it hit. And I think it's easier to see when it's less complicated. Cuz I mean, music is an emotional thing and if there're emotions around, uh, you know, like I've been a big fan of some artists and then they do something problematic and I have trouble enjoying their music.

KHADIJA MBOWE

Oh my gosh. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Ugh. It all Factors in. 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

We're losing, we're losing some, some pretty great musicians that I really, I, 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

it's hard, It’s hard.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

It's, it's, I, My eye shuffle comes on, know anything and I have to stop. I have to like, it comes on and I'm like, I gotta skip this cuz it feels weird. Like, I'm like, I know that you are. And I know that's a lot of musicians, probably a lot of our composers that we love to sing, definitely they're not above being problematic <laugh>. Like they, we maybe don't have as much evidence and maybe that's why people say ignorance is bliss. But <laugh>

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

For real, we're learning that for sure now. 

TANTI BEAT

Hii, it’s me, Khadija, over Babatunde’s “Tanti Beat”— we talked a LOT more about music…and you know, I’m not sorry about it— you put two singers together I don’t know what you expected. But since that’s not everyone’s cup of tea, if you’re interested in Babatunde’s top 5 hip hop tracks and top 5 arias, head over to part two. 

Either way, stay tuned for our in-depth lightning round BONUS— we’re including it at the end of this episode as a little experiment. Do you like it there? Let us know! 

This has been the HearTOGETHER poem??? podcast from the Philadelphia Orchestra and Kimmel Center Inc. — ??? did this get cut by accident??

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

So I have a Series of questions for you. It's called an in-depth lightning round, but you can take a little time to think a little bit. You don't have to, you know, don't feel stressed.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Okay <laugh> I wanna see how lightning I can, I can be, I'm excited you,

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

I know you looked away and I was like, look at this competitive little, okay. <laugh> cracky. All right. First question, who makes you laugh?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I do <laugh>. 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

HA, BOOOO!

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I will literally sit in a room by myself cackling just like <laugh>, like, like literally coming up with scenarios and just like, surprising myself or catching myself off guard. It's how I make a lot of my content. Um, <laugh>, I was like, who makes me laugh consistently? Dion Cole.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Oh, who's Dion? Cole?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Uh, the standup comedian. He was on the TV show Grown-ish. And, um,

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Ah, yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. He, oh yes, <laugh>

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

And surprisingly remained unproblematical for all these years. Um, so yeah, but I, he's, 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

We love to see it

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Its like, differently funny, another guy who's like found this like, element of like, masculinity where it's not hyper-masculine, but it's still bold. And I, I enjoy it.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

I like that bold masculinity. Yeah. Not hyper masculinity.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Bold. He's hysterical.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Yeah. Ugh. I love that <laugh>. Okay. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Bring it. 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

What skill do you wish you had?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Oh, I wish I could draw.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Me too. Oh my God.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I wish I could draw the, like, I just be like, write my handwriting. Anything that involve, like, you think I'd never anything like You think I never Went to school. Right hand looks like my left hand. My stick figures are lopsided. I can't,

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

How do you get them even? <laugh>,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I don't get like, the perspective. It's witchcraft. All of it looks like witchcraft. I don't get, I could watch you draw something. I'm like, how did you know how long that needed to be first before the other? Like,

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Yes. Or like when people are drawing eyes and stuff and they have dimensions, I'm like, what is, I'm like,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

As soon as I like, I can draw a profile, just no eyeballs. As soon as I have to, as soon as eyes, eyeballs. No eyeballs. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This is gonna, you think it's gonna look better? It's gonna look worse.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

That's fair. Mmkay. What's a song you wish you wrote? I didn't mean to say that. So accusatory. Like, I was like, no, it's okay. What song do you wish you wrote?! Like that was weird. Um, <laugh>. Hey, what song do you wish you wrote?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Oh, <laugh> My Way.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

‘Ah, I did it my Way!’. That one? Yeah. The wow. My Way. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah. That song feels like I did. 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Oh, it's ver it fits. Okay. Everything we've been talking about this checks out

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

So much of it. It feels like I wrote the first time I heard it buckled me. Like, I'm not, like I'll hear a good song and like it and like get emotional, but this mess felt like, like I went into the future, wrote a song for me for like, and sent it to the past or something. Like, man, that song every word I was like, and yeah. Whew. Don't, I can't, I can't even like think about it right now. No.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

No. Okay. Okay. Okay. I love that. Yeah. What is the worst advice you've ever gotten?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Oh. Um, just suck it up.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

That's how invalidating like what <laugh>,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Because I, I did it <laugh>, you know, I was just like, oh, okay. I'll just, you know, I'll just go through it like, you know, this situation's unpleasant and it shouldn't be this way, but I'm gonna stay quiet and just, and then I realize that my life is a lot easier if I just correct the things that are wrong around me. <laugh>. Yeah. And if I can't be corrected, correct where I am.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Yeah. All right, last one. This is called the cataclysm sentence. <laugh>. So if the world, if human beings were to be completely wiped out because of some random cataclysmic event and there were a new batch of humans that were going to inhabit the Earth, what piece of advice would you give to these new people

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

In whatever you build, make sure your people come first.

