Robyn Rodriguez - Empowering Women Leaders in HR

Summary:

Robyn Rodriguez is the Founder and CPO of Her HR Help Desk, an HR consulting firm that focuses on supporting women-owned businesses, career women, female founders, and women in c-suite roles.   In this episode, Robyn talks about the challenges that women leaders face and the strategies they can employ to overcome those challenges without burning out. 

Chapters:

[0:00 - 3:12] Introduction

• Welcome, Robyn!
• Today’s Topic: Empowering Women Leaders in HR

[3:13 - 10:38] What unique contributions do women bring to HR?

• The power of leading with soft skills
• Closing the gap between leading and decision making for women

[10:39 - 34:09] The consistent challenges women leaders in HR face

• On being set up for failure due to unrealistic expectations
• Why you have to take the time to advocate for yourself 

[34:10 - 41:03] Robyn’s advice for women leaders looking to overcome the challenges they face

• Why you should invest time in developing soft skills
• Leveraging the younger generations’ push for change in the workplace

[41:04 - 42:54] Closing

• Thanks for listening!

Quotes:

“I want to see more CHROs stepping up to develop the next leaders and making sure they’re prepared for the job. I think that would help alleviate impostor syndrome.”

“I’ve seen a lot of females in HR roles be the scapegoat for failures beyond their capacity of what they can do within an organization.”

Resources:
Her HR Helpdesk

Contact:
Robyn's LinkedIn
David's LinkedIn
Dwight's LinkedIn
Podcast Manger: Karissa Harris
Email us!

Transcript

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky alongside my trusted friend, co-host and partner at Salary.com, Dwight Brown. How are you, Dwight Brown?

Dwight Brown: 0:56

Good, David, how you doing?

David Turetsky: 0:57

I'm okay. But today I'm outstanding. Do you know why?

Dwight Brown: 1:01

Why?

David Turetsky: 1:02

Because we're talking to my friend Robyn Rodriguez, from Her HR HelpDesk, who is one of the most brilliant people I've met in a really long time. Robyn, how are you?

Robyn Rodriguez: 1:13

Oh, I was gonna respond and say, Oh, my God, thanks so much. I didn't want to toot my own horn so early in the podcast!

David Turetsky: 1:22

No, no, we're gonna toot that for you.

Robyn Rodriguez: 1:25

I'm great. We, David, we've been meaning to do this for a long, long time, so I'm very excited to be here today. And of course, love this topic.

David Turetsky: 1:34

I love it too. But before we get to the topic, tell everybody a little bit about yourself and a little bit about Her HR HelpDesk.

Robyn Rodriguez: 1:40

Yeah, definitely. So I'm Robyn Rodriguez. I am the founder and chief people officer of Her HR HelpDesk, which is an HR consulting firm, for women by women. What does that mean is that we focus on supporting women owned businesses, career women, female founders. And then women in the C suite, we really want to come in be an extension of their team and help them shine in their leadership role.

David Turetsky: 2:05

And we are very blessed to actually work with Robyn on a few different projects, and hopefully more at some point soon. But Robin also, before we go into our topic, what's one fun thing that no one knows about you?

Robyn Rodriguez: 2:19

Oh my god, I feel like I'm an open book on LinkedIn so everybody knows everything. I'm a dog mom, I rescue senior dogs, and I love wine. So I think those would be my two hobbies. And if you're in HR, and you don't drink wine, like what are you doing anyways? On the weekends?

David Turetsky: 2:35

Well, yeah. I don't drink wine but I have the dog part. We should probably look at founding a dog winery. How about that?

Robyn Rodriguez: 2:42

That would be really cool. I think I think one already exists, actually. But yeah, still a

Dwight Brown: 2:47

It's a bad idea.

David Turetsky: 2:51

Wah, wah, wah. So that wasn't my road caster. That was me. Alright, let's talk about our topic today because it's really kind of cool. The topic for today is keys to success, empowering women leaders in HR. So Robyn, the first question is, what are the unique contributions women bring to HR?

Robyn Rodriguez: 3:19

Well, I think a lot of the unique contributions women bring to HR is really just that, I want to say that feminine energy and not in a bad way. I know we're talking about this a lot but I think it really matters, especially with the younger generations of workers, and really having that compassion and empathy. You know, I think that is really the strongest skill set because women lead differently. And when you're leading people, you have to remember that people are people and not machines. And so I think that's really the strongest thing a woman brings to the world today when they're working in HR.

