When the Bill Comes Due

Ep 17: Tough Love

May 03, 2021 Aaron & Tamu Season 1 Episode 17
When the Bill Comes Due
Ep 17: Tough Love
Chapters
When the Bill Comes Due
Ep 17: Tough Love
May 03, 2021 Season 1 Episode 17
Aaron & Tamu

Love is many things, yall! Come through as we talk about all Aaron and Tamu never learned about basic love. Much has happened in the past weeks - they touch on some moments too.   And once again, another throwback that fell on deaf ears (but not Tamu…ahhhhh!). Bring a notebook and a pillow to yell into after you listen to Caught Out There by Kelis! This song is black girl magic therapy! Yo! 

Show Notes Transcript

Love is many things, yall! Come through as we talk about all Aaron and Tamu never learned about basic love. Much has happened in the past weeks - they touch on some moments too.   And once again, another throwback that fell on deaf ears (but not Tamu…ahhhhh!). Bring a notebook and a pillow to yell into after you listen to Caught Out There by Kelis! This song is black girl magic therapy! Yo! 

WTBCD_EP17_Tough_Love

Tamu:  [00:00:00] Welcome to when the Bill Comes Due. I'm Tamu.

Aaron:  I'm Aaron.... Welcome. How are y'all doing?

Tamu: We hope that everybody's thriving and surviving. It's been a few weeks since we last met lots of changes in the world.

Aaron: Lots of changes in the world. Yes.

Tamu: how do you feel about the verdict?

 Aaron: I've actually been waiting like for this moment to really actually talk [00:01:00] about it. I think I had just prepared myself that. He was going to get off and I just didn't expect that outcome. So there was that piece. It was like, Oh, this is really supposed to be a happy moment.

But I think in that moment  minutes later, I think something went down at Ohio. Ma'Khia Bryant that's right. I guess tradition continues. I don't know what to call it at this point, but, even before that, I just, I don't know, maybe it was numbness.

I've been talking to a lot of people this week, just in general about, as a people, I feel like we're sort of numb and traumatized. We have seen that image many, many times. I can picture it now every little part of it, th the part that stays with me is the part where they pick them up and put him on the gurney and his body's just limp.

That was death, you know? It's like our, and I don't even want to compare the two, but it's like a September 11th, you know where you were, what you saw, those images never go away all of the above.  I think [00:02:00] I'm happy and perhaps a little hopeful, but not a lot hopeful.

I'm really not hopeful. I gotta be honest. I feel like there are signs that, it's going to be a long fight. This can be a very long fight. 

Tamu: I've been saying, and I have been recorded as saying that this shit was not going to go the way that it did. It's great that it did. I'm happy for his family.

Like this to me was the accountability that a family deserves to have as a result of something awful like this happening. Does it move the needle? No, it's not a panacea. It's not a magic. Band-aid it's not a magic wand. Obviously, as we know, it's not a magic wand, Daunte Wright. Died in the middle of the trial.

Adam Toledo died in the middle of the trial the same week as Daunte Wright and then four seconds later after the verdict was read, Ma'khia Bryant was murdered in the streets. nothing has changed. it doesn't necessarily move the needle for us. But I'm happy for his family to have this for their closure.

And again, it's not complete because we have to go through this again in August. We also have to go through the sentencing to see what happens to [00:03:00] him in eight weeks.

So we'll see.

Aaron: that's a part I'm curious about what do you think's going to happen? Like I have no crystal ball to understand.  I don't have a sense, like it could go either way, they could throw the book at them, which I actually don't expect them to throw the book at them.

Tamu: Let's just say if the book ain't thrown,  then also prepare for madness to happen if it's not double digits,

Aaron: I have like good riddance thoughts, you know? when he's sentenced and they post his picture, on TV and convicted, there's a little bit of a peace or like, hell fuck.

Yes. You know, like justice, but it is a drop in the bucket. It's such a drop in the bucket, I hope that we're reactive in the right way. And I hope politicians are reactive in the right way, but they're not, we already know this, so we know this

I'm very happy, you know? 

Tamu: I didn't feel anything

Aaron: it didn't feel like a win.

Tamu: I was surprised.  Like, Holy shit. Okay. We're not going to war. Fantastic. I'm happy for his family. It doesn't necessarily do anything to make broad change because that change [00:04:00] has to happen within our government. And as we can see, that's not going to happen. 

Aaron: It's very true. It's going to be a long fight or whatever. 

Tamu: It's going to be an interesting summer. I mean,  the new one is  Andrew Brown 

one has a propensity to be explosive

Aaron: I absolutely

Tamu: of how they're handling it down in North Carolina. Now we can compare the two things and say, well, at least Minnesota decided to be transparent about their processes and what they're doing. Yes. They're under federal investigation now, which is good for the Minneapolis police department is, but I think we're going to keep seeing this happen, right?

So now we have Minneapolis police department under DOJ investigation. We have the fucking Louisville police department under investigation, for what they did to Breonna Taylor. And you're going to have this happening in North Carolina.

You're going to have to investigate every fucking city in this country. In order to root out the problems. 

Aaron: And even still, it isn't rooted out.

Tamu: You root it out when you get rid of [00:05:00] it. 

Aaron: I think that's impossible.

Tamu: They're not going to that's the problem.

Aaron: The reality of the situation is that nothing's going to happen or it's going to happen slowly. But also think about the other side of that too, is just the fact that things are changing.

We see diversity and it's nice to see sort of this recognition, but also all of it falls flat to like, why now? Why do you have to see a man being killed in the middle of the street for you to actually realize, Oh, People should be given a chance and truthfully  three years from now, I don't think that there will be the diversity categories and the diversity we saw in the Oscars and blah, blah, blah.

I don't think we'll see it in three years. This is pop culture. Where's Me Too? nobody talks about #Me Too anymore. You know? It's like we have a cyclical, reactive pop culture moments, and that's exactly what this is right now. And so there's the verdict and now everybody's like, Oh my God, we can sleep at night.

And that one's put to bed. We elected a black president and we convicted a police officer for killing a black man. So it's [00:06:00] completely done now. Right?

Tamu: We have to think about the fact that this had to be the perfect murder and every perfect circumstance had to unfold in order for this to happen. When you look at Daunte Wright, Adam Toledo, Ma'Khia Bryant and probably Andrew Brown Jr.

We'll never know since they won't fucking release anything. You have people who are like but- but- but. But what? Someone's dead that didn't have to be dead.

Aaron: I get so fucking sick and tired of the argument. honestly, the media is really great about digging up the shit,  for day one, black man, unarmed is the victim. And then day two is like, well, he had a rap sheet and he was blah, blah, blah.

