S4 E2 - Darlene Coyle - Watersheds Canada

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Meredith Meeker 0:00

hello. And welcome to all my fellow meandering mallards. I'm your host Meredith Meeker. And this is another episode of how do I do this and environmental career podcast. This week, I sit down with our guest Darlene coil. She is currently the lead for the planning for our shore lands program at watersheds Canada. She's also the policy project coordinator for the Canadian youth biodiversity network. She is passionate about protecting and restoring fresh water features so they can be enjoyed by generations to come. So let's get into. Darlene, thank you so much for being with me today. To start off, can you say your pronouns and your full name?

Darlene Coyle 0:48

So my name is Darlene coil and my pronouns. Are she her?

Meredith Meeker 0:53

Awesome. Thank you so much. And it's a beautiful sunny day here. So what's your favorite thing to do to get outside? And I guess you could be inside, but your favorite thing to do to connect with nature. Yeah,

Darlene Coyle 1:08

totally. I think like an annual basis type of thing, I think hiking is kind of my go-to. Just being outside and slowing things down and noticing the little things, noticing the stillness and the wildlife. It's something you really can't get in the city. Just being able to get out there and just a little bit away, find some green space. Be still for awhile. I would say kayaking would also be one of those things basically for this exact same reason, but from a water perspective, but you can't always do that in all times of the year. So hiking would probably be my

Meredith Meeker 1:41

go-to. Yeah. Rivers around here are pretty frozen. Do you have a favorite either hiking or kayaking destination?

Darlene Coyle 1:48

All over. As a result of pandemic, I was trying to just try to find some like these hidden places a little bit. But going into tonight, Agra falls just going out in that direction. I on the lake has a lot of really nice ones. I'm in a tobacco, so you really got to drive to find those places, but it's worth it for.

Meredith Meeker 2:06

Very nice. And now that we know what you like to do outside to connect to nature, can you tell us a little bit about what you do, between your nine to five and why your job is just so important?

Darlene Coyle 2:20

Sure. I am the environmental policy and planning program lead at watersheds Canada. And for anyone who's not really familiar with watersheds Canada, we are a, we're a nonprofit and registered charity that seeks to provide a number of programs to protect. Of Canada's lakes and rivers, mainly through the protection and re naturalization of their shorelines. And so I am currently leading the planning for our shore lands program. So I work with a diverse steering committee to develop a best management practices, toolkit to try to help municipalities strengthen policies and procedures around regulating waterfront. So we'll also host a series of online discussion forums where professional planners and municipal staff can kind of come together from all over Ontario to discuss common, but very complex problems that municipalities are faced with regarding shoreline development and to openly try to discuss ways of addressing them. And the reason why that's so important is because it helps to educate and identify some. Some successful tools used by other municipalities to address a very prominent issue, which is that traditionally development has tried to be done as close to the water as possible. And that has kind of resulted in a continued hardening of our shorelines, which is like the, I say shore lands because it encompasses a lot more of the land than just the shoreline. It's about like the 10 to 15 years in the water. And we have continued to harden that, that area through stone retaining walls riprap, and even mowing a lawn to the water's edge has a significant impact on water, quality, wildlife, erosion, and even flood risks. And so the issue goes beyond, I mean, it's colony being able to say, okay, you can't build their needs. Because it goes beyond because it's been going on for so long and it's gotten ingrained in a lot of people that this is just the way that we do things now. And I think part of it is that many people still have this perception that the right to own land is an absolute right to do whatever they want on their property, regardless of what that means to them. Which is just not true. Like looking at it from a larger perspective let's say Meredith, like you bought a piece of property. You probably bought that land from somebody who bought it from somebody else. You bought it from somebody else and looking at it from the other perspective, let's say you live on that property for five, 10 years. You want to move on. You're going to sell that property to someone who's going to sell it to somebody else. Who's going to sell it to somebody else. If you see where I'm going with this. And so the only constant in that situation is the land and the water. Which is why we have municipal bylaws to regulate shoreline activity and development to be enjoyed in the long-term by everyone over generations. And and that's partly because we should all have a right to enjoy the water. Just like either previous generations have done it. And especially as a waterfront property owner, I think there's a responsibility there to protect the water from what happens on land, because whatever you do on land adjacent to a water body has direct impacts on the beauty, the health, the enjoyment of the water, which nobody. Yeah. And at what we've seen is as a result of the pandemic, a lot more people are turning to home improvement, projects, landscaping and stuff, which only increases pressures. I mean, as palliatives to issue permits, try to collect the appropriate studies to make informed decisions. And so that's kind of where we come in to help support them through tools and education. Not only to municipal staff, but also the land owners then.

