Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Ellen Perez Interview: Her Story, Lefty Advice, How to Slide, The Doubles Calendar, & More

• Will Boucek • Episode 198

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0:00 | 55:02

Ellen Perez is world number 11 on the WTA Doubles Tour, with seven career titles. In this interview, Ellen shares her tennis journey, WTA doubles serve, return, volley, groundstroke, rankings, and more.

Here are a few topics we dive into:

  • Learn the benefits of returning with backhands in the middle, which Ellen and her partner, Nicole Melichar-Martinez, do.
  • Racquet customization.
  • Ellen explains how she got her athletic prowess.
  • Advice for left-handed players.
  • Known for her speed and epic slides, Ellen explains the keys to a good slide on any surface.
  • How she made the transition from singles to nearly full-time doubles.
  • College tennis at the University of Georgia.
  • Your questions from Twitter & Instagram including mixed doubles, her favorite potato style, the player's council, and more.

At the end, Ellen shares what she would change to grow doubles. Whether you're a doubles fan or just curious about the world of professional doubles, this episode offers a comprehensive glimpse into the life and strategies of one of the best in the world.

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Getting to Know Ellen Perez

Speaker 1

You're about to hear my interview with Ellen Perez.

Speaker 1

Ellen is the number 11 ranked doubles player on the WTA Tour. She has seven career WTA doubles titles and is one of the best players on tour over the last several seasons. And in this conversation, you're going to hear some strategy from Ellen, but you're also really going to get to know Ellen. We talk about her story. We talk about her story. We talk about her favorite tournament. We discuss advice for lefties she's a left-handed player. We talk about where she got her athleticism from. She's certainly one of the most athletic players on tour. We discuss how to slide on the tennis court, which she is so good at. And then we also talk about why she and her partner, nicole Melicar Martinez, return with backhands in the middle, which is a little bit unusual, especially for the pro tour. And then after that, I get to a lot of your questions from Twitter and Instagram, including who Ellen thinks has the best serve, return volleys and ground strokes on the Women's Doubles Tour.

Speaker 1

We talk about mixed doubles a bit. We talk about the Players Council, where Ellen is going to be serving for the first time next season. We discuss the 2025 calendar. We discuss the 2025 calendar these longer 1000 events that are coming. We also talk about college tennis and a few more things as well, so I think you're going to really get to know Ellen here. Like I said, she's a really fun personality. She's a great follow on Twitter as well, so I recommend that you follow her there. I'll link to everything in the show notes for you, including her social accounts, so that you can follow her there, but I hope you enjoy this conversation. So, without further delay, here is Ellen Perez. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have world number 10, ellen Perez on. Ellen welcome.

Speaker 2

Thanks, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1

So we are setting a record for the earliest I've ever recorded a podcast and, I think, the latest I've ever had a guest on, because you're in Melbourne, where it's 10 pm, and I am in Fort Worth, texas, where it is 7 am. So if I sound like I just woke up to the listeners, it's because I did.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'm, definitely I'm the selfish one here. I wasn't willing to do another morning.

Speaker 1

So you're a more of a night person, not a morning person, I guess.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm a night owl, that's for sure more of a night person, not a morning person, I guess. Yeah, I'm a night owl, that's for sure. Okay, I kind of am too, but today we made an exception. So I wanted to start with a question that I asked Storm when I had her on the podcast earlier this year about fighting your nation's wildlife. So I asked her if you or Dasha would win in a fight against your nation's wildlife. It was a question from Instagram, I believe, and she chose you. Why do you think she chose you over Dasha?

Speaker 2

Because she's smart. That's first and foremost. No, I definitely think I have that little bit more fight in me than Dasher. I don't know I don't know if Storm's seen it, but I actually my dad was a kickboxing champion, um, so he actually taught me how to box a little bit when I was younger, so I do feel like I have some boxing form, um. But yeah, definitely I'm probably the more aggressive type, more more loud vocal, so I think she would sense that I'm going to get the job done more than Dasha. So that's why I think she might have voted for me. I don't know.

Speaker 1

Who would win between them two against your nation's wildlife?

Speaker 2

I'm honestly going to have to back Storm as well. I think Storm's feisty when it matters. I think Storm's also very tactical. She would think it through. She'd find a way to find their weakness. I think Dash is too off with the fairies a little bit. She might hate me for saying that, but she might get distracted by the wind. Honestly, dash is another type of person. I'm going to give the love back to Storm.

Speaker 1

That's so funny. The lefties are sticking together there, that's it Okay. So tell us your tennis story. You're in Melbourne now, but how did you get started with tennis? I read something on Wikipedia where you started with a totem tennis pole, which I don't know if that's true or not, but I also didn't even know what that was until I saw a picture of it. But tell us your kind of tennis story.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think I was around three years old or so maybe when my parents gifted me that for Christmas a totem tennis pole, and it's kind of like a pole that you stick into the grass and it has a long string and a tennis ball connected to the bottom and you kind of hit with like a plastic bat and it just goes around. It's kind of like the similar is it tetherball? In the.

Speaker 1

US. Yeah, tetherball is a thing in the US and you hit it with your hand.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing but with a racket. And I guess my parents thought I had really good hand-eye coordination. So from early they kind of saw potential. And my dad also loved tennis. He would go play kind of more club level locally and I guess he really wanted me to get involved. So when I was like six or seven I think closer to seven, he got me down to the local courts and kind of from there it progressed into some lessons and you know, honestly, I never loved tennis there. It progressed into some lessons and you know, honestly, I never loved tennis. He used to have to bribe me to go and play tennis with, well, as you would say, candy for me lollies. But yeah, no, I mean I enjoyed it, but part of me loved soccer, football way more. So yeah, that was an interesting kind of thing when I was growing up.

