Ungovernable Women with Portia Mount
"Ungovernable Women" (formerly The Manifista) dives into the lives and careers of extraordinary women who have redefined success on their own terms. Each episode offers a glimpse into the journeys of trailblazing women who dare to lead audacious, purpose-driven lives and the lessons they learned along the way.
Ungovernable Women with Portia Mount
Driven to Serve with Tracey Cesen
Portia welcomes Tracey Cesen, Founder & CEO of Forever Human.ai, for an inspiring conversation about her journey as a tech entrepreneur. Tracey reflects on how a deep-rooted desire to serve has guided her from the beginning of her career, and continues to shape her leadership today. She opens up about the challenges and insights gained as a young working mom with a growing family, and how those experiences have strengthened her approach to leading with optimism, empathy, and purpose.
Have a question or comment? Email us at ungovernablewomen@gmail.com.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Tracey Cesen on LinkedIn
Forever Human.ai’s Website
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of Ungovernable Women, formerly the Manifesta Podcast, the lifestyle and career podcast for aspiring women. Our new name reflects our mission to reach even more listeners with stories of women who are breaking boundaries and redefining success. I have a favor to ask you, If you haven't done so already, please rate and subscribe to the pod. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, it boosts our rankings and helps more people discover us. Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Season 5 of Ungovernable Women, the career and lifestyle podcast for aspiring women ready to break barriers. I'm Portia Mouw and I'm thrilled to be back with my co-host, Tiffany Waddell-Tate, CEO of Career Maven Consulting. We've got a new name, but our mission remains stronger than ever helping women find their purpose, lead high-impact careers and meaningful lives. This season will bring you the stories of women who forged their own paths to success. It's our time to shine. Let's dive in. I am so delighted to welcome Tracy Sesson to the pod. Tracy is founder and CEO of foreverhumanai and, Tracy, you and I met a few years ago at Constellation Research's CCE conference.
Speaker 1:So I have to give a shout out to Ray Wong because he always puts the most interesting people together who are doing really cool, just impactful work in the world, and so it's a great tech and innovation conference and literally everybody you meet at this conference is doing great work you want to connect, learn from and be friends with, and Tracy was one of those people for me Also, there were very few women at the conference that we were at too, so I was like, oh, there's another woman there, but I just really really enjoyed meeting you, and before founding Forever Humanai, tracy had a long successful career as a tech CEO, innovator and operator, and you're going to find the link to her LinkedIn profile company website in the show notes, so check her out. She's also the mom of Tracy. Do I have this right? Eight kids, eight, count them, count them. And I think when you and I first met, you had just had your. Was it baby seven or baby eight? Baby eight, yeah.
Speaker 2:Baby eight I'm done.
Speaker 1:Now I'm done. Listen. I mean I'm like she was there. She was there, she was at the conference, which was like totally badass because you were also on a panel, like you were speaking, you had the baby. I think your husband was there too, like doing some backup. There was a couple of kids like kind of like coming in and coming out.
Speaker 2:I only had one with me at the conference. Okay, yeah, I was there the year before, when I was on a bunch of panels and I was 39 weeks pregnant.
Speaker 1:Lord.
Speaker 2:I basically looked like I had a baby on me, oh, my Lord, and anytime, like I had my team member with me at any time, he was ready to just freak on stage. And anytime, like I had my team member with me at any time, he was ready to just freak on stage.
Speaker 1:Those guys must have been so scared to see you walk, kind of come in, because you know, like that when you get to like 39 weeks you're just like it looks usually like you're going to explode. And I have found that, like every guy that's not related to you literally just clears a wide berth because they're so afraid you might go into labor.
Speaker 2:But you did it. You did what you needed to do. Yeah, the guys were great, but the highlight that year was in the going back to like raise, the you know miscellaneous and interesting network which, by the way, you downplayed your own um entry into his circle because you're an award winner.
Speaker 1:Yes, you get award to get yes, I've Very cool stuff, so I appreciate that. I appreciate it. I'll downplay that, thank you. Thank you, I'll take it on.
Speaker 2:Take it on, Even though she's like more of a tech and learning design person. There was a woman there, her name is Janice and she also is like a lay midwife, and so I was literally like I had her room number written down. I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1:I didn't know this.
Speaker 2:I'm literally coming to your room. I was hoping actually. I thought, well, if I have the baby here, you're at the Ritz.
Speaker 1:It's at the Ritz.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right, maybe the baby would get like Ritz for life for free or something.
Speaker 1:You know what? You know what? I really don't think that the Ritz would be a bad place to have a baby, exactly.
