Lexie Smith
Welcome to the pitching and sipping podcast, where we talk PR trends and tips over sips and meet a wide range of incredible founders, PR pros and members of the media. I'm Lexie Smith, a former workaholic VP of PR and marketing turned to time entrepreneur, founder of the PR ink business NPR coach, new mama and self proclaimed connoisseur of puns, pizza and wine. I'm a huge believer that knowledge is power and kindness never goes out of style. Think of this show as a way to uplevel your business and career over happy hour. Now let's get to pitching and sipping.
Lexie Smith
LC Ogletree is an independent journalist covering travel, food design and golf. Her work has appeared in various print and digital outlets from Midwest Midwest living and Conde Nast Traveler to The Wall Street Journal and food and wine. Together with her husband, Derek, she's also the co founder of pitch craft, a journalist led membership platform helping PR pros build relationships with freelance writers and editors, and the national consumer lifestyle space. So Kelsey, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to be hosting you, especially considering how busy your life is these days. So let's start off for everyone listening. Where is home base? Well, thank you for having me, Lexie. It's a pleasure to be here. I am currently based in Florence, Alabama, which is just about two hours south of Nashville. Okay, I you know, the one category in school where I was not perfect was geography. So I don't think I realized on a map how close you were to Tennessee, which is probably dumb, and I probably shouldn't have shared that on this podcast. But that was a little little geography lesson for me. Okay, so I know, if I had asked you this question, even like six months ago, it would have been different. But what do you like to do for fun these days? Well, that's a great question. Like, see, I just had a baby boy named Asher, our first baby in April. So we are fully consumed with new parenthood at the moment, but loving every minute of that. And outside of being a mom, I love to cook and bake and play golf and just be out in nature as much as I can. And I love your little boys name Asher because my little girl is ash Lin. So I'm oh my gosh, that's so cute. Well, I have to get them together sometime. No. So congrats. So four months, how old is he now? He just turned three months just just turned three months. So anyone who has had a child, Let's all bow down to the fact that you are showing up. You look beautiful. You are on camera right now and you are not stumbling over your words. That is insane. I was not functioning at that level when Ashley was three months old.
Kelsey Ogletree
It's definitely a whole new ballgame with a baby in the picture. That's for sure. Definitely not as organized as that used to be. Nope. And I am not a new mom anymore, because Ashlyn is 15 months, but I still feel like I am in many ways, and it gets new Mom Brain and I'm like, How long? Can I get away with saying that? I don't know. But you are in it.
Lexie Smith
Okay, so we're going to go back and review some of your career history. Right? So if we were to pull up your LinkedIn page, or if you were to give us a cliff notes, overview, where did your journalism career begin, and then kind of walk us up to today?
Kelsey Ogletree
Sure. So I got my degree in broadcast journalism from Carroll College in Montana. And then I went on to Northwestern to get my Master's in magazine journalism from Medill in Chicago. And from there, I went on to be a business editor at McKinsey and Company. And then I switched gears a little bit and went into the luxury lifestyle space, working as an editor for modern luxury in Chicago, and then Atlanta, and eventually ended up as an editor at a meetings and events trade publication, which is where I really started getting into writing about food and travel, which are huge parts of that industry. And when I got laid off from that job in 2017, I decided to try freelancing kind of in those niche spaces of food and travel and got my first few violence and national publications and really just took off from there. And I've been working as a freelance writer ever since. So about six years now. And in 2020, I kind of started the foundation of the business that officially was founded in 2021, called Pitch craft which is a membership platform for publicists to connect on a relationship level with writers and editors.
Lexie Smith
Okay, so talk us talk to us all about pitch craft because in guys I did get a sneak peek about the platform and it is incredible and I'm so excited about it and I'm so excited if you guys this
Lexie Smith
is the first time you've heard of this, because it's incredible. And I'm going to stop talking to us all about pitch craft.
