Scales Nature Park | Reptiles And Amphibians | Ontario
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Scales Nature Park | Reptiles And Amphibians | Ontario
Check out our website!
Home (el4biodiversity.ca)
Follow us on social media @el4biodiversity for more updates and events!
Hi everyone. Welcome to Emerging Leaders for Biodiversity. How do I do this in Environmental Career podcast? I'm Alex Laier.
Kandyce:And I'm Candace affleck join us as we explore the wild world of environmental careers.
Alex:Hear from top professionals and industry up and comers about their journeys and how they're making an impact in the world of biodiversity.
Kandyce:So sit back or go for a hike and enjoy. Today's guest on the podcast is a mutual connection for both Alex and I. Steve marks is a very knowledgeable herpetologist who has been involved in field work with all of Ontario species at risk reptiles and amphibians throughout his career. Steve has been a passionate educator and mentor for many, and we are very excited to chat with him today. So let's jump right in. Hi, Steve. We're so excited to have you on the podcast today. Could you start off by introducing us with your name and your pronouns please?
Steve:I'm Steve Marks or Steve the snake guy. He, him.
Kandyce:Awesome. Now let's get into a little bit about what you do.
Steve:Well, I, like I said, I introduce myself as Steve, the snake guy. I've been researching amphibians and reptiles since about 19 85, 86. Professionally, though I didn't do it until 2009 really. Yeah. Back in the day, there was, there was no jobs doing this. Yeah, everything was volunteer. I have a 30 year spotted turtle survey that is, all volunteer. Wow.
Alex:Yeah. I can't imagine doing that now. That's awesome.
Steve:Oh, there was one year my, my former wife and I tallied up what I spent to do that project that year, and it was like like$4,000 outta my own pocket. Oh. To do conservation work? Funny enough for Provincial Park. There was no real budget to do anything. I mean, we're talking the late eighties and early nineties. There was nothing set up yet. I have a photograph of the first Turtle recovery team meeting. There's less than 30 people in the shot, and Jeff Hathaway and myself are both there and Scott Gilling water's there. Oh, and Teresa is, there we're the, the four younger people I can think of the day. Everybody else was working more or less professionally, but that's it. That was it for the whole province, like 30 people.
Kandyce:Wow.
Steve:Yeah. Now there's hundreds of people employed in conservation, but we didn't have that. Most of my career was, was volunteer until I worked in the field the first time. In 2006, I actually worked for the Ministry of Natural Resources in Ontario doing some forestry work looking for an invasive species of wood wasp from Europe and it was a, it was a really cool project and it, and it opened my eyes and, and it was a really rewarding experience. I got to travel all over Ontario. I had trap sites for these insects in every single county in Ontario. So my study area was everything south of Timmons and and it was a lot of fun driving around the province for two years catching insects it was great, but it wasn't reptile conservation So I did that on the weekends.
Kandyce:That was one of my questions that I wanted to ask you. Did you always know that you would be focused on herb tiles?
Steve:From about 16 years of age on, I knew I was gonna do that. But when I was 12 years old, I begged my grandmother to kill a snake in our backyard.
Kandyce:Oh my goodness.
Steve:I was terrified.
Kandyce:Right.
Steve:I worked hard to get over every fear I've ever had in my life. And I think that was the first one I ever did. And I'm really glad I did because as soon as I found out that snakes aren't what people think they. I'm like, wow, this is like the biggest underdog I've ever seen. These guys need, these guys need somebody to fight for'em. So I learned more about'em first, and then I got a couple of pet snakes and I went to my sister's high school and I taught her high school class all about snakes. And the teacher said, you're a natural at this. And I said, well, these guys really need help. And she goes, well, I get it, but you should be doing this for a. and it took a while, but I did do it somewhat for a living for a little while, just doing education programs. I got involved with other organizations doing other educational programs, and I kept reptiles and amphibians for a grand total of about 34 years. I don't keep any now, although I do help out from time to. Where I am now is at Scales Nature Park and it's, it's a wonderful place to be. Not that I'm entirely active in any one Department of Scales Nature Park, I'm really not. But it's nice that I'm able to help out when help is required.
