Feeding Faith

David Rausch, from GO! Curriculum joins Amber to talk about his new book, Feeding Faith, and how we can truly disciple boys and girls during lesson time. 

Get David's new book here: https://amzn.to/4rDq2d9

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Kidman Huddle of Amber Pike, where children as ministry leaders get equipped, encouraged, and empower to disciple with intentionality, growing God's kingdom one child at a time.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Welcome back to the Kid Men Huddle. I am joined by longtime children's ministry guru David Rausch from you might know him from Go Curriculum, but he has also just released a new book, Feeding Faith. Welcome, David. Hey, thank you so much, Amber. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Okay, so you wrote a book about children's ministry. You have been in the children's ministry world as a like resource provider ministry person for a while, but how long have you been in children's ministry just total?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Oh goodness. Uh well, I always tell people 25 plus years.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Um we get tired of adding and trying to figure out who it is exactly.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Right. Once I got past 25, I was like, I just didn't want to say how much longer because it just made me feel so old just to say it. But I I'll say this I think it was 19, let's let's see, 1998, probably 99 is when I started volunteering. Uh at I was at Willow Creek Community Church at the time, uh working college ministry, but I had had some experience with young kids prior to that. And I just I missed having that interaction with them. So I called up Promised Land and said, Hey, I want to volunteer. And I started as a volunteer with four and five-year-olds. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

So is that still your favorite age group?

SPEAKER_02 1:31

I love that you asked that because since that time, so I did small group for age four or five. I was a K1 uh teacher, I was a grade four, five teacher. I've been in the second and third grade room as well. And to tell you the truth, and I say this honestly, I love every single one of them. And every one of those different age groups has a different benefit to it. But if I could go back and do any one of them again, age four or five.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Really?

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yes, I love that age. They're just so, I don't know, so sweet, so moldable. I mean, they're all moldable, but there's just that my heart is with those little preschoolers.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

See, that used to be my favorite, and I was always like, give me the preschoolers, not the preteens. And then the first summer that I was a camp counselor, they gave me the preteen girls, and I'm like, oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I couldn't get the cute ones.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Um, and from then on, preteens are my favorite, and especially preteen boys, which some people think is the hardest age group. And I'm like, they're so fun. I get to mess with them, and that's like the bonding is me picking on them.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

It's funny you mentioned that because uh when I was in the I was a small group leader with eight, uh, with age four or five, being a young, just post-college male, they really wanted me to go to the to grade four or five. Um, and I was like, no way, no way. They're I and I had never worked for that age. Exactly. They're right, they're punks, they're all a bunch of punks. Um eventually, after years, I ended up in that room. And and I'll say this, I was so wrong about them. And I loved grade four or five. They're still what's wonderful about them is they're still kids, um, but they're they're smart though. And you can have some really intelligent conversations with them, um, but they still want to be your friend, and they really they're not as much of a punk as I thought they would be. So I I love that room, but I would still go back to the age four five kids because that's that's just my heart. That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

I love it, I love it. Okay, so you've been doing children's ministry for a long time, all of the different things, um, but especially what we're teaching the things, because that's you know, kind of the purpose we want to see boys and girls become Christians to walk with Christ to grow in their faith. Um, in the book, you tell the story of Sarah. Um a wow story. I feel like that was, I'm gonna guess that that was one of your defining stories as a ministry leader, like the thing that was that your aha. And you springboard with like what we should be teaching. So obviously, we're not giving the book away because we want them to go read the book, but like, what should we be teaching to where we don't have a child like Sarah who gets lost for a long time when that's you know what we want to avoid that that getting lost, we want them to deeply ground in the faith. So give us some tips. What should we be teaching to help a child have this deep and rooted faith?

