Lexie Smith
Teresa Bigelow is the founder of boutique agency and career platform Spiral5 over the course of her 12+ career and public relations. Teresa has worked with a wide variety of brands from global media companies to music tech to psychedelics. To tell their diverse stories in the media. Her clients have been featured in the world's leading publications including Fast Company, The New York Times, NPR, Pitchfork, Forbes, TechCrunch, Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today and so many more. As a professional writer Teresa has contributed to Allure, Entrepreneur and Salon. She has been featured in Forbes, Brit+Co and was a PR News Rising Star Under 30, Teresa, Welcome to the show. I'm so freakin excited for our chat today. Before we get into all the nitty gritty Can you please share with everyone where is homebase and what do you like to do outside of work for fun?
Teresa Bigelow
Hmm, okay, so home base is currently Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is kind of a funny story in itself. I moved here with a program called Tulsa remote about four years ago. So I was in New York and then popped on over to Middle America. And but I travel a lot but I would consider Tulsa an anchor and outside of work. Truthfully, Lexi, I do work a lot. I don't have a lot of responsibilities other than my business. I'm childless, pet-less, single. So I actually really enjoy my business and it's a big part of my life. But when I am not working, you'll probably find me hanging out with friends traveling, listening to music, going to shows, dancing, putting on events.
Teresa Bigelow
Yeah, all sorts of stuff, like Tarot and astrology and all the witchy things, all the witchy things I usually ask people, like a trap, like your favorite place for travel, but I kind of we're recording this headed into spooky season. So what would be like, Give me what is something? I don't even know how to phrase the question.
Lexie Smith
What's like a witchy pastime, you said Tarot is that the card reading Tell me more?
Teresa Bigelow
Well, first of all, I listened to your human design. Sound, I love human design. And I wouldn't say that I like sit at home and study human design, but a little bit and also the gene keys. I've gotten into that as well. And the Tarot is, I feel like it's a tool for communicating with our subconscious. So when you lay a spread, you're you're kind of oftentimes you're seeing cards that you you would expect to see. And sometimes you're seeing cards that you haven't expected to see. And that's where the real I would say kind of shadow work comes in. Because you might be expecting something deep down. But you're not really ready to accept it yet. And the tarot kind of is like, Hey, you already know this. This is what's going on. And so listen to your instincts, listen to your subconscious. And it's really just a helpful tool. If you're on the fence about a new job, a client, a person that you might be dating, it can just really add a lot of clarity. And it's it's fun. It's a fun little experiment.
Lexie Smith
And that's the one where you have the card and it's like an illustration and that signifies or like represents something I'm sorry, I'm so
Teresa Bigelow
so now No, I'm sorry, I totally jumped ahead there and assumed everyone knows what the Tarot is. But yes, so I'm probably not the right person to like fully describe the sense of the basics of it, but it is that it's it's kind of an ancient practice. There are a few kind of key card developers I guess you could say. The Ross will have to come back and edit this and I think it's the Roth writer rate or the RW s We'll just put say that there's a couple like key decks. And then those decks all have really like the fundamental tarot cards, which are like the pentacles, the swords, the cups, the Major Arcana, and then the wands. So we'll start over. So there's the wands, the swords, the cups, and wands, the swords, the cups, and the Pentacles. And those all represent different areas of life, whether it's like emotions for the cups. Pentacles represents the earth and kind of like material world, the swords is the mind and the element of air. And then wands is fire and sort of like the element of action and sexual energy and lots of other things. Then you have the Major Arcana, which is like, you've probably heard of the High Priestess, or there's the devil, there's the tower. So for instance, the tower can be really scary, because a lot of times you get it when there's going to be a sudden kind of collapse. So divorces, or Yeah, scary things, but also can be really positive. Because it could just be that one part of your life is really kind of coming to a close a little bit too suddenly. But it always ends up being a positive thing because now you're open to new opportunities and new possibilities. I can see
Teresa Bigelow
then how based on the card, your subconscious and whatever comes to mind, maybe it can kind of be telling in that way. I'm a huge fiction nerd. So these, I don't want to call them practices, concepts, rituals, whatever all the words do come up in a lot of the literature that I read, so you can be more well versed but I do think of often like the tower and don't don't don't like or death's doorstep is there is that the one where there's like a Oh man, I'm going rogue I'm going to rein it back in.
