S05 E03 Bailey Consulting

https://www.linkedin.com/company/bailey-environmental-consulting-inc./

Bailey Environmental Consulting Inc.

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Alex 0:00

Hello, everyone. And welcome to episode, not one, not two, but three of how do I do this? And environmental career podcast, season five. I'm alex to share with my co-host Candace affleck and today we're interviewing michelle and colin bailey michelle's a marine biologist by trade and colin is environmental consultant and the two of them together and founded their own environmental consulting company called bailey environmental consulting hi. You guys are both based in North Vancouver, right? That's right, yeah. Yep. Great. All right. We'll start off with your names, pronouns, and tell us a little bit about yourselves.

Michelle 0:38

Sure. I'll go first. My name's Michelle Bailey. She, her is my pronouns. And I'm currently one of the owners of Bailey Environmental Consulting and a mom. And I started off, In an academic career through university and completed my masters and somehow fell into environmental consulting, which I guess we'll talk a little bit more about.

Colin 1:02

Hi, I'm Colin Bailey. He I let's see where I can start. My environmental career started by, A career that didn't work out for me in aircraft maintenance. I was working in a facility that was newly built and the, the air wasn't being cleared out as fast as it could have been. And there were a few of us at the facility that were told that we needed to find a new career because we'd taken in too many iso cide. So I spent this summer tree planting and just going outdoors, and I really liked the, you know, the outdoorsy side of that. And I found through a recommendation of a friend of mine, of course, at B C I T called Fish and Wildlife Management. And so I registered for that, I applied for that and got in the following year and took that 2003, 2005 and went from there. So that was really what got me going initially on the environmental side.

Kandyce 1:55

That's awesome. It sounds like you guys all have diverse backgrounds in the environmental field and crazy to have started in aircraft.

Colin 2:04

Yeah, it was an interesting career and you know, I trust the process that I was meant to come and do something different at the time it was really disappointing financially. You know, when you, you invest the time in a career and you know when things don't go exactly how you plan. There's a bit of a, like a negative feeling associated with that too. But I managed to get past it and just pushed through. And by the time I got in the class at B C I T had met the group of people that I was going to spend in the next two years with, it became really clear to me that I had made the right decision to choose that particular.

Kandyce 2:35

That's awesome. I'm glad that it was clear. I guess clear in hindsight, eh,

Colin 2:40

Yeah. I mean, you, you know, everything you do is a bit of a risk too, especially when you're investing time and money like that. But I was willing to take that risk. It just felt, it felt like the right thing to do as well too. There wasn't, I didn't have this nagging feeling inside of me telling me that I was making a mistake or the risks were too high. I was okay with that and it might have been a function of just having so much time available in my future as I was still fairly young at the time. But, you know, I just didn't feel like it was anything I really had to worry about.

Kandyce 3:05

Awesome. Can you guys tell us a little bit more about your journey and how you got to where you are now? How did you guys decide to start your business? How did you guys meet? How, how did the idea come out? Tell us all about it.

Michelle 3:18

Okay, I'll take that. So when I finished my Master's, I was I just wanted to work and so I moved down to Chile for two years working at a marine research station, helping other scientists and research researchers internationally complete their work. And it was really awesome, but didn't obviously pay a huge amount. So when I came back to Canada, I was looking for a lucrative job that I could pay off my student loans with, to be quite honest. And at that time there was a lot of young professionals going into environmental consulting and I didn't know a lot about it. And I chose a company based on reputation and a few people that I knew worked there. And that happened to be also where Colin worked at the time. So that's where we met. And we didn't work a lot together. We were on different technical teams. I was on the Marine team and Colin was on the fish, wildlife team. So kind of was like a slow start. We eventually came back together. Colin had left and started as an independent contractor. Which for those of your listeners who might not know, it just basically means that you are a business and you can hire out your services. And you've filed taxes as a individual business. Yeah. Full proprietors. Yeah. And we got together in a relationship over time and I was still working for the big corporation that I was working for at the time, and Colin was still working for himself. And at some point fast forward a few years we got married and we had some children. And by the time I was almost ready to go back after my second maternity leave, I was getting really like, stressed and anxious about it because, you know, I was commuting for like 45 minutes, one each way every day. And the culture had shifted a lot and there was a lots of reasons. And Colin just kind of said, well, why don't, why don't you just quit and me and Bailey and

Colin 5:17

so at that like very time too, I, we were, Bailey Environmental was involved with Jason maoa filming the first season of sea, although Oh very. Michelle was also noting, you know, our company was doing very well too, and you know, every few months as well too. Somebody from the in the movie department would deliver to our door a check, which was also really nice too. So I think we all started to see that there was some, some benefits like Michelle wouldn't have to do that commute, which was clearly becoming like a stressful thing for even to think about as she returned back. But there was some also some bigger potential financial gains to be made by us joining up and, and doing it together.

