When the Bill Comes Due

Ep 13: Silent or Silenced?

March 08, 2021 Aaron & Tamu Season 1 Episode 13
When the Bill Comes Due
Ep 13: Silent or Silenced?
Show Notes Transcript

Silence speaks volumes and we all know how to keep it cute for the work coins! Aaron and Tamu discuss the struggle to be authentic, opinionated and confident in work settings as people of color.  They also recount a French (potentially DL-a.k.a. down low) love affair sung by Terence Trent D’Arby’s “Sign Your Name..” Come through, family! We laugh a lot on this joint!

We can't just keep it to the topic at hand, here's what else we provided color commentary on in this episode:

  • Slavery letter writing activity at Purvis Middle School
  • Chris Harrison's messy ass not leaving The Bachelor - plus the Women Tell All
  • Matt James still can't kiss
  • Some crazy ass Shark Tank aphrodisiac bar
  • Oprah's interview with Meghan and Harry hasn't aired and the royal family is trippin'
  • Cultural Appropriation
  • Asian-American violence

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Tamu: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] welcome to Bad at Love Podcast

Aaron: [00:00:41] this is not bad at love Podcast. Ma'am

that was awesome.

Tamu: [00:00:53] Let's try that again.

Aaron: [00:00:55] Awesome. [00:01:00]

Tamu: [00:01:01] Welcome to When the bill Comes Due. I think I'm still Tamu think so. I think I am.

It's been a long day.

Aaron: [00:01:22] No, it's sweat and goddamn. You know where you do that. The ugly black cry where you just sweat you sweating out your collard greens and everything. That is me right now. Oh my God. We're gonna have to get naked up in here.

Oh, my God. I'm like, I can't even see Tamu I'm crying over here.

Oh my God.

Tamu: [00:01:52] All of it's going in.

Aaron: [00:01:58] Oh Lord. [00:02:00] It's going to be a long night. I could tell.

Tamu: [00:02:04] Who are you?

Aaron: [00:02:19] My name.

Oh, it is. Oh my God. That is so fun. Oh, I'm Aaron. Hey y'all  I used to work at the national institutes of health. Shout out to building 31 floor seven. And one time my boss got this random text message she sent him a text message and he's like new phone who, this

Tamu: [00:02:46] what year was it?

Aaron: [00:02:47] like 2000, 2000, maybe 10, nine or 10.

And he was like, this Tyrone. I used to send her text messages like this Tyrone who dis anyway. 

Tamu: [00:02:59] I, uh, [00:03:00] threw Aaron for a loop through myself for a loop fruit loop loop.

Aaron: [00:03:03] Holy shit. Tell me about your week.

Tamu: [00:03:07] Well, my week was just grand.

Aaron: [00:03:09] Tell me more.

Tamu: [00:03:12] I'm not going to bore all of us with the bullshit that's continuing to happen. Let's just say that it's still a continuation of last week where, I'm thinking we're over this. And of course my boss is like, Oh, here's the recap of all of the things that I told you that you did wrong last week, this week.

Aaron: [00:03:31] Talking about retraumatization.

Tamu: [00:03:34] At least I stuck up for myself a little bit and responded to some of the incoherence of what she said and backed up my stuff with actual facts and things that we had discussed that perhaps we both misheard and misunderstood. 

Aaron: [00:03:47] communication is key. Right? tell me something good about your week.

Tamu: [00:03:53] I made it to Friday.

[00:04:00] Aaron: [00:04:00] Was actually a better response than what I was expecting you to say to me, like, bitch, fuck you. 

Tamu: [00:04:04] I have Fridays off and I made it to my day off and I do until the middle of April, because I have to use up all of the rest of my vacation time.

Aaron: [00:04:17] burn that shit. I got it. I got it. It's nice though. It's intense and especially working from home and being at home in my case, being at home with. All of this loveliness can be a lot. So yeah, I hear you, SIS. 

Tamu: [00:04:35] Well, I mean, and where else am I going to go? 

Aaron: [00:04:37] go to Texas

Tamu: [00:04:38] I could go to Texas or the others is at 17 other States that have taken their mask mandates off.

Aaron: [00:04:44] 17. Oh my God. I

Tamu: [00:04:46] it was 17.

Aaron: [00:04:47] really. I went to bed last night and it was only two shit.

Tamu: [00:04:51] I saw some people burning masks today in Boise.

Aaron: [00:04:55] What is going on? this is? [00:05:00] I don't understand. This is not like some amazing movement. I don't understand.

Tamu: [00:05:05] basically we're just going to still be stuck in this shit for another fucking year because these idiots can't keep it together for three months

Aaron: [00:05:13] I think it's Florida where the spring breakers are.  I am ready to get out. I'm at home all the time. I am at home all the time. There's no point in going anywhere, in my opinion, I'm at home all the time. And I want to be able to return to something that is more normal than what we're doing now.

And I just don't understand this crazy need to be, I dunno, what, like, and that your rights are being infringed upon that this is like some sort of like conspiracy, no one's dying. If you wear a mask, it's that simple. 

Tamu: [00:05:49] No one is actually dying.

Aaron: [00:05:50] And if you don't want to wear a mask, stay the fuck at home and door dash your shit, go to the grocery store,

Tamu: [00:05:56] Well, I have my rights to go to target dammit,

Aaron: [00:05:58] guess.

So we'll pick it [00:06:00] up. You can pick it up, use the app.

Tamu: [00:06:03] and I need to get to the restaurant, but my kids don't have to go to school. Cause fuck it. I need to get my drunk on

Aaron: [00:06:10] I read something here, Maine, they're opening States, Connecticut, new England, blah, blah, blah. If you have a negative COVID tests, it's very complex, but, Some of the revenue they're funding.

I think it's like some of the measures of vaccine and stuff. They're funding these measures solely because of. Alcohol sales. And I don't even know what they're funding. It was something good. Trust me. But like that was their point. They said, this is all being funded through alcohol sales. And I thought, well, that's absolutely true because I'm constantly recycling beer cans.

And so is the rest of Portland. Right. It's amazing. Why can't we think of shit like that for  homeless people?

Tamu: [00:06:53] no one cares about homeless people and people care about drinking.

people picked alcohol over their kids to go back to [00:07:00] school. So they'd rather go to the bar and pass. COVID

Aaron: [00:07:03] Education continues to be the least priority. We have seen it throughout our entire lives. That education has been defunded and just not prioritized nothing hits home more than everything about this. And the fact that it's like an afterthought, Oh, let's move the teachers up to get vaccinated, you know?

Oh, we forgot about them.

Tamu: [00:07:23] yeah.

Aaron: [00:07:23] It's very sad. I've  never understood that  here we've passed this bill, which if I understand correctly, there, there is some education funding in that bill, but like we've passed all these crazy things. Right. Over decades, years existence in America and education is the least.

Funded.  It's the least priority. I shouldn't say maybe at one point it was funded.  But who knows, it's not a priority and how are we to be top of the world,  competing with the rest if we don't even have our shit together over here, you know?

Tamu: [00:07:55] I figured it like this once sandy hook happened, when [00:08:00] they kill babies white babies. and they couldn't even be bothered to start doing something with gun control at that point in time, 

that's when I knew that it was all over for the kids.

