On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with Julie Clark, chief executive officer at the Traverse Area Recreation and Transportation (TART) Trails.
Clark talks about how she and her family made their way from North Carolina to Traverse City and embraced the northern Michigan outdoors.
TART is among many organizations around the state with leaders working with local, state and federal government agencies, as well as foundations and private donors, to grow Michigan’s trail network.
In 2021, the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis released statistics estimating that outdoor recreation accounted for $862 billion in economic output (consumer spending), 1.9 percent (or $454 billion) of gross domestic product (GDP), and supported 4.5 million jobs. In Michigan, outdoor recreation in 2021 contributed $10.8 billion to the state economy, as well as supported 109,000 jobs and $5 billion in wages.
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with Julie Clark, chief executive officer at the Traverse Area Recreation and Transportation (TART) Trails.
Clark talks about how she and her family made their way from North Carolina to Traverse City and embraced the northern Michigan outdoors.
TART is among many organizations around the state with leaders working with local, state and federal government agencies, as well as foundations and private donors, to grow Michigan’s trail network.
In 2021, the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis released statistics estimating that outdoor recreation accounted for $862 billion in economic output (consumer spending), 1.9 percent (or $454 billion) of gross domestic product (GDP), and supported 4.5 million jobs. In Michigan, outdoor recreation in 2021 contributed $10.8 billion to the state economy, as well as supported 109,000 jobs and $5 billion in wages.
Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast. I'm Jeff Cranston. It's Earth Week, or at least we're just a few days off Earth Day 2024, and I thought it might be a good time to focus on some of the things that transportation involves that help us get outside, get into the woods or on the trails. And who better to do that than Julie Clark, who is the chief executive officer at the Traverse Area Recreational Transportation Trails, known as TART, and she's been there for about 14 years and accomplished some wonderful things. There are several great trail organizations across the state that are, you know, raising money and working with local and state government and sometimes the federal government to achieve their dreams and make the outdoors more accessible to everybody. So I hope you enjoy the conversation with Julie. So, once again, julie, as I mentioned in the intro, is the Traverse Area Recreation and Transportation CEO. That stands for TART TART Trails is what we call it. Let's talk a little first about you and your career trajectory and how you landed in Traverse City and in this position.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I landed in Traverse City like most people do. It lured me. I had been in Charlotte, north Carolina, with husband and family. We'd been looking all over the United States for a place to land Charlotte. We loved it, but there were things that we, you know, didn't fit a growing family for us and so during that year plus long search of looking everywhere, we decided we wanted a place first, before a job, and so we started looking at places and then the job for the executive director at the time came up. I had worked with a firm, corbin Design, and Mark Vanderclip, out of Traverse City on signage for the trails program that I ran in Mecklenburg County. So that's Charlotte and I'd heard all about Traverse City. It always looked really pretty, though I did laugh because Mark would share like I went skiing in May and that sounded weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so North Carolina to Northern Michigan is a different definition of climate change, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Right, and I did it. We did it all backwards, right. I came from Indiana, went to Florida, went to North Carolina and wound up in Michigan Like I'm doing it all wrong, apparently, because this is where we want to grow old and this is where we want to retire. So, yeah, so I found a job that actually, through again knowing it through Mark, saw that there was a position opening. Actually, through again knowing it through Mark, saw that there was a position opening. This was back in 2010. So Charlotte had just hit the cliff financial cliff so it was a good time to think about moving. The kids were little and, like I said, we went place first. So I remember doing like a lot of climate research on we have in florida, north carolina. We knew drought, we knew it well. We knew fire, well, um, and we didn't want that. And so we, we looked at that. I admit we also looked at breweries per like capita and that was pretty exciting and the water.
Speaker 1:The water and the clean air, uh, were super important to us. And so, um, when I got the opportunity to interview and came up the minute, we flew in, you know, and we saw what we saw those woods and those waters my husband leaned over and said don't screw this up, that's how we knew.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess, yeah, if you lived in a city built on banking, that was a good time to get out for sure. Turns out yeah Well. So talk about I mean I've come to know you and your position as, I mean, truly tireless. I know it's a cliche, but you really are. What feeds your energy and your passions for the trail work?
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, the people, whether it's working with partners, my team, the community right. What I love about TART and all the jobs I've had professionally it's always been a public service job and so what TART does is listen to community members, community leaders, to try and help them accomplish their goals. It feels really good Some days. Maybe I wish I didn't have to think or feel so much because you know you go to bed thinking about it. I can't go anywhere without like measuring a trail or looking at a radius or whatever. But I really love the service part of it and trying to help community meet their goals. And then I'll admit some days, rage man, that's what gets me up because I want a better world. So yeah, I get up because I'm feisty and fired up.