Meredith Meeker 6:12

Wow. I feel like there's so much to unpack there. Like very important work, which is amazing. Also make sense, based on your job, why you connect so much with kayaking, you get to explore and enjoy these watersheds and shore lands from the water perspective. And I loved what you were getting across about how. It's everyone's right. You know, regardless of what generation you're from to enjoy the land and water. And I feel like it really connects with that indigenous perspective of seven generations, right? What you're doing, shouldn't impact somebody who's not even born yet. And your decisions shouldn't have that negative impact that make them not be able to enjoy the water. I grew up in Toronto, so we are like, I feel like the Capitol. Of hard shore lands, like all of the ports and things, and so many places you couldn't swim when I was growing up. So you definitely see the impacts and what a different city Toronto would be. If Ontario was a safe place for all of lake Ontario to be a safe place, to swim and enjoy. I feel like it's really important work. So thank you for doing it.

Darlene Coyle 7:23

It was my pleasure. I grew up in Toronto too. And I remember it you go to the beaches or something and there'd be an issue or there'd be a notice being like you can't spend there. And as a kid, you'd be like, I don't know why we can't swim. There's just water. And there's only some that education piece being like, oh, we're doing stuff. To make it so we can enjoy it. And so there's that association there that I think has a huge impact on people.

Meredith Meeker 7:48

Yeah. And as someone who I actually recently moved to a home, fairly close to the Ottawa river. And I remember when we were looking at. Made sure we were outside of the floodplain because I'm like, this could have huge impacts. And yet we're not the first street on our, or we're not the first house on our street, close to the water. Right. There's three or four houses past us that are definitely in the flood plain. Yeah. And these are old homes, so I mean, it is historical, but people are going to renovate them because they're cute little bungalows. So there are going to be more impacts and. Yeah, it's definitely something that you see a lot of kind of know nowhere, no matter where you are in Southern Ontario,

Darlene Coyle 8:29

lots of things. It's a very big Southern Ontario issue. Like a lot of Southern Ontario used to be wetlands. And what we've historically done is we've just filled them in build over top. And then all of a sudden we're surprised when it gets flooded. This is just understanding the landscape and just we need to stop working against it and just start realizing, okay, this is how the land works. How can we work with it?

Meredith Meeker 8:50

Okay. Yeah, they actually put in a very big bird near our house because there was such massive flooding, 2017. I believe I could be wrong. Don't quote me on that date. There's now a berm and it's a restoration area as well, because they had to take. Area of wetland and like shore lands to, to build that berm. Yeah. Anyway, it seems like we're just trying to play catch up whenever we start messing with natural systems. But anyway,

Darlene Coyle 9:20

that's what mother nature she pushes back.

Meredith Meeker 9:23

Yeah, I know. And I'm like trying to think should we get a rain barrel? Should we build a rain garden help with infiltration? But I feel like I'm in the minority, maybe things would be. A little bit better, but hopefully we'll maybe get into some actual practical stuff later in the interview. But first I want to hear about your journey. How did you get to where you are now working with watersheds Canada?

Darlene Coyle 9:48

I don't really know how far back you want me to go

Meredith Meeker 9:52

as far as you want.