Michelle 5:59

Yeah, we're looking for more of like the work life balance, which is ironic, but Yeah. So it was like a pretty huge risk, right? With two little kids and a mortgage in North Vancouver you know, to be independent and not have that kind of certainty or stability. But we kind of saw the flip side of that, which is that, especially in our industry and many industries, there really isn't that certainty anymore. Like a lot of people have a number of careers throughout their life. It's not like our parents' generation where they worked for one company and they retired there. Right. So there really isn't that, like, you can't be like, well, I'm working here and they're gonna keep me forever. Well, you know, the economy changes and there's huge layoffs and all the rest of it. So the risk was still there. And I think the benefit was potentially. And it worked out really well. I mean, once Colin and I both have a really extensive network of colleagues and friends in real life, but also on social media and that I think that is really key to make sure that you have that social network of people that know you and trust you and they know you're a hard worker and they know you're a good person. Because once, people started to realize that we were out on our own and, and doing this thing, we just started getting calls being like, oh hey, like I heard you guys are teamed up and doing this work and you're offering marine services now. And you know, it just kind of snowballed from there. So yeah, we're really fortunate and worked really hard. Yeah, are working really hard. I'm not so sure about the work-life balance part anymore. But I think that's pretty standard

Alex 7:37

Yeah. Still though, that's great. And you get to be your own boss, kind of make your own schedule, all that fun stuff.

Michelle 7:43

Yeah, for sure. And you know, one of the really cool parts is that we can provide, provide those jobs that are cool and interesting to other people in an environment where they're valued as people and not just numbers and in a way that feels really good and feels like a family. Like everybody that works for Bailey Environmental feels that family feeling. Yeah. And you could reach out to any one of them and like ask them privately, and they'll tell you the truth. And that's something that's I, and I think Colin is too, is just super proud of. The fact of that we've created something very special. Not only the technical services, but also like the group. The group. Yeah.

Kandyce 8:32

That's awesome. Sounds like you guys have a collection of good people and passionate people

Michelle 8:38

as well. Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Really lucky.

Colin 8:42

And you have to be really careful too as you grow your team, you know, each selection that you bring in has, has the potential to throw the direction off, or I wouldn't say tanked, but you know, if you bring in somebody that doesn't work with a group, that can really have a bigger effect than you might think. So the choice is when we select new people, we don't take it very lightly and we really take our time and get to know, get to know the people a little bit more during an interview process and just how we generally assess who's gonna be right for the group

Michelle 9:08

also. Yeah. If I may add almost a hundred percent of the people that are working with us right now came to us through. Personal referral from someone that we know and trust. And that approach has been really effective. It's not perfect. You're always gonna, you know, there people are people. But yeah, I would say like 98% of the time it's worked really well.

Alex 9:32

No, you can definitely get like a better metric, I guess, on someone if they know someone where to works for you versus just you. You can't really gleam someone's personality from a resume.

Michelle 9:41

No. You can actually glean very little from a CV other than the letters behind someone's name. like, and a lot of the, a lot of the work that we do if you're a smart biologist or environmental person, you're gonna be able to learn the majority of things that we do. But what's important to me is if you can sit in the pouring rain and freezing cold and not be a big grmp about it. Because nobody wants to be in the field with a crump They wanna be within the field as someone who's positive and shows up on time and is like, happy to be there and a pleasant person you know, sit in a little blind with watching sea lions all day long or whatever it is that you're doing. more important.

Kandyce 10:26

Definitely hard to describe that on a resume. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's for sure.

Alex 10:32

I think it would also sound kind of fake even if someone's like, everyone loves me actually, if that were talking on a resume So why is what you both do so important with consulting?

Michelle 10:42

I can take that.

Colin 10:43

Yeah, go for it.

Michelle 10:43

I think that there's a role for everyone with regards to the environment. Environmental consultants sometimes get a bad wrap because many of our clients are industries and companies that are sometimes doing things that may not align with some of our values. For example, oil and gas clients or mining clients or what have you. But I think that it's really important to have good ethical, technically sound environmental consultants to be helping those clients to do what they're doing in the best way possible within the legislation that we have. So a lot of the times we have the opportunity to actually affect real change for a project that maybe is controversial by proposing alternate ideas or novel ideas. Or, you know, coming up with ideas to like, give back and improve the community or the environment or to like actually use some of that revenue to, to do good work. So I think that we have a really unique opportunity in affecting those changes when things are actually being built. Which quite often at that point it's kind of too late, right? They've already got permits and the decisions are made. So we're the people on the ground that are actually making sure that those contractors and excavator operators and what have you, are actually doing what they have committed to do to protect the environment and to stop, things when they're not doing those, those types of actions. That's why I think it's, it's pretty cool. Just on that aspect, I dunno if you wanna add anything. I think that was perfect. Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah.