David Turetsky: 3:57

But I mean, beyond that, there's a lot of other things like, it's, it's probably, it's not overstating it to say that some of the advancements we've seen, not just in the world of HR, but obviously, elsewhere. You know, we can point back to some of the pioneers, and a lot of times we can point back to female pioneers in this space. Is there anybody that as you're kind of growing up in the HR space kind of led you to be in that as a pioneer, and kind of showed you the pathway forward?

Robyn Rodriguez: 4:28

You know, that's an interesting question. I'm kind of a rebel. So I've always done and learned a lot of things I saw that I didn't like, and that's really how I created Her HR HelpDesk. And the reason for that was I had to go out and create a space where I felt comfortable that I could be authentic and use my own voice and do these things before this kind of became a trend right. So I do think it is a lot of those soft skills. And I do think that women leaders do a lot of great things. I do think when women leaders cannot show up as their full self, I guess, at work or leader self, you know, they kind of then decide what sacrifices they're personally going to make to survive and work in an environment out of self preservation. So there's a lot of peeling back to that onion, I think that needs to happen. So that we can just do what we do best. And it is bring those soft skills, emotional intelligence, communication, you know, being able to stand up and really motivate people in a different way than maybe you know, a male CEO would do and seeing how can we do that in tandem, versus, you know, having it be so masculine directive, cut and dry as it was in the past.

David Turetsky: 5:46

I look at some of the female leaders that I've seen in my past and Maria Black, who now heads up ADP, she's the CEO of ADP, you know that those are strong leaders. Just saying the word strong leader, you don't have to qualify what gender they are, but it's wonderful to see that they're being recognized and elevated to the place that they should be, which is, you know, obviously this person was the right person for the job in that seat. And is there is there typically that that kind of thought process, of course, that she's the right person? Or do people go, well, you know, she was promoted, because she was a woman.

Robyn Rodriguez: 6:27

I don't know about all that. I mean, I think you'd be you're groomed in such a big org like that. And I mean, I worked at ADP, so I have to, like tread lightly here, right?

David Turetsky: 6:37

This is a positive thing. This is a positive thing!

Robyn Rodriguez: 6:39

No, no, I know. But I mean, are we grooming women into that role? And then is she, you know, authentic to

David Turetsky: 6:42

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 6:43

And I think we do need to qualify the gender herself? So that's the thing where I think it's like, if we look at, you know, Claude Silver does a really good job of this of saying, I'm a heart lead, you know, Chief people, Officer she's with Gary Vaynerchuk. I really have a lot of admiration for her. And she has a job. That is like a dream job in HR, do 95% of companies give their CHRO the ability to be that person? They don't. So yes, I think they're strong leaders. I love so many female leaders in C suites. But we do have to acknowledge that they're female, because there aren't just enough, and so right now, if we have to shamelessly plug, she's a female, that's why she got the job. I don't know that that's the right way to say it. But she's a female, and she deserves that job. And she's worked for that job. because the numbers are still so small. Even in HR, we see women all over. But are women the true decision makers in HR? And that's where I think there's a still a big gap that we need to address.

Dwight Brown: 7:50

It's calling out the inequity that is just there and not necessarily saying she got it because she's a woman. But what I hear you saying is, let's call out what what the situation currently is so that we're all maintaining awareness going forward?

Robyn Rodriguez: 8:08

Yeah, exactly. A lot of female HR leaders get stuck at a glass ceiling. Right? And, and that's really hard to break through I myself have been stuck in that glass ceiling, in a VP role and I don't have leadership opportunities to develop me further. So in an organization as large as ADP, it's great that we can build leaders, but you have to be intentional about doing that.

David Turetsky: 8:32

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 8:34

I'm often caught in, you know, a big controversy here about ERG's, and we have women employee resource groups, that's amazing and that's how we support our women. But how many women are being plucked out of those groups or out of their roles and really being developed to be executive leaders in an organization, you don't need to have 250,000 employees to do that.

David Turetsky: 9:04

That's true. That is very true. But then again, Dwight knows we're going to talk about ERGs and how wonderful they are. The problem I think, with that is that isn't that supposed to be really a safe space where people can be themselves, they can be expressive, they can ask for help on things, but it really not leave that space? It's kind of like what goes in what what's said in ERG stays in ERG?

