Martyn Ware on Musicianship

From forming the Human League, Heaven 17, and British Electric Foundation to record producer, Martyn Ware is a musical pioneer who has featured on recordings totaling over 50 million sales worldwide.

Martyn founded Illustrious Co. Ltd. with Vince Clarke to exploit the creative and commercial possibilities of their unique 3DAudioScape immersive sound technology in collaboration with fine artists, the performing arts, and corporate clients worldwide.

He is a Principal of Tileyard Education and curates an extensive range of world-class arts events, a Visiting Professor at Queen Mary College, University of London, a member of BAFTA, and a Fellow of the Royal Society for the Arts, an Honorary DSc at the University Of London and is the first ambassador for In Place Of War, and an international activist who helps to fight for the rights of creators and underrepresented people worldwide.

Martyn provides perspective on creativity and his creative process for music-making throughout a career that spans over four decades.

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Transcript

Roy Sharples: 0:06

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, and welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you an industry expert looking for insights? are you growing your career? Or are you and dear friends helping to support your own power? I created the unknown origins podcast to have the most inspiring conversations with creative industry personalities and experts about entrepreneurship, pop culture, art, music, film and fashion. Martin ware is a creative polymath from forming the human lead. Heaven 17 on British electric Foundation, to record producer who has featured on recordings totaling over 15 million sales worldwide. Marketing Marfan funded illustrious Company Limited with Vince Clarke to exploit the creative and commercial possibilities of their unique 3DAudioScape immersive sound technology, in collaboration with fine artists, the performing arts on corporate clients worldwide. He is a principal of tail yard education and curates an extensive range of World Class art events. a visiting professor at Queen Mary College, University of London, a member of BAFTA, and a Fellow of the Royal Society for the arts, an honorary DSc at the University of London, and is the first ambassador for in place of war. He is an international activist who helps to fight for the rights of creators and under represented people worldwide. Welcome, Martin Ware! What inspired and attracted you to become a musician in the first place?

Martyn Ware: 1:59

Well, I have no musical training, I'm self taught, as I am self taught, which is where everything that I'm any good at. And I have obviously got some kind of genetic predisposition to, to music. From an early age, I could always kind of pick a tune up and reproduce that pretty much. And my daughter and my son of inherited this from me. And but we, you know, grew up in a very poor environment. So in Sheffield, so we didn't have any instruments. Until when school he had already learned recorder and stuff, but, but I was always an enormous music fan. And my two sisters who attended 20 years older than me, had a huge record collection, even though we were poor. That was our luxury. We had four books, but we had about, you know, 200 Records. So that's, that was my main entertainment. I was growing, I was thinking about, you know, in the 60s You know, there were only there were only there was only one, two or three channels. Only TV, and they didn't broadcast all day either. So there was really when you're at home apart from the radio, which was generally not great. It was mainly listening to radio Luxembourg under the sheets at night. or listening to records you know, the my sister's bought and which covered a lot of stuff from kind of film soundtracks to Motown to standard kind of pop records from the period and you know, we have Dan set and stuff like that. So while I wasn't playing music at that period, I was obviously absorbing a lot of influences. And then when he came to you know, divino meeting people developing and doing stuff I became fascinated with any kind of sought out records that that had got kind of futuristic sounds on them from you know, anything from good vibrations, but by the Beach Boys to Telstra. Telstar Yeah. Stuff like that. And I kind of had an equal love of kind of weird futuristic soundtracks like the soundtrack to the Forbidden Planet and Space Patrol, and stuff like that anything that's kind of weird, synthesizers. datu. Of course, stuff like that was an enormous influence. And so when I finally got to playing says something I tried to get only hurt my finger, so I didn't do that. And, and then Wednesday, and it was just coincided with the time when kind of cheap synthesizers were coming on or kind of, you know, entry level, at least. synthesizer were coming onto the market. And it coincided when I first got my wage packet, you know, working as a computer operator and bought loaders to fund higher purchase, you know, not loaded stuff. We bought a tape machine and I bought a Roland Sree a Korg 700 s monophonic synthesizer, which has, I think it's 250 quid at the time, which is a lot of money, you know, in 1975. And it kind of developed from there, I just always loved making sound. And then of course, things like, we bought a tape machine and my friends were interested in one of my friends, he and Marcia within the humor league with me, built his own synthesizer out of a kit that he bought from practical electronics. And, you know, we thought that was the future. And we thought rock and roll was dead. You know, of course, that was rubbish. And we love rock and roll as well. And you know, kind of prog rock and, and all the stuff that was happening in the 70s, which is a gut for me. Personally, I thought it was a golden age of music. And we thought I've just been listening to the idiot by the pop. Yeah. And that sounds like the feature to me now. Yeah. But that doesn't have so much in the way of synthesizer, but it sounded very futuristic to me. So it wasn't just about synthesizers, it was about it was about an attitude, which I think part of that was growing up with, you know, with the space race and landing on the moon and looking forward to the year 2000. There's some kind of unattainable thing we'll all be dead by then I'll be 4344 you know, that kind of thing. It was a very forward looking time. In the gutter looking at the stars