You know? So like, there's always this cyclical process that we go through with these shootings, 

Tamu: Tried to run or she's a big 200 and whatever pound woman. No, she's a 16 year old girl fighting off grown ass adult women. And you probably could have just like done something other than what you did shooting her four [00:07:00] times.

Aaron: Shoot her leg, shoot anything like

Tamu: there were many cops there

Aaron: And

Tamu: and don't tell me

Aaron: in hot.

Tamu: We had to save the woman that was in the pink track suit. No, you shot at her too. Cause she ran she's in the line of fire fuckers. Don't hand me no bullshit.

Aaron: It is blatant. there are many examples we now have documented examples of how white people are treated by the police when they are attacking or violent and how black people are treated.

The most famous. One of all is January 6th, 2021. They fucking walked out of there, you know? From people having arguments and running off in their cars and living, or people out on the run or walking into churches and shooting up innocent, black people are living

Tamu: and Jewish people.

Aaron: yes. All of it. They're all living. Right. so how is it okay. That the first reaction is kill [00:08:00] that black person kill that person? The,  Oh my God, I lost his name. The Latino boy just killed me. That just happened this week in the park just devastating to me because why do they keep doing what?

Like, why, what. Why would you go A. On camera or be on a body camera or B. Anywhere and not sort of step back and assess your situation at this point? Like you're under a microscope. I mean, I get it. There's no accountability. Maybe they got one, but they didn't get around everybody.

So there's no accountability. So their still feeling invincible, et cetera, but so many people, don't even get a chance to explain that guy didn't even get a chance to explain. They didn't even get to understand what was happening to me was having a mental health crisis and granted they did not shoot him, but they could have called someone to bring him down they just need to react differently.

It's traumatic to watch this over and over again.

Tamu: they keep coming in hot. it doesn't end well for those of us who get caught in that.

 Anything else about the trial?

Aaron: I'm glad it's over. It feels like [00:09:00] closure we're nowhere near the finish line, but at least that chapter is closed. Not peacefully, of course.

Tamu:  Do I feel closure? I feel like this was one case in 1,000,000,085 other cases of people who never got to have the opportunity to have this justice happen for themselves, or I shouldn't even say justice just to have their murders.

They're murderers

Aaron: Taken seriously, 

Tamu: This shouldn't make us think that, okay, well now everything's fixed. Cause it ain't

Aaron:  For me, closure is more the trauma of it all. Personally, 

Tamu: let's hope it opened the door ever so slightly. So you could get a foothold into it to, get things moving. I know that families of multiple victims of police brutality and police murder have been approaching the Congress, people to talk about this George Floyd justice and policing act that the Senate needs to just fucking put through, which they probably won't.

Aaron: I haven't been really close to it other than just hearing it in the news. but I do know I've heard, like it's getting steam, but you know, why do you feel like it

[00:10:00] Tamu: How long has it been since there's been an anti-lynching law on the books that has never been approved? you're talking to old white men and women who could give a fuck about your black ass life and until they strong arm them and put a knee on their fucking necks, then maybe they'll understand. Sorry, that's probably violent. but I say it to me and really like, what is it going to take for people to really understand that we cannot keep doing this? Like we're making a copy of a bastardized copy of a bastardized copy of a bastardized copy of something. You can't even see the writing anymore. This is flawed and it has to change otherwise.

Nothing good can come of this. And as we continue to get more violent in this, in the society,

Aaron: I do think that people are not going away quietly. And I think that's definitely the difference. Black people are not going away quietly I would say. So I think that's the difference, 

Tamu: But they're being made to go away.  You have all of these  anti protesting bills coming out and all these States, [00:11:00] bills that say, you know what, if you mow down someone who's blocking your path by protesting in the street and you kill them, you go away free. You're free justifiable homicide.

This is what's happening.

Aaron: America.

Tamu: 2021.

We don't expect this to be happening in 2021. And it is. And I don't think people really understand the severity of the fact that this is happening in 2021. And we can't pretend that it's not fucking happening and that it's just going to fucking go away. It's not

Aaron: It's definitely not going away. We know that

Tamu: We need to get it to-fucking-gether and stop pretending real shit is happening. We need to fucking wake up.

We just watched a man die. We've watched numerous people die since then. We've watched people consistently get attacked. We've watched our capital be attacked by white supremacy neo-Nazis and militia groups. What is it going to take for people to get it? Them walking down your fucking street in your neighborhood bashing in your windows, in your house, then lighting a cross on your lawn.

What is it going to take for people [00:12:00] to really understand that this is a thing

Aaron: it's not in your backyard. 

Tamu: I was talking to Mallory about this today in relation to, the COVID insanity and it's that same thing of 500,000 plus people have died from coronavirus in America and nobody seems to care because they don't see the bodies piled up. They don't see rubble or anything.

As a result of the fact, 3000 people died at 9/11. There was no fucking bodies.

Many of them burned and are bones

We're going to say that that didn't happen. People do say that that didn't happen. They say that that's a false flag operation as well. What is it going to fucking take? I don't understand. I think that people would just rather pretend that it's fine. They'll get past it. They'll take time. Take a couple of years. We'll be okay. Kicking the can down the road. That's what they've done for centuries.

Aaron:  I agree, with every single word you say, but also I think too, like I'm just tired and overwhelmed my excuse is it should be different than the rest of the world. Right? This has been traumatic for me [00:13:00] as a black man. I don't know how to characterize this. It's overwhelming the first of all, I think that's the point is like that it's overwhelming.

For a lot of black people, it is overwhelming to see it. Every single day happened to see nothing really happened and then the realization that ain't nothing changed, you know? That's some heavy shit to sort of climb out of and say, you know what, bitch, keep digging, keep whatever.
 I think people are going through that as I'm going through that struggle for myself. Like I just want to check out and I can't, you know,

Tamu: I think that  there's nothing we can do. Right. We're relatively powerless if we think about it.

Aaron: That's exactly

Tamu: And I think that that's the problem. It's like people feel powerless against this huge overwhelming tsunami of the last gasp of the white man. I believe I've, angerly mentioned this in a previous podcast that we need to say, fuck them. And just start to think about ourselves and do what we need to do for each other. That's harder to do. I think as a group of people if we did a [00:14:00] collaborative effort with other marginalized groups of people that we probably could make overwhelmingly broad changes.

I think the first step is admitting  okay, this is actually really wrong and it needs to change. And you can figure out how you can make your changes incrementally or do whatever you need to do, even if it starts within you, because we have a lot of work to do internally with ourselves too. 

I will say watching Daunte Wright and Ma'Khia Bryant get murdered immediately. My thought was like, dude, why did you run, lady why did you have a knife? it's like you fall back into these defaults of Oh, because, and that's not the case,

There used to be a Looney Tunes cartoon about this. And I can't remember if it was Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck or somebody, but some, one of those characters was selling insurance. And the only way that you could capitalize on this insurance policy was like, if everything under the sun happened.

