After a deluge that caused flooding across Metro Detroit and overwhelmed power sources for pumps that help remove water from freeways, there are a lot of questions about how to address these challenges in the future.
Rob Morosi, senior media relations representative for the Michigan Department of Transportation in the Detroit area, joins the podcast to talk about long-term innovative solutions.
As of Saturday afternoon, officials in Dearborn said that city had been drenched with more than 7.5 inches of rain. This is reminiscent of heavy rains that created similar crises only seven years ago, in what was supposed to be a rare event. Scientists say we can expect more of these extreme weather events because of climate change.
Morosi talks about the efforts to build a tunnel that will move water to a storage location before ultimately flowing into a county drain. The main tunnel, featuring a 100-foot-deep start, is being built in the northeast quadrant of the I-75/I-696 interchange.
Morosi also explains why a tunnel was not workable on the pending I-94 modernization project through Detroit but says there are other innovative drainage options in the works.
As Gov. Gretchen Whitmer observed during a tour of the flooding Monday, all of this points to the need for more investment in transportation infrastructure at the state level and to heed the Biden Administration’s call for building for resiliency.
Experts have long pointed to the benefits of building for resiliency, including reduced damage to access roads, lower levels of injury and loss of life (safety), and the avoided loss of incomes and livelihoods.
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Jeff Cranson: Hello, this is the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. I'm Jeff Cranson, director of communications at the Michigan Department of Transportation.
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Cranson: As you no doubt know, Metro Detroit and much of Michigan experienced torrential downpours Friday and Saturday leading to flooding and overwhelming the pumps that clear water from the freeways. This week, I'll be speaking with Rob Morosi in the Michigan Department of Transportation's Metro Region about why these extreme weather events are so hard on transportation systems. So, as promised, I’m here with Rob Morosi who's a senior media relations representative for MDOT and a veteran of talking to media about all kinds of issues related to mobility in southeast Michigan, including what happens when we get deluges of historic proportions, like we did this past weekend, and, you know, what it means and why it causes the problems that it does on the freeways. Rob, thanks for being here.
Rob Morosi: My pleasure, Jeff. Thank you for having me.
Cranson: So, talk a little bit, first, before we get into some of the creative things that MDOT is doing to look ahead, about what you've seen with these issues over the years and the kind of unique nature of recessed freeways in Metro Detroit that we really don't have a lot of in the rest of the state.
Morosi: Yeah, I think that really kind of sets Metro apart from the remainder of the state in terms of being able to manage these rain events that just, really, are catastrophic to a certain degree. I mean, they really are. We're not just talking about the inconvenience of a flooded freeway and a closed freeway and, you know, people needing to get to work or point A to point B and commercial travel being affected. We're really talking about people's lives being affected in local communities. And we have been working with local communities throughout the design of our large freeway projects. And one of the things that I hope people would recognize is that when we're doing a project that is a simple resurfacing or something along those lines, there's not much attention paid to utilities. You're just getting in there and milling off the top part of the roadway and creating a smoother surface, which is safer for the public but really doesn't do much for the utilities. Where we can make improvements, where we can do something is when we're doing full rebuilds. Those are much more expensive, but the fact is when you're doing a rebuild it's kind of like a blank slate, in a sense, where you can do some pretty ingenious things with utilities such as drainage, electrical, etc.
Cranson: Well, so, before we get into to that and some specifics, I mean, just talk about the historic proportion of these events. I mean, in 2014, we had one, similarly, that shut down freeways, caused major flooding, overwhelmed the pumps, the power to the pumps, the ability to get water out to the outlets, you know, the swollen creeks and swollen rivers that can only take so much water so quickly. And now here it is seven years later, and these are supposed to be 500-to-1,000-year events. And we know we're going to see more of them. We know that this is why the Biden administration is talking about building for resiliency and why even Republican Senator Bill Cassidy was on Meet the Press Sunday talking about the need to build for resiliency and how it would help in coastal states like his home in Louisiana. What did you say—what's your latest on the amount of rainfall you got in Metro Detroit over the weekend?
Morosi: You know, that's always tough to pinpoint because you see things posted on social media, whether by communities or by individuals. But, generally speaking, we are looking anywhere from six to seven and a half inches of water that fell, really, less than 24 hours. It started Friday afternoon—or Friday morning and was done by Saturday morning. But when you're looking at that capacity of water just coming in and not just on the freeways, but also on the surface streets, also on residential streets, and, again, as you mentioned, flowing into rivers, flowing into creeks, flowing into streams that really haven't even crusted yet, and you're sitting there and you're expected to pump more water into a system that's already overwhelmed, it's just not going to work. So, there comes a point when we're reaching these catastrophic events more frequently. And I’m happy that the Biden administration is talking about resiliency and others are talking about it because green infrastructure may be one of the ways that we can help combat these catastrophic events. Again, it's one thing to inconvenience motorists, but we're also talking about homeowners and people's lives that are tremendously impacted by these events.