Alex:Can you tell us a little bit more about your career journey, Steve? It sounds like you started with teaching before you moved over the conservation side of things and sounds like some of the very early days of outreach.
Kandyce:It sounds like you've been all over the province. I know when I first met you, it was down in Windsor. And now you're at scales.
Alex:I was gonna say, I met you two years ago now.
Steve:That's right. And this is the second time in my life I've lived at Scales. I lived at Scales from 2007 until 2011. And I was actually living at Scales when I started working in Windsor. I had to commute every week.
Kandyce:Oh wow. Really?
Steve:Yeah, it was a short contract when I started the job, and it was only ever gonna be a short contract, and there was no real way for me to, not look after my animals here at scales. I had, a collection of reptiles to look after. There was no way I was taking those to Windsor to look after in a temporary situation, so I had to come back every weekend and have people help me with my charges during that time. But yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun commuting back and forth to Windsor at 3:00 AM every Monday. I did that for two years and then, and then I moved to Windsor when it became a permanent job, and that was with a different company, and that was for the long term project in Windsor. Turned out to be the beginning of the 4 0 1 the new Highway 4 0 1 extension to. A new international crossing, which is being built as we speak. And it, it was going to impact Ojibwe, which is one of the most special natural areas in Canada. So I got asked to go and help out just for three months with the Fox snake project. Can, can you come down and help us find some fox snakes? And I'm like, yeah, no problem. I'm not doing I'm not doing anything. That'll be great. And so I went down there for a three month contract and I stayed for 12.
Alex:Oh wow.
Kandyce:And what a cool project that was. I was removing invasive species in the wintertime there, and I remember you were the one that gave us the onsite training for species at risk. And you were so passionate and I was so excited to do my job.
Steve:The training was fantastic. I'm glad to hear your perspective. I really am I got to train 9,200 people. So you were in the 9,100 or 9,200 s. But yeah, that was a lot of teaching every week and sometimes several times a week. I wasn't in the field. I was in a classroom for an hour and a half teaching people about how to be careful around our environment while we have the construction site. And we gave similar training to you guys before you did your project. So it's really nice to hear the that perspective. Thank you. After all this time,
Kandyce:No, it was awesome. I can't imagine the construction guys that are just in there to move some machinery and they're getting all of this information about these stakes and maybe opening their eyes to the passion. It was really great being someone that's already passionate about it, it made a huge impact on me. So I can't imagine the impact it would've made on,
Steve:oh, It was f it was fantastic. It really was. I had people come up to me years later. They weren't associated with the project anymore. One guy phoned. The hotline as it were, which was my cell phone. Okay. I phoned the hotline and it woke me up in the middle of the night and he hadn't been associated with the project in, in two years or something. And, he'd, encountered a snake and this was the middle of the night and he, he didn't want the snake to get hurt. And, unless someone that could handle a snake came, the snake was probably gonna die. And I'm like, well, where are you? And so he told me he's right next to the Ambassador Bridge on the Detroit River in Windsor. I'm like, well, what the hell kind of snake is there, So I went and in at one o'clock in the morning, and it was a big, huge fox snake sitting on the top of a gravel pile gravel that was gonna be loaded onto a barge and get shipped down river. So, They were gonna kill this snake unless I climbed up this huge pile of gravel and caught this five foot fox snake. And I let him go. I let him go in the river right next door and he sw away. It was fantastic.
Kandyce:Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I think you made a huge impact on all of those people that went through that training and that's amazing.
Steve:it really did show a lot of times we had construction workers well up with tears and cry when they had an accident happen on site and and a fox snake was mortally injured. So as I start to tear up a bunch of the construction workers started to cry too. And that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the training that happened. Yeah. And that training went into the community so deeply that Ojibwe Nature Center's international Snake Day celebrations started to get bigger and bigger and bigger every year. They got, to the point where it was a two day event.
Kandyce:That's amazing.