Speaker 1

At what point did you shift towards tennis and away from soccer and how did that decision? I don't know how'd you go about making that decision.

Speaker 2

I think over time I progressively chose tennis and lessened the soccer. I was no longer going to training once or twice a week, I was just going to the games on Sunday and just playing, just because tennis took priority and I had practice and I couldn't keep up with it all and sometimes tournaments would get in the way. But I would say around 14 or 15, I think, is when I really gave it up and wasn't able to keep playing it anymore. Definitely by 16, I was no longer playing soccer. But yeah, that's kind of the point where I had to decide.

Speaker 2

And I think at that point I remember my dad kind of saying like you know, there's more potential in women's sport and tennis. You should kind of follow that. And I wanted to, you know, make him happy and obviously saw potential myself. Like I did, obviously feel like I played a good level and as I dropped away to soccer I felt like girls were catching up and something with me is I like to be the best at what I do and I didn't like the fact that I was kind of falling behind in a sense in soccer. So yeah, it just made sense to continue on with the tennis.

Speaker 1

Okay, and then you go and play at Georgia for three years, right? Yeah. Okay, talk about your time there and then kind of your transition into the pros.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so honestly, mixed reviews on college. I always would recommend going. I think I had a very enjoyable first two years, you know, went in as a freshman, played number two, had an amazing team, had a lot of injuries during college.

Balancing Singles and Doubles on Tour

Speaker 2

um, it was maybe my reason I went to college was you know to have that option as a backup, um have a degree that you can always fall back on, kind of. At the time I needed some surgeries when I went so they were able to provide that kind of for free and the full you know the full deal. So it made a lot of sense to go um. But yeah, college is, whatever you make it, you know you've got coaches who may be trying to push girls to play injured. You know you got to find those elements of maybe you don't get along with everyone on the team and stuff like that. But I thoroughly enjoyed the competition side of things. I thoroughly enjoyed, you know, traveling with a team and the whole college aspect. You know sports in America is so much different to anywhere else in the world. I feel like they make it um so much bigger than it is at times and I love a reason to party, I love a reason to fire up and, you know, get behind something. So I really enjoyed college and I thought it was a great stepping stone for me. I definitely don't think it held me back in any aspect.

Speaker 2

Um, there was a big moment, kind of after my second, my sophomore year, where I was umming and ahhing, if I go pro or if I stay one more year, and at that time I had made main draw of US Open and I don't know. I felt this sense of unfinished business at the college and kind of didn't want to let them down and yeah, it was just kind of that awkward time to make that decision. So I decided to stay a third year and for me that's maybe the one thing I kind of was like do I regret it, do I not? Um, but I knew after kind of three years I was ready to go pro and um transition to the pro tournaments um, so then you, you transitioned to pro.

Speaker 1

You played singles for a long time and doubles, and then at a certain point your doubles ranking starts to kind of separate from your singles ranking. Talk a little bit about that kind of decision, and I guess you call it a switch. I know you still play singles every now and then, so I don't know if you can say you've like given up on it or not, but talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean I've always wanted to be a singles player and I think for a good chunk of time from 2018 to 2022, I was able to maintain my ranking between my career high of 162 to about 240. I was always in that bubble kind of making qualifying of Grand Slams and it came kind of 2022 Wimbledon where I was losing. I qualified for Wimbledon the year before, so I was losing a lot of points and I had won a 60k a few years before that and with all the COVID situation there were still points that were hanging on. So kind of in one week I lost 80 points and at that point, you know, 230 in the world, I think I dropped to 350. And I just started playing with Nicole and we had a pretty big schedule of Toronto, cincy, us Open, so a lot of big tournaments where I wasn't going to get in singles and you know, I missed a lot of weeks of playing singles and dropped back even more, I think, into the 400s.

Speaker 2

And then I've got this dilemma of how do I play both and obviously I'm a very committed person and very loyal and when I'd started something with Nicole I was ready to finish it and kind of keep going, and I really love doubles and it's kind of the first thing that comes naturally to me. And it's kind of the first thing that comes naturally to me and it's, you know what gave me the life on tour. It's kind of, when I lose, it's the thing that keeps me in the tournament, it's the thing that keeps me going and keeps me really positive about you know my tennis and me, so that was a huge part of me, but I definitely still wanted to be a singles player. So I was trying to balance both and I just found it was kind of too hard. Um, you know, there there's tournaments you have to, you're losing points but you're not playing those weeks playing doubles. And then there's weeks where you're thinking, do you skip a big event? And you know, skip a paycheck? Where you're getting minimum four or 5,000 to go make $400.

Speaker 2

And at some point I couldn't warrant it. I was kind of like I have to go back and hustle in these, you know, remote locations against girls who are willing to die for this, um, who are equally as good. And you know these girls at these tournaments there's no reason why they're not top 200 level. They actually are. It's just you're all fighting for the same thing and you come across one of them in an early draw and it's, it's really tough and it wasn't a matter of if I thought my level was there.