Speaker 2:You have somebody to clean, right, they bring you food, food's really good yeah, flying home with a newborn is a little Not awesome.
Speaker 1:It's not awesome. Stuck at the Ritz, you know what. I think that I could imagine worse things. So we're going to dig into how you pivoted to found your own company, because you just have such an interesting career, some of the lessons that you've learned along the way, and obviously we have got to talk about how you're doing all this with eight kids. But what I have found is that the more kids you have, the more just, fabulous you happen to be, and I have yet to meet an entrepreneur who's a mom, who's not, like a total badass. So I'm super excited for that conversation. But first of all, let's jump into some basics. Tracy, where does this pod actually physically find you? Because I know when we were getting in the green room, you had this insane like delayed. You were traveling and you got in at like this crazy hour. So like, where are you now? Like, did you make it home or are you still in at like this crazy hour? So like, where are you now? Like, did you make it home or are you still in the?
Speaker 2:airport somewhere I did make it home. I'm very happy this is my home office. It has this little sign that says what you love for like a really long time in my career.
Speaker 1:So I'm back there, I'm home.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, look, one of the things, when you're trying to balance your life and you know this, you're a mom, right is you do crazy things when you travel like you do crazy shit all the time before. Right, you get up at 3 am and you take that early flight. Yeah, why do we do? That to ourselves, because we want to be here for the kids, you know, and so sometimes it's smart and sometimes it's incredibly stupid, but I can tell you, last night I was like I don't care what happens I want to get home.
Speaker 2:I don't care how late it is, I just didn't. Sometimes you're just like now. I'm home for a whole day, right, instead of? Even obviously it ended up being like it was four o'clock when I went to sleep. It's like three o'clock when I got home, but anyway, but still.
Speaker 1:You look amazing. You're like, glowing, like I would never know that you were sleep deprived.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm kind of an expert, but I do also have this coffee right here. So I was like I have, I physically live, so I live in the Pittsburgh suburbs, but you know part of living in Pittsburgh like it's a great place to live, it's a great place to raise a family. I also travel a lot and I have for like a really long time, and so it's.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's in many ways it's a best of both worlds kind of life. You know, I get to go to a lot of really cool interesting places, different cities hang out with a lot of cool people, but then I also have a really awesome place to live at home and a great place to raise a family. So awesome.
Speaker 1:I love that, and I think what that says to me is you've made some choices to kind of design a life that works for you, and that's something that our listeners, I think, are always trying to figure out and learn from other women of. Like, how have you, you know, whether you have eight children or no children, or whatever stage of life you're in is like, how do you create a life that works for you? I live in North Carolina. I'm from California, but kind of similar. It is a place where it's a great jumping off spot. It's really good for raising kids and I also happen to travel a lot for work too. But I'm able to get in and out pretty easily and, like you, I will break my neck to get home because I like to make the practices, go to the games and all that stuff. So, tracy, give us a little bit of your backstory. Like, what should we know about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
Speaker 1:I know it's a big question, but you know like what makes you you?
Speaker 2:What makes you you? I think these are things. I do know, some things that I think make me unique. I think the first one is you know you already brought up the kids, but I think obviously it's like very having kids is always like a seminal moment, like no matter when it happens.
Speaker 2:I know a little bit about your story, but in my particular case, I was a super young mom, so I had my first child when I was 16 years old and I was very grateful to get to raise her and she was my why in life. And I will tell you like I mean you know, I mean there are amazing people that came around me. There are obviously always some people that are going to think you know, you're an idiot to keep a baby, you shouldn't do that, etc. Etc. And so she really became my why. And I would say for sure and I think a lot of people are like starting their career, I had like a bit of a chip on my shoulder because I wanted to prove to people that we could be successful.
Speaker 2:I also was like very driven to take care of her Right. So I like worked super hard. I was very fortunate, like I mean. My story of getting into tech, which I absolutely love, is also awesome. I ended up getting hired to work as a developer at Siemens, what's now Siemens Healthcare, siemens Health Engineer. It was a company that got acquired when I was only 20 years old.
Speaker 2:The reason why I got hired is when I originally was going to go to nursing school because and this is one of the things I think is funny because I wanted to help people. And you know, think of being that age right, how do you help people? You'd be like a teacher or a nurse or something like that. And I basically realized, you know, pretty early on, like the thing you can do with technology is you can help people at scale, you know, and so you know, I realized I could take the same, the same skill sets that made me good in like literal clinical care, like I mean, I was a nurse's aide when I was in high school, right, because I had to work, I had baby take care of and stuff. But those same skill sets of like listening to people, figuring out what they needed and taking care of them. Like the crazy thing is you actually can really scale that with technology.