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah, right. And and and the first thing I would start with is when when you talk about what should we be teaching, um, I don't think it's so much about a specific thing, um, like a specific story or a specific value or a specific anything. It's really about kind of backing up and taking that 30,000-foot view of what are you doing in your ministry? And are you hitting all of the um the different what I would call ingredients that you need to give a child so that when they grow up and they leave high school, that they are not spiritually malnourished, which is what's happening so much today. Um, and we know a lot of people have heard this statistic. You know, George Barna um has done the study, LifeWay has done the study, there are other groups too who have done the study, and they all find about the same thing, which is about two-thirds of youth when they leave high school are gone. They just they they're out of the church, they leave the faith, and for the most part, we have lost them. And so you have to you have to look back and ask yourself the question, what is happening? Where are we going wrong? And it's easy to point to the youth ministry and say, well, it's your you guys were the last ones to have your fingers, have your hands on them. Um, so something's going wrong in youth ministry, but that's that's not the case. Um, it's not just their responsibility, it's our responsibility too, as children's pastors. And so what um I hypothesize in the book is that the the reason that this is happening is because um they're leaving us spiritually malnourished. Um they're either getting, on one hand, um they're good, they're getting uh all candy, you know, they're just getting snacks, they're getting sort of that equivalent of spiritual junk food while they're in children's ministry. It's like all it's all fun and games, which of course we want to utilize fun in children's ministry, but it's lots of fun and games, um, but not a whole lot of biblical depth. That it's either that or they're getting too much of one ingredient and not the others. And the three ingredients that I talk about in feeding faith um is the is what we call the eat strategy, E-A-T, education, application, and transformation. Um, and all three of those are so important. In the book, I talk about kind of the the three-legged stool. And um, each one of those legs are one of those, education, application, and transformation. And if you take out any one of those, when any sort of weight is put on that stool, the whole thing collapses. Um, same thing with kids. If you give them two of those things, but not the third one, when they get out uh into the real world and life starts to press down on them, they will break. Their faith will collapse if they don't have all three of those things. And so that's what I think is the most important uh thing that we can do and that we can teach them is that we can give them that biblical education, uh, which we're all strive, we all understand that, we're all striving to do that. But not only that, but that we give them a healthy dose of personal application as well. We help them figure out now that we know this about the Bible, what does that mean for me? How can I live that out? How can I walk in my faith? But not just stopping there, also giving them that spiritual transformation component, helping them figure out what does it mean to actually have an active relationship with the living God, with the living savior. Um, and I find that it's that third one that most people struggle with. Um, yeah, that's the one that most people struggle with.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah, it's harder, especially when you're dealing with like ages. I think um it actually happened last night. So my daughter is eight, and she's always struggled with, well, how do I hear God? Like I don't I don't hear him say words. And that's like, how do you teach that to a young kid who's still in that literal concrete phase of brain development? And they're like, But I don't hear words, mom, or Miss Amber. And last night it was that proud mommy moment, and she she she had done something that she didn't want to tell me about, and she came and she told me about it. And you know, she's a crier, so she's crying, and I was very proud because she told me, and she came back, I got her calmed down, and she came back and she's like, Mommy, does God talk to kids? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. She's like, I think God was talking to me and told me that I needed to tell you. I'm like, that's the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Yes, it's like, how do you how do you teach it's hard, it's hard to teach that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

It is hard.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

We have to, we have to try.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Well, and that's uh that's one of the things that I think a lot of children's pastors they make the mistake of thinking that kids don't have the ability to do some of these things, they don't have the ability to to listen to God, to hear his voice, to commune with him. And not only would I say is that not true, but in a way, I think they do it better than we do because they they aren't quite so jaded, they're not so hardened, um, they they have bigger faith than we do. And so if you just give them the opportunity, you teach them how to listen, how to how to talk with God, um, they have the ability to do it. I even talk about in the book, I talk about um in Go Curriculum, there is that exercise that we did for the story of young Samuel. Um, because in the story of young Samuel Samuel, uh Samuel is hearing God call to him, but he thinks that it's his uncle Eli. And so he keeps going to Eli saying, you know, I'm here, what did you want? And Eli says, not me, go back to bed. And finally, Eli realizes what's going on and says, Hey, the next time you hear that voice, say, speak, Lord, I'm listening. And so, as an exercise in that lesson, we actually at the end have the kids lay down, close their eyes, you know, bring the lights down just a little bit. And then they all silently say a prayer in their head. They just say, Speak, Lord, I'm listening. And then you just give them 30 or 60 seconds, a very age-appropriate amount of time. And after that, they open their eyes up and you say, Hey, if you don't feel like you heard anything from God, that's okay. Just keep on trying and keep on listening for his voice. But if you did hear something, I want you to come up to this white piece of butcher block paper and I want you to write down what you heard. When I saw what kids had written down, it was beautiful. It was amazing that the the words of encouragement and the words of conviction that they were hearing from God. And it's it's just amazing what they can do when you give them that opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