Roy Sharples: 6:50

The 1970s witnessed the rapid pace of social change, and a gala terian society, diversity, broad ranging styles and tastes. It was an era that saw the emergence of sci fi cinema epics, such as Star Wars, crime epics, such as the Godfather, psychological dramas, such as One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and musicals like Saturday Night Fever, diverse and stylized music genres. Were also the norm from disco, progressive rock, punk rock, new wave, funk, soul, glam rock, and heavy metal.

Martyn Ware: 7:27

There's been a movement where the 80s has somehow become this all conquering decade of partying and, and, and back in aliah. Yeah, and, and great music. You know, there was some great music in the first half of the 80s a lot of it actually in the post punk phase. But I think, on balance, I prefer the I prefer the general swathe of stuff that came up in the 70s and I have to say a lot of it, going back to Tony Visconti was produced by him, and you know, the whole new york scene, you know, Kraut rock, experimental kind of rock, pop music, and all that it's kind of got a little bit washed away by the perception that punk kind of put a stop to all that and it's a lot of bollocks.

Roy Sharples: 8:19

I agree.

Martyn Ware: 8:20

You know, I did an interview for my podcast with Jerry Casali from Divo. Yeah, depot. It's one of those bands that started like in the early 70s and went all the way through punk and out into new waves really, and post punk and, and transcended all those major kind of earthquake moments in popular music. So, yeah, anyway, I think a reexamination of the 70s is Past is past its do

Roy Sharples: 8:52

Sheffield is a creative city that fuels autonomy, individuality, and the freedom to express manifested through its creative atmosphere and culture of industrious maker and Dewar ethos, where that energy and aesthetic has been channeled through the arts with a thriving music scene, such as the Human League, heaven 17, Cabaret Voltaire, and then later, pulp malaco and the Arctic Monkeys. Also its modernist architecture, most famously, the parkhill housing estate inspired by the Corbusier a streets in the sky. And the spirit of that modernist and futurist sensibility, I think was really captured sonically within some of the earlier recordings of your band; The Human League,

Martyn Ware: 9:41

The podcast I've been doing recently I just had a celebrate tree weekend of cabaret Voltaire's influence on the whole thing. And they were like our mentors almost at that point. And listening to Chris Watson talk and rich and and Mel, Steve malodor. Talk, they both sing the same. We're all singing from the same song sheet, which is basically, we were deliberately trying to make anything that was ostensibly industrially influenced. It's just that we grew up in that, you know, with it surrounding us. Yeah, no sounds were as common places as birds on the trees. Yeah. would be for some kind of hippie band in the countryside. So I mean, you literally walk through the center of Sheffield and you'd hear small kind of they call them little maesters shops. You're like small producers, finishes of cutlery or knives or whatever. And easier grinding sounds all the time. You'd hear a night I mean, particularly still summer's night you could hear the drop forges the sound or the drop forges kind of booming down the valleys in Sheffield, because it's on Seven Hills, like booming down the valleys and the kind of infrasound so almost like a heartbeat. Yeah. And so that obviously, as a child has an influence on you, it's got to I always believe in yourself as mentor. So I just thought everywhere sounded like that. And so I when people go, Oh, yes, he is so creative. And it's so unusual. Well, it's just, I believe, in terms of music you are in terms of making music you are what you eat, you know, you are a product of your environment. And I say this to people. I'm not teach music. Now. I teach an MA course in songwriting, and production. And I say to my students all the time. You know, if you want to make music that appeals to people live in cities, you got to live in a city and produce it.

