It’s National Roundabouts Week. Who knew?

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has declared this week, Sept. 21-25, as National Roundabouts Week. The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) has installed roundabouts at various intersections, when appropriate, for several years.

On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with MDOT Engineer of Traffic Safety Garrett Dawe about the life-saving benefits of roundabouts.

According to the FHWA, roundabouts reduce intersection crashes resulting in death or injury by an average of 82 percent. They also reduce traffic delays by 62 to 74 percent while often costing less than traditional signalized intersections over their lifespan due to lower maintenance and operational requirements.

Several cities across Michigan and in several other states have been aggressive about installing roundabouts. One in Indiana, in particular, is considered the roundabout capital of the United States.

Transcript

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National Roundabouts Week Kickoff

Jeff Cranson 0:07

Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast. I'm Jeff Cranson. You may not know it, but the Federal Highway Administration has designated this week, September 21st through the 25th, as National Roundabouts Week. The Federal Highway Administration has actually been doing that since 2018. So I thought that was a good reason to talk to Garrett Daw, who is MDOT's engineer of traffic safety. And he had a lot of really good things to say about this topic, and mostly how it's transformed people's driving and been a net benefit in terms of safety and reducing crashes, especially serious crashes. We've kind of evolved from talking to skeptics and trying to defend where roundabouts are installed to now having to answer questions from people who want more of them. And like everything in a challenging funding environment, uh it's just not possible to install them everywhere all at once. But it's important to know that Federal Highway Administration says roundabouts reduce intersection crashes, resulting in death or injury by an average of 82%. That's a pretty whopping number. And they can also reduce traffic delays. And one of the other big benefits is they reduce idling. So they're better for the environment and they're better for everyone's carbon footprint. So I hope you enjoy the conversation with Garrett. So Garrett Daw, traffic safety engineer at the Department of Transportation in Michigan. And I should note that there are several people involved in traffic safety, but his role is statewide traffic safety engineer, which probably sounds a lot more complicated. I should actually say it probably doesn't sound as complicated as it really is. He's dealing every day with requests around the state for speed limit changes, adjustments for school zones, things like intersections, traffic lights. And this is where Garrett will tell you that a traffic light is not a safety device, it's a traffic control device. And then, of course, when it comes to intersections, roundabouts, which is what I wanted to talk about this week, as I mentioned in the introduction, the Federal Highway Administration has designated September 21st through 25th in 2026 as National Roundabouts Week. They've actually been doing that since 2018. And the thing, Garrett, that amazes me

Why Serious Crashes Plummet

Jeff Cranson 2:36

about this is that uh when I started in the department, we were often having to defend roundabouts and going to public meetings and dealing with a lot of complaints uh on social media. And now we're we're more often um having people ask for them. Is is that your experience?

Garret Dawe 2:53

Yeah, I would say more often than not these days. And and thanks for having me, Jeff. I appreciate being here. Um, but yeah, I I would say, and probably it's because roundabouts have been around for a while. I think Michigan started installing them maybe in the in the 90s on a more um, you know, more often. And so probably been around for 30 years or so. So it's it would be rare for a someone who drives in Michigan not to have driven through a roundabout or many roundabouts or a roundabout every day. Um, and probably just are seeing firsthand now the the benefits of them from a safety and an operational perspective. And yeah, less likely to be concerned about a new one going in these days.

Jeff Cranson 3:37

Oftentimes it's uh an intersection that might involve a state route intersecting with a local road and and the locals, uh local community. I know uh city of Walker, suburb of Grand Rapids, requested help with one a few years back, and you get that in other places. And uh the department's always happy to cooperate if it fits the the criteria. Does that surprise you, even in the I guess the more conservative areas of the state, how they've come to embrace them?

Garret Dawe 4:06

If you'd asked me that question 20 years ago, I'd say yes, that probably would have surprised me. My experience with roundabouts or or proposing them, it was usually met with a lot of opposition because it was new. There was just apprehension from from folks, especially in those conservative areas, as you mentioned, where you know change is is um scrutinized a little bit more. But but these days, no, that doesn't surprise me at all again, because I think the their um their benefits have just been proven in in everyday driving for most people.

Jeff Cranson 4:36

So if you're talking to somebody, you know, family, friend, uh on a weekend and the the topic comes up um without getting too deep into the stats of which there are many, do you just start out by explaining that yeah, the the they don't prevent crashes, but the crashes that you have are very likely to not involve serious injury or death. I mean, it's is is it that simple?