Aaron: [00:08:11] That's probably true. You're probably right. Sad state of affairs America. What are we getting into today?

Tamu: [00:08:16] I sent you a text that has my great moment in white history or in white America because the hits keep on coming with people, trying to teach about slavery in school.

Aaron: [00:08:28] no, I didn't see this one. 

Tamu: [00:08:30] a mostly white school in Purvis, Mississippi. Thought it was a good idea to ask kids to pretend to be slaves. And they were doing a slave letter writing activity. 

Pretend like you are a slave working on a Mississippi plantation, write a letter to your family. Back in Africa, or in another American state describing your life. You may discuss the journey to America as well as the day-to-day tasks you perform. You may also want to  tell about the family you [00:09:00] live with slash work for and how you pass your time when you aren't working.

Write At least three paragraphs. Five sentences in your letter.

This was an eighth grade class at Purvis middle school in Mississippi. This was this week. March, 2021.  Still last week, we talked about kindergarteners in Delaware, learning to do the boat pose like the slaves did, who wanted to come to America to become slaves?

Aaron: [00:09:34] I don't even know this teacher or whoever, the, both of these teachers really you don't even know if they're coming at a place of like, trying to be. I know,

Tamu: [00:09:43] Don't even give it to

Aaron: [00:09:44] yes, I understand that piece. But what I'm saying is people are getting it wrong.

They're getting it completely wrong. And who on God's green earth decided or came to their thought process and said, this is a good idea to [00:10:00] bring to children and to talk about it's insane to me that people aren't like second guessing themselves or saying, you know, maybe I should. I don't know, get a real history book or color a picture instead, , like it's just crazy to me that this continues to happen

Tamu: [00:10:14] the only way this works is as a science experiment or some kind of psychology experiment to see what these kids think slavery actually was. Cause if they're writing a letter to say, Oh, you know what, things are great here in my spare time, what I get to do is run around in the fields and Massas cotton and then make the Massas food and then eat the Massas scraps.

And then make the Massas clothes and birth, the Massas babies, and breastfeed the Missy's baby. I mean, come on.

Aaron: [00:10:45] I hear

Tamu: [00:10:46] It's 2021.

Aaron: [00:10:47] I hear you.

Tamu: [00:10:48] This is bullshit. I didn't have to do assignments about slavery and fucking public school.

Aaron: [00:10:53] I didn't. Yeah, we barely did anything. Shit memorized, Texas history and useless [00:11:00] information. But now all of a sudden, there's this insane focus on the journey of the slave. That's not even a lesson, man. Lesson in empathy. That's a lesson in cruelty.

Tamu: [00:11:08] Is it to desensitize or nullify or what? When it's time to discuss the Holocaust, are you going to have the students write a letter to their families from concentration camps to say what they did today and the fact that maybe they didn't die today, but they saw all their friends and their other families and loved ones. Get killed. Like what the fuck?

Aaron: [00:11:29] My kid's school and,  all around the school district, as far as I know, they all posted  black lives matter signs in their windows and flags and stuff. There's one part of me that thinks. Okay, so this is  bandwagon bullshit, but there's a part of me also that believes that, ,  for the kids of color, that's important to see, you 

Tamu: [00:11:49] well, they feel safe. 

Aaron: [00:11:50] Right.

Exactly. When I first saw it,  I felt some type of way about it.  But then I put myself in the shoe, like if I were kids going to the school and all of this is [00:12:00] happening around me and I'm a little black kid seeing black men killed,  I'd want to feel safe and yes, you're right.

I'm sorry. I'm just, you know, I'm

Tamu: [00:12:08] no,

Aaron: [00:12:09] I have a penis. I'm sorry. I have daughters.

Tamu: [00:12:11] but who cares?

Aaron: [00:12:12] I love my daughters

We talk about that it's all the time, the fact that no one's going to do it right. But  this was just asinine, this was just ignorant.  It's ignorance. There's no sensitivity involved in that. It's ignorance.

Tamu: [00:12:22] Maybe, maybe, maybe they're trying to have these kids put themselves in the place  of slaves to understand how horrifying it was to be. But. No,  

Aaron: [00:12:35] it's fucked up.

Tamu: [00:12:36] it's a gift that keeps on giving. 

 I know you wanted to touch on the bachelor, so

Aaron: [00:12:40] Oh, yeah. So have you been watching

Tamu: [00:12:42] no, I read about,  they tell all happened. The women tell all happened.

Aaron: [00:12:47] I think everything about the bachelor season is lame. It's bullshit. We're getting a shitty version of it. It's the first time I've seen it and it's shit I'm done.

Tamu: [00:12:55] yes, you are correct. Now I've been watching married at first sight. [00:13:00] Bitch, you need to get into

Aaron: [00:13:02] I know.

Tamu: [00:13:03] Child, I'm ready to throw shit at the TV and go down to Atlanta and find this man, Chris and beat his ass

earrings off Vaseline on my face. Ready 

Aaron: [00:13:13] to box  okay. I'm going to catch up now. 

Tamu: [00:13:15] Back to the bachelor, Chris Harrison had said that, he's not stepping down forever. He's going to be back. 

Aaron: [00:13:23] he's.

under contract and then bitches, ain't gone pay him out.

Tamu: [00:13:27] Once he's done with his racism rehab he's already done his apology tour with Michael Strahan on good morning America. So

Aaron: [00:13:35] Can we talk about the fact that every time a white person needs to apologize, they go to a black interviewer, like WTF,

Tamu: [00:13:42] yeah. It's the same way. Politicians have to go up to Harlem and eat in Sylvia's or whatever, to get the black people votes,

Aaron: [00:13:52] I guess it's sad. It's very sad.

Tamu: [00:13:54] whether you choose to believe that it's true is up to you.

Aaron: [00:13:57] It's very

Tamu: [00:13:58] I don't, because I [00:14:00] think that he's,

Aaron: [00:14:01] You say what you say?

Tamu: [00:14:03] he's just saying what he needs to say.  They've gone through media training. And now he, knows how to address the situation a little bit better than he did when he was talking to Rachel Lindsey,

She's accepted his apology.

Aaron: [00:14:14] whatever.

Tamu: [00:14:14] She's back on Instagram because she was being harassed for no reason other than,  being a black woman and calling him out on his bullshit. Again, speaking up. 

Aaron: [00:14:23] I kind of gave up on the bachelor, after I read the spoiler  think when I first watched the first episode, I was excited because like I thought, Oh, it's going to be different. And I don't know, like there would be like some cultural spin to it and it was not.

I keep telling my daughter this and my son, cause we watched it together. Our 15 year olds. This is our family bonding every Tuesday. I said the main reason why this bothers me is that there are 30 something girls pining over this man. and what is this saying to my daughter?

This is saying, you need to run after a man. No, you do not need to run after a man.

Tamu: [00:14:58] let's dig down [00:15:00] deeper. She's not going to get that man. Anyway, because he's going to pick someone who doesn't look like her.

Aaron: [00:15:04] right. Cause he likes brunettes with straight hair with the good hair that he was going to go with her though. Actually I thought maybe it 

Tamu: [00:15:15] I knew he wasn't a big anybody with any drop of melanin in them. So number one, because he made that statement very clear in the beginning. I don't want to feel like I have to pick a black person. In reading the recap. A lot of the women were,  remarking to him about being blindsided because he told everybody the same bullshit.

