What I've Learnt - Shelly Horton

You’re going to love Shelly Horton as she explores all things Peri and Menopause! 

She’s transformed her own perimenopause experience into a mission to ensure other women aren’t sideswiped like she was. 💕

Through her book, I’m Your Peri Godmother: A happily-ever-after guide to kicking perimenopause in the ovaries, and her signature sassy delivery, Shelly blends lived experience with expert-backed advice to smash the stigma around perimenopause and menopause. 
With over 30 years in media, including a decade on TODAY EXTRA, she’s a trailblazer for menopause-friendly workplaces that boost productivity and support women with evidence, not eyerolls. 

Find out more about her Pri Godmother at Work training https://shellshockedmedia.com/peri-godmother-at-your-workplace/

Tickets to the Hot, Healthy and Unbreakable: Midlife Reimagined https://www.tegdainty.com/tour/hot-healthy-unbreakable/

Deborah's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/what.ive.learnt/

Mind, Film and Publishing: https://www.mindfilmandpublishing.com/

Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/what-ive-learnt/id153556330

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3TQjCspxcrSi4yw2YugxBk

Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1365850

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Well, it's very exciting. Shelly tells us that she's going to cover everything from menopause and hormones to sex, strength, longevity, and thriving in midlife. Yay! Which we really, really all like to do and feel like we are doing. So we welcome Shelly Horton to the What I've Learnt Podcast. Thrilled to have you join us.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Yes, me too. We're very excited to have you. So you and I, obviously, we have a lot of common ground. Not only are we midlife specialists, but I think the other thing is you, as a journalist, as somebody who is a voice for the people, is how I see our role. We facilitate, we engage, we connect. Tell us a little bit about what brought you into your space as a journalist.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

So I always wanted to be a journalist, and I think I had an interesting start. I actually started in Melbourne as a crime reporter. So I was out on murder hunts and things like that, which I absolutely loved. I think I was into true crime before true crime was a thing. And then I kind of moved to London and I ended up falling into entertainment. So my my career has really been quite fluid, but I think that's one of the joys of journalism. You can go from being a crime reporter for ABC Radio to being an entertainment reporter on TV in London to I was a gossip columnist for the Sun Herrels.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Oh, now we're like, Oh, wow. That's a real and that is a very diversification, is the capacity.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

So I I've done all of that. I'm still on TV every week on Today Extra on Channel 9, where I discuss the news of the day, which sort of just keeps me on my toes because you've got to be able to debate another journalist, you know, about the topics. But I run my own company and I now have really, you know, fallen into this perimenopause-menopause space. And I don't think you can ever plan something like that. So it's it's a happy coincidence, I will say. Now it is anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Well, I think the beauty, and and to your point, I mean, the beauty of being a journalist, and I find this in this space as a podcaster as well, is that you get to actually visit these extraordinary places, don't you? And people. And in a sense, when you experience something yourself, or you're surrounded by a particular group of women in this situation who are experiencing similar symptoms, it allows you to go on a deep dive. That's one thing that we learn how to deep dive and how to actually research and understand. And that's what's brought you, I, as I understand it, into this space.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, absolutely. And also, you sort of put yourself in a position of like, what happened to me when I went into perimenopause is I'd never even heard the word before. Like we know about it now. It is on everyone's social media. But just six years ago, I had never heard the word. So I had no idea what symptoms to look out for. And it wasn't all the traditional symptoms. So for me, I figured if I didn't know, there'd be other women who didn't know. And so that's when I decided perimenopause knocked me to the ground. And if I was going to get back up, I was going to get back up fighting and fighting for other women to be informed.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Well, I have to say that is something that we all need desperately to learn about. And it is strange to me that it's taken this long for us to be a problem.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I think there was such a I think there was such a stigma and a bit of shame around it. And I think that I love being a Gen X woman because we just do not give a crap anymore. Like we we are not going to keep quiet in case we scare the horses. You know, my mother's generation, my mother did not discuss perimenopause or menopause with me at all. Like was it crazy?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Like I just like, I'm like, sure, you want HRT because I have no idea. And she goes, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