Steve:Yeah. That was really cool project and a really amazing way to, to get education that's so badly needed. Into normal people's houses because it wasn't just the workers I was talking to, they got a booklet full of information to take home and I told them, give it to your kids. And they did, we had kids come to Snake Day and they told us, so we know that this happened just cause a construction project decided to do well. They didn't decide it was, it was put upon them. By the new Endangered Species Act at the time. That you need to do this and, and luckily I got suggested to to do the education and yeah, I'm a little bit passionate. I've been accused of that
Alex:it sounds like you really love the teaching aspect so far of your career. Would you consider that the best aspect of your career? Or what, what is your favorite part?
Steve:Whenever anybody asks me what's the most important thing in conservation research or conservation work, my answer is quite simply relationships. So if I wanna be known for anything, it's bringing people together in regards to this project. That I worked on for 12 years. I had 25 or 30 of the most wonderful people that I knew even a little bit drawn in as employees to work this project. We had a team of 30 or so biologists, some of them fresh outta high school. come and, and work for us and, and did amazing work saving all those animals from destruction in a construction site. It's the relationships that you build. And they have to be genuine relationships. They can't be forced, you know artificial relationships. And that's why I guess my passion comes out. when you build real relationships with people and the passion is really there, people get motivated to do something and that's, I think that's what I, I think is most important in this line of work is building relationships with more and more people so that we can, oh yeah, the perfect person for this is that person. I remember them and you pull them in and of. because you've built these relationships. Everybody's familiar already, and, they start to work really well together.
Kandyce:That is a really good point. And I feel like with the environmental field, it's so small. It's such a tight-knit community. I'm sure it's definitely grown since you started. But
Steve:yeah. So, but everybody's connected in one way or.
Alex:A hundred percent. I was gonna say, I feel like everyone knows everyone. I'm on one project and a name will come up. And you're like, how do you know so-and-so?
Steve:Exactly like you two I know independently of each other. And yet the three of us know each other. I mean, that's, that is what this passion, it's passion that brings everybody to the table. This passion that's inside you to save turtles or, or plants or trees or fish or what, whatever you're into. We've done so much damage. We know we need help. And it's that passion that brings you to the table and then you find other people that share the same passion that energy's gotta go somewhere.
Kandyce:Most definitely. Speaking of passion, do you remember what first sparked your passion in environmental things?
Steve:Yeah. I've spoken of this many times. Actually. There's two points in my life. And I'll, I'll be quick. I was 13 and bored and I was, I had very little interest. I have a, congenital spinal deformity and my one interest because of that was, was no longer a possibility. And so I was bored and, restless and my dad gave me a, a 35 millimeter camera. He says, here, learn how to use. And so I did, except I got quickly bored with nothing to take pictures of. And he said, why don't you go down to the conservation area? There's probably, you know, lots of nature you can take pictures of. And I did. And I just coincided with turtle nesting season. I found a turtle digging a hole. And so I don't have those pictures anymore. I wish I did. Later I found that turtle being harassed by some kids. I chased the kids off successfully. And then fast forward to when I was 12, I, asked my grandmother to kill snake and, and she did. It was a snake in Orangeville, Ontario. And, I was, relieved that she did that for me and. Horrified by this ugly beast. And it was a high school teacher, a math teacher that he was gonna bring a pet boa instructor like he did every year into the school. just to show it off to, and, and expose kids to, a wonderful animal. And I said, well, I'm glad you can't do it this year. He'd been instructed that he couldn't. I said, I'm glad you couldn't cuz there's no bloody way. I'd come to school. I used some expletives that I'm being very careful not to use And he says, well, why is that? And I said, well, they're gross and there's no way I would even be in the building. And so he brought me the next day, instead of bringing me a snake, he, brought me in a book and I still have a copy of that book. And it opened my eyes. He said, They're not what you think they are. And I said, okay, well then what are they? And so I read the book and then I had, to go see one, so I went to the Toronto Zoo and I sat in front of the Reticulate Python cage. in awe of how it just sat there and didn't do anything and seemed to be okay with that And I'm like, I gotta know more. And I went to a pet shop and a friend of mine he owned a pet shop in New Market and he held ball Python. For me so that I could reach out, trembling and touch it, because I knew if I could touch it, I could get over this fear. And of course it melted because that is how I got people over their fear for years afterwards doing presentations with snakes. That's when I got the passion of, oh my God, these are like the underdogs. they really need help. The people are killing me. I did it. My, I asked my grandma to do it. And so tho that was the turning point. from that point on, I just went whole hog and, and taught my sister's high school class. And then and it never stopped. in 1994, I met Jeff and Jenny. They were doing sci sensational snakes, which of course Jenny is still doing and, started to educate on a big level with them. We went across the province doing two or three different campaigns in schools and, in events like county fairs and things like that. We'd educate wherever we could. And so I've had the pleasure of putting a snake in the hands of hundreds of thousands of people, mostly. anybody to get up the guts to actually do it a lot of people wanted to do it already, of course, but it's a thumping majority that don't. And in, a live presentation like that, you get to win so many people and open their eyes to nature. Cause anything, to open the public's eyes. How awesome nature is before it's all gone so that we have more drive to try to save some more of it. Because we're losing it too quickly and we need that passion to be spread out.