Robyn Rodriguez: 9:27

Well, you know, it's interesting, as I just did a presentation to younger women about advocating for themselves. We address that in the workplace, outside of the workplace, and then I had two ERGs call to ask me to speak to them. One ERG, I thought was so I'm so excited. I haven't done this chat yet. But the woman told me like we live our company values, so they already have permission and they have a safe space at a company level. And so they don't need to go to this room, like right, virtual room of an ERG to have a safe space.

David Turetsky: 10:02

Not exactly the circumstances that a lot of people face, though.

Robyn Rodriguez: 10:05

That's right. That's right. And I have one that's a little bit different, you know, the other one I'm talking to, it's a very male led industry. And so we're approaching these two conversations, even though, you know, the foundation is still advocating for themselves, the tips, tricks, techniques, what they need to do are different.

David Turetsky: 10:22

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 10:22

So it's a lot to do with organizational culture as well.

David Turetsky: 10:26

Absolutely.

Announcer: 10:28

Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by Salary.com. Now, back to the show.

David Turetsky: 10:39

That leads me to ask the second question. So as you talk to your peers and your clients, what are the challenges beyond that, breaking through that culture that we just talked about, that you consistently hear?

Robyn Rodriguez: 10:51

Yeah, I mean, my own challenges, the fight I'm fighting currently today, is, I'm so sick of "98% of HR people are burnt out in their jobs," period. There's no action plan to remediate or fix that. That's problematic when our leaders aren't coming in to support us. And that's not gender, again, gender specific. When we go into what we can do to set our female HR leaders up for success. Some of the things I'm consistently hearing is that we're just being set up for failure. Like, I can't do everything. I am potentially a mom, I'm a dog mom, I have other competing priorities. And so I really want to see leaders of companies acknowledge the other things we have going on and set us up for success. I think we know once we get up the chain, we know we're going to have to make some sacrifices to be in a leadership role, because it's a big job. It's a hard job. But are those sacrifices fair? Are they realistic? Or do we need to have stronger conversations and interview processes up front as to what the expectation of that leader is in that role?

David Turetsky: 12:10

I think that goes without saying of, of any job that you get promoted into is that you have to have that expectation as to how does this change what I do and who I am. Because we often don't have that. We often ignore that because it's kind of the suck it up, you're getting promoted. And here's a bunch more money. So we're paying for you, right? It's not, it's not a, hey, we recognize you have kids and you know, male or female, you got kids, you want to go home and take care of them or you are home, and you have to take them off the bus and whatnot. It's the, you know, suck it up and just deal with it.

Dwight Brown: 12:41

Prioritize us over your kids, and

David Turetsky: 12:43

Exactly what the hell's that?

Dwight Brown: 12:45

Thanks. I'm alright.

Robyn Rodriguez: 12:48

Well, yeah, you shouldn't have to, but in today's world, you kind of have to, you know? When it's just like, oh, the that, you know, the kids and the husband come after, you know, all of the employees. And I said, this during COVID, I was talking to another HR person, where I was working, and I said, I'm taking care of 14,999 people, but there's 15,000 people at this company. And the one I'm not taking care of is me!

David Turetsky: 13:13

And probably most important person there, to you.

Robyn Rodriguez: 13:15

Well, I mean, if you want me to get things done!

David Turetsky: 13:19

Exactly.

Robyn Rodriguez: 13:19

I've got to refuel my tank, like I've got it to show up like this. I've got to, I've got to recharge the batteries. Right? And so I think that there, you know, needs to be some focus on that.

Dwight Brown: 13:33

So the question that I've got is, do females feel like they have to sacrifice more to be in those leadership positions? Do they, do you think there's a difference in the way that females feel about that versus males?

Robyn Rodriguez: 13:49

Yeah, I do. I do. Because I feel like what I was gonna, what we can layer into this is imposter syndrome. I just think, you know, a lot of females, sadly, and this is something we have to change. I really hate imposter syndrome. To me, that's a self worth issue. There's so much impostor syndrome as you move up the ladder into these leadership roles, especially like for myself being so young. I just had the benefit, that I was born with a big voice and didn't care, you know, and so I kind of just would plow through those barriers. I don't necessarily know that in today's world that would I be able to achieve what I did back then by using my, you know, aggressive voice and force. I don't think. Not in today's world. But I

David Turetsky: 14:39

You don't think? thought I think it's because it's not me. And now like, I get this permission to be more of who I am instead of wearing all of this armor to come into work every day. And that is exhausting. So I'm just not going to give into that anymore, I'm just going to be that sometimes Robyn is, you know, I say I run Her HR HelpDesk, our two values are empathy and precision, I want to be empathetic, that is who I am as a human. Precision is compliance, getting things done and going into execution mode, and making sure things are done right from an HR operations perspective. And that we're not dropping the ball and forgetting reporting, because we care about culture. You know, both are equally important in my world. So I want to show up as that person and take the armor off, just so I think that can make me a big leader, again, to our point, how many spaces that allow you to do that?

