Trailblazers in Michigan transportation

In observance and reflection on Black History Month, this week’s podcast features conversations with two people who served the State of Michigan and the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) for four decades.

First, Myron Frierson, who retired as MDOT director of the Bureau of Finance in 2019, talks about what he learned during his career in transportation, working on the administration of contracts. He later worked on property acquisitions in MDOT’s Real Estate division and eventually returned to Finance.

He talks about ascending to head an MDOT division when he was only in his early 30s. He oversaw financial operations, including accounting, budget planning, distributing federal funds to local road agencies, and other policies. 

He recalls many days early on when he was the only minority in a meeting. But he says the state and MDOT helped advance women and minorities in management and launch careers elsewhere.

Being a good listener was a key to his success, he says, and something he encouraged as a mentor.

“Try to understand a person’s rationale for making a particular decision.”

Later, Rita Screws relates her nearly 40 years of experiences in transportation, coming to MDOT as a youth employee, thinking she would pursue other careers. 

As she wrote in an essay about her experience:

"My first co-op season started in May 1982… almost 39 years ago! When I accepted the offer for the general engineer position in June 1984, my thoughts were, 'I might as well work for MDOT now and take my time exploring other career options.' That was my plan. Oh, well; there are plans we have for ourselves, and there are plans the Giver of Life has for us. They often are not the same!"

Proud of being born and raised in Detroit, she talks about spending her professional career in the city. Working on projects in construction and ascending to be the manager of the Detroit Transportation Service Center, Rita felt an obligation to knock down the myths and perceptions about Detroit.

She counts her ability to connect with others and work with people from a variety of backgrounds and interests, regardless of status, as a superpower, helping her mediate and find resolutions to disputes. 

Transcript

[Music]

Jeff Cranson: Hello, this is the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. I'm Jeff Cranson. In observance and reflection on Black History Month, today I’m going to be talking with a couple of trailblazers in Michigan Transportation. One a former colleague of mine, Myron Frierson, who worked more than 40 years in state government, most of that time at MDOT, in a number of capacities, retiring in 2019 as director of Finance. Then I’ll be speaking with Rita Screws, a native Detroiter who has spent her entire life there and spent nearly 40 years working for MDOT, managed a Transportation Service Center in Detroit, and held a number of other positions. Both of them have some interesting stories to share about the challenges that they faced along the way and what their opportunities were and the satisfaction that they got out of working in transportation. You'll notice that Rita’s audio sounds like she's on the road, and that's because she's a passenger in a vehicle and that's where we caught up with her, but first we're going to start with Myron. Myron, thank you for being here.

Myron Frierson: Good afternoon, Jeff.

Jeff Cranson: So, let's start with how did you get into MDOT to begin with? What was your first entry?

Myron Frierson: I was an auditor with the State of Michigan. I was with the Auditor General's Office for several years and an opportunity presented itself at MDOT. It was a situation where my career at the Auditor General was going to be on it's on hold for a while, so I thought that it was a good time to try another department and I did. So, I transferred over to MDOT and started in the Contract Services Division. What I was doing is reviewing contractor documents and accounting stuff, and I started learning about contracts. Then I had a couple mentors I had met there at MDOT. They opened up some opportunities for me to learn some more in the accounting area, so I moved over to Financial Operations Division within about a year and a half of coming to MDOT. There what I did was I started looking at operations and working with people to try to improve various operations. Then that led to some entry management jobs, and I eventually became a division head. I was probably about my early 30’s, which was unheard of for a person to become a division here in the early 30s. But I was and we were able to deal with the accounting issues for MDOT. We were able to deal with the budget and other aspects, federal highway, a number of different things, so I was in that job for about 11 years.

Jeff Cranson: So, was that the Contract Services Division at the time?

Myron Frierson: It was Financial Operations that I became the division head of.

Jeff Cranson: Okay, so, explain to us what that means in very basic terms.

Myron Frierson: So, I would basically the—I was responsible for the accounting operations department, the payment operations of the department, the project reimbursement, where we work with local unions of government and the federal government regarding reimbursement for highway construction projects—

Jeff Cranson: Let's pass through money. MDOT’s fiduciary responsibility was to make sure that it was being spent the way it's supposed to.

Myron Frierson: Exactly, so I was involved with, you know, working with people on travel policies and things like that, so the administrative core accounting, that's what I was over.

Jeff Cranson: So, in those days how integrated was state government overall?