Kandyce 12:44

Yeah. That's awesome. And I think that as you said, like those darker sides with the companies that maybe don't align with all of our typical environmental sides, you definitely can have an impact as a consulting company and especially as a smaller consulting company.

Michelle 12:58

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think what a lot of, I mean, sometimes I get into discussions with the general public, whether it's your family over holiday meals or friends or whatnot. And I think what a lot of people forget is that to be a qualified environmental professional, we are. Members of a professional association. And the important part of that is that we adhere to a code of ethics, and so we're upheld to that membership and to that body. And so, like, you know, if we're not, I don't know, for me, my ethics are so important and I'm not gonna go against them. Even if a client is like, Hey, can you just you know, change this report? I'm like, no, definitely not. And actually, like many of the professionals that we know would never do such a thing. So I think that's really important to remember as well.

Kandyce 13:49

Right.

Alex 13:50

No, absolutely. I definitely agree with that. And it is really difficult in our field too, to try to balance like you said, your values with what the situation is on the ground, but at least you. Like you said, if the permits and everything's gone through, it's gonna happen so you can make sure it's done as well as it could possibly be done.

Michelle 14:07

Yeah. Or improved. Exactly. And do a really good job of salvaging all those critters and moving them out of the way and, you know, doing surveys in a sound way where you're gonna actually know where they are so that you can move them out of the way or do what you need to do.

Kandyce 14:25

Yeah. Consulting really puts someone that's passionate and cares about the environment on the ground in a location that, I guess otherwise there wouldn't need to be someone there. Right. Yeah. There's, there's lots of feelings and lots of education behind Yep. All of consulting work, Yeah, absolutely. Very important. Absolutely.

Michelle 14:46

And a really high level of communication and soft skills required because I mean people do when they're not very successful. But if you wanna be successful at, especially when something's being built at making sure that it's done correctly, you can't come in like a police officer. You have to come in as part of the team. And you have to know how to talk to people of a lot of different backgrounds. Not only biologists and consultants, but machine operators and superintendents and clients and regulators and First Nations assistants and people of all different backgrounds and knowledge sets. And be able to explain what it is the commitments are and how to stay compliant and how to protect the environment and keep the project moving and going forward. So it's a really unique skillset to be able to talk to really anyone.

Alex 15:44

I'm sure a lot of them aren't happy to see you guys either to add another layer of soft skills to it.

Michelle 15:49

Yep. You're totally right. The environmental person on projects often has a bad rap, and I think a lot of that comes from previous experiences with folks who have not done it as well as they could have. And so a lot of our initial approach is to build those relationships and levels of trust before starting to lay down the law. So when any of our crew, and like this is something that Colin and I, really express and model, which I think a lot of the crew is doing wonderfully at, is you don't walk into a new project and start being like, this is wrong and that's wrong and this is wrong and you need to do this. It's the first thing is like, hey, like this is my name and this is my background. And like, who are you? And how long have you worked here? Laying that foundation for building that relationship where they realize that you're actually like trying to help and you're being part of the team. And that's the hardest part. I think

Kandyce 16:50

That's an awesome perspective to have the environmental field's getting there. But I feel like there's still a long way to go, so it's great. It sounds like you guys have lots of experience in dealing with all of the people on the job site.

Michelle 17:02

Yeah, for sure. And we don't only do that kind of environmental monitoring. That's where a lot of the work is, but we've recently tried to balance it out cause a lot of us are biologists at heart and we wanna do research and, conservation based projects. So we've really tried to maximize grant programs so that we can do our own independent research, like on species at risk. Those are like the real feel good projects that people get really excited about. And kind of balance it out a little bit. It can get a little tiresome to repeatedly you know, tell construction crews to pick up their garbage or, dig in yourself fence properly and people'll need to balance that out with looking for cool animals and, you know, everybody wants to hold cute salamander, I think. Yep. Yes. Most of, oh, a hundred percent

Kandyce 17:55

So if you had to pick a favorite part of your job what would it be?