Speaker 2:And I think that's part of the reason why you look at my life and my bio. I've always been very user experience focused. I never got into like the whole of falling in love with the tech. I will also say that people like me pair really well with people who are really in love with the tech and I had a lot of those kind of people in my network when I was young. So that's fortunate, right. So, you know, to be somebody that was more user focused, outcomes focused, together with somebody who's a deep technologist like that's a really strong pairing. And so I had the opportunity to, you know, be in healthcare. I will say I always wanted to start my own business, so this is actually a dream come true for me.
Speaker 2:I look back and I'm like I could. I actually could have done it a long time ago, but I didn't really understand, how you know. And so there were different times in my career where I did freelance work, where I even got to like subcontracting some people and I was like, oh, I'm like almost starting a business, but you know, you just get into, you have kids, you want to have a steady income, we bought a house, you know things like that, and so that that held up the dream for a while.
Speaker 1:So, tracy, can I ask you I just want to just go back for something because I think this is really interesting Teen mom really kind of just has a lot of hustle and grit and did was there any why? And then you go, you know, so your first big job going into Siemens, going into tech, which is kind of like cracks something open for you. I'm just curious, did you have any guides or that's like such a young age, like a lot of things go right. You know, there's always a stigma with teen moms, I think, but I also think we have more support systems now and it also is highly reliant on you, the individual.
Speaker 2:And I'm just curious, like, did you have anyone who like helped you, like guide you, or said hey, listen, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the story of people like influencing my life is, for sure, the thread throughout my life and that's like a thing that's important to me. Like I give back to people, there was nobody, that was like charting my path for me, because most of the people that were encouraging me like they didn't know anything about tech you know.
Speaker 1:So I kind of have to.
Speaker 2:I learned early on that there's no like Holy grail mentor that's going to be like. This is your path, and here I'm a work mom and I'm in tech and all this stuff.
Speaker 2:Those people like literally almost didn't exist, right. But you're looking for those mentors. But I was really fortunate, right, like there was a teen parenting program in my high school and so there were wonderful women who worked there that really gave you know, poured their lives into those of us that were teen moms and our kids, right. So there's literally a daycare in my school Like so was it hard. It was super hard, Right, but I mean just. You know, the logistics of being a mom are complicated, no matter what age you are.
Speaker 2:We all know that In fact, I was like you're keeping trains on the track, but like I drove to the school and dropped my child off at the daycare in the school and it's like having on site daycare when you're like it was awesome. So I was really fortunate and the director of that program, who's a wonderful woman named Linda Sheckenbach, definitely took me under her wing. There was also a woman who ran our crisis pregnancy center in that area who took me under her wing.
Speaker 1:I still talk to her on a regular basis today.
Speaker 2:I can say exactly how many years, but it's been a really lot of years, and then obviously my oldest kid's age you can figure it out. So for like 100%, there are so many people that encourage me. And I think of the things that like helps people be successful is you have to, because there were a lot of moments of discouragement from actual like actually people's being discouraging, but also just life was like so hard, everything was so hard all the time.
Speaker 2:But like you learn, I mean essentially I'm an optimist and I looked on the bright side so I didn't think about the hundred things that went wrong. I looked at the one thing, like, okay, you know, everyone got dropped off. Okay, you know, I got to hold her before I had to go to class or go to work or whatever. Or she's having a good time with, you know, her aunt or grandparents or whatever while I work. So I learned, like very quickly, to not dwell on the negative, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that, I love that, I love that and you know, I think it. It explains a lot of kind of like what I saw in you when I first met you, Cause I was like this is a woman who's like on her shit and like you have, that's very generous, you have that. Well, no, I mean, you've just got that.
Speaker 2:You've got that level you have that sort of that aura, if you will, and I'm so you kind of alluded to it, but I'm curious, what do you think are some of the qualities or characteristics of yours that have been most important for you? You know, at this point in my career were really? I came at everything I did with an attitude of service. Especially early I was just looking for how to help people. It was like in my DNA. I was always kind of like that. I was like the helpful kid. If my parents would ask for something, I would.
Speaker 1:Are you the oldest kid, are you the oldest child, or like, where are you in the birth?