And my mom, you know, on HRT for medical menopause. And then because of that WHI study that came out claiming that HRT causes breast cancer, which we now know has been walked back, she got ripped off HRT. A lot of them has had 35 years of hot flushes. So I've always seen mom having hot flushes, but you know, you just think, oh, that's what happens when you're over 60. I didn't know because she had medical menopause, she went into medical menopause because she had a hysterectomy and her ovaries removed when she was just 32. Like that's so young. So shocking to the body, you know. So for me, when I was 45 and I started having heart palpitations, I've never I'm very lucky. I'm like touching wood everywhere here, but I'm very lucky that I've I haven't had poor mental health before in my life. And my perimenopausal depression hit me so severely that I nearly quit my job. I nearly quit my life. I don't even recognize me six years ago. So I didn't know any of those symptoms could be part of perimenopause and menopause. You know, hot flushes, you recognize. But what I didn't know is the fact that I wasn't having hot flushes, but I just felt a bit hotter all the time. That's a sign of a hot flush. Like they don't have to be that movie, you know, sweaty. Yeah, no, it can just be something into a freezer. Oh, it was just three degrees hotter all the time. So I think this is where education is so vital. And what I love is now that we've kind of ripped the scab off and we are going, we're going to be raw and tell you everything that happens. Women are great communicators and we are sharing our stories, and that's how women can then advocate for themselves and make their own decisions about their health. You can't make a decision about your health if you don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Exactly. And I think you're absolutely right. First of all, it's wonderful to see this extraordinary community globally talking about what was the unspoken, which is in itself is really interesting to me because for some reason, as you say, women are great communicators, but why was there so much shame around these experiences? And also what it meant is I think also men are starting to understand as you as you mentioned, you know, and you're going into the workplace because the men are now saying, Well, wait, what is wrong with this particular staff member? What does that mean? How do I manage that? I mean, they're ill-equipped as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, I'll tell you a funny story because I now go into workplaces and and, you know, do lunch and learns or I do webinars to educate people about menopause in the workplace. But it was still very much, you know, the past four years, it's mainly been female dominated. And I understand that, but I always make sure that the sessions are open to men if they want to come along. And I was actually doing my third session with Westpac, and I got a call from the people in culture person who was organizing it saying, we've had some of our senior male leaders ask if they can have a men's only menopause session. And I was like, Oh, for Christ's sake, can't we even have something for it? You know, like I just did not react well. That's very It was one of the best sessions I've ever had because these men were actually so empathetic. They were just like, we don't want to have a session with women in it because we don't want to be seen to be taking time away from women asking questions. Secondly, we're probably gonna ask some really dumb questions because we're not really even sure how a period works. And we want to make sure we keep our staff and we don't put our foot in it. You know, like they are really nervous about saying the wrong thing. And it's so, in fact, it ended up being an incredible session where I actually regained faith in men everywhere because this is not a women's health issue. This is a society issue. And it happens to 100% of women who are lucky to live long enough. So therefore, it's going to affect their partners, their family members, their colleagues. So it's something that everyone needs to be across. And now I really embrace men learning more about it. And to be honest, I would not have survived my perimenopause if my husband hadn't been an empathetic and kind man. I think he is an earth angel, but he was the one who really got me to go and get some help.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Well, that is really that's sort of uplifting. And I think a lot of women are feeling, and it's great to hear that. I think a lot of women are feeling much more empowered to actually have that conversation with their partner or their husband. And therefore, as you say, I mean, that story is so indicative of what I think is happening in the workplace. It's no longer something they can ignore. It just is it's ever present. It actually has been for a long time. And I look at most of my close female friends are all full-time working, and most of them, if they've gone through it, have kept it pretty under the hood. Our generation was not one to really speak about it. We just went and found whatever it was that we had to find to help us deal, basically. Yeah. But I think it's changing. I think it's like now everyone's talking about it. It's like, oh, are you on HRT? Oh, great, which one are you on? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