Robyn Rodriguez: 15:43

If you're having to do that, and you're

David Turetsky: 15:43

Right. having to be that forceful HR leader, and then you know, you're coming home, and you're probably just zonked. And that's why 98% of HR professionals are burnt out.

Dwight Brown: 15:58

And now we know.

David Turetsky: 15:59

The more you know! But so let's say it this way, you're you're

Robyn Rodriguez: 16:00

Yeah. saying they're on a treadmill, they're running really fast, they have to have that layer of armor around them to protect themselves, because they feel like if they don't, they're going to be, well, first of all, they're gonna be overwhelmed by all the work that that's necessary, and also going to, you know, they feel like they have to protect themselves. Is there a solution to that? Is there something that can be done about that? Yeah, that's a tough one. Because, you know, are we going to change our entire C suite and leadership teams? No, are we going to change companies, maybe! You know, but how do we drive that? And that's where I think we really, I would like to see more mentorship and more sponsors, within or either inside their organization or outside of it. You know, I want to see more CHROs stepping up to really develop these next leaders and make sure they're prepared for the job. And I think that would help alleviate impostor syndrome. I was very fortunate that I had sponsors that were men in the organization that did that for me. And, and I'm forever grateful for those men for having my back. But I got those sponsors because I worked my ass off. Because I showed up looking one way, and being fun and loud, and all these things. And then, you know, a PWC partner walked in one day and asked me something about taxes. And I turned back and I said, here's where all of our taxes are, here's where we're falling short, here's what we need to do. And we have this deep conversation. And he said, God, I just gained so much respect for you that day. And as an external partner, he really helped propel my career really backed me up in that organization. And together we got a lot done.

David Turetsky: 17:56

Is part of it. And please excuse this is part of it, luck finding that person? Or is it being able to, or being good enough to find that person either inside or outside the organization that can help you be that mentor to tell you what you're not doing well, or how to see the light, or how to see something differently inside yourself?

Robyn Rodriguez: 18:22

Yeah, but to see the light your eyes have to be open. And what I'm learning is a lot of this has to do with being an inside job. I have to be able to take constructive criticism, I also have to have enough confidence to show up in that room and say what I'm thinking. You know, I also need to have compelling data, to tell a story, I need to know my people, I need to know what we're working on. I need to know their challenges, you know, so I need to be sure that I am fully researched up to date, as knowledgeable as possible, you know, in HR in those fields, so I can like talk a good game when I show up. So as we talked about advocating for yourself and looking for sponsors and mentors, I gained a lot of that because I was knowledgeable. You know, I gained a lot of that credibility because I was on the board of the Los Angeles American Payroll Association when I was 25 years old. That was definitely probably the most boring thing I did when I was 25. But it got me it got me a lot of credibility, right? It got me a lot of credibility. And it was fun

Dwight Brown: 19:29

Yeah. because the part I enjoyed was teaching other payroll professionals preparing them for their test and, and you know, kind of being that example. So, for me, it's like, yes, you have to do that. But then also you have to have the confidence to ask. Like I asked that partner, hey, will you put in a good word with CEO next time you see him? Because I just saved our company a million dollars, like, can you throw Robyn a bone, you know? I mean, and you have to be fearless.

David Turetsky: 20:00

But that's not nothing, right? People that don't advocate for themselves after having saved the company a million dollars, they should kind of stand up and go, yeah, that was me, I did that. You know, because if you leave that on the cutting room floor, there's no one that's going to come by and sweep it up and go, Wow, who did this? No one knows! It's kind of like, does a bear poop in the woods? Yeah, of course, we've seen it. You know, somebody videotaped it. But no one cares. But this is big. I mean, this is huge. And people have to be able to understand that that's got to be something that they trumpet from the from the top of rooftops.

Robyn Rodriguez: 20:40

Yeah, absolutely. And I also think, like we said, toot your own horn, and it would be shocking to you even here working at Her HR HelpDesk, when I talk to CEOs, female CEOs, and how much they don't sell themselves, like at their company, to as a leader, to their employees, to their customers, you know. And so to your point, I asked women all the time, do you have a list of your biggest accomplishments? And they say, No, we don't even keep a list. Because we're on the treadmill. We're stuck in the day to day, we're never unplugging, we're never going back. We're never giving ourselves that our own credibility, like how we're showing up for these, everybody else, but ourselves. Like at least make a list about that and talk about it when it comes to your performance review, or talk about those 10 things in the next executive meeting.

