EP1021: The New Architecture of Credit

This interview features Balaji Vasudevan of SysArc Infomatix, discussing the evolution of India’s digital lending through regulatory innovation and API-driven ecosystems. He emphasizes the RBI’s Regulatory Sandbox as essential for testing products like LENDperfect Shishu Mudra, which reduces compliance risks. SysArc’s API BUS streamlines bank-FinTech collaboration, while proactive tools like Early Warning Systems shift risk management from reactive to preventive. Vasudevan highlights how zero-touch mobility solutions drive rural financial inclusion and how FUNDperfect supports MSMEs with revenue-linked credit. While competitors focus on cloud-native models, SysArc differentiates itself through nearly thirty years of domain expertise and deep alignment with India-specific regulatory nuances. Ultimately, technology is transforming traditional services like locker management now into fully integrated and technology-driven digital banking ecosystems today.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Imagine for a second trying to start a small business. You've got, you know, a really solid plan, a hungry market, and just the drive to make it work. Right. But then you walk into a bank and they basically tell you they will not lend you a single rupee unless you can show them this traditional credit score, which, you know, you just don't have.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Exactly. Or based on a physical branch history that's like 50 miles away from where you actually live.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah, exactly. And for millions of people, that invisible wall is just the daily reality of finance. So welcome to the deep dive. Today we are tearing down that wall to look at the very plumbing of the Indian financial system.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Aaron Powell It's a huge topic.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

It really is. We are exploring how this incredibly complex digital lending ecosystem is being re-architected right now to be faster, smarter, and honestly profoundly more inclusive.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Aaron Powell Yeah. And our mission today really revolves around decoding that underlying infrastructure. We're uh examining the invisible mechanisms that are being built to help millions of underserved people and small businesses actually access the capital they need to grow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Which is so crucial.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Right. And to do this, we're analyzing a really highly detailed interview from the March 2026 issue of the IBSI FinTech Journal. The piece features assistant editor Pooja Sharma, and she's speaking with Balaji Vasudavan, who is the MD and CEO of SysArc Informatics.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Okay, let's unpack this. Because I mean, reading about things like fintech software solutions and lending automation, it usually just sounds like heavy corporate jargon.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Oh, absolutely. It's the kind of press release language you just instinctively scroll past on your phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Exactly. But the reality on the ground is that this software is literally the secret engine deciding who gets money and who stays locked out. And SysArc is this really fascinating lens for this because they aren't, you know, some overnight startup. No, not at all. Trevor Burrus, Jr. They have nearly three decades of domain expertise building the actual digital platforms and the fund management systems that keep this whole lending ecosystem moving.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Aaron Powell And you know, three decades in technology is practically the a geological era. I mean, it means they have survived multiple paradigm shifts.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, they've seen it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Right. And when you're changing the underlying plumbing of an entire nation's economy, like moving from paper ledgers to cloud-based algorithms, you just cannot flip a switch and hope for the best.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Aaron Ross Powell That would be a disaster.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Trevor Burrus A total disaster. You need robust guardrails to ensure that all this rapid innovation does not just uh accidentally crash the broader financial system.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Aaron Powell Yeah. So before a new banking app or a digital loan product ever even reaches your phone, it has to survive this really highly scrutinized testing phase. And the source details how the Reserve Bank of India, the RBI, handles this using what they call a regulatory sandbox. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Right. The sandbox.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Yeah. And my understanding is that this acts as sort of an isolated, controlled environment, right? Where fintech firms can launch their experimental products to a very restorative audience.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Exactly. They have to prove, really beyond a shadow of a doubt, that their data privacy protocols are airtight.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

And that their KYC, you know, know your customer systems actually verify identities accurately. Yeah. And that their fair lending algorithms aren't secretly carrying any biases.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Aaron Powell Because the stakes in that environment are just monumental.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Aaron Powell Oh, massive. SysArc, for instance, participated in the RBI's third cohort, which was hyper-focused on MSME, so micro, small, and medium enterprises.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Aaron Powell Got it.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