And also share your information. It's like, you know, getting a dealer. Like, let me know what's going on. Have you got a divine ones? Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Just say, everyone's like, who is your endocrinologist? You know, people just like they're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

The interesting thing for me is I would describe menopause in the workplace as what mental health in the workplace was 10 years ago. Remember when no one discussed mental health, no one talked about anxiety, no one talked about depression. Now we have Are You Okay Day? We have entire training sessions for workplaces. We even have mental health first aid offices. So I think we are going to, we're kind of on the cusp of a wave in that it's still slowly, slowly in Australia, but we're getting there where workplaces are actually realizing that it's affecting their bottom dollar. And when they realize it affects their bottom dollar, then they're interested, you know? So when I wrote the book, I had to actually do research internationally because there's not a lot of research in Australia about menopause in the workplace. And there's this a great study over in the UK, and it showed that one in 10 women actually left their job because of their perimenopause and menopause symptoms. Then there was 14% went part-time, and 8%, if they were asked or offered a promotion actively, said they did not want the promotion because they didn't feel confident. Now, if you think about it, these women are not retiring because they're in their mid-40s to 50s. They are at the peak of their career. So what we saw was happening is these women were losing their confidence, not being able to get their symptoms under control, and blaming themselves and saying, I'm just stressed, I'm incompetent, I can't, you know, brain fog means I can't find a word, but they didn't know it was because of brain fog. They just felt like they that they were no longer the confident, capable person they were. So they would minimize themselves and maybe go part-time and work at a dentist or something like that. Now, if that's your dream, all power to you, but it often isn't the dream. It's just what they thought they could cope with. Whereas if they had the information and managed their symptoms and it's their choice whether going HRT or, you know, other treatments, but whatever it is to help manage the symptoms, they could have been back to their best. So once you start seeing studies like that, you realize this is impacting women. And this is another thing that feeding into the pay gap. You know, we these women are then losing super. They're not earning as much. Like it's really, it is really important. It's multifaceted.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I think a few things out of that. I mean, first of all, the change in the perspective on HRT has been massive. But that in itself, to me, is quite fascinating. That we had this perception for a decade, don't go on HRT really, unless you really, really, really have to, because it heightens your risk of A, B, C, D, E. That whole trajectory has changed. And that I think is in itself quite, yay! I know everyone's doing that. But what I find fascinating is how could they get that so wrong? Because that's really Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

So that's the WHI study from 2002. It was a massive study done over in America, and it was like it cost a billion dollars. Like it was a big study. What we know is the HRT that they were giving these women was synthetic and came from pregnant horse urine. Like they don't use that sort of HRT anymore. They also didn't cap the age group. So the the average age of women on this HRT were, you know, between 67 and 73. Like, this is not the age group that need to be on HRT. We need them in their, you know, 40s. Yeah. So what they did is even though, and the the increase in breast cancer was correct, but it was minuscule. It was barely a statistical relevance. And it's just that fear factor of HRT causes breast cancer. And women are just so afraid of breast cancer. And I completely understand that. But once you get down to the science, if you looked at that exact same study and analyzed the women who were age 45 to 54, not only was there no increase in breast cancer, there was less breast cancer. Very angry. So it's really how I'm interpreting it. And I get so angry, and I'm just like, I want to sue these scientists. Like, I am so they have destroyed tears of my mother's life, you know, and that's times that by millions and millions and millions of women around the world. But I've spoken to doctors like Dr. Mary Claire Haver, and she's like, you can't get mad at a study. You just have to understand. But we know better now. We've got to be able to do that. But it's really hard because it's just impacted a lot of us. See the impact.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah. Yeah. I think the other thing that's really important to note as well is that you know that concept, I don't know if you're aware of this, but so all the cars, the crash test dummies that were used right for cars, were not women, right? So therefore, no boobs. Right. So that means when you actually, if you God forbid, if you have an accident, then those safety bags will release, but they're not necessarily. I mean, it's getting better now because I think they're they're making it more, they're accommodating women and more. But it's a bit like that in this whole genre.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