Colin 17:59

Well, I think that you could split that two cause there's kind of, there's two parts of our job and one is the desk work in the office and the other is typically the field work. So they're both very different the field work for me is special when you get to go to places prior to development and you get to take a look and get a good feel on the ground for, you know, what, what animals are there, what vegetation is there, and you get to look and experience something that's really remote. It means a lot to me when you feel like you're in a place where there, you know, where no other people around. A good example would be, I worked on the development of the BC's first wind farm and there's, they would drop me off on the peak of a mountain in the Rocky Mountains and leave me for a couple weeks to do some bird radar work and some bird transact work. And you know, after you see the helicopter fly away and you're setting up your gear and you realize that there's nobody around for hundreds of kilometers, that's a feeling you can't get when you go for a walk in your local park or, you know, you walk, you drive to Golden Ears or something like that because it's so much more remote. And you're there for work. So it's great. It just feels so neat to be able to do that. And in the office you know, I've worked in a few different places and I can only, I really kind of talk to the environment that we're in now it's fun and it's challenging and I feel like I've got like a family around me too. So it's kind of a really neat environment So the office for me is more like a collaborative. Kind of feeling, whereas the field work is maybe a little bit more individual, a little bit more remote and different kind of a different feeling. So they're really kind of diverse from each other. Yeah, I think that's the best way I can really describe it.

Michelle 19:41

I would say that for me right now, the best part of this job is the people and building relationships. I love the people side of things, whether it's the team, the Bailey team or the client team or the construction team, or just random local people in a community that you're working in. Like, I love getting to know people and know what makes them motivated. And for the people on our team anyway, it's just like helping them. To succeed in, in their goals and dreams and seeing that success is really cool and rewarding. I think no matter what business, if I was in a different business, like that's what I would be doing anyways. The fact that I happened to be trained in biology and environmental consulting is kind of like secondary for me. I think But when I was younger, I would say the field work was definitely my favorite for similar reasons I got to fly all over the place, the Arctic and BC and going to small communities that you would not get to go as a tourist or places that you just wouldn't it prohibitive or it's far. Just seeing those small communities and beautiful landscapes just getting that opportunity to do that cool stuff it was really special. I have a lot of good memories,

Colin 20:59

places like Kit Catlan and Hartley Bay and places that there's no way you're ever gonna visit those places unless you're doing my research.

Kandyce 21:06

Yeah. That's awesome. Sounds like you guys have had great

Michelle 21:10

experiences. Yeah, for

Colin 21:12

sure. With the varying experiences in the field too. And I think, you have some days in the field which aren't always that great as well.

Kandyce 21:20

Yeah. And that actually leads us to our next question, what are some of those more difficult things that you bump into on, say, a regular basis or kind of make your job a little bit more difficult or hard to deal with?

Colin 21:33

For me, it's The unpredictability has almost always come in the field. Quite often it's driven by weather. You know, we've lost, I've, you know, been riding with people up mountains with snowmobiles and they've lost the snowmobile off the cliff and just jumped off right before it went off by being, you know, trapped on mountains for days with frozen water. Choppers can't get us, you know, standard bear stuff. Like you name it. You know, I've been sent out to work in the field with people that were waiting trials for violent crimes. It's just all sorts of like, really bizarre stuff you would never anticipate, but, you know, you just gotta roll with it and, and do the best you can.

Michelle 22:13

especially though like the safety factors are totally different even than when we first started, the emphasis on safety is I feel like for a lot of the people who started when we started and before, it's like almost over the top now with like check-ins and inReach and all that kind of stuff. Cuz we just didn't have that. And I'm not saying that it's a bad thing that it's safe like that now, but I think yeah, a lot of those crazy experiences hopefully are mitigated with a lot of the communication technology that we have now. Yeah.

Kandyce 22:46

In reaches are so handy, especially for backcountry work, just a quick click of the button and you know exactly where that person is.

Michelle 22:53

I really hate administrative stuff, but I think that's really challenging for me to get motivated to do because it's not that interesting or fun nowadays. We do a lot of work in the winter or in the night and in remote places and on the coast. I've spent so many hours just standing still in the rain, in the slee, in the snow, trying to see a marine mammal or watch sea lions and it's not like you're running or walking, it's cold and kind of boring cause you're staring at the water for hours on end and not seeing anything. So you really have to be mentally strong and, keep your mind active and ignore those physical discomforts you

Alex 23:36

both find. You kind of miss it. Looking back though, it can be the absolute worst field experience, but at the end of the day it was still a lot of fun.

Michelle 23:43

Oh yeah. A hundred percent. No question at all. All of my life's field work, which is not over yet. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Alex 23:53

So Colin, I know you started in aviation and then you kind of moved over to environmental and then Michelle, you seem like you've just always been on the environmental track. But was there an initial spark for you both that got you into the field? Experience as a kid, maybe you saw a WWF commercial. Was there an initial motivator?

