When the Bill Comes Due

Ep 15: Ride the Lightning

April 13, 2021 Aaron & Tamu Season 1 Episode 15
When the Bill Comes Due
Ep 15: Ride the Lightning
Show Notes Transcript

Well, that escalated quickly, y’all. 2020’s ugly brother is not looking good for humanity. Aaron and Tamu talk about the murder trial, optimism, fake liberals and Ping Pong! Tamu opened her Protest Playlist and we are blaring Sound of Da Police by KRS-ONE! He was dropping knowledge back in 1993 - were you listening to this throwback? Come through, take a brain break and bring all the receipts! Take time for you, always. 


Aaron:  [00:00:00] it's like the angels have lifted from the heavens all to say, bitch, where you been where you been bitch, where you been? Where you been? I you know imma make a Meg The Stallion type of album. Right? 

Tamu: Yep. That's what you're going to do. 

Aaron: I don't think the world is ready for all of this jelly, SIS.

I'm just saying,

Tamu:  I agree. 

Welcome to when the bill comes due.

[00:01:00] Aaron: I bumped my head. I'll tell you later, I'm Aaron 

Tamu: I'm Tamu and welcome back. Thank you for catching up while we've been on a little mini break because Aaron bumped his head 

Aaron: literally. 

Tamu: Literally 

Aaron: I bumped my head. I bumped my head.,

I guess this is where I have to tell the story, right? picture it. Portland Maine, 2021, I was making a nice fire for me and my family. We were watching a movie. I was, as I like to call it babysitting. Really wasn't babysitting anyway. I was putting wood in the fire and I stood up too fast and whacked my head into our mantle and, I was actually fine.

I was fine Saturday. what was really fucked up about this entire situation was that my kids did not move, did not ask how I was doing. They were glued to their fucking Disney show and I just kind of carried on, I was literally like, Oh fuck. literally dropping F-bombs,  and they were just [00:02:00] enthralled with their popcorn.

Tamu: We recorded that night. you didn't tell me that you hit your head at all. 

Aaron: That's right. I was all right on Sunday. I probably had like some light sensitivity, Monday was a whole shit show. I had never experienced it before. it was too bright. I was wearing sunglasses in the house and then I was just like,  I'm not going to look at a screen.

There's no way I could work. So I went to the doctor and I'm just kinda like, Hey doc, something's up. I hit my head and he's like, you have a mild concussion. You need a brain break. So like I've been on a brain break. I took about. Maybe a week and a half off, the company I work for is really awesome.

So they've been great to me, in that regard. I just been brain breaking and we were supposed to,  record last week and, sometimes I get a lull of a headache, so I wanted it to be safe and we postpone until tonight. So I feel good. I'm back to normal. Everything's fine, I appreciate everybody catching up, and Tamu thank you, obviously [00:03:00] for letting me recover

from, I can see a bit still got tunes up in our heart. Okay. 

Tamu: They didn't forget the tempo. 

Aaron: No, they didn't. I wrote three songs yesterday, actually, honestly, like they just came out.

Tamu:  Maybe the 

crack in the head was what you needed for inspiration. 

Aaron: I hit my head. Ooh. That's like an Adele kind of song right there.

Copywritten don't copy me. Don't put that in there. That was shit.

 So back to normal, obviously, what have you been up to during this blessed time of freedom from Aaron? 

Tamu: I didn't really have freedom from Aaron. We spoke regularly, so it's not like I got away from you. 

Aaron: It's true. 

Tamu: I don't catch a break

Aaron: Tell us how you really feel ma'am?

Tamu: I didn't get a brain break.

Aaron: I actually [00:04:00] call them brain breaks. Now at work I'm like brain break 

Tamu: Do you have them on a calendar. 

Aaron: No, I don't. I don't, but I send out articles and I'm like, bring break. I like to read now. It's interesting. Nope. Nope.

 Can I just ask one question about reading though? Just one question. Have you stopped buying books? 

Tamu: No. 

Aaron: So like you just perhaps are watching CBS this morning and somebody on with XYZ book or you're listening to the NPR. And like, you're like, Oh, I might read that you buy it right. 

Tamu: This is a problem with late night things for me too. Late night purchases, I can't remember if it was reading or watching something, but I saw that there was this book that they were talking about and I was like, Oh, that sounds interesting.

So I looked it up and I was like, Oh, I need to get that book. And then it also said, if you want this book, you should get this book about, black fatigue or whatever it was. And I was like, okay, okay, fine. I'm still in the middle of trying to get [00:05:00] finished through Begin Again. Right. I'm almost done.

I had just finished the black theology and black power book, which was actually really good. I still have books here. I still have the anti-racist book to read and I still have Caste to  read, which we have agreed to read together allegedly. So I ended up buying these two books. And after I purchased them, I thought all you actually needed to do was just save them for later.

And then you could buy them anytime. They're not going anywhere. 

Aaron: It's true. And there wouldn't be like at these sky high, hot prices, fresh off the press bullshit that we buy in. 

Tamu: I ended up watching an HBO documentary series called Exterminate All The Brutes, which was excellent. And we can talk a little about it later, but there was a book in  there and I was like, Oh, but this is what I learned my lesson from. To save it for later. 

Aaron: Excellent. Look at that. Look at God. 

Tamu: So it does save for later and I will not purchase it right now. Because I still have books to finish. 

Aaron: I have a similar story so I was on [00:06:00] Instagram, which is kind of where I live these days. And everybody in their mama has something, you know, a hot boy is a squirrel for me. So a hot boy with a book is a big squirrel. Okay. So. I'm going to, I want to get this guy's name, right, because he's gorgeous, but he used to be in what the, hell's the name of that show?

I already bought a book this week, the Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. I bought it. 

Tamu: Can't you just watch this aren't they  on YouTube, 

Aaron: right? You know,  I have this idea that maybe I'm going to put a bookshelf or something on , you know how like Van Jones has all that shit in the background.

Tamu: Let's not use Van as the example,

Aaron: I know, I know. I can't talk about van without being upset. Oh, it's canceled. But what the hell was the name of that show? It was about a girl that was pregnant. Jane the Virgin. Do you remember that? Did you ever watch that? So the, the Latino boy, although he was Italian, I think he has an Italian name. I'm never going to get his name. Right. Anyway, he's super hot and he has long hair now. And he's just beautiful. Anyway, he's got this sorta [00:07:00] help book.

I dunno. It's like a positive energy book. And I was like, Oh, it won't be fun to read that obviously beautiful Latino. So, I bought the book and I was looking through my Amazon pre-order blah, blah, blah. And I look at this book and I'm like, am I really going to read this? And then I kind of dug into it and it's more like, it's Buddhist stuff.

I'm glad that the system works. I just don't need to know all the shit that's behind it. So, I canceled it. The, reason why I canceled it, because it doesn't come out until  April 17th. And I was like,  thank God I can cancel it now. Rich probably, hates me because there's books coming a lot. 

Tamu: Am I going to have to have a Caste reading book club just with me and Rich?

Aaron: No, I started reading Caste.

Tamu: you didn't tell me that

Aaron: When were, when were you supposed to start? 

Tamu: When you were ready to start reading and I was giving you a brain break

Aaron: truth be told, sis, when you were like, have you had to read Caste, which we're supposed to read together? Like, in my mind, I was just like, fuck,  bitch did you say [00:08:00] that. So we're reading Caste together. And I remember that conversation now, so I started reading it. I'm not very far,

Tamu: Yeah, I figured as much.

Aaron: Like chapter one, chapter one. So I'm moving along, just FYI.

Tamu: How often are you reading it?

Aaron: Well, I feel like I should call my kids in to tell story of the Caste book. Okay. So this fucking book has been carried all around my house.

Like it's on my nightstand. And I look at it every night and I'm like, bitch, you gonna read this book today. You're going to read something out of this book today. So I carry it with my laptop downstairs. Cause on remote days, we're downstairs the kids. So I have it and it's everywhere and I'm like, where's my book.