Speaker 2

I really do believe I'm still a top 200 singles player. I just, you know, to go back and work hard to get it back to that. It's a grind and my body's not, you know, able to hold up at times. And yeah, ultimately I just thought better quality of life and I enjoy it and kind of just made sense to just keep going with the doubles and I'm trying to keep signing for singles. But honestly, this year I haven't got in anywhere. It's been super unfortunate and you know I play practice. That's still against some of these girls and honestly, I haven't lost the practice set this year. I was laughing about it. I think I've played seven top hundred girls this year in practice and I'm seven. No, oh oh my gosh so it's a shame.

Speaker 2

But yeah, you know, at times I also as much as I think, oh, I could still do it. I'm you know, when pressure and money and points are on the line, it's very different to practice. It's a yeah. If I could just go be thrown into the top hundred, I'd come back in a heartbeat. But yeah it's a lot more than that to to get it back.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, it's a lot more than that to get it back. Yeah, it's a tough sport. I wanted to ask about your. You're known for being one of the most athletic players on tour. You're always able to like run balls down and slide, and sometimes you end up on the ground. Where did you get your athleticism? Is that from one of your parents or both of your parents, or is it something you developed as a child?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I've always been pretty athletic. I think my mom was a softball player for australia and my dad was a australian kickboxing champion, so we've definitely had that sporting background. Um, I don't know, maybe gene's just very blessed. I've always kind of everyone talks about my calves and it's something that's you know, know, naturally always been there. I don't have to work at it and I think that kind of fast twitch, most sports came naturally to me. I mean, you know, when I was young I made the Australian cricket team, I made the soccer team, I was decent at cross country and even athletic events, even for, like state level. Most things I can pick up gymnastics, singing absolutely not. But other than that I give myself a pretty fair shot at being okay. And yeah, I don't know, I think it's maybe even playing soccer when I was young. You know, that's a pretty dynamic, quick kind of agility sport and I think maybe that footwork did help me. Who knows?

Speaker 1

who knows, yeah, what? Um, let me see here. Oh so I was going to ask about the, the keys to a good slide on the tennis court, um, and if it's different for hard clay and grass, because you are one of the best players on tour in terms of sliding. You're sliding at the u Open, at Wimbledon, at Roland Garros, all of the different surfaces.

Strategic Planning and Lefty Tips

Speaker 2

Yeah, wimbledon is the one I get a little nervous about. I can't say I've done it too much. I've definitely done it a few times, but I think the key is to fully commit. You have to be going fast. The moment you're hesitant or you're not going fast enough is when you will stick and fall over. I think it's kind of having that trust and commitment. I mean, if girls can slide on clay, I honestly believe they can all slide on hard. It's just more the fear and the lack of like, either speed or hesitation. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I've done that. Maybe it's also the slide tackles in soccer, who knows? I just I think it's's. I'm always like to put on a bit of a show and be fancy at times, maybe at my own detriment, but maybe that's the part that I, that I do it. I don't know um.

Speaker 1

So you, we mentioned at the beginning, you're in, uh, melbourne and you don't get to go home a lot and I want people to kind of understand um, that understand you and then understand kind of life on tour as a doubles player. One of the questions from Instagram, from Pushkar, was what is the longest time you've spent on the road?

Speaker 2

COVID year I did eight months, maybe even closer to eight and a half. That was tough. I look back now and I just did five months on the road and I was by the end of five months. I was like, okay, I'm seriously ready for a break. So I do wonder how I did eight months. But you know, the alternative was hotel quarantine and that wasn't really an option. I'd already done it twice so I was trying to avoid doing it three times. But yeah, it's definitely not easy.

Speaker 2

I'm pretty accustomed to four or five months on the road as a minimum. I'm almost like if it's not two months, it's not worth coming home. I kind of like to make the most out of a trip. You know flights are expensive, the jet lag, the change of time, the weather. If you're coming back, generally it's probably going to be cold in Australia in those times when it's warm everywhere else. So yeah, you've got to be a bit strategic. But at times it's also very needed just to reset. And yes, for example now, if I didn't come home after five months, you know there's another two months still left on the tour and I would have been seven or eight months in. So yeah, you've got to pick and choose your battles, but I'm definitely a player that can go pretty long without going home.

Speaker 1

How long will you be home during this stretch?

Speaker 2

So I get two and a half weeks. It's pretty lucky that I'm skipping just two tournaments, because Beijing's a late start it doesn't start till Friday, so that helped me get an extra kind of week here.

Speaker 1

Okay, nice. So what about the rest of the season? What are your plans? I know you said you're going to play Beijing you and Nick here in a good spot right now for the WTA finals. Any other plans for the rest of the season? What are your plans? I know you said you're going to play beijing you and nick here in a good spot right now, for the wta finals. Um, any other plans for the rest of the year?

Speaker 2

yeah, so obviously the asia swing. I think we go three china tournaments, one tokyo event, and then the goal is for to make saudi. I mean, we're in a good position, but we've also seen a good position slip by a couple of points in a couple years. So yeah, we'll keep going see how that ends up. And then, right after Saudi is the Billie Jean King Cup, so I've been selected for that. So that's in Malaga, in Spain.

Speaker 2

So yeah right, right after that, I'll get on the plane and this time make it in time for the match. It's always been a very tight deadline. It's lucky that we have a bye, otherwise I'm sure I'd be facing the same situation. But right after that I think, yeah, that's when the season's kind of done, which is, you know, around November 20 or so.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so that's an issue after WTA finals, typically like you're trying to get there for Billie.

