S3 E03 A Special Careers Pandemic Panel with Sherwin Watson-Leung, Larissa Nituch, Nusha Keygohbadi, and Jessica Steiner

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0:01

Hello, and welcome to all my fellow trail mixers. I'm your host Meredith Meeker. And this is a very special episode of how do I do this and environmental career podcast. Okay. We are mixing it up. You won't be hearing the regular format today. We will be hearing from not one, not two, not three, but four special guests. And you won't be hearing much from me, Thomas McCauley. Biaz. you would have heard them on season one is going to take us through this very special panel discussion. That we had back in the summer. We have some familiar voices that are returning to the podcast this week, you might recognize them. We have Jessica Steiner. Larysa NewTek, Sherwin Watson. Uh, And Dr. Nisha Keiko body. So excited to have them back on the podcast. I know you're excited to listen to them. So let's get into it.

Thomas Macauley 1:08

My name is Thomas McCauley BSC, and I am one of the founding members of emerging leaders for bio-diversity ELB. And until a couple of months ago, I also served as its chair during its first five years. I am also on the steering committee of the global youth by diversity network, which is an international youth network that coordinates youth participant. In the conventional biological diversity. And I was also fortunate enough to represent Candace the Canadian government at the 13th conference of the parties for the CBD, which took place in 2016. My name is Thomas McCauley BSC, and I am one of the founding members of emerging leaders for bio-diversity ELB. And until a couple of months ago, I also served as its chair during its first five years. I am also on the steering committee of the global youth by diversity network, which is an international youth network that coordinates youth participant. In the conventional biological diversity. And I was also fortunate enough to represent Candace the Canadian government at the 13th conference of the parties for the CBD, which took place in 2016. right now, though, I work as an assistant manager to an escape room, so a little bit of a different field than environmental Congress, environmental conservation. but, it's still with a snake. I would like to welcome, four of our previous podcast guests, Dr. New Nisha. There is a Nighthawk Sherwin Watson lung and Jessica Steiner. before we jump into the questions, please let me introduce them all. firstly Larissa Nighthawk is a science operation supervisor with the ministry of natural resources and forestry leading the delivery of the provincial rabies research and control program. She has worked for the MNRF for over 12 years and a diversity of roles related to all my research and monitoring operations and policy and holds a master's of science from Trent university, focusing on disease and wild. Larissa is also the lead of MNRs chronic wasting disease surveillance program, as well as a variety of other wildlife health projects. Thank you so much, Lisa.

No one 4:09

Thank

Larissa 4:09

you, Thomas. Really happy to be here and excited to hear everyone's questions tonight.

Thomas Macauley 4:14

Oh, fantastic. I am as well. Next we have Dr. Initia Cagle button, who is a professor at Western university. Her research program combines elements of populations. Population ecology and landscape ecology, where they focus on understanding the effects of habitat fragmentation on Jen, on genetic diversity, she's worked on the conservation genetics of at risk butterflies on mosquitoes that are vectors of wildlife disease. And in agricultural and forest homology, she's also passionate about teaching and outreach. I do so much Nisha. Thanks for having me, Sherman Watson lung, is an aquatic ecologist working with the team to implement restoration products in the credit. With credit valley conservation. Sure. When as a program manager of aquatic and wetland risk restoration, Sherwin's passions like improving and preserving our water resources, empowering others, and as a Chinese Canadian and a person of color improving diversity and equity in the environmental field outside of work, again, enjoys spending time with his wife and kids, traveling, exploring the outdoors, listen to music and attending concerts, which fingers crossed we can get back to soon. Thank you so much. And, finally Jessica Steiner is the conservation programs director at wildlife preservation, Canada. And is the co-founder of their Canadian species initiative. She had the opportunity to work hands on with many Canadian and global species at risk. Jessica studied zoology at the university of wealth and earned a master's of applied science in wildlife health and population management from the university of Sydney. She was also our first podcast guest. It was very exciting. So thank you so much, Jessica, for joining us once again. of course, of course. so yeah, thank you all. And we'll just kinda jump right into it. So we'll start off with some of the pre-submitted questions, when we kind of run through those and we'll start to submit questions and take questions from yourselves, in the, in the audience using that question. on the sun there on the right. but to start off, kind of a quicker question, that we received prior in that is what is the number one tip you would give to someone looking for employment as we come out of the pandemic. So I'll pass it off to her. Probably panelists.