And so they would be like, you have to have 12 dancing, elephants in a rainstorm coming to your home and trample [00:15:00] on everything. You have to have a gorilla jumping on a trampoline. You have to have all of these random things happen in order to make this perfect scenario for you to cash in on your insurance policy.

And to me, that's what George Floyd was, was this perfect scenario of things to happen. And even then it still wasn't perfect because they tried to use his drug addiction and to say that he caused his own death. By having the oxygen squeeze out of his entire body. So you can't just have a perfect storm of things all the time.

Nothing is ever going to be black and white in that regard, like this one was, but we have to understand that as well and stop blaming the person for the situation. It's not the person's fault that that happened. It's the system's fault that that happened. It's the fact that cops come in hot immediately in a situation that involves a black person. That's the problem.

So we have to retrain ourselves and retrain our thinking on it too. And also admit when we, when shit pops off like that and we're like, Oh fuck. But at the same time, I'm like, that's still shouldn't matter whether or not we don't know [00:16:00] what the scenario was that precipitated that I've made Ma'Khia have that knife in her hands.

Maybe she snatched off that lady. She didn't stab the other chick who went forward, roll it in front of people. And the cop had a perfectly clear opportunity to tackle her. I don't know. I know it's probably dangerous. Just shoot a fucking gun up in the air. I don't know. Maybe instead use blanks, blanks hurt

Aaron: taser.

Tamu: too far for taser. Allegedly wink, wink, and tasers kill too.

Aaron: That's true. That's true still, he had options.

Tamu: There were options and there was not just him there at the scene at the time 

Aaron: they just all expect to come in and kill, you know, another, another, another killing. Let's go onto the next 

Tamu: let's move on to happier things in great moments in , white American history.

Aaron: Yeah.

Tamu: I saw it today in the root, uh, New Jersey teacher was suspended and under investigation for cursing at his black students. While calling George Floyd a criminal.

So this teacher in New Jersey, I think he's like a [00:17:00] landscaping teacher too. So I don't even know why he was having a zoom class, but apparently he said, I hear people whining and crying about black lives matter, but George Floyd was a fucking criminal and he got arrested and he got killed because he wouldn't comply.

And the bottom line is we make him a fucking hero. He says in the recording, also he's not talking to his daughter because he's tired of talking about white privilege and his daughter called him out for having white privilege.

Aaron: I love this. Secondly, why the fuck is a landscape and design teacher, even talking to students about Floyd and his butt hurt over this privilege being called out. Oh my God. Wow. 

Tamu: what is going on in fucking schools, man.

The next piece this is a great moment in, I don't even want to say black history child because I don't even wanna consider this man black at this point in time. But as we all know, uncle Joe Biden decided to have his [00:18:00] first state of the union. And then, uh, there was a Republican rebuttal buys.

Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina. And he declared that there is no racism in this country. And today my girl, Tiffany Cross on her show, The Cross Connection on MSNBC.  You should definitely check her out because she is fantastic. Always flamed this motherfucker today. I'm to play it. I wish I could play it underneath. Nas's Ether track because she ethered the fuck out of him today. Well-deserved here we go. And Republican Senator Tim Scott's hit no racism there. And apparently no sense either this week, the sole black Republican in the Senate sounded a stone fool. When he said this, hear me clearly, America is not a racist country. Okay, let's be clear sound. Scott does not represent any constituency other than the [00:19:00] small number of sleepy, slow witted suffers of Stockholm syndrome who get elevated prominence for repeating a false narrative about this country that makes conservative white people feel comfortable because when you speak an uncomfortable truth, like Nicole, Hannah Jones, the party that Scotts claims is not racist.

It gets big, mad and tries to silence you just this week. Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell asked education secretary Miguel Cardona to scrap teaching the 1619 project in schools, because it would. Reorient the view of American history, lucky for McConnell, he has his own tap dancer to try and reorient the view of America.

For him. There were so many contradictions in the Senator's speech. It was clear, not even Scott believed the words he was speaking. I could go into great detail refuting each of his asinine points, but he did that for me. And moreover, a lesson I've learned, don't argue with people, Harriet Tubman would have left behind It's spoken out about his encounters with law [00:20:00] enforcement and he co-sponsored the anti-lynching bill in the Senate, but there are two sides to every token. So thirsty for white approval,this dude actually stood on the national stage to defend the voter suppression law in Georgia, even though last month, 361 bills were being introduced in 47 States.

Keep people who look like him out of the ballot box. The ability to shame the ancestors and appease the oppressors all in one speech. That's extreme though. Not quite like the domestic violent extremism that the department of Homeland security is investigating within its own ranks. Mind you, but please Senator, say more about how unracist the country is while you trod out that tired line about going from cotton to Congress, to clown, perhaps this was nearly Senator Scott's audition to be Sam Jackson's understudy in the films, Django because as a descendant of the enslaved and damn near a daily survivor of [00:21:00] institutional racism, I can assure you the question is America.

A racist country is one that has been asked and answered many times over yet. We still love America, not for what it was, but for what it could be on this one. You're not only on the wrong side of the aisle, Senator Scott, but you're embarrassingly on the wrong side of history as well. She took it there a hundred percent.

Aaron: 100. Oh my

God. 

Tamu: she flame broiled that fool. It was great.

Aaron: That was great. It was great.

Tamu: Unfortunately, I don't know if you've seen Kamala had to come out and rebut this as well. And also said that, I kind of agree that there's not racism in America still, but yet still we have things to do.

Aaron: stop sign.

I can't deal with

Tamu: I mean, they put her in that place to have to do that. I know that she doesn't believe that. She can't right, but that's the politicians way of saying things

Aaron: Whatever.

She's just spot on, [00:22:00] like, he's just a fucking puppet. He is a puppet. what is he going to get out of 

Tamu: He's been trying to get his anti-lynching bill or whatever, pass through Congress for forever. Through the Senate and it hasn't happened. 

Aaron: Cause he ain't nobody like, I mean, what the fuck are you doing, sir? First of all, you can't play both sides.

Tamu: He's the only  black Republican in the Senate. So that's why they had

Aaron: the token,

Tamu: then of course Twitter had to  ban the hashtag Uncle Tim, because it was trending on Twitter.

But then I was reading another article in The Root and they're like, it's not Uncle Tim it's Token Tim, which makes more sense.

Aaron: facts, facts, facts. I don't care for Tim Scott. I think he is a brainwashed opportunist. to me, it's always sad to see a black person stoop to this level, in my opinion. you can have your views, right?  For me.

It's not about him being a Republican or being a black, Republican, whatever. I have friends who I love dearly, who are Republicans [00:23:00] that did not vote for Trump.

Tamu: Oh,

Aaron: just to clarify. cause I know you. There's not a black person in America that should be standing up to say that ever.