Lexie Smith
Okay, guys, this is not this is not a Tarot episode. By the way. If you guys want more, more of episodes like the human design, where we kind of merge the whoo with the with comms reach out, let me know I am. So game. I really am. But speaking of expertise, to keep us a little bit back on track, I do want to transition into career cliff notes. So besides the witchy stuff, talk us through your career up into today, NPR?
Teresa Bigelow
Okay. Well, first of all, I love the witchy stuff and happy to talk about that at length another time. And it's the Rider Waite Tarot is like the main deck people use just okay. Okay, now. Yeah. Okay. So I kind of got my start in journalism. I went to journalism school. And then I had a couple of interviews in California. So it was in school in San Diego, and I had some interviews between San Diego LA, San Francisco, a few of them in PR, even though I had no idea what PR was at the time, I ended up moving to New York City quite spontaneously, as you do, and you're 21 years old and on an adventure. And then within a few weeks of being in New York, I got a call from a an agency that I had interviewed with in San Francisco. So they were a tech PR agency. And we're growing. So at the time I you know, I just said, Well, I'd moved to New York, do you need anybody here? And they were like, yes, we do. We're starting our first office there. So I kind of was our first employee in the New York office. And that was huge. So I spent two years really learning the ropes in tech PR, which at the time was also like, kind of becoming a thing in itself, the tech industry, the startup culture, all that stuff. And then after a couple of years, I realized that I am not well suited to work for somebody else. I like to be on my own and do my own things. But I also felt like really called into the world. So I went to India, I did my yoga training. I went to Thailand, I kind of went on this adventure. And when I came back to New York, I got I was contacted by a company that I had known previously, which was a music streaming company based between Mumbai and New York. And they were looking for somebody to be their in house PR director. So in the founders, like, Hey, I know you were just in India, how do you feel about moving there for a year? And I was like, Sure. So just a few months after I got back from South Asia, I was packing my bags, went back to India. And N worked out in Mumbai as their global PR director, which also set me on to the path of music PR ended up then starting a consultancy in 2016. This music streaming company was one of my clients we did, we did a lot of PR for their music label. And then I also worked across tech in business. within that timeframe of starting my independent consultancy, I realized that having a community of other independent publicists is crucial So that's when I started Spiral5, really, I mean, that's when the website was launched. But it was very different back then it was really just a community. Very informal. And then yeah, I mean, from a PR perspective, clients wise, we started expanding much more into the music, entertainment, a lot of wellness, and then the psychedelics came around. So by 2018 2019, we were working with organizations and individuals in the kind of emerging psychedelic space. And then in 2020, when COVID hit, it was the right time to really expand Spiral5 as a community for publicists, and then it became the incubator. So today, we are a boutique agency that does offer premium PR services to several clients across culture, innovation, entertainment, and health and wellness. And then we also have the incubator for smaller businesses who need more affordable PR services.
Lexie Smith
Okay, so to pull out, because that was a lot of incredible moments of your career path. Today, you have Spiral5, and Spiral5 has kind of two sides. There's the agency side. And then there's an incubator side. So when I first met you, and this is where when we first met probably in like 2021, or something. And through d&d, maybe I don't, what is life, we met somewhere somehow our our paths collided, and I was guys I was God smashed by what she had created with Spiral5, I thought it was freaking brilliant, I still do. And I was like, Oh, my God, I want to get involved. And then I got pregnant. And then like, life, life got a little crazy for me, but I want you to break down what you've done on the incubator side a little bit more, because I do think it's really unique and really cool and really, really needed.