Jessica Steiner 6:19

I can start. I have a good quote from one of my team actually, cause I pose this question to my broader team. because we were talking about how often the advice is to go out and volunteer. But for many people volunteering, Is, you know, coming from a place of privilege and not a lot of people always have the ability to volunteer for long periods of time. so w you know, saying that that's the way to get your foot in the door. isn't always inclusive of a diversity of people. So, the sort of quote that came up was show up as much as you can, wherever you can. and really it's an opportunity to just show up. Any events or volunteer opportunities. It doesn't have to be a long stint. but you know, these several hour events where you can really talk to a diversity of people about your interests and can really open up doors and sort of unexpected ways, it doesn't necessarily even have to be specifically linked to your career, but you never know who you're going to meet that has connections or thinks of you when they see an opportunity. And so just being out there as much as possible and visible would be my recommendation, because the pandemic certainly made it really much harder to network because of restrictions on public gatherings. but there's opportunities that are starting to arise now. in Brampton, we've got like litter pickup events and turtle surveys that are starting to happen, and I've even been able to make really random work connections through. Like personally attending an art course from our local gallery. So you just never know where you're able to make, connections, those show up as much as you can, wherever you can talk to everyone that you possibly can and share your interest and your sort of goals for yourself.

Larissa 8:04

Maybe, maybe I'll just add on a bit to Jessica's. Do I agree with everything you said, Jessica? That's a great point. Another thing that I, I really think is. if you haven't necessarily been employed in your chosen field this year is really to think about those transferable skills when you're writing your resume or, or interviewing. I think some people think that that those, those jobs aren't necessarily applicable to environmental careers, but, just for example, I had someone who just recently applied for a job with me who was working as a contact tracer for this last. And there's a lot of skills from, from that position, like strong communication and interpersonal skills, being persuasive and empathetic, confidentiality even, and just being well organized. And, that person was able to take that experience from a contact tracer and, Apply it to the job that they were applying for, for me, which was involving, getting landowner permissions, to, to do work on their property. And it was just a great example of, they didn't necessarily, have that direct experience in the environmental field, but we're able to. To link those transferable skills. So I think that's another really useful thing that you can do coming out of the pandemic. And I have seen that the job market is starting to improve in the last couple of months. I've seen more job postings in the last two or three months than I have in the last year and a half. So I think things are starting to look up. so just kind of keep your heads up and don't get discouraged if you've been having a tough time. Cause I think things are going to get better.

Nusha Keygohbadi 9:39

Yeah. If I can maybe just follow up on, on what Larissa said. Cause I was thinking that, you know, during this pandemic, a lot of people are doing different things than they normally would or, or doing the normal things in different ways. And, You know, a lot of people are learning new skills and things that may not be in the context of traditional jobs or opportunities. So, I mean, there's certainly will be a lot of people coming out of the pandemic with, you know, what you might call gaps in their, in their resumes. But, And I think employers will be cognizant of that and forgiving of that. But I think, you know, if you can think about when you're selling yourself in your resume or in an interview, if you can think about communicating, how you use this time productively to nonetheless kind of further your, your skills, whether they're soft skills or hard skills. I think, you know, think about communicating how you've used this time, productively, despite, the limitations.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 10:39

I love what everyone's saying. It's a very useful place. I was writing stuff down too, so I can borrow your ideas and share them. yeah, I wish I had some, some. Better to top that or useful. I guess we've been really, yeah, we've been stuck at our computers and, and, but with this has opened up a whole new network for us to talk to each other and share ideas. So hopefully you've been able to learn some skills of networking in a different way. And at these kinds of events, right? So that's certainly a asset that I've learned in the last year and communicating with people in a different manner. and, yeah, lots of jobs have been, been posted certainly, at my work at credit valley conservation. And so there are things starting to be posted out there and, so keep your eye out. and, Th there's lots of other resources. I really liked, Jessica, I, I, you know, one of the pieces of advice I, I give often too as volunteering and I recognize that privilege of things. So, w w what I could recommend on top is sometimes if you're working other jobs, if it affords you the time. Tell some of our staff too, who are, tree planters, they're out in nature all the time. And you can, tie in some different things. So you could listen to your, your, you could listen to music podcasts all day while you're doing it, or you can, quiz each other and learn. Right. So tying in your everyday, you know, a lot of those things are free and maybe you have those kinds of moments, or, or that extra free time. If you're going to watch another episode of parks and rec, or maybe learn a couple of birds a week. Right. And, and yeah. Yeah. And I have started watching parks and rec this week.

Thomas Macauley 12:27

I was going to say good to sell recommendations. So it's okay if you do that as well. Oh, that's fantastic. I really like, as I think that there's a bit of like a through-line in like listening to all of your answers where it's like, I think you could almost kind of like frame it around, like, looking at yourself and like your experiences, what you do, and like giving yourself a bit more like credit, just in terms of like, sure. You might be working a job or getting an experience that like isn't, one-to-one related to the career. But like there's value in yourself and there's value in the experiences and the work and the volunteering and the discussions that you have. And I think it's like, yeah, frame it in the way that you kind of all touched on, which is, these can be leveraged into work. These, these are experiences that are going to help you work with others. Communicate, work with a team, a writing, understanding how to deal with. conflicts at work. And so I think I really couldn't let that through line for everyone words, really is kind of like, you know, value what you're doing. Even if it doesn't seem like you're doing a lot, it will help you somewhere down the road.

No one 13:30

Cool.