I take it everywhere. Bitch I'm barely done with chapter one.

Tamu: How long are the chapters?

Aaron: Pretty short. I think if I recall, I don't know. For me reading you gotta be in the mood for [00:09:00] it and there's always something going on here. I have six children, as you all know. And so there's no such thing as like sitting down and reading it, but I mean, yes, there is.

If I could not watch TV or pull my laptop out and just read, when the kids go to bed, 

Tamu: so you can read it,

Aaron: Oh, absolutely.

Tamu: But You'd rather do other things.

Aaron: Of course. We all do this. I am not wrong here. I am not wrong.

Tamu: we all make excuses for it. The things that we don't want to do. Yes. However,

Aaron: you phrased that incorrectly. Ma'am.

Tamu: when we, I'm sorry, when you have stepped in it in a big ass way so that the people listening in Russia and in France and in Oregon have heard say I have received text messages with people to say,  listen, if you read it, you can talk to me about it, girl, because they feel so bad for me.  Thanks [00:10:00] Maria. Just saying,

Aaron: You know what? You ain't shit. Yo momma ain't shit. I'm done. I didn't mean that everybody's mom was beautiful.

Tamu: Haters gonna hate is what is happening here.

Aaron: it's what the fuck ever. Okay. We have gone on this tangent about this fucking book that I am reading. I'm reading Caste America, UK, Russia, France. Who else? We got Yugoslavia. Lithuania. Listen. So what are we getting into today?

Tamu: Let's just get through great moments in white American history today.

Aaron: Oh no.

Tamu: And talk about the video. That's kind of, I think going viral about Lieutenant. Let me get his name right.

Aaron: break my heart to see that video yesterday. I didn't watch the whole video. No, I didn't want to watch it.

Tamu: Okay.

Aaron: it. Just what you said in that text. I was like, Nope. Nope. Nope.

Tamu: So it's Caron Nazario, which is a [00:11:00] black army Lieutenant was driving his newly purchased Chevy Tahoe home. When two police officers pulled him over in Windsor, Virginia, and whipped out their guns and started barking orders. And they were telling him, put your hands out of the car and then get out of the car.

And it's like, what do you want me to do? Hands out of the car? Get in the

Aaron: respectful the entire time.

Tamu:  Okay. I'm thankful to parts of things that I've learned from from watching Derek Chauvin's murder trial. In terms of body cam footage and those sorts of things.

So one sound starts recording. This guy gets there and this is supposedly a routine traffic stop. Cause he had tinted windows and they couldn't see through them. He just bought this car. So they couldn't see the temporary license plate that was taped onto the back window.

The full video where the cop comes out of his car and he's like, you're going to ride the lightning son or whatever the fuck. And I was like, what the hell does that mean now? To my poor layman black ears, [00:12:00] who've never heard such a thing.

I was like, what does that mean? Like, are you going to kill him? Are you going to shoot him? Is Thor coming? Because to me, Thor rides, the lightning,

Aaron: was thinking something sexual. See, do you see where I went with that totally different

Tamu: go to a very different place.

Aaron: It's kind of hot actually, but like horribly wrong, 

Tamu: It's not hot

Aaron: I mean, videos have been made. I'm just saying, but.

Tamu: about riding the lightning. Oh, I don't want to know boo. Like I honestly don't,

Aaron: we need to do an episode about riding the lightning darling.

Tamu: It's been a long time and let's just say it was a lightening. I was riding. Boom.

Aaron: That's true. There's not a lot of lightning. That's true.

Tamu: Good for you though.  So they're pulling into this BP gas station because the army Lieutenant was like, this is a dark street for a dark road and I'm going to pull into a well lit place. And everybody agreed [00:13:00] that was the right thing to do. I wouldn't have thought of that. That'd be panicked.

Aaron: no, I always think about that. Like what would I do?

Tamu: The car, open the door slowly, get out

now, open the door, get out the car,

keep your hands outside the window,

Aaron: I seen this part. Yeah.

Tamu: outside the window. Get out of the car. Get out of the car,

get out of the car,

get out of the car, get out of the car.

Aaron: Are you fucking kidding me?

Tamu: Now that apparently means you're going to get tased. I did not know that. Thank you, So that means you're going to get tased riding the lining means going to get [00:14:00] tased. This was a routine traffic stop.

Aaron: I wasn't watching that while you were playing it, but  I remember  I saw that video and I was just like, Oh my God, I tagged CBS. I tagged Gayle King and Tony  Anthony Mason, uh, CNN, like everybody.

When I look at that video,  I think about things like that, because like I have many times in my head I've said,  my first question is this, how do I not get shot? You know, like, what do I need to do when I get in my car? Thankfully, my car is a keyless start. My keys are in my pocket.

My wallet is always where I can reach it and pull it out. That's a real threat for me. And I have twins that are about to turn 16 on the road, a black man and a black woman. I have incredible concern for their safety, incredible concern.

Tamu: because even when you comply, you can still die. Look at Philando.

[00:15:00] Aaron: Right.

Tamu: So this army Lieutenant Caron he just kept on and this was the part where I feel bad about it. Cause like when I'm listening to it, I'm like, just get out of the car, just get out of the car, just get out of the car. And at the same time, it's like, they didn't even tell you what the fuck why they're stopping you.

 They've told you nothing, a traffic stop. I've been stopped by the cops. They just come to my car and they asked me for my license and then they tell me like, you jumped a red light or something. Right. It's not guns out. That's crazy. So I can imagine that at one point he's like, I'm literally afraid to get out of my car right now.

And then they pepper spray him. And then they tell him to get out of the car and he'd keep his hands up, but he can't wipe his face.  He has a dog in the back and the dog is choking from the mace and he can't wipe his face because if he wipes his face I'm sure he's thinking they're going to fucking kill me.

And then they're like, take your seatbelt off. Well, he can't fucking see because he has fucking pepper been pepper sprayed. This was December of 2020.

Aaron: Exactly. Six months [00:16:00] after and even in their voice, just such a power trip.  Like

Tamu: in way too hot.

Aaron: And no assessment of the situation, this man was incredibly calm. this man certainly could have been given the benefit of the doubt. If a white man wearing the same uniform, sitting in his car, I assure you it would be a very different scenario,

Tamu: 100% license and registration. Do you know that we can't see your temporary plates because you're tinted windows are tinted. Now let's just stop for a minute and talk about the fact that tinted windows and the black man. This has been the bane of existence for how many fucking decades

Aaron: laws have been created,

Tamu: at nineties.

Aaron: It just keeps happening.

Tamu: and let's just be real, I don't want to say we all, but a lot of us have just spent two weeks balls deep into George Floyd's murder trial, and, seeing the footage of when the cops stepped to him right away, the same way, coming in hot guns tapping on the glass [00:17:00] scaring that man to death.

And then immediately starting that panic. what do you do? What can you do? But

Aaron: to, to helpless moment for so many black people

Tamu: it is also a veteran. Let's not discount that. Right. But we heard what that white officer said. I'm a veteran too. And  you should know, you need to obey. And also more degrading was like, what, what's your position? Are you a specialist or are you a corporal? And he's like, I'm a Lieutenant immediately.

We jumped to the lowest rungs of the ladder in the army. You couldn't just say what's your rank. We had to go. What's your rank specialist. Corporal no bitch fucking Lieutenant. It doesn't matter, but these are the things, right? So you think I'm the lowest piece of shit in the army.

I have no say or bearing clearly a human being, not to be treated in any sort of way with respect, regardless. The fact that we apparently in this country revere the military, unless they're darker skinned folks. it's never going to stop. It's never going to [00:18:00] end. It's never going to end.

Aaron: Thank God he's still alive. Thank God he's still alive. To see that this is, this continues to happen  I don't know,

Tamu: it continued to happen after what happened to George Floyd after what happened to Breonna after Jacob Blake, after, after, after it continues to happen,

Aaron: Tale as old as time now at this point.