Like I see my future with you. And then he stuck his tongue down their throats or whatever. so they all thought that he was into them way more than he actually was because he was lying because he's a 17 year old boy.

Aaron: [00:15:48] And he doesn't know how to kiss. That's a whole other Oprah show.

Tamu: [00:15:50] There was a piece I think it must've been the end of that tell all, where they went through clips of him,  kissing with his eyes open.

Aaron: [00:15:57] Yes, creepy. I saw [00:16:00] that it was very creepy, incredibly creepy.

Tamu: [00:16:02] And now he has a beard.

Aaron: [00:16:04] Yeah. Whatever. I'm so over him, whatever.

Tamu: [00:16:07] I think it's next week or the week after next, or they do the, after the final Rose

Aaron: [00:16:12] Oh, I was watching, shark tank, they have this, man on here.

Selling this aphrodisiac bar it's called his and her aphrodisiac bar. And everybody was basically like, no, you know, like they were like, well, we lost our job. We were furloughed. And all of them were like, bitch, you need a job.

You do not need to be making sex bars. of course I'm paraphrasing. So anyway, this he literally started crying. He's like, I need to tell you a story. And he starts telling the story about how he lost his job and found out that they had a small tumor in his head and he still had it.

Tamu: [00:16:46] Okay. So it's a white man.

Aaron: [00:16:49] Yes. And it was like this incredible Karen moment let me just say this. I don't want to discount his experience. I really wish him well, I hope he's healed. I don't know when this [00:17:00] was recorded and  I hope that everybody's okay.

And they have a job. I truly do mean that, but. That was his pitch. That was how he's gonna, he had one person left. I think it was Barbara. That was his pitch. And I just thought, Oh my God, why?  What did you think that was going to do? And it wasn't even, I shouldn't say wasn't real.

Look, it didn't look real. I didn't see tears, that's a fragility moment that they had on live TV. And I can't say that we probably would have been like, get the fuck outta here. We said, no.

Tamu: [00:17:32] they would have been like, get the fuck outta here. We said, no, it was us.

Aaron: [00:17:37] Yes, no, that's what I'm saying. They won't like security get these two brownies out of here. Yeah. I don't know.

Tamu: [00:17:47] Power and white tears.

Aaron: [00:17:48] it's true. It's true. God, I just watch everything so differently. 

Tamu: [00:17:51] I was thinking about your layers because of all the things that are going on with me at work, I've had some people like my friend Kelli who  the year [00:18:00] before, last, basically resigned because she was being treated like shit and was like, fuck it.

I'm outta here. And. They found another job for her outside of our team. And she was able to stay within our company. And I'm just thinking about me. I know that the situation and the timing is different because of the pandemic and those sorts of things. But I'm just thinking to myself, the same people who helped her, aren't doing backflips to try to necessarily help me a hundred percent. Like they're offering to Oh, if I find something I hear about something, I'll definitely let you know, 

Aaron: [00:18:35] The effort is different.

Tamu: [00:18:37] thank you. it's something that has happened always. Right.  Maybe I didn't pay it. Try not to pay attention to it or it just let it go. But I noticed the difference in that this time around

Aaron: [00:18:50] Yeah, it's funny, you mentioned that too, because I many times in my life I've found a different job or whatever, and they always stopped short of. Anything I [00:19:00] can do to change your mind. It's always like, Oh, Take care. You were so great. You're amazing in corporate world, especially you grow up hearing about these like, well, girl, I got a job and then I said, I quit.

And they came back and they matched the offer and they didn't want to lose me and blah, blah, blah. And maybe it's just a different work environment. I hate that. I'm making excuses for people when I really know what the issue is, but I can honestly say and I'm not trying to be vain here.

Everybody loves Aaron, but no one wanted him to stay 

Tamu: [00:19:34] funniest thing was I declined the job that I currently have and my old boss called me and said, I really want you here. you've got, so much potential. I want you here. what was the problem? What can we do? What can I clarify for you to get you to come here? Granted. She didn't give me the extra money that I was asking for. But the fact that she called me back, that's never happened to me [00:20:00] before.

Aaron: [00:20:00] I always have dreams of being  some executive, and then like, I'll have  some of like, bitch I'm taking you with me. We're going, I'm going to do that one day. I'm going to be like, you're coming with me. I refuse to take this off unless you take her to.

 You can't help, but draw those. Parallels and comparisons, everything that you're saying now about  your work shit and  everything we've talked about,  they're, real-world examples today. Not just work,  I'm thinking about this whole Meghan Markle and, I don't know the queen Kensington, palace, whoever the fuck they are, their whole debacle, how they're trying to get in front of this whole interview thing.

They're investigating Megan about some bullying incidents. Whereas Andrew fucking raped, allegedly

Tamu: [00:20:44] a 16 year old

Aaron: [00:20:45] and there's no investigation, but this black woman infiltrates the castle. I,  see these happenings,  all the time, you see these comparisons, again, I go back to the insurrection to do you fucking see, those guys walked [00:21:00] out of there, they walked. Out of there,

Tamu: [00:21:02] some of them were helped down the stairs.

Aaron: [00:21:05] they walked out of there and  look at the response to a black lives matter protest in DC compared to what you saw at the state Capitol. There are signs all around us and you could sit here and say, Oh my God, this is isolated. And why does it have to be about race? Because it is about race.

Tamu: [00:21:22] I think the sooner we all say. What's the truth. Then the quicker we will all get through this and it's been 400 years already. So maybe it's time. 

Aaron: [00:21:33] For real y'all none of us did this, but we have to put it to bed and we have to tell

Tamu: [00:21:37] Yeah, because it's the historical trauma that we are carrying with us and perpetuating, and it just keeps bastardizing itself and making into a blurry, nasty copy where we can't read the words anymore and it's got to stop.

Aaron: [00:21:50] yup. Yup. If you look around systemic racism is everywhere in everything around the world. Oh, my goodness. All right. We got to [00:22:00] end this. This is too much.

Tamu: [00:22:01] we can end it now.

today, the topic is.  I want to say when the bill comes due, not being able to express your true self as a person of color, In the workplace and beyond quite frankly.

Aaron: [00:22:16] I think I said the fear of speaking up in the workplace, right? I was thinking about it, because of your work situation, but also just like my work situation in the past.  In previous positions, I've been a manager and there's  this in every corporate structure, there's this unspoken sort of like people fear.  Leaders, and fear speaking up or having ideas. And so we all work for these companies are like, speak up. You have great ideas. We want to hear from you. Having said all that people do not speak up.

And I think as with everything in society,  it's compounded for people of color. You can't speak up because as a woman you're too angry,  [00:23:00] and me as a black man. I am angry or angry. We're all angry, I guess, but I'm an angry black man.  If I show that level of emotion or if people, have an off day and if I have an off day, it's like personified, right?

Like. Oh my God. whoa  I can think certainly of situations where I could have said something and I'm thinking like, whether it was, , something you saw that was ethically wrong, or someone made an off the cuff black joke, I will tell one of my things that kill me, is, when I lived in Minnesota,  people,  in meetings would say, let's have a powwow.

Tamu: [00:23:33] They did.