Darlene Coyle 9:53

I think a lot of people who didn't really know what they wanted to do when I got out of high school I was never really into the sciences. I remember my grade 10 science teacher kind of squashed any interest I might've had in it. And so I wrote it. Any possibility of entering the environmental field as a result of that. But I did a bachelor's degree anyway. I did I majored in criminal justice and public policy from the university of wealth. And actually it wasn't until my third year that I discovered this program called environmental governance. And that's when it clicked in my head that you could use. Your knowledge of political science and policy to make a change and try to protect the environment. And Since I was in my third year I didn't really have the money to just start all over again. So I continued with my degree and I kind of shadowed some environmental governance courses. But that's kinda what led me to preserve, pursue a master's in environmental studies at the university of Waterloo. And that's where I discovered. The vital role of municipal government in shaping everyday decisions around like protecting our freshwater, designating greenspaces and protected areas and making sure that development doesn't negatively impact natural areas. Municipalities have so much responsibility. And I feel like not enough people understand how much of a direct impact that they have. A lot of people are pointing to the federal government to do things. If you look at the division of powers, they're not really that involved in our everyday lives, that's municipal government. And so there's so much going on there. But once I finished my. I think I finished it maybe in the first, second or third lockdown. I'm not really sure anymore. And after a long time of searching for work, I interviewed with watersheds Canada, and it was kind of a match made in heaven. Like we both kind of understand. How municipal bylaws and decision making can make or break significant natural features like lakes and wetlands. Things like the need for clear, transparent and forcible policies are needed to protect these features from impacts of development with. It's not to say that like I'm anti development or Watership Canada's and development. And I think environmental groups get a bad rap in that sense. It's not about being against development. It's about sustainable development. That is that's key. The point is to do so responsibly and to make informed decisions to protect environment. Can you environmental features while still enjoying it, developing our society. But to be done in a way that we can still enjoy things in the long term, not the short term.

Meredith Meeker 12:37

Very cool. And I think it's so important that, when people think inviting. People generally think, you know, the hard sciences or like biology. And I think it's really important that people understand if this is your passion, just bring your strengths to it. It doesn't have to be a science strength. So having a really strong understanding of policy and government structure, like those are huge assets and a lot of people go the science route. You have kind of a different alley if you're also looking more from the political side. And I know when I was first starting out in my career, I was so behind on the policy that it was really hard for me to catch up and wrap my mind around all of that. So if you're coming in with some sort of knowledge of at least how the system works, I feel like that's a really big advantage.

Darlene Coyle 13:34

Yeah. And I feel like there's a lot of emphasis on like stem programs, which, are super important. Like we need to learn it, understand what's going on, but the communication aspect and like the human aspect. I mean, we're the ones who are making the impacts were the ones who are draining wetlands. So we gotta be able to communicate back kind of thing. And so I th I do feel fortunate that I did take that path.

Meredith Meeker 13:57

Yeah, I think, yeah, science is really important, but it's only one piece. So I think we just need to be aware and welcoming to everybody else who's bringing their own skillset. And yeah, I think that's very cool that you have found your path and that it's really working out. So that's awesome. So I guess when you were. Finishing your masters, or maybe even going back to like your undergrad and you were in that transition period. Is there any like advice you wish you could go back and give yourself or somebody who's in that position now looking for a job, at the end fingers crossed of the pandemic? Yeah. Yeah, it

Darlene Coyle 14:40

is. It's when you're in that transition period it's confusing and it's rough because there's no. Set path of what to do. It's not like you, you get confused or a little bit lost and you just go do this and then send your problems are solved. You really got to find your own way. But when I was in that period of time I wished that I would have had someone to just be more encouraging in that sense, just because. And someone there to say don't let others discourage you, pursue those big ideas, just go for it. Even if it doesn't work out, like at least you tried it and now, and you can learn from it and try something else. But like trial and error is how you figure it out. People can tell you that from their experiences, this doesn't work. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Just try it out yourself. Maybe you can do it. And then they also come in the other side of, it would be like, it's, it sounds so lame and cliche, but collaboration is really the key to success. Like you may be able to do it on your own, but it's way easier and more enjoyable when you're surrounded by like minded people who have the same goals as you, and are willing to work together to pursue this common goal. There's nothing like it.

