Franchise Your Business

4 Ways Prospects Derail a Sales Call—Jared Lockwood with Sandler

• Big Sky Franchise Team | Tom DuFore

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You’ve probably been there before: the call is moving along, and suddenly the prospect takes things in a direction you didn’t expect. The agenda slips, time gets away, and you hang up realizing you didn’t get what you needed. It’s not just frustrating—it’s costly. 

This week on the Franchise Your Business webinar series, we're joined by Jared Lockwood, franchise owner of Sandler. He shares the Sandler Sales Methodology to unpack the four most common ways prospects derail a sales call and give you practical strategies to keep conversations productive, professional, and moving toward a decision. 

Jared Lockwood has spent the past 16 years helping individuals and companies achieve peak sales
performance. Before joining Sandler, Jared poured his energy into all the wrong sales activities. Although he found some success selling Yellow Pages advertising and later transitioned to selling employee recognition software and points programs, he knew he was falling short of his full potential. Along the way, he racked up plenty of humbling sales lessons—like the time he drove four hours to Evansville, Indiana, for what he thought was a key meeting, only to find himself alone at a cell tower trailer in the middle of a cornfield. The contact never showed, leaving Jared with nothing but an awkward drive home—and the painful realization that he had “happy ears” and a major qualifying problem.

Today, as an owner of Sandler, Jared is driven by a clear mission: to help others avoid the costly mistakes
he once made and to transform their sales careers through meaningful connection, mentorship, hands-on
training, and practical advice. He also empowers organizations to build a winning sales culture by
developing the right selling skills, people, structure, and strategy. He’s known for his no-nonsense, real

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Tom DuFore:

All right, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for another edition of our Franchise your Business webinar and podcast series. My name is Tom Dufour. I'm the founder and CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team and if you're new to us or you haven't been with us for a while, just as a quick reminder, we'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast, franchise your Business, or to our YouTube channel at Big Sky Franchise Team if you'd like to get this.

Tom DuFore:

And we have been running this series now for over five years and we love to bring in top quality experts and other leaders in industry to bring them in to talk about specific relevant topics, and today's session is no different.

Tom DuFore:

And if you subscribed or you saw our newsletter go out, we had a great topic on four ways prospects derail a sales call. As our leading into this session and today's session, we have Jared Lockwood with us and just a little bit of background on Jared. I love the opening sentence here of the bio he submitted. He said he spent the past 16 years helping individuals and companies achieve peak sales performance and I think for anyone who tunes in, you're probably looking for some piece of that. Now, one of my favorite things about Jared is not only being a sales expert, but he's also in franchising. He himself is a franchisee and I think that's important to note for our audience that he understands how to sell, how to add, sell new products and services, as well as the understanding and knowing where to come from when you're maybe looking to apply some of these things he's going to talk through today to the franchise sales arena. So, jared, with that all said, I'd love for it to just give you the floor to get us started today.

Jared Lockwood:

Yeah, thanks, tom. So I've got a PowerPoint that'll supplement a lot of this and you and I can interact together with some things. My goal today is to be a real-world, transparent, tangible, executable. All the above and I will start off with the title's a bit misleading of Four Ways Prospects Derail a Sales Call, because we will cover those and I think they're very relatable if you've ever done any business development and if you haven't, then you've been warned. So it is titled that, but I also made it come from a lens of maybe sales should take some responsibility for this, and, being somebody who's humbled with practicing this, it's very easy to externalize and blame others. The unfortunate reality is that becomes a victim mindset and that's not a place that really aspires growth, and so my hope is to counteract that with things you can control and manage that make life more productive, make life more simple maybe not easy, but simple and apply some strategies and concepts and philosophies today that may make a tangible difference for you as you go to market, whether you're selling an idea, selling internally, selling your business, all the above. So one of the things we'll cover is we're going to talk about how sales happens too, and I have five steps to share pretty common sense. It's not common. We'll talk about the challenges that we see in the market, generally speaking, and then we'll walk through those four roadblocks and reasons that buyers derail prospects, derail sales call. So I'm going to start off with challenges right out of the gate and this is a list we've compiled over the years. It's very general, but one of the lessons we've sort of learned over the years and this was general, but one of the lessons we've we've sort of learned over the years, and this was an aha for me.

Jared Lockwood:

When I started in this business I thought I was alone with all the problems I had and it was very uncomfortable. And then I came to something like this and went huh yeah, everybody has the same problems. Now the nuances are different, how they play out, the prioritization, those are all you know. Those are all unique. But one of the philosophies I want to try and ingrain is you're not alone. I'm, for instance. I am supposed to have a cure for all this. I have to deal with all these in my own business and yet I'm the person who's supposed to cure this for others. So that tells me how real world it is. So let's dig into those and I can go ahead and share my screen if that'll work. Yep, no, I'm just going to walk through these real quick, as some of the common ones.