Aaron: [00:23:34] they did I all the time, people were like, let's have a powwow, let's have a quick powwow in the huddle room. And then the other thing was guru, which we say a lot. In fact, that call we were on today, someone said guru, and I think that's racist.

Tamu: [00:23:48] That they were a guru

Aaron: [00:23:50] No, that they're saying guru.

Tamu: [00:23:51] What's the context 

Aaron: [00:23:53] That's like Indian culture. Isn't it?

Tamu: [00:23:54] I don't know, I get it though. I get how everybody is sensitive about their cultures [00:24:00] and the appropriation of the said cultures. And if I'm going to be pissed off about people, appropriating black, Hispanic culture, then I have to respect other people's cultural appropriations as well, and try my best not to do that.

 I used to say  the unicorn is our spirit animal, and Mallory, my friend and cohost of the podcasts that I mentioned earlier. Was like, you know what? Spirit animal is derogatory. Don't use it because that is derogatory to native Americans. And I was like, Oh, okay.

Aaron: [00:24:29] I didn't even know that.

Tamu: [00:24:30] Right. So unicorns are just unicorns, fictitious animals. That happened to spread rainbows and joy and sparkle.  I understand 100 percent I mean, Rihanna is in trouble right now, in India. Culturally appropriating, they're gods and goddesses in her Fenty promotions.

So I get it.

Aaron: [00:24:50] I didn't even know that.

Tamu: [00:24:52] she had to apologize and all that again.  I think it's not fair for us to think that we're the only ones who, [00:25:00] suffer  we're guilty just as guilty of cultural appropriation as white people are. Right. So we just all need to acknowledge it and just say, Hey. Thank you for telling me, and that will not happen again.

Aaron: [00:25:11] There's a huge  emphasis, obviously on the black experience in America. And there, there are lots of horrible things happening to people of color, the horrible Asian community violence. I struggle with this because. I have a very diverse group of friends and family, et cetera.  I feel like our issue is important. I also believe that their issues and their cultures and their challenges are seen as well, 

Tamu: [00:25:40] It's wrong too. Assault anybody, what I'm seeing and reading are people assaulting old people, let them be old Asians, black people, old whatevers leave the elderly alone.

Let's give them the respect that they deserve, but let's give everybody the respect that they deserve because. We don't like it when it happens to us. And [00:26:00] I'm seeing video clips of black people attacking Asian 

not for nothing. My father refused to order food from the Chinese restaurant after COVID started for stupid reasons.

Because they could have brought somebody here from China and they could have COVID

Aaron: [00:26:21] I got it. Okay. Oh

Tamu: [00:26:23] stupid reason. And no matter how much, maybe at a certain point in time, he just started fucking with me or thought it was fun, do that, but it's not okay. It's not okay. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about you're being ignorant. But that's the ignorance that's happening everywhere to not just us, but to other people because of stupid, stereotypical, crazy notions and bullshit.

And it's not a cool, I don't care who you are.

Aaron: [00:26:51] There's always a stigma, right? There's a highlight of the disparity.

And the diverse disproportionalities within. [00:27:00] Communities.  And then there's always like this stereotype that comes with it, right? Like, Oh my God, you're black. You have COVID  or, Oh my God, you are Asian. You have COVID or you're minority. You have COVID I would imagine , in the gay community too, there was definitely,  a stigma amongst all black, probably Latino, people of color in gay clubs, that they had AIDS, they were sick, et cetera, to same thing or anything.

Well, that was a good little segue to talk about.

Sorry. I had to get that out. So talk to me a little bit when you're in a work situation,  whether you choose to share or not like what prevents you from, let's say you're in a meeting with your boss and he, or she has said, this is crap.

Let's do it again. And you're sitting there thinking, well bitch I worked for 20 hours on this. This is what you asked me to do. And now you're telling me to rework it. What the whole fuck you that's you want to say right?

Tamu: [00:27:58] I think it depends like the [00:28:00] relationship I had with my previous boss. I could be like, what the hell woman? Like, what do you want? we had a different report where we could have conversations like that.  I trusted her and she actually trusted me and we had a mature ish working relationship.

But that was just her now in the broader scope of everybody, because that's who I am. I like to observe people and see what they're saying, how they're responding to things and also how they're reacting to different people, including myself. So I like to observe the room to get a gauge before I feel like I can make a comment.

I work in a medical device field. Everybody's like a doctor  an MD, a PhD, a pharm D or whatever the fuck. Right. So they're all super smart people, which can be intimidating I mean, I'm probably a pop culture genius, but I'm not a genius in  Medical devices.

Like they don't hold a candle to me in terms of like pop culture [00:29:00] things. But also I can't like hold a candle to them for what they do. Therefore, I don't feel like we have a lot in common. also because when they talk about the things that they like to do for fun, I'm like, what the fuck? That's boring as fuck.

So whatever fine. but we can also mutually respect one another . I've never really felt like I have been able to have a voice. In working situations because of my position. So for example, I've been an administrative assistant and in an admin role, no one gives a shit about what you have to say.

They don't think you're educated. They just want you to get their coffee, put their dry cleaning in their car, make copies answer their phone calls and  try to get some FaceTime with your boss. I would say you're considered not really a person.

Aaron: [00:29:47] Did help.

Tamu: [00:29:47] for me, coming from experiences where I either have started off that way and moved up or. Use that platform to level myself into a different place or to [00:30:00] leapfrog into something else. Like when we met, I was a contractor and not being an admin, but I ended up taking an admin position to get my foot in the door. And then getting shat upon and being completely  beaten down. No one gives a shit about what you have to say. No one ever asks you what your thoughts are because you couldn't possibly have anything to contribute. And. That's okay. I don't really feel like I have to contribute to anything that you people want to have to say or do or anything about you because you don't respect the fact that just because I'm in this particular role, it doesn't mean I'm less educated than you or don't have cogent, coherent thoughts that are valuable.

But because of just my title, that's what makes you think that I. Less than you. so coming into this next position where I am in my current role, people felt like I had a lot of good ideas and I felt more comfortable to share because I was supported by my old boss and my other boss, this bitch. Now I don't feel that way with, and in light of everything [00:31:00] has happened after the uprisings here in the summer.

I don't want to say anything.  I'm just sitting, watching, I'm observing how everybody else is reacting to things and listening to, what they're saying, what they're saying is not making me feel comfortable to  provide opinions I don't want to talk to you about.

Anything, because you're not making me feel supported. You're making me feel like you're phony and trying to check a box, or you're just plain old racist. I have to think about the fact that I am a black woman in a very white world, and I have to think about are they going to consider me angry  even with the situation going on now, if I stand up for myself, am I being angry? I had to make sure that my words and my response, wasn't defensive or, making it look like I'm not at fault, this ain't my fault. This is your fault.

There's a lot that goes into every single, every single communication that I do. Every [00:32:00] interaction that I have, it's exhausting. and yes, as a woman in general, you have to go through probably half of it. The other half of it, you don't have to go through because you're a white woman.

Aaron: [00:32:13] I've been an admin role and race agnostic. It is a horrible place to be. You are the bottom of the  totem pole, however, I believe it's compounded by the fact that you are a person of color in that position.

While it is, a shitty position, period, it's even shittier. It can be for people of color

 I think  at the levels that we are now, in corporate structures, You carry that shit with you, I will say for myself, it's a constant battle with myself that your ideas are important that, you know, just fucking say it, that people say dumb shit all the time.