And in that sandbox, they tested this specific product called Lenin D. Perfect Shishu Moodra. The whole goal was to achieve end-to-end straight-through processing for Moodra loans.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Aaron Powell Okay. So straight-through processing, meaning a loan application goes from the exact moment you hit submit on your phone through the i identity verification, the credit checks, and final approval, all without a single human loan officer needing to like manually review the file.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Aaron Powell Yes, exactly. Zero human intervention in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Aaron Powell Which is wild. You know, I look at this regulatory sandbox like a flight simulator for finance.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Trevor Burrus, Oh, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Right. It's this digital environment where you can test crash a brand new, highly experimental plane without hurting any real passengers or tanking the real economy. You get to throw digital turbulence at the system like simulated market crashes, data breach attempts, massive user spikes, and just see if the winds shear off.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Aaron Powell Yeah, that flight simulator analogy perfectly captures the isolation of the test. But uh we should also probably consider the commercial outcome of that simulation.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Aaron Powell What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Aaron Ross Powell Well, it is not just about finding flaws, you know? It is about proving resilience to a very, very skeptical audience.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Aaron Powell Okay, let me push back on this a little bit though. Because the entire ethos of the technology startup world has historically been like move fast and break things. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Disrupt first, ask for forgiveness later.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Aaron Powell Exactly. Doesn't forcing a nimble fintech startup to sit inside a government-mandated flight simulator for months inherently just suffocate their speed?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Aaron Powell What's fascinating here is that the source argues the exact opposite. Surviving the sandbox does not stifle adoption at all. It actually operates as a massive accelerant.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Aaron Powell Wait, really? Because it forced him to be better engineered?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah. Well, yes, but mostly because it manufactures the one currency that traditional finance values above everything else, which is trust.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Think about the dynamics of a massive legacy bank. They have a hundred years of reputation to protect, right? Yeah. And billions of dollars in consumer deposits.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah. They are terrified of risk.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Exactly. They are terrified of partnering with some flashy startup that might, I don't know, accidentally violate a data privacy law and trigger millions in regulatory fines. Right. So by creating a sandbox, the RBI basically signals that they are innovation friendly, but fiercely risk-aware. When a startup emerges from that cohort with a stamp of approval, it removes all that compliance uncertainty. It gives those traditional risk-averse banks the confidence to finally open their doors and partner with agile tech companies.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Okay, I see. So the sandbox keeps the experimental plane from crashing and proves it is safe to fly. But I mean, a safe claim still needs the compatible airport to land at, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

That's the next big hurdle.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Once a fintech has that regulatory blessing, they face this massive mechanical problem. Like, how do they actually plug their sleek modern product into the ancient siloed mainframes of a century-old bank?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah, and that mechanical problem is arguably the biggest bottleneck in global finance right now.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Really?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Oh yeah. Historically, banks built their proprietary systems in complete isolation. Nothing talked to the outside world.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

If a bank wanted to offer, say, a new mobile lending service, they had to write the software in-house from scratch, which takes years and you know, millions of dollars. The solution breaking down those silos is the shift toward open banking and API-led ecosystems.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Okay, so now if you are listening to this, you probably already know that an API is an application programming interface. But let's look at the actual physics of how it works in banking.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, let's break it down.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

You can think of an API as an intelligent, universal power adapter. If you travel overseas with a high-powered modern appliance and plug it directly into a vintage electrical socket, you'll just fry the entire house's wiring. Absolutely. The legacy bank mainframe is that vintage wiring. It literally cannot handle thousands of simultaneous high-speed data requests coming from a modern FinTech mobile app.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

It would just collapse.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Exactly. So the source highlights SysArc's API BUS integration, which acts as the scalable middleware layer. It steps down the voltage, it translates the modern code into legacy language, allowing completely different technological systems to sort of standardize their connections and share real-time data without short-circuiting the bank's core infrastructure. Aaron Powell Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

And that translation aspect is just critical. The API BUS allows a bank to adopt modular services.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Okay. Meaning what practically?