Jared Lockwood:

First, one's incumbent relationships. So if we're going to do business with somebody, who are they doing business with now? And if we're going to have an opportunity, what's really the nature of that relationship look like and are they really ready to part ways? Because that can be a lot easier said than done, particularly if somebody has been working with a provider for 20, 30 years, 10 years, even where there is a good relationship but maybe it's sunsetted. That's a challenge for sales. Differentiation can be a challenge, and that means a lot of different things. Um, simplistic version in the absence of differentiation, it defaults to low price. So that's where value comes in. And how do we create value and differentiate from competitors? I would argue, differentiate from doing nothing, which may be one of the biggest competitors all of us have. It's just yeah, true. Which then leads to price pressure. Right? If there's no value, then price pressure occurs. Why would I spend more if it's the same? So that takes place in negotiations, presenting an offer, and there there's, whatever it plays out to be, that the price isn't exactly accepted.

Jared Lockwood:

Unpaid consulting fancy language, but it's one of the single reasons I'm in this business now. I was really good at it prior to Sandler and I'll explain and it'll make sense. It's when a salesperson does a really good job establishing a relationship and they feel a lot of positive energy about who they're engaging with, to a point where they find themselves being the expert in a room, sharing what can be done and how it can be done and providing a lot of knowledge and expertise and, for some of my technical clients, even providing engineering and real value-added things and doing such a good job that the prospective buyer actually realizes that they don't need the salesperson anymore. They've done such a good job with unpaid consulting that they've actually talked themselves out of a deal or provided a value without being fairly compensated. I was very good at that in a prior life and a lot, a lot of work, a lot of noise, a lot of hope, lack of results, which something's got to give after that. Lack of qualifying. Um, hope's not a strategy.

Jared Lockwood:

We get a lot of conversations around crms we're're going to close this, it's a, it's a deal and and too many folks hear that and feel that and then it goes sideways and usually it's a qualifying issue, not a closing issue. Being treated like a salesperson, you know it. When it happens, it's not fun, it's we'll talk about. You know why salespeople actually have created some of this, this stigma and this behavior. Not talking to a decision maker can be a problem. Not getting a decision, some form of hey, let's, let me think about it, I'll get back to you. That's the common one.

Jared Lockwood:

Identifying in the word in here is real need. What's the real need? We have a line that the problem they bring you is never the real problem, and that's a good sort of gut check. To be curious and skeptical in conversations um, be the, be the objective third party. That is this the root cause. Closing can be a problem.

Jared Lockwood:

When, how, where? Um is it the right time, wrong time? And then even the approach not in control of the process. So what does the process look like? And and if you don't? Another line there if you're, if you're not in your process, you're in somebody else's, which then leads into another common challenge. Is no process winging it? Hey, buddying and hey, buddy. I usually get some laughs at because again, I've done it. It's to show up and it's hey, hey, what's going on, buddy? Just hoping something happens? You know it is. I'm gonna wear them out until finally they say, oh, I'm going to buy from you. It's just hope, but it's a lot of wasted effort. It actually can diminish your value by doing it as well. Proposals that go nowhere, no follow-up or clear next step. Buyer doesn't understand the value. Then the very last one. That's kind of a surprise maybe, on how obvious it might be Trust. Trust is a problem. So, tom, I don't know, relatability does this seem fairly universal? What's your take? As you see, oh yeah.

Tom DuFore:

I mean, I think anyone who's ever been in any form of sales marketing onboarding new customers, new clients if they haven't run into some piece of this, even post-sale, for that initial onboarding sometimes that new customer or that new client is still unsure of the purchase and some of these things pop out it wasn't the real problem being solved, or still have the trust isn't there, like in this last one. So I think it makes a ton of sense.

Jared Lockwood:

Great Good. So let's talk about how sales happens, and I'm going to 30,000-foot overview this in five condensed steps and as we go out into the world, your sales cycle could be a one-call close. We find that's pretty rare for the nature of the audience we cater to. It's usually more sophisticated than that, but this could happen in one conversation. This could happen over the course of three to five years. For a sophisticated, we have clients who are in engineering and they do greenfield projects. So this is an idea that has to come to fruition and then be tangibly built, and so that's a longer sales cycle. And others who provide a combination of services, products, engineering, and that varies, but the sales cycles can be months to years and that's pretty common. So again, 30,000-foot overview.