Thomas Macauley 13:30

and so then jumping to, another one of our pre-submitted questions. so is there anything you've learned over the course of your career that you wish you knew when you were first starting out? Maybe I'll toss it to Jessica first. Cause I see you on the screen burst.

Jessica Steiner 13:44

sure. I was pondering this question and it was thinking that I've been pretty fortunate in my career path because any hindsights that I have, haven't really been about a hindrance or a lesson learned moment in my career, but more things that have guided me to where I am today. So I really struggle with this question because you know, every experience that I've had. Has been, you know, gotten me to where I am today, whether it was positive or negative at the time. and I think that that's true for everyone's journey in their careers. So each experience is really gonna lead you to the next and we're all learning as we go. I mean, I still am. so it's, it's just as. in the early parts of your career to really figure out what you don't like, as much as what you do like, and it's okay to try different things and not decide immediately what you want to do for the rest of your life. and sort of touching on what the other ones. Answering and, for the first question, it's a good thing to diversify your skills. Like each job can be taken as an opportunity to gain skills that can be transferable. these jobs in the green sector, aren't all science and ecology all the time. there's also project management, people skills, fundraising, public outreach, presented. Technical skills that are all going to be important and can be picked up through opportunities that not aren't necessarily like a job that's really aligned with your career goals. so like, I always say that my career started when I was a camp counselor, because that was, gave me a whole bunch of skills that ended up landing me my first job in what I would have considered. You know, relevant to my career goals. but I would say that it started back then because it was the skills that I gained through that experience that made me attractive to the first employer that, gave me a job that I felt was really aligned with what I wanted to do with my career.

Thomas Macauley 15:36

Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's funny too. just when you mentioned, being a camp counselor, and listening to the podcast as well, we actually had a very similar, early trajectory where it's like, we went to, like, I also have a zoology degree from university of Gwelf. I also spent my summers as a camp counselor. I just then didn't, you know, travel the world for school. So I think you had a bit more of an exciting time of it, but yeah, I liked that a lot as someone as well, who came from that camp background where it's like, there's so many things you do at camp that are incredibly, incredibly transferrable to just whatever. maybe I'll, I'll pass it over to, Sherwin. I think I saw you had something on your mind, maybe.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 16:15

Sure. Yeah. I thought of two things that, came to mind. So I thought, what would I tell myself, you know, coming straight out of school? When first thing I would remind myself is that I don't know at all, despite spending, a lot of time at school, I certainly learned a lot and a lot of books, smart things, and how to do stats. And a lot of the work world taught me a lot. And so I would remind myself to keep an open mind and listen and learn. And there's people around you who've been doing it. even people who are new to it, it taught me a lot. So everyone around you just be open to learn and listen. and the second part is, Remind that a younger me to, to bust out of that introvert shell and, network and talk to people. It's okay. It's okay. To be nervous. it takes a bit of practice, but, it's one of those skill sets and things that have always led to, to, good things. So.

Larissa 17:16

It's interest. It's an interesting story. When I, mine mine is very similar. just sort of a thought to, to not be afraid, to be uncomfortable. and I definitely wish I had had kind of been able to tell myself back then, even just things like, Reaching out to a hiring manager. If you have questions about a job, you know, the worst they can say is, you know, I'm sorry I'm too busy today, but oftentimes at least I know from my perspective and the government sometimes, Dobbins can be really generic. And, just taking that leap and reaching out for more information can help you to better understand the position and, what qualifications they're looking for and how you're asking. Fits in. And also just to make that personal connection, you know, just that a piece of paper on a desk is a lot different than actually having a one-on-one conversation and that can really make a big difference, in your career. and also another thing that I would, I have, I have two lessons from myself to Sharon's. the other one is just in general, not just. Too much time or energy worrying about where you'll end up. I think I spent a lot of time doing that. when I was younger, just kind of embracing the unpredictability that is part of life in this career path, you know, the reality of a lot of careers these days is it does take a lot of time to get to a permanent job. And I think it's really important not to focus on that end goal necessarily, but to just focus on, on the present and building your skills and that network that everyone has mentioned. you know, and what you learn along the way, you know, whether it's those camp counselor skills or, or skills from other positions can, can turn out to be really useful in other ways and not perfect job will eventually come along if you keep working at it. So, so try not to worry too much about where you end up, but enjoy the journey together.

Nusha Keygohbadi 19:05

That's all such great advice. And it's really interesting because I think I'm also very much in the same thing. My thing was kind of also, you know, don't be afraid to take a leap. And I was thinking specifically in my career about, you know, if you have, if you have an idea, but you're not totally sure about it, or you think people might think it's crazy, like just put it out there. You don't have to. So it's perfect because the worst thing that will happen is people will just forget and it will go nowhere. But the risk of not putting it out there is that it could have been a really good idea and then it doesn't get developed or you see later on someone else has developed it and you're like, oh, I wish I'd followed up on that. So, yeah, just, don't be afraid to kind of put your ideas out there and take some risks. And, you know, the worst thing that happens is it doesn't go anywhere and people won't even remember. So.