It's also that training. Um, you know, I've got a lot of young kids right now. So my young kids in class, they're not they're not quite there, especially most of them aren't saved yet because they're very young. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Um but what age, by the way, what age do you work for?

SPEAKER_03 11:43

So I am special situation. I've got my two-year-old niece in there with me with you know, four and up, but I have a bulk of fours, fives, um, and six. Like that's and I'm small church, so I don't have a ton. But you know, at four, when the goal, quite frankly, sometimes is just for them to sit quietly. Yeah. Um, they're not, they're not necessarily and I'm not negating that they can't, you know, but but often they're not they're not hearing from God then. Um they're probably thinking about whatever they were thinking about, but it's that it's that habit. It's that this is what we do. We do stop and we do listen and we do go to him. And it's creating good habits of faith that are necessary, and we have to do that as ministry leaders, not just making church so fun so that they they come.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Right. Well, what I find with preschoolers too is that, you know, because they're such concrete thinkers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Um so they're listening for that audible voice, like they would hear.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Exactly. Yeah. And like, I'm not hearing anything, which that's totally understandable at their age. Um, but I think one of the things you can really work with them at that age on is just speaking to God. And one of the things I think is really helpful is to ask them a question like, um, if Jesus were here right now, if God were here right now, what would you want to tell him? Or what would you say to Jesus about this or about that? Have them tell you what that answer is because you are a physical person. They and they can easily tell you what the answer is. And then to turn it and say, Well, you know what? You can quietly say that same thing in your head to Jesus, and you know what? He hears you. You know, so for them to even practice saying the thing to a real person before saying it to God um is is a really effective way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Yeah, I love it. Okay, so curiosity, which sad comment, um, because like I told you before, when I'm reading children's ministry books, I'm reading to kind of kind of judge the the writing and the author. And I give you mad props that this was not just a sales pitch for Go Curriculum. Um, so good job.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

But which came first? This whole EAT acronym, or did you realize that that's how you built Go Curriculum? And then you're like, oh, this is a thing. Which was first?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Great question. It was the curriculum first. The EAT strategy has been in there the entire time. I just couldn't have articulated it until 10 years in. And I'll tell you what happened. Um, we we had started a new project. We were taking the church curriculum and we were adapting it for homeschool. And we were having a conversation about how do we sort of how do we package this, how do we market this to a totally different audience? Um, because I the the way that we were marketing it to the churches, uh, I just didn't think applied that much to the homeschool audience. And so we all sat down as a team and we just started pulling out like, so so what are we doing with this curriculum? What's really at the heart of it? And so, you know, one at a time we're like, oh, education. So that's that's a big piece of what we're doing. Um, application, that's a big piece. Transformation, that's a piece. We had this big whiteboard and we're writing down all of these words, and I'm looking at it, and I'm like, okay, I'm always looking for some sort of alliteration or anagram or something like that. I'm like, hey, that spells eat. And that was it. It was the eat strategy. So we started to develop that for the homeschool curriculum. Once we got finished sort of packaging that up, I was like, this is too good. Like this, we need to start talking about this for the church curriculum too, because it was already there. Um, and so that was sort of the um, that was the start of the book, Feeding Faith. You know, you can see how you get from the eat strategy. I got it when I was reading. Yeah, yeah. Right, exactly. All of that. So um, yeah, that that has been in the curriculum since day one. And I I just couldn't have articulated uh articulated it that way.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