Tamu: it's just disgusting that. that they're not learning and I'll leave it there.

Aaron: There are points now where I just feel helpless, you know, and we're almost becoming desensitized to it because it's very common. I should say, people of color are not desensitized to it. and people are just moving on.

They're just moving on.

Tamu: this then is a good segue into the documentary series that is on HBO right now called Exterminate All the Brutes B R U T E S. It's from the same person who directed. I Am Not Your [00:19:00] Negro, Raoul Peck. 

After the success of, I Am Not Your Negro, HBO was like, here's this check, do what you want. so he decided to try to tell the story of white supremacy, it's beginnings and how it permeated itself through Europe and came to America and talking about the genocide of indigenous peoples of this country.

demonstrating through different sorts of mediums of storytelling. So using, popular movies, historic works, reverse storytelling, all kinds of different ways to demonstrate the fact that we haven't basically learned from the past. And if we don't learn from the past, we're going to continue this going forward.

I recommend everybody watch this. I've had to watch it twice or parts of it twice now, because  I'm still trying to figure out All of what I'm witnessing and what I'm experiencing. It will take multiple watches to really fully grasp and understand what he's talking about or what he's trying to [00:20:00] convey.

But the boiler plate is that legacy of white supremacy started during the crusades. it started in Europe and it demonstrates the fact that there, they have been systemically trying to erradicate the Semetic blood and African blood since then. And what that did when Europeans came to America and their first thought is to kill everything and not understand or not come to it to me in any way with empathy, they've just literally come to it or like,

Aaron: get rid of it.

Tamu: I don't like, you let's get rid of you.

 You look dangerous to me. Let's get rid of you. And that's just basically the way that they've gone about life through history.

It made me sick to my stomach at times to sit and watch it. But to me, I feel it's important to watch regardless of how you feel about it. You have to go through the process because it's important to try to understand how deeply ingrained [00:21:00] this is. And to know that not for nothing, but like a summer's worth of marches, aren't going to change god damn. It's way deeper than that.  

 I was really pissed because in the opening of this fucking documentary in episode one, they're showing a scene from the movie called On the Town, which is a musical with Gene Kelly, I loved On the Town. When I was younger cause it was just, a fun New York City musical. There's a part of it where they're in the Museum of Natural History and , I think it's, I don't know if it's some kind of primitive bebop or whatever it is, but they have Cro-Magnon people or they're dressed in Indian garb and the dress with tusks and teeth and African and they're, you know, pantomiming monkeys and all kinds of things.

And when I'm watching it, I'm like, I can't watch On the Town ever again. I'm like, shit,

Aaron: Everywhere.

Tamu: This was okay. I didn't even pay [00:22:00] attention. It didn't hit me. I'm watching it. In that moment. And I was like, Oh my God, what are you guys doing? And gals, what are you all doing? And I'm just like, fuck, that was my bill coming due again.  Because it's rude. It's disgusting. It's patronizing to these people's right.

I was like, fuck,

Aaron: I've never seen that though. I kind of want to watch it.

Tamu: You'll watch it through different eyes now. it's never really on, but next time it's on, it'll definitely be different.

He talks about different genocides that have gone on throughout the course of history. It's, also culminates partially with the Jewish genocide from world war two.

Trailing through Auschwitz right? Like it's a vast and a huge complex. And at points in time, you're just looking at this thing for, I feels like minutes and minutes and it just is never ending of like how far this goes and the question is [00:23:00] something like we understand what this is, but we are lacking. Something in order to get past it. And that's the open question is like, what are we lacking? So you could be looking at it and say, they may be lacking, humanity. I'm looking at it. I'm like, is it empathy? because to me, you cannot kill women, children, older people, people in general, because

Aaron: they're lacking a soul.

Tamu:  Like you have no empathy to understand other people in this world exist other than you. And what you think is the right thing. It's a very interesting piece. It's a real trip to go through it. Cause at some points he  reverses things, but then he also talks about.

Colonialism and the impacts of colonialism in Africa and what Europeans did to decimate Africa? there's a piece of it where they're talking about, how a Scottish inventors, Dunlop Dunlop tires decided to  put rubber tires on a bicycle for his kids.

And [00:24:00] that's how the rubber boom started. And in order to get rubber, you've got to go get the palms from the rubber trees in Africa and the Congo or whatever. And they went down with force Created all of these work plantations made the locals work for free. And if you couldn't work or you refuse to work or whatever it was, they would cut your hand off.

they literally had baskets of hands and there's pictures of white. I want to say overseers or whatever. They are standing next to black people holding hands in their hands. Or they have many pictures documented of young, old black people, Africans with one hand cutoff of one arm, and one hand staying as a punishment. that's how it began. You know what I'm saying?

Aaron: my question is this, And you may not know the answer to this, but has Dunlop owned any of that history

Tamu: I don't know. Let's be real. Has anybody do you own a Volkswagen? Don't get one Porsche. Don't get one. They're Nazis fucking, [00:25:00] who's the designer. Oh, it'll come back to me. But very famous fashion designer, Nazi don't buy a Ford. Ford was a Nazi. He was giving money to the Nazis  facts. All of the proceeds that were sold of European cars or German cars were given to the Nazis and on Hitler's birthday, he gave Hitler every year, $350,000 to the cause.

Aaron:  It's interesting that this documentary is sort of highlighting that sort of the history behind like companies, companies have racist histories. Right. And my husband's grappling with that right now not my husband himself is not grappling within it's the organization. It's not him, shit went down. Did we have any part of that? Absolutely not. But should we deny it? Absolutely not. he's been really great and changing  my perspective, and really believing that every single company that's ever had a hand ever had a hand in racism, you must first acknowledge that racism.

It is [00:26:00] not your fault. You may not have had a hand in it, but you must acknowledge it. And if all these people sort of being like, Oh my God DEI, DEI, be your best self. You cannot move forward until you deal with the past. I never knew what that meant until. Maybe two, three years ago more in particular this past year.

And it is incredibly, incredibly true. Like you guys can pump money into hiring all the black people you want to, you can pump money into, you know, trying to change the culture. But until you, as the core of the company say, Hey, you know what? This shit was started racist. We admit we fucked up. We didn't have anything to do with this, but we're going to move forward in this way.

You are silently accepting your past. And what you're saying is that money is more important than to acknowledge that you fucked up human beings for centuries. 

Tamu: Duh! [00:27:00]

Hugo Boss that's 

Hugo Boss made the is Nazi uniforms.

Aaron: my God.

We've said it many times on this podcast, right?  Everybody's having some sort of a reckoning, everybody's going through this, Oh, I shouldn't say everybody, not everybody, but you know, some of us are going through a reckoning.

Some companies are. And I say for the most part, you're all getting it wrong. We just all getting it wrong. because the intention is different, right? The intention is more protection of your brand or your money or your workforce than it is recognizing that this system has really fucked up.

You know, no one's saying that. They're just saying we want to encourage you to be your best self and bring yourself to work. No, boo, we were doing that beforehand. Now. We're really doing it, it's more than just allowing us to have a [00:28:00] seat at the table. It's deeper than that.

You need to acknowledge your past to move on, period.

Tamu: It was on the daily show. I was watching that United airlines is now really trying to pump up their diversity by having women and people of color be pilots. And they're having a program for that. great. However, they didn't have to broadcast it.

They didn't have to make a big deal out of it they could have just been doing it. When I see pilots, I've seen black pilots on my flights and I'm like, great. And Trevor Noah and his writers made a really good point of demonstrating the fact that you didn't need to make it a Clarion call.

Right? All you had to do is just have this happen behind the scenes. You didn't have to make it such a big deal. You're making it a big deal because you want people to know, this is what you're doing for PR purposes

Aaron: Protecting your money.