 These are the internal battles I have with myself, but actually like being in a room, just like you with doctors, I have every right to be there, but. I'm made to [00:33:00] feel as if I don't belong there at all, and that happens every single day, every single day. Even in my current role while everyone's been welcoming, there's still this. there's an intimidation or there's a culture I don't know what it is.  I don't feel comfortable enough to speak out or to question things. However, I will say that I believe now, and at this time period in our lives, for me, it is incredibly liberating to say something and I have moments with people, not really bosses, but I've had moments with people where I'm like, listen, don't call my boss. You called me. If you need something, which I think we all go through that to some degree, I have zero problems talking to people about the fact that they need to be uncomfortable and that they need to talk about shit.

And I know that it makes people incredibly uncomfortable, but when are we at whenever else, are we going to talk about it? So I enjoy having [00:34:00] those conversations, but I also think too, as people of color. I think people want to hear from us now. I do.  We have to break through our own self, but also be brave enough to, I don't know, have that idea or speak out in that way, but it's scary and it's not always a positive experience for people you disagree.

I can tell.

Tamu: [00:34:20] I just feel that, this is a time for not us to be doing that work

Aaron: [00:34:26] Well, of course. Yes.

Tamu: [00:34:28] if they want to have a conversation about something, then they should be doing the work. I shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable in a situation because it's something for you to be learning how to do and how to figure it out.

Aaron: [00:34:40] Yes. I

Tamu: [00:34:41] That's my issue.

Aaron: [00:34:43] I mean, in, in the sense that now we are charged with educating every single white person in the world,  on black culture . I do believe it is the the companies and the non people of colors, responsibility, to educate themselves to [00:35:00] start the  I think for many years, people of color have just sort of. taken it with, I don't know what the saying is like taking it on the chin and we're all fucking tired now, but everybody wants like, Oh my God, what about X, Y, and Z and blah, blah, blah. And yeah. How about you facilitate this conversation?

No. How about you facilitate this conversation? I'm happy to join and add to the conversation and let y'all know what's what, but  I agree with you there and  by no means do I mean that we need to walk in there and start these conversations,  I would say it's everybody's responsibility, but.

Mostly. And importantly, now it is non-people color's responsibility to have real and honest conversations.

Tamu: [00:35:42] there's another component to this, which is, bias. Understanding that we all have biases and that we should all be working to try to understand what those are and move past them. I think that a lot of the issue in [00:36:00] relation to black women and perhaps, black men as well, or homosexuals across the spectrum, Not wanting to speak up is because they're concerned about different biases from people.

If you, Aaron decided to say, Hey, I'm not happy with something like this, are they going to say, Oh, Aaron is pissed off because it's something about gay this and gay that. And then if you start to come at somebody in a specific way, are they going to just assume that you're doing that because you're a gay man and you're just like, Listen, bitch, listen, bitch, listen.

But you know what I mean? Or for the same example for me, I have the biggest issue walking into the office, wearing a headscarf? I had the biggest issue walking in, in African print, what does that say? What am I communicating to people? What are they going to absorb as a result of that?

Are they going to feel that I am, trying to make a statement? are they going to feel that I am, making a political statement? Like what, what [00:37:00] exactly.

Aaron: [00:37:00] I'm sorry. So you're saying those are your internal thoughts. Oh, okay.

Tamu: [00:37:04] Yeah. Where are these people thinking about it? These are the things that happen  every single day. I'm assuming I'm going to just assume for you. But we all used to have to physically go into the office, what we wear, what our hair looks like, how we speak, how we walk.

Aaron: [00:37:21] car. We drive.

Tamu: [00:37:22] Everything. Right. All of these things, project something to people. And for some reason it projects something that is, I don't want to say it's not negative, but it's something that is adverse to them or something that they feel is threatening almost in a way. How dare you embrace your africanness or how dare you just be you? How dare you just be a regular gay man running around in these streets? 

Aaron: [00:37:51] I've had people tell me just really subtly, you're really great at what you do. And , you're great when it's [00:38:00] important, but  you just need to know when to pull back which I agree with. 

Tamu: [00:38:03] That's a microaggression.

Aaron: [00:38:05] It is absolutely.

In my world it's called code switching. We all know. But what that person was saying to me was that, Hey, You're a little bit too flaming. Can you like Butch it up a little bit or whatever, and I've never changed anything about myself. I literally walk into interviews and say, I have moved here because my husband's job brought us here.

If that's the fucking problem, kick rocks, we don't need to work together, It is a microaggression, right. Or people like, sort of dim your light just a little bit. if you were a little more professional or you're a little more this, or, you know, just little like keys to the keys, to the kingdom, they say, but really in truly they're saying they want you to change who you are because you'll never get anywhere because X, Y, and Z.

Tamu: [00:38:47] in prep for this conversation, I was reading a Harvard business review article about what it's like to be black in the workplace. And this [00:39:00] one gentleman was saying that, he was  top of everything,  the highest achiever or higher earner in his company,  but he kept getting passed up for promotions  when he got the feedback, they said, we don't really know you. You're not, you don't really speak up and say who you are. And so then he had to start going to  events and letting people into his personal life. And then it started to open up doors for him that has happened to me where I am currently, where My boss has said to me, not this one previously, these other people don't know who you are.

 And I've had those people say that to me. Like,  I don't really know much about you cause I haven't really worked with you. if my reputation stands on reputation, stands what difference does it make? if two out of three people say I'm amazing, I'm amazing.

What do you need to know?

Aaron: [00:39:46] right. Even that statement, it's almost like, well, what is it exactly I know. People that are more of a recluse and I could ever be, and their CEO of the company.

Tamu: [00:39:59] let's [00:40:00] distill it down again. I'm fairly confident you've had this either run through your mind. I know I do our growing up life is not white. People's growing up. life for the most part.

Aaron: [00:40:13] Sure absolutely.

Tamu: [00:40:14] most of the people I encounter at least living here in Minnesota and living in this corporate environment, nine times out of 10, if I say. My parents were teenage pregnant. My daddy is a pothead and we grew up, poor and we've moved from place to place a place to place it's not a story that resonates and it's not like something that's super happy.

Your mom dying early of cancer, that might be something people can resonate with. All these other things that have gone on in my life and how I've grown up.

I don't think that that's something that people want to really know. Because it's not something they can grasp,  I think about that when I'm in groups of people who are not white, not everybody gets. the things that we've had to [00:41:00] experience growing up, because it's just not their experience.  

Aaron: [00:41:03] I've gone to many lunches  and  it just turns into these conversations of especially in Minnesota,  Oh my God, I'm going on a Lake home or my parents do this.

Or we have a place in Dallas, which, as I'm here, sitting here and listening to this. Someone's probably listening to this perhaps and saying, well, you're just jealous. Trust me, I'm not jealous. I have no envy at all in that situation. And because I have what I have, because I worked very hard for what I have and I make no apologies, but I think it's more of the insensitivity.

To wanting to understand somebody else's background and culture and being okay with where they came from. we have friends from many different backgrounds, single mothers, broken homes, all of the above and I relate to them.

I understand them. I understand their struggle. And it's not how I grew up. Frankly, but I understand their struggle and I want to know and understand their struggle because, I recognize, that everybody goes through [00:42:00] shit, my life has not been perfect. Your life has not been perfect.