I love it. So that was your heartbeat that you were writing the curriculum because you're like, this is what needs to happen to see kids grow up in your faith. Yeah, yeah. You realize what you did. Love it, love it, love it. Okay, page 92. Um, I'm a writer in books. Do you write in books?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Oh, yes. I'm an underliner, I'm a highlighter, I'm a writer.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Yes, same. Okay. I loved on page 92, you said a good curriculum is gospel driven and shows kids who Jesus is, why they need him, and how to trust him with their whole lives. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, so the piece in this, obviously, like we could talk, you and I could have a great conversation on like what we need to teach because there are so many curriculum out there that are not doing it well.

unknown 16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Biblical literacy, teaching the narrative, all those things. Give them depth, not fun games, yes. But this application part.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Which by the way, I'm sorry to interject. I saw you posted today, I think it was, or maybe it was yesterday, something about um not just playing games for the sake of playing games, yes, uh, having having a purpose to them, a reason to them. And I talk about that in the book. I'm like, oh my goodness, we are totally on the same page with that.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yeah. Like we reading through yours, it's a very, very similar mindset. Um, I talk though, that's one of my like one of my things is like what we're teaching, and we're not wasting a time because we've got this limited amount of time. And why on earth are we wasting it with dodgeball and snack time? I'm also team know snack time.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Uh same, same here. Um like plus when it comes to the games, there are so many games that you could play. You can tie it to the lesson. Ties to the lesson, right? Exactly. So why would you waste that time with a game for the sake of a game when it could be part of the lesson?

SPEAKER_03 17:20

It it irks me so bad um when I see this in curriculum, and I've heard curriculum writers and they're like, Well, we don't have the time to tie every game to the lesson.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

And I'm like, I don't think what they don't have, they don't have the imagination or the creativity to figure out a game that helps teach the point of the lesson.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

The right line of thinking because again, I'm not tag is fun. Yes. Do you know how many ways I can tie tag to the Bible?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Right. Yeah, well, plus sometimes too, that and this is what I would tell a young curriculum writer too, is you don't start with the game and then try to come up with the lesson to the game. You're you're you're going at it backwards. That's the tail wagging the dog. You start with the message that you want to give to the kids, you start with the lesson, and then you ask yourself, how could we create a game that helps to teach that? So you kind of have to reverse engineer the game.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Because we can make anything fun. Literally, I bought my suitcase died on the way back from CPC, like broke twice as I'm trying to go home. And so I'm pushing my suitcase, which has another suitcase strapped to it with no handle now. That was great fun through the Orlando Airport. Um I got a new suitcase, and my daughter's like, can have the box. And she had a blast with the box. We can make anything fun for children. They are kids.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