Tamu: Who gives a shit way that it's being spun in Fox news realms is that you're just having any [00:29:00] old person come in and fly a plane. Not that you still have to go through the same parameters, the same testing and everything. They're just trying to hire more people that are diverse. And to me there's a bigger, broader reach of diversity than just like black, white, Asian, Latino women. Hello.

Aaron: I always have a problem with that, even when celebrities, make it now. I always think of this example, which is like another rich white girl giving money to another rich white girl. But Taylor Swift, when she gave, I don't know, a million dollars to Kesha's legal fund or something like that, I'm like, why can't you just fucking give them money?

This is all PR bullshit, it's a double-edged sword because  like go back to George Floyd a year ago.

Like I wanted to see all screens blacked out in Instagram. Right? Like if you weren't that I wasn't rocking with, you

Tamu: I didn't want to see it

Aaron: it's just superficial.

Tamu: knew it was bullshit.

Aaron: It's bullshit. Right. It's complete bullshit. I don't know what the easy answer is. We're too hung up on, make it look good than to speak the [00:30:00] truth.

Tamu: there really isn't an easy answer. 

Aaron: I saw a commercial for the, I don't know if it's an ACM American country music ACM, or I don't know what the fuck it is. And Mickey Guyton is hosting the show and I'm just like half the people like who now I know who Mickey Guyton is, but that's so reactive.

It's so obvious and so blatant,

Tamu: She's not nominated for any awards.

Aaron: not at all,

Tamu: That's all I'm saying.

Aaron: and that was a sympathy nomination for the Grammys, wonderful song. But we knew her black ass, wasn't going to win that Grammy.

Tamu: and you knew her black ass. Wasn't getting nominated for ACMs.

Aaron:  Now they're forcing it, right?  To me, this is forced, these people don't want this shit. They don't want any of this.

Tamu: They could say no,

Aaron: Right. That's

Tamu: someone behind them. is like do this. This is great. Great visibility for you. You're helping your people. I'm using quotes. It's not the better visibility for you. boo would have been to be like, fuck that.

[00:31:00] Aaron: Right.

Tamu: I'm not going to be your token. Go to hell.

Aaron: This just now come up to be this puppet or whatever. They're wanting her to be at this point. 

Tamu: Let's delve into the actual reason why we're here today. Okay.

Aaron: let's talk about it

Tamu: it's like our full circle moment is coming back around again

Aaron: bite us

Tamu: to us. Correct. 

For those of you who are just maybe listening to this episode, And not listening to any previous ones, please go listen to previous episodes. We, have fun and, you know, we're cool and stuff, whatever. We started this podcast as a, therapeutic outlet to us coming to terms with George Floyd's murder, coming to terms with what that meant coming to terms with being black gen X-ers and what all of that meant in terms of the things that we've had to suppress we are now in the middle of Derek Chauvin's murder trial. Of George Floyd's murder. And, we are literally having a  full circle moment, not even a year [00:32:00] later, 

Aaron: not even a year. I didn't think about that till today, but it's been hard to watch this again and thank God we've said this, you know, thank God for work. For myself, I didn't realize the trial was starting until maybe Sunday night.

And I was like, Oh, okay. I'm sure you guys hear it everywhere there in Minnesota, I made the decision early on that I really don't want to watch any of this, but I have to watch it. And if I didn't watch it. I would just kick myself for not watching it. It's just been really incredibly hard. Number one, I had never seen the entire full video 

 I don't know what the fuck I was expecting honestly, but I was just watching and I was like, Oh, this is the entire video. Like it was the whole ass video.  It was really just, just very emotional, like, a year ago, almost a year ago, incredibly emotional, 

this time around I have a level of anxiety that is hard to articulate. I told my boss, I was just like, listen, I'm [00:33:00] probably not going to be a joyous person for the next three weeks. Because I'm watching this and, couple that with all these fucking shootings,  like what a heavy fucking, Oh my God.

So I will just share this. I think the most upsetting part of this entire trial is that idiot. Fuck attorney,

Tamu: qualify, which attorney you're talking about.

Aaron: you know, which one, the only one defending that murderer.

Tamu: Eric Nelson the defense attorney.

Aaron: He looks familiar. I'm going to ask rich. I never thought about that. Anyway, it's incredibly obvious.  People can watch that video and they can see that man's face, he intended to do what he did.

He had hate in his heart. He didn't give a shit about George Floyd and the fact that this man, because of whatever reason has motivated him to defend this murderer, this guy is a murderer. He knows what he did. He should just stop wasting taxpayers' money. And just [00:34:00] say, I will take a plea deal. I will admit that I'm guilty, whatever the fuck, but it is incredibly infuriating to watch this man trying to undermine the fact that this man was never trained to kill people.

That way was never trained to treat people that way. I completely understand people's angst and anxiety around this. There was a video a couple of weeks ago that I posted about this woman. if you don't understand why people are going to burn the motherfucker down, if shit pops off,  I don't want to rock with you.

If you can't at a basic level, understand that this is a fucking human being that was killed, that was killed. That was begging for his fucking life, like at a basic level. If you can't understand that, give a fuck. If he was on drugs, give a fuck. If he was drunk, give a fuck. If he had a $20 bill that was counterfeit, all irrelevant, no one should have lost their life for that period.

And if these [00:35:00] people in this jury do not see that, I have no apologies for what happens next. I gotta be honest.

Tamu: Easy for you to say you don't live here.

Aaron: And not even just here around the world, everywhere,

Tamu: I'm 100% of the mindset that, we already know the outcome. So this is all.

Aaron: the pony show,

Tamu: Yeah. Unfortunately, if they do something different, I'll be like, wow, but it's still won't be enough. So it doesn't matter. I have. Been watching daily as much as I can between sleeping and waking and working and then sleeping again.

I've caught some, some pertinent parts. I actually went back and watched his girlfriend give her testimony, which was very sweet and very emotional. And I really pray for her sobriety and for her strength in this time, considering what she had to divulge in her testimony [00:36:00] about their substance abuse and their opioid addictions, et cetera, irrelevant to the facts of what happened. the part that killed me the most was I think it was last week, Wednesday when I think it's Christopher Martin, the young man 

The store clerk. I literally felt sick to my stomach for that young man. I felt sick listening to him and maybe I'm more empathetic than others, I could feel how he would feel in that situation of being like, fuck, if I had just turned away his 20, because he turned away George Floyd's friends 20, this would have never happened if I had never taken it, it would never have happened. the fact that the manager of the store left huge responsibility in the hands of children to go and fight fights for you. Right to go and handle your battles because you're too much of a punk to go do it yourself.  If you claim that you knew George Floyd and you knew that he really probably wouldn't have done anything [00:37:00] nefarious, what's the big fucking deal. Then next time he came in, say, yo, the fuck are you doing?

Like, don't, don't get caught like this. Right. That's what you do. but that wasn't the case. And so I can understand that poor, young man's guilt and that he carries that with him every day. And imagine the aftermath of everything like the fires diluting, the burnings, everything like that.

Poor kid was like, if it wasn't for me, this wouldn't have happened. I can't even imagine. What that's like for what that must be like or how you go about forgiving yourself. And I pray that these young people, because I was surprised, like no one thought about the children that were there, no one thought to protect them.

No one thought to cover that nine-year-olds girl's eyes from what she was seeing. You know, there's even smaller children at the bus stop on the other side. Right? Like they might not have really understood, but  no one [00:38:00] thought to protect them from what was happening. And that is devastating to me because How do you come back from this? I pray that there are people who are donating their services to help these young people Just come to peace, come to terms to understand what they've seen and experienced, and then provide them with some kind of tools to move forward because of this can be something that is life alteringly devastating to you.

This can be harmful if not treated. And I pray that they get help, that they need. When you saw some of the kids testify,  some of them didn't want to be there even Christopher Martin, he's like, you know, I deleted the video.