Speaker 2:order. I'm one of the. I hate the birth order thing because I have so many kids, but like there is a little bit of that. So it's my dad's oldest and I was the middle child. My cause I have a half brother, um, so I think I actually have the characteristics of both, like the oldest and the middle child. So, yeah, I'm kind of a peacemaker, but also, you know, I was definitely encouraged by my dad to, you know, get out there. So I think I have optimism. Thing is really important.
Speaker 1:Second, that attitude of service.
Speaker 2:And then the third was like I was always learning right and so part of my story that you know, I don't, I actually still don't love to tell is that I never finished college. You know which is crazy. Like to give you an idea of what the expectations were. I mean, like my grandmother was a college graduate, right, and so when I didn't finish school, it was, it was a big deal, like I dropped out and dropped out and went back so many times. I mean, I don't even know if I could trace all the places where I have college credit because I was always trying to go back, right. But like looking back at myself being younger now with empathy, I was working full time. I was typically also doing freelance work and teaching myself.
Speaker 1:You're a parent, you were a parent.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, exactly, I had children a child and then more and more right. And then the other thing is because of the nature of my work. So I jumped right onto the web training when it was brand new and so it was changing all the time. And so at night I would go home after work and I would teach myself stuff and I would do these contract projects to learn. And then I would go to work all day and I had kids to take care of.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, I was always learning and it also put you in a mode, especially, I mean, look, now there's like a bunch of headlines oh, google doesn't require a degree, et cetera, et cetera, which is, like you know, great. We should actually a hundred percent acknowledge that tons of learning happens outside the classroom. In fact, it's like insane to think that wouldn't be true. Right, like they have all this stuff, kids learn before they even go to school.
Speaker 1:Most of your learning. Most of your learning happens right outside of a classroom.
Speaker 2:If you think about it, that sentence is like somewhat controversial when you're in your early twenties, right, it's sounds silly, right? Because if you don't have a degree so for me I was always I always had to work harder, I had to prove myself, I had to go in as a contractor. I couldn't get hired as an FTE because it's even bachelor's degree or even a master's degree, and so I like really developed that skill of like proving myself, driving value, learning quickly.
Speaker 2:Of course, you know, I'm so thankful that we kind of got to grow up in the years we did, because there's so much access to information, right, but like at the time I would go to Barnes and Noble or Borders after work and I would buy these like super fat books and you'd put like CD-ROM and then learning new programs.
Speaker 1:I remember that so definitely always.
Speaker 2:Learning new things is like very much in my DNA and luckily, like I was, I always loved to read. I was always like sort of a curious kid, so I just took that energy and put it towards technology and then later business. I didn't really read on other topics for years and years because I, just like you know, I gave up fiction.
Speaker 1:You know just very was very practical, so you. So I think there's a couple of things that really strike me then. So one is I love that you've talked you've talked about optimism a lot, and I think that's really important, right, right, we will have adversity. That it is, it is a given. We are going to experience adversity. But believing you can get through it, believing that like there's something better on the side having, I definitely relate to being an optimist as well.
Speaker 1:I also really resonate with this continuous learning, because that is the world we live in now. So the idea that you're going to go to school and then just that's it, is not a thing anymore. I also really appreciate that you have you talked about not finishing college. So a couple of things. One is I think more and more, that is a choice for young people, whether it's financially motivated or whether it's just like school's not their thing and they want to jump right into working.
Speaker 1:I feel it's really it's good, and I think it's for those who are listening, who maybe are early, like early, early, and they're like, oh, should I go back and get an associate or should I go to college? Like there's lots and lots of ways to get to where you want to go. So I just appreciate that you've shared that, and I remember when we were at CCE, you and I and Phil Kamardi talked about like just what's happening, like the changing and thinking around college and you know, is it necessary or what do you? You know, but you're an autodidact too right, like you are teaching yourself constantly, and I think that's a really important quality that everyone should have is the willingness and ability to constantly teach themselves something new. So, like, like, big up to you for that, and I think that's such a great model.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, look, portia, I didn't have any other choice, right? Like I said, I was motivated to take care of my kid and I was like, how do I make more money, how do I take care of her, how do I provide for her? But I would also say, you know, I spent some years and that's you know where Phil and I crossed paths. I spent some years in higher education management. I got a digital transformation role, basically, and I will tell you what really drove me in that market and continues to. I've been very fortunate to work with a lot of, you know, really awesome higher ed clients in both more traditional modalities as well as online, as well as like short courses, boot camps and things like that is, it was unnecessarily hard for me, like when I tell my story.
Speaker 2:I'm not telling it because I want anyone to go through what I went through. In fact, I look back like this is so dumb, no-transcript, hello. That helps, right. It helps with student indebtedness. It just helps with the practicalities of life. It also I mean, you know, fortunately you've led big teams Having people get into the workplace sooner helps them understand the reality.