Like it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or if you're the poorest black person in this country, you have struggled since the day you were born point blank period. That's it. And to sit here.

Tamu: that he's been stopped

Aaron: Great.

Tamu: police. He stopped by the Capitol fucking police in the fucking halls of Congress. Like recently.

Aaron: it's hard for me to feel sorry for him. Cause like this is some victim shit. Right?

Tamu: I'm not saying it to feel sorry. I'm saying it to be like, that is happening to you like on today.

Aaron: Got it.

Tamu: And here we are, and you still are like, whatever,

Aaron: I agree. Like I just, I don't understand it. I don't understand, in my 40 something years of life and having had a, what I characterize as a white existence. I've never denied the fact that there's racism in this world. There's racism in this world, we were born into it. He [00:24:00] especially was born into it. So to get on TV and to be their puppet. And to say this as if like he's going to say this and the world is going to go back to whatever y'all are living in an alternate reality, the world is burning. The world is fucking burning while you're sitting there pretending like you and Mr. Bojangles are going to live happily ever after, that's not going to happen.

Tamu: Like she said, for Harriet Tubman, she went back for her husband and he was like, I'm not coming. I got a good thing going here.

Aaron: Leave him behind. That's right. Candace Owen, all of them leave them behind. ain't nobody got time for that, I will say this. They are such a detriment to the cause such a detriment.

Tamu: It bothers me though, that our vice president can't say, listen, bitches, racism is alive. They just be concealing it to use Kanye lyrics, but they're not even concealing it. they're fucking out in the open right now you all their racism. Like they're just unzipping it and just like letting it flow. I get, you have to play this fucking bullshit politics line, but [00:25:00] like either you wink at us or you do a like fingers cross something so that we know that you're still down with the actual people who got you into this office. You can't sit up here and lie about that. it's a real thing. It needs to be acknowledged and we need to move forward from it. But you need to acknowledge that it's there.

Aaron: That is a problem. And if people keep coming out and not admitting it again, this seems to be the episode where we say, we have said it many times before. If you cannot admit to yourself that you have bias, you are racist. We are all racist. We all have these preconceived bias, inherent prejudices and, inherent biases, right?

By no fault of our own. Just start there. Some of it's fault of your own, but start there, to hear it come from the top, doesn't help. It's like getting the vaccine, if you hear people say, don't get it, you're not going to get it.

[00:26:00] Or if you hear some things bad about it, you're not going to get it. And for them to perpetuate what is already been said, or to dance around it, because they're afraid to make a move, Joe, this is your last dance, boo. And Kamala it's whatever sis, go up there and punch him right in the dick. What's the problem.

Tamu: This could be the last gasp of quote unquote democracy, fucking go for it and go balls to the wall. Be real.

Aaron: This is what frustrates me about politics is and why I think so many of us just  walk away from it because , it's just this game,  this hamster wheel that everybody's on. And it's a bunch of old white people and nobody wants to hurt anybody's feelings, Obama, to all of them, everybody, everybody, they dance around and I totally get it.

But now's the time where they need to just be like, this is not right period, but nobody wants to do it.

Tamu: nobody wants to be that pioneering spirit. And that's unfortunate.  If you're really going to be, I can't even say if you're going to be the FDR [00:27:00] of presidents, because FDR didn't include black people in his new deal.  But if you want to be the woke FDR of presidents, it's probably time to just call it what it is and say, look, it's a thing 

it's fucked up. Here's how it's been fucked up. But we gone and try our best to do what we can do to get it to be less fucked up, because it's not going to get fixed, but you can make it less fucked up. You can work to make these next three years less fucked up for people and having other people then realize, and by other people, again, I mean, white people realize that they have been voting against their own self interests by seeing what good can happen as a result.

Why not? You've been doing it the other way for centuries. Try something different.

Aaron: The biggest hangup is if for whatever reason,  you admit, to  having racist thoughts or having bias that somehow it's your fault. I even say this, we are here through no fault of our own people put us in this position.

We just never got out of [00:28:00] it. And so I think that's a big part of it too, is people are taking this on as if, well, if I say I have these thoughts or I do X, Y, and Z, I'm a racist. Okay. That's great. I'm a racist too. So can we move on from there? Like it's not that big fucking deal bitch. Yes.

You're a racist. Let's move on. Do you want to be a racist? Is your mama racist? Okay. Whatever we need to move on from there. And people are really hung up on that it's a label, it's something that you can't shed, you know, it's an uncomfortable conversation and everybody needs to just get fucking uncomfortable.

everybody just needs to be uncomfortable. And I'm almost there to making people feel uncomfortable about it. I do feel that I'm a different person and I'm a black person that sounds really weird to say in this way, but I'm coming into my own as a black man.

While we've just spent a good amount of time talking about. The things that don't change. I do feel very confident and being myself and [00:29:00] having an opinion and being real with motherfuckers when I need to be, that's the good that's come out of this confidence, black confidence.

That's the only way to describe it as black confidence. I always worry that Richard married, white Aaron, and now he's married to black Aaron which is really no difference. It's just sort of coming into the person that you are, we all evolve, I do think about the fact that I'm changing, I'm changing with my white husband, I'm changing with my biracial children,  I'm changing with my black children, like everything is evolving and it's different and have just this different awareness just about life in general.

Tamu: I do want to say that since we started this podcast, you have made marked improvement in how you actually deal with your female children.  You've been very, very expressive of the facts that you had a bias towards your female children and how you've been really working to make that different because you're realizing the [00:30:00] harm that it can do. And I just want to let you know, I'm so proud of you for that. That's amazing.

Aaron: It's hard.

Tamu: But good for you for recognizing it, verbalizing it and taking accountability for it. And then trying to make changes in that and how you approach them. 

Aaron: Thank you. You know,

Tamu: give yourself a Pat on the back for that.

Aaron:  My 15 year old daughter, I'm probably closest to her than I've ever been and our existence together. she especially just opens my eyes to, this is a young black woman growing up in front of me, , and I need to let her 

from slavery  women were not considered anything, even in black culture, which we inherited from white culture, you know? My seven year old is just all melanin inside and non melanin outside, but that's like very opinionated, very, just strong and just.

A fire pistol. I often, especially with my daughter, I've done it [00:31:00] with all my kids, definitely. But especially with my daughters, I, in the past would recognize things like I'm quelling their spirit, you know, I'm telling, you know what? Nope, you cannot be, you cannot be this angry. You cannot be this.

And then I'm just realizing, especially with my daughter, this is her fucking reaction to whatever it is. And she feels safe enough to have that reaction in our home, and granted, I'm having to deal with it. But, there's something to save for that. And for me to not let her have that, I'm a big do not talk back to me,  that's where we grew up.