We uh the last church that I was at, we had it was had to have been a hundred plus um old, like gallon or maybe two gallon ice cream buckets that they were just empty. We got them from a recycling store. That was the most popular game in the second and third grade room. Just having these empty buckets that they would stack up into a big wall and then go running through them and knocking them down and then stacking them back up all day, every day. That's all they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yep, yeah. Cups, the cardboard blocks. We had the like the preschool like cardboard ones that look like bricks, but then I love because you know how many walls that there are in the Bible or things that need to be built. So we would use them to act them out, and yes, yes, all the things. So, yes, we are very much so you and I have a very similar um philosophy for what we're teaching, right? Um, okay, so this this stool, this three things that we need to do. How do we make sure that we are getting the application part of it right? So, like maybe what questions could a leader ask themselves when they're assessing their curriculum, which please go and assess your curriculum always, always, are you teaching the Bible? Is there fun for the sake of fun? There shouldn't be. How what could they ask themselves to see? Okay, am I I've got the education part, I'm teaching them the truths of God's word, I'm teaching the narrative, but am I giving them application time?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Yeah. Um, the application part is so important. Um, and but what I see when people are making a mistake with application, it goes in one of two directions. Um, either one, it's not there, they're they're just not doing it. And believe it or not, there are curriculum that do that on purpose. There it's it's a philosophy that um we don't want to um speak for the Holy Spirit. And I I can appreciate the the carefulness that they take with this. But it's that idea of um, well, we're gonna tell you what the Bible story is, we're gonna tell you what God says in Scripture, and then it's up to Him to lead the kids in what they should do with it. And certainly there is, there's got to be room for that, but that doesn't mean that we can't also say, hey, here are some ways that you can take what God has taught us and put them into action. In fact, when you look in scripture, it is filled with application. Um, the book of James in particular, just tons and tons of specific ways to take the word of God and actually put it into action. So either A, um, they're not doing application at all, or if you swing that pendulum in the other direction, application is sitting in the driver's seat and it's driving the entire lesson. And and scripture is in the passenger seat, and it's just there to help support whatever um they want to teach them. And so this is what happens when you get into more uh virtues based and character based type curriculum. You're you say, Um, well, we want to teach the kids about being brave, so let's go to scripture and find um four or five stories that that teach that value. And what you end up doing uh when you do that is that you take Bible story that maybe didn't necessarily it's that's not its strongest message, and you you bend it um to and you shape it so that it fits what you want it to say instead of what it just naturally wants to say. So it's important to have the application piece, but don't let it drive the lesson. It's a response to what we learn about God in scripture. So the first thing that we do is we read the story and say, what does this story teach us about the character and nature of God? And once you understand that piece, then the application follows, and and that answers the question. So now that we know that about God, how should we respond? That's the proper place for application to be.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Otherwise, you get into that veggie tails mentality. Be brave like David.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Yes, right. Be brave like David, you know, and obedient like Noah. Like Noah, right? Be faithful like Abraham. And and and that's not to say that there is never a place for that. Um there that is okay at times in small quantities, but if you're giving a regular steady diet of that, then you're then you're not teaching scripture the way that it was intended to be taught.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Yeah, yeah. Good stuff, good stuff. Yeah, it's almost it's almost like you've served in children's ministry for almost like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Almost like it's been more than 25 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

So I love, and that that is probably one of the biggest compliments that that I can give to your book, um, is that you've lived it and it shows. And I think personally that those are the books that are strongest and are going to be the most helpful for people because anybody can regurgitate the same stuff that's out in the world. Um, but it's someone who's lived it who has messed up. I I guarantee you you've got some great flop stories, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Oh my goodness, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

25 years.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah. I mean, especially in my early years of ministry, you know, you just think you have it all together. You think you're so smart.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Uh, you do, you do things, and you're like, oh, that was not, that was a bad idea.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

I look back at so I started at 15 um at my church. I was the like official title and everything, and I was writing the lessons because in small town Kentucky, I didn't know that there were resources out there. And you know, back in the this is like the 2000s, there weren't as many resources. Um, and I was writing the lessons, distributing to volunteers to teach. And I I found some, I don't know, like 15 years ago or something. I found some of those old lessons, and I went back and like, wow, like yes, wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yeah. Oh, I here here's a a horror story of my own uh poor judgment. It was like in the I I was the large group leader in the fourth and fifth grade room, and we taught this lesson and a very well-meaning um object lesson. We had given all the kids, it was like a sort of like a rubber band uh wristband. And I think we were talking something about, you know, uh speaking words of kindness. Um and so as an application, we told them, like, hey, throughout the the week, um wear this wristband. And every time you say something unkind, or maybe even think something unkind, you know, take the wristband, yeah, and snap it. Um, snap it on your wrist as kind of like this little, you know, just to give this little shot shock of pain. And I look back at that, I'm like, oh some self-harm encouragement. Yeah, right. Some self-flagellation and like, no, no, no, no. Okay, but you know, live and learn.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Um that's the next book, right? All the things not so different.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

