Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
The only tennis podcast with a focus on doubles. We believe doubles should be more popular and get more coverage than it does, so we’re fixing that. Our goal is to help you become a better player with pro doubles tips and expert strategy. We interview ATP & WTA tour doubles players and top tennis coaches to help you improve your game.
Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
Coach Dan Kiernan Shares Stories from the WTA Finals, 2nd Set Adjustments, Positive Mindset, & More
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Dan Kiernan is the coach of Gaby Dabrowski who just won the 2024 WTA Finals alongside her partner Erin Routliffe.
I spoke with Dan a few days after winning the title in Riyadh. He shares:
- Behind the scenes stories from the Finals.
- How his coaching process has changed over the last 18 months with Gaby.
- What types of adjustments the team made from 1st to 2nd set in different matches.
Dan is one of my favorite guests because of his ability to share messages through stories. Doubles fans and players of any level can benefit from listening to Dan's advice.
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Dan Kiernan Coaching Process Evolution
Speaker 1You're about to hear my conversation with coach Dan Kiernan. I caught up with Dan after the WTA finals in Riyadh, where he and his team went 5-0 and won the WTA finals. If you're not familiar with Dan, he's been on the podcast several times. He is the coach for Gabby Dabrowski, who, alongside Aaron Ratliff, won the WTA Finals a few weeks ago, and in this conversation, we talk about how Dan has changed his coaching process. He teamed up with Gabby in the middle of the season in 2023. This was their first full season together, obviously concluding in a really successful way with the WTA Finals title, and we talk about how his coaching process has changed, how Gabby's mindset has changed over the last year and a half, how she's become more positive. I also noticed when I was doing research for this conversation that Gabby and Aaron had actually won every single second set during the WTA finals, so all five matches they won that second set by a larger margin than they won the first. So they clearly were making really good adjustments between the first and second set, and I asked Dan about that and he shared some really insightful examples from the WTA finals, as well as some other matches during his time coaching Gabby, well as some other matches during his time coaching Gabby and I think you can take a lot away from this conversation, whether you're a ATP or WTA player or a 3-0 club level player, because Dan does a really good job of using these examples to illustrate what to look for, how to make adjustments, how to have the right mindset on the court and different things like that. We also discuss several stories from the finals, including really detailed insights from the coaching box.
Speaker 1Dan's one of my favorite guests for this reason. He doesn't really hide much information. He's very transparent and clear about different stories going on and different behind the scenes situations from all of these tournaments. So this is going to be a really insightful conversation for you to listen to. And then at the end I get to some but not all of your Twitter and Instagram questions, including drills to improve your net skills, the practice court, pre-match snacks and more.
Speaker 1We kind of ran out of time so I wasn't able to get to all of your questions, but I will try to get to more of those next time I chat with Dan, I'm sure at some point in 2025. And then the last thing before I send it over to Dan the membership did go live yesterday. So if you want to check out the memberships, they're going to be discounted through this Sunday only so you can go to thetennistribecom slash membership and you will be able to read more about those, sign up for one of the different membership levels and find out more information there. So, without further delay, enjoy this conversation with coach Dan Kiernan. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have Dan Kiernan on for, I believe, the fourth time, but the first time as a WTA finals doubles champion. Coach of Gabby Dabrowski. Dan, congrats and welcome back.
Speaker 2Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. I prefer the backdrop when I last spoke to you in Cancun than my own living room right now, but it's always nice to see you.
Speaker 1Cancun was nice and I think that's the last time we chatted on the podcast anyways, and I wanted to actually start there. So last year we talked about Gabby and Aaron's partnership. They teamed up that summer, really went on a tear, won the US Open, qualified for a year in finals in Cancun. Donatare won the US Open, qualified for a year in finals in Cancun, but at that point you were only, I think, maybe three, six months into working with Gabby.
Speaker 2Is that right, something like that? Yes, I mean, I started with Gabby kind of remotely, french Open last year. I was supporting a little bit. You know that the conversations were happening. So, um, I guess, like whenever I work with somebody, I like to watch them a lot and and I also want to make sure it's the right. It's the right thing for me, but I also want to make sure it's the right thing for the player as well. You know, so that period where French Open I was with Harry Heliovara and Lloyd Glasspool, I was able to watch. I watched all of her matches at French Open last year and learnt a lot. You know I was able to. I actually gave some feedback via a friend of hers that was there, rather than direct to Gabby. I now know that Gabby loves information, so I think she was probably grabbing that information. She likes to. You know, she likes to hear about her game. You know some players I'm very conscious, don't, so I didn't want to kind of overload her with that information.