Roy Sharples: 11:54

Yeah.

Martyn Ware: 11:55

I mean, he's not, you know, it's no, we I can, but there's one salient example of this we, with Henson teen, when we, when we did that, we were encouraged to use virgin zone studios, and one of the studios was called the manor, which was actually a manor house which Richard Branson owned. And he converted it and it had a accommodation obviously, and beautiful grounds go kart track, and a swimming pool, and all all the above, you know, inglenook fireplaces, all that stuff, but he, you know, he had a fully, you know, fully equipped state of the art studio in there, and encouraged us to use it. So when he tried to give a discount rate on it, and, you know, it's residential studio, you can stay there. And, you know, we were there, I think we're booked in meant to be booked in for a month, and we lasted about four days, before we realized that, you know, by which time would realize that the music that we were creating from scratch was pastoral. Yeah. And, and was very kind of chilled, and there was no real incentive to be in the studio, we'd rather be out in the swimming pool, you know, and then the go kart track and, and, you know, doing whatever. So, you know, I'm very much of the opinion that you have to be in the heart of where it's happening

Roy Sharples: 13:17

Time, place and occasion is key to influencing what you manifest and what is inside and around you in everyday life and then transcending the ordinary and routine into something that has value. By putting things together that's never been done before, by connecting the past and the present to create something new. What does being a musician mean to you?

Martyn Ware: 13:44

What's the cliches you can find a job that you love? You'll never work another day again, is that one. I mean, I've often been exceptionally lucky because I grew up in a time where record companies are willing to take a risk on creativity. And now the opposite is true. It's all very much about conforming largely. Yeah, I mean, you see, you see the occasional, you know, kind of worldstar you know, emerge from the mass of material there is and it's usually because they have a unique take on things. You know, somebody give an example like Frank Ocean, for instance, came for that he made his first album in his bedroom, because he didn't really he wanted to express his inner drive rather than just sign to a record company. And create a you know, something that will be controlled by them. So and then of course, so since it is six as soon as it's successful, you know, as they say success, as many friends and family has known All of a sudden the record companies are swarming around him, and you know, and so on and so forth. And then the challenge is to maintain your creativity, through through the pressures that are put on. And that I always again, you know, urge urge, urge my students to be as daring as possible in the first instance, because that's how you're going to get above the, the static and the mass of people who are making stuff now. I mean, there's probably, I would say, 100 times more people making music at home now than there ever was in studios in the 80s. It more, maybe 1000s,

Roy Sharples: 15:42

The result of the democratization of technology that has made it easier, accessible, affordable, and more convenient for people to make music!

Martyn Ware: 15:52

Yeah, we buy you buy a laptop, you know, within 10 minutes, so you can download? Well, if you buy an apple laptop, it's got GarageBand on it. Yeah. You know, you can create drag and drop compositions on that in, in half an hour. Yeah, I remember my son who's, who now writes the most amazing stuff, using orchestral samples and stuff, full scale exaggerates and stuff. But he started when he was 12 in the scouts. And he said, I want to get my creativity badge that. And I said, Oh, that's good. What are you going to do? said? I'm going to do some music on GarageBand and said, What do you want me to kind of walk you through it? You know, do you do you want certain I Sir, I can do it, it's fine. And you know, within a day, you'd come up with something was perfectly acceptable kind of dance. Yeah. You know, I mean, not, it wasn't exceptional, but it was, it was as good as you know, 70% of the stuff out there. And he that was his first effort. So it's like, a lot of it is much easier than it's ever been for people. It's a bit like everybody's a DJ at some point as well. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's it's all the tools are there to do it. I'm not decrying the emancipation of the means of production. It's a good thing that people are having a creative outlet. But the problem is, is very easy to make something that's acceptable, it's incredibly difficult to make something that stands out from the crowd.