KHADIJA MBOW:

Mm.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

In whatever society, culture, institutions, all of the above. The individuals come first. If it no longer serves the individuals, it needs to be corrected or done away with or adjusted. The people come first.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Mm. Mmm! Thank you cuz on that. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Thank you for having me

KHADIJA MBOW:

Taking the time to chat.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Thank you for having me. This has been a blast.

PART 2
Hi, Hello, Khadija Mbowe back for PART TWO of my conversation with Babatunde Akinboboye where we get down and nerdy about all things music. If you haven’t listened to it yet, I highly suggest you start with Part ONE where we cover a bunch of his biography, including how his lifelong love of hip hop merged with his late-blooming interest in opera. Now without further ado, let’s get into the music. 

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

So I wanna go back though, to you talking about being a hip hop head, because I wanna know, which, if you have to name top five artists, sorry. Gotta do it to you. Yep. This is an audio platform. Uh, Babatunde’s eyes just went wide. He looked to his left. Uh, not to impress my questions, but anyway, <laugh> Okay. Top, I want you to give me top five artists that you love, and then No, we'll do that first. I have another question after, but we'll do that first.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Okay. I'm gonna go, I'm just gonna like judgment free. I'm gonna go off like my track record and which artist was I listening to obsessively. If I've listened to, if I know all the words to more than two of your albums, then yes. Yeah.

KHADIJA MBOWE: 

Yes.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

First, first has to be Busta Rhymes. Um,

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Wow. Busta Rhymes.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

You see how people, if you're not a hip hop head, you'd be really surprised by that <laugh>, like, because a lot of us don't listen to Busta as much, but I,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Okay. Busta Rhymes has been extremely consistent for a very long time. It's gave us the same experience since when he was with Tri, uh, did the scenario with Tribe Called Quest to today. Okay. And, okay. He also gave me a lot of permission to just be like, I'm kind of like a big energy guy, and he mm-hmm. <affirmative> was that way in hip hop. He was just like, bigger than <laugh> every room he was in, and he was allowed to be. And so I loved him for that. And so I was, I I latched onto him, uh, pretty early. So, uh, and I won't give a diatribe for each artist, but, um, okay. I'll try not… So, uh, 

KHADIJA MBOWE:

It's cool. Listen, you can, if you want to.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

So definitely bus rhymes. Um, when, like, this kind of really hit, hit me hard when I was in classic, when I first got in the choir and was doing the classical music game. But Eminem, Eminem was one of my anchors. And oddly enough be I realized halfway through it was the experience of being from a different culture and then being, doing music in a culture that you're, that isn't typically your culture. Yeah.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

I've never heard anyone talk about Eminem like that, but it does make sense to me.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

It, it wa it that really was his experience. And he, I felt the same way. Like, he was trying, like, I felt like we were both trying to find validation in that industry. Like, yeah, we could find it outside. Like, yeah, if he went back, if he went to his people, everyone was like, yeah, excited or whatever, but he wanted, like, he was going to the hip hop radio stations to the, he wasn't going to K Rock or the, the rock stations. Like, he, he wanted that validation there. And that's kind of the journey, the journey. I felt like I was on, like, trying to figure this out. You know? I don't know his, well, I, I know a lot more of a story than I probably should, but, um, I felt that kinship. I know it's the same time. Like, I didn't have a lot of money, so he talked about being broke. I didn't have the best relationship with my mom. It wasn't as bad as his, but sometimes, you know, especially as a younger guy, he was saying the words that I, I couldn't say. So, Busta Rhymes, Eminem, um, oh gosh. You know, I, I, it's so cliche to put Tupac there, but it, I was, I was, I was, it was Tupac. Um, um, last two

KHADIJA MBOWE:

<laugh>. This is how you find out who you really, really love. Here we go.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

You know, you know, ludicrous. I'm definitely like a different generation. No one talks about this generation of like, of hiphop, but yeah, Ludacris for sure. Ludacris was so refreshing and so just dif like, I could hear, I can understand everything he was saying. It was, he was so weird, fun. And it's time when hip hop was like dark, just cuz like life was hard. But he was just so fun and he was still like, cool, respected. And it kind of like, I latched onto that. It kind of gave me permission to, oh, okay, I can't be fun and people will still dig it cool. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so yeah, definitely Ludacris and oh, Snoop.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Wow.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Absolutely. Snoop, Snoop has always been him. He's been so confident in him. It's never registered how weird he is to anyone.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