1993 was when they actually made it law in America that you must use females in clinical trials. Because women, they didn't want scientists, didn't want women in their clinical trials because their hormones changed every month. Now, isn't that the point? I don't want to have go on a cardiac medication that is not taking into account that my hormones are fluctuating every month. So 1993 is not that long ago that women weren't involved in clinical trials at all. So women are not small men is something that Dr. Kelly Kasperson says all the time, and I love it. We are complex. We have very, very complex hormonal systems, and it affects every cell of our body. So therefore, we deserve to be in every study so that we don't have things like that where, you know, the crash test, dummies, even, oh my God, did you watch the pit? And this is, you know, you know when you start getting down a rabbit hole. But on the pit, they had an example where the ambulance officers didn't put the heart monitoring patches or whatever, you know, for when they're monitoring their heart in the correct place because the woman had really big boobs. And part of the storyline was we don't care. Take the bra off. We don't care if our boobs are out, if you're saving our life. And also, why don't medical professionals get sat trained with dummies that have boobs? Because it's going to happen 50% of the population. Correct. So it's just sort of that sort of thing. When you just start watching it, you just become so aware of the absolute medical misogyny that is out there that we are now going, hang on, not good enough.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

The other thing that the flow onto that is that I I was interviewing somebody recently as part of the Ovarian Cancer Research Foundation. There's a panel, and the surgeon, she's a female surgeon and she's amazing, Dr. Shammy. And she was talking about the training that of doctors and of surgeons. So it goes into the whole system and how hard it is as a female, as you can imagine, to train and to be on that trajectory. But also the actual she was saying that things that they study about women's health is some of it is actually quite limited and it needs to change because all of that feeds into the whole problem of diagnosis, treatment, etc. Yeah. In fact, my um my sense is we need to, in fact, my daughter has got a very big app and platform that has been installed. Your daughter's a doctor, isn't she? She is, she's a wonderful, but she's actually um a medtech, so she's in London at the moment because Over May I is geared towards it's something you have on your phone that you can basically use to record all of your symptoms, data, every single thing to do with your health space. And then you have agency and advocacy, and it's been a huge hit because one of the things is we need to be part of the story. And this is the theme of over may I. It's the thing that you're talking about. We need to advocate for ourselves because nobody else is.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

We also need to educate our doctors because in Australia, until recently, most doctors had less than one hour's training in perimenopause and menopause.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Exactly what Dr. Shabbat said.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Shocking. It is shocking. Yeah. So you're kind of relying on the fact that your doctor has made the decision to upskill in that area. And if if they are just a GP, I'm I'm not even really blaming them because they have to be up across so many things. So one thing that when I actually went to parliament to campaign about this, because you know, if you're gonna get ruffle my feathers, I'm gonna, you know, get on my soul.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Ruffle yours. Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

That's right. So in 2023, I was part of the first ever parliamentary roundtable on menopause and I shared my lived experience. And what we were calling for then was education. We wanted doctor's education, so not and not just GPs. It has to be any health professional who is putting their hands on a woman. Like it has to be across the board. Then also education in workplaces. And then we were asking for better HIT on the on the PBS and research and things like that. So just a couple of weeks ago, I was back in parliament because we launched a national menopause ad campaign. Now that was something that I was, yeah, I was a consultant. I guess you could consultant. Let's just make it very clear. I got paid zero. So it's a pro bono consultant. Yeah. But my biggest fear was that one, it was going to be a boring government ad, and two, it was going to be aimed at our grandmothers, not at us. So I was very firm with the honorable Mark Butler, who's our health minister. And I was just like, if you have grey-haired old ladies who are frail, fanning themselves, I will fly to Canberra to punch you in the throat. He did remind me that that is an offense, and that's why they shouldn't threaten a minister. But uh I've got a great I did a great video with him where I said, I did, I said, I rode your ass to make sure that this campaign was good. And he said, some would call you scary. I said, sometimes you're scary, but they just say. I'm like, thank you very much. And the campaign is brilliant. It is to me, it's funny, it's relatable. And, you know, the first scene, a woman walks into a pantry and she goes, you know, parent menopause can be called your Wonder Woman era. And then it says, I wonder why I walked in here. And I'm like, oh, that is so good. I'm so brilliant with that.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