Speaker 2:It helps them apply what they learn, which is actually the best way to retain something right Like going and learning learning in sort of a silo, especially when people go for continuing ed and then they finally get into the workplace. You know, these are super smart, amazing people, but if they have the opportunity to apply their learning sooner a lot of times, it can be really effective. So I'm pretty passionate about that.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, like you said, there's many ways to learn, you know, yeah, it's, well, it's. I love that you're saying this, it's so. I have a. My son is 15 and he wants to, you know, go to college. But he was like you know, we were, we were literally talking today of like, well, he's like, you know, like, could I he's, he he's thinking about learning a trade in high school, like while he's still in high school, because, because he has decided he wants to be a business owner and he wants to be a business owner sooner rather than later, and so, and so I love that there are all these options for kids where we use, you know, in the old days, in the olden days, we'd be like, four-year degree, go you know, like, just like, and you're going to go to school.
Speaker 1:Then you're going to do like and you're going to be. It's going to be very sequential, and now what we're saying is listen, first of all, figure out what you like and don't like. The only way you do that is by actually doing the thing right. It's not sitting in the classroom, it's actually going and trying out some different careers. If you want to go to medical school, though, maybe you try to be a CNA first and you can become a CNA and I think, as late, as early as, like your last year in high school, like there's so many options.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a program I took. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can get trained when you're 16.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can get trained when you're 16. This, I think, is really the kind of the trend, and so it's just great to talk to someone who has a real perspective on it, because I don't think we talk about it enough and that means that we don't give kids. It's about optionality, right? It's about optionality in your career. Okay, let's talk a little bit about so foreverhumanai. First of all, I love the name. I think I told you I love the brand. I love the branding.
Speaker 2:That means a lot coming from an expert like you, so thank you. So just tell me a little bit about like how, what's the genesis of the company? So the genesis of Forever Human AI is? I had the opportunity to start my own business and as I was thinking about what I really wanted to do which you know this is it's an interesting time, right. Like I'm older, I've had a lot of years of experience, I've seen a lot. It's like what do I really want to do? Years I career in multiple different industries.
Speaker 2:Working for somebody else, working for somebody else Working for somebody else and actually like in the corporate world, which is different than being on the professional services side. So I worked in banking, financial services, I worked in healthcare, I worked in education and then I had the opportunity to come in and help to grow and run a professional services consultancy. That was an awesome time. My career is there for nine years, but now I'm like I can do my own thing. So I was like, what do I want to actually do? So I'm going to take the time to think through it. I did an exercise many years ago. I don't know if you've ever done this one.
Speaker 2:It's like what someone's going to say, something you know, and so it was actually an awesome exercise that I did when I was, like you know, a team leader and my team and I did it and I decided I wanted my tombstone to say she helped unlock human potential, because I wanted to be broad, right, because obviously being a mom is super important to me, but so is the actual work that we do in digital technology, right, like making things easier for customers, helping unlock new markets for my clients, like things like that, and also, of course, building out teams, like one of the things that I think is really awesome. Right, you bring someone in. They're less experienced, you stay with them for years and you coach and mentor them.
Speaker 2:I love that too, stay with you or they go on and do it. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome, right, so you're helping unlock human potential, and so I knew something like that had to be in my company, and so I was like, okay, well, what I do, I do for the people. Right, tech is just my tool set, but I'm just, ultimately, I'm a people person. I want to make life better for people. The other thing I noticed was you know, people were freaking out about AI, not that they aren't still, but you think, like a year ago.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, losingosing it, losing it, totally losing it, we're losing it right.
Speaker 2:And it's still out there right, especially if you're like me and you spend way too much time on X Twitter, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not there at all. So I am not. I am off of X because I was like it's, that's enough, Busta.
Speaker 2:There's like great stuff there. And there's also like there'll be no jobs. It's going to be like, yes, our AI overlords are here, their overlords are here, exactly Right, just submit. Yeah, resistance is futile, right, yeah, exactly. But like I have a very strong perspective, like, look, ai is great. You know, I've been fortunate because I've been like on the bleeding edge of technology for my whole career right and so we have data science team for years and years.
Speaker 2:Like you get the potential. And then you also, just generally speaking, right Like there's lots of technology out there that people have not been able to adopt anyway. Just think about it. Like, how many people can't even get a CRM out the door, let alone all of a sudden we're going to audit.