Speaker 2:So this doesn't seem too parochial because I'm focusing on one particular trail organization, because I'm focusing on one particular trail organization in one part of the state, talk about how what you do ties into a much broader plan and network across the state. And you know what Fred Meyer endowed with the Meyer Foundation and the various trails. I mean things are going on everywhere and you guys are focused on mostly Grand Traverse and Leelanau counties. Or do you go beyond that a little bit?
Speaker 1:We're now headed into Antrim with the Nequema Trailway. So yeah, antrim, grand Traverse and Leelanau exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what's your bigger vision?
Speaker 1:Well, that was part of the appeal of Michigan too is that Michigan really understood its outdoors and natural resources in ways that some of the other states we came from didn't. This is it's part of Michigan's appeal and heritage and what I think communities are most passionate about right Our water, our woods and our access to them. The Trust Fund is a great example of putting that into practice.
Speaker 2:That's the Department of Natural Resources, trust Fund.
Speaker 1:Yeah, michigan DNR, although I always like to point out who funds more trails.
Speaker 2:That's the DOT, thank you. Thank you for that Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:So for me landing in northern Michigan, you might think, right, we're remote, we do our own thing in our own pocket of the world. So, not true? The plans that the state has and the rail trails that the Michigan DNR, you know, has built. There's always been an interest to make these bigger connections. Probably comes from that. I don't know from our cultural history of making those kind of larger connections whether you're going way back to the, you know, indigenous folks that were here to now. It's always been about those connections. And so I found an incredibly passionate group of folks all around the state and funders, whether that's DOT, dnr on the private side. That's new. The private investment in the trail network throughout the state has just been phenomenal, very different from where I came from in Florida and North Carolina, and so why?
Speaker 2:do you think that is? I mean in part because of where you are now. You've got, you're in a place with a lot of retirees, obviously, and they become benefactors for this kind of thing. But it's more than that, right.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. I mean Detroit. We did something right the Riverfront Conservancy. I think what got me exposed to all this I'm going to thank Governor Snyder for that was and the DNR director at the time, rodney Stokes. I was put on the blue ribbon panel for parks, so that was back in 2010. And just being exposed to all the different work that's being done around the state and the Detroit Riverfront Conservancy and their work building the trail down there, for example, that was the first time I understood how important private dollars were in the not only the building but the maintenance of our trail network. What they did in Detroit they did with private dollars. That was exactly equivalent to what I had just left doing along the Little Sugar Creek Greenway in North Carolina, and that was all public dollars, a complete inverse.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Totally, and for me it was a mind bender because I'm like wait, what the private side is doing, like all this work and what I think. I think the thing that maybe is different for us in Michigan is the the private side has always been super engaged. I don't know if it's that kind of bootstrap type feeling we like to have. I always thought it was just northern Michigan and that, you know, get government out of the way, but I don't think that's it. I think the private side has that ability to react more quickly, to be more nimble and to work really collaboratively with state and local governments. Maybe it's the township feeling right Of, like there's so much local government.
Speaker 2:You got to figure out how to work with it. Yeah, 1,250 townships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there's been just such and like Michigan as the trail state it. Maybe it made it a tagline back in 2014 or whenever that was 2020. I don't remember anymore when Governor Snyder kind of put out that vision of Michigan as the trail state, dnr, dot. I feel like they've always been doing that and it was really nice to see it elevated to that level.
Speaker 2:So that riverfront you talk about in Detroit. I used to be down there when there was very little going on, very little activity, and I always thought, man, this river is beautiful and I remember when we had a dedication for MDOT's role in that, you know, with the splash pad and some of the other features that go along with it being an event there and I remarked to somebody that I was standing next to you know, I know it's a cliche, but the same thing that made Detroit what it is in the first place can make Detroit what it is again, and that's the river. And an elderly woman sitting there by said I don't think that's cliche at all. So that's what's going on. And now, with the Gordie Howe International Bridge, you're going to have a connection to crossing to Canada and you could ride trails all the way to Niagara. I mean, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, yeah, oh. I can't wait. Actually I've done the route there over in Quebec and it's amazing, so yeah, so that's really cool.
Speaker 2:Well, talk about, I guess, where was TART when you arrived and where is it now and where's it going?
Speaker 1:TART when you arrived and where is it now and where's it going? Yeah, so what I love about TART is we've always been. We've been around for a long time, right, we started in 2008, 2009. No, sorry 2000. We're 30 years or 25 years old? So bad math there, sorry, 2000. We're 30 years or 25 years old? So bad math there.