Speaker 2

Jean King Cup in time. Yeah, exactly, I mean, I think finals ends on Sunday and matches start about the Tuesday and you're crossing continents and in Cancun I finished on the Monday because of the rain and everything, so I couldn't make my penny on Tuesday. So I think there shouldn't be crossover unless there's something dramatic that happens. But you know you're still working with half a day of. For some people they might have to play the next day after arriving.

Speaker 1

So it's not easy, yeah, it's. It's so crazy. They, the tournaments just don't work together at all to figure this stuff out. Okay, I wanted to ask a couple of strategy questions. So you're lefty, which I mentioned earlier, and most teams play with the lefty, righty combo with four hands in the middle, but you and Nikki don't, I think. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other teams that play with back ends in the middle. Why do you do that?

Speaker 2

I think ultimately it's because Nikki didn't want the ad. I actually think I prefer the juice more and, honestly, more and more like when I play mixed doubles, I'll take the juice and I've always been more of a juice player. It wasn't until I started playing with Nikki that I went to that ad and we even started out with me on the juice and I've always been more of a juice player. It wasn't until I started playing with Nikki that I went to that ad and we even started out with me on the juice. But yeah, ultimately I don't really mind where I play and I don't know strategically if it's better or worse. Yeah, so I think that's more why I think it was more to make sure Nikki felt comfortable. She's been more a juice player and that's where she felt she wasn't as vulnerable. So I was happy to take the ad and kind of work with what I had.

Speaker 2

And you know there's limitations and there's advantages to both sides. I think it is nice to have the forehand volley in the middle but, to be fair, I like my backhand volley. I think we both have good backhand volley where it's not detrimental. We can both cross and kind of have that flick where we put it off the court and stuff. So it's not the worst to have it. And I think obviously having a backhand in the middle of the court on return, you know, everyone's most stable shot at times, I think. So when they're trying to, you know, use the T serves, it doesn't mean that it's a problem, you know. You can kind of make. Everyone says, you know the back ends along, we make more the forehands, the more dangerous one I think. So I think, yeah, there's that element that it's not a big problem to have back ends in the middle and then most people have. You know, if you have a forehand then you've got the option of going big forehand line or cross.

Speaker 2

So yeah, we actually don't mind the dynamic um, I don't know going forward in, like my future, of doubles. If that would be always where I have to stay, I don't know.

Speaker 1

I'm very, you know, flexible sure, yeah, I spoke with um.

Speaker 1

This was probably three or four years ago at this point, but I was chatting with philip farmer, who coaches austin krychek, and Austin was playing with Steve Johnson at the time, so this had to be like three or four years ago and they were playing with backhands in the middle and I asked him why they were doing that and he said, well, we're prioritizing the return. They're both more comfortable especially Steve, I think and it sounds like this is the case for Nicky too More comfortable returning from the deuce court To the right. He's more comfortable returning from the deuce court and even if that means we're creating a slight disadvantage during the third, fourth, fifth, sixth ball of the rally, we want to prioritize returns over the rest of the rally because the return's a more important shot. So that's how he explained it and that always kind of made sense to me. Obviously, all things equal, if you're comfortable returning on both sides, then forehands in the middle is generally what I recommend, but if you're more comfortable returning on a particular side, you do want to prioritize that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I've heard arguments for both, but, like for me, having your forehands which for us is our probably best and most dangerous shots on the outside, it's more likely in rallies that it's hard to find that middle backhand against us because we take a big part of the court away. So it's a good chance in rallying.

Speaker 2

You're going to have to rally with our forehands, so, yeah, you away, so it's a good chance in rallying. You're going to have to rally with our forehands, so you can yeah, you can kind of see both sides. I think that's also kind of one of the key things that we like to have yeah, it's a good point.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and then if you are in that rally and you go line, you're going at a forehand volley down the line which is going to have a little bit more reach. Um, you'll be able to maybe get to the ball earlier so you can hedge middle a bit more reach. You'll be able to maybe get to the ball earlier so you can hedge middle a bit more, since you can reach over there. So what advice do you have for? So a lot of the listeners are club level tennis players. What advice do you have for any lefties listening to the show?

Speaker 2

advice do you have for any lefties listening to the show? Um, I mean, I think the first thing is everyone says is to use your lefty serve? Um, I think that is a good element. Not many people are used to seeing that spin Um, but yeah, I mean, everyone is also kind of expecting the lefty serve.

Speaker 2

I come up against so many players who are already halfway in the sidelines kind of trying to cover that and I think we forget that. You know, a good body serve coming from middle to at them is a great option too. So yeah, kind of confusing opponents, having all the options is a great thing, lefty, having all the options is a great thing, lefty. I mean, I think what we love is having different views of the sun. So when we're picking, I feel like we have that small advantage of being able to put me on the side where there's no sun versus sun.

Speaker 2

And yeah, I think I might be a bit biased here, but I think we have a little bit more talent or flair lefties generally, you know. So, I think, being able to be a little bit more versatile. But yeah, I don't know that I play too lefty. To be honest, I think people would say that I actually play a little more traditional and then I try to bring out my left in this. At times when needed, especially more on the grass, I'll be a little more lefty, or conscious of that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, people always use the word crafty when they're talking about a left handed player and it's yeah, it's strange to me that they're, I guess, like you said, known to be a little, have a little more flair play with, like a certain style, I don't know know more so than right-handed players, or at least, like, get a higher percentage. Um, so I want to get to some twitter and instagram questions. Uh, matt from twitter asked some of these are tennis related, some are not. Uh, what is ellen's favorite kind of potato to eat? Baked, mashed, french fried hash browned?