David Turetsky: 21:34

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 21:35

Whenever you have the space, I want you to shamelessly plug yourself and your accomplishments.

David Turetsky: 21:41

I'm sure at the board meeting that stuff has to come up. I mean, you know that she, that person being on the treadmill, they have to be able to toot that horn at that level, or they're going to lose their job.

Dwight Brown: 21:55

Probably the results come up.

David Turetsky: 21:57

Yep.

Dwight Brown: 21:58

Who would they center around? Probably a little different conversation.

David Turetsky: 22:03

But at the CEO level, though, Dwight, you know, and maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, both of you. But the CEO level, anything that happens in the company is either your fault or your success, right? So if things are going okay, and nothing's you know, nothing's falling off the truck, that's good. If results are being met, that's good. If they're not, that's your fault.

Dwight Brown: 22:26

And let's face it, though, it's it is not necessarily a matter of it's either a failure or a success. It's usually who failed? And then we gloss over the successes.

Robyn Rodriguez: 22:39

Well, I don't know! I think I got two things here. I've seen a lot of females in HR roles be the scapegoat for failures beyond their capacity of what they can do within an organization.

Dwight Brown: 22:56

Right.

David Turetsky: 22:56

Yes.

Robyn Rodriguez: 22:56

Like, okay, so that's one thing, right? So that's one thing. And then to your point, Dwight successes and failures, we're in this like time, where we're being forced out of the dinosaur age to redefine what's a success and what's a failure. As an HR consultant, you know, will always tell you, Oh, this is an opportunity!

David Turetsky: 23:21

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 23:21

Opportunities. Oh, God, if I dream one more night about HR opportunities! But, you know, I think that we can redefine that. And, you know, one thing I had on my list as I prepared for this was trusting our decisions.

David Turetsky: 23:39

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 23:40

And to your point, Dwight, we're talking about the end results, but are we talking about the work that's being put in in between, you know? And when I tell leaders that advocate, it's not about advocating for yourself, if you have a team, you better be advocating for your team!

Dwight Brown: 23:55

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 23:56

And then that makes you shine and in essence, they advocate for you. But if we're not talking about those accomplishments, and we're just saying we save the company a million bucks. We're not doing a good job of telling a compelling story as to why it was better for Robyn to be involved in the million dollar savings than anybody else.

David Turetsky: 24:19

Storytelling is a skill. Not a lot of people have it. You do, but a lot of people don't. Because a lot of people don't feel comfortable that they can organize their thoughts in a way that makes sense in a story.

Robyn Rodriguez: 24:35

Get your ass off the treadmill and go to Toastmasters. That is literally going to be the strongest skill. As AI comes into play, as we use data and metrics, you have to be a storyteller

David Turetsky: 24:51

Absolutely 100%. As you transition from being an administrator pushing forms to telling the story of why your company has turnover or why your company can't hire the right people. Storytelling is key.

Robyn Rodriguez: 25:06

Correct. And that's where I think leaders fall short. That's what I think those stories aren't being told in the boardroom that way. I think we're going through a slide deck, but we're not telling the stories. We might not have the opportunity. But that is where the world is going.

David Turetsky: 25:21

Well, slide decks are in invariably just boring as hell. Because people rely on words, and they rely on people to watch the words and go, oh, I'm reading that as this person's talking. I'm not really listening to them. I'm just looking at that.

Dwight Brown: 25:33

Right.

David Turetsky: 25:33

Instead of it being like a TED Talk where, you know, there's a word on the slide, and the person's just telling the story about it.

Robyn Rodriguez: 25:40

Yeah, the other thing that happens a lot with HR and boards in board meetings and rooms behind those rooms, is we're just talking about the Comp Committee stuff. Here. are we promoting these people? Are we giving them this money? Are we doing this? And we're running through that and then we've lost the attention, right? So again, it's strategy. Strategy is what's gonna set you apart, like you said, from just the, the basic HR manager, boss, to a leader, this strategy is the difference of thinking, and just getting off the treadmill and thinking from the top, you know? I was out with my girlfriend recently, or this past weekend, drinking wine, no surprise there. She was visiting from town, and she just recently got promoted. And she's a leader, she's managing teams now. And she said, I had to redefine what success look like, because I'm no longer a consultant delivering the work. Success looks like for me building strong relationships. So having a great conversation, where I'm building rapport internally or externally, with clients, or other leaders in the business is success. But I really had to change my mindset to get there. And that's again, strategy, right? That's from going like writing everything in the deck, to delivering value out of that deck.