Thomas Macauley 19:56

Yeah, absolutely. I, I, so many points. I love them all. Like, I think it's really telling as well when, you know, when, when you, when one person kind of makes a point or, you know, we're talking about how this, how one straight path, and, you know, sometimes you can do all this planning and sometimes you just have to like, take a leak. I do kind of like, you know, when you can see everyone on the panels are like nodding along, like, I hope everyone who's watching is like, that's a good indicator. Yeah. Yeah, like, this is true, no matter what sort of job or position you have or field you are, you're in, like there is that kind of one through line where, you know, it's, there's a part of it that's going to up to chance and you just have to like, take those chances either with an idea or, you know, talking to someone. And even though you might be like introverted, like just kind of putting yourself out there. yeah. what I might do is kind of, throw a question that's specifically for Larysa your way. And then I'll open it up to, some of the questions that we've been receiving in the Collins because, they are piling up, which is very great. so this one's for Larissa and it is what is the best path to get a best path to getting into government work in the environment before or after graduating. And how did you get your start?

No one 21:04

Yeah,

Larissa 21:04

that's a great question. I think you just hit on the answer just before you said that, is that there, there is no single path to a government position. there's lots of different routes that you can take. I do have some recommendations though. I think some really good options are, it here in Ontario, the OPSB summer student program. so there's summer student positions for all different sectors. and in the Ontario public service. And then also, the LPs internship. And both of those two programs provide really good entry points to the ministries and exposure to a lot of different aspects of government work. so not just necessarily a policy, but also operations and research where I am, and they're really good opportunities to kind of dip your feet in and see what you like. And don't like, as Jessica said earlier, and to form those networks, And, I know many of the stuff that that are within the ministry now have started their careers office summer school. Or junior forest Rangers. There's tons of junior forest Rangers throughout the seminar now or interns. and that's how I got my cert in the ministry. It is as an intern. I did my masters, with a research scientist in, in ministry, death, Bowman, and that's where I was first really exposed to the ministry. And didn't have any idea that they had a science and research program. And just the vast amount of research that's going on there. So after my degree, I was really lucky enough that an internship came up and I, I won that competition. so it was a really good opportunity to learn more about the ministry and to network with other sections. So I definitely encourage people. If you're interested in a government position, those are two really good entry points to get in and learn more about the position.

No one 22:51

Cool.

Thomas Macauley 22:52

Fantastic. And I hope that, kind of helped help. what I'll do now is I'm gonna jump to some of the, the questions that were kind of submitted, during the call. And what I might do is I'm going to switch, there's two questions that were, were put in one, one from Tiffany and one from, Shauna. And it was about, making like a mid-career shift or kind of pivoting into the environmental side. and so I think this is kind of a nice follow-up to what you were talking about, Larissa, where, there are a lot of like opportunities for people under 30, or for, for students. But if you're, you know, if you're a young person who, isn't a student anymore or, might be kind of in that mid career, you know, early thirties areas, is there a way, is it like maybe outside of volunteering, if you are, something's already. Volunteering in that space, like, is there a way of getting into that area for employment? I'll toss it off to Sherwin. Maybe you see a

Sherwin Watson-Leung 23:46

sure. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, 10 years ago I did do a shift, but was. From one organization to another. And I wanted to get back more into field work, rather than sitting at my desk. And of course, I'm sitting at my desk these days now anyways, and got away from the field work. But, yeah, the, I think the mid-career shift. Figuring out your transferable skills. So it was just quoting, you know, there's speakers. I forgot who said it, but there's lots of skillsets, especially if you've been, if you've held other jobs that are transferable, so it might be project management or, or, you know, your work with people and managing people. Like a lot of those things. It's the same thing across the board, right? Like, even sometimes like in, in my line of work, we go for external funding a lot. So writing funding reports or all sorts of transferable skills and, and then I'm looking at okay, if I want to get into that area, you're as the other skill set I want to build. So just, you know, keeping track of that, but know that you have stuff that's applicable to you.

No one 24:56

I'll make a

Larissa 24:57

dumping. just, another thing that kind of triggered in my mind as Sharon was talking, is just another way to, to maybe boost those skills. if you're looking to transfer over to a new position just right now, there's such a great opportunity of, of online courses being offered. you know, it's kind of one of those positives that the pantry. A lot of them are free. so I definitely remain, you know, recommend taking advantage of those, like take the opportunity to build your skillsets. a really good way to do it is maybe finding, a job ad or a job description for the job that you think you'd really like to have and going through those, those skills, and the experience that they're looking for. And then think about your own skills. And do you have that skill? do you have it, but haven't used it in a few years, or maybe you don't have that skill at all, and you can use that kind of analysis to, to decide what to brush up on, that will make you an even better candidate when the job market does pick up again. and, and hopefully a lot of those courses will remain available in three, for the next little while for folks to take advantage of.

Thomas Macauley 26:03

Absolutely Jessica, are you sure? Did you guys have anything to add there? Not to put you on the spot? Cool.