I, I mean it does to people that aren't in it. Cause I'm

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Likes, but you have to think past the experience of Snoop to get, like, he's a little weird.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

He definitely gives me weird uncle vibes. I'm like, what's going on here?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

May maybe, maybe, and maybe because when I met him he was like, like, I don't know, 18 or something like that. Oh,

KHADIJA MBOWE:

True. Yes. I always forget he's been in the industry a very long time.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Yeah. I got into hip hop, uh, Dr. Dre’s, the first Chronic album. That was my first album. My uncle snuck me the c it was my first CD too. <laugh> snuck me the CD and the parental advisory sticker was still kind of new. So my mom didn't know what I was listening to, so I just listened to very word. I was obsessed. And I was like, who's this Snoop guy? 

So when this album Doggy Style came out, I was like, listen to that too. I was like, this dude is, yeah. And so I've always been there. Anytime A Snoop thing. Yeah. <laugh>. It's, I find it interesting that it like Tupac, um, like so much West Coast and Oh yeah, that makes sense. I've lived on the West Coasts for most of my life.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Yeah. Cuz I was like, I don't know where Busta Rhymes is...

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Uh, he's definitely East Coast, but Okay. Okay. The Tupac, the Snoop. I was trying to like, I was like, am I gonna mention Dre? Just because no one really mentions Dre as a rapper, but for me, he was like one of my favorite rappers for a while, but he was my first.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Mm. Yeah. Wow. Okay. You okay? I guess you were kicking up a fuss, but you actually did that pretty quickly and like pretty

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Convinced. I feel like it took forever and it took, it did <laugh> honestly. I, I think putting, uh, like putting me like under the, uh, on the fire, if you will, uh, forced me to be really honest, really quick <laugh> and so

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Love that

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

<laugh> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, that's fun to know.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Okay. Can you give me top five Arias? Why are you looking at me like that <laugh>,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I will answer that to with you. I will almost

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Oh, you really? Oh, really?

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

That almost about, because very few people are as judgmental as an opera fan

KHADIJA MBOWE:

About Oh, ah. So, ah, okay.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

If I say yeah, if, if, if I say, um, my favorite aria, if I say my favorite song ever is I don't, it could be, uh, Gimme Some More by Busta Rhymes. It may say some things about me, whatever. If I say my favorite aria is O Mio Babbino Caro, it's gonna say a lot more about me to an opera person.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Yeah. Oh yeah. I know what you mean. Okay, that’s fair. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

<laugh>. That's right. Generally. This is what, well, this is, um, I'm gonna answer it. I'm trying to decide if I should preface it or explain it at the end. Okay. So my favorite arias are, um, the Queen of the Night aria.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Lakmé’s aria from <affirmative>, uh, Figaro’s opera from the Barbara Seville, um, Nessun Dorma. And I know these are cliche, but bear

KHADIJA MBOWE:

With me. A bop is a bop.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

A bop is a bop <laugh>. I'm sorry. Um, it's not an aria it's a duet. Okay. Um, then a Tu–

KHADIJA MBOWE:

The judges will allow a duet. The judges will allow a dot.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Okay. Turandot’s Aria, uh, that one and the Flower Duet from Lakmé. Those are my favorite. Those are, I think, some of the finest things that have ever been produced by opera. And this is why

I, one of person speaking personally, one of the things I think I started to lose in my, in the way I was studying opera or classical music was the relationship with music. I started to think of the score and the notes and the rhythms and what was here as a music. And I tr- and I had to like, I took a, like a journey all the way back to the beginning where for me, I felt like cavemen, if you will, were around. We heard some sounds in some order that elicited a certain feeling. And we, we started to refer to whatever sounds that elicited that feeling as music. And I think like whenever we hear like birds produce a certain song or whatever, eh, it could just be noise until it hits. Now it's music. And so we've started to call things like to this point where if we hear something that some good news that has nothing, it could be legal news or political news.

You hear it and we, if it feels good, we say, that's music to my ears. We still call it, we describe it as music because of the feeling it, it produces. It's like, and I think that is what, so as soon, like people, like that's not real music. That's not, if it does this for people, it's music. And I think honestly, the more people, the better the music un Unless there's another goal intended with the music, but if the music was to elicit feelings and you, they're selling out stadiums, I'm like, they're, they're winning. So those arias, I don't think will, those songs were never gonna go anywhere. You can play 'em in any context for any people in any culture for the most part. And it's gonna hit like out of context of the opera. You can do it on a piano, you can do it acapella like any of them.