Kelsey Ogletree
Sure. So one thing that I have always kind of followed in my freelance career is just the notion of building relationships with publicists, because I really believe in my heart that there are three sides to every story. And that includes, you know, the editors, the writers and the publicist. I think that a good publicist is such an integral part of storytelling, especially when you're working with someone who, you know, is hoping to share the story of a small business or you know, a person or a product that they work with, and are just a really important partner to freelance writers and helping to see these stories through to fruition. So, you know, I've always kind of prioritize those relationships with publicist. And when the pandemic came, I started hosting these, you know, Zoom calls with publicist and writers to all have a forum to talk about the state of pitching what was happening, what were publications doing, you know, how should we be pitching around the craziness of the world at that time. And eventually, I didn't want the spotlight to be on me, I didn't want to be the person giving all the answers, I wanted to bring other freelance writers and editors into the fold, and really just serve as like the connector behind the scenes of all that. So that's where the idea for pitch craft kind of started happening. And this sort of started in the early stages as workshops where we would bring in for freelance writers once a week for a month on a particular topic, say like travel. And they would answer a series of questions in a discussion that I moderated about how they like to be pitched, what they were working on, you know, what was their personal brand as a writer and publicists could pay to be part of that. I soon realized after doing that for a while that people really wanted to continue the community that was being built in those spaces. So beyond just having, you know, a monthly workshop, I wanted to turn this into a year round community and wanted something to go much deeper than a social media group or something like that. So the idea for pitch craft was kind of born out of that. And we worked with the developer to create this entirely custom built platform for our our company that we kind of relaunched in December 20 to 2022 as the brand new platform. And our hallmarks of pitch craft are weekly interviews with freelance writers to get to know them and be able to pitch them really specific ideas for what they're looking for. Monthly pop up discussions where we bring on editors from national publications to talk about a specific,
Kelsey Ogletree
you know, specific topic type of publication, for instance, we just had one focused on pitching weddings related stories. So we had an editor from the New York Times, destination idu. And brides join us to talk about that.
Kelsey Ogletree
And then we also have breakouts every Friday for just our members, which is really the community aspect of pitch craft. Most of our members are independent publicists are from small agencies. So they just really value that one hour together every week to be able to bring a challenge to the group or say, you know, I'm really struggling with this client, or I had this really strange thing happened, can anyone help me talk through this. So those are kind of the hallmarks of pitch craft. And then we also have a lot of other resources related to like E commerce, editorial calendars, media kits, things like that. But I think you know, the foundation of this is really the community and the relationships aspect. So if someone wants to learn about how to learn more, or explore what this membership would look like, two part question, where do they go? But also, do they have to be a publicist or writer or is this something also, business owners can apply to be a part of? Yeah, that's a great question, Lexie. So on our website, which is just pitch craft dot media, you can book a tour of pitch craft with us, my husband and I are the co founders, and we do all of them personally, and show you around to make sure that it would be a good beautiful fit before anyone just join. So you can't just go in and become a member, you have to have that call with us so that we can make sure it's a good fit for you as well as us.
Kelsey Ogletree
And then I'm sorry, I just forgot your second question. Now.
Lexie Smith
You're fine. I can. Can you like do you have to be a publicist or writer? Could it be?
Kelsey Ogletree
Oh, yes, I'll blame it on the the new Mom Brain, right. So you do not have to be a publicist. But I think that is the majority of our membership. However, we do have some small business owners who are part of our membership, who at least have some baseline understanding of media or have done some pitching before. If you're starting out really fresh as a business owner wanting to connect with the media. I don't think we our platform is the best fit for you. But we are launching an events division this fall. Our first event is in September. And those are going to be a series of regular workshops each year where we will have a select number of small business owners who are able to take part in an in person workshop with us, as well as freelance writers and editors and really learn how to craft their message and be able to write pitches that get them covered in these media outlets.
Lexie Smith
What is Is there like a city lineup? Or how can we get that on our radar? Yeah, it's a great question. So our first event is in Birmingham, Alabama in September, and we already sold out for that. But we are going to be looking at adding more cities for q4, and then a lot more in 2024, as well. So stay tuned, we will be posting those on our social media accounts as we confirm the city's special requests for Ventura, California, I will find it. I don't know if they're here, but they must be. I'd love to do that. And actually, for anyone watching on YouTube, you're going to notice that I have a very different background, I was just giving a Ventura shout out, but I'm actually in Portland, Oregon. Today, we're at my family home plug for you, too. Okay. So you are a journalist, you're now a founder, your new a new mom, you're a pro publicist, journalist, which Thank you, by the way for being positive. There's whole Twitter threads bashing publicists. So thank you for being part of the positive movement. In learning more about you and kind of brainstorming what topic I wanted to go into today, I started reading some of your writing, right? And I came across an article you published called, if you're not pitching writers on content marketing, you should be here's why. And this is what I want to dive into today. So first, maybe it would be helpful to break down what you mean, when you're talking about content marketing in this lens.