David Turetsky: 26:58

It's so hard to change from tactical, to strategic, your minds, you. It's basically an orthogonal thought, you know, I don't have to worry about how the the payroll change form gets done. I just have to worry about how many payroll change forms have we done? And what does it mean to the company?

Robyn Rodriguez: 27:16

Yeah.

Dwight Brown: 27:16

You're literally using another hemisphere of your brain, but only through this strategy can you actually guide the conversation.

David Turetsky: 27:22

Exactly, exactly. But also, if you're on a treadmill that's strategy, that's a very different treadmill than a treadmill on tactics. Right?

Dwight Brown: 27:32

Right. Yeah.

Robyn Rodriguez: 27:32

Yep. I mean, because then those I call those, you know, $200,000 slide decks, I've made a lot of those. So you get you present change, right? Truly, my background is HR transformation

Dwight Brown: 27:41

Yep. and change and like pre COVID, that was a commodity.

David Turetsky: 27:48

Yeah, right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 27:49

Post COVID it's a necessity, right? HR transformation and change and being able to think and think bigger, you know. So you're right, when you're on a strategy treadmill, and you can't execute or get anything past the line, you're also probably likely to lose your job, like the person on the treadmill, getting the personnel action forms done, right? Like, you know, 100 forms, getting it done, getting everybody you know, everybody's taking care of and, and not being strategic, it's equally a fault on the opposite side of being so high in the sky that you don't understand where you can make swift changes in the business that have an impact so you could build data and tell that story.

David Turetsky: 28:28

And that's the mindset differential right there. That's it. If we could nail it down in a nutshell, Robyn, you just nailed it. And when HR people think about getting promoted, or they think about changing their level, or they think about how their career goes, that exact change in mindset, has to be at the cornerstone of making that change. Because if they can't do that, don't bother, don't do it, you're going to be a fish out of water, you've got to learn how to get there. And once you get there, and once you understand it, then you're going to be swimming with all the other fishes and you're going to be happy, and you're going to be in nice warm water. I don't think I can nail that analogy anymore.

Robyn Rodriguez: 29:13

I mean, as long as warm water is on the beach.

Dwight Brown: 29:18

Yeah, with wine.

Robyn Rodriguez: 29:20

But you know the challenges, the challenge is with all of that there's no HR school. How are we learning this? Where are we learning from?

David Turetsky: 29:30

People are coming to the HR Data Labs podcast to learn this. Talking to Robyn Rodriguez.

Robyn Rodriguez: 29:35

Yeah, so I think that what's great with social media with LinkedIn. You know, David, you and I often talk on LinkedIn because I spend a lot of time there just educating myself, reading people's opinions, joining groups, expanding your knowledge, finding HR people that have that growth mindset, and a continuous learning and doing that. Reading books that are not HR and how can we apply those principles, you know, back into HR. Some, you know, recently I saw a lot of, hey, let's treat HR, like we treat a customer success team or a product team or things like that, right, and make those changes. But there are skills that we can leverage out of, you know, other areas in the business to help build the HR function. And if you don't know, then you can go ask a peer and say, hey, how do you guys do this? Or, Hey, I like that. I like the way you told that story! Or how are you pulling this data out of the system? What can I leverage so that I can be stronger in what I'm providing as an ROI to the company?

David Turetsky: 30:38

Right. I think HR has learned a lot of lessons from marketing. I think HR has learned a lot of lessons from finance, about how to operate better, how to operate more efficiently, how to tell stories better, and how to be more thoughtful of the analytical nature of business today, as far as transformation goes.

Robyn Rodriguez: 30:58

But I want to see people backing it up, I don't want to see marketing teams telling HR stories, and then you get you sign a deal with this company, and nobody's answering the phone. Right? And you're not getting any support on the back end. I talked about that, you guys can go back in my feed I'm not gonna say who it is here, but they had like these two women with leather jackets on and they're like we do HR and Payroll, well, we're so amazing. We're a great brand. And then when you log into their system on the backend, like it's archaic. Years that they're not collecting any data I can use to tell a story other than names, addresses, phone numbers like that, that's selling data, that's not data I can utilize and build back into my business.