Jessica Steiner 26:09

I didn't really have anything productive to add. I just, it's a tricky question because it's a, as a charity, we are heavily reliant on many of these wage subsidies and the cutoff is 30, 31, regardless of what stage you might be at on your career. So it was. It does provide a bit of a, if you're trying to, you know, get into the nonprofit sector, it does provide a bit of a disadvantage if you can't meet those wage subsidy criteria. So it's more like a call out to, you know, government that early career doesn't necessarily have an age cut off. so it is a tricky time to, you know, find a job in that, in that age.

Nusha Keygohbadi 26:51

I mean, the only thing I would add, I guess, from an academic perspective is if, you know, if you're kind of mid-career and you're thinking about going back to school, that's fantastic. We love it. When we see mature students in our classes, they are the best students because they know why they're there. They want to be there. and yeah, so, you know, don't be afraid of going back to school, you will be like top of your class and your profs will it.

Thomas Macauley 27:18

I think that's nice. Oh, sorry, Sharon. Go on.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 27:22

No, we, we do see people, with university degrees. Sometimes they, they do a couple of years of work and then realize, oh, you know, I'm missing a little bit of a skill set. So they'll return back for, These one-year programs that give you a little boost. So in my field, there's Niagara college and they have a ecosystem restoration program or, or people go back to, Fleming. and so we see a lot of those combos and people who have done a couple of gone back to school a little bit. Marissa reminded me, so I work at a ministry. Government level. And so if you're transferring jobs as well, when w I, I would recommend yeah. gathering up those job ads. And I'm when you're applying to this is for government work. Anyways, is there's a lot of keywords in there. And, when people are going through it, they're going to be looking at that. So, a, you want to make sure you hit all those keywords to help you get, At least make the first pile of resumes and then start looking at that, to see where your transferable skills are. Right. Use that as your cause. There's so many, those, those descriptions can often be really descriptive and there's gotta be, you can make those key transferables and note them, and mention it in your current. Right. It may not be obvious in your, in your resume, but, I, I, I've seen a number of cover letters where people are saying I have cancer careers, or I, I want to transfer to the environmental sector. Well, I've moved and they make a very wonderful case for, you know, why we should interview them.

Thomas Macauley 29:02

Fantastic. Yeah. I love a lot of those answers, or I guess all of the answers. but yeah, it's kind of nice knowing a new shift from like kind of the, the education standpoint. cause I think, showing might've mentioned it first, or everyone's sort of mentioned at this point, being able to like talk with people and, and the importance of. So it's kind of nice getting the inside scoop that like, if you're a mature student in the classroom, the professor already likes you. So like there it's like that makes it in my mind so much easier to then have a conversation. Cause it's like, oh, I know that they already liked me, but this is great. I'm starting off on a right. but yeah, I like the idea of, you know, if you have the mind of the, you have this image in your mind of the environmental job, and it might be like, you know, outside are very different from like your career, but there's like you said, there's an HR department, there's a communications department. Like there's still a lot of one-to-one jobs with other, with other sectors. And it might not be that environmental job you had in mind, but at least you can get your foot in the door and then. like it was kinda said you never know what your career path looks like. So at least you're puts in the door and then you can kind of grow and explore from there. I liked that. and I will say, just in terms of Niagara college, I've met, I haven't done Toniic or college, but I've met a ton of young people, who go into the Niagara college program. So if you want to talk about like building your network, that's the way to go. Because like, there's something about the Niagara college program, some of the learning there, but those people spread all over the place and there's like a crazy network there. you could. so I'm going to jump now to a question from, Claire and it is, what environmental career options are available for someone who can't, or is not well-suited to a heavily field-based, positions. I think we touched on a little bit of some of the other jobs, but I want to kind of toss that back.

Jessica Steiner 30:48

Sorry. It was what for options for folks that can't, manage a field-based position? Is that right?

Thomas Macauley 30:54

yeah. So it was, for someone who not, maybe not, maybe not, well-suited something that's like heavily, field-based

Jessica Steiner 31:04

a couple of things that come to mind, certainly that have come up as needs within my organization are one folks who can do sort of. Data analysis and writing. We are so busy doing the work that we don't always have time to actually do anything with our data, but there's obviously an imperative to get things published. And so someone who's happy sort of mining data, doing analyses and that kind of thing. but that comes from a background that can understand the science or the species behind it is really valuable. And then similarly, and I think. this has become even perhaps more pronounced during the pandemic is, like communications and communications in a virtual environment. And that there's folks who are really savvy with social media and communications. but if you have a bio, like if you have a science background and a biology background and can kind of distill, Sort of the essence of the work that's being done and can see the stories arising from the work and communicate that in a really, effective way, then that's a real skill and, and neither of those require you actually physically being in the field. But if you have an understanding of background of the type of work that happens in sort of not typical field work position that would allow you to do those positions just so

No one 32:22

much better, Yeah,

Larissa 32:23

I'll just chime in into, I have almost the exact same thing to say as Jessica, but just from the government perspective, as Jessica said, like data management, data analysis, We're always looking for people who are strong in those and have that, that background. also, GIS skills. those are really important right now. and then, from the government perspective, backgrounds in policy, so policy and permitting, if you can bring in that policy background and an environmental background, you'll be a hot

No one 32:50

commodity.