Roy Sharples: 17:27

True creatives are the outsiders looking in the rebels with a cause. To be one, you must be comfortable taking a stand against oppressive forces, under particularly in your opinions and ideas, without fear of retaliation. Creativity entails providing something new to the world, overturning the status quo, by positively impacting people's lives, and helping society advance. It means embracing originality and making unique connections between disparate universes, past and present, to light the way into the future. As a society, we've got mesmerized by technology, and being fooled into believing that it is the answer is not. And as john Lasseter from Pixar once declared, that computers don't create computer animation, any more than pencils, create pencil animation, what creates is the artist. The key is the intelligent application of technology, to unlocking human ingenuity for the greater good. By pushing society forward, ethically and responsibly. Thought has affected popular culture. When I look back, and I'm probably taking this more from a British and American perspective, is in terms of social and cultural movements, that have influenced change in a way that's redefined how people play music, how people listen to music, and change fashion in terms of how people dress, their haircuts, and what they wear. And that the jargon they use, arguably, the last time that's truly happened, has probably been acid house in the late 1980s. I mean, there's obviously been movements since then, but I believe a lot of it has been regurgitation, and and been quite retrogressive in its approach rather than creating something new.

Martyn Ware: 19:25

Having now traveled now that I've travelled around the world in my various guises, as you know, kind of educators stuff, and charity and charity and stuff. The lingua franca of the world is hip hop. So there's as a move as a worldwide movement, for giving people a voice, however much you may or may not like hip hop, there's absolutely no doubt that he has given disenfranchised communities around the world. an infrastructure to populate it with their own meaning. Unfortunately, a lot of it as being as being culturally appropriated by American commercial imperatives. And so, I did a project for instance, with a charge that I work. I'm an ambassador for called in place of war, which gives young people opportunities in place of places of conflict. And I was working in a makeshift studio in, in a township in Zimbabwe, a place called maca Koba. And the talent was incredible. I mean, incredible. Like the Zimbabwean version of hip hop, they, they only wanted Whitney say, this is what we did, we went there for a week, and said, we're gonna make an album in a week, you know, just whatever music you want to play could be, you know, traditional inspired, or it could be whatever you want to do anything. And, you know, I think 15 of the 16 artists that came forward, were basing their whole thing on hip hop. But it gives them a voice from within their community where they had non previously, because all their lyrics were talking about their life experience. And so, if you're talking about movements, I would disagree with the about if we're talking from a UK perspective, yeah, possibly. Although, I would also argue that even within the UK, I'm not an enormous fan of, you know, of a two step and, you know, garage and all that stuff. I mean, there's some good stuff come out of it. But under later versions, you know, grime, and yeah, however, whatever the latest hip term is, for a variation on it. But you know, I mean, I live in London, so, you know, you can switch on, I've never listened to any more. But if you switch on the FM frequencies, there's always a dozen pirate stations playing that shit 24 hours a day. And a cut in there's no, it's very anonymous music and I find that it's a problem because that's why I like I personally like, hip hop in all its forms because at least people feel like they are giving an expression to their inner thoughts, either through poetry, lyrics, or through the music they're creating. But going back to the Zimbabwe thing, the reason why I brought it up is there was only there was one artists who came in they were really good. There were a small Bandon did it close harmonies, as well as hip hop and stuff. But they based their entire lyrical attitude on, they've been listening to a lot of gangsta rap, you know, quite misogynistic kind of stuff. And they were just parroting what they were hearing in the US. And I stopped him halfway through the first song, we play for him and said, I'm not gonna put this, this is not going to go on the album. So unless you can come up with some other material, there's not miss opportunistic, let's not saying the N word, every single line. That's not, this is not an authentic expression of where you're at issue trying to make issue trying to get rich. And then when nobody ever taught him like that before this kids, right? So there's like 1819, I said, you need to go out and look in the mirror and think about this. Think about how you can express yourself properly, not just through imitating. So this all comes back to you our way. You know, you're where you come from. And that's why he pops, you know, a great vehicle for it, in my view. What is your creative process, in terms of how do you dream up ideas, develop those ideas into concepts, and then bring those concepts to actualization? It's kind of changed over the years, because obviously, you know, with the advent of really powerful digital audio workstations. The biggest revolution has been, you know, obviously virtual synthesizers for me. And you know, being able to create everything inside the box if you wanted to. Not the least of which is because you can work on something. He can create a vibe with a rhythm or in multiple instruments. get to a certain point where you stop feeling inspired, inspired anymore. If the point where you start feeling like you're going through the motions. Just stop and start another thing or go back to a thing that you've been doing previously. And it Doesn't it take you forever to read it to get back? It's instantly recallable. So the this, I think the most revolutionary thing is that you're able to work on, on, you know, I mean, I've probably got 25 pieces of music in development at the moment of various stages. And I do see quite a lot of stuff to brief now as well, because I get asked to do quite a lot of kind of installation, you know, sound installation work because of my 3d sound system work. And that gives me just as much pleasure as writing pop songs, they're more pleasure, broadly,