Speaker 2

I'm definitely a baked potato kind of girl. I love a good roast dinner with potatoes in the oven. The other day I actually had duck fat potatoes I would recommend, so I think I'll go with that. Um, I mean, all potatoes are good. I don't think I could ever cut potatoes out of my life okay, jari from twitter, uh asked.

Speaker 1

I guess he's looking for a specific player for each of these categories, so so best serve return volleys and ground strokes on the WTA doubles tour.

Speaker 2

Okay, best volleys. I think I'll have to give it to Sue Way. I think her craftiness at the net and she uses that racket like a wand. Honestly, sometimes I can't even understand how she makes the ball. She makes or creates off some of the balls that you give her. I would say, best serve on the doubles right now. Maybe Elise Mertens. I think she gets a fair bit of power, a bit of pop on that serve. I mean maybe there's some others lower ranked that I'm not even thinking about. I mean there's plenty of girls that have huge serves, so I'm just trying to think of a pretty big serve yeah um, best returns.

Speaker 2

I mean, it's hard to go past singles girls. Um, I think I'll maybe give it to ostopenko this year. I think you know she's one of those ones that, no matter if she usually makes a lot of returns, and when she does make them they're never coming slow. She's, you know, always giving it a fair whack. So I think she's when she's on, you know there's no spot on that in that box where it's safe. Um, so I'll pick her.

Player Council Involvement and Calendar Concerns

Speaker 2

And then what was the last one rallies yeah, grassroots honestly, I think I might even have to go back to Elise again. I think she's one of the most stable and consistent doubles players who will just lock into cross-court rallies, who can lob you if she's in trouble. You know what you're going to get with her. She doesn't really have too many ups and downs, she's just very solid.

Speaker 1

Yeah really have too many ups and downs. She's just very solid.

Speaker 2

Um yeah, tennis pig on twitter asked who's on your bucket list of male players to dm to be a mixed doubles partner um, you know, we've been trying for a while and it's been going back and forward to try and play max purcell um, I honestly thought he's the best doubles player there is for a while, and it's been going back and forward to try and play with Max Purcell um, I honestly thought he's the best doubles player there is for a long time.

Speaker 2

He's just never. I mean he plays every week too, but he's never really fully committed to like playing through some events and going all the way at times, so he's never been able to get to one where he probably deserves to be. Um, but I guess this year has kind of shown what he can do. Yeah, he teases me because when I was young and he would have been about 16 or 17, he asked me to play doubles and would get a wild card into AO and I think I opted for someone else I think at that time it was either Luke Saville or Andrew Whittington or something and then I asked him the following year or two and I think he had kind of made semis one of the years with with Luke or something, and he's like, oh, now you want to play.

Speaker 2

Well, too bad type of thing. And it was some back and forward, you know. I kind of asked him again. He's like I'm not playing. And then last minute he's like I'm gonna play, want to play, and I'm like dude, you're asking me two days before the event, like I'm set. So it's been a little bit tip-a-tat and just kind of, I think honestly, one just screwing over the other a little bit, and even this US Open. I asked him and he's like I'm not playing, but he played.

Speaker 2

Um, so I don't know, maybe maybe Australian Open this year we did talk about it. I think he always has such a singles mindset so it's tough to lock him in. I think that could be fun. I think he's super talented a singles mindset so it's tough to lock him in. I think that could be fun. I think he's super talented. We get along really well. We've kind of grown up with one another, both New South Wales players. So, yeah, I think that's current. But if, yeah, we're talking like goats, it's going to be the Nadal or Roger.

Speaker 1

Sorry, max. Yeah, you all should get that locked down for Australia. Y'all would I mean. I feel like you have to do it at your home slam, because y'all would be a really good team and to have that crowd behind you sounds like it would just be so much fun.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, I think honestly at this point we need some Twitter people to help me or something, because Okay. Yeah, he's a flaky one.

Speaker 1

Okay, everybody on twitter listening. Uh, definitely tweet at max purcell and copy ellen on it. Um, let's see state of sport on twitter. Uh, congrats, ellen, for the appointment as one of the player council members. So I didn't know this, so you're going to be on the players council yeah, so I'm joining for 2025 um okay, nice. When was this announced, I guess?

Speaker 2

something sneaky that I did that not many people knew. Um, I've always wanted to join. I've always been a very vocal, passionate person and I think I'm very good at articulating my message and point. And, you know, if something I don't like, I ask the questions and I challenge them, hopefully in the right way. I'm always, you know, respectful in what I do.

Speaker 2

But, yeah, I've always wondered why things work the way they do and I think I can think outside the box a little bit and I feel like you know I'm very close and friendly with a lot of the players. That I feel most important part to why I wanted to run was so they have someone they feel like they can go to with their problems or questions or concerns. Um, you know, in the past I feel like the player council. I've not felt, you know, like comfortable to go and message a lot of those top players and be like, hey, this happened. I just feel like I wouldn't even have their phone number or something like that. So I wanted to be approachable, I wanted to make a difference.

Speaker 2

So I guess that's kind of why I felt like, okay, now I feel like people kind of respect me. Hopefully they want me there. So I ran for the spot.

Speaker 1

Awesome. When was that announced? Was that pretty recent?

Speaker 2

Yeah, so I found out kind of mid to end of US Open. The votes were kind of running during US Open Okay cool.

Speaker 1

So they asked what's on the table for both Ellen and Gabby, for doubles.