Cranson: So, the I-75 Modernization north of town in Oakland County, major innovations included in that. You've been deeply involved in that. I mean, some of the innovations even include the method of financing the project. But one of the best things about this is this drainage tunnel, which will eliminate the need for some of those pumps. Is that right?
Morosi: That's correct. Actually, we're talking a four-mile stretch. So, the section of the I-75 Modernization project that will have the drainage tunnel is the portion of the freeway that is recessed below street level that's from 8 Mile up to 12 Mile. We are building this drainage tunnel that, for all intents and purposes, has the capacity to hold catastrophic rain events and then discharge at a reduced rate. Now, this tunnel is essentially 14 and a half feet in diameter. It's four miles long, but being 14 and a half feet in diameter, in that length, we're able to hold close to 25, 26 million gallons of water. And the benefit of that is that it allows us to store that water during catastrophic events until the local system is able to catch up. Then it allows us to actually control the discharge rate into the Oakland County facility, which is located right at 12 Mile and I-75. One of the reasons this tunnel works so well is that capacity and that facility is right there where the tunnel ends. But that, to me, is the greatest advantage of this drainage tunnel is the ability, again, to contain that much freeway water without piling on, if you will, when the local municipal system is draining into that facility.
Cranson: And I’ll include some images of what that looks like with the show notes so that people can get an idea. That's going to make a huge difference in that area. We've also got plans in the works for a major modernization of I-94 right through town, and MDOT has worked very closely with the community and the neighbors on that footprint and, you know, made some modifications to accommodate, you know, multimodal users. Done some really good things. I know you've told me, I think, that a tunnel just wouldn't work there for logistical reasons, but are there other things that you could do to handle the drainage?
Morosi: Yeah, absolutely and that's and part of it is actually just modernizing the drainage system. I mean, you're looking at a freeway that was originally built in the city of Detroit, started in the late 1940s and continued through the 50s. So, you're looking at a drainage system that is well beyond the years for a freeway. It's really beyond its useful life. So, the ability to not only replace it, but to put in some, what we would consider, cutting-edge type of systems, which really revolves around green infrastructure. So, we're looking right now at the Connor area of I-94. We're going to completely upgrade that interchange. Right now, it is a very convoluted interchange with two separate bridges for eastbound and westbound Connor Avenue. We're going to condense that. The loop ramps will be replaced with straight line ramps, so we're going to open up, in that area, quite a bit of green space. So, right now, we're working with EGLE, Great Lakes Water Authority, Detroit Water and Sewage, the city itself to look at creating more green infrastructure that would allow for some of the discharge to take place into drain naturally and not compromise the local community system. So, that those are some of the things that we're looking at. Unfortunately, we did look at the potential for a tunnel on 94 and, as you mentioned, the logistics just weren't there. On 75 it’s a completely different story. With that facility right where the drainage tunnel ends, that doesn't exist along 94 in the city. So, we had to kind of switch gears and look at other innovative options, such as green infrastructure. And that's one of the things that we're pretty excited about which will help not only get the freeway drained but also help the local community.
Cranson: Well, that's a good explanation. And, you know, in the short term, I know that the folks in your region are working really hard to get 94 lanes reopened. It was bad enough that it's taking a while for the water to recede, now we're finding out that there was some pavement that buckled and some other issues, I think, with some manholes and things. It always takes a while to sweep these and clean up the debris after this kind of flooding because, you know, God knows what makes its way onto the freeway when they—
Morosi: Sorry to interrupt, but one of the things that people also need to keep in mind is we have to remove probably enough vehicles to fill half a car lot. There are a lot of stranded vehicles that were under water that need to be towed out and, as you mentioned, all the sweeping. Then the real inspection comes in when all the water recedes. So, it's a process, but I hope people know that we are really focused on doing everything in our power to open 94 as soon as possible but, more importantly, to open it safely.
Cranson: Open it safely and address the immediate problem even while you keep an eye on the longer-term problem and what the solutions are, so thanks. Thank you to you and Diane Cross, the media relations representative down there, who I know has been busy all weekend talking to media. I appreciate what you guys are doing.
Morosi: Thank you.
Cranson: Thank you again for listening to this week's edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. I would like to thank Randy Debler and Corey Petee for engineering this week's podcast. To subscribe to show notes and more, go to Apple podcasts and search for Talking Michigan Transportation.