I didn't want to be a part of it. Like I moved out of the neighborhood. all of these things have big ripples of ramifications in people's lives. Right. and these are people who most likely don't have the means to figure out how to care for themselves. And I just pray that people with means that people with the skillset that can do it, [00:39:00] do that, to help them,

Aaron: I agree, 100%. I was saying earlier about just like the lack of humanity and the fact that that motherfucker could just sit there with his knee on that man's neck, I'm sure he saw that little girl that wasn't enough for him to say, Hey, I need to chill.

That wasn't enough. You know what I'm saying?

Tamu: I understand what you're saying, but even if he didn't get off of George Floyd's neck and Lord knows he should have the officer who was guarding, those people should have

Aaron: all of

Tamu: take that little girl and let her go. Someplace else

Aaron: I couldn't even imagine Being, any of those witnesses, they are fucked up for life. And to take that even further to people of color, anyone who has a heart who is a human, that gives a shit and actually saw a man murdered on live television around the world.

You're never going to be the same. I'm never going to be the same. I'm never going to be the same after seeing that, not once, but twice but many times, right? [00:40:00] Like we're never going to be the same. Especially for black men and black women, black children, this is traumatizing.

As we've spoken before, in the black community, Mental health is not something that we talk about. And I truly do pray that this bubbles it up to the surface and makes it important because I myself have had my own struggles with this situation. I've had many struggles. This was completely unexpected.

Everything about this was completely unexpected. And I just feel like we have a world of people who saw a man's life taken away, taken away, and we can never be the same. We'll never be the same and we will never fucking forget it. It's in my opinion, it's like watching those fucking planes fly into that tower.

Tamu: Or,  watching Eric Garner die or Philando, you know what I mean? There are big moments, but,  not to say that they didn't amount to [00:41:00] anything. I think that they propelled us to the apex of where we ended up in this weird. Confluence of things

 while it is. Excruciatingly difficult to watch. I appreciate being able to put the pieces together, seeing how everything evolved has been educational for me to see how those things all worked. The trippy part was to see him in the cup foods alive,

Aaron: joyous.

Tamu: was devastating to see you look at the clock and you see it's like 7:30 and you think like in an hour you'll be dead.  Holy shit. That was Really surreal,  because we've never seen that, that component of it before.

We've only seen him on the ground and, you know, dying and dead. We've never seen him alive. And to see him alive was like, I know him, right? I know people like him in my own personal [00:42:00] world. Right? I know people like that. They're harmless. yes. They may be doing things within their family or to their family, whatever destroying themselves.

And that's hard to see. However, it doesn't make them less jovial and good people and cut ups and likable individuals. It didn't mean that he deserved to die. He didn't deserve to be murdered that day. People didn't deserve to see that he didn't deserve to go through that trauma and stress from the initial gun taps on the door. it was interesting to me to see, from the beginning to the witnesses, like it all has kind of snowballed into a really great picture of seeing how things evolved even. When the young man, Christopher Martin said,  when they got him in the ambulance, he knew that George Floyd was dead because they weren't going to the direct route to the hospital.

And I was like, wow, what does that mean? And then when you hear the,  paramedics talk about [00:43:00] it and they just tried to get him out of that situation for safety reasons. And they worked on him until fire came and then they got him to the hospital. So that kid was right. 

Then this week with the discussion of. Autopsies and everything else. It's hard because in the past present future, we're just specimens. Right. And to hear them talk about how they had to slice skin back to see if there are bruisings and you don't think about autopsies like that, you think about them taking your heart and your lungs, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You don't think about them cutting the delicate. I mean, if you look at your back, your back skin is not thick so they're cutting that off of you to examine, to see if tissue damage like that is intense information, intense  things to think about of the fact that even in the end of life, we are still an experiment.

 You know, it's really tough to think about it in those terms, but like, even then, [00:44:00] because people can't seem to understand how he had no bruising, how he had no, indentations how rib wasn't broken, how his neck wasn't damaged as a result of him losing oxygen to his whole entire fucking body.

again, like putting that brute strength of, and that myths of well, blacks just don't feel pain 

One other thing I will say, that tripped me out.  Was seeing the body camera footage from. Everybody else. 

Aaron: Can I just say, I want to punch. I want to punch him.

Tamu: I just thinking about the fact that we just cannot fucking win because this is a multicultural murder if you look at it, people are always at the bottom and everybody has to try their best to step on that bottom wrung and stomp it into the ground to get up ahead, right.

That ladder to whiteness. And even these Asian American people of color allowed this to happen to a fellow person of color because he was still [00:45:00] beneath them. It's just like, we just can't fucking win and we never stand a fucking chance because everybody has to just step on us in order to get ahead.

No matter what your century, what your decade, it's still the fucking same.

Aaron: I mean, the picture of those officers there with the white man on his neck and they've done nothing, like they had done nothing. What does that say?  How important is, was that, that black life? It wasn't.

Tamu: It wasn't because if you protect that black man, then what's wrong with you, then you're a sympathizer to the Negroes or whatever it is. And then, you are down a peg in your race to the top or race to whiteness.

Aaron: To me watching that video makes it feel, more tangible to me. To see it from jump, it gave me really sad perspective, but like just made it really tangible. And obviously, as you know, I used to live down the street from there.

As I'm watching this video, I see Cup Foods in the background, on the [00:46:00] Speedway that's there and like everything about that space and I can't help, but think all the time I used to fucking walk there. My girls used to walk there. I think about that all the time. It makes me sad.

And the other thing that makes me incredibly sad about all of this, you know, those witnesses that were there, the fighter, the EMT that was off duty and all those people that were just standing there incredibly upset that they could not help them. They're so scared of the police that they couldn't help a man live.

we're going to be fucked up, but those people are going to be fucked. up for the rent that nine-year-old girl it's, it's a wrap. I pray for

Tamu: Honestly, like this is the microcosm of what America is right in this particular nine minutes and 29 seconds. Right? You got a white woman coming in saying, I'm credentialed. I can help. Let me know [00:47:00] what I can do. Granted, I don't have my credentials, but I am this. And they're like, get away woman, go be a woman.

You have a black man, you have two black men the older man was ,

Aaron: Talking them down.

Tamu: give in, do whatever you need to do. And  the younger guy was like, y'all are being punks. Fuck. Y'all doing get off of him, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. So you have these different pieces of all of the isms that we keep talking about.

Sexism, racism. It's right there. Ageism, because you have an older man, you have kids. It's all happening in this nine minutes and 29  seconds. And let's be real. George Floyd was our age. 

Aaron: Yup. Yup. 

Tamu: I wonder if you threw in a bystander white man, could that have made the situation different? If the white man was the, fire fighter instead of the woman would that have made a difference.

Aaron: You never

Tamu: There's so many variables, we'll never know what I can [00:48:00] hope and pray for, because let's be real. We know what the outcome is going to be, but even in looking at what happened with,  Caron in  Virginia, that we're seeing now that happened in December. You're seeing gaps in police training, right?

in real time, the gaps that they need to fill, or they need to understand, like, when we say defund the police, this is what we mean,  me and my, novice, non PhD self George, immediately started to go into a panic attack. once the guns started tapping on his window, right? So

Aaron: I'm not that person. He kept saying.

Tamu: that's when you need a mental health professional to come in, right?

You need someone to come in and dissolve that situation. And also you don't need to come in guns, a blazing, as we have heard in other people's testimony, this is a misdemeanor a forged $20 bill is a ticket. Guns not necessary the same thing that happened in Virginia guns without explanation. That's [00:49:00] the part that's hard to reconcile is like, clearly that's not changing. It's not going to change.

Aaron: for very long.

Tamu: It never will change.

Aaron: It'll take lifetimes to even see a break of change in my personal opinion.

Tamu: It's not happening anytime soon. They're not going to give up and by they, I do mean white people are not going to give up without a fight and the last gasps of fighting. And that is probably what they're doing now. You know what I mean? When you corner, an animal, they will fight to the death.