Speaker 2

So I guess do you have anything like on the agenda? Have you even thought about what you want to accomplish? To be honest, I really wouldn't know. I obviously haven't sat in any meetings yet. A lot of it's obviously confidential and stuff. But there's a lot of changes on the men's side and the doubles and they try to achieve new things and the big part has been that concern to watch more doubles and get more exposure.

Speaker 2

I think it's always something we'll try and bring up is, you know, get more marketing, more highlight points of doubles. You know kind of do these little fun clips with doubles players and I think you know they're doing a better job. Can they do more? Probably? You know there's even times where finals aren't being televised.

Speaker 2

You know pickleballs on or something and you know pickleballs on or something, and you know it's these little things that you know add up and it's kind of like, well, why is it the way it is? And you know I haven't got my feet wet in exactly a lot of the things and, to understand it all, there's obviously little things in my head. I'm like, oh, I would love this or we should have that, but there's, you know, always reasons to why this goes on. See, I don't really know what to tackle first and you know what's going to happen. I'd love to hear kind of where they're at and you know what's the things they're working on.

Speaker 2

I haven't been closely linked to a lot of the men's stuff but from what I hear we don't love a lot of what the men are thinking of doing in the doubles. But it's really exciting to have another doubles player, like on the council. In my opinion, I think gabby's done great work and she's led the way and I think everyone all the doubles players love having her there and hopefully having a second doubles player with an opinion will, um, hopefully be a bigger advocate for change in the double, that's for sure so there's like certain spots I've looked at this in the past but I don't remember.

Speaker 1

There's certain spots in the players council. It's like a top 10 player, top 20 or 50 or whatever. So is your spot gabby's? Is the double spot? Is yours just like that free spot, or is it another double spot, or do you know?

Tennis Player Discusses Tour Challenges

Speaker 2

it's a singles or double spot. So I was running against anyone kind of that was a full member, but not, I think, not top 100 or maybe 50 to 150 ranked, because there's a lot of players that you know were voting, that were you know 50 to 100 in the world. So I'm running against alex crunage at the time.

Speaker 2

So um I guess when, whenever the rankings were taken from last year's kind of where you were. So I guess, whatever she was ranked, it could have been a singles or a doubles player. But yes, I take that spot, but I'm supposed to serve both those players as well as the doubles, sure, okay.

Speaker 1

Next question from Frame Yourself on Twitter what do you think of the 2025 calendar with all the 12 ish day at 1000 events? Um, they went on to say, does it suck for a player as much as it does for a fan? And a bunch of other stuff. So what do you? What do you think about these longer events in the 2025 calendar overall?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I don't think anyone's a big fan. Okay. Yeah, look the pace staying the same and we're extending weeks of the year to stay at same events. I think ultimately, you know it's tougher for us. There's so much sitting around time, especially in the doubles. I feel like we get to events for the Monday, tuesday. We're not starting until the Friday, saturday. You have days to two, three days off in between.

Speaker 2

at times it's so unpredictable Um and yeah, like, like I said, if you're kind of making, let's say, $5,000 for being first round and or um, and then you're doing that over two weeks, you have no tournament in the second week. Or if there is a tournament, it's a 125 and yeah, there's, there's not a lot of um, yeah, opportunities and I think, yeah, for for us, the doubles players particularly we're not, we're not huge fans um, I don't know about the singles girls. I guess maybe it does offer an opportunity for them to play both and kind of see how they go or not. Feel like. I know the chat is that the calendar is too long, there's too many events, too many mandatory things. I think when you do add these two-week events, in a sense, if players aren't doing well, it's it's a week that they can rest. Are they resting? I don't know, because there's always something you can go and do um, but yeah, I know that fans are getting disengaged.

Speaker 2

It's it's tough to know who's going to play when, um, you have to stay at places for longer. It's expensive Ticket sales, it's always tough. I think the big thing for the WTA and ATP was making more money.

Speaker 2

I think it's more days, more profit from attendances, things like that it's very yeah it's obviously profit for them, but I think there's a lot of downsides that we don't love. Who knows I don't know more logistics behind it. I'd need to do a little more research, but I think from a planning standpoint we're very keen on one week events.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it goes. I feel like with these longer events they should I mean, I know they've kind of talked about starting doubles a bit later, um, especially on the men's side I don't know if they're. I don't think they're talking about it on the WTA side as much and then also trying out the, the mixed format as well, at Indian Wells this year. Um, I thought it was a good idea and I feel like, if they're going to keep these 1000 events longer, like add mixed, you know, like so that you have more opportunities to play um, and tennis needs to start taking advantage of mixed doubles anyways, because people do love to watch it. So, um, cm on instagram. Uh, what team gives you the most trouble and why? How do you strategize against them?

Speaker 2

I mean honestly, every team at the top gives you troubles. They all have their elements of. You know why they're good. Personally, a team that serves super big I find really tough. I think it you, you know. I found it like, for example, in cincinnati, asia and erin, both serving huge on fast courts. I mean those courts were lightning. It almost takes the racket out of your hand. The, the skill and the rest that you're maybe good at is no longer relevant because you know you can't really find a way to get into the return games. Um, and then you know they pose, you know great returns and if they start finding ways to break down one of your partners, serve you're in trouble, um.

Speaker 2

So yeah, I would say, teams that have both cannons is.