Teresa Bigelow
Thank you. Yes, that is really our unique kind of agency element for sure. And it is something that we're going to lean more into as we develop and grow, and how and why and how that looks. I'm not so sure yet. But essentially, what I noticed was that we were getting inbounds from clients that couldn't quite afford the full PR fee yet, but they were cool. And they had cool stories to tell. And it was really hard to say no. At the same time, I was recognizing that there are a lot of people who can learn the skills of PR. And it's totally learnable. It's not rocket science, it does involve some baseline sort of soft skills and that are important to have before you start. But I was like, I feel like we could train more people to do PR and then connect the dots between these sort of up and coming aspiring freelance publicists and the startups and small businesses and artists cetera, who need more affordable PR support. So in essence, it's like a democratization effect, where you now open up access to the Art Access to PR, beyond like a full service or, you know, big box agency. And in that process, this, you know, I moved to Tulsa COVID happened, and there was just a need for virtual kind of gathering. And so at around that time, we also developed the first online training. So that's an eight week online training. And essentially, when people go through our incubator, they apply, then they start the eight week training. And then on the other side of that they go through a skills assessment. And from there, they're invited into the incubator where they spend 12 months working with either the clients that they source themselves with our mentorship and kind of coaching, or clients that come to Spiral5 or that we source who are looking for affordable PR, or they are what I say like vertically integrated into the premium agency clients meaning I have an army of trained apprentices who are ready and willing to work, you know, on contract for our bigger clients.
Lexie Smith
You know that I send out a community newsletter roundup, every Tuesday chock full of resources, free media kit, downloads, event invites, journalists, contacts, visibility opportunities, basically, if you're not on the list, hit pause and sign up. It's super simple. Go to THEPRBARinc.com/newsworthy. That link is in the show notes. Okay, back to the show. So let's go back a second and talk about you know, I have a lot of freelance journalists on the show, but I haven't had a lot of freelance or independent PR consultants. And from both the hiring standpoint and the professional standpoint, how would you say or what is the difference between becoming or working with a freelance Answer independent PR consultant versus a firm or going in house.
Teresa Bigelow
Yeah, so I think a key difference would be a you know, price point and affordability and also specialty. So there are definitely firms that specialize in music or entertainment or film or science or pharmaceuticals, you know, and they do an amazing job, they're typically going to be charging 15,000 to $20,000 a month, a consultant is charging, you know, five to 10k a month, and then with our program, even less for the apprentice level. And so that's one key difference. But as long as you're choosing the right person, you're not necessarily sacrificing quality, because when you're working with an agency, you're typically working with an account coordinator and an account executive, you're not working with the CEO. When working with a consultant, you're working with the CEO, so this person is the expert in themselves. And for whatever reason, she just or he, they are they they they're not interested in growing a big firm, myself included, I'm not really interested in having a lot of overhead. But the the level of our clients do often require a team of some sort, which is why the Incubator has been such a interesting kind of modular way of having an agency. But I would say the the key difference is that you're working with an independent person, and then maybe they have an assistant or a couple people working to support them. It kind of feels more like an extension of your team, rather than working with with an agency.
Lexie Smith
Okay, so it's less money and you're getting to work with more of the direct expert, why do you think more people aren't immediately just going to hire independent consultants? Like why haven't they completely like outran the agencies by now? Right?
Teresa Bigelow
I mean, that's kind of a big piece of our mission is to democratize that a little bit. I think a lot of it is exposure, and there are so many independent is that it would be a little overwhelming for for an organization or you know, a company to go like go find that perfect consultant. So your network is really important. Because once they know you as a PR expert in one field or one vertical, then you're much more likely to kind of get in the room for the RFP process than you would otherwise. And it goes for the same with agencies as well, I think a lot of the times that they get, you know, they get the RFP, it's it's because they're, they're just already known in the space, and they're at the events and they're, you know, they're they're just present.