All the dumb things that I did that you should not, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Listen, that's how people learn. My dad always says a smart man learns from his mistakes, and even smarter man learns from somebody else's. So that book's gonna be immensely helpful.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Okay, before the book, um before you tell us a little bit more about the book and where to buy it, tell us about your curriculum because it is the epitome of all of the things, this three-p pronged approach. Um, tell us about Go curriculum, just kind of in a nutshell, why should people go check it out?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, in a sentence, Go is the chronological curriculum that helps kids move from knowing to growing. And that knowing to growing, that's really what that book, Feeding Faith, is about how to get beyond just teaching Bible stories to helping kids uh become true followers of Jesus. And that's what the curriculum is built to do. Um, we take biblical education very seriously, and we do it in a way uh that is age appropriate and acknowledges that these are kids, they have energy, they need to move. And so that's why we make all of the Bible storytelling interactive. Um, every four to five weeks, there is a different interactive storytelling method. Uh, and when I say interactive, I don't just mean for two or three kids in the room. I mean the entire room is involved in the storytelling. Um, and so we take biblical education very seriously. We go really deep with kids when it comes to scripture. But there's also that application piece. That application piece is very important to us as well that comes at the end. You know, we we introduce application in a broad way at the end of large group, but then during small group time, they get to go and make that application very practical. They get to really talk about what that looks like in their context, in their lives, uh, through discussion, but that discussion is always based going back to what we were talking about with games and activities. There is always a game or activity that they're playing in small group that sets up the conversation about application. So that's really big too. But then lastly, um, there is a healthy dose of transformation uh in that curriculum. Opportunities for children to respond to what they just heard uh through prayer, through journaling, through art, um, or through Bible reading. Um, we have we have every so often in a lesson, we'll have a special um response moment that they all take part in. And it is a very gospel-focused curriculum, and not just gospel-focused, but we also teach children how and give them opportunities to respond to the gospel. Okay, now that you know that this is true, the gospel is true, what do you do with that? And we give them opportunities, we teach them how to actually become a follower of Jesus. Um, and that's one of the things, and I talk about this in the book, but I think this is so important for children's pastors to really understand. Um, the best analogy I can come up with it, come up for it is you know how it is when you walk into a big box store, um, that Walmart or Home Depot, and you're looking for something in this giant store, you have no idea where it is. So you find somebody at the front of the store and you say, Hey, could you help me? Yeah, I'm hey, I'm looking for a doodad. Can you help me find the doodads? And they say, they they point to the back of the store and they say, Yeah, it's way back in that corner. Um, go to you know, that aisle back there, go all the way down on the left hand side, up towards the top of the shelf. You're gonna see a such and such. And then you get back there and you're like, I don't see this thing anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

And before you know it, it's indicative of the Kentucky Walmart workers because they have no clue.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Same thing with the St. Louis ones and the Home Depot, too. I love it when instead of the person pointing me towards where I need to go, they say, Let me walk you to it. And they walk you all the way back there and they say, Here it is, right here. I think too often when it comes to following Jesus, we are the workers at the front of the store, pointing them towards the back. When what we should be doing is walking them all the way to the feet of Jesus, making the introduction, and then stepping out of the way and let the Holy Spirit do what he's going to do at that point. But I think too often we stand at the front of the store and say, it's up to the Holy Spirit. It's up to the Holy Spirit to help the children. Now that I've I've stuffed them full of the Bible and I gave them some application, now it's up to God to do something with that. But I think we can walk them even a little bit farther. We can walk them all the way to the feet of Jesus. And so in the curriculum, we do that four times a year. Um, very specifically, we have not only the gospel presentation, but we have an opportunity for them to respond. And in the lessons, we coach the leaders on exactly how to walk through that whole process.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

That's great. Yeah, because you never know. I I've always said I think it's the hardest for a church kid to become a Christian because it there's action steps. You know, they've grown up probably being in church and loving God their whole life, but there's something they have to do. And if we aren't clear with issuing that, here's what you need to do.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