Thomas Macauley 32:57

Yeah, Sherwin,

Sherwin Watson-Leung 33:01

sorry, we're talking over each other. Yeah. so data analysis for sure stats and, and, being, ABL able to manipulate data. So there's a lot of, folks who can we generate a lot of data in the environmental field. you know, now that there's data loggers and being able to manipulate that in a meaningful way is certainly a very useful skill in, has gotten people into, into my workplace. there's the research side, and, I got my foot in the door in the environmental field that led to field work, but, I counted bugs, benthic, insect collection from, from streams. And I sat out a microscope for six months, and just sorted and picked bugs, smelling ethanol all day long. So it branched out into other stuff. Right. So there's, My wife works at a. Ministry of environment and there's lots of lab, folks there too. There's a whole branch that slab services, And policy someone had mentioned. Yeah, I learned, so I think I'd mentioned policy. We have people who are planning, ecologists, who review plans it's to see what their impacts are on the environment. it could be species at risk base. It could be just regular, like fisheries and streams. So that's another option.

Nusha Keygohbadi 34:22

Yeah. So just to add to that, I was going to also say there are lots of lab based jobs that are environmental. So, I mean, on our, you know, in our department, we have a, an analytical chemistry lab that does like heavy metals analysis of, chemical samples. There's people who, you know, they don't collect the samples, they just get sent to them and they work in the lab and do the analysis. A friend of mine from, grad school. When he, when he finished his PhD, he started a company doing wildlife genetics. so they get samples sent to them and they do the genetic fingerprinting for those. So there's those kinds of jobs. I also think, you know, there's more and more. In, in the private sector, you know, jobs for like, sustainability officers, sustainability coordinators, you know, the university of hiring those kinds of positions. So I think in the kind of corporate sector, there's also an increasing number of environmental jobs that aren't your traditional biologist type of person, but, more kind of in that yeah. Business world, I guess.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 35:22

Climate change stuff. So, you just, I've seen a lot of those lately and it's, that's a very broad category.

Thomas Macauley 35:32

Yeah, I think that's a great point. there's like, we're really good at collecting data. And then it's like sifting through and analyzing that is like, no one neces view. I will say fewer people go to school to like analyze the data as opposed to like collecting the data. So, I think, I think that's like a good kind of call-out where it's like, I can imagine every, every job that collects data would love somebody who is willing to like look through the data and then have that knowledge to be able to understand the data. cool. and then I jumped to, I must, I'll jump to a question now from Emily, which is, are field-based internships beneficial before trying to find a full-time job and maybe I'll toss this one too. Yeah.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 36:19

Sure I am because, I have, I've worked with a lot of, it really depends on the field, like, the area of interest in terms of, the ecology world. Yeah. Deal based jobs in those early careers can, can set your path and expose you to all sorts of different things. So, I didn't know. I liked fieldwork until I started actually doing it. I was lucky to get on one of those really intern programs that, think Clarissa had mentioned. And, so it's also a chance to try out different stuff and you get exposed to, and I really look back on that as I got to do the fun stuff. That's when I really, you know, I looked back at it fondly and, so yes, it can lead to all sorts of, of, other work and learning a really solid skill set.

Larissa 37:11

Yeah, I'm just going to follow that up, as well. I agree with Sherwin, like some of my fondest memories of my career, was from working in the fields. I think if you're able to do it and enjoy doing it, it, it can really. Help to guide what, what your interests are. also just, you know, some things I learned from working in the field of problem solving skills, right? Like being able to think on your feet and come up with creative solutions, and just having that one-on-one connection with, you know, either the species you're working with or the habitat, just the environment, I think can be really useful depending. You know, what kind of career you want to go into in the environmental field. But I definitely highly recommended if, if you're interested in.

Jessica Steiner 37:51

almost, I mean, I'm probably going to repeat exactly what Louis said, but, and Sherwin and that my time in the field with some of my fondest memories, best stories, and maybe just the panelists and not our attendees will recognize the term, like being able to move the guy over things in the field. cause that was definitely a skill that we learn how to. Stuff from home hardware to, for odd purposes. but I, I think it's, if you're interested in this line of work, it's as important to know whether you do like field work or not, and you're not going to know unless you do try, field work, definitely isn't for everyone. And there are a lot of jobs out there that, that call for sort of those long days with biting insects and all sorts of weather conditions. And you're not going to know. Yeah, it might sound like your dream job, but you're not gonna really know that's for you until you've tried it. cause it isn't for everybody. and I think back to something Larysa said. Earlier on in this hour around looking at those jobs that you aspire to and the skills that you would need for those jobs and internships can be a really good way to acquire some of those skills that you might be eyeing and, you know, a future permanent job. So they can be a really good way to get some of the fields field skills that you're doing.