Meredith Meeker 15:56

Yeah. having a good group of people around you, but you probably are going to get encouragement that you need as well as building a network and yeah. Teamwork makes the dream work. I'm a firm believer in that. So it sounds like you're very passionate about what you're doing. You've landed in a good spot. So what is the best part of your job?

Darlene Coyle 16:22

I would say the best part of my job is talking to municipal counselors and planners who understand the problem and are interested in finding ways to protect their natural assets like fresh water. Once a municipality understands the problem, not as a political issue, but as a problem that you can see and measure. And. An issue that will continue to be exacerbated regardless of your political opinion, it becomes about what we can start to do to address those problems rather than you versus B kind of issue. Local decision-makers are at risk of getting blamed for a lot of cumulative damages. Traditional development practices have resulted in. And what we've discovered is that there are many municipalities and individuals who who have been negatively impacted by this problem of developing too close to the water. Like even you were mentioning earlier, like the high water. There were two in lake Ontario that has devastated several unprepared for properties. There's also issues of severe erosion and even toxic blue-green algae blooms are a problem. And so they working with these people to find ways to do something about it, but are limited in their capacity to do it It reinforces that we do have a purpose, like what our team of watersheds care that has something to offer to help support these municipalities and our help is being appreciated.

Meredith Meeker 18:01

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I feel like it's also like very satisfying when you change a traditional maybe adversarial. Relationship into a collaborative one, like where, you know, you have that us versus them and be like, no, we're on the same side and feeling like you have that breakthrough, you're like, wow, I'm making a difference. I feel like that's one way you can really feel like you're in the impact of your work.

Darlene Coyle 18:31

Exactly. If you talk to a waterfront property owner, you'll ask them what is your, what is the favorite? What is your favorite thing about your property? And they're going to be like, We all want to protect the water. We all love water. And so we have this common goal. So how do we achieve this? Then we have this common ground. So what are we going to do to help them

Meredith Meeker 18:52

amazing. Okay. So that's the best part. What we got to talk about the flip side, obviously. So what's the most challenging, or maybe even unexpected part of your

Darlene Coyle 19:02

job. I would say the most challenging part of my job is the complete opposite of what's great about my job. It can be challenging when an issue such as climate change or basic ecology gets challenged as a political issue. Especially during public consultation, some people will express discomfort over policies that mandate a certain amount of a shoreline be less than its natural state. Some people will describe it as a government's way at a landmark. Which kind of just goes back to this misconception that you have an absolute right to do whatever you want on your property. There is the collective good to be thinking about in these situations. The water is a common good which nobody owns, but it goes a long way to put yourself in their shoes. Not everyone has a scientific background. I don't, I had to research it, read scientific journals, government keepers to learn about it, which not everyone is going to do. And so I can tell you straight out that like the science of using plants to buffer a natural feature from development impacts goes back decades. If I even remember watching some bill Nye videos as a kid on these kinds of issues, so this stuff isn't new to the science of community, but it might be new to some people. So it's important to be understanding about it, to listen to what their concerns are and to try to teach them rather than just speaking at them or writing them off just outright.