Kelsey Ogletree
Sure, so when most people think of pitching the media, or just pitching in general, they're thinking of these consumer outlets that we all know, you know, think Better Homes and Gardens, Midwest, living, Southern Living, travel and leisure and things like that. But there is so much more opportunity than that these days, because every brand out there is producing amazing content, for the most part to you know, drive traffic to their site and provide resources to their customers and clients. So by content marketing, I'm talking about, you know, blogs, journals, a lot of it will live under like the Resources tab of whatever company is producing this.
Kelsey Ogletree
So for example, just think about like, say, take a particular industry, like maybe we just say, travel, for instance, what is a service or a product or something that the travel industry would use. So we can make a big list from that. But one example that I was thinking about was like rental cars. That's a big part of travel. Right? So what are some companies in the rental car space? Well, one that came to mind was Turo, which is kind of like the Airbnb for cars. So if you search Turo blog, they have a blog called Field Notes where they're publishing regular stories about travel and cars. So that could be an option to pitch. You know, if you're thinking about the travel space, have something that can be a fit for road trips, you know, looking to things like that, that are content produced by companies, but that reads very much like editorial and is not, you know, it doesn't feel like it's just promoting the brand.
Lexie Smith
You know, that I send out a community newsletter roundup every Tuesday chock full of resources, free media kit, downloads, event invites, journalists, contacts, visibility opportunities. Basically, if you're not on the list, hit pause and sign up. It's super simple. Go to the PR bar inc.com/newsworthy. That link is in the show notes. Okay, back to the show.
Lexie Smith
Now, for those opportunities. Are there any suggestions you have on how to necessarily vet the legitness of a given bog? Right, because while I love my website, Pierburg inc.com. I know it carries a very different way than a HubSpot. So how do you suggest figuring out if a given blog or resource part of a website is worth your time to pitch? Yeah, well, I think there are a few things that you really want to look for.
Kelsey Ogletree
kind of coming up with the information on their own and not linking to anything. So you want to make sure like, if you're a publicist, with a client, you want to make sure it's worth your time to pitch these writers because they want to actually be able to mention your client by name and ideally lead to them, rather than just, you know, taking the information they share and putting it into a blog as if they already knew that information, just as the writer.
Lexie Smith
Yeah, no, that's that's a great point. I'm wondering, too, you know, I think we're more well versed in identifying traditional outlets. There's tons of resources out on the market, from, you know, the decisions and the mechanics of the world to the pitch crafts, which are, were up and coming and the Crowley's Is there any resource to date that you know, of that would be a good place for someone to be able to effectively research?
Lexie Smith
Maybe different sites that have these content marketing blogs?
Kelsey Ogletree
Hmm, that's a really good question. I don't have an aggregate resource like that. But I think you know, just thinking through the, the industry that you're most interested in, and then kind of thinking about, like, what companies are associated with that, for the people who are part of that industry, there's a good chance that they are going to have like a blog or website or something that is a good fit for that. So I do have some examples. If you're interested in hearing about any of those, I would love examples.
Lexie Smith
And also, here's a call to action for someone to invent that aggregate please and send me the link. Okay. Yes.