Roy Sharples: 25:39

What do you believe is the key skill to be a musician?

Martyn Ware: 25:43

If you don't have an ear for music? If you got here a piece of music, and, and kind of understand how it's affecting you, that's the biggest thing you need to really learn for yourself. And that comes with experience and kind of understanding how you emotionally respond to, to a piece of music. And that doesn't mean just pop music, you know, any music? classical, you know, what? I don't like the term world music, but music from around the world? Yeah. Does it emote? Does it have an emotional impact on you? Okay. Second question. It's like a flow diagram. If it has an emotional impact on you. Why? Then you have to start digging a bit deeper into what is it that appeals to you about this. And the problem for me when the 90s, for instance, in the UK, and pretty much in the Western world, in general is a lot of a lot of the promotional activity and success got appropriated by the dance community, in terms of radio. Certainly, on Radio One, for instance, it did in the UK, and around the world, you know, I like dance music, but it just became too powerful. And so the, the, the, the, the, the skills, the, the skills that are handed down, of songwriting structure, and things that emotionally engaged with you started to become second, secondary, to beats in inverted commas. And so I always try to encourage people and I, you know, it made me very reflective being a teacher, of course, it does that. Because you have to constantly assess what you are telling people is your opinion, and why and you got to justify it. So my justification is the only means outcomes with collusion, the only music I'm interested in, is, is music that emotionally engages me. And of course, we are, we are different people at different stages of our life. So I'd say authenticity is very important, or authentic intention of the artist. And then, of course, you know, the skill of the recording and the performance. And you know, some people are live live and their recordings just don't match it. And some people are loved the recordings, and live doesn't match it, and so on and so forth. I also love a load of and I think the new generation have been like this as well, the weight of, of instrumental music, accompanying TV and film, and the standard of composition for those because of the proliferation of content on Netflix, Amazon, whatever, Apple TV, the amount of stuff that's been commissioned is gigantic compared to where it used to be. Yeah, I mean, so it means that a lot of young people are interested in music are actually have playlists on Spotify, or YouTube or whatever. That portion equal way to things like, you know, key musical pieces in films that you've seen, or some of them even DJ live. I've been to several of those. And so I think we're moving into a different phase now. I think we're moving into it's not just about pop music anymore, in fact, to a certain extent. Pop music is a problem. Excuse me, sorry. But I think I'm quite optimistic that the future is more about a kind of convergent creativity around incidental music, emotionally, music that's specifically designed to manipulate emotion. I Most stuff, if he didn't do that job in, in a film or TV show, it's not really working. So you've got to acknowledge that's part of the whole scene, or else all you're going to do, or we're going to do and all my students are going to do and creators all over the world are going to do is just copy what's currently successful in the charts. And what are the charts mean anymore? You know, I can tell you is number one, I've got no interest in I am dad for probably 20 years. And that's sad, you know, it means that basically, is not a diet guys thing anymore. It's just, you know, it's just metrics. Yeah. And it's a bit like, you know, a young creative person who wants to be successful be just as well off posting a 15 spelling snippet on tik tok. And, and, and, and then monetizing the views that they get, you know, I'm not saying Oh, he sounds like old bloke moaning. I'm not I'm just I just look traditional songwriting. And, you know, that whole thing is very futuristic. Yeah. But it's not particularly my cup of tea. But I'm not decrying it, because it's not my generation, Based on the lessons learned to date. What advice would you give to an aspiring musician, in terms of what are the keys to success, and the pitfalls to avoid? Resilience is the main one! If you easily discouraged, it's not for you. Because, you know, there probably been 100 different occasions in my career where, where I've had not max. Um, so 40 years, to be honest, but and when you're on a roll, you know, when you're your most successful period of your career, you obviously got to make hay while the sun shines, then he tends to tend everything tends to be positive, because they're really wanting you to succeed. Because they can either against some kudos for being associated with you, or make money out of you, as well. So that's not a problem, when you successfully it's when you can't have been the in between periods, that you've got to be resilient. And sometimes people go, well, it's not for me. It's not for me, so people duck out for a while, I mean, I was just Okay, so who was in the humanly is no friend of mine, used to be in the results. And, you know, he just basically stopped working with the family one day, in, announces is leaving, now did the band and went to got married to a woman went, you know, went to live in Australia for six years, you know, or, particularly with female artists, a lot of them, you know, if they have children they want obviously, they want to devote their lives to them for a while yams, with film stars, obviously, as well. So, you know, you've got to be resilient, you can you've got to look at your, I would say, look at your career in the long term. You know, if you are just going, right, all I want is to be famous. That's a pretty sad, it's a sad ambition, frankly, because that is really ephemeral. That's like saying, I want to the biggest carton of popcorn I can get, well, when it's finished, you're gonna feel sick. You know, what do you really want to I'm not going to stretch that metaphor anymore. The what, what you really need to do is to look medium long term. And, and my, the best advice I could give is, you know, be an artist. Think of yourself as an artist, first and foremost, do what you do from an authentic place within yourself, express yourself authentically. Be daring. Don't try and imitate people. But I acknowledge that you you will inevitably, nothing. Everything's pretty much been approached in some direction or other. So don't feel self conscious about absorbing influences, but don't imitate lock stock and barrel, you know, lambda worse for this is EDM, you know, it's like, a lot of my students I spent in the first year the ones that are meant to I spent, you know, the early sessions just disavowing them as the idea that if they stick to a particular formula, they're going to be massively successful. Because that's not the case. And then, you know, craters ambitions have to be bigger than that if they're going to have a long career. It's that simple. You got to look at a massive range of different influences. You You know, um, when I was starting the Human League, my influences were ranging from disco, Kraut, rock, prog rock, classical music, this is from somebody who didn't read or write music, by the way, experimental computer music, you know, kind of music from around the world, weird, kind of tribal rhythms, from different continents, etc, etc, etc, there was ours be as eclectic as possible, is my advice that will always serve you always, no exceptions,