Alex:I do feel like it is growing to kind of the public consciousness of what's going on and environmental degradation and all those kinds of things, people do seem to be more aware recently than before.
Steve:Yeah, I mean the, definitely the awareness of climate seems to be taken more genuinely than even just a couple of years ago. I remember in as recently as 2018, I'd be in Florida looking for reptiles with a friend of mine. And we'd stop at some restaurant and the waitress would say, oh, you're from Canada. How do you, how do you like your climate change now? Because cuz it's cold in Florida this year. And I'm like, yeah, cuz of climate change. like they, people didn't understand and they couldn't get their heads around what's happening on a local level versus what's happening on a global level. But just a little bit of time has passed and more people are able to grasp what's going on. So there's less denial. Now I hope.
Kandyce:Yeah, I think it's definitely working in that direction and hopefully continues in that direction. Mm-hmm.
Steve:Yeah. The quicker, the better.
Kandyce:You focus most of your career on reptiles and amphibians. I was just wondering if there's any reason you haven't. Really jumped into the fluffy adorable, cute animals that the majority. Kind of think of when they're thinking of saving nature.
Steve:So, no, I love cats. It's a double-edged sword. Cuz I also hate cats. So that's the problem, right? I mean, I've had cats in my life, in my home for 22 years at a time and right. And I've removed cats any way I can from natural areas. In my radio telemetry project with fox snakes, I radio tracked 112 snakes. They're all adults I only took eight radios out at the end of the project, so I watched in 12 years, I watched a hundred or so fox snakes meet their end. Cats took all of the biggest ones. The biggest ones are smart enough. They're old enough to not go near roads, but they don't have a defense against cats. yeah, so I love the furry animals, but once I found out, like I said about just how bad they got it, snakes just got the bum wrap right from the get go, it seems. And since 12 guys wrote a book and that's the deal. It's like, that's not fair. And so that's where, my passion for, for reptiles began. I. Aimlessly for a while, and I went to Fleming College. It was about eight or nine years between that time where the interest was really sparked. And the time I found a school I could go to was about eight years So I'm 26 years old starting Fleming College. And getting into environmental work. It was a connection through that school that started the Spotted Turtle Project, which I remind you was a volunteer project, but it was for the conservation interest anyway of spot turtles in a provincial park and surrounding area. And that project is still going it. In conjunction so much with the park anymore. But, the surrounding area it's, private landowners actually protecting the habitat and it's a, it's still a wonderful project that has produced two master students so far. It's been fantastic. So looking after, Knowing that spotted turtles having populations decline I actually witnessed a population go from about 500 plus turtles to two. And that happened basically in 20 years. We don't want that happening anymore. So we need to find out more about these animals. That's why I got involved with radio tracking spotted turtles to find out more about them. Where do they go? How do we fix, how do we protect their habitat, and things like that. Now we know more about spotted turtles since that project started, 1993, so this year it'll be 30 years.
Alex:Wow. That's great. That's a long run project.