Meredith Meeker 20:35

Yeah. You're in probably a lot of cases. You're fighting an uphill battle against like our cultural norms, right? Like we love that green grass all the way up to the lake shore. Of you know, I'm fortunate enough that I've spent a lot of time at a family cottage. If you were to tell somebody how to manage that shoreline, that has been on their cottage for like generations. Good luck to you like to be honest, right? Like people feel so passionate about these issues. So I'm sure it is great when you can convert them or work with them, but I'm sure it can be very frustrating. At the same time when you don't get that result,

Darlene Coyle 21:18

it can be. Yeah, for sure. And it's, it goes back exactly what you're saying. That's the traditional way of doing things where we're told well, we've got a lawn that's grass, that's plants, right. And then you got to teach them about, well, let's talk about root systems or something. Like it's introducing new ideas. The science is always developing. It's always changing. And you can see them from the pandemic, like science changes all the time and it can be difficult to keep up with. But when it comes to plants, we have a pretty solid understanding of how they work. And so even just going back to the basics can go a long way to get people to maybe not immediately change their action, but at least starting to think about it differently.

Meredith Meeker 22:02

Yeah. And there are some very pretty riparian flowers that like you might be able to use to help your case and be like, look at this beautiful. I took my I'll have awful names like milkweed. Like why do we call every native flower a weed? Anyway, that's my own personal hang up. We don't need to get into it on this episode. So

Darlene Coyle 22:25

the biggest thing for me is the biggest selling point with like natural native vegetation is you don't have to do anything. They're the most low maintenance things. You plant them, water them, like they'll do their own thing. You don't have to do so much upkeep. To me, that's that's

Meredith Meeker 22:40

beautiful. I know, I kind of hope that I feel like in the upcoming generation, if we can ever afford homes are not going to want to do the lawn maintenance. I just feel like everybody's working. That's just not gonna be something that our generation aspires to. So maybe native plants can help fill that void low. They look beautiful. I think anyway, who knows? We'll see one day, maybe one maybe. Yeah. So do you feel like there has been a particular skill set that has helped you break into the industry? Or do you think there's one that could help people who are coming up in the industry as well?

Darlene Coyle 23:25

Yeah, I think we kind of touched on it are ready, but I think specializing in environmental policy early on was a blessing for me. Like I have friends, I guess just some people that you might know too with scientific backgrounds who are trying to get into policy now. It's not easy. Policy is dense. It's not like reading a fiction novel. It's not necessarily fun. It's definitely a skill that you have to develop to read a piece of legislation. And I'm not saying that I think everyone should study policy. I think it's exactly what you said, Meredith. If I find something that you're interested in, that you're passionate about and find a way to use that interest to address a real world problem. Especially when it comes to sustainability, like the more diverse interests and backgrounds that come together to pursue a common goal, like the better off we're all going to be. I think. And I think being able to recognize that has helped me to I have friends in biology, finance, sociology, engineering, all with an environmental focus and every single one of them has a valuable part to play in the pursuit of sustainable development.

Meredith Meeker 24:35

Yeah. I think finance is going to be a very important piece to start bringing more and more into. Like the environmental, like seeing these people at conferences too. Right. I feel like there just needs to be a little bit more communication. Anyway, so that's, yeah, that's a great point. Find your strength and use it because it should be your own path. If you're really just trying to like mirror someone else's. Bringing everything you can to the table, because you're the only you, I know that sounds so cheesy, but I feel like it's very true and If you're a good at legislation, I find half the words like confusing. I'm like schedules. That's not a schedule is you know, this is what I do through my day. And it's no schedule a pertains to this section. Anyway, it's one of my, one of my hangups. I'm like, just call it what it is. Anyway. It's very confusing.

Darlene Coyle 25:28

And even just. I talked about this with my brother all the time. It's I remember there's this PSA from like the nineties. That's what's your thing. And like all the kids, do you like skateboarding? One, like sound effects when like bugs and like everything. And it's every one of us has a different interests and all of them would be valuable if we just pursued them more. I think a lot of people get discouraged about what their interests are early on. You have to be a lawyer, a doctor it's no, just find a way to make your interests work. And it'll probably be.