Tom DuFore:

Hey, jared, real fast. So again, 30,000 foot overview. And hey, Jared, real fast. I realized in the intro I didn't mention I talked about you owning a franchise about and I didn't mention Sandler. But I just think it'd be helpful Maybe give a little just overview on Sandler too. I know that's a bit of a kind of throwing this off for a second, but I think that'd be helpful because I think that's noteworthy.

Jared Lockwood:

Well, who would I be if I didn't have a 30-second commercial on the fly to go teach others? Right, that's right. So, admittedly, my aha moment came about 15 years in. I'll give you the soft version and then the detailed version quickly. But our world is helping people and companies get in shape around sales. And getting in shape around sales, you know, and getting in shape doesn't happen overnight and what got you to where you're at may not get you to where you need to go, and not only getting in shape as a journey, but maintaining it. So for us, we have a business model that allows us to create, you know, sort of like that gym analogy in the human world, to create an environment with the tools, equipment, resources, personal coaching and training and guidance to be in the shape that you desire to be in, whether it's cardio, you know whether it's muscle mass, whether it's health related, and so you know the four areas. We tend to tend to spend time with clients and there's other areas, but the four key ones are really sales strategy when are we at, where we need to go, how are we going to get there A lot of clients have that somewhat figured out, but it's good to figure out gaps. And again, where are we at? Where do we need to be?

Jared Lockwood:

The next piece is sales structure. That's the processes and systems around supporting sales pre-call planning, post-call debriefing. What does our documented, repeatable sales process look like? Most companies don't have one. It's up here or they have habitual knowledge and tribal knowledge that's not documented, and documenting it would serve them well. It's goal setting. It's individual development and creating accountability so that each person in the organization really can behave like a business owner, with their own P&L, their own particularly in sales, their own sales quota and goal, with a behavioral plan to achieve it within the timeline desired. It's professional sales management training. A lot of our clients default into sales management and they do what they think's right, but it's never been professionalized. So there's a lot around that piece how to coach, mentor, train, supervise, hire, fire, motivate, compensate sales.

Jared Lockwood:

Next piece is staff. Do we have the right people in the right seats of the bus? You know how do we? How do we embrace discomfort, because discomfort's required for growth, you know? Do we have hunters or farmers? Do we have technical experts that come into the sales cycle because they're engineers or subject matter experts? So it's really putting the right people in the right places with the right tools to grow and do the uncomfortable things they need to do to get the results we're looking for. The very last one is just the skills, and the skills fall under behavior, attitude and technique and just having a consistent playbook and language for how do we have business conversations and prospecting, managing and selling opportunities, and then strategic account management, retain, gain, grow, expand accounts. So that's a quick version of the areas we bring value.

Tom DuFore:

Perfect. Thank you so much. Sorry to interrupt your going through these different selling systems and such here.

Jared Lockwood:

So finding interest, salespeople to find interest, whether it's through marketing, lead gen, proactive, inbound, outbound we got to find somebody who's interested in what we got and then that moves into the next phase of providing a needs analysis. You know, that's an understanding. Why are we talking? How can I help you? What were we looking for? You know, what do you think we can do for you? All of that discovery piece. And usually when I do this with groups, they actually will start guessing the next step. So if you're watching this in your mind, guess what the next step is.

Jared Lockwood:

When I say, after a salesperson has a good idea of what somebody needs, what do they then do? And I hear versions of it, but we call it present, and present is a presentation or a proposal or a scope of work, but it's where the salesperson has gathered info and is now conveying the solution or offer. And again, can be very sophisticated, can be pretty straightforward, depending, but there's a step in there. And then again people really guess this. Where I go, what do salespeople try and do after they present? Or what do they go for? This is the close. Were you going to guess it, tom? You were going to guess. Yeah, I said the sale.

Tom DuFore:

You know, after tom you're gonna go.

Jared Lockwood:

Yeah, I said the sale, you know, after you present you go for the sale yeah, and I and I and I get a little I don't know what the right word is snarky or passive, aggressive, maybe for humor or whatnot. And here's my line with that. Suppose the clothes doesn't happen on the spot. It's probably rare I say that sort of jokingly. There's a last piece, they follow up, and so you know, when I look at sort of condensing sales cycles, I generally ask folks have you seen anything like this before? And the consensus is yeah, generally speaking, 30,000 foot overview. Yeah, yeah. So, tom, a little guidance. Does that fit, generally speaking.

Tom DuFore:

Yeah, Absolutely. I would say most people you meet that are doing sales or have been in sales owners of companies, I would say this is a pretty typical outline or framework.