Colin 24:10

I think we've both just been really outdoors. You've been really lucky with our parents. Have, they always took us out camping, you know, holidays out. For me it was, you know, introduction was every, my, both my parents were school teachers, so during the summer we got to spend the last two weeks in August, every year on Vancouver Island doing something on the water. So I knew that that, like, to those places that we were visiting and spending those two weeks became so special to me. It was almost I could just hold those places. Just on a pedestal, how, how much I just those places meant to me. So when it didn't work out in the aviation industry, I just felt like it was the lower risk because my heart. And I didn't really know exactly what jobs were there cause you can only read a pamphlet and talk to a few people. But it just felt like something I could get behind ethically and just something that I, I wouldn't say spiritually, but maybe a little bit, I just really felt tied to it and I had no problem just fully committing to it for the following. You know, it's just two years in the, the Fish and Wildlife Management course at B C I T. And it it was really clear to me at the end. I definitely made the right decision.

Michelle 25:17

I think for me I remember distinctly, when I was a little kid we both grew up in the Freezer Valley, so I was in Cak growing up. And so we used to come into Vancouver probably like once a year to go to the Vancouver Aquarium. And that was really influential on me. But when I went through university, I just knew that I liked biology and as I got more specialized, I was really interested in behavioral ecology. And so when I was finishing up my bachelor's and looking for a job, what I was primarily targeting was animals, larger predators, and somewhere that I could be in the mountains hiking around in the outdoors. Like Colin said, both of our parents took us outside camping and outdooring a lot. But what I really liked was the behavior. And strangely enough, the job that I wound up getting was Looking at behavioral stellar sea lions for another grad student out in southeast Alaska. So it was behavioral ecology, but it was a marine animal. So it was kinda my entryway into the marine world. And so I've never taken a marine course in university at all, but I've landed in marine sciences somehow, which is kind of cool. So that is very cool. Yeah. And totally random, right? And so after I finished working for the summer for her, her supervisor offered me a master's thesis for a year long study on the behavior of stellar sea on whatever I can think of. So we like built a little cabin on this tiny little rock in Southeast Alaska. And had two people there all the time watching them and recording their behavior. And even though I was looking at behavioral ecology, because I did a marine species it's easy for other people to kind of put you into the marine biologist box. And so when I came into consulting, I actually applied initially for the Wildlife Group and was rejected and pushed over to the Marine group. And I was like, okay, sure. And here we are. Yeah.

Kandyce 27:19

That's awesome. It's always really cool when people end up write exactly where they were supposed to be, but it's not necessarily what they thought that they were aiming for. Yeah. They really love those stories

Michelle 27:32

And you have to have an open mind you can't be really fixated on one idea, I think is really important to remember that our lives are so long and you can bounce around to different things and meet people along the way, if you're hardworking and kind, you'll find the right spot for

Alex 27:49

yourself. Absolutely. If you guys could go back 10, 12 years, would you have thought this is where you'd be? If you could say Hey, you're gonna have a company in 12 years, would you believe yourself?

Colin 27:58

No. I definitely would never have perceived that we had a fully functioning team operating within, an office and just, just, no, there's no

Michelle 28:06

way.

Colin 28:07

I conceived the idea that I wanted to have my own company right. About 15 years ago. But there's no way that I would've been able to predict that we, we, that I would be on a team that I, that I feel is really strong and cohesive. Like maybe a team of like three or four people, but no, nowhere near the depth that we're so lucky to have right now. Especially, between the two of us and then the team around us. Cause it, I could have never predicted. It feels so grateful.

Alex 28:33

Oh, I can imagine. How many staff are you guys up to now from where you started?

Michelle 28:37

Well, Collin started as themselves and it depends what day you ask. Cause we do have, short-term contract and sometimes we work with graduate students who just want a little bit of work here and there, things like that. But generally I would say we have a, about 15 full-time folks,

Colin 28:56

plus the two of us.

Michelle 28:57

That's awesome.

Colin 28:59

It's so amazing. Especially, you know, I look down that list of people and everybody's got such a unique skillset and you know, every name on that list is somebody that I would, enjoy, going on a trip with or just hanging out with and talking in the car. It's, it's just really it's a unique situation.

Michelle 29:16

Yeah. People hang out when they're not working and it makes my hearts so warm.

Colin 29:21

Like new employees, we'll go and hire somebody and then we'll find out that three of our employees went camping, did this activity independently this weekend after work. And they didn't even know each other, you know, four months ago. So that's really cool stuff to see that, that, that, you know, we feel like we're making the

Michelle 29:38

right choices, bringing good people together too. Also, I feel like. When I first started consulting as a junior, there was such a wonderful group of people that worked there like that I'm still friends with, and that Colin's still friends with and are still part of our network. And like everyone moves on to different jobs and companies and stuff. But it's really cool when you can have that group of people that actually like each other and care about each other. And there's just so much good that comes from that. People are more safe because people are looking out for each other. But yeah, it's very cool.

Alex 30:14

No, definitely. And if you're spending, like you said, 12 hours in Slee and Rain in a Blind, you wanna be with someone that makes it fun.

Michelle 30:22

Yes. Yep.