Roy Sharples: 35:39

Be open minded, and diversify across multiple domains, embrace change with curiosity, and always keep moving forward and evolving, reject conventions, constantly analyze, and question and challenge the status quo in the everyday life by providing an alternative and bringing it to life. People who achieved greatness do not fit a formula or follow a structure, they break the mold by following their own path, and manifest their inner feelings about the world by promoting their innate point of view. And using their talent to craft poetry in a world where there is only prose and grace the world with with their art, what's your vision for the future of music,

Martyn Ware: 36:25

These are really difficult questions! My vision for the future of music is quite dystopian, in terms of popular music. And I'm, I'm a big champion of, of bespoke artistic expression. And so much of creativities is now kind of aiming towards efficiency almost. And you know, look at look, it breaks my heart. But look at the way that radio one, yeah, selects the playlist. Now, it's nothing to do with the music at all, is purely metrics. They all they do is they have a bunch of assistants who trawl internet all the time looking for people with the most, the most hits on their, on their YouTube channel, whatever. And I just say it's incredibly sad. Because all of us, that's like going, it's whether people like people like the public. I mean, radio is not that relevant anymore. People create their own radio stations now, no, but it does have an impact, you know, on radio, TV, worldwide, whatever playlists, you know, is all aiming towards a kind of averaging out and kind of blending out of the whole thing. So ultimately, if you follow down that path, you're gonna end up with compositions that all sound very similar. And he's happening. If you look at the, you know, if you can be bothered looking at the top 22 charts in the US, UK that there's not much to choose really is very little that stands out, I think. So I'm a big supporter and advocate and what have you for individuality. And for organic fit, this is strange coming from somebody who made their career out of electronic music, more or less. I'm a big advocate for an organic approach. And, you know, a big influence on me is Brian Ito, who hopefully is going to be one of my guests soon on my podcast.