And they're, they're, they're just fun for whatever reason between, I don't know what it is, it taps into something on a human love. That's why they're, that's why they've been singled out all these years by the populace to like, opera has this wealth of stuff and the populace of stuff. Nah, we're only interested in those things. Yeah. And because that's what hits cuz they know it'll work. And it's, those, those elements have, I think have been like the timeless parts of opera that like opera has been sustained by like, those few arias. I think those are the ones that brought, that bring in the new, the new audience that like, it's just the best stuff in my opinion, based on what I think music should be. Those songs have been the most successful in opera. And um, today when I hear 'em, they still make me feel the best. So those are why they're my favorite.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

That <laugh>, I'm stealing that. Thanks <laugh>. That is such an incredible way. Ah, it's incredible way to think about that. Of of, yeah. People do say it, it's music to my ears and it's just, but why? No one ask why. And it's like, you can't explain a feeling sometimes like yeah, you should be able to articulate your feelings. Sure. But you can't always, so, you know, it just being a feeling. And I love the simplicity of back in the day we heard sounds and it just seemed like, all right, because rhythm is one of the like first. No, well, I, I'm not okay. I have a music dream,

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Oh we can go there. 

KHADIJA MBOWE:

<laugh> we can't go there. I'm like, I haven't time to dust off the old bachelor's <laugh>, but it's, it's, uh, it, it reminds me as well of when you were going back to mixing the Figaro song and Humble and the way you were even just pounding on your chest and stuff. Like, we make music with our bodies, with our movements all the time, especially as musicians, singers, performers, all of that. It's a part of us. And it's so sad in schools, especially how we are taught to learn music that makes it so separate from it being music that it's just, like you said, notes on a page and measures and rhythms that you're learning. Do you have the right pronunciation that we get so caught up in the details of stuff that it, the details matter, but for some people, some performers and details

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Nearly as much as we make 'em, they don't matter nearly that much. Like, it, it's, it's, it's, it's very frustrating cuz I really feel, especially as a classical musician that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the, the score is being elevated as the music. Like what Mozart wrote was the music and I'm like, Mozart wrote this to cuz it was the closest he could, there was the closest meaning he had to convey what he was trying Yeah. To make happen. And so use this as a suggestion. Like, oh, I got this. Like, one of my favorite things that have ha has happened musically is like with jazz music, jazz has like the swung rhythm and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there is no way with the tools we have with Western music notation to accurately notate the swung rhythm a hundred percent. Like where you can plug it into a computer mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it'll just read the notes and rhythms and it'll catch it a hundred. No, we don't have the notation because it exists outside and, and I hundred and I, I feel like it's the last clue we have to show like less surviving clue that like, hey, maybe that isn't music. Maybe the stuff that's being created that people keep listening to. Like maybe that's, maybe that's the music and this stuff is just the suggestion of what that should be. That's frustrating. 

KHADIJA MBOWE:

Well, <laugh> it's also interesting because it's like, well the music is there, but the music is only gonna do so much if you don't have some to perform it. And I think yeah, computers can try. I know art and AI is getting a bit scary, but <laugh> and, and helpful. Some people are liking it and some people are like, uhoh, I don't like where this is going. But <laugh>, I, um, I really do think that like, it's gonna be hard to do that with music just because it, I, as far as I know, there isn't technology out there that can do the same thing like a human voice can to the extent of like singing. Do you know what I mean? Like there's something different Yeah. About muscles coming together to make a sound.

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

I, there, there, there are three things I used to say. Um, <laugh> I was so, I was raised very religious, but I'm not so much anymore mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But one of the things like I've hung onto is they, the, the three things that they keep saying are in heaven that we also have here on earth are love, music and food. And I think mm-hmm. <affirmative> that, um, it'll be hard to reproduce that art. Those things ar artificially in the same to the point where it'll still hit Yeah. When it's done by a human. And this is not like, oh, AI is done. Like I'm a big fan. Another saying, I have a bunch of sayings. Another one I love is that the only thing permanent is change. And so I, with like changing times and stuff like that, when I see the new, I'm like, okay, this is what I try and like figure out what it is and go along with it. Because all the stuff we're trying to defend now was a change that someone else was upset about before. Yeah. So yeah, if we just act like we know that and we can get used to this, the, the stationary state of everything being changing in a regular and on a constant basis, then I think it'll just simplify and give us a lot, simplify Our lives give us a lot less gr- a lot less grief.

KHADIJA MBOWE:

I mean, I can only hope because I do like you like technology, I appreciate it. But yeah, I do think that there's music and the feeling that it gives you is very, it's hard to describe. We're naming a very nebulous feeling. <laugh>. Yes. But the odd thing is, is I'm sure there are people out there hearing this that are like, I know exactly what you mean. And yeah. Anyway, uh, thank you for that. I'm going to be stealing that. 

BABATUNDE AKINBOBOYE:

Please.

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