But but I love this because it's also with a tinge of humor. And one does have to also, we need a little bit, which is what what you're actually reflecting also, I gather that when you're doing this tour, that there's a sense of also not taking ourselves too seriously because I think we need a bit of both. No, and so yeah. So I've got to have a bit of that, you know. Otherwise, we're all and so I sort of like from what you're telling me, that sounds like a good campaign. But tell us a little bit about also your your tour. Well, we know you've got the book Perry Godmother. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

What have it so much fun? Like what a hilarious title. I love it. I know, I love it. So, yes, tell us about the tour. It's basically all about, you know, my experience. But the tour that is coming up in August, I'm so excited about. It's called Hot, Healthy, and Unbreakable Midlife Reimagined. And we've invited Dr. Von De Wright, who's an orthopedic surgeon from America, and Dr. Kelly Kasperson, who's a urologist. And the three of us will be on stage. Now, let me tell you, it's gonna be like a girl's night out where you're laughing and learning at the same time. Like your WhatsApp group is gonna blow up afterwards with just like all of the truth bombs that are going to be dropped. But it's going to be funny and inspiring. It's not going to be like a boring dry lecture. We've got dry vaginas. We don't need a dry lecture. So let's make it fun right now. Yeah. Honestly, Dr. Fonda is she's just so inspiring, and she's all about bone health and recent. Oh, she said something recently which just blew my mind, where she said women need to stop losing weight and start lifting them. And I'm like, oh, that's so much. We like that. And Dr. Kelly Kasperson is a urologist. And so she'll be talking about everything in that area that no one talks about. So we're going to be talking about driver Jonas. We're going to be talking about urine retract infections. I got, I've had two urine retract infections in my life. One when I was 18. Wonder what caused that. And then one last year at 52. And I was like, that is not from lots of sex. I've been married for 10 years. It's actually a sign of dry of having a dry vagina in that area. So just things like that. And if you are using vaginal estrogen, which we know is 100% safe because it doesn't get absorbed into the blood system, there are so many other advantages. So it helps with urinatract infections. It also helps with you not having to get up in the middle of the night and pee. Like, isn't that in itself a reason to get like that absolutely broken or something?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Interesting. Yeah, but that's really interesting because I think there's a lot of this stuff that's circling, but I think it will be, I mean, it sounds like the doctors you have on board will be really informative and along with a dose of humor and as we discussed, but I think people don't know this. A lot of them are not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

No, and I think it's again, but even I know, I just I keep, I mean, my my point of reference obviously is my own journey. But six years ago, when I finally, you know, after wanting to quit my job and you know, having some very, very dark thoughts, my husband got me to a GP who had been trained in menopause. And she's like, I'm gonna pop you on an antidepressant. Now we know that's not the answer at all, particularly for very menopausal depression, but it's the most common thing that will happen with a GP. Then she said, I want you to go into an HRT. And so I agreed to that. And then she said, and I'd love for you to go on vaginal estrogen. And I said no, because I was I was so overwhelmed at the time. I'm like, oh my God, I just can't have another thing on my to-do list. Like, I just am not coping. Yeah. Then fast forward six years, I'm like, oh, why didn't I start that earlier? You know, like I wish someone had explained to me the benefits of it and the different options. Like she'd prescribed a cream and I just didn't like the feel of it and all the, you know, gross. Whereas you can have a pessary, which is completely clean. It's a little tiny tablet, you insert it, done. And it's just, yeah, I think again, it took me a little while to get comfortable to be speaking about it. So I can't expect everyone to be up to speed with me. But at the same time, I think like a tour like this, where it's more like a menopause mosh pit, where we have, you know, incredible questions and and incredible experts. Even if you go away from something like that going, I'm gonna speak to my GP about having some uh vaginal estrogen, then that in itself is gonna help make your life better. So it's those little things that end up being.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