Speaker 1:We were four different trail groups that came together and this is, I think, a really important reminder for me now today. So we started off as four separate trail groups, each doing their own thing, each starting for different reasons, but all having that vision of trails as both transportation, recreation and economic development opportunities. All of them were of that mindset, which is pretty great. We were encouraged to get our act together and join together and be stronger as one, and that's what we did. So those were our first 10 years and Bob Outwell really led that. So when I came on board, bob Outwell had been here. He said Trevor City had lived in. Trevor City was an engineer and he was really focused on trying to move things forward and really had a great bike and ped perspective. Right, that bikes and pedestrians should be leading the way in the type of transportation and infrastructure focus for our urban areas. So I came at that time, 2010, and my directive from the board was get asphalt on the ground, make these trail connections that we've been talking about happen, and so that's what we've done over the past. So I've been here 14 years now. That's weird to say yeah, like I only know that because I see my kids. They're very different now, but we started to make those connections so we've doubled our trail mileage, so we're now a little over 100 miles of trail are on the ground in our region and we've been what I think is reflective of our roots as well, as I think my interest is bringing communities together right.
Speaker 1:Trails are not brought to you by TARP trails. They never have been. Our job has always been to try to get the community members and their voices heard. The leadership you know. Sometimes they're really engaged and really wanting to go at it, and sometimes they're a little reticent because maybe they don't know or they maybe don't agree. So how to get to yes and get things moving has always been part of who we were at TART and who I am, and that's been a lot of fun and to build that team around TART.
Speaker 1:We were pretty small when I came, we had about five people. We have doubled our staff too, and we've been making some. So we did what we said we were going to do. Right, we closed gaps, we started, we closed those trails we talked about, and then we started building more. And then we started listening to communities who wanted connections, whether that's you know out in Glen Arbor, up in Elk Rapids and Charlevoix, and now we're thinking about Thompsonville and you know Frankfurt. And how do we help make these connections happen? I really am excited because what we know. So where's TART going? Our vision is every house a trailhead, so we want people to be able to leave their home. Get out on the trails doesn't mean there's a trail up to your door, but the facilities, whether you're rural or in a town, should feel very comfortable and you should have that safety, which is where, working with road commissions and DOT, we can be your biggest cheerleaders or your biggest pains in the you know what?
Speaker 2:Well, when you talk about to your door, I remember when the White Pine Trail was being developed, a lot of people, a lot of NIMBYs, very concerned about you know who's going through their backyard and it really isn't literally through their backyard, but they feel like it is, and there's no evidence of that that this has turned in ever to you know a rise in crime or people veering off the trail and doing nefarious things. I mean, that's just not a thing, is it?
Speaker 1:No, the data has not supported that. Sure, you can make some bad design decisions, but the trails themselves, it's opposite right. They increase property values, they help reinvigorate neighborhoods. They do provide that economic development. They also provide, as COVID pointed out, some really important opportunities for physical and mental health, and that I think has become so important to folks all around our region and, I think, around the state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a double-edged sword. For those of us that like to ride on those trails, it's like where do all these people come from?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and my answer, Jeff, is always like well, you know, dilution's the solution, so we need more trails and we need to make sure that you can get out and active.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine won't be crowded if there's more opportunities. You're right, we will continue the conversation right after a quick break.
Speaker 1:Know before you go. Head on over to MyDrive to check out the latest on road construction and possible delays along your route. For a detailed map, head over to michigangov slash drive.
Speaker 2:A lot of what you do you have people that work on this, but obviously you have a big hand in it too is development. Talk about that and how you approach it and approach the relationship building.
Speaker 1:Well, it's all about relationships, right? Whether you're trying to get something on the ground, trying to get the funding in place. So the way we approach development is very community centric, right. We try to listen and make sure we're hearing what the opportunities are, what the concerns are. Those are both from you know community members, as well as those elected officials and our partners at you know, because the way trails work is it's, it's. They don't magically appear. All the rail lines, they're done Like. The easy trail building days are over, so these are putting you know pieces together. It really is a pretty intricate puzzle.
Speaker 1:So, working with landowners even if you're not, you know, seeking an easement from a landowner, a lot of the places that we're building are very much you know, within a right of way, and it feels like but wait, that's is that, can you do that? That's my front yard, you know, and that's really important to be listening. So I think one of the things that TART does well and really concentrates on is taking the time to learn and listen. That can be super frustrating because it takes a long time. So development and this idea like okay, let's get 100 miles more on the ground, that's going to take a lot of lift and that's why that community listening part is so critical, because none of this is going to be rushed. It doesn't happen quickly and in fact it's so frustratingly long sometimes that the community can get really irritated or, you know, you can lose momentum. Know, within the first five years. That's unheard of. So things pacing is not necessary.