And I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that it has, but if we all can't come with some level of understanding or wanting to understand the other person's perspective, perhaps the challenges or the things that make them who they are. Then what is the point?

Tamu: [00:42:18] right.

 Myself as an example for the opposite of that there are some friends of mine that I have that I just assume that they had a really privileged, amazing life finding out  that's not the a lot of the time you have a lot more in common with people than you actually think.

Once you start to take all of the. walls down and really start to hear people and listen to what they have to say. I found that I've been fortunate  to have the people in my life that I consider friends and family, to be people who. I might not have chosen initially.

We might've had friction in the past, but something has happened where here we are. To know that, Oh my God, you have a crazy obsessive parent. Just [00:43:00] like I do . And they have their own issues. It's I don't want to say humbling, but it's a great equalizer to me.

It's a good way for me to realize that, huh? Okay. So just because this person is sitting here living a more privileged life than me, there are points where we can relate on the spectrum.

Aaron: [00:43:20] Absolutely. I have a really good friend who, lives in Colorado and we used to work in Minnesota together at this corporate retail giant.  We both interviewed on the same day, which just happened to be her birthday, I think. I remember sitting there looking at her and she tells this story all the time, because it's just, it's a true story.

 I thought she was a bitch, she was a white girl and I just thought you was a bitch. I was just like, yeah, we will never. Ever hang out, ever turns out. She's one of my best friends. She's amazing heart. When I met her it wasn't  that  this white girl had a better, it wasn't that it was just that [00:44:00] I had an impression of her.

When I got to know her, I fucking loved her. I love her still, she lost her father when she was 11. We have very many commonalities so for her, their family is very close. They've seen tragedy, they seen sadness, but they're so close and they're just so welcoming to everyone.

And I just. Love that  I love for my kids to be around it. I don't know what it was about how we formed our relationship, but like every single day, I am always grateful for that relationship. And for the fact that I said, Hey, bitch, don't turn away. 

These are good people. That's what we all have to get to . Not every, motherfucker's going to be your best friend, but there's something in there, like something in these people. That's how you get to the core of whatever the fuck's going on here.

You find something that's common. And then we began to talk about. The shit that matters, the uncomfortable conversations, you know, the real shit that happens in your life that, Oh [00:45:00] my God, I was depressed on Tuesday and I didn't feel like getting out of bed or,  I ate a whole chocolate cake and it felt fucking good for the first time in 24 years or, you know, anything like that.

We have had children. We have been married. We have been through deaths, everything together, and that's  my ride or die bitch. You're my ride or die bitch, black bitch. But that's my ride or  die.

White bitch. You know, I have many ride or die white bitches, but

Tamu: [00:45:26] That's racist.

Aaron: [00:45:27] it is kind of racist, but We have to categorize our friendships now.

Tamu: [00:45:30] We don't have to categorize our friendships. That's the point. We're not supposed to be categorizing our friendships. 

Aaron: [00:45:37] I shouldn't say that.

Tamu: [00:45:38] right.

Aaron: [00:45:39] She's my, she's my bitch. Sorry.

Tamu: [00:45:42] You can have more than one

Aaron: [00:45:43] You know who you are.

I love my girls I had this dream that I will do before I die. Maybe when I turned 50 I want to bring all of my girlfriends together to meet each other. I think it's so awesome.

Although there's a part of me that's really anxious about that because I'm like, Oh my God, these bitches going to go crazy. But no, [00:46:00] I think that'd be so lovely 

Tamu: [00:46:01] another component of this is, not going to categorize all black women, but I will categorize myself as my black-tina self. I also. Don't speak up in my own familial situations. in my family, everybody is very. Outspoken. My father is the loudest because his voice is as a deepest.

 In a matriarchal society, he's the one male. And so he's got his own issues in relation to us as women. And, growing up, I just never spoke. Up. I was always a very quiet and I just, tried to do what everybody wanted me to do.

live my life for all the rest of the people in my world,

Aaron: [00:46:42] find that hard to believe.

Tamu: [00:46:43] me. Oh yeah. That's why I have so many issues

Aaron: [00:46:49] think you're very outspoken though. At least to me anyway,

Tamu: [00:46:52] Do you remember the family that you choose you can be or who you really are, for the most part, I think, and now I'm a little bit [00:47:00] more vociferous with my own family, but I really wasn't. I was pretty quiet and, pretty much did what everybody wanted to me to do.

When the time came for me to start wanting to live my own life and do things my own way, it caused great friction and led to some violence. Then I ended up moving here, but I never had a voice  I never had an outlet to be angry.

I,  internalize a lot, which has compounded a lot of the issues that I have had with my mental health and my mental health journey as I've,  progressed through life.  A lot of the stuff has happened since I was a kid of me wanting to do self-harm and me feeling responsible for my parents being married because they got pregnant, they had to get married.

And I felt like I was responsible for all of that. And they're shit. Which is not my fault, but I took that responsibility on, I, really didn't speak up for myself at all.  Until I got, older 

when did I start going to therapy for the first time?

Aaron: [00:47:55] six years ago,

Tamu: [00:47:57] It was 2003. that's, when [00:48:00] everything happened with my ex and then. Straying that's when I went to therapy for the first time. My parents don't believe in therapy. So I never had therapy when I tried to commit suicide several times as a teenager, one time, really close to being successful.

It's always just been me trying to figure it out and having to try to make my way through but internalizing everything along the way. it's been a journey to shed a lot of that stuff and also to tune out things that can become triggers. 

Aaron: [00:48:29] I was just thinking about my own daughters when you were talking about not speaking up and how you were silent. And I got to say for myself,  I think it's a real struggle for me because, I would say  I'm tough on my daughters. more than my sons. 

I think I do struggle with. Allowing them to have a voice because, I have a 15 year old daughter and teenagers are argumentative and going through their own shit. Of course I want my daughter to have her own opinion. But I think in my mind am I protecting her from [00:49:00] something by people are gonna think you're angry  as you were talking, I'm having all these thoughts really.

Is this my subconscious way as a father to say,  this is how they treat black women daughters. So

Tamu: [00:49:12] But that doesn't mean that you have to treat your black daughter

Aaron: [00:49:15] absolutely. I, 100% agree. And  one of the statements I always make to my boys is that we are here to protect black women. There are two black women. Well, there's three, the black women in this house. Now

Tamu: [00:49:26] Welcome to Lola.

Aaron: [00:49:27] Lola. I say that all the time and again, I don't do it right. I certainly, I don't do it. Right. I certainly recognize that my daughter is a young woman growing up a young woman growing up. And as much as I want to protect her from the world, I also have to give her the opportunity to.

Fight for whatever that is.  Especially with my daughter, it's certainly changed our relationship. I hear her more or if she's just moody she gets a pass, she doesn't need a pass, but it's more of me [00:50:00] understanding that, it's hard for a black woman. It's hard for a young black woman.

 I think it's good to have that perspective  as a black father and, as a father of daughters, just to know, like it's a delicate balance because. On the one hand, I guess I'm talking my sons, which I should be talking to my daughters about not getting shot, you know? on the other hand, I'm here as a father saying daughter in order to make it in this crazy world, you can't be an angry black woman and that's really fucked up.