Teresa Bigelow
It's fun joke that I've said 500 times on the show is PR has bad PR, but maybe no pr has bad PR in the sense of maybe just not enough people know about it. And yeah, I think to your point, like when you have a whole agency with, you know, let's think of an Edelman obviously a lot more people know about them, then a great Freelancer named Mary Jo in Texas, right? There's just not as much. Yeah, hour or manpower behind it,
Teresa Bigelow
and it doesn't carry as much gravitas yet. Unless it's like, you know, somebody who's just like tree pain, right? Like, it wasn't somebody who's just her name and itself is a celebrity. The agency's name and brand carries more gravitas. And that still does matter to a certain extent, but not for not for a lot of companies. That's only true of really, you know, like high level clients. It's not true for the, you know, the middle tier where there might have great revenue and are doing really well. But they don't necessarily need to spend 15 to $20,000 a month on PR.
Lexie Smith
Okay, so in terms of when you're working with and again, from both sides, if you're thinking of becoming an independent consultant and or you want to hire one, does the structure of how you work with them differ from an agency in terms of retainer? Is it more? Are they more typically are making generalizations here open to project based work? Is it still retainer based? What have you seen?
Teresa Bigelow
I do you think there's more flexibility with an independent, although most will still work on retainer, because it's just it's, it's the easiest way to to ensure that everything's fair and that there's like an even exchange happening, because PR is, let's face it, it's very values based, like we could get you in the New York Times within three months or three hours. And arguably, it's more valuable if that happens within three hours. Not that that would ever happen. We'll set some expectations there. But you get the idea that it's you know, the value of PR is not based on how many hours you put in, so that's why retainers monthly retainers are make the most sense, rather than any sort of like hourly or project fee. Certainly Uh, with with a independent, there's a lot, they're kind of steering the ship on their own. So if a client does need to just do like, I need a press release out and a three month project for this launch, like the publicist can kind of review and and think yeah, you know I could probably do this as a project Sure why not? Whereas an agency, it'll be a lot harder to have those options?
Lexie Smith
Yeah, I think that's a great breakdown. I'm curious, too. You mentioned earlier, kind of going back to your incubator, that as you're training, the men and women in humans who are coming through your your program, they go through skill assessment. And I'm curious on what skills you think are important for independent publicists or just in PR in general these days to succeed?
Teresa Bigelow
That's a really good question. And it's something that I'm I need to refine, I'm looking to refine, but over, like, let's see, we have guests, we've done two official cohorts and one beta cohort, what I have discovered that we can teach a lot of the, you know, the this the the framework of PR, which are framework is right story, right people right time, the right is always changing, of course. But you can teach people these kinds of story, ideation, skills, and how to write the subject line and all these things. What you can't teach people is how to get on the call with a client who's unhappy and how to navigate that phone call with confidence with conviction, how to stay cool, and a little bit of a crisis, and how to, you know, think on your feet, right? If something comes up in the news, and you need to make sure that you're on top of that, you're reaching out to the client, you're kind of making them feel comfortable, you're handling the emotions of the client, the journalists, all the timing. So those types of things, it's a, like, really hard to train somebody in that. And I've also found, it's not so easy to identify those immediately. So part of the incubator process is discovery process on Is this person a fit to stand on their own two feet as a freelance publicist? Um, in some cases or not, and in some cases with us, in many cases, we have seen them flourish, and they're probably, you know, busier than I am tons of clients. And they're like, Bing, which is always very exciting to see. But I would say, you know, aside from being a good communicator, and a good writer, which are crucial, it's, it's being able to kind of go with the flow and be able to manage a conversation, tough conversations with ease and grace.