Roy Sharples: 38:43

I look forward to that.

Martyn Ware: 38:44

And yeah, and he had such an influence on me in terms of going it really struck a chord me when he went and one of the things he used to say regularly was, you know, you've got to acknowledge the beauty of accidents. You got to embrace randomness. You've got to create a situation where you're creating music, right? Whether it's electronic or in any shape, or form where you don't iron out the creases. And unfortunately, we live in a completely crease free popular music world at the moment. And I I love that. And I really do. I would just say again, good sky max. I'm doing research on Tony Visconti at the moment, I was listening to nightclubbing you know, the Iggy Pop tune, which I love. In fact, we did a COVID version, it would do the humanly and there's all sorts of odd and I'm pretty sure accidental sounds that are in the mix quite loud. Yeah. Whereas nowadays, if you're looking at a dish Audio Workstation number multitrack, on logical whatever Pro Tools, the temptation is to look at something that doesn't look regular, or right and just get rid of it, or to put everything in tune, or to put or to, you know, to quantize all the beats, or to make any just he takes all the fun out of it for me. So I'm listening to like nightclubbing, which is just like a drum machine thing. Slow drum machine. And there's loads of weird sounds coming in now. And there's bits of things that sound a bit like a mistake, and that's the shit I love. Yeah. I don't care if it makes me sound old fashioned. I don't like, you know, perfection is not something for me to aspire to, I'm afraid. I know, being one of those people. I like I like messiness. In 2000, I started a company with this love from Eurasia, called the illustrious to exploit this new software that we designed for moving spans drown in three dimensions. On on, so we've done like, nearly 70 major projects around the world, in the last 20 years. A lot of them gigantic, things like the entire Millenium bridge, for instance, the full length of it, and a giant square in the center of Mexico City. And we've done just a huge amount of stuff. So if people want to go and have a look what we've been doing, it's interesting. It's illustrious company.co.uk. And it tells you about all those projects. And what that has taught me is that the beauty of sound in space is part of the future. And I've always advocated for a kind of future, which is a bit like the kind of holodeck on Star Trek. You know, wherever that series is, where they have the holodeck, and the idea of replacing reality. Now, I'm not a big fan of VR, I prefer AR at least, you know, I like the idea of augmenting the outside world rather than replacing it. But, but even more, what comes to the conclusion is, it's really nice to be in. Either in indoor or outdoor space, where, particularly with sound, you can augment what's going on. So say for instance, we did a big installation in an ancient forest for a thing called force of imagination in Bath. And we augmented this beautiful natural environment, which is about 100 meters square play speakers all over the place and created a 3d sound impression. And we changed it into a Madagascar Madagascan rain forest. Even though it's, you know, just on the outskirts of Beth. And in addition to that, we created some recordings of different insects from that environment, put them on a speaker on top of some kind of hard hats. And we have a one insect per speaker with n speakers attached to the hat and the kids could wear the hats. And it had on the front what the insect was. So the kids could participate in this magical world in sound. And it was called the installation was called diamond insect. And it was massive success, stuff like that, you know, the idea of building imaginary worlds in people's minds using not just sound, but nowadays, you can do projection mapping, and even haptic can tactile kind of control things where you can move things around in space. I love all I say is, that's the future to me. So I'm less or not, I am still very interested in musical composition in the future. Just as interested in possibly more so in the way that all these the worlds of immersive theater and, and light, impressionistic, light, 3d, immersive sound three dimensional sound, interaction, and people in real physical space, creating new environments and reacting to different environments. I think that's the future.

Roy Sharples: 44:38

Be fearless in your expression, by turning your imagination into art, by looking left when others are looking at seeing the unseen by creating the unexpected, with taste style, and inherent messiness, with an inner desperation and persistence by swimming courageously against the tide in search of the authentic and you have been listening to the unknown origins podcast. Please follow subscribe, rate and review us for more information go to www.unknownorigins.com