Thomas Macauley 39:09

Perfect. Yeah. And I think I kind of like what, boats, I think it was, if I remember correctly, Jessica and Marcy had both kind of touched on this where it's like the field based internships, if you're able to do them are helpful. If that's kind of the job you want. cause I feel like, you know, the, the two kinds of questions in a row were a little. diametrically opposed to a degree, but I think it's a good kind of call out where it's like, if, there are, there are all those jobs in the environmental sector and if you want something that's more field based and hands-on then yeah, those, those field-based internships can be quite helpful and can be informative. And, and, you know, you can find out, I remember, doing, some data collection, research and. I had to like run for every single port college. Cause I was getting eaten alive by mosquitoes. And like, that's not for everyone. And you might not want to, you know, be in the field, having to run with a canoe on your back every time you touch land, because you're going to get eaten by mosquitoes and black flies. And that's something that you won't it's, you know, it's a lot easier to figure that out when you're not, when it's like, when it's an internship. You've signed a contract and it's like a full career. It's a little less kind of like, oh my goodness, what have I done? A little less kind of scary way, but then yeah, the field based stuff is for you. I think I kind of switching between the two questions, I think like, that's okay. There, you don't necessarily need a, an internship to be able to do those other aspects of the job that are equally equally important as we kind of talked. I've got one here from Maharshi. sorry if I said your name wrong. but the question is, so, so fun to attend this webinar. Thank you. I am a fresh graduate of environmental of an environmental course from Sudbury, and I would like to know how an international student can get experience. cause the government summer internship program is not for international students. It's more for like Canadians. so yeah. How, how kind of looking at someone who's an international student having to Canada? what are some avenues for them to get experience? Yeah. Perfect. I'll toss it to.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 41:05

at at least in, in my kind of sector in the ecologists restoration world, in certain certain organizations have programs that, that helped out. So at Toronto and region conservation authority, who's a neighbor of ours at. River, they have a program called the payer program that's specifically for, for, international trained people. Now this is, this is a different situation, I guess, with someone being, trained in Sudbury, but they're specifically designed for, for, to help out in that way. we mentioned it before with the volunteering and networking. That's a way to really, Meet people. and, and, and especially with some of the volunteer events, not just events, but volunteering with organizations where you can, of course is, A, this is for everyone too. You got to meet people. if you volunteer with, for, for restoration field, you can volunteer with restoration groups and actually do the restoration when you can. Right. and there's different capacities. So, the. You could show up and plant trees, or you could volunteer in a higher capacity if you can. And, help them plan those tree planting events or restoration events. So, and you start meeting people. It's all about the networking, right? Some of these organizations that, there's professional. Who who joined too. So society of ecological restoration, and that gives you FaceTime with them. And, and if you're, if you're able to, you know, meet them and, and, show them what you're see all your dedication or keenness, like, seeing someone who's really excited about about things is, is really helpful and makes you excited as a practitioner and maybe look out for that person a little bit more.

Thomas Macauley 43:02

Yeah,

Nusha Keygohbadi 43:02

I just wanted to say too, if you're an international student, if I'm not mistaken, I think if you're on a study permit, there are more opportunities for actually working like on campuses. Cause there's kind of exemptions. If you're. Out on campus versus, outside of campus. So there might be opportunities, to do, you know, research related like Summerfield work for prof's doing, wildlife research or environmental research, or, you know, lab based environmental research that might be, a better, more available to you as an international student.

Thomas Macauley 43:40

Yeah, perfect. I like those, those questions a lot. And, when you were kind of talking sure. When it reminds me as well of, kind of thinking about the question, something that you had mentioned, actually I think during the, the podcast episode, and that was, that like, it's not necessarily always, jobs or, or internships or what have you that are always the important part. that will help you get that job or help you get that interview. Cause I think you mentioned you were able to get a job because you've mentioned on your cover letter that, you like to commute. and like that's not a internship, that's not a different program, but like yeah, kind of we mentioned this even at the start, like kind of valuing your stuff that you might not think is experience is a job. there's value in the things that you like and there's value in the things that you do. I think that helps us. Got to kind of tell your story. You mentioned a bit of your story.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 44:27

Yeah. It's just happy to have someone who listened. Yeah. Yeah. I've gone twice by the way before that. So, and I just, I liked it. I put it on my resume and it got me, it helped get me the job. They saw that. I didn't know, the job had some boating aspects to it that I ended up getting. So, and it was just a whim throwing it on there.