Myron Frierson: The department was trying to increase its diversity during that time. Even in the 70’s the state government was trying to increase diversity. So, when I started with state government in 76, you know, they were doing some recruiting. I went to Michigan State, so there was recruiting there. There was opportunity being open. There wasn't a lot of folks, of course, but still there was some definitely some effort to do some things. At MDOT, there was an effort to put women and minorities in management training slots. Some of my coworkers received those opportunities. Some, you know, moved on and that was just the catalyst they needed to do to advance their careers. So, I think that that was very helpful for MDOT to do that. it was a situation where many a day I would sit at a table and I would be the only minority at that table.

Jeff Cranson: And you got used to that or was it challenging?

Myron Frierson: I think that's some of the duality of being a Black person, or a Black man, in America is that in some situations, especially your professional life, you may be the only person of color at that table.

Jeff Cranson: Every business is different, every governmental unit is different, every non-profit is different, but do you feel like, talking to your friends and neighbors, that your opportunities to be heard and to advance and grow were—I mean, how would you rate those against others, I guess?

Myron Frierson: I had a desire to learn stuff and go beyond what was expected, and I think that helped. I worked with people and show value that, you know, tried to make sure that people knew that I can provide them some value. That approach has helped me through my career rather than me waiting for somebody to do something for me. Now, as a result of that, opportunity presented itself, so people said, ‘hey I want you to work with me on XYZ project,’ or ‘I want you to take this assignment.’ I started to build a track record of success.

Jeff Cranson: This is what I should probably say as someone who came to the department with only the basic knowledge of a journalist, that you were a tremendous help and mentor to me in understanding both the complicated things involved in transportation funding, which there are several, but also contracting and all the things that that go into that. I think you probably were a mentor to many people, and you drew on your experience to help them. So, talk about how critical that is for others that, you know, follow you.

Myron Frierson: Well, it's important because we have an obligation to help people be the best that they can be, and t's not that difficult. I mean, it doesn't take that extra time to sit down and explain why something happened or try to understand the person's rationale for making a particular decision. I think the thing is also to help people understand that they're in a safe space, and that they can share their thoughts and feelings professionally regarding tasks, and that you're there to help. Then at the end, we want to be of value to the department. We want to do things that can help the department achieve its goals, so if we can maximize the potential of our various employees that's a good thing.

Jeff Cranson: Well, you say it's not that hard, but when you're getting calls morning, noon, and night from a comms guy asking questions because reporters are calling—

Myron Frierson: Yeah.

Jeff Cranson: Sometimes it's not as easy as it sounds.

Myron Frierson: Well, no, there's days when you get calls about a multi-million-dollar problem and other times you get a call that same day, and the water fountain in the hallway is not working properly, but, again, it's important to that person with the water fountain, so—

Jeff Cranson: So, you ended up and retired as the Finance director, basically the head of the Bureau of Finance, which is a pretty important role, but that was after moving around the department and doing things right as broad as working in real estate.

Myron Frierson: Right, so what happened in 1994, I was asked to go down to the Metro Region and serve as a division administrator and be a liaison with the department and local governments in the metropolitan area. I became a non-classified and state employee, so I was a non-classified state employee during that stent. One of my assignments was to look at the I-94 project, and I-96 project and look at the pros and cons of privatization.

Jeff Cranson: So, when you say you were a non-classified employer, were you answering to the governor's office at that time?

Myron Frierson: Yes, yes.

Jeff Cranson: Okay, who was the governor?

Myron Frierson: Engler.

Jeff Cranson: Okay.

Myron Frierson: So, I went down there, and I did that and was the liaison with the City of Detroit and other communities. We talked about project development issues and a hodge podge different things, but the benefit of that—because I was always a central office guy, so actually working in the field, meeting with the engineers, the techs, and planners and stuff I got a much better appreciation of what MDOT did on the ground out there in the field. It helped me in my later jobs understand some of those operations. Now I’m not an expert in it, but at least I had its exposure. I would say that it's easy to write policies and procedures in central office, but you're not the one out there actually having to deliver those policies and procedures, so it helped me get a better appreciation.

Jeff Cranson: Yeah, it gave you a feel for the decisions they have to make in real time and what they're dealing with on the ground. So, yeah, it sounds like that was very helpful.

Myron Frierson: Yeah, it was and so I did that for about almost a year and a half, and I got an opportunity to become the administrator of Real Estate Division. Again, this is an accountant.

Jeff Cranson: Talk about what that entails. A lot of people don't even know that MDOT has a Real Estate division. In those days there was probably a lot more property purchase going on too.