Teresa Bigelow
This is like a huge realization I've had transferable across multiple my businesses, especially those who want to learn a skill set, like maybe coaching or in this sense, PR, they want to do the thing. But then there's the business ownership side of it, which I think a lot of this falls under the client relations, and like you have to put on your business hat that a lot of people don't realize, or maybe don't, when they're attracted to remote work or attracted to being their own boss, they don't realize that there's a list of more challenging things that comes with being your own boss, as well, to your point, these difficult conversations, right? When you work for an agency, or you work for someone else, and you were our in house team member. That doesn't mean you're void of difficult conversations, but you are void of some of the more business owner conversation. So I think that's really, really important to talk about if you're sitting in a spot. And you're someone listening right now who's in the PR field, who has been deciding should you break out and go on your own. Don't just think it's as simple as, okay, now, I'm just going to be my own boss, there's a, there's a lot that comes with it too. And as an independent consultant that falls on your shoulders, which is where I think to community become such a great, great resource for those in the independent publicists category.
Lexie Smith
So can you talk a little bit more even mentioned way back when that you started to realize the power of community and importance as you became an independent? Let's talk about that, why why is community so important? How can other publicists support each other? And also, what are you doing with Spiral5 in that sense? Yeah,
Teresa Bigelow
it really was the genesis of it, because I, I, the client just sort of appeared, you know, as, as a generator, Human Design. My PR business sort of just came to me and suddenly people were asking me to do their PR, and I was like, Oh, all right. Like, I do want to work for myself. So let's do this. And I'm like, Well, I know how to do PR. I know how to, you know, even like expectation setting like I had managed clients before, but I didn't know how to set my rates. I was nervous about proposal meeting. See. And that was when I started looking around in my network, I specifically remember posting about it on Facebook. Because Facebook was still a thing then to that was 2015 2016. And I remember posting about it sort of just looking for other women in particular who could just like I can like by an hour of their time to talk through how they manage clients, how they go through their, what their processes are. And I started just to build my own frameworks. And then yeah, like having that, having that support, I found this also just helped me feel a little less nervous. And also like thinking things like affording cision. And there there's a whole world of the PR industry and PR business, and admin, that can be challenging for somebody when you're solo. So that was the early days where I really just started creating like a informal community where we would chat or we would hang out, or if some, somebody got sick, you know, you could fill in for that person, you could find somebody to fill in for you at an event or something. And then, as the years went on, I realized that, you know, in order for this to continue, we would need to monetize it and kind of make it more formal for somebody who is a member of the community. You know, you've seen people post and exchange information about a wide variety of things, whether it's pitching or media relations, or you know, possible opportunities, client referrals, that kind of thing. And, and then what's cool with the incubator is that a lot of our senior members, so there's kind of three tiers, there are our senior publicist members. So these are people who are either own their own boutique PR agencies, or independent consultancies, and they're seasoned. And then you have the starter publicists as I call them. So Junior, publicists, apprentices, and they're the ones that are going through the incubator, and then we have our students. So the starter publicist often get hired by the senior publicists to work on their accounts, or if they need like a quick project. So it's cool to see how the ecosystem kind of, you know, is symbiotic in that sense. And it almost becomes like self sustaining. And I'm just sort of watching things unfold. And I'm like, cool, this is worked out great.
Lexie Smith
I know, maybe you don't have like a concrete answer for this. But as we look in the year years ahead, do you kind of have an evolved vision of what you want Spiral5 to come? Or? Or totally fair answer is everything just hitting the fan right now with, we don't know what's going to happen to our industry. So you're kind of leaving space for it to evolve organically.
Teresa Bigelow
I would say both. So I truthfully am feeling called to a new chapter. And I don't know what that looks like yet. But I don’t mean abandoning the incubator or Spiral5, true, like, honestly, it needs to be launched fully still, I feel like we've been in a bit of a beta like it's been a prototype, it's basically been a passion project, it hasn't necessarily been like a huge revenue driver, although it does drive revenue, for sure. And I know that it creates that it gives us a competitive advantage. So I want to lean into it, but in a way that feels more formal. So I'll just say that. And then there is another piece of this equation, where you know, we're talking about the skills of PR versus the skills of the business, I am very confident that our training can help somebody learn the skills of PR, effectively and efficiently. Part of our online course involves working with a real business, so we call it the practice project. And so they're developing a real campaign during the course of of the training. And that's been very effective. And so the enterprise play is to now work with agencies to help them train their incoming employees. And I feel very confident about that, because then we're we don't have to do so much of the like business training. It's like, here are the PR skills using our framework. So that is we are in conversations with, you know, recruiting companies and companies that are already kind of doing something similar to be able to implement our training in that capacity. But yeah, there's a lot of TBDs.