Speaker 2

it's extremely tough and, um, obviously, yeah, at some times you teams that are singles players, if they can volley, if they can put it all together on the day and you know, maybe for us in first rounds we're a little vulnerable they're the teams that we like to avoid at times because you know they're going to make you play a ton. Yeah, so I would say those two, but you know, there's so many teams with different elements, different conditions, different days, that we don't want to play or do want to play.

Speaker 1

So teams with different elements, different conditions, different days, that we don't want to play, or do you want to play? So, yeah, yeah, yeah, the conditions matter a lot, right, like I think that's something people watching on tv don't understand, but if you play a team like um asia and erin on those lightning fast courts, it's very different than if you played them like on clay, for example.

Speaker 2

Right, um, yeah, so certain teams are going to be better on certain surfaces, um, yeah, like I don't want to play irani and paolini on clay anymore right exactly uh sandra from instagram asked what makes an ideal doubles partner for you um, you know, I think for me it's having I've always thought having someone that's pretty solid with returns is important. I'm probably that one who's a little volatile at times with returning, so someone that can kind of hold us up in that aspect. Um, and I also like someone that volleys well, that, you know, takes away the big parts of the court and kind of does their job up there. I feel like you know I'm hitting the big parts of the court and kind of does their job up there. I feel like you know I'm hitting big balls, kind of setting them up and hopefully, as long as they're, you know, capable up there, I think then it can kind of go hand in hand.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I don't know that I need someone that serves rockets. I feel like, as long as their serve is not like terrible, I think that's fine Cause you can. I feel like I can hold my own at the net under, you know, attack or kind of help them at times. Um, but yeah, I think I want someone that's decently all around consistent, rather than having, you know, huge weapons or huge, um things that they lack or weaknesses.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I've been. I talked with Paul McNamee earlier this year and he talked about how he likes to pair teams up where there's like a dominant player from the baseline and a dominant player from the nets, like with Suey and Mertens. Mertens is the dominant player from the baseline and Suey is the dominant player up at the net, is the dominant player from the baseline and Sui is the dominant player up at the net. But there's been other times where she has to dominate from the baseline, like with Stritzeva, for example. She's the dominant player from the baseline and another dominant player from the net. And since he said that, it kind of has stuck with me and I've noticed more and more like players and coaches say kind of similar overlapping things where, like, like in this case, I'm asking you what's an ideal doubles partner? And you're talking about things that complement you, not things that are similar to you, right? Um, so that's something I've I don't know anyways thought like a lot about and uh, makes a ton of sense the more and more I watch.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think the most important thing is knowing your role on the court. Whoever you play with, you kind of got to go okay, my partner is very good at this and this and they like this. So my job is to make up for that, or to allow them to do what they do best and kind of find ways to work with it. And I think that's what Sue Wei is so good at. She kind of knows.

Customizing Rackets and Puppy Travel

Speaker 2

Okay, when she played with um Xinyu Wang, you know she's like okay, she's not as comfortable at the net. When I have to serve, she's back on the baseline, she's the baseliner. I get in, she has to get into the net when um, when that happens so that Wang can be the baseliner, she can be the one of the net similar with Elise and then, like, as you said, with Stritzerva it's the opposite, but she can play all roles. I mean that's you know, having someone like that's pretty incredible and there's the reason why she's one in the world. But yeah, when you get different partners, you kind of know their limitations and you got to like work with it yeah, it makes tons of sense.

Speaker 1

Um, scott from instagram asked how awesome is uga.

Speaker 2

I feel like we touched on this a little bit already yeah, I mean there's elements that I didn't love about uga, but I'll keep that to myself. Um, but yeah, the school I mean the money they have, the football program, the girls, everything. I think Athens is a really cool place. I think they have a great tennis culture there and you know we would have up to 5,000 people coming to watch us play at times and I think that's insane. You know, I wasn't used to having that many fans and you know you walk around campus and people kind of idolise you because you're on the tennis team or every sport they idolized you kind of thing, and I think that was really cool. I think it's kind of a UGA thing and it's like you have a family for life afterwards. But, um, yeah, I think it is what you make it, that's for sure yeah, uh.

Speaker 1

So two more questions. These are both from Pushkar. Do you customize your racket?

Speaker 2

I do. Yeah, I think every pro player is probably customizing their racket. You know the rackets that come off the shelf they're, you know, they're never consistent and most players are pretty stubborn with staying with what they like. You'll find that players that you know when they come out with a new paint job, they've still got the seven year ago seven year ago racket. They're just getting the new paint job on it. Um, but yeah, like I actually go for a light version of the racket, so around 290 grams, and then I will weight it up around 300 or 305 and I kind of put the balancing point where I like it so that I feel like, um, you know, the head in the uh is balanced where I like it, but, um, I've also had a lot of elbow issues so I can't go too heavy.

Speaker 1

So yeah, uh, which tournaments will you take your dog on the road with you?

Speaker 2

I wish every tournament but being australian, we have like strict quarantine. Um so, firstly, to take a dog. It's quite expensive to fly, but if I ever want to bring it back to australia it's like, I think, five, ten thousand dollars and I have to do six weeks in quarantine.

Speaker 1

So I don't know what you mean. Yeah, what's the? What's the reason for that? Um bring parasites or something, or.

Speaker 2

I think so, the biosecurity and the different you know.

Speaker 1

All right, we're back. Uh, ellen's laptop died there. Uh, we were talking about, I think, how to get a dog back into Australia. Very doubles and tennis related.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but long story short, it's very tough. So if I could travel with my dog, I absolutely would. But yeah, I think it's for the best, she stays in Australia.