Speaker 1:We don't have enough time to even talk about the CRMs. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I picked that one on purpose for you, but anyway. So what I really started to think about is, like people are scared of this right, and when I think about like I want to help people understand everything that we do in my business is in the service of people and it's super obvious. We will forever be focused on the human Forever human.
Speaker 2:And making the world a better place right. Leveraging AI, leveraging the ServiceNow platform which I just thought was like an awesome platform, again under leveraged for its potential, not because that's a great platform, but, as you know, you have these great tools.
Speaker 1:but then how do you unlock them for the benefit of the organization? Exactly how do you?
Speaker 2:unlock it for the people. Organizations are just people right. And so that was where I really wanted to say how do we take these tools and apply them to make a difference for people? So, whether you're making people's jobs easier, you're helping to create new markets, if you're helping to create better experiences for customers. And so I was like this is my, this is my focus forever, you know. And so that's how I ended up with the name of the company.
Speaker 1:So this has been. Are you one year in a little bit more than a year in One year? Yeah, okay, yes, so what's been the biggest? You know people ask me this, so I always love asking the question like what, what's what surprised you when you're in what's, what's been the biggest surprise?
Speaker 2:I mean, the biggest surprise I had a year in was everything takes longer than I thought, oh my.
Speaker 1:God, nobody tells, like I know.
Speaker 2:It's like we know this, but then you're oh my God, yeah, yeah, yeah you reject it.
Speaker 1:Everything takes longer, everything literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, but I guess the thing I would say is the most amazing thing.
Speaker 2:And this is. I would just say this as a word of encouragement to like anybody whether you're later in your career, mid career or, you know you're very young and getting started is like this sounds so stupid but people stop themselves for all kinds of reasons, right Like I was at a women's event yesterday. I was talking about like we make our own glass ceilings. You can just do stuff right. Like I mean, like I had this idea and I mean again, think of the tool sets we have now. They're like incredible. I'm like brainstorming the name of the company and trying to figure out your own. Like texting my friend. Like we're going back and forth and back he's the one that found the domain and like actually found one that worked Right Cause the first one we wanted to use for an available course. Like every you know. And like coming up with the logo. I mean you know these are taking. It's just like when you you know we did lots of software development ideas like that they're coming.
Speaker 2:Like we're innately creative as people yeah so just being able to take something from idea into execution. If I have one tip for people, this is my opinion. Okay, I don't know if you would, you well? Okay, portia, you are a marketing expert, so I have a feeling you'll vote with me. One of the very, very first things I did was, of course, I picked the name of the company, but I also did like the logo and the branding and I ordered business cards. You know, like I'm going to show you one, so I have these business cards. They're really I think they're really beautiful With my favorite color this with the purple, it's really beautiful, I mean.
Speaker 2:I work with the designer, right. So it's like and so my awesome friend Sarah's company printed these for me and actually, when she printed them for me, she goes you know, I'm not charging you for these. That's like you said, the people helping you along, I'm like you don't need to not charge me. She's like this is my investment into your company.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:And it's so funny because lots of people don't do business cards anymore. My point isn't to say go do business cards, but when you're like by yourself, this is like the realest thing I had for my business. I had this and I was like, and I was just you had to self coach yourself all the time. Portia, I mean, I know you're a handy in this right, so like you really become cause if you wait to have time to talk to me or whatever, like you can't right.
Speaker 1:You have to just execute. You just have to do stuff all the time.
Speaker 2:That's right you have to execute all the time. I have a real business card, so it's a real business. You can go out.
Speaker 1:It's a real business. I have a real business. I have a real business Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly, and you know it comes true's idea. All of them, every single one, it was just somebody came up with an idea and those ideas are like how can I help this person? How do I serve this market? Oh, I don't like how my employer does this, I'm going to do this differently. They're just normal people like us. You feel like there's this other level. I had the same reaction to moving into executive management. You think you think you're going to get in there and like, all of a sudden, like all the smart, extra smart people are going to be in there and like let's just say they're just normal, they're normal. The reaction, by the way, my team, it's like I'm not that smart, like why does she get to this job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very true. Risk tolerance, yeah, yeah, you know what. That is actually really funny. You get into, you get to the I call it to the. You get to the big table and you're like this really isn't that big of a deal. It's like more stress. It's like more stress, but you're like it's not that big of a deal. But no-transcript, I know sooner rather than later, right, that's the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Portia say that again for the people in the back If it doesn't work right. Like one of the things you know, in my previous business I had the opportunity to work with a lot of startups.