Garret Dawe 5:02

Absolutely. Yes. That I use that probably most often in when I'm when I'm talking to folks, whether it's family and friends or or just the general public about the benefits of roundabouts is yeah, you may, upon initial installation, you may actually see an uptick um in property damage-only type crashes, just as folks get used to them. But the the true benefit is that the fatal and serious injury crashes almost disappear, Jeff. It it I think we're on somewhere around an 80% crash reduction factor nationwide uh for fatal and serious injury crashes um when you install a roundabout, and and we've certainly seen that come to fruition in in Michigan. So to me, as a safety engineer, that is the absolute number one reason to install roundabouts and to promote their utilization. Is it's right in line with our toward zero deaths and safe system approach themes here at MDOT, is it it's hard to find a better tool to achieve that.

Pedestrians Bicycles And Driver Attention

Jeff Cranson 6:04

So one of the things I still hear about, uh especially in in urban areas in the the city of Grand Rapids has been very aggressive about installing roundabouts on local streets over the last uh, I don't know, 15, 20 years, uh, is pedestrian safety. Have we have we evolved on that front? Have we figured out some things to make them, you know, both safe for the the vehicles and the pedestrians? I think so.

Garret Dawe 6:27

Um, you know, I think the fact that roundabouts reduce vehicle speeds going through an intersection is an inherent and probably obvious uh safety benefit to pedestrians and bicyclists. But we have learned some things about them over the years that, especially kind of at the exit points of roundabouts where folks maybe want to wanting to speed up and having a crosswalk right at that exit area, can can result in some conflict. So we we've done some things with um pedestrian hybrid beacons, which are kind of like a traffic signal to give pedestrians a dedicated phase if there's you know frequent pedestrian activity at those locations. But of course, just basic signing, marking, making sure that we're drawing attention to the fact that pedestrians or bicyclists may be crossing at these locations as you're approaching or exiting a roundabout, I think has probably done a lot of benefit. And while it's a concern, it's still not something that comes up very frequently in terms of us looking at crash reports or crash histories. Um, it's it's really not a big concern on our end at this point.

Jeff Cranson 7:33

You hit on a key point, and I've heard others make mention of that too, and I wonder what you could extrapolate from that. Uh for other applications, the fact that a roundabout kind of forces you to pay attention. You can't be looking at your phone, you can't be yeah, focused on other distractions. Inherently, you have to slow down. So, I mean, what does that tell us about uh overall behavior on the roads?

Garret Dawe 7:57

Right. And I think that's uh you know a big reason for the apprehension, too, is folks can be worried about being confused or feeling uncomfortable approaching or going through a roundabout. But from a traffic engineering standpoint, that's not something that we should be afraid of doing, making a driver feel less comfortable. Um, because what does a driver do when they're not feeling so comfortable? They tend to put both hands on the wheel, their their attention goes to the road, they're watching for for pedestrians or other uh vehicle conflicts. And um, yeah, they tend to be safer drivers in those situations. Now we don't want to go too far with it and make them feel unsafe, right? But making a driver feeling on feel uncomfortable is not something that we should be afraid of. And I think roundabouts are a good example of that and why they have such a safety benefit.

Jeff Cranson 8:45

Yeah, a friend of mine from the Northeast, um Boston was doing this, they called them rotaries there, uh, long before they made their way into Midwestern uh intersections. And uh he used to say that the number one thing to know is don't make eye contact. Yeah, that's good advice, I'd say. Yeah.

Costs Funding And Smarter Designs

Jeff Cranson 9:07

Um so going forward, I mean, when like everything uh with limited resources and a decades-long funding crisis for transportation, um, how often do you or have to work with the the regions on a request and just have to say, you know, no, we really just can't afford to do that right now. Even if we know overall, once you do that, it's probably going to be less costly to maintain than a signalized intersection.

Garret Dawe 9:36

Unfortunately, too off or more often than I would like. Um, roundabouts are a more expensive solution. Uh, they're one of the more expensive tools in our toolbox. So modern roundabouts these days, at least on the MDOT side of things, when we tend to install them, they're in the three and a half to four million dollar range, um, which can be pricey. And sometimes we don't have budgets that support that amount. So we're we're either having to try to combine funding sources or going with a different, more interim solution, I guess, until we can find those funds. But that's an interesting point because we've been having recent discussions within the department and exploring alternative roundabout designs or even materials that could potentially lower those costs without sacrificing the safety benefit that comes from them.

Jeff Cranson 10:26

Yeah, so I I think that you you hit on a key point that if it's the department and you're doing them on trunk lines, then they inherently need to be bigger. Locals can do them with a smaller footprint for the most part. And talk about why that is.