Kelsey Ogletree
Okay, we're working on that, too. So a good example. So the company us foods, a lot of people might be familiar with them. They're one of the largest like food Suppliers and distributors to restaurants in the United States. Well, you may not know that US foods actually has a magazine, print and digital called Food fanatics. That is a beautiful publication covering all kinds of trends in the food industry. So that's a great example of, you know, content marketing is, I think, kind of described as like content supporting a brand's overall mission that's not overtly salesy, and also that is not supported by ads, right, because, you know, traditional magazines are funded by advertisers paying to have digital or print ads as part of it. But content marketing is a whole different game. And not it's not supported in that way. So it has a lot more freedom, I would say. Another great example is Marriott, bonvoy. Travelers, so we all know, Marriott has, you know, hotels and resorts, one of the largest hotel companies in the world. Of course, you can go to Marriott sweb site to book your hotels, but they also have this bonvoy traveler website, which is, you know, like a Travel and Leisure sort of site where they have, you know, the best things to do in Paris, like insider secrets to Rome, like all these different types of stories on there, that are an excellent resource for travelers, and oftentimes, I think, can be even better than, you know, some of the big outlets just because they're not as mainstream and they're able to go really niche with some of their topics. I think it's really interesting too, because a lot of the content marketing will often be assigned to writers by content marketing managers, or editorial teams within these brands, based on you know, what people are searching for on their website. So in this example, for instance, a lot of people are searching for, you know, Miami hotels, well, that might lead their Editorial Manager to say, Okay, we need to produce some more Miami content that we can then use to drive traffic to our site, promote on social media, things like that, and assign some Miami related stories to writers. So I think that that kind of like data driven approach to content marketing can be really cool because you know, why they're doing those stories rather than it just being a good story in itself. You know, there's, there's traffic behind and reasoning behind why they're covering that particular topic. I will say that, you know, for something like this, you need to keep in mind if you have a hotel client, for instance, that you're looking to get covered, and they're not a Marriott brand, you're not gonna be able to pitch your hotel client to write a story on a publication that like specializes in a particular brand of hotel. However, you might be able to pitch you know,
Kelsey Ogletree
A travel agent that you work with or some other kind of travel company or maybe your destination or something like that. So just kind of be mindful if you're pitching a publication in the content marketing space, that whatever it is they're selling isn't a direct a direct competitor to whatever your client is, because that's not going to be a fit for their stories.
Lexie Smith
Yeah, that's a great call out. So are you pitching? Are you but like the brand, or the publicist? Are they pitching the writer of that byline? Or are they trying to find the content? Manager? Who is assigning out how does that process work?
Kelsey Ogletree
Yeah, I mean, I would highly recommend going the route of freelance writers. I mean, I think a great place to start is, if you're a publicists already have, you know, a network of great freelance writers that you work with? Pick five of them and just say, you know, what, what types of content marketing are you doing right now? Like, what brands are you working with? And Could any of my clients ever be fit for these, and chances are, you know, if, say, like, I specialize in travel. So if I am writing about travel, for consumer publications, there's a good chance, I'm also writing about travel in other ways for content marketing outlets, like I mentioned, for like the meetings and events, like there's a lot of opportunity to cover travel in that space, even though a lot of people might not think about that. So I would really say approaching the freelance writers that you already have relationships with and just kind of seeing, you know, how can you expand the ways in which you're working with them by possibly contributing some of your clients expertise, or things like that into some of these other stories they're doing for brands. And I think, you know, one thing that's really worth mentioning is, it's really worthwhile for a freelance writer to do this, because nine times out of 10, the pay is going to be a lot better for these content marketing brands. Like again, they're not driven by advertising. Just as an example, like say, you're doing a piece for a large, like mainstream travel, digital website, you might earn $250, for 1000 word story, versus a content marketing piece for a travel company, you might earn $1,000. So it could be, you know, four times the amount. So I think that that's really, you know, worth noting that, and especially in the travel industry, most travel writers don't exist on travel writing for these mainstream outlets by itself, because the pay is just not there with these major brands anymore. And so a lot of them are supplementing with contributing to these, perhaps less sexy outlets in the same space, but getting paid a lot better for it. And, you know, as a result, they're wanting to incorporate more of the things that PR is pitching them in these types of stories as well, because, you know, I really believe that, for the most part, like, publicists are positive contributors to stories, and they have a lot of great experts and ideas and clients to offer up that can really add to the value of the stories that a journalist is producing for these companies as well.
Lexie Smith
Yeah, and another perspective that comes to my mind on the consumer. And I'm busy right now Trump planning. I'm going to Japan and Korea this fall with my family. And so I don't know much about those areas. So I've been doing a lot of Google searching, searching, and I am getting paywall after paywall when I click on the major national publications, that is, I get it, if I could subscribe and pay every single outlet on this planet, I would. But I'm ending up consuming a lot more of the smaller or off off the beaten path blogs because they're not paid roles. So I do think there's a trend there too, for you guys to think about when you're advising strategy to a client or you're coming up with your own to realize that these blogs are worth your time, because it's harder, a lot of outlets are making it harder for general consumers to read their pieces. So that's a really excellent point.