Steve:Yeah, there's a lot of data and actually there's a lot of data from my 12 year Fox Snake project and, which was also butler's snakes as well, I have failed to mention. So the data from that project you gotta keep those relationships going. I made sure that, that, that draw data could be used by other people. And one of those people that I had met Morgan Skinner now he's a PhD candidate using our butler's garter snake data from our cover board surveys. He's studying the relationships that individual snakes have with each. and social relationships and social structure. And he is able to do that with the massive dataset that we have of butler's, gar snakes, and individual meadows and prairies. So yeah, it's amazing that, that wouldn't have happened except for relationships, right? Like he, was aware that I'd studied the butler's garden sink. That relationship allowed the flow of information, if it hadn't have been for building relationships, he wouldn't have known that. That data even existed to know to ask me for it, because at the time the company I worked for was just gonna put it in a drawer and put it away. They didn't think anybody was interested.
Kandyce:Wow. Yeah. Data sharing is definitely very important.
Steve:Absolutely.
Alex:From the sounds of it, working with reptiles it's prevalent in our field. You felt the seasonal side of things of environmental work. Do you have any advice for people that are jumping between contracts and kind of how to stay engaged or not go crazy when you go from your passion to just a job in between.
Steve:Do I have any advice? Oh, wow. So the best things in life are warm and sunny. As a reptile lover, I, have become unfortu. Very anti winter. everything I've, worked towards is, not found in Ontario, in, these cold months except for mud puppies. So at least a couple times a year, I go look for mud puppies in the winter. And, then I spend as much time as I can in warmer places in the wintertime. I don't know about advice. For me, the reason I brought that travel up is because seasonal depression disorder. Because environmental work seems to be spring, summer, fall for the most part anyway, especially with Herps. You do get a sense of you're gonna overwinter in darkness with these reptiles and it can be dark and depressing. I like to get a suntan. I like to maintain my tan. I like to keep it brown all the time if I can, and that keeps me happier. People have liked me to a turtle more than once. I do like the basking sun. So my advice would be enable yourself to keep putting happy things in front of you because when you can't do what you love every day, you need to make yourself happy some other way. I found in my life that when I'm doing what I love, if the pay sucks, it ain't that bad. If the pay is coming outta my. It wasn't that bad. I was doing what I loved and if you're doing what you loved, everything else can just get folded the wayside. It really doesn't matter. you just do what you wanna do. And if you're successful enough to find a place where you can do something that you love and help the environment in a real. and feel good about your life, then those times in winter or off season, they're a lot easier. You, you just gotta stick stuff in front of you to keep yourself happy. So maintain other interests, I guess would be another I don't have many other interests. I am pretty much a herps and herper kind of person. I love reptiles and amphibians and the people who love reptiles and amphibians and and I like to hang out with them as much as I can.
Kandyce:And now it totally makes sense that you're hanging out at Scales Nature Park right now, bud
Steve:Oh, yeah. Yeah I don't get around much these days. I have trouble walking and. I deal with some chronic pain issues that I won't go into, but I can't speak highly enough of the people that make up scales. Nature Park. Jeff and Jenny have been two of my best friends since 94, and they built this place. I helped them build it and a lot of my friends did too. And this place has always been a place of love. and passionate about herbs and nothing but really, so I'm very fortunate to be here. I can't speak highly enough of the place. It's doing more real landscape based conservation work than just about anybody and fantastic biologists come through here and get enlightened in so many. I can't speak highly enough of Jeff Hathaway and Scales Nature Park. I love it.
Alex:I had an absolute blast working there and learned a lot. All right. I'm gonna throw another Stuper your way. If you could go back in time, hop in time machine and go back, what advice would you give yourself?
Steve:Stay in school. See, at the time, like I said, there was no, I could, I, it took me forever to find Fleming College. There was no real environmental schools except for Fleming College at the time. Now we have so many colleges and universities offering so many programs to do with environment, so many different facets of environmental work. And so, yeah. Some of my favorite people that are involved in conservation biology are they stayed in school until their late thirties. That enabled them to do. while they're Stu, they're doing PhD research and getting paid to do it, and that's an awesome life. You get to learn, do what you love, and get paid and get a degree. There's ways to do that. Yes, there are. So go do that. That's my advice. stay in school and figure out a way to get a PhD doing something you love I wish I had
Kandyce:on that same topic. Do you think that a master's is important in an environmental career?