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Aaron Powell Well, instead of building a massive, heavy software suite, they can just plug in an agile loan origination tool or maybe an alternative credit scoring module and do it securely.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Aaron Powell But wait, if we are suddenly opening the floodgates, if legacy banks and dozens of third-party fintechs are sharing highly sensitive financial data in real time, just plugging and unplugging these modular services at will, how do you actually govern that?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Aaron Powell It sounds chaotic, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Trevor Burrus Mechanically, it sounds like an absolute nightmare for security. Like a hacker could theoretically exploit one weak fintech app to tunnel straight into the bank's central ledger.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Right. But the API BUS is designed specifically to neutralize that exact vulnerability. It does not just passively connect to system. Yeah. It actively governs the transaction. The mechanics of this involve strict tokenization and rate limiting.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

So when the fintech app requests user data, the API BUS does not send the user's actual account number. It sends a randomized single-use digital token.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Oh wow. So even if the data is intercepted in transit, it is essentially useless gibberish to anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Precisely. And the rate limiting ensures that if, say, a malicious actor tries to flood the system with millions of requests to crash the bank's servers, the API BUS acts as a shock absorber.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

It just throttles the traffic.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Exactly. It accelerates the onboarding of new partners because the bank knows this middleware layer is validating credentials, encrypting payloads, and maintaining strict regulatory compliance on every single digital handshake.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Okay, so the back end is fascinating. We have the regulatory sandbox ensuring the design is safe, and the API middleware acting as the intelligent power adapter securing the connections. But we really need to connect this incredibly complex plumbing to the front-end human impact. The whole point of orchestrating this massive API-driven architecture is to get money to people who were previously invisible to the system.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Aaron Powell Yeah, the human impact is where the technology really proves its worth. And the source dedicates significant time to this concept called zero-touch mobility-led lending.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

This is sort of the ultimate manifestation of the street-through processing we mentioned earlier, brought out of the sandbox and into the real world.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Well, when I hear zero touch, I immediately think of consumer conveniences, you know, like tapping my phone to pay for groceries without entering a pin.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

But in the context of lending to underserved populations, we are talking about stripping away the entire physical bureaucracy of banking, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

It means eliminating the terrifying stack of physical paperwork. It means a borrower does not have to sacrifice a day's wages just to travel to a physical branch office.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Right, which used to be a massive barrier.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Huge barrier. Instead, the lending platform is entirely mobile first. A lending agent can literally ride a motorbike into a remote village carrying nothing but a tablet. They can perform doorstep onboarding, run electronic KYC using biometric data, assess creditworthiness in real time, and instantly disperse funds to the borrower's mobile wallet right there on a dirt road.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

It's amazing. And the reduction in operational friction there is just staggering. Because think about it, the administrative cost of manually processing a tiny loan using paper files used to eat up any potential profit for the bank. By making it zero touch, the cost drops exponentially, making it actually commercially viable to serve rural markets and thin file borrowers.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

And thin file meaning people who do not have a thick folder of credit card history or mortgage payments sitting in a vault, like first-time borrowers.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

I actually have to share this exact quote from the source because it beautifully captures the real-world stakes of this technology. Quote: Zero touch mobility-led lending is turning financial inclusion from a policy ambition into an operational reality for underserved India.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah. That's a powerful statement. Policy ambitions are, frankly, easy to write, but operational realities require flawless execution.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Decades of government summits have discussed financial inclusion, but it really took the deployment of APIs and mobile endpoints to actually put the capital into the hands of a rural entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Here's where it gets really interesting because zero touch sounds fantastic when we talk about speed and lowering operational costs. Right. But I see a massive inherent risk here. When you completely remove human judgment from the equation, like when there is no human loan officer sitting across a desk looking a first-time borrower in the eye, assessing their character and their business plan, aren't these banks just flying blind?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

It feels like it, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah. Handing out instant digital cash to thin file borrowers based on a quick tablet scan seems incredibly dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