Speaker 2I then watched remotely the grass court season where I knew she was having some challenges, and again, I was a little bit kind of loosely involved in the team there, more as a sounding board and then, ironically, the first, I guess, official tournament that I was helping Gabby out was in Washington. I was helping her remotely and she played Erin Routleff in the first round and she played Erin Routleff in the first round. So the first official scouting report I did for Gabby was on Erin and I believe her partner maybe in that match might have been it was Alexa, maybe, or Rachi, yeah. And then I was kind of part of those discussions with Gabby on who her next partner was going to be. Erin was someone who I actually knew quite well. She'd been to the academy already, actually through her coach in New Zealand, neil Carter, who's someone I've known for many years. So I already had a relationship with Erin. And so then I actually came onto a call with both girls and started kind of discussing how that partnership might look.
Speaker 2So that was back in July. And then there's obviously it's a big team, right I know you spoke to Bruce, who's a legend, neil, andrea, who helps Gabby and has done since she was a young girl in Canada, and then Pat, who is in Tampa where Gabby is. So then I kind of spent that summer spending time also talking to those various coaches as well. You know, when you're working with players of this level, it takes a village and there's a lot of people behind the scenes, whether it's kind of people that have been working with players for years and years, or players, that people that players really trust and respect and will go back to.
Success Through Team Collaboration and Grit
Speaker 2So I kind of found it really important to make sure that those relationships and we've been very fortunate to have strong relationships with all of those as well so, yeah, it's been a fun ride for the last 18 months, but absolutely the girls deserve every every bit of credit that comes their way, because, uh, our job's pretty easy to clap and cheer and tell them a few things, but to go out and perform and do it, it's the credit. All goes with the players.
Speaker 1I'm always curious about. You know the results are great, but I'm always curious about the process, and this is um the first full year with Gabby. It sounds like I'm curious how things have changed between, say, cancun last year, when you're maybe three to six months in, and then today after you've just completed or Gabby has Billie Jean King Cup still, but you've completed the majority of a full calendar season. What's changed between this time last year and, say, riyadh this year?
Speaker 2I think quite a lot of things right. I think ultimately, life happens as well, you know. So there's, there's, there's many things that are. I mean obviously Bruce, bruce, who's a who's a pivotal part of of the team and I like to think of things as team. Yes, technically I would be Gabby's coach, but obviously also there's she's got Andrea and Pat that help when she's back in various places. I mean Erin, after Madrid, came to my academy in Spain for 10 days before Rome on her own. I went to Madrid with Erin. You know I've done many tournaments with them both. I wouldn't see myself as Gabby's coach when I'm there. It's very much where we're all working, we're working together and I think everything that we've done and the success has been around that team element. It's about combining their strengths, their weaknesses, where they are in their life. There's many things that happen.
Speaker 2Gabby's had some injuries this year, so then Aaron's gone on and had different partners during the clear-court season, the clay court season, so you know, I think we've seen anybody that watches doubles. We'll see the confidence that Erin has has has absolutely picked up over the last 12, 18 months. You know, I think we can all see Erin's a fantastic tennis player. But she's gone from being someone who, if we're being, if we're being honest, was struggling at 60, 70 in the world and and maybe didn't have a direction and she's now legit one of the top doubles players in the world on a week-in, week-out basis. You know, gabby's obviously had that consistency for a long time. But I think what we've seen and anyone that watched in Riyadh and probably the most pleasing for me, I think for me as someone who is so close to them and someone who hopefully has had an impact on them was seeing Gabby smiling on match point after wasting three match points in the final in Riyadh, you know, and if I go back to Cancun, gabby got in her own way in that semifinal match. You know she, for whatever reason, they played with Melikar Perez.
Speaker 2I give them a lot of credit because they came out firing in that match. But it knocked. It knocked the girls and in particular, actually on that day and Gabi will admit this it knocked her and they were 6-1-3,. Love, double breakdown in that match. This, it knocked her and they were six, one, three, love, double breakdown in that match. And the biggest credit I can give both girls is they are gritty as hell, they like. They never cease to amaze me and I can sit there sometimes and I'm can feel a bit frustrated. What you're doing, girl, you know, because you get you. You feel that as a coach at times, but the one thing I can never question is their desire and their grit, and they really gritted their way back into that match somehow and found themselves winning the second set.
Speaker 2And Gabby didn't reset her mind for the tiebreak.
Speaker 2She came over and she was still internalizing and I think traditionally that was something that happened with Gabby.