Myron Frierson: Yeah, we were buying for a Hagerty connector. We were still buying for M-59 and also for M-6. So, those were the major projects going on in the mid-90s when I was out there. So, one of the things I learned there it again is, you know, the guy that's coming in from the outside, now your division head, is to show that you can be of value to the organizations because they got a new leader. So, there were things I knew about working in finance and contracts that could help. I had contacts and things that could help and that was able to help my folks navigate some hurdles administrative hurdles because of those contacts.  Again, obviously that developed our relationship, but there was involved with AASHTO's real estate subcommittee, real estate and utility. I was involved with setting some policies related to billboards, was also involved with some changes to the condemnation statute. It was a great time, a great learning curve and, you know, some high-level negotiations on properties. I learned a lot about what the department did and the importance of working with the regions, and the central office, and the property owners, and trying to negotiate with things. Then one of the things we try to do is make sure that we're sensitive to the needs of people we deal with and I—

Jeff Cranson: Yeah, talked about that—working in eminent domains.

Myron Frierson: Yeah, because one of the things I would say to people is that their property is probably the on the second or third highest treasured possession next to God and your family. So, we need to understand that you just can't go in and just say here's some money and I want your property. You have to be sensitive and know that these people were living their lives and they never asked for this, and here we come we want to build a road, some type of improvement, so we have to be very sensitive. We had some tools that allow us to factor in, you know, accommodations and things, but we also had to always have that attitude of we're here to acquire your property. We want to make that process something that is as painless as possible.

Jeff Cranson: So, did you wrestle with this sometimes? Can you talk about a circumstance where you really felt for a person because, like you said, maybe it wasn't about the money, it was this is my home and I don't want to leave and I don't want to give it up, and yet you thought that this project was for the greater good.

Myron Frierson: So, yeah, we've had some situations where we went in—I don't want to get into specific locations, but we did have situations where people had farmland, for example, and they talked about their families being there generations after generations. Again, we're trying to make accommodations. Sometimes we will try to help them go, to the extent we could, and help them relocate somewhere, maybe not having the same situation but at least it mitigated some of the loss of their property. So, you had the individual who had their home or their farms, small farms, then you had the small businessman, then you had the big corporate guys. The corporate guys were a little bit more taxing, but, again, they had their pros and cons and issues that they had to be addressed.

Jeff Cranson: What would you say, I guess, going forward as you look to the future about careers in transportation? Obviously, you were in an organization that, you know, mostly builds roads and bridges and you weren't an engineer, you weren't involved in the building, and you found tremendous satisfaction in all that you did and felt that the work was important. So, what would you say to younger people, especially younger people of color, about the about the satisfaction that can come out of that work?

Myron Frierson: Yeah, well, again, just a number of things that I’ve found that are very rewarding is the mission at the department is to provide transportation for the economic benefit, for the quality-of-life benefits. There's nothing that we do in modern society does not get impacted by transportation. So, even though I’m an accountant and on a peripheral a lot of different things, but I could take some satisfaction that we just built this bridge. We just avoided, you know, this natural problem with flooding or something. We were able to fix that. We were able to improve the flow of traffic to make someone's life better. We were able to help to attract a company to Michigan. So, there's a lot of interesting things that the people on the outside don't realize about government, in general, and transportation, in particular, that it can be rewarding. I was just thinking about this call and I was thinking that they don't do TV shows about transportation planners or engineers, but it can be exciting. That may be a little nerdish, but it can be exciting working at MDOT. When you cease a field and then, you know, all the negotiations, all the meetings, and then several years later there's some type of improvement there.

Jeff Cranson: So, you did a lot of work, for instance, the last several years on the Gordie Howe International Bridge.

Myron Frierson: Yes.

Jeff Cranson: You could obviously, and should, be invited when it finally opens. Would that be something you'd be interested in attending?

Myron Frierson: Definitely, because that's an example of something that was talked about for over at least 30 years. I remember in the 90s, when I was in in down in metro, we were working with the bridge company on the reconfiguring what eventually became the Gateway Project. That was in the 90s and then the new bridge. The Gordie Howe Bridge, again, was being discussed. A new crossing had been needed for a number of years.

Jeff Cranson: Thank you, Myron, for sharing your story and for your years of service to the state, and the department, and for being willing to talk about this. I really appreciate it.

Myron Frierson: I appreciate you giving me the opportunity. I miss MDOT and I think MDOT is doing really good these days under your Director Ajegba. I wish everybody great success.