Speaker 2:Actually, in my company before that I worked with a lot of startups because I was like innovation person, you know, and the sooner you can get your idea and get real reaction to it. Like the first thing I did when I decided to start this business, I was like just calling all my friends. I was like calling my CIO friends and I was like calling you know someone? I knew a few people I knew that went to service. Now Should I start this business? You know, I'm like asking for feedback. Well, this is my hypothesis. And then I like wrote down my four bullet points and I just started calling people. I remember, yeah, people I talked to right, but I wanted to remember right, because I was just testing my hypothesis and tested in production. And the other thing to realize and this is my tip as somebody who spent my whole career in fast-moving technology- Everybody's career is moving faster and faster and faster all the time.
Speaker 2:But, like I started there and was always there, right, that's why I had to study at night to learn the new thing, because that's what happens when you're in tech. You have to do that. You always have to do it, which is just call everything your current hypothesis right. Don't get married to anything right when it comes to your business. Right, Like things are going to change and, of course, you have to pick your focus and you have to execute against it. But you also have to continuously horizon scan. We I mean people can like it or not like it, but it's actually just reality.
Speaker 1:This is knowledge, and so keep an open mind.
Speaker 2:Like today you're doing a podcast, Like later on you might be doing I might be like hitting on a VR simulation together and like maybe we'll go for like a virtual walk, I need.
Speaker 1:I need real exercise Tracy, not virtual exercise.
Speaker 2:I know, I know, yeah, no, no, that's true, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I, although I did recently buy an under the desk treadmill because I was like I can't be sitting all day. It's like it's dead. No but it's easy.
Speaker 2:It's super we as entrepreneurs. It's like, I think, one of the dangers right, because you own it, it's you and I had a lot of this at my previous company. Right, Because I was at the top of the organization yeah, I was able to. It's just like if I do one more thing, it will make a difference. You know, sometimes it felt like and I'm not saying this is always true, certainly not always but it felt in the corporate world. I was like, why would I even keep trying? There were definitely days like that, yeah, or you're just waiting on people, but you're never. It's easy to sit at your desk and sit there all day and, like you barely go to the bathroom, maybe you drink some and, of course, when you finally realize, oh, I've been sitting here since, whatever, since like 15 hours.
Speaker 1:What do you do?
Speaker 2:Eat chips, eat chips, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Which is why I don't buy chips, because, yes, that is Can't have it in the house, can't have it in the house. But I love. This point here is so important because it's really easy to overthink things and you're right. In corporate, you spend a lot of time waiting on people, you know, or you have to go and sell. You know. You sell one person on the idea and then it's like okay, we got to talk to the team, you know.
Speaker 1:It's like there's so many layers and it takes a lot and I worked in manufacturing and manufacturing it takes like you work with a bunch of engineers, like it can take a long time just to get this, because there's real impact. Because there's real, that's right, exactly Because there's real impact if it's wrong. But I think the thing that I've appreciated and I really am glad that you're articulating, is like you move faster so you can learn more and more quickly. And this part about the hypotheses it's the hypothesis you have right now, which may change as you learn more and as it should change and as you get more feedback, and I also love.
Speaker 1:I want to just kind of flag for our listeners that, like the way you talked about, like you and I talked you talked to you said you call a CFO, like that is absolutely the most important thing. It's like you can't DIY this with YouTube sitting in your desk by yourself. You've got to go out and talk to people who've either done it, who are doing it, because that's going to speed your learning curve. And I think for people who are perfectionists or who, like I, need this to be a hundred percent baked, it's like no, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to like, you're going to go as far as you can see, let it rip and then correct course, correct along the way. So I love that lesson yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:I think figuring out too if you think of your idea, your company, your business, your market offering, whatever your product. I mean, a lot of this comes from software product, right? So the nice thing about not being in the same thing is, you can always ship more and you can be iterative, but there is actually a really important principle too of how far do you go into those experiments before you call them right. That's like I think a lot of times where the bar is oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you know it's like you tell people you started a business and start collecting leads, when really what you're trying to do is just test and see if there's a market opportunity. I mean, I know people have done that. That's not my DNA, right? Do you go that far? Yeah, yeah, opportunity. I mean I know people have done that. That's not my DNA, right, do you go that far? But then you have that on one side. On the other extreme you have people that, especially in the technology world, they're designing and designing and designing and they're sitting in front of their own computer with their own ideas, in some cases not informed by the marketplace at all, and they go under where the years go by, and then they launch their thing and guess what? The market doesn't want it, right, and so there's no product market fit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no fit I never lived in a world where I had that opportunity. I never got caught up in that Right. I was very fortunate that, even though I was in technology. I was in fast moving groups. I actually worked with embedded in the marketing team for a long time, which is funny, because I didn't want to be embedded in the marketing team. I was like real developers are in IT. I learned so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone looks down on us, right, and so I learned I know Everyone just looks down. We're just trying to help you sell things, that's all.