Speaker 1

Okay, so only a few more questions here. We're going to move to the rapid fire section. Uh, what is your favorite tournament? This is not rapid um rome your answers don't have to be rapid fire answers.

Speaker 2

You can elaborate if you want okay, okay, I think I think I based rome off the food. I think also, it has one of the nicest courts um, that sunken court um, and it's always nice just to be back in rome. It's a really cool, cute city um which they paid a little better, but you know, other than that. I think, though, that, or either indian wells in miami, obviously a great two week, uh four weeks, of tennis there what is your favorite tennis book, if you have one?

Speaker 2

honestly, I don't really read. Um, I have read agassi's book and nikki gave me the book called the locker room. Um, and yeah, I don't know, I'm not a big reader. Honestly, I did enough of that for studying for college. So, yeah, it's not my thing, but yeah.

Speaker 1

How about a favorite tennis movie?

Speaker 2

It's not Challenges. I can tell you that.

Speaker 1

I just finished it, like last week on the plane, and I'm with you.

Speaker 2

I don't know if I'm even allowed to say that, but I thought it was so bad. Yeah, I swear they had shots on loops at times, like as a tennis player, you're watching it. It was hard to watch.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I don't know. I don't actually have a favorite tennis movie. I don't know that I've watched that many.

Speaker 1

I think is it Wimbledon and all those? I don't know.

Speaker 2

So last question for you how do we make doubles more popular? People don't know what they're missing out on. They're just so used to, you know, buying tickets to centre courts and stuff, and I think if they saw the product and whether it's by accident or chance I think they would actually thoroughly enjoy it. I think that's kind of the starting point is getting us on bigger courts and almost forcing people to see it, and then they can decide whether they like it or not. But yeah, that and a little bit more exposure on social media and things like that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, when I'm at tournaments and people, you know I'll be sitting there and listening to people who are watching doubles for the first time and almost every time like you'll hear people say like oh, this doubles is like really fun to watch, like they love it, it's such a good product and you're right, more exposure on bigger courts would 100% help. That I said last question, but I do have one more, since you mentioned Rome, do you feel like there's certain, I guess, tournaments or maybe countries that draw bigger doubles crowds than others?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, well, the first thing that stands out is Indian Wells. I mean, obviously you have a little bit older of a crowd, so I think people there kind of play doubles themselves. They kind of they either respect it, respected more. It's a little more country club vibe in that aspect the doubles so but there's also just obviously a very good showing it in new worlds. It's packed. So I think people are just there to enjoy the day, have watched good tennis and you know there is a lot of big courts there, so there's always going to be big stands and opportunities to watch. So I think that just encourages people to go into the stands, um, to watch. So I think that just encourages people to go into the stands, um.

Speaker 2

As for overseas and europe, it's hard to say um, not that I've noticed. I think it's just based on how the tournament's set up and if they do put you on big courts, you kind of feel like, oh, wow, big, you know there's more love. Um. But it also does depend if you play a double, a singles player, if the moment you play someone like Coco Goff, people show up because they know the name and you know um, it's great for us. But it's. It's more than just that like, yes, great, she's good at doubles, no doubt. But you know, even she was the one number one in the world, but she's not even the best you know. There is others out there, so it's like if you want to watch her, you should also maybe want to watch some other players. There's other good doubles players. So yeah, I think everything kind of is the reason why you know different weeks it looks better than others yeah, yeah, I think, um, I want to kind of challenge you on calling Coco a singles player.

Speaker 1

Um, I don't think the reason people come to her doubles court is because she's a singles player. I think it's because she's a tennis star, right. So, yeah, the problem doubles has right now is because they're not getting the marketing or the time on the big courts is there's not really any double stars like sui might be an example, um seneakova kind of she's still, yeah, I would say maybe bethany maddox sands did a good job of being a star yeah, maddox sands and base and I think an element of that comes with all the social media stuff.

Speaker 2

I think if you do a really good job.

Speaker 2

you know, uh, the publicity kind of. You know you're marking your brand, who you are. Then others want to get involved. I think she's done a lot for doublesbles Bethany and you still see it to this day. She comes out and there's so many fans for her. You know she's made a name for herself but yeah, it's not easy to do. You need to really go out there, be different, do things that not everyone's willing to do at times and yeah, yeah, 100% Awesome Ellen this was a ton of fun.

Speaker 2

We'll do it again, hopefully in person, or at least in the similar time zone next time. Any final comments or requests of the audience before we hop off here? No, but I'm always seeing Twitter posts and things like that, so if you ask questions, any suggestions, keep them coming. I try and be as active as I can and yeah, yeah, you do a great job on Twitter For everyone listening.

Speaker 1

definitely tweet out or through Instagram or whatever to get make sure Max and Ellen get to play in Australia next summer.

Speaker 2

I sound like the Sandra Gill situation here.

Speaker 1

Julee is asking me to play all this time a little bit uh desperate, I guess, but it's okay.

Speaker 2

No, we're not desperate, we're just shooting.

Speaker 1

Our shot is what I call it yeah, well, it would be super fun to watch. I think, um, y'all would have fun and the fans would love it too. So awesome. Thanks again, ellen. Uh, thanks everybody for listening. I'll include links to everything fun to watch. I think y'all would have fun and the fans would love it too. So awesome. Thanks again, ellen. Thanks everybody for listening. I'll include links to everything in the show notes and I will talk to you all soon.