And I think that's what's happening broadly. however, they still have power, back to exterminate all the brutes they give a percentage of the amount of white people that have guns in America. And it's like some crazy shit, like 63%.

So high number today have guns.

Aaron: whole other issue.

How did it feel in those videos to see Chauvin and hear his voice? Yes.

I'm more specifically talking about when the older black guy sort of had that interaction with him,

Tamu: at the [00:50:00] end, after the

Aaron: right? Yeah. After the fact, for me, I was just like, you're a pussy, that's the only way to put it because he was just like, he was bigger than me.

He was probably on drugs and to hear his voice. I've heard that voice. My entire stint in Minnesota same kind of  tiny man that, you know, feels emasculated by someone that's black period. and then just to watch him, he sounds weak, but he knew what he did was wrong.

I just feel like what the fuck is he doing? He

Tamu: you think he knew it was

Aaron: absolutely. I do. I fully believe that. just look at those pictures of him where he's staring at people. He knew what he was doing.

Tamu: okay. He knew what he was doing.

Aaron: he knew why

Tamu: knew what he was doing was wrong or two different things.

Aaron: he knew what he was doing was wrong too, but he didn't care.

Tamu: I don't. Yeah.

Aaron: I mean,

Tamu: I'll give you that.

Aaron: interpreted.

Tamu: I don't think he cared about what he was doing.

Aaron: Right. Which further fuels that he knew what he was doing. He didn't care

Tamu: He didn't [00:51:00] care.

Aaron: even fucking care.

Tamu: The other piece of it is apparently they used to work together at Conga Latin Bistro 

Aaron: I was waiting for the tea on that. Did they talk about that at all? They haven't yet, right?

Tamu: I've always said that white people don't recognize you outside of different settings. So when I'm at work and I'm in the hallways back when we could do that, you would see people in wave or whatever, be like, Oh, Hey, I recognize you, blah, blah, blah, blah. If I saw the people at target, they wouldn't know me, I'll wave to them and they'd be like, who the fuck are you?

And that's what I mean, he probably would have recognized George in that Conga Latin Bistro setting or whatever it was that he was bouncing at. But as a regular black in the street, you just a black on the street.

Anything you wanna talk about the trial? 

Aaron: , like this time around, I don't know about you, it's just, it's a different kind of pain. I actually thought the medical examiners and all of those experts were really great.

 They were like, you ain't moving my ass bitch. 

Tamu: Irish guy was great. The lady was great. I [00:52:00] started to have breathing issues just by watching the demonstration videos from. Mr. Tobin about,  how your breathing can reduce  

Aaron:  There's so many things wrong with this. It just makes me so sad. This is our world. 

Tamu: It's a very terrible and tragic situation it's literally like. The black experience in a 10 minute snippet of time, this is a black experience, literally every day, 

This is a woman's experience. This is a young black person's experience. This is a. Young, person of color experience. This is an older, black person's experience. It was like a lot of microcosms balling up at this one tiny period of time. 

Aaron: I've just been thinking about like how you described that and it just really is a picture of what is insignificant.

What is insignificant to to white people? I mean, not even white people, but like to society because it extends beyond go ahead. 

Tamu: No, it's not, this is a white man's [00:53:00] problem.

Aaron: Exactly. 

Tamu: And a man's problem. 

This is a patriarchy issue. This is a systemic racism issue. This is a misogynistic issue.

This is an ageist issue across one spectrum on the other spectrum. There's so many things happening in 10 minutes of time. 

Aaron: Oh, it killed me the most is that the older gentleman. When he testified and just  Oh my God, I couldn't, his girlfriend almost killed me too.

That man, and just, his heartache because just, like you say, you know, people like George Floyd, I know people like that, man in the neighborhood,

Tamu: Continue to try to care for yourself in these moments. If you feel that you can't tolerate it, then take those moments of breaks and where you don't need to deal with it or to be present in that experience. I have some friends who read about it rather than watch it.

 If that's how they get through it, [00:54:00] fine, at least they're there doing it, right. Sometimes I feel like you do need to physically see it and it needs to disrupt your system in order for you to really get it, to understand, to really be anchored in or moved, to make change. 

Aaron: I'm putting this out in the universe that someone will take the George Floyd video. And you know how, like when you go to driver's ed and they show you like this horrible videos of like, you know, accidents and whatever, this is something that should be taught racism should be a required course in all schools.

Tamu: In schools, but also within the police force, 

Aaron: absolutely. 

Tamu: This trial is a textbook trial. Everything that has happened, should we textbook for what you need to do and for policing going forward? Personally, I do think that he will change. Policing in that way. I pray that he does.

Aaron: I agree with that. 

Tamu: But it's still happening, you know, You can't erase centuries of this [00:55:00] belief that you are better than everybody else. it's not something that is, A symptom of the creation of America.

This goes deeper than that. 

Aaron: Absolutely. 

Tamu: And when we talk about  historical trauma, think about the historical. I'm going to say legacy or heredity that they're bringing with them for their supremacy. So that purity 

Aaron: is true. Or privileged 

What is your verdict day plan?

Tamu: I'm not leaving my house as usual. So I probably have to make sure I stockpile certain snacks and things that I like to have around so that I don't have to go outside, 

I honestly feel like if it doesn't go the right way, this starts the race Wars. 

Aaron: I hate saying it, it doesn't look good. There's been history here. And police are, well-protected always, , so there's that piece,  the other part is I don't understand this.

 Surely there's some sort of reason why they do all this, but  before like an announcement comes out or a trial or whatever, they paid them that big old sum of money.  So the jury could be like,  then is set. [00:56:00] They good. He died, but they good. 

 I have also felt in my personal opinion, that when they pay out a settlement, the trials not going to go the way you want it to, whether that's them being charged or whatever I don't know if that influences things. I don't know, the jury surely knows that. I mean, they're not living under rocks. 

Tamu: Time will tell how this goes in the interim. Take care of yourselves. Take the breaks that you need to take. Do the things that you need to do to make sure that you're safe and secured in this moment, because it's gonna get real, so, 

Aaron: It's really important that. We're also being honest with ourselves to say, you know what? I'm not okay. I'm not okay. You know, and I need to take a day or I need to talk to someone. 

Tamu: If we've learned nothing from the year, right. From May [00:57:00] 26th on that's, what we should have learned is to really be vocal about the fact that we need to take the time we need to take, because we are impacted in specific ways by this.

Aaron: Absolutely.  I have never. had the emotions and the, just the feelings and the fear and the sadness and the tears, the anxiety, all of it. I've never had any of it. And I've experienced all of it in one, not even a year. We are not even a year. So really real.

I know that people, don't necessarily want to talk about it, but like, Talk about it. Just be honest. If you have people that love you that know you, that know who you are, that know your heart, they're not going to judge you. They're not, they're going to be there for you and they're gonna hold your hair when you cry 

Tamu: and you can take a day off of work if you need to.

We need to give an RIP to [00:58:00] DMX. 

Aaron: RIP DMX. 

Tamu: Do you know who DMX is

Aaron: up in here? Rough riders. Was I a crazy fan? Absolutely not, but I like DMX. He was angry. 

Tamu:  Well, he was angry, but also very hard life, very hard life, and so sad that it had to end this way. 50. All 

Aaron: right.

Easy Earl. 

This is almost an example of like how insignificant black lives are. Like you are the work horse for the record label. You are the workhorse and you are put out to pasture and I don't care. You can snort. 50 pounds of Coke. You can become an alcoholic, but goddammit, you're going to sell those records and that's no one ever stopped to say, Hey, let me take care of you.

I believe that like, that's, that's how these stories always end because  there's never anybody that truly gives a [00:59:00] shit about them. It's all about the money. It's all about the high that everybody's on. And when that high is over, it's over and they die, which is sad. Incredibly sad. 

Tamu: All right. Well, we're going to take a break 

  We are back with our throwback  

today's throwback is Sound of Da Police by KRS ONE

Aaron: Tell me why you pick this song. 