Lexie Smith
okay, and how can we or how can listeners? Where should they go to keep checking back for the TBDs with you have social platforms? Is there a website you want to point into what's the best place? Yeah,
Teresa Bigelow
I wish we were more active on social media, but website for sure. Sign up for the newsletter. And I would say probably the most immediate and solid development will be the agency outreach and that product so If anybody listening is interested in having an outsourced training or mentorship platform for new hires, you please do you know, send me an email directly. That's Teresa at Spiral5.com. And yeah, we'll definitely be keeping our mailing list apprised of any updates, we will have a cohort, most likely in January of 2024. Typically, they launched in the fall. But this year with some conversations that are happening, we're going to delay it a little bit. So if you're interested in becoming a publicist, please also visit our website and you can go to the incubator tab, and sign up to stay posted or even fill out the application if you're feeling called to.
Lexie Smith
Yeah. And we'll put all those links in the show notes for those of you listening. Before I let you go, I have to ask. You know, we've talked we haven't really talked to pitch in but we've talked PR, what can we find you sipping so what is your favorite beverage? And before you answer I have to show everyone who's watching on YouTube. I'm sick right now. So my beverage today is a nice glass of water with an emergency in it.
Teresa Bigelow
Well, today at 2:40pm Mine is also water. But okay, this is the question that I was like the most nervous for? Because like, it's so complicated, like, I have more than one answer. And I, Okay, so I am such a huge fan and enthusiast and lover of Mezcal. And I have been for years. Like before, it was cool. But then I think I got like, I don't know, I got a little tired of it. And so lately, I've been drinking a lot of whiskey and scotch. So I love me a whiskey sour. It's got to be served up with light on the sweetener. And I also love a cocktail called, it's called the penicillin and it's just
Lexie Smith
I have heard of that, um, I again because I'm sick. I've had a couple hot toddies in the past week, which my the worst joke that I took from my father and I still have carried with me to this day is alcohol kills germs. Which think about it for a second. I get it. Alcohol kills germs, but he doesn't mean like, like, like literally like, anyways, I'm gonna die right there. So it does. It does, but it doesn't. Anyway, it's hot toddies I've been having whiskey this week with that and it has been hitting the spot so Oh, I
Teresa Bigelow
love it. Yeah, I think that's like definitely an urban legend myth sort of situation. However, it's one that I would like to subscribe to as well.
Lexie Smith
I know the honey and the lemon that are helping me but it also it's nice since I can't have some of my favorite go twos right now. Or would it be wise to I guess I could say I'm an adult, but amazing. Okay, so penicillin Mezcal and water and water within
Teresa Bigelow
the waters. And I see I love me some ice tea.
Lexie Smith
Amazing. Well, Teresa, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Again, I don't know why it took till season six to bring you on. That is my bad you should have been on much earlier but here you are. Now everyone please go check out Spiral5 whether you're a business owner or a publicist, what she is building is is truly truly innovative and super, super cool and needed in my opinion for for the world in our industry.
Teresa Bigelow
Thank you Lexie. It's been so fun.
Lexie Smith
Hey guys, if you are enjoying the Pitchin’ and Sippin’ podcast, please do me a huge favor and leave a review wherever you are listening. If you want to connect with me to learn more about THEPRBAR inc. You can do so on Instagram @theprbar_inc Or you can check out my website at theprbarinc.com Cheers!