Garret Dawe 10:41

Right. That has a lot to do with um the amount of commercial traffic or large trucks that might be traveling through roundabouts. So, you know, if you've got an intersection that's carrying a lot of truck traffic, it's probably going to be bigger just so they can navigate it. Although I will say that the truck apron on the inside of the roundabout circle that you see, that kind of that 10-foot swath of slightly raised pavement, is intended for uh truck trailers to drive across in order to navigate those turns. But even on trunk lines, there may be alternatives with smaller designs and maybe a center island that's entirely mountable like that to still achieve a roundabout at not quite the cost that we're used to. But that that's very dependent on the specifics of a of a given intersection, the amount of traffic going through it, the geometry leading up to it, et cetera.

Jeff Cranson 11:33

Yeah, I think that's highly misunderstood. Jesse Ball, MNETS social media coordinator, has pointed out more than once on a video or a still photo that shows the truck trailer going up on that apron, that that's the right thing to do. But I I think a lot of people, uh, general citizen sees that and and thinks that they've left the traffic lane. Um, so there's an education process there.

Garret Dawe 11:56

We've made a mistake in our design, and and um, you know, now they're having to drive on the sidewalk essentially is kind of the impression. But no, that's exactly what that's there for, um, is for those trucks to to ride up on it to make their turns.

Jeff Cranson 12:10

Please stay tuned. We'll be back with more talking Michigan transportation right after this.

MDOT Message 12:17

Roundabouts keep traffic moving, but they work best when everyone follows the same simple rules. Slow down as you approach, yield to traffic already in the roundabout, and don't stop once you're inside unless it's necessary. Use your turn signal as you exit so others know your plan. A little courtesy goes a long way in keeping everyone moving safely.

Jeff Cranson 12:41

So um when you think about the the stats, the reduction in injuries and the reduction in and all crashes and the the slower speeds, um, it just it seems like a a no-brainer. Um what would you say is something to consider and why they they don't necessarily work in all applications?

When Roundabouts Do Not Fit

Garret Dawe 13:03

Right. Well, I think, you know, and like many solutions, there's a there's a cap, there's a threshold of you know the amount of traffic that you may be trying to move through an intersection to where a roundabout no longer is feasible. Uh our most recent research found that once we get beyond a two-lane roundabout, once you get into a three-lane roundabout situation, some of those operational and safety benefits aren't as strong because it's just very complicated. There's a lot of traffic trying to move through it. Um, so we've kind of taken the position of if we have to go beyond two lanes, we're probably looking at a different solution other than a roundabout. So they're not for every single intersection, but many intersections, they're they're a very viable solution, and they're probably most beneficial in areas where you're trying to transition vehicles from high speed to maybe a lower speed environment. So that first primary intersection coming into a town or coming into a city, those are often excellent locations to consider roundabouts.

Jeff Cranson 14:04

Yeah, so when you mentioned that uh that number of lanes, I definitely get that when that becomes complicated, especially if you just get beyond two. But also it's about uh the distance between them. I think I I know a lot of people have, and again, it's a learning curve. Once you get used to it, maybe it's not so bad, but uh there are some uh across the state where there are two uh consecutive ones that are pretty close together, and that tends to lead to extra confusion. So is there a is there kind of a general guideline on that?

Garret Dawe 14:34

I wouldn't say there's a guideline. I'd say that yes, there's certainly extra confusion uh that's probably added when they're directly adjacent to one another. And it can be difficult to sign and mark those situations as well to provide good guidance to drivers. Um, probably other situations where they wouldn't make sense as you know, plugging one or replacing one traffic signal within a corridor that's got several signals. Sometimes that's probably not the best utilization of them either. Um, but as far as spacing goes, you know, probably the further apart they are, the the the better. Um, but we we often see them, you know, at either side of a of a freeway interchange, and that spacing certainly is usually sufficient.

Signing Lane Choices And Guidance

Jeff Cranson 15:16

So how how do you figure out the the signs for things like that? Because what seems very logical to one person isn't necessarily to somebody else, and you can't focus group all these things, but everybody thinks differently, right? Some people think very visually and some people think uh intuitively. So sometimes you probably go with signs and then later have to make changes. Uh, how do you kind of monitor that and and make adjustments? Right.

Garret Dawe 15:42

Well, our I mean, our initial signing applications are usually based on nationally accepted standards like the the manual and uniform traffic control devices, provides us a lot of guidance on how to sign for them. Um, but every situation is a little bit different, and it depends, you know, if you have multiple lanes or just one lane, um, to where how much you want to emphasize the pavement marking aspect of it versus versus signing of them. So it's very specific on the individual intersection that you're that you're going with. But in general, you're going to see, you know, in a multi-lane approach, you're going to see signs that tell you which lane you should be in, uh, depending on what your destination is as you approach, to encourage you to be in that lane before entering the roundabout. Of course, you're going to see yield signs and pavement markings and any um pedestrian warning or or crosswalk pavement markings as you approach as well. So it they're all very important features, especially into the multi-lane roundabout situations, but unique to every situation as well.