Speaker 2:You don't have a, you don't have a magic wand to come. Well, that goes. That goes again to the relationships. I mean you're dealing with government agencies at the local level, at the state level, at the federal level, in the department of interior obviously, and you know that the national lakeshore and that's been a great relationship, right.
Speaker 1:Oh, one of the best. That to me, is like a national example, to watch MDOT and the Park Service and the Road Commission and the private like Friends of Sleeping Bear and TART and the local communities figure this stuff out together. It's phenomenal and the product is phenomenal and the community has embraced it and is super excited about it, and that's why you build things right. You build things so people can use them and love them. They're built for the residents, but we are delighted when the visitors come and use them too.
Speaker 2:Well, so you mentioned the Friends of the Sleeping Bear. Is recruiting volunteers? A challenge Again. I don't think. It probably is because of where you are. Do you benefit from this being the kind of place that a lot of people that are either semi-retired or retired move and are looking for ways to get involved?
Speaker 1:Our most valuable resource is our people, right, and the capital that they provide, both in the social, intellectual as well as, of course, monetary, is important. But their brains and their brawn that are out there Volunteers that's been a different change for me from going from like a government position, where I was in Carolina and before, to here where we were built by volunteers. Right, tart started as all volunteers and we're now professionally staffed, but we are utilizing our volunteers tenfold to where we started. Right, we have 400 active volunteers in the TART network that do anything from, you know, kind of stuffing envelopes and writing letters to getting out and actually supporting trail maintenance. So we are very blessed here and that's kind of that public-private. That is pretty cool in Michigan is that private side has always been an important part of the equation.
Speaker 1:So our volunteers we consider them the lifeblood of TART. We turn to them all the time, whether it's again for ideas, for support in getting events done or getting trails looking great. Because what we know is that these are community trails and the more invested and the more engaged community members are, the better the trails are going to be, because they become theirs. Right, these trails are the communities and the community is clear about that and we love to have our ambassadors out there, our volunteers out there. So it is not hard to recruit. It's actually harder to make sure they're all properly stewarded and engaged, because we want it to be a meaningful experience for volunteers. There's nothing worse than going out and feeling like why am I here? So we want to make sure volunteers are happy and well-fed, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you mentioned that sometimes your motivation is rage and obviously all these things don't happen as easily as you'd like. How do you maintain your optimism when faced with challenges that you face sometimes not so much from the bureaucracy of government, but often just citizens who don't really understand or just have a very again nimby approach to things, very parochial interest.
Speaker 1:How do you maintain that kind of positive approach? Yeah, it's actually pretty easy most days. Because we do so much and we're working on so many projects, it's really easy to find a real quick reminder of how important these trails are to people and the work that people are doing. Right, it's not all you have to do is get outside yourself for a second, get out of your mind, open up your eyes and your ears, and it's really easy. You just, I go for a run in the morning and I watch people run by me and I, you know, get to hear my kids as they, you know, bike out to see their friends. It's so easy to get beyond, for me to get beyond those points of frustration or anger, whether it's, you know, a project problem or a partner problem or a public problem, they're all just. They're just problems meant to be solved. I don't think of myself as, like a math person, but really, there's generally a solution somewhere.
Speaker 2:No, it is. I know so many of us have jobs that if somebody asks us what we do, you know and you tell them it sounds like it should take five minutes and it's because you forgot that you put out fires all day long. You know you solve problems and I should mention, when you talk about people running by you, you'll find I can tell you as someone who tries to run myself that more and more people run by me. Oh yeah, I'm a slogger for sure. Yeah, your speed drops with the years.
Speaker 1:That's for sure. But the mileage goes up, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's the important thing. Yeah, no, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I hope we can talk again sometime about some of the projects and some of the cool stuff you're doing and yeah, I think we expect you up here for some ribbon cuttings, because we're doing some good stuff with MDOT.
Speaker 1:So we appreciate the partnership and we appreciate being able to push. Thank you for letting us celebrate and push. That's what we do. Thank you for letting us celebrate and push.
Speaker 2:That's what we do. Well, you've had a lot of support from the previous directors and certainly the current director absolutely gets it. He understands the importance of the outdoors to our state.
Speaker 1:From top to bottom, and we couldn't do it without the local TSCs in there rolling up their sleeves as well, so we're grateful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you, Julie. I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Devler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jackie Salinas. Thank you.