David Turetsky: 31:44

Right. So what you're saying is, is that it's okay to emulate, but you have to learn how it impacts your business. Don't just take it lock stock and barrel.

Robyn Rodriguez: 31:54

Yeah, yeah, you know, get in and really know your business and and then do that. I mean, and HR people also, we're getting better about learning the business that we're operating at, right? We think we're in the business of people. But if we're working at a tech company, or FinTech or whatever, like how are we developing our people to build the best FinTech technology in the ecosystem? How are we delivering there? Like, you have to again, think way bigger, you have to know what the company is working on? What are the initiatives? What are what are the CEO's initiatives? And how can we connect the dots to our people initiatives to get us where we need to go as an organization?

David Turetsky: 32:41

And HR alignment to the overall business plan. You know, I know that sounds foreign, but shouldn't be. It should always be the case that the HR business plan is aligned to the organizational business plan, top level, bottom level everything! It needs to be able to follow it and be able to focus on it and support it.

Robyn Rodriguez: 33:01

Yeah, yeah, you're kind of living on that line of operations, right? Like, you know, being locked in step with the COO or understanding the operational needs of the business are huge. You know, and, and HR operations are huge. You know, I love right now, we're a lot into that culture, I get you, but HR operations, what happens on the back end efficiencies, user technology adoption, right? Again, the numbers as we build out as I work with you and your teams to build out comp plans, like, that's huge. That's HR operations, those are things where that precision is required. You can't fake it till you make it there.

David Turetsky: 33:44

Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind. Go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. Let's go back to the original purpose, though. Is there anything in specific that is the challenge for females working in that environment that you would say, this is where I would tell you to invest your time?

Robyn Rodriguez: 34:24

Yeah, I think investing your time in what you can bring to the table is going to be the best kind of skill that you can work on right now. And I know it sounds dumb again, but soft skills can really set you apart here as we get into leadership. But yeah, I mean, I think that female leaders need to really understand their own value. And I think that that really starts with being an inside job like what are you good at? Where are your deficiencies? Who can help you with those deficiencies? Where can I find these things? And where can I go and look? I see a lot of people in HR groups, Facebook groups and stuff asking questions, but they're not asking to learn, you know, who can help me learn this? Hey, can I have a call with you? Can we talk through this, you know, and using those resources, but there's a lot of perfection paralysis. And that's not us. Our companies have said, HR people, this is not gender specific, up that everything has to be executed flawlessly, you can't make a mistake, or you're gonna lose your job. So what do you do? You get back on that treadmill, you don't have any space.

David Turetsky: 35:41

And you worry about perfection.

Dwight Brown: 35:43

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 35:43

And you worry about perfection, and you don't have any space to shine, because you're constantly under getting grind, grinded, you know, why? Like, in the meat grinder?

David Turetsky: 35:54

Exactly.

Robyn Rodriguez: 35:55

And so like, can you just be like, Hey, I'm gonna do this, and not that we're gonna fail. I mean, this is the thing. And these are the opportunities and the lessons learned. That's something that I've we've leveraged. I've leveraged a lot with prod through Project Management, right, which is, you know, a good tool to have in HR, and program management, what were the lessons learned? What could we have done better? Or sitting around the table again, and just saying, Hey, today, it's just a session of what could go wrong. Let's all talk it out, and then think of every scenario and how we can combat that. And then when you think of those things, it's like who's really answering the phones now? Because now we've got somebody working in HR inbox, that's the HR coordinator. We've got shared services, people answering the phones, like, are we equipping them at that low level with the tools they need to be successful? Because if not, then we're not going to be successful.

David Turetsky: 36:53

Right. Exactly. You can't focus 100% on the strategic and ignore the tactical, you still have to support the tactical.

Robyn Rodriguez: 37:00

Yeah, definitely. So look at that seems like there's a lot of things we need to do. Which is part of the reason why 98% of HR people are burned out.

David Turetsky: 37:13

Totally agree. And that leads us to, to ask the question of, is there really ever a solution? The answer is probably no, it's probably try, do your best. Perfection is never gonna happen. Right?

Robyn Rodriguez: 37:30

Well, this is the good old adage of, you know, in self development here. It's like, what do we control? You know?