Steve:See, I can't say yes or no I think that everybody has to choose their own path. Yeah. If you're developing the best you, you can, do you need a master's degree to do what you wanna do? What I wanted to do didn't require a degree. I've never gotten a university. In fact, the only university course I've ever taken, I didn't finish, and it was just last year. But I've never taken university course and yet I'm regarded as successful wildlife biologist. So yes and no. If doing what you love and getting a PhD in it is something that you wanna do, then aim for that. But if that's not what you want to do, everybody's different. Figure out how to form the best you, you want to. I don't know how to do that cuz there's eight, there's 8 billion of us
Kandyce:Yeah. I think the environmental sector is definitely a little bit unique in that situation. It's not like everybody takes the same program, goes and gets their masters, does their PhD and they're good to go. There's so many different paths and it all depends on your passion and what direction you want to take it.
Steve:Exactly. And to just cap. Off. I'll say that I'm very much aware of jobs that listed a master's degree as necessary that were given to people that did not have a master's degree. So it might help, it might not, it's not about getting a check box of things to do. It's not like going to dental school and then becoming a dentist and opening a practice That's not what we do. Yeah, it's, it's more about learning as much about what you're passionate about as you, as you want to or can, and then doing something with that. So if that includes a master's degree in your, in your path, then then fine. But it might.
Kandyce:So true, so true.
Alex:Sometimes I do kind of wish it was a little more clean cut, like the dentist do X, do Y, do Z. You're set
Steve:right? Wouldn't that be nice? Right. It's not, that way at all and there's so many different facets of this career path. Like conservation authorities work differently. The government works differently. All of the NGOs work differently. Everybody's set up not the same, and everybody's got different preferences and, and everybody's different. So there's just no way to answer that. you don't need a master's degree, but you might want one, I guess is the best answer.
Alex:I think I might already know the answer to this one. What's the favorite species you've worked with?
Steve:So worked with and and worked professionally with are two different things. So I've been asked what's my favorite species of snake and my favorite species of snake I have worked with. Only on a voluntary basis. I've seen timber rattlesnakes in surveys in the us both vocationally and on a project. I'm very fortunate to have seen those beautiful animals, they're my favorite snake. My favorite snake that I've worked with is the fox snake. It's my number two favorite snake. If it wasn't for the magical experiences I've had in the field with them, like finding a mama with six babies I'm not sure that it would've overcome the Fox snake. Fox snakes are absolutely wonderful animals. They are gentle and deliberate and I fell in love with them as I radio tracked them. I saw into their individual lives every day for years and I've just finished a kid's book, A little story where I've immortalized buddy, a fox snake in a kid's story book that I'm gonna publish, I hope, through scales or some other way. I just finished it, so hopefully that'll be, in the hearts of kids, hopefully turn in some more kids around, into snake lovers.
Kandyce:Oh my goodness, that's gonna be amazing. I love the story of.
Steve:We'll see
Alex:That's great. When might that be published?
Steve:I have no idea. I'm, stumbling through the processes now, so, we'll see how it goes.
Kandyce:Well definitely keep us in the loop, if you remember. Send it our way, Alright. Do you happen to have a favorite field?
Steve:So my favorite field day of all, I was not working I got off work. I'll never forget it. I got off work. I went over to my buddy's house. I picked him up and we went up to the Perry sound area specifically to look for hog, no snakes. And the only reason we did that is because, I had found 72 road killed hog, no snakes, and hadn't found a live one yet. We found a hog. No snake. We found a live hog, no snake. Absolutely huge female underneath. A metal wheel of a truck that was sitting on an asphalt parking lot of an old gas station. that was being torn down because the 400 was coming through and so that gas station was being torn down and this old wheel in the middle of a parking lot, we lifted up not expecting to find anything alive under it cuz it was hot and there was a massive hog nose under it. That was the most memorable day I think I've ever had in the field. That was a long time ago.