Meredith Meeker 26:05

You really took me back with the reference to that PSA. Like the sound effect the guy does a T-Rex I just remember that. So clearly, so anyway, thank you for that. I guess we kind of touched on this, but I feel like the other really hard part of, applying for jobs is applying for. how do you make your application stand out in a pile of sometimes hundreds that probably have similar, like if it's a entry-level position have similar experience to you. So do you have any advice for what you did maybe to make your application stand out? Just write it. Well,

Darlene Coyle 26:46

yeah, I mean, I think I struggle with this too. It's it took me a long time, like a continuous tweaking of my resume and applications to, and I don't even know if I've figured it out, but I have worked as a recruiter in the past. I have been involved in hiring processes before and looking at it from that side of things. I can honestly say that. Don't read applications top to bottom, like paragraphs are not your friend in these kinds of situations. Like I would say, make really good use of bullet points, bolds keywords, if it's helpful, think about your headings, make it as scannable and as intuitive as you can. People don't want to know what the details are in your application. That's what the interview is for. So really try to focus at a high level in your application. Like the point is to intrigue them, having a conversation with you. So don't feel like you have to mention everything right off the bat. It's harder than it sounds. It's very difficult to try to summarize and be so concise about all your experiences. I think it's trial and error, like you'll reflect on your past applications, really look at it and say, did I get my point across and just continue to tweak it until you get it?

Meredith Meeker 28:01

Yeah, I am. Currently in my master's program and having to write concisely is like something I am really struggling with being like, can I say this? Keep the meaning, but with fewer. Like I it's a real skill. So I feel like that was one that would translate really well to a job application. Because if you are in a pile of hundreds people, aren't spending more than, I think I'm being generous. If I say five minutes, like probably two to three minutes, realistically. Which is awful when you think of it from. Applicant's perspective cause they probably spent hours on it. But that's just the reality

Darlene Coyle 28:44

and it's difficult. You spent two or three years doing something and you're supposed to summarize it in like a sentence or two it's hard. It's really hard, especially if it's close to your heart.

Meredith Meeker 28:54

Yeah. And from what I understand, people who are environment. They're not in it for the money. So it's usually an issue close to their heart. Yeah, it's tough. Well, I feel like that's a lot of really great like career stuff that we've covered. So kind of want to switch directions and I want to hear about a favorite nature moment. We call it nature because nature is so neat. So it can either be while you were out or while you were at work exploring on your own. I'd just love to hear an example.

Darlene Coyle 29:24

I think a lot of a lot of my stuff has to do with the human side of environmental issues. I have to go back to when I was doing my master's thesis. I was getting a tour of this area of concern in agriculture and seeing the area and hearing from the local community about why they were so interested in protecting it from the proposed development was. Hugely empowering to me, there's such little green space left in urban areas. And I know why they're important to me, but hearing that they also found it so important to protect it and that they were willing to raise their voices and challenge municipal council about unsustainable development practices. Hugely gratifying and inspiring. And I spoke with some of them who actually camped out on the property for a week in protest of the development and hearing their stories about the frog singing at night and all the wildlife that would come about when you just sit stare illness on this piece of land for awhile was magical. Like I wished I was there to hear it, but hearing about other people's experiences and why they can connect with With major is beautiful. Like I was talking with one of the, one of the activists and he was saying like, yeah, like I don't need to go to the north pole to see the polar bears. Like I just like knowing that they exist, like that's what drives me. And I'm like, great, that's perfect. We all have these passions, like what keeps us going? And I just love hearing about other people.

Meredith Meeker 30:55

That's really cool. Yeah. We haven't really heard any true moment from that side. So I do really love that. And I feel like that's kind of the power of nature, right? If you get to experience it on your own and then you get to share it with others, like it's infectious in a good way. It sounds like you have, a lot of motivation to make a difference. In this field, but environmental burnout is a real thing in this industry. So is there something that you try to keep in mind to keep yourself inspired to keep doing this work?