Jared Lockwood:

Okay, and that's important, that's relatable, yeah, important, that's relatable, yeah. So the buying systems were. I think we're all here today, and where it gets entertaining because we're going to talk about those four steps that prospects take to derail a call, and so a couple of ground rules on this is I'm going to use pretty direct words for dramatic effect also, because I think they're very easy to digest, and I want to keep it simple. The other is it depends on the audience of who you're calling on. Some of my clientele and some of us call on sophisticated buyers. They're purchasing agents, they're procurement types of folks where they've come up that kind of rank and there's professional training on that, and so they do this by design, and I have literally seen documentation and training manuals on how to do this by design. So purchasing, procurement, any of those titles Some folks are just really harsh or really engaged negotiators. They actually like the fight or the dynamic. What I find, though, is, most of the world is not that. Most of the world is just people trying to figure stuff out, but they do this and they have a system, and they just don't know it, and so if you called it out as a system, there'd be pushback. But if you look at it from this lens, you go well, that's really what they do, so maybe their habits are a system. And the last piece is we've all probably done this to somebody too, unintentionally. And that's where sales can take responsibility for avoiding this, because, at the end of the day, what I'm going to illustrate is neither of these are a good way to do business. So that's where we're heading.

Jared Lockwood:

Let's start with the first step in the prospect's buying system, and I'm going to start from a lens of where it's most difficult. It's when a salesperson meets a prospective client or customer for the very first time In some way, shape or form of human-to-human interaction Phone, email, networking, referral Probably doesn't happen as much on referrals, but it happens. Here's the first step For the very first time between a salesperson and a prospective buyer, meaning for the first time. The first step is they lie. Now let me soften it a bit. There's actually two lies that occur. Let's talk about the first one and let's go a little sideways for a second and, tom, you can do this with me.

Jared Lockwood:

This will be a good exercise for us. We're going to, we're going to drive this home with a concept of from the game show, a hundred thousand dollar pyramid, which isn't exactly a new show, and it used to be $20,000 pyramid back in the day. And by now, if they were the resurrected, post COVID and everything, it'd probably have to be a million-dollar pyramid for anybody to care. So I'm not sure they'll do that, which is why it hasn't restarted. So the way this works is there's a word that one contestant can see that the other can't, and that contestant has to describe that word as best as they can, so the other contestant guesses it. So in a moment, tom, if you're okay, we'll play that.

Tom DuFore:

Sure.

Jared Lockwood:

You know, the next screen will be two folks at a desk. You can pretend it's us and you're the one that's describing the word that I can't see in the middle of it, and so you'll have to think about it as fast as you can, and the faster you describe it, the easier it is for me to guess. And then we move on to the next one. So a little bit of time based. So this will be interesting. Knowing your background, I'm genuinely curious where you'll go with this. So I don't mean to put you on the spot, but this is what happens. So here we go. As soon as that next slide goes, let her rip, all right.

Tom DuFore:

Ah okay. Well, this is interesting. This would be someone you speak to when you're interested in buying something, and it's generally the first point of contact at the time of inquiry.

Jared Lockwood:

I am not surprised you went there, actually, which was, quite frankly, one of the most intelligent answers I have heard in 16 or 17 years. Well, thank you. Things like pressure, convincing you, uh, driving um, trying to to make you do something, and then finally it resolves. And I hate to use it, but it's what I hear use cars and and, and I don't mean that to me, it's just it's that's what happens when you get a room full of people. Yeah, yeah, and what's interesting? What's interesting one is I'm not surprised you went there, tom, with the nature of how you and I have talked about sales and you know there's, there's, there's a high road and there's a there's a low road. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jared Lockwood:

Most, most of the world struggles for terms of endearment with any association of this word. In fact, world struggles for terms of endearment with any association of this word. In fact. I know that because a lot of sales people call me up and they're like I'm trying to get a new title on my business card because I don't want the word salesperson on it. Yep, and I'm like.

Jared Lockwood:

So there's what we call a lot of head trash and the unfortunate reality is sales is one of those for lack of better words dirty professions as persona. As a general rule of thumb it's not true, but even I have that where I'm like what kind of salesperson is this going to be? And even I have that. So if we think about that level set, that unfortunate reality is sales is a dirty word then there's a harsh lesson to be learned here, which is in the absence of trust.

Jared Lockwood:

The moment you show up with the aura label, persona of sales, you have a negative stigma attached to you before you've even arrived and because of that it puts people in their basic human instinct fight or flight. Because if we don't like something, we're either going to fight our way from it or we're going to flight. That's the first reason the lie exists. The first lie is some form of go away. Because of that stigma and a representation of discomfort, people are afraid, and the easiest in this context is to flight, and so the first lie is some form of go away, because that's the path of least resistance.