Speaker 2I think she got in her own way a little bit, you know, and that's something she's working very hard on.
Speaker 2She's worked very hard.
Speaker 2And to see her be able to find the joy in the moment and to be able to actually take that moment, be able to laugh at herself a little bit and not quite take herself so seriously in every single moment, to then come up with a beautiful serve right in the spot that we want that serve to be in in in that particular moment, that was, that was a beautiful thing to see, you know, and and and again, that would.
Speaker 2The credit to Aaron also goes to that because, you know, I think anyone that watched the WTA finals, there was probably three or four teams that were were pulling a lot of faces at each other and and not necessarily helping each other. You know, and there's nothing worse than being judged on the court and feeling judged, and you know those sort of feelings. And the fact that, though, that the girls are finding their way to really come together as a team in those sticky moments and find the joy in the challenge of pressure and the challenge of adversity, yeah, that's been a that's been a real big pleasure and I would say, certainly a change from 12 months ago.
Speaker 1I noticed. So I was looking at the scores for the the wta finals. They went five and oh uh. But it looks like every single second set gabby and aaron had a better result than the first set. So they won the finals. First set seven, five and then second set was six, three. One game better um, the semi finals was seven, six and then second set, six, one. Uh, the three setters. They won the second set in both matches, um, so it seems like they're doing, at least in this tournament, um, or y'all as a team are doing a really nice job of making adjustments after the first set. What is your process for that and what do you attribute that second set success to?
Speaker 2we're just lulling people. Well, that was part of the plan it was just low, low domain, and then genius.
Speaker 1Genius.
Speaker 2Do you know what it's? The scoring system is fascinating, first and foremost. Like God, I hated that at times as a coach, but I think for a fan it's it's, it's it's genius. I really do because you can be in a position and actually I would use the Paul if I take the Paulini-Rani match. I talked about this on the live streams I was doing last week. On the live streams I was doing last week, paulini blew me away and I'm sure also the girls. At first of like, oh my goodness, like I don't think I've seen a ball hit like that. It was wherever the ball was served. It came back extra just over the net. You know you can normally have a pretty good idea of where they like to return. It was like, well, hold on, she's supposed to return there, but she's now returning there just as well. So she just did a beautiful job and I think that one I would attribute to just great play from certainly Paolini and obviously Arani's the perfect foil for paulini as well in lots of ways.
Speaker 2Um, what was said? They were setting six, five down. I absolutely have no idea. If the girls hear me in matches, you know you're in these places, but what I was calling out at that point was and irani was serving for the match was you've lost the first hour of the match. You've lost it. You've lost the first hour of the match and you're feeling that. I understand that. However, you win the next 15 minutes and you win the match. You know, let's flip it. And they did. They broke to 15. They won the tiebreak 7-1. And they did serve a match point at 9-8. And Gabby said after the match we won the last 15 minutes. You know, and it's like so the ability. One thing that I would attribute to it is grit.
Strategic Adjustments for Mental Toughness
Speaker 2So that match, to be honest, they were kind of a little bit outplayed. If I'm brutally honest, and it's the first time as a pair they've played Paolini, arani, it's probably the team I knew the least. If I'm, you know I'd watched a lot. But until you play a team, sometimes it's hard to fully feel them and fully understand their trends and tendencies. And if I was the coach of the Italian team, I would feel quite unfortunate that I lost that match. And certainly they had a similar match again in their last round. You know they were very unlucky not to go through to the semifinals, in all honesty, and that's what this scoring system does right. You know, the stars have to align a little bit to get through. I would say that the match against. So they lost another set, didn't they? And that was against that was against Des and Caroline.
Speaker 1Yeah, Des and Caroline.
Speaker 2Yeah, and in that match I thought they got the plan perfect but they didn't execute. So the ball landed on their rackets and they didn't execute and then they lost. I think they lost the serve at 5-4, from 40-15 up. It just kind of happened and it's gone and that's a set. And so the message at that point was there's no panic, what you're doing, what you're doing is right. You know, it's just now, keep your composure and execute a little bit better. And and this is, there's no problem there, and I I also think they lost maybe six out of seven sudden death juices in that match. You know, so, so, so that one. I mean they could have easily come off the losers in that match, but it it, it always, even though they were set down, I was happy with what they were doing, so they didn't feel there was a big, big adjustment to be made.