Jeff Cranson: Once again, we're back with the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. As promised, we'll be talking with Rita Screws, who is a longtime MDOT employee, not quite for decades like Myron, but she's close. She certainly has done a lot of different things with the department, most proud to be born and raised in Detroit and continues to be a real booster and cheerleader for the city. Among other things, she headed up the Transportation Service Center that MDOT operates in Detroit and she's done a number of things. So, Rita, thanks for taking time to talk with us.

Rita Screws: You are welcome. Thank you for having me.

Jeff Cranson: So, talk about—you wrote a little bit about this for an internal newsletter recently, but what were, you know, the challenges and rewards of being a Black female engineer in the, you know, in a time when there weren't very many in business?

Rita Screws: Well, I think initially I didn't think of myself as that. Obviously, going to school going to engineering school there weren't many African Americans, nor women in the field, but I came from a family of five brothers who are all older than me. So, I didn't really see that being something that was an obstacle at first, so I guess that probably helped me. Kind of like I had written, I found it to be interesting as I started to get out of state how the perception that the City of Detroit had, and coming from Detroit, you know, I didn't think of myself as that being an issue for me. I tended to learn that as I got further out and exposed to other parts of the state of the opinion that it had. Of course, I’m just one that wants to dispel myths that are out there about people, you know, from Detroit, or people of color, or women in engineering. There were some people that didn't see me as a typical engineer. They didn’t see what their single story might be about of an engineer, you know, being very rigid and not very personable, you know, or dealing with people, but pretty much dealing with numbers and technical types of situations more than dealing with people. So, it was interesting to work in the field and to help to dispel those events, but I guess I didn't really carry them with me, so they didn't hold me back from doing that.

Jeff Cranson: Well, so, it's interesting to me, from what you wrote, it sounds like your kind of love and faith in Detroit kind of dovetailed with what you developed as this interest in transportation and engineering and you found a way to pursue a career, but that also let you kind of, like you say, dispel those myths and try to help write the true story of Detroit and what goes on there.

Rita Screws: Yeah, you know, I just tried to—I’m proud of my background and obviously being from Detroit, it's home. I think that most people are proud of their home and proud of where they live. So, you want them to be able to—you care for your family. I’ll call it my family, just like I call, you know, Detroit TSC my family. MDOT is my family too, so you want to bring out the best of your family. As I talked about, you always give your best. I was always taught to give our best, so I want to help them to see, you know, the best, and become the best, and to reap some of the rewards that, as a big city of Detroit, needed to reap. They needed to have their voice and people need to know what they're missing. I guess if you still choose to miss it you will miss it, but, you know, there's always a lot of great things about Detroit. I guess I’ve been told that I always try to look at what's the best in people. Everybody has something that they bring to the table. I think when I read the single-story article that we shared within MDOT, you know, it really is true that a lot of times people don't have an exposure. They don't have an opportunity to have exposure to something different and to learn a different story.

Jeff Cranson: Yeah, talk a little bit about Detroit. I mean, growing up there, and working there, and in a role for the state to put you in close contact and the need to collaborate with the city folks.

Rita Screws:  In the past, you know, they've been, just as with any city, I think there's been controversy. Detroit’s kind of a migrant city in terms of, you know, my parents migrated up here from the southern areas of the United States.

Jeff Cranson: The Great Migration.

Rita Screws: Yeah, to work, you know, my dad was an auto mechanic, and he worked for Volkswagen. He didn't work for the big three, but a lot of those who reside in the city, you know, are products of that very hard-working people and very proud of what they earned and what they worked on. So, initially when I came to the department, there was a relationship between the city itself and it's a huge bureaucracy. It's always been a difficult animal. It's huge with so many different departments and a cohesiveness that was missing. Then there was some distrust that I noticed when I was first working in the Metro Region office as a utilities engineer, and I worked with the City of Detroit. I noticed that there was just a huge disconnect and an attitude as if they just were letting Detroit just exist. Okay, we'll just keep it going, and one of the things I recognized is there was a project, they were trying to kick off a project on 4th Street in southwest Detroit at the time, and I found out that the project had been on the books for like eight years. It was because of something about getting a participation agreement or something that they couldn't get this project kicked off. So, you know, it's things like that that if nobody wants to work with the city to try to help them, to show them, you know, what they needed to do or why this project wasn't happening. That kind of delay, you know, was really unheard of. I think the project finally got off the books. So, I was also involved in some coordination meetings that just seemed to spin and stick on the same agenda every month, or every three months, when we would meet. So, when the concept of Transportation Service Centers came up, I was really interested and thought in my head, ‘wow, that would be a great opportunity to really build a relationship with the city and bring about some betterment.’ I did interview for the development engineer and I saw that was an avenue to connect with the city, and development, and the projects. When that opportunity came, I was really interested in it although many of my colleagues thought that I had really lost my mind.