I agree with you. Yeah, and I think also you're right, there seems to be a sort of auto, it's almost like an automated response from many of the doctors who have been trained as best they can to respond. But as we as women drive an education and an understanding beyond what is the go-to auto response, as you've just outlined, that's going to also help the medical profession too. Absolutely to set to go, well, you know what, maybe that's not the right way. I mean, I'm seeing I've got a lot of female specialists I've talked to you about who I see who have been transformative for me. And then I've sent all my girlfriends to them. Like they've got, like, everyone's that's the other thing, is we're a beautiful community that we need to share those gifts and those beautiful. You don't have to have a female doctor, by the way, because a lot of great male doctors, but some of these female doctors are very uh specializing in this arena and have a great understanding of what you go through because they are women. But that's not to say so.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

I had an interesting case in that I only ever wanted to have female gynecologists, and I figured if a man hasn't had a period, then how the hell can you tell me about my heavy periods and things like that? And you know what? I live on the Gold Coast now, and there's very much choice up here. And I had two female gynecologists who I went to who were traumatizing. Traumatizing. Like one of them I went to because I heavy bleeding is very, very common in perimenopause, but because I also have PCOS, which they've renamed P.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yes, P C O S PMO. PMOS. Yes, something renamed. I've just done it.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

They've renamed it, I've got to learn it. Yeah. Um, they've all they also call it M H T and I just killed keep calling it HRT. I'm like, my I've got my peri brain, I'm still trying to catch everything. But anyway, I went, I in my last year of bleeding, had I bled for 42 weeks out of 52. Oh my god. Yeah. So can you imagine my iron was so low, I was exhausted. And I went to a female gynecologist and to talk about a hysterectomy. And she said to me, Yep, definitely get rid of it. And while I'm at it, I'll take your ovaries because they're problematic. And I said, But hang on, all the research says to conserve the ovaries if you can, because it otherwise I'll go into medical menopause. And she said to me, to my face, Oh, I don't know much about menopause, but I'm a good cutter.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Oh, that is so distressing.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

And was that for you? Or was it you out the door?

SPEAKER_01 27:41

I hope. I just walked out and I was in, I just cried and cried and cried. And I ended up finding a gynecologist who's like, actually, let's try an ablation, which is where they burn the uterine lining. And that has worked brilliantly for me. And I got to keep my ovaries. And I'm just like, this is you have to don't assume just because it's a woman that she's going to have empathy and kindness and be up to date. I now have a male gynecologist, and he is fantastic and he is up to date. And I feel completely comfortable. I also love the fact that I go in and I'm like, so have you read my book, I'm your parigodmother? Because I kind of go pretty hard on doctors who aren't up to date.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

And he's like, oh yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I have no doubt, right? Just to make sure he's across that if you're coming as his patient. Let's turn to page, yeah, page 56.

unknown 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

I think though, that that that is a really important reflection.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Find your person or your people. Find your person. And honestly, that's when I am very much about sisterhood and saying, share it with your friends. If you've got a good specialist, make sure they know, get a referral to them. My GP on the Gold Coast was a regular GP. And so she ended up saying to me, So apparently now I'm a menopause specialist because my books are full because you've referred so many women to me. And the thing is, we are so desperate for someone who knows what they're talking about. But of course we're going to go to a woman who is highly educated in this area. And what I write in the book, which I think is important, is kind of what you touched on before with your daughter's app and things like that. You have to advocate for your own health. So recording your symptoms, being aware of what the symptoms are. And to me, by having something like that data that you take in, it's like presenting a case in court. So you go, here are my symptoms, here's how often they are, here are the here are the cycles, here are the, you know, the patterns. Here are the facts.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Correct. I think that's an excellent way of talking. I talk about it as your filing cabinet that's on your phone. Yeah. It's literally got everything, all your path, everything you have control. Like if you're traveling, I don't know if this ever happened to you, you know, you're overseas, something happens, or you're interstate or whatever, and you don't have your latest blood test, or you don't whatever you have to go looking at on your email, you don't have your this is a way of centralizing. And it's about ownership. And there, as you said quite correctly, Over Maye allows you to do that. And I think this is all aligned with the same mission that you're talking about, which is educate ourselves, own our data, own our own story. It's a narrative. And if you walk into your doctor's office with no narrative of who you are, what you're experiencing, and the ability to communicate that, it makes it very difficult also for the doctor to read the room and read you.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