And we don't know when God's working on their hearts.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Um that's the case for a lot of kids in church. It's sort of like they're living out their parents' faith. Um, and they didn't they don't know that being a Christian is a choice because guess what? They never had a choice in it. They always went to church because they had to. But at some point that faith has to become their own. And so that's one of the things that things that we're big on in the curriculum is teaching them how to make their faith their own.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Love it. I'm even like cautious with my language that I use. I never, I never like we as Christian, well, you're not a Christian yet. And that's such an awkward conversation when they're like, I'm not a Christian yet. I'm like, no, you're not.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing we do too. Um, even when we talk about saying the prayer to become a Christian, it's a very popular thing, and I can understand why with young children to um do a repeat after me kind of a prayer. I'm going to say a thing, and then you just say this back to Jesus. Um, but then it it becomes impersonal. That's not their words. Um, and so one of the things that we do is we uh we do the ABC prayer, admit, believe, and choose. But I really coach people um don't do don't do a um a call and response. Like prompt the kids in the prayer, okay, now take a moment and I want you to talk to Jesus quietly in your heads and and admit that you have sinned to him and tell him about your sins. And then just pause and be very quiet and give the kids an opportunity to do that. And then after a moment, say, okay, now I want you to talk to Jesus and tell him, I want you to talk to God and tell him you believe that Jesus died for your sins. And then you let them do that. So I agree with you. I think there's a way that you can do it to really uh make it clear for them and help them to actually make it their own.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Love it. Love it. Okay, so if you're not sold yet, um, I don't know what to tell y'all. Go check out GoCurriculum.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Yes, please do.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

Um, so now the book.

unknown 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Feeding Faith, it's like a month old, not even quite a month old. Yeah. Um where do we find it? Why do we need to buy it?

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Um where do you find it? You can find it on Amazon. Just search for Feeding Faith uh or Feeding Faith by David Rodney.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

And it'll also be in show notes.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Yeah, yeah, you'll you'll find it easily. If there's a lot of churches that want to do this as like a book study with their whole church, which by the way, there is uh multiple times in the book, there's a QR code where you can get a free study guide and an assessment test, a test that will help you kind of assess where are we at with this eat strategy, what are what's our weak point, what are what are our strengths. That's all in the book too. Um, so make sure, yep, right there. Um make sure that you get that. But uh there are churches that want to do it as a as a group study. So we sell the books in bulk, um uh in uh tens, I think 10, 25, 50, something like that. Um and you can get it for a discounted price at gocurriculum.com. Just go to the store and you'll see Feeding Faith in the store there.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Which is also where they would go to find out about the curriculum, gocurriculum.com.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Yes, right. You'll find the curriculum there too. Um, why would you get the book? Well, first of all, um I almost died this past summer. Uh like for real, almost died.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

I remember watching that like in action in social media, and I'm like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

I know, yeah. Uh the short story is I I well, I was with my family. We were doing a very intense backcountry trek uh in Peru in the uh a very remote corner of the Andes Mountains, uh, and I fell off of a cliff. Uh and so if you want to find out Find out if David lives or dies. Do you did I did I live? Did I die? I'm not gonna tell you. Uh, but you can find out in the book. You can find out uh what happened, and you can tell you can hear about the rescue. Um, and I make a connection between that and what's happening in children's ministry uh today. So I try I used, Amber, I told you even before you hit record, I tried to write the book that I wanted to read. Um, and so I just I filled it with stories, illustrations, humor.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Your voice very much so comes out in it, which I appreciate in a book.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I I I I write in a very um spoken tone. I write the way that I speak. And so I tried to make it a very personal book, and I think that you'll find that as you read it. Um, and again, I hope I hope that people, when they read it, they find it tremendously helpful in figuring out how to feed their children um spiritually so that they are not hungry when they walk away from your ministry.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Love it. Okay, friends, go to gocurriculum.com, go get your copy of Feeding Faith from Amazon. Um, follow David online, go check out what he has because he knows what he's talking about. He has lived it in the trenches, he's still alive. Spoiler, still here to make more. David, thank you so much for for not just making awesome stuff that we can use that can help ministry leaders, but just for your heart for this generation of kids and just the kingdom work that you're doing. So thank you for what you do.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah, thank you, Amber.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

All right, kidmen friends, go purchase your book, check out their curriculum, and remember what you do matters.