Speaker 2:The other thing you learn. Okay, here's a lesson that I think is super important for people to learn, especially when they're more in the back of the house, whether in technology, manufacturing, et cetera. One of the things that I figured out early on is the marketing people, the salespeople, whoever the go-to-market people are in your organization, are not, in fact, changing things because they are clueless or because they are trying to torture you, right? Or because they can't make decisions. It is, in fact, because the marketplace is fickle and it moves very quickly and, depending on what your offer is, the closer you are to a fast moving, especially if you're in a consumer market. We're consumer like. We change our minds all the time, right Like are you starting to?
Speaker 2:brand of outfit, like clothes, whatever so the faster you are, the closer you are to that and I think that when I realized that, I really took that perspective and I would share it with the IT team and I would share it with my team so that people, empathy is the skill right, empathy is the skill. I have, more than one skill that I recommend people get. But empathy and assuming good intent from people, right, we'll allow you to. Then you step in the shoes and say why is Portia, the crazy marketing lady, changing her mind again? Oh, cause she talked to customers. You know the reason why we have a business.
Speaker 1:So we're at the part, you know so, when I love the passion, the energy, but also the insight and the customer centricity. What's really clear to me also, which I hope listeners take away, especially if you're in a service well, any kind of business is like you have to, we're all in service, right Is really thinking about if you can really think about what it is that your market, the market needs, where that gap is and where you can help fill it. Like there's always going to be a role for you. Okay, so we're at the part that I love the best, which is our lightning round, and this is where you have to just let it rip. You can't overthink this Tracy.
Speaker 2:So I don't have time to overthink stuff, so it's perfect for me.
Speaker 1:So we've been talking about moving fast and making fast decisions. So what is the best purchase under a $150 that you've made recently?
Speaker 2:I would say I have these commercial, like these microphone things, and I have a stand and it allows me to do my LinkedIn videos, and so if you're thinking from a perspective. It's a great way to get started with. You know whether podcasting, but more short.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you do lots and lots of LinkedIn videos. So when people, when people, you do lots, there's like super cool. Your husband's made some appearances in them, but I love they're very practical.
Speaker 2:I try to drag other people in, but a lot of people don't want to be. I've noticed.
Speaker 1:I've noticed that I was like she's really working hard, roping in her. Your husband looks like he's being a good sport. Is there a secret? Okay, so this is one I love to ask Is there a secret unpopular opinion that you hold that will no longer be secret once you tell it, by the way. Secret, unpopular opinion.
Speaker 2:My secret, unpopular opinion is that leadership actually truly is a service to people and as you get more senior and you take more on. You are literally giving up more and more and more and more and more of yourself and what you want, because you are doing it in service to those customers, to the teams you work for and so. But the beauty of it is, if you can really be humble and learn from them, you actually, you become something better.
Speaker 2:It becomes the company takes on a life of itself right and saying like and you have that with parenting is another perfect analogy right, you want talk about your son, you want them to become what they're meant to be, and you really want to be like the facilitator. And I don't think that you know. Either people hear it at a headline oh, humility is important, or they just think it's something else.
Speaker 1:I love that and there really is, if I go back to it's a perfect way to end. But I also want to just kind of pull the red thread because we started with you talking about you know, early on in your career as a high school, like you wanted to be of service, like and you have used this this has been a theme that you have shared Like. It seems like it's been a theme throughout your life, throughout your career, and I love that you are like. That emphasis of being of service, of being like a servant leader, especially now, is really, really powerful. Tracy Sesson so wonderful to have you on the pod. Any parting thought you want to have before we break, any final thought you want to leave with our listeners I'll say one last thing no matter what role you're in, talk to your customers.
Speaker 2:Talk to your customers more, and then just stop talking and just listen.
Speaker 1:And just listen. Tracy, so wonderful to be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Wonderful to be with you, Portia. I can't wait to be in person with you again soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. Me too. Thanks for listening to Ungovernable Women. Our producer and editor is Megan King. Our social media manager is Destiny Eicher. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen to your pods. Your ratings help other listeners find us. You can follow and DM us on Instagram at ungovernablexwomen, and TikTok at ungovernablexwomen. See you next time.