Jared Lockwood:

How do I know? Teach a lot of clients to do targeted prospecting and I do it myself over the phone and various other avenues, and by targeted prospecting it's intelligent research on somebody that could potentially have the characteristics that you could help with. And imagine a salesperson picks up the phone and does a prospecting call and they get somebody on the other end of the line and there is intelligence behind that. What might be a lie that they'd hear? Not interested, we have no money. Um, I don't have conversations with people like you. Send me some information, call me back next week when I'm on vacation. The list goes on and on on.

Jared Lockwood:

Fair yep oh yeah, yep. So first lie is a defense mechanism and I think it's humbling for us to recognize that, that now we spend a lot of time studying how do you change that and, quite frankly, we've come to the realization we don't think you can. So what we've tried to do is say don't act like a salesperson, act like a business person. And that business edge, that concept of equal business stature, tends to have more empowerment and esteem and prestige with it, and it's a mindset for a lot of folks, it's a mindset shift.

Tom DuFore:

Well, what's interesting? What I would just add in there, jared, I think for sure this absolutely applies to more of a cold type of environment where you could be cold calling, it could be cold prospecting, it could even just be, but I think the same is true even in a warm prospect scenario. The same is true. Someone inquires through meta ads or pay-per-click ads, or if you're in a retail business and they just walk into your place of business, they're there for a reason. They're there because they're at least curious about something that you sell or offer through your place of business. And all too often you make that follow-up to someone who inquired to you. You didn't solicit them. You say you know, hello, how can I help you? And they say, oh no, no, I'm, you know, right, I'm looking, or I'm not interested, I'm not buying anything or whatever right, just to kind of shoo you away. So totally understand.

Jared Lockwood:

Yeah, and it's really mostly fear-based and a lack of trust established. Yeah, and it's really mostly fear-based and a lack of trust established. And that's huge to know, because if you have humility and you walk in the footsteps of others, then it helps you get your headspace right to craft the right message, craft the right approach. And the aha coming behind today is it really is do the right thing for the right reasons. Common sense is not common. Be straightforward and honest and ethical, and if you do all of that, you'll never be disappointed, kind of thing. So the first lie then, if we go back to it, is some form of go away, which means never had a shot. You're done before you got started. If that doesn't happen, it's some form of. This is great. Your timing's amazing. We are interested. How soon can we meet with you and figure this out? And those have been in sales. I'll be a little dramatic, but it's the one you need at the time. You need it where you've had a rough patch and finally, somebody is really excited about spending time with you and it's like in your time of need we're at a point where it's like they're more excited about meeting you than you're excited about even meeting them because you've just been grinding it out and so the next step occurs, which is stealing. They steal. Now, again, I use harsh words, I'm going to back off of those.

Jared Lockwood:

Some salespeople have actually created this environment. We see less of it today, but it's the salesperson that says well, let me just share with you what I got. Let me let me tell you the 64 reasons why you look like my next client. Let me just stop. And they just force this on people where they're trying to force reasons to buy from them and it doesn't work.

Jared Lockwood:

That's pretty rare these days, but it still happens and it perpetuates that bad sales stigma. But most of the time the stealing is trust hasn't been established yet still, and so a prospective buyer doesn't want to get real yet. They want to protect themselves, they want to keep their cards close to the vest because they don't want to get taken advantage of. So what they do to counteract that is they act very interested and nice, but what they do is they want to gather information, and their mindset really is they want to know everything the salesperson knows, without making any commitment on their part whatsoever. And that environment occurs where the salesperson then provides all this info, knowledge, expertise and it feels really good, and that kind of leads to that unpaid consulting challenge and, again, unintentional. It's unintentional, it's kind of default and the salespeople like it because they got an interested party, the prospects like it because they're getting valuable info but they don't have to make any commitments that make some sense.

Jared Lockwood:

Tom absolutely, absolutely okay and then they move to the next step and as we, as we look at these, we're moving down through the journey. So now we're moving into the presenting phase and closing, and then there's a third step that occurs, which is they lie. And I should put again so this sounds this is one of my snarky lines, because I'm having flashbacks to pre-Sandler or it sounds something vaguely, and by vaguely I mean almost exactly Vaguely along the lines of Jared appreciate you coming out here so soon and your timeliness and responsiveness. That's really good. You've shared a lot of information with us. You've helped us understand who you are, what you represent. Great job. You've asked questions. You've shared things we didn't even think about. We really appreciate the knowledge you bring to the table. This is great stuff. Money's not an issue here. We see the value with you. We like all of what we've covered. It's a lot for us to digest and we want to take this really serious and this is important to us. So because of that, we've got an internal meeting next week around all of this to debrief and talk action items and next steps. This looks great. Thank you so much. That meeting's Wednesday next week. We'll call you by the end of next week.