Thomas Macauley 44:53

And I think it's important to remember as well. And this was in, I wish I could pull this knowledge back as well, but this was in one of your podcast episodes. but remembering that the people who are reading the resume. they want to work with people that are passionate. you're not just kind of applying to like a faceless organization. You're applying to a group made up of people who you're going to have to work with. So if you can, mention your interests and be more kind of like inviting in the way that you kind of like talk about your passions. the person reading is going to be like, Ooh, I want to work with this person because this person's passionate and this person seems like they're going to be like fun to work with. No one wants to work with someone who doesn't share passions with them or who is not fun to be around, especially if you're working in, inside in an office or out in the field, getting eaten alive by mosquitoes. Perfect. If there's, if no one else has any questions, I'm going to also talk to our pretty much last question or two, just as we kind of come to 8:00 PM. If that works for everyone on the. Perfect. so this might be like, depending on how fast we get through this question, last kind of question and a half. so the question came from, Kirin and it is what is the best way to contact you? after tonight? if, if the, if the attendees have additional questions, so maybe I'll toss us to, to Jessica first,

Larissa 46:17

if

Jessica Steiner 46:17

folks have questions they can. reach out to wildlife preservation, Canada, even if they just, there should be like a general admin email on our website, wildlife preservation.ca. And if you just asked for me, it will get directed to me. That's probably the easiest if you clicked through there. but have yet being pandemics made email insane. So I will respond as soon as I am able, but I do. enjoy emails from people and have been able to meet folks who are just interested in having a chat and try to make time for that as much as possible. for folks who are really interested in what we do or opportunities with WPC, I, I do try my best.

Thomas Macauley 46:55

Okay, perfect. and maybe I'll pass it to, to Larissa is there might be, if there is a way that they're able to reach out, if that's something that you're fine with.

No one 47:05

I'll

Larissa 47:06

give two options, just cause one's easier to remember. And the other one's left easy to remember. one is just to email me at my own email address, which is just, My first name, then last name, but with a dot. So Larissa dot nitech@ontariodotcaoreasierrabiesatontario.ca.

No one 47:25

Which might,

Larissa 47:25

just feel free to send me an email and the same note that Jessica said, it's email has gotten crazy lately. but I will respond eventually. So if I'm quiet for a few days, please give me some leeway.

Thomas Macauley 47:38

And of course, Sherwin expect people are able to reach it.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 47:42

Yeah. I'll put my email in the chat and or LinkedIn, I check LinkedIn less, but, it's in there and I am very Joseph's. I would love to have rabies@ontario.ca.

No one 47:57

Yeah. You have the good

Thomas Macauley 47:58

one for sure. Easy to remember. and then a new HSA. Sure. Yeah, I'm

Nusha Keygohbadi 48:05

really easy to find. If you just go to the Western university biology website and kind of navigate to the faculty, you can find me and you'll see my email address. And yeah, like Jessica said, email is slow these days. My inbox is a disaster, but, I will eventually reply

Thomas Macauley 48:24

and I'll I'll maybe I'll kind of. I mentioned to everyone as well. just to kind of keep in mind, you can probably find most of our panelists on LinkedIn. it is a social networking site, but just because it's a social networking site, just remember, to be professional in your emails and that, all of our panelists. you know, lovely enough to be able to join us tonight, but they're hardworking people. and so, you know, like they kind of mentioned, you might not get an answer as quickly as you want. but, it's just, you know, be patient, and, be, be tiny, respectful professional, and that's probably the best way to just kind of open up those channels. And then I think, okay, we've got two minutes left. So if my, my two final minutes, I think we'll kinda wrap some stuff up a wrap wrap up the session tonight. once again, I will kind of, sorry, I'm just trying to do two things at once. I will once again, plug our podcast. so just search for, how do I do this and environmental podcast? You can find us on. on Spotify, on apple podcasts, all of our guests here today were, as I mentioned before, guests on the podcast and there's also different links, different ways of, of contacting them or different resources to check out that are kind of specific to themselves and to their jobs in the show notes for all of those episodes. So that's potentially another resource for yourselves to kind of. to these is fine. we have here today. and, other than that, I just want to thank, our attendees for joining today. I'm seeing some comments in the chat saying that you have enjoyed this a lot and unlike some stuff. So thank you so much for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed it. and seriously, seriously, a big thank you to, the panelists to Jessica Sherwin, Nisha and Lou. Thank you all so much for taking time out of your Thursday on this kind of beautiful, June, June evening to share your knowledge and your experience with all of us. It's, greatly appreciated, to kind of like quote, Tiffany, who just kind of sent this in. I wish I had this advice 15 years ago, so thank you for hosting so seriously. Thank you. Awesome. It's never too late. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jessica Steiner 50:24

Perfect. Thank you for having us. This is great.

Thomas Macauley 50:27

Of course.

Sherwin Watson-Leung 50:30

Thanks. It was nice meeting everyone and, yeah, just, honored to be with these other less stress, folks wondering why, why am I here with these really talented people?

50:42

And a huge thank you to new shaft, Sherwin, Larissa, and Jessica for coming back on this podcast and sharing their knowledge with us once again. And of course, to Thomas for. Leading us through it. If you let the format, if you want to hear more panel discussions like this, let us know. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, leave us a comment. Shoot us a message. We would love to hear your feedback. All right. That's all for me. I'll talk to you again next week until then happy trails.