Darlene Coyle 31:31

Yeah, I mean, again, it sounds, I don't know why it sounds like to me, but it's so true. My network is what keeps me inspired. Exactly what you say, like being in the environmental field is. Especially being in a nonprofit environmental sector, which is one of the most underfunded areas. But I work with such smart and passionate people, like not only at watersheds Canada, but also at the Canadian youth biodiversity network. So I know that if I'm getting trained or burnt out, as we all do that, I have people to draw upon. It just like people's passionate people passionate about the environment is so infectious. So if you are just finding yourself getting burnt out or something, I'll like I'll schedule a meeting or something with some people in my network, just the chat and having hearing other people's passions and drive is an instant recharge. Like it's just, it's so infectious.

Meredith Meeker 32:24

That's awesome. And yeah, it's really comes back to, collaborate collaboration and just making sure that you're surrounding yourself with people that have common goals and it can really make a huge difference for sure. Do you want to touch on a little bit about the Canadian youth biodiversity network and what they do? Cause we didn't really touch on

Darlene Coyle 32:44

that at all. It's it's more of a, part-time like a volunteer kind of thing that, that I'll do it's. So we work with other Canadian youth, we to basically promote collaboration and empowerment of youth for environmental issues. So like we've held youth called locations to support the the post 2020 bio-diversity framework. Let me send that to to ministers at the federal provincial level. We'll do workshops, we'll do social media posts and stuff like that. For me, it's an outlet because I'm reading so much all the time. And my friends have started to get a little tired of my constant, the lectures. So I put it on social media and said and so having that group of people who are like-minded like me, and also just need this kind of outlet to, to share these issues, not necessarily in a preachy kind of way, but also just like sometimes when you're scrolling through social media, you just need that occasional, like uplift or just a little tidbit here and there to start to keep these issues at the forefront. Cause they aren't important than I think a lot of people care about the environment, but they don't have the time to necessarily research them. So I mean, we're doing it anyway, so we might as well share it.

Meredith Meeker 33:57

Yeah, I love that. So I guess last question then if someone wanted to get involved, either with watersheds, Canada, learn more about what you're doing there or with the Canadian youth biodiversity network, where should they go? What should they check out?

Darlene Coyle 34:12

I think there's a lot of ways that they can check things out. If they want to learn more about watersheds Canada, I would say visit our website, watersheds.ca. We also have social media, I think on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, all the main ones. If someone wants to check out the planning for our shore lands project, the policy program that I'm leading we don't have our toolkit out just yet. We are still finalizing some of the sections, but. I think you've realized by now I love talking about policy. So any questions that anyone might have, or if anyone just wants to have a chat, I would say, just shoot me an email. You can, you know me@shortlandprojectatwatersheds.ca and we can set up a time to chat and we'll just take it from there. If they want to connect with the. With the Canadian youth biodiversity network. I think it is, we have social media. We also have a website. If you just type in Canadian youth biodiversity network. Then they can do that. But also we have Instagram, which is given Canada. So G Y B M Canada. Just because the Canadian youth biodiversity network is a Canadian chapter to a global youth biodiversity network. So just to differentiate the two, there is the global chapter, but there's also the Canadian chapter as well.

Meredith Meeker 35:27

Yes. I hear Gibbon and seven all the time and I'm like, wait, which one? Yes. Both very important that works. And sounds like there's a lot of ways to get involved, so people should definitely check those out. Well, that's all, my questions for you today, but thank you so much for sitting down with me. I really enjoyed this conversation and I think, the people listening. A huge, thank you to Darlene for sharing her energy and passion with us. And of course, if you want to hear more stories like Darlene's, don't forget to like, and subscribe to our podcast. So you don't miss an episode and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to find out more about job opportunities and cool events like our AGM on March 31st, where we're also hosting three different panelists to talk about ecosystem restoration. That's happening here in Ontario. You can check out our Facebook page to grab tickets, or you can even nominate yourself to be on the ELB board. Okay. That's all for me until next week. Happy trails.