Kandyce 30:23

Well, if you could go back and give yourself advice what would it be and would you accept it?

Michelle 30:30

I don't know what the timeframe you wanna be is, but any advice Hmm. I would go back and tell myself not to stress about what job I was gonna do after finishing my schooling. And just to relax and be patient and take opportunities as they came say yes. And I think I would not have accepted that advice and I would've been stressed anyways. But Yeah, I guess I dunno, I would've told myself to really focus on, on building that network of people. Approach somebody that you admire at a conference is a lot different than sending them a message on LinkedIn. And so I guess part of that advice would've been just to like, be brave and not worry about what other people think.

Kandyce 31:14

that's awesome advice.

Colin 31:15

I think for me it would probably be after I had initially started the sole proprietorship and taken on, you know, I was just so incredibly ambitious and willing to give up. Any time I had at that point where you know, I did some stretches of work, which were, were just unhealthy for me at the time. Just the volume of work. And you know, you always hear people reflect on when they're starting their own business and how hard they had to work and everybody does. But I think I would've been able to listen to a little bit of advice. I would've told myself to just take a day off every once in a while in those stretches and just find a way to stay in touch with the things that could keep you happy, that are outside of work during those stretches when you're doing three, four or five months without a day off without a full day off to just take a day off and just make it happen. Cause you can't get that time back once it's gone. That's it. And I don't know, I think I was so headstrong again at that point, I probably wouldn't have listened to myself either. So

Kandyce 32:14

that's great advice though. And it's definitely hard to remember to take that time for yourself and prioritize it, especially when you're super excited about what you're doing and super passionate about it.

Colin 32:25

Yeah. And you know, it was feeling that it was working and you're also getting paid for it too. So you're seeing the financial benefits of the trade off. But it's hard to measure the impacts on yourself when you really are working more than you should

Alex 32:39

Yeah, absolutely. Going off the work-life balance now that's more than just you obviously running the show, but how do you two find managing, running the company and being parents and juggling it all?

Michelle 32:49

I would say it fluctuates, but overall, medium we're pretty fortunate. We have both sets of our parents are pretty interested in hanging out with our kids. So they do help now and again a little bit. And yeah, it kind of changes with where we're at and what's going on. And as we've gotten busier over the last years, it's, it's you know, we have, have to shift responsibility sometimes you have to work a little later. But for me, I'm grateful that I don't have someone. Above me at some company telling me that I can't leave early to go to my parent teacher conference or I can't work at home. You know, I don't have that person telling me how to manage my own time. And that feels really good because we can take an afternoon off and go hang out with our kids cause it's not like we're not working our full-time hours And I think part of the challenge is just remembering that you are allowed to do that cause that's what we want. We want everyone on the team as well to not be overworked.

Kandyce 33:58

That's awesome.

Michelle 33:59

Yeah, and I think we're getting to the point where we have people around us that we know and trust and that are capable enough to manage things. If we wanted to take a holiday sometime

Kandyce 34:11

That's awesome. And I hope that you guys get to take a holiday very soon.

Colin 34:16

That's definitely one of the tradeoffs too. I mean, it is. It's difficult to just get up and take off and I think, we're on our way to getting to that point where we can check our phone less frequently, but it's really tough not to keep an eye on things even when you're on the road with your family doing anything.

Michelle 34:32

I will say as well, that for anybody doing any job, I don't care what the job is. When you have children, it's very challenging to have any kind of balance at all when they're young because they need you so much and you're awake in the night a lot. So it's a short term window of life that's a challenge no matter what you're doing. And I think the fact that we're also trying to run a business is just like an extra added layer.

Colin 35:00

We're also both the soccer coaches of our kids teams as well too. Oh my God, you guys gotta slow out. I team Michelle's ILAs coach, and I'm Oliver's coach.

Michelle 35:09

Yeah,

Colin 35:09

it was fun but it's just another one of those things that just it stack up if you wanna do a good job. It's awesome. But again, it's just another thing Yeah. I also have a hobby that I do on the side as well too. I do music production. I've been signed by 10 record labels in the last five years. So that's something that I do when I get any free time.

Alex 35:31

That's awesome. Yeah. That's great. Kind of giving me a little bit of a complex here though.