Jared Lockwood:

So thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it, jared. We'll talk soon, vaguely along the lines, right, and so here's the reality too. I just flashed back my prior life. What's Jared? Go back to the office and tell his manager Got one right, and he's telling everybody about it. What's Jared? Go back to the office and tell his manager Got one right, and he's telling everybody about it. He's excited. Sales manager's happy, or business owner? You know Jared's perky for the next week because he's got this deal coming on the following Wednesday. And then guess what happens on Wednesday? They don't get the call.

Tom DuFore:

Yeah, yeah, that, that that prospective customer does not return the call or whenever deadline they said, and they don't answer your call or email when you check in. Hey, how's it going? That's right.

Jared Lockwood:

Yep. And then Thursday and Friday same thing. Yeah, the salesperson doesn't want to be desperate or pushy goes into the weekend thinking about it and then Monday morning, during the pipeline review, what's one of the first things the salesperson's asked? Oh the drill. Yep, what happened out there? That's not a fun start to the work week, by the way. So salesperson's going to take action and the next step has occurred. It's free, unlimited access to email, voicemail, text message gatekeepers.

Jared Lockwood:

They hide, as we call it, ghosting now. So look at how these things align. The salesperson wants to find interest. There's a lying component. Because of a lack of trust, salespersons do a need analysis of presenting. They're gathering, but not making commitments, holding the cards close, they go to close, they lie about their motives and intentions and then the meeting sort of ends. The process kind of gets a little ambiguous. So the salesperson follows up and they hide and they're unresponsive.

Jared Lockwood:

This is the way we see sales happening by default in the world around us, by default, and so it raises a couple questions as we look at this. One is how long has this been going on? Which is? The answer is forever, long before all of us, probably created by bad salespeople, actually, you know taking advantage of trust.

Jared Lockwood:

I think the other part is it's probably perpetuated today because people don't know what they don't know and they're in this and they're they're seeing it now and they're going aha, I didn't know I was in this, that's so. So there's now this aha moment of if I'm in this and I don't like it, maybe I can do something about it and get out of the default mode. That's not in anybody's best interest, because that's the real deal. I don't think people want to buy this way and I don't think salespeople want to be treated this way either. So it's not a good way for business. And the real question that I ask folks with this and in a group setting is have you seen this before? Question, then, that I ask folks with this and in a group setting is have you seen this before?

Tom DuFore:

And so that's the question right for all of us to debate. Tom, have you seen it? Of course, yeah, and I think anyone who's, I think you know, can be honest with themselves will say well, if I've been, if they've had any involvement in sales, and even marketers, marketers that they might not be quote the sales person. They're involved in the sales process. So they see this and they're going through a similar step process and then, as the prospective customer, we've all been that person and I, I mean I know I, I don't stand out as any different. I know I've done those same things and, uh, not with bad intentions, I didn't go in with the intent of of doing those things, but it, it and it did have, it has happened right and it and it does happen. So habitual.

Jared Lockwood:

It just, it's just a habit. We don't know another one. It's just what it is. And now, when you look at the mirror and you look at this lens, then you go and you start to feel a little dirty. Yeah, but that's the reality of it and that's that's part of growth too, is you look at the harsh reality and you look at the and you go, okay, do I like where I'm at or do I? Do I adjust? And that's that's the moment a lot of folks have alongside of this is it is uncomfortable? Yep, so it's like looking in the mirror.

Tom DuFore:

Yep.

Jared Lockwood:

So how much time do we have? Tom? I want to triage my next segment.

Tom DuFore:

Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, I'd say, let's maybe 10 minutes or so here, yep.

Jared Lockwood:

All right. So I'm going to go real quick, quick now. There are opportunities to do a deeper dive in this, and we invite guests all the time because it's our way of giving back and, um, at least helping people row in the right direction, whether they need our help or not. So there is a deeper dive of what I'm about to cover and I'm not doing it the justice I could, which is why there's a deeper dive. But what I want to share is the sand Sandler submarine, and one thing I'd encourage any of you is have a systematic way to approach conversations. Think of like an engineering process, or think of like a manufacturing process. You don't get quality by just winging it. You have specialization of resources with good inputs and good outputs that move to the next piece of the system, and if you do all of that, you end up with a quality result. This is no different, it's just it's just overlaid with sales, which becomes one of those professions that doesn't necessarily have a tangible scorecard. Many instances, the scorecard is you can go talk to people, go sell, right. So so this is both a system paired with human psychology, and I think you need both. So the first step, simply put, is bonding a rapport is building trust, authentic trust, not manipulative, but genuine, real trust. And there's some counterintuitive things in this. One of the exercises that's most potent and this is a takeaway for anybody listening to this is take a few minutes and go through an exercise of what do people need to see, hear and feel from me, to buy from me. And it's a really intelligent exercise because you might find there's some, if you really study it, some counterintuitive things. I used to think I needed it to be ultra polished, ultra corporate, corporatey. You know really together, say things perfectly, have the answer to all the questions, be Johnny on the spot. And what I realized was that was a facade. It was humble, transparent, sharing vulnerabilities, getting real with people, listening, with the intent to understand and not respond. You know all of these things. And when I looked at those ingredients then I went well, how do I rep, how do I demonstrate that, or create an environment with people where these things exist? And I think that's so shortcut these days where people skip rapport and they don't value it. And, and, and and. Simply put in our philosophy, if you don't have trust, you're done, because nothing else is going to be truthful or effective or potent, yeah.