So I say that it's very I also advise people that if you like I was, if you were depressed or if if there's a mental health element, which we know affects one in three women, one in three women get perimenopausal depression and anxiety. Take someone with you. So in my case, I had my husband and I needed him because I just cried entire appointment. But I've had friends who've taken their sister or their best friend, just so that they've got someone else who's on their side taking notes. Or I also suggest write the questions you've got down in your phone. Always if you get set or off kilter, you can go back to your phone and go, this is what I want answered in this session. The other thing is book a long appointment. You can't have a pair of menopause or menopause appointment in 15 minutes. It's not possible.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

I think that's very valid. And OVAM also has that facility. So it will, you can have a whole report and all the questions ready. So you go in and it allows you to do that. And I use it all the time because it means very much about advocating for yourself and being equipped. I love the idea of taking someone with you if you feel comfortable, because obviously you're talking about private things and some people may not want that, but it is a nice idea. I quite like that. Because I think people, there's a lot of fear about when you go, and you're right, a standard consult, 15 minutes. Is that supposed to be funny? Like, how are you meant to deal with pretty much anything in 15 minutes?

SPEAKER_01 32:01

But that's something that by campaigning with parliament that we have actually advocated for and changed. So now there is a different Medicare number for a long menopause appointment. We've managed to get some HRT on the PBS, which is half price. And there will be some education for doctors, like an online training module, but it's taking forever. Like we, I mean, we had the first meeting in 2023, it's now 2026. So it moves at a glacial pace, but I do think it is coming. And the only thing that worries me about the extra education is it will be very conservative. And we know from all of the doctors around the world that it's medicine is nuanced. You can't just go on clinical trials because we haven't had women in the clinical trials. We haven't, we haven't had enough studies on testosterone. We haven't had enough studies on so many parts of you know estrogen and how it affects every single cell in our body. So the doctor needs to use their skill to interpret the results, and that has to come from further education and experience.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

And for you personally, what do you think was the turning point for you? Was it medication? Was it the right was that but you not the antidepressant? You're saying that wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

No, so I even though it is not best practice to put a perimenopausal on antidepressants as a first line of defense, I think that because I, the first doctor I went to, when I told her all the symptoms, she said, Oh, you might have cancer. Like, yeah, like I got nothing. So I didn't go back and see another GP for nearly nine months. So my depression was so bad that I actually don't think the GP did the wrong thing by putting me on an antidepressant. And I have no shame or stigma about, you know, using antidepressants, but I know that it wasn't right. Well, it wasn't exactly what I needed because my depression was hormonal related. So therefore, you need to treat it with hormones. So the beautiful Professor Jay Shri Kalkhani, who is a psychiatrist from Monash Uni, she became my psychiatrist. She was controlling my HRT. She weaned me off the antidepressant and increased my HRT. And that was a really scary time because I was so I was feeling well. I was still getting what they call breakthrough depressions. So if I got run down, then you know everything would overwhelm me again. But she was the one who helped me and it made me realize the power of HRT and how much my hormones affect my body and my mood. And I think having someone like that, I call it a team of support. So I had a psychiatrist, I had a gynecologist, and I had a GP. So all you need your team together. Yeah. And then on top of that, I made some major lifestyle changes. So I started walking every single day. Now walking isn't going to help you lose weight, but oh my God, it's great for your brain. I'm the same. I do for your brain.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Right. It's like it's how you survive the day, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