Jeff Cranson: [Laughing]

Rita Screws: Yeah, they told me, you know, lovingly, Rita, ‘have you lost it?’ Did you read that PD?’ But I did, I really truly felt that I could make a difference. Then, in many ways, I had my credibility being a resident. Knowing Detroit as I do, it brought a credibility for me with citizens of Detroit because, you know, they would be off on one tangent and they're frustrated and when I say ‘yeah, I really understand what you’re saying because I live here or I’ve been there,’ and sometimes that would change their whole attitude because they had never met someone. They always saw the state as this bureaucracy coming to them and telling them what they were going to do, rather than someone that was willing to listen to them, so—

Jeff Cranson: Yeah, that's a great point.

Rita Screws: Yeah, so, when I was first hired with MDOT as an engineer, one of the gentlemen that I dealt with was Jack Cruise. I remember him pulling coming to the office when they were going to pilot what maybe now has morphed into the EDP program, but at the time that I came there was no such thing. So, he was looking at having engineers from the Metro area, out of state, come in and work in the Lansing central office for a few months. He brought me in, and he said he said, you know, ‘you get along with everyone don't you?’ I didn't really know what he meant, but there evidently there's something—that's why I call it a superpower where for some reason, regardless of the people, regardless of their background, I tend to have an impression on them. I’m able to have a conversation, and I try to listen mostly, you know, listen and see if there's somewhere that I can help. That's why I say after 30 some odd years that still seems to be it. I don't know what it is, so that's why I call it my superpower.

Jeff Cranson: Well, it makes it hard to, as a teacher and mentor, it makes it hard to pass that on or explain, you know, how to develop those skills to a young person, but yet you've done that. You've been a teacher and a mentor, so what do you do? Is it mostly just what you said, just talking about the willingness to listen? Is that the biggest advice you offer?

Rita Screws: Well, you know, it goes over the years and as we're getting into learning about empathy and listening to people you really have to care, you know, and I care. I cared about the city. I cared about MDOT, but I really cared about the city. So, if you really care, you have to be true. If you truly want to help someone, you know, then they see the sincerity in you, I just believe that they do. Then you build trust because, you know, you build trust in them, you keep their confidences, and you're working with them to really make something better when maybe their previous experience had not aligned with that. Then you just happen to build the trust and you also build an allegiance, you know, that they're always there because they're so grateful for you to make that difference in their life. It's just a benefit to you because there's always going to be someone that you need. We can't do anything alone. If we've learned anything through this pandemic, that is it. We can, you know, overcome obstacles if we're working together and we're seeking to help each other as opposed to, you know, putting someone down or trying to step on somebody's head to get to the next level. I guess that's just the way I’ve always been.

Jeff Cranson: Well, that's very well said, and I very much appreciate you taking your time to share that and share your story. One last thing, tell me this since this is, you know, Black History Month and we're transitioning into Women's History Month, talk about somebody who's been particularly inspirational or iconic for you that's inspired you in your years in your career.

Rita Screws: Oh boy, well, you know why this is so difficult for me, Jeff, is there are so many little guys that have influenced me, that have changed my life. One of the reasons that I said I stayed with MDOT, you know, that I didn't really voice in the article is that I came into contact with so many just awesome people. There was a technician in the Detroit office when I was a co-op that when I was trying to enroll for a class, and I couldn’t get an advance on my salary when I started, brought me the money to register for my class and didn't know me from Adam. I’ve had people who believed in me more than I believed in myself, even then. Like I said, with youth I had a lot of zeal, but sometimes as things be beat on you tend to lose that fire. There are people, encouragers, even within MDOT who encouraged me, you know, to go forward. My parents, my Dad, he passed away when I was 16 years old, but he too even though he wasn't an engineer with a degree. He was a miraculous engineer. He was a miraculous person that knew everything about a car. He would come up with inventions, so he was an engineer. I think that must be where it comes from, you know, and I know that when he passed away that so many people's lives were touched. It seemed like people were coming from just all over. I think that he was the example for me, you know, about how to be good to people and to help people.

Jeff Cranson: Well, that's really nice. I’m glad you shared that. Well, thank you, Rita, for taking time to do this and save travels.

Rita Screws: All right, thank you, Jeff. Great talking with you.

Jeff Cranson: Thank you again for listening to this week's edition of Talking Michigan Transportation, and I’d like to thank Randy Debler, who does our sound engineering. To check out show notes and more, you can subscribe on Apple podcasts.