Jeff Cranson 16:43

So

Michigan Success Stories And Pushback

Jeff Cranson 16:44

before you became the statewide traffic safety engineer, um you were in the north region, which is uh, you know, the northern half of the lower peninsula, vast region geographically, several counties. But can you think of what you consider some successes where uh you know a roundabout was installed? I I think the the new one at in Traver City at M22 and M72, for instance, has been a has been a big success. Are there others?

Garret Dawe 17:11

Yeah, the the probably the first one I was involved with was in Misich, Michigan, at the intersection of M115 and M37. And that was a location that is an intersection that had significant operational challenges, especially in the summer months, uh, with traffic going to and from Traver City from Grand Rapids areas, for example, um, but also a significant safety issue with because it was just a two-way stop-controlled intersection before the roundabout ends. So I remember when that one went in, um, the operational and safety benefits that we saw immediately were were eye-opening and probably an example of a big reason that I was kind of hook line and sinker bought into to roundabouts. That would be a good example. There was also one in uh US- 131 in the Fife Lake area that was installed after a few tragic crashes occurred at that intersection, and and since has really resolved that issue as well. So that those would be two that jump jump right into my mind. Yeah, that one's previous position.

Jeff Cranson 18:14

That one, especially in Fife Lake, I think is is been a great success. But we did get pushback, I heard from a former lawmaker, former Senate majority leader, as a matter of fact, about it. And uh I guess you know, he travels through there a lot uh on his way north and just thought it was gonna be one more thing to slow you down because it's not far from where the freeway ends, and you go back to Toon Lane and just you know, you're just thinking that okay, I'm gonna get slowed down now. I've I've been on a freeway for you know 80, 90 miles, and then this happens, but it's it's worked out really well. And the same with uh the one you talked about at M-37 and M-115. There was skepticism about that. There were people that were thinking, you know, no way, that's not gonna work. And uh I agree, I I go through there often and it's worked out really well.

Garret Dawe 19:00

Yeah, that's usually the case when we get pushback uh uh you know before putting them in, that that that feedback usually kind of goes away and it's replaced with with compliments. Not always, but most often.

Jeff Cranson 19:11

Yeah, so uh what else have you learned in your job now? How long has it been? In uh two years, three years? I can't remember.

Proactive Safety And Vulnerable Road Users

Garret Dawe 19:17

Um just over two and a half years, I think.

Jeff Cranson 19:20

Okay. So what what what have what has surprised you and where are you finding your satisfaction?

Garret Dawe 19:27

Oh geez, that's a that's a tough question. I would say um certainly the the experience getting out beyond just uh my previous position, which was just north region, and kind of interacting in a more of a rural environment. It's been very interesting for me to interact with our other six regions um and and learn of the unique challenges that that they have as well, especially in the in a vulnerable road user environment. Um more of those urban environments as well. That was something that was a little bit foreign to me previously. Um so that's been an interesting aspect of traffic and safety that's um certainly new in my role. I would say also too, just the the manner in which we select uh safety projects and how we prioritize where we assign our safety funding. We've we've made some modifications over the last couple of years to be much more proactive in that area. And I would say that's probably the thing I'm most proud of at this point in in uh my two and a half years in the role is getting into a more proactive environment with traffic safety versus just reacting to where where bad things have happened, trying to prevent them from happening in the first place.

Jeff Cranson 20:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, well said, and I really appreciate that that you're thinking that way and you're trying to bring some foresight to this. And I'm glad also that you mentioned the vulnerable road users because we've got some legislation working its way through right now that I think could have some really positive effects down the road. So those are all good things. Garrett, thank you as always for for talking about this. I uh wasn't sure how you were celebrating National Roundabout Week, so I thought I should you know get in touch. We could talk about it.

Garret Dawe 21:07

I appreciate you letting me know it was roundabout or national roundabout week, so now I'm celebrating.

unknown 21:11

Thanks.

Jeff Cranson 21:12

Yeah, now you can put it on your calendar every year. Well, thanks, Garrett. I appreciate you taking time to talk about this. Thank you. My pleasure.

Wrap Up Thanks And Where To Listen

Jeff Cranson 21:20

Like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Machine Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Bust Route. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Deviler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who poops the content, and Jackie Stelinas, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.