And so walking every day, and I now do strength training twice a week where I am lifting heavy weights. And if you had told me six years ago that I would be, you know, weightlifting, I would have laughed in your face. And it's really been, I almost feel like a complete change in the way that I view myself, in that I don't want to shrink and become invisible in my midlife. I want to take up space. So part of that is I'm not aiming on the scales going down. I'm I'm aiming on my weight bar going up. And just last week I did a personal best of a 70 kilo back squat, which I'm so proud of because I had a full hip replacement in December. So that is impressive. That not only did I get myself really well and strong before the surgery, but I have recovered so well because I am doing all the lifestyle changes. I'm upping my protein. I'm really looking after my sleep because oh my God, I had no idea how I was just, you know, cheating my life by going to bed at midnight because that's what I used to do. Now I'm a 9:30 p.m. girl and my life is better for it. So I think you have to learn your own way and learn what works for you. But I don't want people to think that HRT is a quick fix because it's not. It's just one part of this process.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

A multifactorial.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, absolutely. And also you've got to take responsibility. You can't just expect a drug to fix everything. You need to go, I'm gonna work with this drug to help me be the best I can be. Because once you start feeling really well, you don't ever want to go back to feeling like you were.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

I think that's such a good point. And I also do think you talk about the midlife. I mean, basically, as far as I could see, the visibility of midlife women has become extraordinary. It's great. I am, I don't know, I am just like really, and I'm a little bit older than you, and I would like to say that I think it's the most exciting time, and we are owning it, and I am meeting the most extraordinary women in the arts, in medicine, in law, in every all firing on all cylinders, doing their thing and feeling more empowered. All of those things many are applying weight training, walking, all of the lots of protein, minimizing all of so there seems to be it's sort of like a little bit of a der moment to me. I'm like, of course that's gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

It's what I know, but we've all been told that our whole lives and no one really followed through with it. And once you actually start doing it, you're like, oh, how about that?

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Like, okay, well, I could have done this a decade ago. But yeah, I think, yeah, but the HRT track change has also made a big difference for a lot of women. Yeah. And as you say, education, talking about it, sharing our resources and getting a sense that we're all actually paddling our own canoe, but it's really nice to go out into the ocean and know that there's a whole lot of us. We're all there together. And that's part of what you're doing with your book. It's part of what you're doing with your show. And I'd like to thank you so much, Shelly, for sharing your journey and also for your insights and for the work you're doing in the perimenopausal space. It's really important and very and also I should say post-menopausal is also a really important space to. Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Because I think that once I think I might be postmenopausal now, but because I had the ablation, the only definition of menopause is one year without a period. Like, why don't we have the medical nuance to have a better definition for menopause. So then you're post-menopausal for the rest of your life. I think that this is our time to take up space and to I love it. You've you've gone through so much already, but now it's like, I'm sick of putting myself last on the to-do list. I'm moving myself to the top. So this is the time to really take stock, decide what you do want to do with your life, what you don't want to do, what doesn't serve you, see you later. This is the time to take life by the reins and actually really, this is the the final third of your life. Like, that's no time to be shrinking and getting smaller. That's time to be stepping up and being proud.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

And I just have to look at some of the extraordinary women around us, whether it's Helen Mirrin or whether it's Nicole Kimmer or whether whoever it is, and they don't have to be celebrity, but there are a lot of them that are just saying, I mean, hey, we just have to look at J Lo and all these women who are saying, wait a sec, or Madonna just released her latest album. I'm like, yay, go girl. I don't care that you're 67, do it, go for it. There's a lot of whether you like it or whether you don't, it's at the end of the day, paddle your own canoe, but also stand in your space and listen to your own voice, which is what you're saying. That's why we have the One of Late podcast. Yay! Well, I'm very glad. Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure. You you are very inspiring and I'm very excited for you. Lots of great stuff happening. Thank you so much for sharing all of the appointments. You are very welcome. I love it. All right, you take care. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Well, thank you for joining us on the What I've Learned podcast. I hope you enjoyed that interview because we are so privileged to have a wonderful platform where guests come on and share lessons learned, rivers crossed, mountains climbed. We love our shared humanity, and we are so grateful to have such a beautiful community. So remember to stay curious, kind, and connected. And we'll see you next time at the What I C Lamp Podcast.