David Turetsky: 37:38

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 37:39

And what don't we control? And you know, I feel I feel like the pressure, Dwight, going back to your earlier question for female leaders as we own so many things. As far as like being a mom, what if you're a single mom and an HR leader, you probably can't speak up and be yourself because you need your job! You know, and so you don't want to be a contrarian because you got to keep your job to feed your kids. You know, there's a lot of different things on the line here. To your point, how do we solve for that? How do we solve for that when we can't control that? Right? We can't control that there are leaders that are working out of self preservation,

David Turetsky: 38:18

Right.

Robyn Rodriguez: 38:18

that are basically then making all of us modern HR leaders that really want to take these next initiatives to the next level. They make our work harder for us.

David Turetsky: 38:29

It's, it seems impossible, but there is hope. You're only as old as you think you are.

Robyn Rodriguez: 38:33

It does seem impossible, but there is hope, and there's hope in the fact that companies are changing, there's hope in the fact that instead of all of us older, you know, HR leaders talking about the younger generations as Oh my God, they don't want to come to work. Like what can we leverage that they're bringing in and and challenging us to do better that we can benefit off of, you know. And I joke with somebody because this older woman and I were talking about something and I say older, I'm 45, but like people coming in the workforce are, I know I'm not that old, but people comin in the workforce are 20 whatever. You know? And so I'm thinking like, they think I'm old! I don't think I'm old, but they do.

Dwight Brown: 39:18

Yeah, they think we're ancient.

Robyn Rodriguez: 39:19

Yeah. When I mentor, you know, here in Austin, I forget that these you know, I'm mentoring these younger women, and I'm like, almost the age of their parents.

David Turetsky: 39:28

Yeah.

Robyn Rodriguez: 39:28

Right! And then I'm like, oh, then that makes me feel.

David Turetsky: 39:32

I guess you're not, least you're not old enough to be their grandparent like me.

Dwight Brown: 39:38

It's about the point that I'm at too!

Robyn Rodriguez: 39:40

We'll be the cool, the cool parents. But the point of all that is really that, you know, what can we leverage from that? And in that conversation with that woman, I told her, you know, you just said you like to do yoga, but you're now, like the younger generation is helping us get to the point where it's socially acceptable for us to clock out

at five or 5: 40:04

30, to be able to go to yoga. You know, there's value in that! I don't think a lot of people see value in that. I see a lot of value in that. I see a lot of that generation pushing corporations to change. And now what's so interesting is we're in a big fight, right? We got the return to office stuff. I'm just here watching from the sidelines, I'm really enjoying all the ads and stuff. But we're seeing all of that happen. And and does that return to office initiatives put us back a few years in supporting women and a work life balance?

David Turetsky: 40:41

Totally agree.

Robyn Rodriguez: 40:41

That's that's the bigger question.

David Turetsky: 40:43

And that's a question we can answer in the next time we have you on the HR Data Labs podcast, Robyn! Because that, in and of itself is an entirely different chapter of this conversation.

Robyn Rodriguez: 40:54

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

David Turetsky: 41:04

I want to thank you, first off, thank you, Dwight. Thank you for being here, my friend.

Dwight Brown: 41:09

Yeah. Thank you!

David Turetsky: 41:10

And then we'll thank Robyn.

Robyn Rodriguez: 41:12

Thank you!

Dwight Brown: 41:13

Appreciate you being with us, Robyn. That was awesome.

David Turetsky: 41:15

It is our honor. And as as I said, we're gonna have to have you back again, because there's just so much more to talk about.

Robyn Rodriguez: 41:21

Yeah. And thanks to you guys both for being open. I know, David, you and I talk about this all the time, you know, how can you do better? But you know, being open, being an ally, supporting women in the workplace, which as I know you do, and you're recently promoted into that big role. And big title.

David Turetsky: 41:38

So on the treadmill? Yeah.

Dwight Brown: 41:41

As I call him the chro.

David Turetsky: 41:44

Yeah.

Robyn Rodriguez: 41:46

Yeah. But, but yeah, I always appreciate you creating space for us as, us women coming up in the game.

David Turetsky: 41:54

And, you know, it's something where I've made mistakes in my past, and I'm learning every day. And knowing that I'm a fallible idiot man, that I've got to do better, I've really got to do better. Can't use my privilege. I gotta be able to be, to see things differently to walk a mile in other people's shoes, or at least an inch, and figure out what I can do to be better and be different.

Robyn Rodriguez: 42:18

Yeah, I love that.

David Turetsky: 42:20

Well, Robyn again, thank you very much. You're awesome. Take care and everybody take care and stay safe.

Announcer: 42:26

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