 I've never said that to her, but actions speak louder than words.   To fathers of black daughters, to fathers of girls in general, encouraged them to speak up,  struggle through the argument. That's a future lawyer or whatever,  I think about that all the time. 

Tamu: [00:50:43] I think the sooner,  we learn what not to do based off of what was placed upon us. The better off the next generation will be because, they don't need to carry that baggage and bring that negative [00:51:00] legacy of these stereotypes of Oh, a woman needs to be so proper all the time.

And don't, can't speak up in situations and all of these things that, I was brought up to believe. I don't know if that's the same in your experience, but We were brought up to believe a lot of things. And, they've contributed to me being the person that I am currently and why I don't necessarily feel like I always have the power to speak my full mind.

I don't want that for the future generation of young women, young black women, young women of color period, If you feel a way about something, as long as you can back that up with facts and figures and whatever you need to do, you argue that shit out of it. Yeah. You don't stop until people get it.

that's what I hope for the next generation of women of young women coming up is that they don't have to have similar experiences to what I've had. that they can just. Feel free to express themselves because it's not [00:52:00] healthy to keep all that in. I was thinking about this last night you don't have to carry that shit with you. You can speak your mind, you can speak your truth and you should feel supported and safe to do that.

It's not something that I had growing up. It's not something that my mom and growing up, it's not even something that my dad had growing up. Not my grandma. Like we can go back, no one had that, but it's time for us. From our generation forward to break that legacy, especially for our children. I don't have children, but I could break it for myself and break that within my own family.

Dynasty And praying that when the boys have children, if they have girls and I'm still alive, I can at least be that matriarchal figure that says, no, we stand up.

Aaron: [00:52:44] Dayonna and I were having an argument the other day. I made her clean the bathroom cause she was like mouthing off to me or something. And I just went up there and I was just like, what the hell?

What's going on?  In that moment, I was like, listen, I just don't want to argue all the time. And Dayonna said,  I think it's pretty normal to [00:53:00] argue and I internalized that I took it in and I just said, daughter, I hear you.

fast forward to maybe three weeks later, she's probably going to kill me for this her and Walter had gotten into a scuffle. And she was really angry at him. She wasn't, not wanting to talk to him or whatever. And I said to her, remember when we were upstairs, we were having that conversation.

I said, I want to tell you that I heard what you said to me and I 100% agree with you. It's normal for a family to have arguments. And I just said, I think this is going to blow over with you and Walter, if you take your own advice, And she just looked at me and I was like, I'm done.

Now more than ever, I am listening to my kids, listening to my daughters,  and really sensitive to it now. And just recognizing that this world was really fucked up, 

Tamu: [00:53:43] absolutely. We have to protect our young black girls and we have to protect our black women and we have to believe them and we have to support them and allow them. To flourish grow and express themselves however uncomfortable that makes [00:54:00] us, we have to allow them to do that. Give them that space so they can figure it out.

Aaron: [00:54:05] good topic.

Speaking out starts with childhood. It really does. Right?

Tamu: [00:54:10] I think, everything starts with a solid foundation in childhood and let's be real. We're carrying our legacy trauma from our families and our genetics down. it should end in our generation, we should be the ones to say, you know what? This is an off a bullshit stop.

It has to stop black, white, purple, Asian, Hispanic, native, whatever you are. All of our baggage and the trauma that we've had to experience ourselves and carry with us. It's too much baggage. And we shouldn't be putting that on our kids. They don't deserve it. They deserve to come out here and just live a life and figure shit out on their own without having to worry about all this other crap.

we owe it to them to do that.

Aaron: [00:54:54] we certainly do this world is fucked up enough. 

Tamu: [00:54:56] And they need to be able to think for themselves, [00:55:00] not to worry about if I say something wrong, not to worry about a repercussion for something, just because you're speaking your mind. If you're speaking your mind and you have a facts to back that shit up. you should be fine.

There shouldn't be any sort of ramification. You shouldn't have to feel like you're gonna suffer repercussion from it and you shouldn't have to feel it even within your own family that you're not supported and you're not safe being able to make these, arguments or, to have a debate. It ends with us

Aaron: [00:55:31] Amen. Amen.

Tamu: [00:55:32] any last thoughts?

Aaron: [00:55:34] I love my daughters I love my children

Tamu: [00:55:36] Okay.

Aaron: [00:55:36] speak up at work. Fuck it. What have you got to lose a paycheck? Fuck it.

Tamu: [00:55:41] bitch. A paycheck in a pandemic.

Aaron: [00:55:43] True. Yeah, don't do that. Don't

Tamu: [00:55:45] Still be smart. Still be smart.

Aaron: [00:55:47] smart. Save your coins. 

 I feel like I want to sing a song or something.

Tamu: [00:55:51] You want to do a Negro spiritual.

Aaron: [00:55:53] Let me see what I can like, let me see what I can think about. I don't know any negro spirituals.

Tamu: [00:55:59] We are going to [00:56:00] take a break and come back with the throwback

  Aaron: [00:56:14] Oh my God. Well, that was interesting. That was a lesson in homosexuality kids. 

Tamu: [00:56:19] And we're back with our throwback today, which is Sign Your Name by Terence Trent D'arby

Aaron: [00:56:25] This section of our podcast is sponsored by When the Bill Comes Due emotions have late fees too? When the bill comes due?  I'm just practicing my monetization voice

Tamu: [00:56:46] that is a man goes two podcast conventions, and now he is the expert.

Aaron: [00:56:54] So talk to me a little bit about this song.

Tamu: [00:56:57] This song is from Terence Trent Darby, [00:57:00] and his name is now Sananda Maitreya

This album was Introducing the Hardline According to Terence Trent D'arby. Released in 1987. Now, Aaron, I don't know if you remember the show called A Different World, but I remember correctly, this came out around the same time as A Different World did.

And so they would play some of his songs like when they were walking into, I want to say the peach pit, but it's not the peach, but you know what I mean?

Aaron: [00:57:31] their little co-op area.

Tamu: [00:57:33] or whatever it was. and Denise was still there. I remember seeing this video,  might've had MTV by then, but definitely had, Video Music Box, which was a local video show. That was every day on a public access channel channel 31. Video Music Box with Ralph McDaniel. They'd have certain days where they'd have  rap videos,  I think it was Fridays, [00:58:00] but in the middle of the week, they'd show non-black people video.

You got a of mix of stuff.

We just watched for video for this song. And when I was watching it, we didn't watch it together. I watched it before we started recording. I just noticed that a, he looks like he could be a part of Milli Vanilli. they came in, I think the year after him, also, he's kind of like a hybrid of Prince and Michael Jackson.

 I watched  Wishing Well, after I watched Sign Your Name and I was like, Oh my God, they really were trying to push this whole, . Prince, Michael Jackson-y thing he's  super tiny and, he has the same dance movements and, he's, light-skinned it. well, Michael was not light-skinned did

Aaron: [00:58:39] Um, he was,

Tamu: [00:58:41] At this time this was what Bad?

Aaron: [00:58:43] Yeah, he was white then 

Tamu: [00:58:44] Terrence looks or Sananda it looks more like Prince than I would say Michael Jackson, but I got the hybrid mix of the two of them together. And then I started thinking like, Oh, wait a minute, one day, Lenny Kravitz come out.