Alex:That's a lucky fine too. That's.
Steve:Oh yeah. I was lucky for her too. I don't think she would've survived the rest of the afternoon under that metal. It was too hot.
Alex:Different one going off that what's the strangest, wildest thing you've ever found in the field?
Steve:Most of the really crazy stuff I found was in my Windsor project. I found a severed limb, a human severed leg in the middle of a highway. Turned out, it was made of plastic. Someone had just discarded this, this plastic severed limb. onto the median in a divided highway. I remember finding that. But I think the strangest thing I ever found in the field was a white-tailed deer that was probably just scratching the shed off of its antlers and got stuck in the fork of a tree and hung there until it. That was probably the weirdest thing I've ever seen. This deer clearly got itself stuck and and died that way.
Kandyce:Wow. That is very weird.
Steve:Yeah, that, that was while I was doing snake surveys. Oh, I'll never forget that.
Alex:Yeah, that would definitely make me kind of pause and like, oh,
Steve:Yeah, it was weird. One day I found a, a knob long wing kid did. But instead of the bright green color, it was bright pink. That was cool.
Alex:That would be a cool one,
Steve:In 2019, I took some biologists, friends of mine from one of the from one of the best consulting companies in Canada, and I took them down to to Georgia. And we went out with the Orient Society and. And we we got to see eastern Diamondbacks and indigo snakes and and we got to catch a couple of indigo snakes and process them. And I got to put a microchip in an indigo snake. That was pretty spectacular. That is pretty cool. Yeah, that was pretty. And here at Scales, I've enjoyed taking young biologists out to get their lifers. Yeah, I'm just watching my screensaver pass on my computer in front of me and it's got a lot of favorite picture memories like you put in your screensavers and one just came up where I drove a couple of biologists here. Scales, Alessandra and Kurt. We went out to Eastern Ontario to see if we could find their life or black rat snake, and we went with Canada's best rat snake biologist. We met up with Sean Thompson, who's a friend and we had a wonderful day together. It really is all about relationships.
That's great being there to witness them seeing their first life or just that's got to put a little something in your heart. I saw a couple of my lifers this year. And it was so rewarding. The day's always brighter when you see something that you've been wanting to see for a long time
Steve:Right on. I got several lifers reptile wise and amphibian wise down in Louis, in Missouri and Illinois this year. In particular in, the northwest corner of Illinois. I got to see Chicago garter snakes. Oh, wow. And and I got my lifer bull snake. That was an amazing day.
Alex:To go back to the career side of things if someone wanted to get involved with scales or learn more about what you do or how they can get involved, where should they go?
Steve:Well, scales, nature Park is available on every single platform on the internet scales. Nature Park gmail.com is the direct email address for the park, so that's easy. Anybody can inquire about any. Of either conservation work or reptile amphibian research conservation in particular. Plus of course, here at Scales there's a huge exhibit of Canada's amphibians and reptiles. So if you'd like more experience keeping some of those wonderful animals it's a really cool place to hang out to. There are courses throughout the year. There are field trips throughout the year. There's all kinds of different things to plug into at scale, and different opportunities. I can't speak highly enough of the place I really can't.
Kandyce:Awesome. Well, thank you for the plug.
Steve:I'm sitting quietly by myself for the most part today. So it was a really good day to schedule this Turns out this will be the highlight of my day and I'm very glad to have had it with you guys. I have fond memories of both of you, so I hope to see you again.
Kandyce:Yeah, for sure. It was awesome chatting with you and I hope the sunshine's still out for you to go bask a little bit today.
Steve:It's actually brighter now than when we started the interview. Oh, perfect. There
Alex:we go. And I'm sure we'll both run into you again in the near future.
Kandyce:Well thank you very much. We'll let you get off to your sunshine
Steve:You guys have a great day.
Kandyce:Thank you so much for tuning into Emerging Leaders for Biodiversity. How do I do this? An environmental queer podcast.
Alex:Be sure to follow us on social media and our website using the handle EL number four, biodiversity to get the latest news on upcoming events and other exciting opportunities.
Kandyce:We can't wait for you to tune in to our next episode