Speaker 2You know, to be made um, you know, the semi-final, ellen perez played a beautiful first set. She played great, she played fantastic. Um, yet the girls won it, so that that, I think, took the the wind out the sails of the opponents a little bit. Um, like they, they did a great job to win that set, because, I mean nikki played well, but I thought ellen, particular, particular, played quite a spectacular first set and they found a way of winning. And that just sometimes happens, right. I know you can win a 7-6, but that for me was probably the most complete mental match in terms of just being relentless, which is one of my messages to the girls. You know, if they want to be the best doubles team in the world for the next couple of years and win multiple Grand Slams, relentless is a word that is needed. You know, especially in that scoring system, there's no room for switching off, you know. So the message was really strong in that match of okay, now you go again, now you go again, now you go again. So and they did that very well.
Speaker 2So I think, I think they'll always be small tactical adjustments that are made for sure, but but there's also, there's also the the big swings can come from the mental adjustments that you can have within the match and your ability to recognize moments, recognize when you win a tight, a tight first set, that now's the time. Now's the time to pounce. Or now's the time to be kind to yourself, because actually you've lost the set but you've not done things too wrong, or in the Paulini Arani game, you've kind of been beaten for an hour, but when the next 15 minutes, and you're okay, you know, and that's you know, and that's you know. So it's like switching, switching the mindset, and that's that's something that the, the, they both deserve a hell of a lot of credit for. Um, there will, of course, be little minor adjustments tactically, that I might not go into all of those details against the players that we might be playing in 2025, but you know, but in term, in terms of the mental adjustment and outlook, I think that's where you get your big wins as well.
Speaker 1Yeah, those examples are really helpful and I think it sounds like the ability to and this is partly your job as a coach, partly their job as players but the ability to recognize, I guess, for lack of a better word why you are down, if you do lose that first set, or if you are down a set and a break, is it simply you're doing the right things but not executing? So maybe you raise your energy level or you try to regroup and get that focus back? Or are there more strategic and tactical adjustments that need to be made? Maybe in the case of Paolini, if she's playing that well, you've got to maybe try something drastically different to throw the opponent off so.
Speaker 2I think that those two examples and they did that for sure, and they did that in that match and I won't go into the match that it was, but there was one match that they played where sudden death juice points they served in the wrong spot and in terms of like I would, for me, as a generalization, you've got, you've obviously got your various spots to serve. You've got you basically your four, four key spots. You know, whether it's T, whether it's forehand body, backhand body or wide, obviously different speeds and spins, so you can vary that. But you will tend to have a return that a player you know doesn't want to hit and and in general, you want to force them to try and hit that in the bigger moments. And you know, there was one match in particular where there was a couple of key points where I felt they gave the player the return they wanted. And that then might become my job and, to be honest, the girls are very smart so they're probably working it out without me, but I'd still, if I can get their ear. Those are the, those might be some of the messages that I'm then passing to them and I'll probably get a yeah, we know, or I'll get a. You know it might be, you know those sort of things, but I I think that's where the collaborative effort comes as a team as well. They've just being able to, and as much as possible.
Speaker 2Of course, I massively care about the girls and I want them to have success, but I try and watch as objectively as I can, you know, so that in those moments, if needed, you know and I'll sometimes jot some notes down, it could just be I'll give a small example of US Open last year actually. Well, they played the first set last year. I'd have to look at what it was, but I have a feeling they might have lost a 6-1 set in the first round of the US Open last year, where I was thinking, oh, this is not going too clever, this new relationship. But I believe they had 17 break points or 14 break points now. Now, in that moment when you've lost the 6-1 first set in a grand slam, you might not have that awareness, you know. So, that bit of information. When they came to get the towel to say, look, you've had 14 break points, you're gonna get your breaks, don't worry. You know, let's really focus on calling the right players on your serve. And, you know, let's maybe think a little bit about x, y or z. And after the match they both commented that that relieved a lot of pressure for them because they maybe hadn't to have that. They didn't have that awareness that they were creating the opportunities. And once they got that awareness that okay, well, we're creating the opportunities on the return games, we keep going with that, we're going to get our breaks. Then the shoulders get a little bit more loosened and that's where I think you can impact at the side of the court as well as just bringing those little awareness pieces.
Speaker 2It might be look, in this set I think it was in one of the matches, I think it might have been Paulini Arani no, I think it was Cham Kudamatova were four, three up serving and they'd served at 93%. I think they'd missed one serve in the match and I think Cham was about to serve and when they came over I just said to them look, they've served at 93%. You've had one second serve so far. I assure you you're going to get more, you know. So don't stress yourself out. The second serves are going to come, you're going to get your opportunities.