Kelsey Ogletree
Let's see, I hadn't even thought about that. But it's very true. And also, I think sometimes when you're researching trips like that, like the more niche you can go the better right? Like if you're going to a travel agencies blog, I mean, they're likely going to have much more in depth information then something like a more mainstream like Conde Nast Traveler or something would have as far as actually planning your trip. And just a little side note, if you're hitting a lot of paywalls. There's I don't know if you know about this tool called 12 feet, but it's like, one, two ft.io. And if you paste, it basically helps you get around the paywall to any like, I don't really know how it works, but there's an app and our website is just 12 foot to IO and it is really helpful for reading stories in Utah. No, I have not heard of that. Oh my gosh, okay, that's a whole nother rabbit hole I'm about to explore today. Again, I would like to say I am pro pain publications for their work, they deserve to be paid. However, in the instance where you're really need past that payroll or paywall this that's really, really exciting to learn about.
Kelsey Ogletree
No day of the week to avoid being pitched.
Kelsey Ogletree
Weekends, okay, time of
Kelsey Ogletree
day that you prefer or suggest people to avoid?
Kelsey Ogletree
Really early morning like 6am Central or in the evening like 7pm. Schedule your emails to come at that time. And I'll see at first thing when I log in, and it will be a much lower traffic time in my inbox.
Lexie Smith
Okay, that's great insights. media kits. Do you look at them? Do you want them or no thing in the past?
Kelsey Ogletree
For publications, yes. For businesses, kind of a thing of the past. Okay. DMS on social media. Do you want people sliding into your DMS or email only?
Kelsey Ogletree
I'm okay with it to build a relationship with me but pitches should definitely come through email. And then of social media platforms. Is there one or two you hang out the most on? LinkedIn and Instagram? For sure. Okay. Not I'm okay. Quick squirrel. Do you think threads is going to replace Twitter for journalists? No. Okay. I'm hoping not because I'm taking Twitter. Okay, cool. So, follow up. Are they okay?
Kelsey Ogletree
Once or twice? Yes. Once or twice? Yeah, make sure you make sure you wait at least a week or two in between though. Okay.
Lexie Smith
Do you care if it's a publicist pitching you or a brand. I love both.
Kelsey Ogletree
I love both.
Lexie Smith
pleasantries, meaning like, take a paragraph or a couple sentences to say something personal or do you want them to skip that and just get straight to the point? I think pleasantries are great.
Kelsey Ogletree
As long as they're authentic and actually show that you're following along with you know, someone's life. I think it's really smart because often their writing reflects the stage of life they're into.
Lexie Smith
Okay, and then my last question is regarding subject lines. Do you want them to be kind of straightforward and keyword plugged? Or do you appreciate a good pun? Any advice there?
Kelsey Ogletree
I love it when someone uses a subject line. That could be a potential headline for one of my outlets that would really catch my attention.
Lexie Smith
Okay, boom, love it. Okay, my last and most important question, which again, probably looks a little bit different these days than maybe it did six months ago. But what can we find you sipping alcoholic or non alcoholic Of course.
Kelsey Ogletree
Oh, I love a good French 75 That's one of my go to remind me what's in that?
Kelsey Ogletree
Champagne lemon juice and just like a little sweetener, okay. French 75
Lexie Smith
Last question I have is where can people you know, guys, we will share the pitch craft website in the show notes. But is there somewhere else that you suggest people go if they hear the show? They want to connect with you or reach out? Where should they head?
Kelsey Ogletree
Yeah, I would definitely say connect with me on LinkedIn. I use that every day. Do a lot of posting on there just about building relationships with journalists. Instagram, my handle is KB Ogletree and then you can find more about pitch craft and watch a video about it at pitch craft dot media. Perfect. I want to thank you again and also applaud you for taking the time to show up today. For me and for all the listeners of this podcast. This has been absolutely incredible. Thank you so much, Kelsey. Thank you.
Lexie Smith
Hey guys, if you are enjoying the pigeon and sipping podcast, please do me a huge favor and leave a review wherever you are listening. If you want to connect with me to learn more about the PR bar Inc. You can do so on Instagram Act, the PR bar underscore Inc. Or you can check out my website at the PR bar inc.com Cheers