 I bend a little in that way because. My kids need to let it out. Like my seven year old she's like, but let me explain. Even if she's wrong, she gets in trouble let's just say she, I don't know. Maybe tripped Walter or something.

She's like, but, but, and I used to just say, no, I don't even want to hear it. Like, I already know what happened. There's nothing you can say to me to change my mind, but I just, now I'm just like, okay,  what do you need to say? And then of course, it's like, well, he punched me. And so I punched [00:32:00] him back and I was just like, well, listen, you're the one that got caught, I don't know what to tell you here, but I heard you.

And you're still wrong. Daddy loves you. You got five minutes in your room, you know? So that's about how it goes.  It really has helped me. I think a lot of this has made me anxious and, I think with anxiety comes  control issues.

I have learned a lot, over this past year to let go I had major FOMO when it comes to my children and sort of thing. So it's just been a really great blessing to  let my kids as much as possible be kids and especially beautiful black Queens.

 Let them express themselves, let them be expressive, let them be whatever it is, and not have society's impression upon me of what I'm supposed to raise, you know? That's definitely not what I want to raise because my daughters are incredibly brilliant, incredibly smart, so, thanks.

I appreciate that. I probably said too much, 

Tamu: that brings us to a really good segue into the meat and potatoes of the show, which was [00:33:00] to talk about the legacy of the dehumanization of the black body, of black women, of black children, of black families. And that notion of what love is, to me, this is your, when the bill came due moment, right?

you've come full circle in relation to that of realizing no, I need to love my girls. I need to hear them. I need to understand, I need to give them the space to be, and I also need to let them be children. I need to let them live a life and try to live a life without fear, and also live a life.

Knowing that they're loved. It's  a very different circumstance from , how we've grown up

Aaron: It's right. It was definitely survival. You summed up my thoughts on the subject so much, like I just remember being in the bathroom and writing the fact that I was never taught how to love.

Black people, they raised their kids differently. They raised them to survive. They don't raise them to live. They raised them to survive. And then love will come later. Like we were loved hard, I've said it many times  I had to seek love for [00:34:00] myself because in some ways I don't think my parents or the adults in my life knew how to truly love us without, being hard and saying, you need to do this.

There's such a tension that I understand now there's such a tense tension and a pressure for black people, black children growing up, to just live. The thing that fucking sucks is  maybe it's different now, but when we were kids, it wasn't like, Oh my God, be whatever you want to be successful.

It was, you felt like just live just fucking live survive because you're not gonna make it. You're not going to be anything in this world. Like we were raised by those people, and some of them did,  persevere and triumph over circumstance, but that is ingrained in us.

It is in our DNA. It is a part of us, that we, that frankly, I really didn't understand until all of this really just like, where does this come from? 

I love hard and I don't know why I [00:35:00] love differently. Then all of this just really started to pour out the fact that  love was just different. So I'll give you an example. A little short story about my life. My mom died was 13.

 My father, was in my life, but not really in my life. Anyway, mom dies. There's a long custody battle. There's four of us. my mom's side of the family versus my dad's side of the family, my mom's side of the family won. When we won, it was like 1989. Perhaps it was the first and I believe the only time I've ever seen my aunt cry.

this was an aunt that, I really looked up to as a kid. I think a lot of people in our family did,  we've looked up to her and wanted to be her and emulate her. She was one of the first in our family to graduate, college, you know, and just had her shit together, I'm saying in air quotes.

It was more of like they got us and they had custody of us, but it was more of like a, let's just get these niggas in and out, it just felt that way

 Now in looking back in retrospect, I don't think to any fault of their own, because just like, Aaron's trying to figure this out. They were trying [00:36:00] to figure it out. At that point, that's all they knew, their father, my grandfather had, I think a, Oh my God, I don't even know this anymore.

Maybe it's either third or seventh grade education. you're carrying all that with you. I think as black kids, when we bring the, like the therapy pieces and like, you never showed me love or whatever.

 They'll be like the fuck out of my face with that,  so like it's a struggle bus to , have those conversations or to bring that full circle with them. Because I think in a lot of ways, I think that my aunt perhaps,  and other people that grew up in this era are just not ready to  reconcile those emotions because that is incredibly deep.

Like it's fucking deep. if we think by any means, what we have seen is horrible. My mom was born in 1953. So there's that.  Love  it's just different and it doesn't look like the movies, and then having being a suburban kid or a kid growing up in popular culture, your fantasy of love is what has been taught to you, frankly, by what, by a white audience, there was no [00:37:00] interpretation of what black love was when we were growing up.

Really, if you want to count the Cosbys, but  there was really nothing. What are your thoughts on this topic?

Tamu: When you, brought this topic up, it was very interesting because  I am going through an issue with my own parents at this point in time. I'm irritated with them for not contacting me to make sure I was alive after my second dose of coronavirus vaccine, they claim, Oh, I forgot.

I didn't remember when your vaccine was. And I told them when it was, but I said, regardless of that, you could've just called me to just see how I was and if I was alive. So I called them on Monday and I was like, I'm fine. And then my mom was like, Oh my God, I can't believe I did that.

And I was like, yeah, but you fucking do it all the time. I said, you really have a shitty way of showing that you care about me. Like I am your fucking child. Yes. I'm 150 years old. I'm still your kid, you know, Get it together. [00:38:00] I still need to know that I'm loved and supported. You are my family.

And she was like, if something happened to you, Madeline would tell us. And I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? This is what you're actually telling me. And I could feel myself getting emotional and being really upset and disappointed and crying. And I just was like, I can't even fucking understand,  you guys have never shown me love.

You've never shown me that you love me. You've never supported me. You've never demonstrated that you care for me other than through violence in some ways. Always been about you. It's never been about me. This is your fucking sickness and your issues, and I'm tired of it. I felt really desolate and alone in that moment I've already realized My parents are incapable of providing any, support or care or understanding of my concerns and issues in my life period, because of whatever they've gone through in their lives.

But the [00:39:00] damage that has been done as a result of what they have gone through has perpetuated itself through me. And I don't want to live my life that way. I try to be really keenly aware of how I treat people that I love, because I don't have role models for this in my life. My grandmother was unable to demonstrate love to her kids because she was going through her shit. And prior to that, her parents weren't able to demonstrate love to her and their parents. Weren't able to demonstrate, love to them and it goes back and it goes back and it goes back. We always talk about cycle breaking.

I think that we, maybe this generation X group of people, are trying to break those cycles and. Yeah, it might be different in other families. It might be different. Depending on what your experiences are most of my white friends, not all, I don't live in a household of people that have had that experience either.

 It crosses all race and ethnicity boundaries, right? It's just, wasn't a thing that was done. So [00:40:00] it's hard though, for those of us who have come to that realization that this is what we need, and this is what needs to happen going forward, that we make sure we let the people that are in our world, understand and know that we do love them.