Speaker 2And and Chan, I think, double faulted on the first point, which which which feeds into making. You can obviously look stupid as a coach as well, but when something like that happens it maybe builds a bit of confidence in what messaging you're giving. And then they broke back for four all and then obviously went on to win that match in straight sets. So I always try and have my eyes on those type of things just to try and draw some nice awareness for the girls. They'll have a decent idea they're serving well, but just bringing some of the realities home to them, I think, helps tennis players in those more stressful moments as well.
Tennis Team Success Strategy and Preparation
Speaker 1Yeah, it sounds like you're differentiating between the outcome and then the process, and you're able to see what's going on with the process. Do we have the right process and is it just resulting in a bad outcome and we trust it, or is our process a bit off and we need to make some adjustments there? One other question, before I get to a few questions from Twitter and Instagram Do you think and I don't think I have a good answer for this Do you think it is more difficult to win the WTA finals or a major title in doubles? With a major, you're winning. It's seven matches or six, I guess, in doubles, right, you're playing with that.
Speaker 1You're playing a full third WTA finals. It's only five matches. You can actually lose one, but it's no ad, it's 10 point tiebreaker for the third and you're playing the other best teams in the world every single round I think you've answered the question a little bit in terms of how difficult it's a tough one right, yeah, it's a tough one, like it is a tough one, and there's there's obviously yeah, it's a tough one, like it is a tough one, and there's obviously things on both sides.
Speaker 2What you're not going to get from me is an answer of that's more difficult than that's easy, you know. So, because the stars have to align for both, and I think that was one thing we discussed as a team as well. Obviously, too, I would call it a major championship, you know, I think it's, it's the number five, I think everyone's clear. Certainly with the finance that is involved now, it's not far off double the money of a Grand Slam, you know. So I think, in terms of that, to have two what we would call major championships happening within that team within a 15, 16 month, that's quite special, and I think we all appreciate that things have to align for that to happen. You know, I take a Ronnie Paolini, you know, and they lost an 11 to 11 nines in the in the group stages, you know, and yet they, they could have been holding that trophy above their heads, like, like, the margins are so fine and so small, which obviously makes it very difficult. The way, if you don't mind me answering this question. This one feels more rewarding as a team, and I'll tell you why. I mean, they're both incredibly rewarding, right, and they're both memories for life and they're both incredible. But from my perspective, this one was we planned it out in lots of ways. This plan came through. You know, we, we sat down after us open and the and look, they made quarter files of the U S open, but it wasn't maybe their best event in terms of. You know, there was a few issues in preparation, a few health issues in preparation. We, we didn't quite get the practice in that we wanted to at the U S open for, for again, health reasons, and I think that those lack of reps maybe let us, the girls, down in some key moments in the quarterfinal match. But we had a big discussion at the end of that in the gym in New York and that discussion was kind of looking ahead and then coming back. You know, rather than just thinking we were talking about China. You know, there was a discussion do we, do we go to China? You know, is this the right thing? What's the right way to approach this? So we started looking at 2025 and we started looking on how that was going to look, you know, and obviously personally, are you going to play together? Not that that's ever been a doubt, but you know we should never assume right, certainly not in the love triangle, that is doubles. And so that discussion happened and then it was a case of, yeah, that's happening. And this year they wanted to start in Auckland obvious reasons, but together. You know, I think for the people in New Zealand I think it's quite special that Gabby and Aaron are going to go and play in Auckland. They also wanted to do training together in in New Zealand leading into that and maybe learn some lessons from pre-season last year. So we were starting to look at all of these things, but they were very, very clear we want to win the WTA finals. That's what we want to do, that's our, that's our medium term goal. So so we then put about this plan in place.
Speaker 2I originally wasn't going to be going to China with them. We weren't a hundred percent that we're going to play China, but then that became a non-negotiable. You know, we're going to China, but we're going to use it as a training block. We're going to use it as a training block. We're going to get. You know. We know there's things we need to do and anyone that saw us in China. There was a lot of time spent on the practice court a lot you know, and we worked through not just the reps but we worked through a lot of specific players, a lot of you know people. We understand how people are starting to play against them. Now you know, because they've had the success you know, we see. Now you know some of the weaknesses people are trying to expose. So we spent a lot of time in those areas.
Speaker 2And then what we did after China their results weren't the best, and fair play to some of the opponents. They played as well, but I came away from that feeling very, very good about where they were. But they then needed matches. So they weren't going to play Japan. They weren't going to play Japan, they were going to play. They weren't going to play Osaka, they were going to play Tokyo. So, but we were always going to use Japan as a little bit of a downtime for them, because they live crazy lives. We know that Billie Jean King Cup's coming up and then all of a sudden they're in Auckland and they're doing preseason. They love Japan. So that those two weeks were used as a little bit weird because they played the two tournaments, but it was almost used as a bit of a holiday period. And then we set a goal of playing five or six matches in those two weeks because I felt they were in a great place, but they needed matches.