Jared Lockwood:

Next is what we call upfront contracts. Upfront contracts in these first two pieces they're just human relation and communication mechanism. But upfront contracts, it's a fancy language for mutual agendas, expectations and outcomes. There's only four outcomes to any sales call and that's actually an aha moment for people because they get afraid of the unknown. There's only four outcomes they do something or not with you or somebody else of the unknown. It's only four outcomes they do something or not with you or somebody else.

Jared Lockwood:

So if you recognize that and you as a business person recognize that you're not right for everybody and that's okay, and you can't force somebody to do something they're unwilling and able to do because they won't stay, you know that's not a sustainable relationship, that's transactional sales, not relational and ongoing. Then you can create language that says well, let's talk about outcomes for this and let's call it for what it is. No is an acceptable outcome on both sides. If I'm not a fit for you, we shouldn't go further and I'll let you know sooner rather than later If you don't want to continue this journey with me. For whatever your reason is, let me know and we're done and it's okay.

Jared Lockwood:

That's encouraged and I've really coached sales people to ask somebody why do you think that's a good thing? And people are like because you get time back and they're like yeah, so my, my sort of language around that is look, yes, I get paid for yeses, that's my favorite outcome. But call it what it is, but it's got to be right for you and me. So yes, has to be mutual, mutually agreed upon. You know what my second best outcome is?

Jared Lockwood:

No, and here's why I know where we stand. I can reallocate resources elsewhere, you know, and and when you, when you can create this equal business stature mindset and you can talk in those terms and then say let's talk about our purpose for today, what we want to accomplish, what the potential outcomes are. You diminish uncertainty, you enhance rapport, you give people control and you get to the truth a lot quicker because people aren't afraid of you anymore. They're like oh well, this isn't a hidden agenda, we're going to figure this out together and there are reasonable outcomes that everybody's okay with. Those two things there elevate almost any sales conversation, and what I mean by that, too, is it turns into a business conversation Making some sense, oh yeah.

Jared Lockwood:

And then pain. Budget and decision are the qualifiers I'm going to shortcut this, but they're the qualifying pieces. Pain is the compelling reason to do something different, the compelling reason to buy, and so pain's used everywhere these days, but it's it's understanding the true personal motivation and understanding the business case. And doing both, there's no real reason to do anything different. There's no value, there's no business case. Why go further? Budget is parameters around what the business relationship would look like and in general, it's time, energy, money, resources, communication, engagement and it's having that conversation from a very strategic standpoint, like budgeting, bracketing, ballparking. But let's get that on the table early, because what I find is when we don't do that, you either present somebody who has no money, you present something that is out of scope and they can't afford it. Now they're just upset. Or you've spent a lot of time and energy and resources putting a great thing together that nobody can move forward with and it was just an unfortunate waste of everybody's time. And then the decision piece is not getting one. It's understanding how they make one. You know. It's helped me understand what. How are you going to go about making a decision for this? What's the criteria? What, ultimately, are you going to need to see or hear to be able to decide one way or another. Who's involved? What's the timeline? The timeline, you know, is doing nothing in options, so it's qualifying and if you understand the decision process you can understand. If it's fair, you can help support it.

Jared Lockwood:

And in many instances, most people, when they're asked these questions and they're intelligent number one, they appreciate it and two, because they're discovering and learning along the way. Number two, they actually don't even know their own decision process until you talk about it and it and it kind of calls it early, not later. And then then you get to the back end, which is fulfillment and post-sale. With fulfillment simply put the closing where the presentation occurs and you know the closing elements occur post-sales onboarding. Why this is uncomfortable? Because it's like slow is fast, fast is slow. It's actually slowing the sales cycle down, which is actually counterintuitive for salespeople to hear too. Just that in itself. And the idea is, if we slow it down, we can give these things the credit they deserve mutually and it will yield the right outcomes and we either keep going because we both agree and it makes sense, or we stop and we all get our time back. We preserve the relationship and we move on.