 It's hard for me to tell people, I love them is really something that's uncomfortable. I don't do that, you know? My mom will say, I love you at the end of a phone call. I'm like, eh, it's just like, I love you in case you die kind of a thing. I don't not that she doesn't mean it, but I think she's just covering her ass.

I don't think that it's like legit. Like, , I really love you. And I know that she does in her way. She can't express it.

Aaron:  I hear myself when you're talking, we always  make excuses for I remember talking to my therapist and the biggest thing is that we're 40 something years old, trying to figure out how to love somebody, or tell somebody how to be loved.

The aunt I was talking about earlier, I've had this, I would say 20 something year desire to [00:41:00] be loved by her and be accepted by her because number one, I came out as gay,  I probably am a disappointment,  I started late in life with, school and whatever this, and, obviously it's this Aaron's shit. But anyway, I've spent my entire adulthood essentially clamoring after that love, our finding it in other people or just getting it from her. I went to my sister's wedding in DC and I saw her after awhile and, it was okay. But it was just different.

I left there and such peace about where I was just it is what it is. here I am running after this,  this love that was unattainable,  whether she could give it to me or not, it was unattainable and there is nothing left in my opinion, you know? I'm okay with that because I have my husband and I have my friends and I have.

Everything around my sisters, my brothers, my everything. And I love her dearly.  I respect her. I respect her grind. I don't respect everything [00:42:00] about her,  I can just accept that and move on. And it's just the biggest thing, because I think in some ways I've been trying to make her feel the way I wanted her to feel.

And I've just realized bitch, it doesn't even fucking matter. It doesn't matter. I can go to Texas and shoot the shit with her and that's great or whatever, or not. When I see her, it's great, but like I'm no longer hung up on that.

it's like a death too, it makes it sad because, that's my aunt that was someone that I looked up to that I I wanted this love. on the same token, I don't know that she's capable of giving me what I needed. And I certainly  moved on from whatever, because I've had to figure it out on my own, you know? It's funny you say that this is when my bill came due, but it truly did a lot of things just  came together. And interestingly, it's the women in my family too. Right. I've hung on to that too. And I have often said, I think I've told you this too. I think have [00:43:00] women issues or female issues, there's a disconnect. Right. I hate saying that because I don't hate women and I don't disrespect women, but it effects exactly what you said. Like it affected how I raised my daughters. I'm holding on to a love that wasn't there or wasn't materializing as I wanted it to. I'm sort of getting this view and almost, I feel like I'm making excuses for my aunt's behavior.

I get where she came from. Right. I get what happened. It doesn't excuse what I experienced. 

Tamu: It doesn't negate the fact that she couldn't provide the love that you needed. You know, you lost your mom,

 You needed kind of a mom surrogate, and while they fought for you and they, did all of these things to get you. I think it, and I mean no disrespect. It's more of an obligation.

Like I gotta get my sister's kids

Aaron: That's right.

Tamu: my sister would have wanted, but it wasn't necessarily what they might've wanted.

Aaron: right. Your apps. That is

Tamu: able to [00:44:00] provide that to you.

Aaron: Yes. That is absolutely right. 100%. I feel that I was more of an obligation than fuck what's the alternative

I never thought about my bill coming due until you just said that. And it's so true. It's so true. Holy shit. 

Tamu: you're welcome.

Aaron: Thank you,

Tamu: it reminds me of is when I was watching Roots it was almost a detriment to love your children and to internalize that because you never knew when they could be taken away from you at any given point in time. I can understand that component of keeping everything at arms length a little bit, because you don't want to get too close 

the  same is kind of true now because you never know when your child can be taken away as a result of police violence or any kind of violence. 

It's a really tough, tough thing to think about.

And I don't know if we, as a collective, we think about that legacy of things in terms of there has to be a [00:45:00] reason why I'm kept at a distance. My parents are kept at a distance from their parents, their parents,  my grandparents were kept the distance from their parents, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And it has gone backwards in time, because they weren't able to fully love because they knew, I mean, even when you make connections, they were stripped away from you as a punishment or they were taken away from you for jealousy, or they were just taken away because they could

Aaron:  As I'm hearing you say,  this is all by design. What has changed? I mean, yes, we have evolved as black families, but like it's still there. Right? Like we are talking about something that we dealt with as children and I have children.

It's still there. It's still there and it's going to continue with mine children.

Tamu: But you've recognize it enough to break that cycle and break that pattern. Right. So that won't happen going forward you're, raising very different children than the child that you were raised as.

Aaron: right.

Tamu: that's [00:46:00] good. We're smashing and we're breaking things as we move forward. 

Aaron: The other thing I wanted to tell you with that. early on probably when we had four kids, I always remember it's gets easier and easier, but I just remember I feel like you,  it's uncomfortable to say, I love you. It's it's not comfortable to hug my children.

Even Rich and I have had our struggles with that too. Like I recognize now, he calls me and he says, I love you. I hang up the phone, maybe I don't say it back for like  or like, I'll say something, but I won't say it to him.

I think he mentioned it once and I was just like, Oh my God, I'm so insecure about it. So I've texted them all the time now. I love you. But even that take that a step further, as a parent, as a black parent, my biggest insecurity, the thing that I struggle with every single day is if my kids know that I love them enough.

Sometimes when I say it, or when I'm doing something, it doesn't feel [00:47:00] natural because it's not something that I've been used to. I've had to learn how to. Give affection to my children by watching my husband and frankly watching,  I raised my sister, I'll say that, just remembering the good parts about raising my sister, I was like a 10 year old, with a sister slash baby but that's the one thing that I always always think about do you, you know, that I love you enough, I think, you know, black, black women families, they yell, they scream. And there's more of do this, do this right.

Do X, Y, Z, you know, and I was raised by black women. So of course, that's in my DNA my mother was a yeller, but undeniably in love with her children, like undeniably in love with her children.

So I had that, I had that, she left me 13 years of that. So that's all I kind of had to go forward on. But, it is really something that I just think about,  do they know it makes you insecure as a parent to some degree because you're trying to provide something that you weren't taught in the first place.

 I think it slowly [00:48:00] gets better and we slowly make these realizations. And again, I never thought about it as a bill coming due until this conversation right now. It's awesome. Thank you, Dr. Tamu.

Tamu: A cost of doing business as friends. we realize these things, not in ourselves, but we hope that others see it and within us. I think  that's the end goal of friendships, relationships, kinships family relationships that we develop. Right?

Aaron: The other thing that someone else pointed out to me among the people and the cultures, that are welcoming, I would say black people are like so welcoming. Right? I always think about like my best friend, Steven.

And th so same aunt, right? Same aunt. I remember we would roll through town and Steven was always with me. Steven was like a part of the family gay as hell. that was the other dynamic that existed, which frankly is the reason why that wall is so tall within those relationships.