Michelle 35:35

I

Kandyce 35:35

was just wondering are there any experiences that you guys are. Super excited or were super excited to expose to your children, like camping and hiking trips

Michelle 35:47

yeah, a hundred percent. All of that, all of the above. we have like made a priority since they were little babies. We have pictures of them in the baby life jackets on the boat and sleeping in the bassinet in front of the boat So yeah, for sure. We've done all of those things since they were very little and it's really annoying. It's, a lot of work and camping with little kids at some point. It's not even that much fun for the adults, but like in your heart, you know, that it's so awesome for them. So it makes it all worth it. And the age that they're at now, it is actually getting like really fun. Like they can ride their bikes around the campground independently and like they both have caught like massive spring salmon and go inter titling and they like learn stuff. We actually had our parent teacher interviews today and Oliver's teacher, he's in grade three and his teacher was commenting how his knowledge of coastal BC and the natural environment is so impressive. She said that he always puts up his hand and like offers some piece of random information and it made my heart just glow with Pride That's awesome. Yeah. We also have a dog who's very needy.

Kandyce 37:04

Does he come along on the adventures as well?

Michelle 37:07

We're He does, yeah. She does.

Kandyce 37:10

If you had to pick a favorite project, what would it be for each of you? It can be any project. It can be a project on the go, or a past project or a future project or one from long, long ago.

Colin 37:23

You know, I thought I would always be fun to do some sort of research project on the North coast that involved angling for research You know, you can't get permits to collect fish by way of, instead of using like an electro fisher or dip net sort of sanding, you actually go fishing That sounds a lot of fun to eat.

Kandyce 37:44

That would be lots of fun.

Michelle 37:45

I'm just trying to think. I really enjoyed the work that we did in Chile which was a lot of scuba diving and looking for species and little critters for other scientists. And I really liked that because normally when you go scuba diving, one of the rules is you're not allowed touching anything, right. You can't touch anything. You can't destroy anything, obviously for good reason. But when a scientist do it for research and they're like, we need you to collect these critters, it's so cool. Cause you get to go down with like jars and bags and collect a little critters and look at them and yeah. it was just something that you're not normally able to do. I kinda like the researching side of. The hands on being on a boat,

Kandyce 38:27

being on the boat definitely just makes everything a little bit better. does

Colin 38:32

weather. Yeah.

Alex 38:34

I'm sure you two have those moments too. I feel it when I'm hiking, but if you're out angling or scuba diving where you feel like you gained the system, you're getting paid to do that and you'd be doing it either way. Yeah.

Michelle 38:43

Yeah. You're like cheating the system because then you think about, some people are sitting in a cubicle right now and I'm like out here in nature doing cool stuff. I like that.

Alex 38:55

Absolutely no, that, I think that's what makes this job. There's definitely challenging days and tough days, but then when you realize even at the end of the day you, you're doing cool stuff.

Michelle 39:04

Yeah, absolutely. There's nothing I would rather be doing.

Alex 39:08

So going off that, one of the favorite questions we like to ask everyone what's the strangest or wildest thing you've found in the field or out in the woods or out in the boat? Hmm. I mean, something that I've seen when, when I was in Chile, the transient killer whales would come up the inlet like once a year and we were out on the boat and they came by the boat and they were hunting the sea lions there, like right next to the boat and it was like super gruesome and kind of horrible for the sea lion. But it was so interesting as a biologist to actually witness the predation, of the killer whales. And they even had like a young one with them that was like still kind of pink a little bit before they turn all white. And that was very cool. There was a lot of hooten and hollering it was really exciting.

Kandyce 40:00

It would be very cool to see the whole family out there and as sad as it is. Yeah, and as sad as it is to see the circle of life directly in front of you, it's also very cool Yeah.

Colin 40:14

I don't think I've found anything that's really that interesting, you know, recovered, you know, lost snowmobiles and things like that. But, I did have an interesting experience with a humpback wheel up in Bernard Harbor up on the north coast on an evening where we were doing a marine bird study study on the coast and we tied up in this in this harbor cul Bernard Harbor, which is way up north along the coastline, really remote. And I had a crew, there was three of us on board and you know, everybody went to sleep at night and I sat up on the deck and there was this, like a small light on the vessel I was on, was facing down in the water. And so there was a humpback that came and keyed in on this light and was using it to. And so it was coming up right next to our boat, just like a meter from our boat. And it was, it was coming up and it was making eye contact with me. No doubt. And like watching me as I stood there every time it came up and it was the strangest, you know, cause I've seen lots of whales before, but I've never been a hundred percent certain that they're actually watching me and looking at me and making eye contact, it's eyeball was about as big as a billiard ball and just really glassy, you could see it, it was just staring right at me and I couldn't tear myself away from it and just go to sleep. I stayed up well into the night just cuz I didn't, I didn't wanna miss anything. It was only, it was just doing the same thing, circling around and scooping up some food and then, and then going back down. But when it came up to collect the food, it was just breaching water.

Alex 41:45

Those are both really, really cool stories. I think I've only ever been out once looking for whale. I was hum box off Nova Scotia and that one definitely stuck with me. And then you guys being up and close like that. I was nowhere near that close. Yeah. I was freaking out like hyper the rest of the day. Yeah.