Tamu: Well, we actually picked, well, I picked the song when we were going to record.

One of the components of me being able to get out of my haze, doldrums, whatever you want to call it during that time of the summer was I created a playlist of  protest songs.

 If you don't have KRS ONE on your protest song playlist, and you are severely lacking in protest songs, especially if you are a person from [01:00:00] the gen X period or even, 

Aaron: or New York. 

Tamu: New York Boogie Down Productions,, KRS ONE spit and fire shooting facts to you from like early on.

This song came out in 1993.

 Sound of Da Police. It was one of those songs, for me anyway, growing up in New York, 1993  you hear that all the time. You hear the sirens, you hear that and you have to stop and you're like, fuck, the cops are coming or whatever it is.

Especially for young black men, like this is something that's synonymous with  cops.

Aaron: Stop sign. So I have to ask, is that an experience for you personally? 

Tamu: No, not for me personally. I didn't have any experiences with police at that point in time of my life. It wasn't till I got here that I got stopped by the police for things.

but it didn't, it hasn't stopped. For young black people back in the nineties, nor has it stopped to this day. So I feel like the song resonates it's a through line to  today. It's still very [01:01:00] relevant. It provides you with  history about. How officers became officers and for our,  mills and our gen Z peers.

If you watch Amber Ruffin show, have you seen the clip of her kind of giving the example of Policing through history. You learned that the slave overseers, became police officers because they were still going after slaves and trying to capture slaves, bring them back  so he also says that, you know, Overseer overseer, overseer, overseer officer, officer overseer.

Right. He's trying to let people understand that there's that fluidity, that duality between these two things that have meshed together to become one where. The people who are trying to like capture slaves back in the day are still the people who are trying to capture slaves, AKA black people today,

Aaron: The overseer line. caught me too, but. this guy says  my grandfather had to deal with the cops and then my great, great, great, [01:02:00] great. When's it gonna stop? real good nuggets there.

Tamu: It shows that legacy of slavery. So it's telling you that he has to deal with the cops. His father had to deal with the cops is grandfather had to deal with the cops his great-grandfather had to look up his great, great grandfather. And then consistently, because again, the same thing of overseer, overseer, overseer, overseer.

Overseer officer, officer overseer, right? It's that whole thing combining into one where the police are born of these overseers from slave days. So they have already, that legacy is ingrained in them too. Hate blacks, not believe blacks, not believe blacks can't breathe, not believe blacks can just, you know, own an Escalade and drive the dealership to their homes.

 This is the systemic piece of it. And this was 1993.

Aaron: This is gonna sound really [01:03:00] fucked up to say, but  everybody finds themselves.

And personally, rap was the furthest from me. It was the furthest thing I was ever interested in because it was ghetto. it was what we saw on TV. Right. That,  these hip hop people, drug, dealers shooting up, whatever. Like we took it all in a suburban, I always say white Aaron. I certainly, wasn't interested in this rap public enemy. I was interested in hip pop, and  just this year alone, in my personal opinion, like I have discovered. Many nuggets of just like people were dropping messages and I was not even listening, like people were dropping messages.

 It's always great to hear these songs it's  interesting to hear these lyrics and how timeless they are. It's like, Oh shit, did it just come out yesterday? Like  put a different beat on it?

I personally have never, dealt with the cops in that way, but I would imagine in New York it's probably. as true as he raps. 

[01:04:00] Tamu: We just saw in Virginia, it's as true as he raps.

 It's not a regional thing. This is throughout the system and throughout this country. And again,  I will reiterate, this was in 1993. a lot of the time if you're watching a documentary about something, like if you watch, I am not your Negro, that was in the sixties, everything is relevant today.

Nothing has actually changed. 

That's the problem is that the wheel hasn't broken. 

Aaron: Right. 

Tamu: it's the same way that it is. There might be cracks slightly. And you might be able to like, if you hit it in a specific way, kind of break it, but are we all strong enough as a collective to do that?

It's the problem question 

Aaron: it's hard to know. It's just hard to know. You can, , like I think about these things and just hearing you talk, I get so overwhelmed with it. 

Tamu: It is definitely an overwhelming situation, especially for us. We know. We're already at the [01:05:00] outcome point, right?

we are looking down, waiting for people to get there. And it's like, are you ever going to fucking get here? Or what is the fucking problem? Because. How can I stand here for so long? Right, right. It's windy. It's cold. There's weather happening up here. You all need to get your black ass is up here.

AKA not black asses, but y'all need to get up here with the rest of us. It's so nice. Like we could, once we get up here, like on the opposite side, it's all downhill. It's lovely. If we could just get down the Hill, 

Aaron: As much as I don't appreciate the fact that people are be reactionary, responding to racism.

I do appreciate that. There is, there's more of a. Highlight of it,  in different ways I watch CBS this morning all the time and there's always a story about,  some racial issue or  I'm sure we'll see, the Virginia incident on the news, [01:06:00] but I think that's really important.

 And it may be insignificant and God, I hope people aren't looking away, which they probably are just as I say that, but. It wasn't on TV a year ago. Like it is today, right? There weren't topics I think about ABC that did that whole, soul of America thing, which I don't know what the fuck that was about, but okay.

And it was in March. But it's nice to see these things,  even if it's, I don't want to say it is forced. It is reactive, but to hear about kidnapped black kids on the news, or to hear a story of, I dunno, somebody struggled racism or the fact, even as much as I really do hate this, because I feel like people pity.

People of color more, the fact that they highlight people of color are,  more likely to get COVID or the disparities within the community and like the health systems and things will anything happen? I don't know. I don't know. Probably not. Yeah. You know what. I'm going to be an optimist and say, [01:07:00] some things will change.

Some things will, do you know what Tamu, that's the truth. Some things will change, but not everything right. And so all this shit is here on the TV. And I don't know, like some things will change. But it will always stay the 

Tamu: same

Nothing has changed.


Aaron: change that. I mean, we're looking at change right 

Tamu: change,

 but it'll just make white people angry and then like attack us when it didn't have to be that way. The change has to always be violence. It doesn't have to be violence. They could choose non-violence. They could choose love. They could choose empathy, they refuse, and then you always have to choose violence.

Aaron: I would even argue to say that we don't choose violence. We choose peace. Like we don't go into that.

Tamu: We choose peace. 

But at the end of the day, 

Aaron: right. 

Tamu: We can't, we will not choose peace over violence today. We will choose violence.

Fuck that. .

Aaron: I hear that. 

Tamu: Because we are not the [01:08:00] same blacks as we were before we wi ll fight. You might not like it, but we will fight. 

Aaron:  In so many ways of giving and a license to express ourselves to, to speak our peace to be unafraid, even though we are afraid.

I mean, honestly, right. You're not going to go look, roll up in your work and be like, bitch, you are racist. I hate, you 

Tamu: No 

Again though, maybe we should be, 

Aaron: I know, right?

Tamu: It's not physical violence, but it's a violence of some kind. It's a disruption, right. Disrupting the system. To disrupt the system, right? Like we can choose it to the system any way we decide that we want to do it, whether that be violence, physical violence, some kind of mental disruption. 

There are multiple ways of doing it. we are not going to be those we shall overcome. Oh 

yeah. Cool. 

Aaron: We ain't going to sit down and be 

Tamu: early sixties ever again. 


Aaron: I agree. I agree.

Tamu: That's the part that scares [01:09:00] everybody is, that we. Are not going to be passive anymore.

Aaron: I would agree with that. I do feel empowered to speak up and to say something, to disrupt, everyone being okay with whatever. Right?  I feel it. Almost my duty at this point. Like, you know what, no, fuck it.  I think to everybody's listening to whether they want to, or not forced or otherwise they're listening.

I think people are listening. I do. 

Tamu: I disagree with you on that part, but that's okay. Certain people are listening. Other people are pretending to listen or they're like faking the funk to  tick a box off. 