We'd bring people home from school and [00:49:00] as a people, as a culture, it's so true. We're just so welcoming. We will welcome anyone into our home. We really will. And I can honestly say, I don't know that folks would do the same, unless they are the same, 

Tamu: or unless they are open to the

Aaron: open, really open to the experience. Right.

Tamu: I live in a very Irish household but our life experiences are similar. The terms of the standoffishness of parents, et cetera, 

Aaron: I mean, we all have those. I think we have those common and that's part of it too. Right? Some of our experiences are common, 

Tamu: To go back to Roots '77, when they embrace the white folks who came in and stole food and bread for their own families who were starving, I think it's the empathy factor where we know what it's like to be, whatever insert situation. And since we know what it's like, we are accepting of everybody [00:50:00] who also going through insert situation. Which is, I want to say one of the amazing things that we are as a group of individuals is that as a culture, if we see that you're struggling, if we see that you are going through some shit that we have gone through, we are 100%.

We were like, Oh, we totally get it. And we will embrace you and envelop you and support you in that respect.

Aaron: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's such irony in the fact that we are these gracious people. we have been a passive culture within America. 

Tamu: That's how we survive.

Aaron: You just see these people in these perspectives, like they're just everywhere, just so eyeopening.

I hope  you and I having this conversation and having these moments that people are having them. I pray to God that people are having them, everything we talked about beforehand, it's not encouraging, there's nothing encouraging about the future, but honestly what gives me hope is that we're able to do this.

[00:51:00] Right. And that we're able to talk to somebody or potentially educate I'll use the term someone about anything.

Tamu: We're educating ourselves. Look at you, we are learning through this entire process,

Aaron: That's very true. Very true. Obviously it's all very important, but if you can just deep seed like deep seeding some good ones, will hopefully permeate the bunch, 

Tamu: absolutely

Sidebar. I was playing Exterminate All the Brutes again listening to it one night when I was trying to fall asleep, which don't bother me about why do you do it? Leave me alone. Sometimes mama needs education in her brains.

Aaron: I've seen episodes two through maybe two other two episodes.  It is very educational, but like people getting their head chops off and stuff, I wasn't prepared for that.

Tamu: So I've been like wanting to  absorb more because I didn't fully understand or grasp or find all of the little nuggets of [00:52:00] things in the first two or three watches. So every now and again, I'll  put it on just simply  to kind of understand. There was a piece of it where they were talking about, I think it might've been episode two where they were talking about the land parceling of this country and the fact that we are literally living on stolen land and we're parsing it out and parsing it out and parsing it out.

And it made me sick to my stomach to know  that's a thing we are doing this, we're parsing out and saying that we stake claim and we own

Aaron: Well known shit

Tamu: land. That's not ours. horrifying to me as a black person. I am  a person born of immigrants, we don't have our roots here in this country. But regardless of knowing the fact that even in the countries of origin, where my families are from, it's the same thing  these are not lands that are ours, and yet we're trying to buy homes and it's just very disorienting.

 It makes you really think [00:53:00] and appreciate and want to,  really understand more about, for me, at least that component of it, and at least acknowledge the fact that we are on native land and at least acknowledge the fact that we are on their lands because we are all of this American dream of real estate and home ownership is off of the backs of people who were quashed out initially 

Aaron: Hmm. Well, it's a very interesting point about it's not ours. I think of, I think her name is Kimberly Jones and right after George Floyd, do you remember her when she just sort of said why do we burn it down? It wasn't ours in the first place,  it's truth,

I keep going back to the fact that we won't even admit that's the truth, right. We can't even admit that's a truth I mean, we can certainly do something about it now, but none of that was our fault. You know, we were sort of put here and born into it.

We can change it and acknowledging it is like, it's a huge step. We could talk a day on about reparations and you know, what does, what does that really mean? I don't really care about reparations. [00:54:00] I would rather care about the fact that people are admitting, you know, what we fucked up in the past.

We got to make it better, 

Tamu: you know, how you get, pay the reparations back. I don't know, put forward every fucking bill that's going on right now to do the anti-lynching do the George Floyd policing justice and policing act, do the fucking voting rights act. And again, let's eradicate student loan debt. Let's give everybody universal healthcare.

Let's do these things to me. That's reparations

Aaron: Agreed. I 100% agree and 100% agree

Tamu: And that helps not only us, but it helps. The original inhabitants of this fucking land who have been placed on dusty busty, bullshit ass, fucking reservations, and told to like figure it out. And the only way  they can do their thing is by opening casinos and taking the money out the white men, which I'm not mad at.

Aaron: But it [00:55:00] didn't have to be this way either.

Tamu: Didn't have to be that way. Sorry. That was a thing I felt like I needed to

Aaron: No, that's great. I love that this has been a great topic. Did you know that? I love you, right?

Tamu: you too. You're my

Aaron: love

Tamu: You're my bro, bro. I love

Aaron: says I can't wait until we can go to ping pong. Ping pong.

Tamu: We don't make our own Ping Pong, bitch

Aaron: I know. Yeah. Ain't nobody trying to get on a plane.

Tamu: All right. Let's take a break and come back and do our throwback.

do it.   Okay. We're back where we're refreshed. And we're ret to talk about our throwback, which is Caught Out There by Kelis. This was, , I [00:56:00] think the song that probably maybe put Kelis on the map in 1999, it's a Neptune produced bop and basically our girl Kelis is coming out I'm here for you, ladies whose mans have been cheating on you. And here's what we gone do about it. Yeah. Basically punch him in the Dick is what she's saying

Aaron: I think it started the phrase. I hate you so much right now because I see it a

Tamu: pretty much. 

Aaron: Is there a memory to the song when you heard it first or whatever?

Tamu: You're going to laugh at this this song came from my Minnesota boyfriend that I used to live

Aaron: Oh my detail.

Tamu: loved the song because he liked the fact that she was screaming in the middle of it. she's like, I hate you so much right now he got a kick out of that.

I bought him the single from, I think Sam goody was still a thing. not really. I think understanding the Anthem than it was even at that time in 1998, [00:57:00] 1999.

Aaron: Would you have been dropping him? That message at that point? Like here, bitch. I love you.

Tamu: What do I, what did I know about that shit in 1999?

Aaron: I remember when the song came out and I think my first impression was MTV. Right? So like they used to play videos back in the day.

I remember watching that video and I thought, wow, this is a really cool track to really cool track.  I bought the album , and truthfully, never listened to it. Wasn't a great album. But I listened to it just for the sake of, tasty was a better album.

Tamu: that's with Milkshake.

Aaron: yeah, that's, that's a milkshake.

Tamu: is that the one with Bossy on it?