Jared Lockwood:

And so there's a lot more to this, but these are some highlighted elements, condensed to say there is a framework to go back to any one of those problems and others and go where does it root cause? So, for instance, I was coaching a client today and then Tom, I'll wrap it up we're going to do a session where we're going to brainstorm all the problems, let the team come up with it. Then we're going to share the list and go, oh yeah, they're the same right. And then we're going to pick one and go where in this process do you think is the root cause of that issue? And so one of them said, well, price pressure is a big one. And I'm like got it, price pressure. And I'm like, well, what step would that occur in?

Jared Lockwood:

And my client, as we were prepping for the future meeting, he goes in the pain step and I'm like I didn't even think that one I was, but I was like tell me more about painting. He goes well, if you don't understand what the needs are, how do you price something out appropriately with value to justify the price you're sharing? I was like you're correct, if there's no need, who cares how much it is, and if there isn't value, then you're going to have a price problem. I was like that's great. And I was like I was thinking it was the budget step, because that's where you cover the money.

Jared Lockwood:

And then I said and then somebody said well, what if they're not telling you, though, and they're not being honest with you about what they can afford or what makes sense money wise? And we were like, well, that's a bonding and rapport issue. And then they were. They all sat back and I'm like we're all working around the end of the problem. We think it's pain in budget. We actually don't even have the trust we should have with these accounts, so no wonder we're having frustrating conversations that aren't yielding real outcomes. And it was an aha moment. I was like we're working wrong in a problem. You don't even have trust, so of course you're not going to get real pain and of course you're not going to get the truth around. What makes sense and that's the beauty about a system is you can self-diagnose, you can learn and continuously improve and, over time, becomes the right habit.

Tom DuFore:

Well, Jared, this is great. I love this Sandler submarine and, uh, for those of you, for those that are tuning in or will listen to this audio only, uh, it's a, it's a cool picture of a submarine with the framework and model that he just described. So, Jared, I'd love to open this up for questions for anyone that's here with us. And while we're opening that up, what's the best way for someone to learn more about what you're doing, how to get in contact directly with you? Can they schedule some time? How does all of that work?

Jared Lockwood:

Yeah, I mean the first step of my process is 30 minutes to just talk high level, ask each other questions, use this as the process, which is do we like each other and can we establish some rapport? You know, figure out if there is a pain in our area of expertise that that's worth a conversation further, and then generally that leads to scheduling a deeper dive as a second meeting, and so the first meeting is usually no more than 30 minutes exploratory. It may go nowhere, but it's mutually decided if it's time well spent to go deeper Again. Using the submarine, we practice what we preach so people get to participate in it, and that alone helps qualify opportunities, because if people don't like the way we approach it, they probably shouldn't work with us. We're not a good resource. It doesn't happen much, but it happens. We're not for everybody, um, but they can Google me. Um, you know jlockwoodatsandlercom. You can. You can Google Jared Lockwood Sandler. You'll find me, and you got a website and all the normal stuff. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm everywhere. So perfect.

Tom DuFore:

Well, I know we've been in conversation for many months now and we have a common client in is how we ended up connecting and have just had great feedback on you and the work that you've done and working with this through this common client and just our has been great. So that's part of the reason I wanted you on to share. There are lots of sales, training professionals and experts out there, but I really like your style and your approach. I think it's really congruent for any form of sales and especially in franchising and franchise sales. A lot of folks that are going to be tuning in for our audience are thinking about how can I sell franchises the first one or build or help my franchisees sell more products or services, and so just I think that this approach again, I think it works for any sales situation. But that relationship and bonding piece I mean that's the whole to me, the foundation to every franchisee joining a system, and you're in a franchise system, you know you are a franchisee, so you understand that firsthand.

Jared Lockwood:

Yep, I do, yeah. Yeah, I'm honored too. Thank you, it's mutual.

Tom DuFore:

Yeah, well, thank you. Well, I'll close us out here. Jared, thank you so much for being a guest here today. We will repost this. So anyone tuning in live says, boy, this was great content. You have some coworkers or other people on your staff or team that you think it'd be valuable for them to listen in to this. Again, you can subscribe to the podcast at Franchise your Business. Again, you can subscribe to the podcast at Franchise your Business, any available at your favorite podcast service, or look us up on YouTube and you'll find the recording there. Thank you everyone for tuning in, have a great weekend and we'll look forward to seeing you back on our next session.

Jared Lockwood:

Thank you, Tom, Thanks everybody.

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Tom DuFore

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