Aaron: Of course, of course. But like, I do think we have a captive audience to some degree the movement seems larger now, would you not agree with it?

Tamu: I disagree with that a hundred percent. 

Aaron: Okay. 

Tamu: People have fallen and splintered off of it, right? Like we were talking about this great wave of multicultural people and white people and everybody joining in. And that was what from may to July. And then they got bored and they [01:10:00] decided to stop doing it.

There's literal stats. 

I think that we need to stop waiting for white people to get it together and join on our bandwagons. Right? Like we need to start to figure out how to do this shit for ourselves. They're just not going to, that's fine. That's their choice. That's what they want to do.

There are some who will choose to  ride with it a hundred percent. And there is some who will ride with it 20%, 50%, whatever it is. I want to ride with the hundred percenters. I don't want to ride with 25 and 50% to 75%. I need to a hundred percent in on this with me. If you're not, I don't have time for it.

There are rebels and there are liberals that's 

Aaron: I agree. I definitely agree. Like people certainly are. They go where they're comfortable. 

Tamu: Most people they're quote unquote, faux liberals, right? They liked to take, like to say, they are doing these things on March, do an Instagram photo on it or whatever, but they're not going to go roll in [01:11:00] deep into it and make sacrifices.

They need to make, those are fake ones. We don't want fake ones in our business. And that's what we've been seeing. That's what we saw in may through the summer. They're not still here. 

Aaron: It's true. 

You're right. 

Tamu: Sorry. 

Aaron: I'm out of the clouds now. Onward with racism. 

Tamu: Sorry. 

It's not about racism. It's just like, you know what?

They want their privilege cake and eat it 

too. That's it?  That's 

fine, but I don't want to ride with those people. They're not true to who they are. Now that I understand that I'm like, I get it like, okay, Kelly, I can't force you to have a meeting with between me and and you to catch up on things, even though you're the one that knows that she basically is a racist and whatever the fuck else, she is about certain things, right.

You know, that you want nothing to do with her because it doesn't align with who you are in your spirit. I can say. Sure. , but we can maybe meet in the middle. Because that's what I've been conditioned to fucking think my whole goddamn life it's in my fucking blood. It's in my [01:12:00] DNA. 

That's the difference?

Aaron: That's true. 

Tamu: We have to really realize it, see it for what it is the end of the day when people are at the door who is going to step there and fight for you 

 Probably not these bitches who write 

bad time to find it 

Aaron: Sadly, right and the sad part, I think too, is that you already know who those people are.


Tamu: This is my opinion. We're conditioned to give the benefit of the doubt because throughout history have always had to give a benefit of the doubt and to be able to figure out how to work with people, at least to survive. Right. 

Sorry, I'm sorry.

Aaron: Rome. Wasn't built in a day. 

Tamu: Rome also died. 

Aaron: It's true. You know, can you find one happy path please? Oh my God. It's more like doom and gloom. I'm like we're dying. The world is over. 

Tamu: Any of those things, all I'm saying is that all of these cliched, fucking commonalities and terminologies that have been smacked into our brains, believe our things are not [01:13:00] true.

And we need to realize they are not true and see shit for what it is. And if we can utilize those options for things that we need to get a step ahead or to maneuver around fine. But we need to recognize that that shit's that shit not like, Oh, everybody's clean, but no, they're not.

They're all full of shit. 

Aaron: It's true. Watch your ass. That's true. That is fact 

Tamu: That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to be negative about it. I'm just trying to say don't put all of your hands to use in terminology from the rubber plantations of the colonial Africa into one basket. They'll cut your fucking hands off to get some goddamn rubbers.

They can fucking make a tire. That's all 

Aaron: I'm going to have to look at my tires for now on. I don't think I have them. That's so hard to tell anyway, now 

Tamu: it doesn't matter anymore. Anyway,

however, it's something to think about. 

Aaron: Great. 

And it also something to think about where you're putting your money too, right? 

[01:14:00] Tamu: Absolutely. 

I was going to say for Ford, there was a 60 minutes segment on the, I think he's a CEO or president of the Ford foundation a black gay man from Texas. he is devoting like millions and millions of dollars or half a billion dollars or half a million dollars to diversity projects.

He's changed the focus of the Ford foundation to provide monies to diverse institutions and causes, and, he's changed the complete and total mindset and operation of this particular organization. 

Aaron: Awesome. 

Tamu: And that's great. And that's Ford who I just told you was a Nazi.

Aaron: It goes back to the conversation, with Rich,  a lot of companies are doing this I will say it, over and over again, acknowledge your past and create a step forward, create a real way forward. Talk the talk and walk the walk.

Don't just do it for your PR people like literally do it,  and I think that's important and I [01:15:00] hope that people hold some of these companies to the fire and say, you must acknowledge your past. You need to change. I mean, I think I'm really, this is bullshit, right? Because money it's money.

Right. And they're only going to go so far. They're only gonna go so far. You know, and until they're put in a corner like this whole fucking, I don't know, like the stupid bill, I don't know what it was, the Georgia bill or whatever, and how Delta didn't come on. And like all these other corporations until they were put out on front street, it shouldn't be that way.

Like people should be like, this is fucking wrong, but until they were exposed that's when you know there's a problem or there's a change, right? It's all money,

Tamu: money, cash, hoes. 

Aaron: That's true. 

Tamu: DMX did on the remix.

Aaron: I'll check it out. Well, should we wrap this shit up? 

Tamu: We can. Do you want to do any sort of housekeeping? 

Aaron: So for housekeeping, let me see here. Hey, [01:16:00] y'all I just want to say thank you for rocking with us, Tamu on I've really enjoyed doing this show together and we enjoy bringing it to you. Please listen to us. Comment like, and subscribe, follow us on Tik TOK @whenthebillcomesdue, by the way, we got our first racist hate video.

It was awesome. It was more of a comment anyway. Fuck you, dude. what else? Follow us on Instagram @whenthebillcomesdue we take comments? [email protected] And lastly, I just want to say Ping Pong, Ping Pong. Where are you at? We selling your shit over here. We want to be able to sponsor you.

I mean, wait, we want you to be able to sponsor us, right?

You know what the fuck I meant. I love ping pong. 

I'm done 

ping pong,  I can write them a jingle. We could bring it here to the States. Nobody in Maine will probably eat it, but I will. 

Anyway, that's it. What about you? [01:17:00]

Tamu: I am still one vaccine down for being a hundred percent vaccinated, so kudos to that. If you in your town or area can get vaccinated, definitely do that. Sign up for whatever. Waitlist you have to go on to your hospitals with sites and also check like Walmarts and CVS and Walgreens in your neighborhoods and areas to see if that happens for you.

definitely worth doing and getting that process started, not to say that once that happens, that you can just be like balls to the walls and titties out, you cannot still mask and still social distance. Okay. It's still a pandemic is still a panini is still a Pantene Pro-V, it's still a Panorama. It's still all of those things.

We still need to make sure that we are taking care of the people who are not vaccinated, because there are people who refuse to do that.

Aaron: We were out at a lighthouse today, and there [01:18:00] were several people without masks. 

Tamu: Yeah, just because you're vaccinated doesn't mean you can just run around here, free balling it or free face in it or whatever. you still do your mask on regardless like the mask life doesn't change. Just because you're vaccinated.

You have to make sure you're still thinking about people around you who might not be 

Aaron: right. 

Tamu: Take care of yourself, especially in these trying delicate times. Take the time you need. Aaron has using his brain breaks. Take a brain break, take a break, do what you need to do to make sure that you reset yourself and ground yourself into the present moments.

Aaron: Amen. I'm I second, all of that. We definitely need me time around the fuck here. 

Tamu: Yes, we are kind. We are smart. We are important. And we need to remember that. We deserves 

Aaron: you. 

All right, girl. 

Tamu: Okay. Well, we'll see you next time. 


Aaron: guys. [01:19:00]