Aaron: Um, that's the third one. That's the one that

Tamu: Love to hate. I feel like she's had like one hit off

Aaron: on every album. It's absolutely true. It's absolutely true. I think, you know, I think for her, you're absolutely right. It put Pharrell and The Neptunes on the map, put her on the map,

like Kelis to me is like one of the Parker Poseys of the music world. So like Parker Posey has been an, every gay cult film. Right. [00:58:00] And like, my kids were, we were watching some fucking show on Netflix. It was a kid's show. And I was like, Oh my God, Parker Posey. And they were like, Whoa. I was like, I'll tell you where your older Parker Posey.

She's like cereal. One of these bitches. So I see Kelis that way between like featured and all the things that she's done. And like just one hit wonder, it's like, she's more of a, it's a novelty. It's like, Rocky horror picture show which are bad comparisons.

I don't want to say she a novelty, but like, you know,

Tamu: And she's not a one hit wonder there's three hits that we've literally named

Aaron: right. She's not a one hit wonder, 

Tamu: she's different. When I sent you the link to the YouTube video for this, the first comment was Kelis was wearing her hair in multiple colors and got shaded by black woman back in 1999. And everybody's doing it now. So she was pioneering stuff, even back then, like the notion of female empowerment and being pissed off because your man has lied to you [00:59:00] and is cheating on you or doing whatever to you.

And that's wrong was something that was whole foreign concept. 

Aaron: She's had a nice little career off of this song.

Tamu:  Off of this song off of the milkshake song off of bossy, off of other things that we might not be privy to because we kind of only listened to the hits. And then she married Nas and then they had their issues. 

Aaron: You made an interesting comment about the fact that, I didn't think from this perspective, of course, because I'm an asshole man, but it was very pioneering for her to be, in my opinion, an alternative person of color. Singing this kind of music.

It doesn't sound, and this is all stereotypical. It doesn't sound black. It sounds poppy, like she was like a crossover. 

Tamu: Not only that, but she's angry. And remember we don't like angry black

Aaron: right. Don't like angry woman, period.

Tamu: at that point in time, we didn't like angry black girl with natural hair, not to mention angry black women with natural hair, with multiple colors.

Aaron: , four years ago, [01:00:00] I don't know if you remember. I went to this songwriting, seminar. In Nashville. And so I took one of my songs, which I think you've heard sipping on coffee. It's a really simple song, but the course goes, your love is drive. It's been written again because people say it's very poppy. And it was intended to be a country song. So anyway, the lyrics are like, your love is driving me crazy. Oh, look what you do to me, baby. I'm high. And I'm feeling alive. Got me sipping on my coffee, thinking about the love we made last night.

So I went to this, I think it was a UMG talent scout or representative. And I played my song and they loved my song and it was a black girl,

anyway, this woman says, this is a great song, but I'm not really sure. Country women. Don't like to talk about sexuality. that was her comment to me. And I was like, bitch, it was 2016 at this point in 2017.

 And so I was like, okay, but when you made that comment about Kelis sort of being angry and being, an angry [01:01:00] feminist and alternative feminists, it made me think of that song that I wrote. And the fact that people still today are uncomfortable with  a woman talking about her own pleasure, which in my world, we hear that every day, 

I thought that was very interesting because it's so true that racism sexism, all of the isms are so systemic. You see it in the music and how, these songs  are picked and collected. I wrote that song cause I thought it was a fun, sexy song.

 It's not like I'm like I'm sipping in my coffee. Think about that big old Dick had last night. It was just about the love we made last night. That's left up to interpretation. That's your business. That's not my ministry. As a friend of mine would say, okay, that's not my business.

 God, this world is fucked up. It's so sexist or racist great song. Great, powerful female crossover hit. I would say this is definitely a crossover hit.

Tamu: I would agree with you in that regard, but also [01:02:00] kind of like one of those forgotten ones, because in 1999, at that time, this was very avant-garde

We wasn't ready at that time in the mainstream for it.

Aaron: That's a very common theme throughout our throwbacks too,  I probably say it at least every fucking episode. Like we were not listening. Like we were not listening.

Tamu: you, you weren't listening.

Aaron: What did you,

Tamu: I was listening

Aaron: did you know about Nicole Renee? Ain't nothing changed. I brought it to you,

Tamu: I didn't but also you didn't know shit about

Aaron: I don't even remember the song. I'll punk stomp up. Did we get beat down? Sorry. That sounded the police. Boom. Ooh, that's on the job. Yep. That was a good one. So anyway there were all these like feminist things happening and you know what, truthfully, [01:03:00] a lot of the sexuality and the feminism was being pushed by black women. 

I was thinking about this in the shower the other day video Vixen. Okay. I don't know any black women that were in videos that were referred to as Vixens. I only know that they're referred to as video hoes,  know what I'm saying? There's no respect in a hoe right. There was no respect in that in the

Tamu: but a Vixen

Aaron: Right,

Tamu: Tawny Kitaen flipping on top of the Jaguar.

Aaron: Cherry pie, all that shit, whatever it was. Yeah.  Just signs everywhere, everywhere

So let's close this bitch out. Folks, folks, folks, thank you for rocking with us. I recognize that I have a very complicated life and Tamu is always so amazing and accommodating to my crazy schedule, but this is something and I think I can speak for Tamu.

When I say this, this is something that we thoroughly enjoy doing [01:04:00] thoroughly. So thank you for listening like us on Instagram @whenthebillcomesdue like us or follow us, I guess it's follow us. Follow us on Tik Tok @whenthebillcomesdue, we have a link tree now with all of our links and the latest episode is just one click away in our bio on Instagram.

Other things that help us. We want to hear from you like our podcast, subscribe to our podcast.  Comment on our podcast. We need you to interact with us. It is important to the longevity of this show is important for others to be able to access the great content we have here at when the bill comes due. With that, I'll say, goodnight, Mariah Carey's the best fucking thing that ever lived on the face of this earth.

And if you cut this out, I will cancel this show canceled. [01:05:00]

Tamu: wow.

Aaron: I was feeling some type of Miley Cyrus. Like I was listening to there. I think it was two episodes ago where I went and my sister texted me about it. She's like, Oh my God, you went in on Miley Cyrus I was like, what? I just needed her to know. I was feeling some type of way that night. Miley I'm over it, girl.

But don't say that shit again.

Tamu: It's a party in the USA girl. Boom.

Aaron: we can't stop. Let's not talk about what is it called? Cultural appropriation and microaggressions.

Tamu: a story for

Aaron: Another day bitch. Cause you know, I was saying, I'm glad you decided to say that. Cause I was literally about to just take off my shoes and pull these glasses off 

All right, we gotta get off this bitch. Thanks guys.

Tamu: bye everybody. Stay vaccinated mask it up, support India. 

Aaron: All right, bye. Oh, that's kind of awesome.