If we connect this to the bigger picture, the instinct to trust human intuition over an algorithm is deeply ingrained in us. Oh, for sure. But looking at the mechanics of digital lending, the risk controls are not being abandoned. They are vastly superior. A human loan officer, no matter how experienced, can only process a handful of variables at a time.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And they also carry enormous subjective biases. They might consciously or subconsciously judge a borrower based on their background, their neighborhood, or even just having a bad day themselves.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Aaron Powell Okay, so the algorithm removes the bias, but how does it actually know the borrower is safe if they don't have a traditional credit score?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Aaron Powell Because the algorithm ingests thousands of alternative data points in milliseconds. It evaluates the digital behavior we all leave behind.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Aaron Powell Like what kind of behavior?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

That could mean analyzing the frequency of a merchant's digital supply chain orders, the consistency of their utility payments, or just the daily volume of small digital transactions flowing through their business. Wow. The platform cross-references all these seemingly invisible data points to build a highly accurate, dynamic profile of financial health that a human underwriter could just never see.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Which naturally forces us to look at the macro level. You know, you are expanding credit access rapidly. You are using algorithms to hand out thousands of instant loans a day to entirely new populations. Right. You cannot just release that capital into the wild and hope for the best, especially in a volatile economy where supply chains break and inflation spikes. How do these massive financial institutions actually monitor this fast-moving ocean of risk?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Well, they survive by shifting their entire risk philosophy from reactive recovery to prevent control. Yeah. The source highlights SysArc's proactive loan monitoring tools. They utilize MPA, so non-performing asset tracking, continuous credit monitoring, and robust early warning systems, or EWS.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Oh, I love the concept of an early warning system because it functions exactly like the check engine light on your car's dashboard.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

If you are driving down the highway, you do not wait for the engine to completely seize up, start smoking, and strand you in the middle of nowhere before you realize you have a problem. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

That's too late.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

The check engine light is constantly reading dozens of invisible sensors, oxygen levels, fuel pressure, temperature. It flashes to tell you to pull over and fix a sputtering valve before the catastrophic breakdown.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

That is a great analogy. The banking equivalent of those invisible sensors is continuous data ingestion. And EWS does not wait for a borrower to miss a monthly payment.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

What does it do instead?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

It analyzes leading indicators. For a small business, the system might notice that their daily inventory purchases have suddenly dropped by 40%.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Or that their supplier invoices are consistently being paid four days late instead of on time. The system flags this subtle deterioration in cash flow immediately.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Giving the bank time to pull the car over, basically. They can reach out to the business owner, restructure the loan terms, or adjust credit limits early, preventing the loan from slipping into default.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Exactly. It preserves the bank's capital and often actually saves the borrower's business. And this capability to monitor alternative data in real time is the exact mechanism that enables highly innovative credit models.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Like what?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Like CZARC's F U N D perfect solution, which facilitates merchant cash advances.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yes. And if you run a small business or ever plan to, the mechanics of a merchant cash advance should be incredibly exciting to you.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Traditionally, if you take out a business loan, the bank demands a fixed monthly repayment. If you have a terrible slow week because of a bad storm, the bank does not care. The payment is still due, which can just crush your cash reserves.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Right, it's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

But a merchant cash advance ties your repayment directly to your future sales using that alternative data flow.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, the loan obligation scales dynamically. So cool. If the business has a slow week, the alternative data from their point of sales system registers the drop in revenue, and the loan repayment obligation automatically scales down to match their actual cash flow.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And if they have a boom week, they pay back a slightly higher percentage.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

It eliminates the massive friction of rigid credit scores. Your future access to growth capital is no longer held hostage by an outdated file in a vault. It is a living, breathing reflection of your real-time daily hustle.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

It aligns the success of the lender perfectly with the reality of the borrower.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And, you know, we have spent a lot of time discussing these invisible, cloud-based Marvel's APIs, mobile wallets, alternative data. But the source details a fascinating application of SysArch technology that grounds all of this in heavy physical reality.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

They are not just building the future, they are forcibly modernizing the oldest, most manual artifacts of legacy banking.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

You were talking about the safe locker management solution, which is so wild because when we discuss digital transformation, our brains immediately picture weightless data, you know, mobile apps, crypto, cloud servers.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Right, the cloud.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

We almost never think about safe deposit boxes. These are literal heavy steel vaults sitting in the basements of physical bank branches, managed by physical keys and paper ledgers.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Is the ultimate analog holdout.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Seriously.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

But a fully integrated banking ecosystem cannot have blind spots. SysArc is taking the physical weight of that steel vault and wrapping it in weightless digital architecture.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

How does that even work?