Speaker 2Going into Saudi they hadn't got quite enough matches since US Open. You know, and I think we saw that on the singles side with Rabakina, we saw that with, probably Svantec you know these players also to really perform at elite level. So that was all talked about and planned and you can often fall flat on your face with these things, but everything just fell into exactly what we planned. Exactly what we planned. They turned up feeling refreshed in saudi, you know, really good spirits. They've got the matches. We knew that they were in a good place because of the training that we'd done. We had a brilliant, like faultless, almost faultless week, because you're in saudi for a week before you play.
Speaker 2Every practice session was fun, we kept light, but we put the work in. We obviously had spent a lot of time together. So it was a very tight-knit group. Erin's sister was there, my wife came out, you know, like we just had this kind of wonderful experience, but also very businesslike and for me, that, ultimately, was what led to the edge that they had to win these tight matches. So that felt very good, I think, for all of us, because of the plan that had happened, whereas US Open incredible, amazing, but it was, like we call it, roy of the Rovers in the UK, because Roy of the Rovers was this soccer player that they always had these like special things that happened that aren't supposed to happen. It was a real story that came out of a little bit, out of nowhere, right, and you know, yes, we enjoyed that and it was amazing, but this time it felt like it had been a professional job very well done by all of the team and ultimately, the girls then executed and got their, got their awards, but they both awesome.
Speaker 1That's it. Yeah, yeah, I understand. Yeah, that's a great story. Thanks for sharing that. Um, so I want to get to some Instagram and Twitter questions and then I know you probably got to run soon. Um, so, some of these questions I think people thought I was having Gabby on because some of them seem like they're questions for players.
Speaker 2Sorry for the disappointment.
Speaker 1But let's ask them anyways what is your pre-match snack? Mine or Gabby's um the question from good life travel is what is your pre-match snack?
Speaker 2so I don't know if they thought I was having gabby on or well, I, I think I know who that is, so it might be me. That might be a bit of a joke to me.
Speaker 1Um, wait, this is that's your instagram account no, it's not.
Speaker 2It's not, but I know who it is, I think oh, you know who it is.
Mental Toughness and Pre-Match Rituals
Speaker 2Okay, it's a friend, I think it's a friend of erin, okay, so my my pretty much snack is is whatever I can get my hands on, probably at that point. But, um, I know, I know certainly. Certainly one thing I've realized tennis players love coffee and sushi and like it's like even I do like sushi I'm not a coffee drinker, but you go to any tennis tournament, it's like sushi is like the number one, I think, for all tennis players. But the one thing I will share with you is what I was having, me and me and Aaron's sister Tara, and then my wife Vicky when she was over.
Speaker 2They had this power mix tea, which was this turmeric tea with cinnamon and all of these, all of these different things in. So that was our go-to we were having. We were having that two or three times a day. Somebody told me it got rid of some inflammation in the body. Um, so it wasn't very nice, but we felt like we were drinking it for health reasons. So, uh, there was. There was certainly some nice choices over there, but that was, that was our go-to when we were out in Saudi.
Speaker 1Nice Schudler, probably pronouncing that wrong from Instagram, asked what does Gabby's pre-match warmup involve?
Speaker 2Well, in Saudi dancing. So, and that's genuine. Anyone that saw the videos I mean you've got the classic, the classic video for me, which I don't know if you remember it Australian open this year, but the the the gym cam caught them and you've got. You've got Aaron dancing to a Taylor Swift song and you've got Gabby. I was doing kind of footwork drills with Gabby and I think at the time people would say, well, that's kind of sums them up. You and I think at the time people would say, well, that's kind of sums them up. You know you've got, and I like to think what they've done actually is they've rubbed off on each other in different ways and certainly kind of Aaron's more maybe relaxed manner before matches and that would probably maybe be a bit deceiving. But you know, having they called it their dance party and it was genuinely they were doing 30 minutes, they had a playlist.
Speaker 2It's quite nice because at WTA finals, because they were one of the top seeds, they got their own locker room. So it's lovely to have that space, because a lot of these events you just don't get space. You're around people all the time. You're not sure if you're going to kind of run into somebody or you can't quite be who you want to be and you know, that kind of authentic self I think is is a really important part of part of pre-match preparation and they could just be their authentic selves.