Michelle 42:03

But you guys know, as a biologist, you have to put your time in before you see that amazing thing. The general public thinks it's all like crazy experiences, but there's like thousands of hours of nothing So you're like, yes, finally my day has come.

Kandyce 42:19

you've earned it. Yeah, do you guys have any advice for someone that's wanting to make their application stand out,

Michelle 42:28

build their network and get a recommendation from somebody? Is the best way A personal recommendation? I get a lot of cvs in my inbox and they all look pretty similar, to be honest. But if you can have a personal referral, I'd say that's number one. If you can't, I would say to do your homework. If you're applying for a company and you don't know anything about them or who it is that you're talking to, like forget about it. But if you come to an interview or like approach and be like, Hey, I follow you on LinkedIn or I was looking at your website and I was reviewing your projects and I'm really in line with my values and or you know, like some kind of something to show that you're actually like looking at the company that you're applying for that makes you stand out. Cuz it shows that you're actually putting in time and interest.

Colin 43:17

Totally. And like quite often when a company is hiring, they're looking for help with either a specific project or a specific role. So it's good to find that note ahead of time so you can adjust your application and your resume, your CV to highlight those particular skills. And what you might do is just spend a little bit more time talking about, you know, how you can serve those roles. And also you might even consider providing specific references for working in those roles you've had in the past so that the person reading it would know right away that, you know, the candidate has a experience in the exact field you're looking for. And b, references that can that can confirm that you've, you've done a good job in those roles before.

Michelle 43:57

And if you don't have experience, if you're coming outta school and you're like, I have no idea what I wanna do or how to get started, I would find people that you admire and talk to 'em about how they got started. Even if it's just a professor from your university that you know, and just be like, Hey, like how did you get started? I need some help and advice. Can you recommend me? Are there any grad students looking for field techs? Talk to people in the industry. Say, you know, what industry you wanna go in, find those people that are willing to spend 20 minutes talking to you and pick their brain and find out what courses look good.

Alex 44:35

Absolutely. So if someone wanted to get involved with Bailey Environmental Consulting and learn more about your organization, what you guys do where should they go? LinkedIn

Michelle 44:43

Is number one. We're very active on posting and we've had a lot of sole source projects come directly from people in our network. Seeing what we're doing and what we're up to, and how many people we have working and just generally liking our.

Colin 44:58

And also like even people have introduced themselves to us based on them, you know, having followed us and enjoying our post. So we might be on a project somewhere with a hundred or a couple hundred people on it. Somebody will just come outta the woodwork and say, Hey, I know Michelle Bailey and I follow your post. And it might not be somebody that Michelle has met before, but it's nice to have that connection. Cause you know, they're watching and they're, they're listening and they're seeing what we do and they're appreciating that kinda the different spin we put on it as well.

Kandyce 45:24

That's awesome. A lot of people say that it's really important to me following the perspective companies that you're looking to be employed by just because you're keeping in line with what they're up to and kind of watching what's going on and Yep.

Michelle 45:38

Staying relevant. Right? Yep. For sure. For

Kandyce 45:41

sure. And,

Alex 45:43

and I guess always networking too, cause I'm sure you get flooded with CVS resumes, but if someone messaged you personally on LinkedIn and then later on applies, you're like, oh, this person, there's makes them stand out a bit more. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely.

Colin 45:57

The comment sections it's a really good way to sound out as well too. It's an opportunity to put in a little bit more than just like a heart or, you know, a thumbs up kind of thing. If somebody makes a thoughtful comment on one of your postal, responds to something you said with some thoughtful words. It's also kind of heartfelt as well too. It's easier to remember a person to take, not only like takes the time to write a little bit more than just clicking the heart, but that kind of shows that they're absorbing what you're talking about and they feel confident enough to add either own, spin on it or reach out to you and it feels good too, and that's a really good way to, to initiate those kind of bonds. And also just keep it up after a while, just drop in on somebody's posts and make a comment

Kandyce 46:36

awesome.

Colin 46:37

Hey sweetie, how are you? You're sweetie. Hi. Hello.

Michelle 46:42

Hi. Hi. Hello,

46:43

Oh, hi. Well, I guess that's our sign to wrap things up here. Thank you so much. Colin and Michelle for coming on and letting us interview, it's been a great time getting to know you guys so thank you

Michelle 47:03

yeah. And thank you for inviting us to participate. It was really fun.

Alex 47:07

Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us

Kandyce 47:09

thank you so much for tuning into Emerging Leaders for Biodiversity. How do I do this? An environmental queer podcast.

Alex 47:16

Be sure to follow us on social media and our website using the handle EL number four, biodiversity to get the latest news on upcoming events and other exciting opportunities.

Kandyce 47:26

We can't wait for you to tune in to our next episode