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Well, they are digitizing the locker allocation process, tracking access in real time, creating undeniable cryptographic audit trails, and pushing instant notifications to the customer's phone the moment the locker is accessed.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

It creates an incredible paradox. To build the future of frictionless digital finance, software engineers are writing complex code to manage hundred-year-old steel boxes.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

It just demonstrates that true digital transformation is comprehensive. It leaves no legacy stone unturned. And honestly, this integration of the very old with the very new highlights a really brutal competitive dynamic in the fintech space.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah. CSARC is operating against highly aggressive, newer, digital native competitors. The source explicitly mentions global cloud-first platforms like Mambu and SyncTara.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So what does this all mean? Because in the broader tech world, being a 30-year-old company is almost always viewed as a fatal disadvantage. Right. The assumption is that you are sluggish, weighed down by millions of lines of legacy code, while these shining new startups born entirely in the cloud just sprint right past you.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

That's the stereotype.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

But looking at the evidence here, Sysark's age and ground level experience is actually their ultimate superpower against these global platforms.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Exactly. The mechanics of banking require more than just sleek, agile code. Finance is an environment dictated by deep, unforgiving regulatory realities. Yeah. A brilliant cloud native platform built in Silicon Valley or London might offer incredible processing speed, but it often stumbles when it hits the labyrinth of India-specific compliance nuances.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

It goes right back to our conversation about the flight simulator and the vintage wiring. SysArc knows exactly where the old pipes are buried.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

They do.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

They understand the entire life cycle from the very first mobile loan origination through the early warning risk sensors down to the digital audit trail of a physical steel vault. They blend modern API agility with a proven, foundational understanding of the local regulatory environment. It is the difference between knowing how to build a beautiful, high-pressure digital water pipe and knowing exactly where that pipe needs to bend, twist, and adapt to fit inside a hundred-year-old building without blowing out the walls.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

That contextual customization is exactly how you deliver a digital lending ecosystem that actually scales without collapsing.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

So to bring this all back to the surface for you, today we have explored the invisible architecture radically transforming who gets access to money.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

We covered a lot of ground.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

We did. We started in the protective flight simulator of the RBI's regulatory sandbox, proving that trust accelerates innovation. We saw how API middleware acts as an intelligent adapter, securely stepping down the voltage between agile fintechs and legacy mainframes.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Right. And we examined the mechanical realities of zero-touch lending, you know, breaking down the physical barriers to financial inclusion. We unpacked how early warning systems use alternative data as check engine lights to prevent systemic breakdowns. And we saw how even the heaviest steel vaults are being wired into the digital grid.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

It is a massive, carefully orchestrated symphony of technology, regulation, and human impact. It is a powerful reminder that behind every simple, instant loan approval that pops up on your screen, there is an invisible, highly contested city of infrastructure working relentlessly to make it happen securely.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

And as that infrastructure continues to evolve, the metrics by which it evaluates us will profoundly change.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Which leads to a final slightly provocative thought for you to ponder. We discussed how alternative data, your daily digital footfall, your supply chain payments, your UPI transactions, is underwriting merchant cash advances today. Yeah. But follow that trajectory into the future. As absolutely every aspect of human commerce becomes digitized, will your future access to credit, housing, or capital be determined not by the static balance in your bank account, but by the totality of your digital footprint?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

It's a huge question.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

What happens when every single digital action you take, every behavioral pattern you exhibit online is essentially building or destroying your alternative credit score in real time?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

The infrastructure to do exactly that is already being laid down.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

It is certainly something to think about the next time you tap agree on a digital platform or make a seamless mobile payment. Thank you so much for joining us on this deep dive. Keep staying curious and keep questioning the invisible systems operating all around you. We'll catch you next time.