Speaker 2They had their own space, they played their music, they danced gabby, you know I I do little notes for Gabby and we were going going through that, so we're kind of locking into that a little bit, but she's kind of doing it while she's dancing and doing getting her getting her body moving, um, and yeah, I think it's something that worked really well for them. Actually, it was a. It was a nice mix of of getting their minds and their bodies ready to go. So all tournaments we're coming to in 25, watch out, we need some space for the pre-match dance party.
Speaker 1Yeah, that sounds like something you're not going to be able to get rid of. You've got to keep that going for sure. So Derek asked what net drills do they do to practice her?
Speaker 2amazing poaching and quick reactions at the net. Yeah well, we'll, as part of I guess you'll have a we would have a, a 30 minute warm-up, warm-up drills. That will be done pretty much every session, um, and they, they will always incorporate offense and defense. You know they will always incorporate um, serve, being a server, being a returner, being a returner's partner, being a service partner, um, you know that would be a pre-match warm-up, but that would also tend to be a very similar warm-up that they would do at the start of every session, you know, which would involve volleying in the wall, and I massively encourage the girls to play at a high tempo. The higher tempo we can play, the better. You know, in terms of it's, they're two of the best doubles players in the world, so they should use each other to push each other to get better, and that's a big part of my philosophy. And you know, getting that, getting that match intensity while you're doing it, for me is really important. Unless it's a, you might be in a more training block phase where you're breaking things down and lowering the intensity and looking at a certain footwork, and we actually worked on some footwork, a certain footwork pattern, actually with Gabby during the event or the week leading into the event, which she did fantastically well, and at that point we obviously are breaking that down and doing slower feeds and looking at it that way. So they'll work on the wall. They'll then come forward where one of them is attacking, one of them is defending. You know we do a lot, a lot of work on incoming volleys. I think anyone that watches them knows that they they're trying to spend as much time as as they can at the net within reason, not just kamikaze. They're both very good tennis players so they can use their ground strokes and their lobs and their chips and different ways to set that up. But ultimately they're going to be playing a lot of incoming first volleys, you know, and their ability to use those volleys to set up them both at the net with the wall. So we'll do a lot of work, work on that.
Speaker 2Um, you know my tennis has improved over the last 12 months. Again, I've kind of got my rackets out and you know I I can play the role of being if it's ostapenko, if it's somebody, you know, I can, I can play the various patterns that that we that we know are coming, um, so we try and make it as live as possible in in that regard, and then it would then be what specifics we're working on. We'll obviously plan that all in advance, you know, are we working on the specifics of service partner? And if we are, do we want to do that from a feeding position? Do we want to do that me serving one of them returning and make it more live? Do we want to do it? Those two against me and a hidden partner, or two hidden partners where they're challenging themselves to get touches as service partners? There's obviously various ways to be able to do that and we will go into the more specifics that we want to advance at any particular time. If it's in tournament, we'll obviously be a little bit more specific to the next round opponents that they're going to play. If we take a Rani, a little bit of insight on that one.
Speaker 2You don't come across many players that serve and volley and I felt they did a sorry girls if you're listening, but a poor job as returners partner against Olivia Nichols in Beijing. Olivia Nichols is obviously a serve volleyer and we hadn't they hadn't come across many serve volleyers for a while and I felt the returner's partner job wasn't done strong enough. So we spent quite a significant amount of time the day before they played Irani because we knew Irani was serve volleying and I believe it was 6-5, irani serving for the match 15-0. Aaron played a great return and Gabby made the perfect return as partner move and touched the ball and knocked it off for a winner. If she hadn't have done that, they could be shaking hands, losing that match 6-1-7-5, you know. So the margins are so small that I think it's really important that we identify where we want to get those extra reps and work, working specific to the, the opponents that they're going to play when that is, when that is within the match.
Speaker 2I use data.
Speaker 2I've got someone who does does the work for me on that.
Speaker 2You know that's something I've also brought into the team.
Developing Tennis Players Through Teamwork
Speaker 2So obviously we'll be looking at that from a developmental standpoint as well, when it goes into training blocks and pre-season, and we'll obviously then be specific for the areas that we believe that the girls need to do a better job of. But when you're in tournament, a lot of it is linked to scouting on the opponents that they're playing and what players are going to be important. And lastly, on that, I certainly can't take much credit for Gabby's amazing reactions and volleys, you know, like that's something she's had for many, many, many years, you know, and everyone that's worked with her over the years deserves a lot of that credit, and nobody more so than Gabby herself, because, you know, both girls do have fantastic hands and but you don't work on it on a daily basis, you don't push it, you don't play at high tempos, you don't set situations up where you're going to have to steal some points uh, you quite quickly lose, lose those skills as well, and that would be a big bit of advice for anybody sure, uh, do you have a few more minutes?