And he came out in, I think, 88 or 89 after this. [00:59:00] So it was like kind of that beginning of the

Aaron: [00:59:02] Dreadlocks light

Tamu: [00:59:03] Terence had braids like Milli Vanilli braids

Aaron: [00:59:06] Tamu you did mention that video, first of all, let me just say that I have no personal connection to the song. Terence Trent Darby. It was kind of a mind block to me when I was this age, my brother, on the other hand. Loves Terence Trent I have, , memories of him buying like the 12 inch remix of the song, and this song goes on forever.

First of all, could you imagine a 12 inch version of it? 

Tamu: [00:59:29] It's a cool beat, you know,

Aaron: [00:59:32] It's very international.

Tamu: [00:59:34] it's like, you're sitting in a cafe, or you're, in Argentina, slow dancing with somebody or you just turn it on and want to make out in somebodies apartment

Aaron: [00:59:46] yeah. Yeah. It's a sexy, it is a sexy 

I think this is a sad song. It sounds like a sad song anyway, but at least in the video too, would describe that. I think of my brother,  my brother has had his own struggles in life and, he really was [01:00:00] gravitated towards these, like these dark songs.

I consider this to be a dark it's a dark song.

Tamu: [01:00:05] What are you talking

Aaron: [01:00:06] I think it's a dark, I mean, I'm sorry. this song is more of a longing for love, right. it's sad. And then you look at the video, it's sad. What is it about.

Tamu: [01:00:16] He ends up with the lady at the end.

Aaron: [01:00:19] but like then when he was at the gay bar and then like somewhere else first, and then almost got into a fight and made out with a dude, like it's sad, you have to admit like, this is the first down low documented,


Tamu: [01:00:40] totes out of context. 

Aaron: [01:00:41] It just seems like a really dark song. Like the production, it's this really dark and mysterious and it's sexy too. But like when I think of this song and I look at the video, gay club aside, it's a dark video. He was in a legit gay club.

He literally walked into the gay [01:01:00] club and a guy looked at him. Okay. And then he goes home to this woman with his dirty mouth down low.

Tamu: [01:01:08] stop it. It's very shades of purple rain because he gets on his motorcycle bike and he rides off to the club bar bar to have a drink

Aaron: [01:01:24] gay nineties is what we're going to call it.

Tamu: [01:01:26] in France, because apparently this is supposed to be France

Aaron: [01:01:30] nineties, let me stop. Let me stop

Tamu: [01:01:39] So he goes to the bar. He almost gets into a bar fight with a guy who is just as pretty as everybody in this video. All the men look.

Aaron: [01:01:49] Grabbed this junk. Go on.

Tamu: [01:01:51] of them, all the men in this video are very pretty. He almost gets into a fight with this guy who was like trying to like flex. And then the [01:02:00] guys that are in the band jumped up cause they all have on the same kind of motorcycle jackets, except Terence's jacket is a lot more extra with like studs and like spiky, studs and stuff.

then. He's like, Oh, let me back down. Let me back down. And then he gets on his motorcycle to go to the lady's house.

Aaron: [01:02:17] right after he's had his fun with it. So what was edited out? He went to a back room, had some fun and a couple of beers that dude that was staring at him when he walked in that's who was back in back there. And then he went home to kiss her. Not okay. That's the full edit. They didn't show. It was a very bizarre video though. I have to say it's a little bizarre.

Tamu: [01:02:43] I watched this video, I watched the Wishing Well video, which is the song that he's famous for. And it's the same woman in this video. So it's kind of like a continuation.  In Wishing Well,he first meets her and then this one, it shows the continuation of what happens.

Aaron: [01:02:59] a [01:03:00] baby.

Tamu: [01:03:00] I think she had that baby

Aaron: [01:03:01] You think? I don't know. I think that was her baby. I think that was their baby. Cause she was mixed

Tamu: [01:03:06] Well, it didn't say seven years later, that little girl was like seven.

Aaron: [01:03:10] it's true. I mean, we don't really know what was going on in that video. I mean, I'm going to stick with my gay theories, just so you know.

Tamu: [01:03:16] Yes. You can totally stick with your gay theories. aside from the song you claiming being dark, I thought it was a little bit more on the romantic side of things in terms of Sign your name across my heart. I want you to be my lady. I want you to be my baby. 

Aaron: [01:03:34] I am looking at the lyrics. 

Fortunately, you have got someone who relies on you. We started out as friends, but the thought of you just caves me in the symptoms are so deep. It is much too late to turn away. We started out as friends also, maybe that's Oh, that someone else's is a boo thing, but I was thinking it was the baby actually. Let's see birds never look into the sun before the [01:04:00] day is done. 

Tamu: [01:04:01] It's not, it's not dark, but

Aaron: [01:04:04] is dark.

Tamu: [01:04:05] the video is dark, but the song itself is not

Aaron: [01:04:09] It's a love song.

Tamu: [01:04:10] Ooh, I win.

Aaron: [01:04:14] but the video was in a gay bar.

Tamu: [01:04:18] That remains to be, I understand what you mean though.

Let's wrap up. The show

Aaron: [01:04:24] let's wrap this up.

Tamu: [01:04:25] Do you want to close it out with some housekeeping or

Aaron: [01:04:28] Ah, I am so in love with you, I feel like Whitney Houston with this microphone. Can I just play for a little bit? so thanks for listening to [01:05:00] us folks. We really appreciate you. my request is to. Like us on Instagram, follow us on Instagram @whenthebillcomesdue. We are on Tik Tok @whenthebillcomesdue to send us your feedback. [email protected] like subscribe, wherever you podcast, it's very important.

We want to hear from you. We are not too proud to beg our podcasts. Exists because of you and our loyal fan base. I would like to say this opportunity to just say that Mariah Carey is the most inspirational person. Ever to walk the face of the earth, in my opinion. And I have gone an entire fucking episode without saying anything about Mariah Carey.

So I will just say that Mariah Carey has released, we belonged together the late night remix for Valentine's day. It is fucking fire. Have you heard of Tamu

Tamu: [01:05:57] I have not,  [01:06:00] no.

Well, it's really hard to. It's really tough to follow up on that. I'm just going to say that we're still in virus times and if you're living in a state in which they have now removed a mask mandate, please still wear a mask. Be smart, get your vaccines, be respectful and think of other people. Please wear masks, continue to social distance.

We're not out of the woods, people. I'll leave it there.

Aaron: [01:06:28] I would also just say, do something kind today. What do they call that? When you like buy coffee for someone behind you?

Tamu: [01:06:34] Pay it forward.

Aaron: [01:06:35] forward, pay it forward. People I'm going to pay it forward. I was supposed to make ziti tomorrow, but I'm probably not going to do that until next week. It's a lot, like I just, it's an emotional journey. It takes hours.

Tamu: [01:06:47] Bitch it is it's fucking boiling.

Aaron: [01:06:53] I make my own sauce. Fuck you very much. Well, there went your pan of ziti.. I was gonna express mail it, but you know [01:07:00] what? Fuck it.  Now you get nothing. 

All right Are you going to close this bitch out? Or what?

Tamu: [01:07:05] It's been real. It's been fun. It's been real fun.

Aaron: [01:07:08] Bye guys. Thanks for listening. Bye.