Speaker 1we've got several more questions here yeah, no, no problem uh, so let's see. Uh r carlo from instagram asked um, how do you work on the mental side of the game with gabby, who's often hard on herself? I feel like we've touched on a lot of this already, um, but is I'm curious about that too. You talked about the difference between Cancun last year and Riyadh this year. Has she worked with like a sports psychologist or is it something?
Speaker 2you've talked about as a team. I'm sure she does, you know that's again that's, I guess it's players' prerogative to talk on those things, but I think most tennis players are working with sports psychologists right now. In terms of it, I think the way that I would break this down is you've got bigger picture, longer term development pieces which can be perspective. It can be, you know, your, your overarching outlooks on things. You know not, that will come from a lot of conversation. That will come from, you know, I, I, I, this team has worked. I believe I, I I'm a massive believer in timing, you know, and it's like I believe myself, aaron, I believe myself, aaron, as I'm talking about from Gabby's perspective, bruce, all of the team that are around it's been the right timing for that relationship to happen. You know, it's not like it's not that I'm the best coach for everybody, it's not that Aaron's the best partner for everybody, it's not that it's just's just so. Much of this is about timing, and the same with on Aaron's side, from Aaron's perspective, it was the right timing for Gabby and the right timing with Bruce coming into her life and the right timing with all of those things. And I think we laugh and joke about it quite a bit, because Gabby didn't have a US college journey, so she didn't have that team vibe and tennis players that don't. It can be quite challenging, it can be quite lonely and you can get used to it just being your own thing. You know, whereas from day one and hopefully that's come through today as well this is a a team. This is not about Gabby, it's not about Aaron, it's not about me, bruce, andrea, pat, you know, it's Neil. This is about a team of people and they're the drivers. Of course, they're like the Formula One drivers who are driving the car and the most special people in this team, but it's about a team coming together in every aspect of what that is.
Speaker 2And all of that element I think has had a really positive and quite profound impact on Gabby, from a more joy from her tennis now than any time in her career. You know there was probably moments 12, 18, 18 months ago where she was doubting whether she wanted to be in this for long. You know, and whereas I see it, she, she enjoys it. I can, you know, you can see it on the practice court there's, there's a lot of joy that's coming from it. So I think that's been a a big thing and that's that's not like a specific thing you work on, but that's just an overarching.
Speaker 2When you get things right and the right conversations are happening and you're unlocking certain bits, uh, that makes a chance, it makes a big difference. And then the second part for me is kind of in the moment, you know, and and and and again. I'd say this with Gabby, but this is with any tennis player. For me, in the moment, mental skills it needs to be worked on. Routines need to be worked on.
Speaker 2Calling, having clarity of what you're trying to do on the court and having kind of almost this non-negotiable, no doubt in your mind leads to what I call, you know, what I call committing to helpful attentions. You know, and if you, if you're able to commit to something helpful in that moment, you are in the present moment, you know, and because we will have lots of unhelpful things that will come in our minds, but regardless of how you feel, if you can bring it back into, okay, now I'm going to commit to this. And we saw gabby do that beautifully, like we've talked about earlier, serving for the for the championship, 5-3, 40 level, back to juice, okay. And her commitment at that point was get up to the serve and hit the spot, you know, and, and by having clarity of that, that enables us to be able to execute.
Speaker 2You know, if we don't have clarity of that, we see it with tennis players all the time when they're not clear on what serve they're going to hit, what their identity is. Am I someone who's stepping in and taking the ball early? Am I someone who's moving back? Am I doubting this? I'm thinking this, and there's a whole kind of overload happening. You end up not committing to anything and you find yourself getting carried away into the past, which is going to bring a lot of frustration, or you're thinking about the present, which is going to be bringing a bring a lot of anxiety. And I think that area, as something that that gabby has has worked on, worked on hard, and I think those things have made it made a big difference so we'll do one last one here.
Speaker 1Um, we'll save a few of these others for for next time because, uh, you're a very popular guy, dan, and a lot of people submitted questions here well, that's, that's not.
Speaker 2That's not normally the case, so I think this is more. This is more gabby and erin than I pulled them myself, I'm sure so last question here from lee um.
Speaker 1This is kind of a multi-part question, so I'll ask all of it and you can answer however you'd like to 23 years or years old range in order to benefit their 24 to 40 year old self on the doubles court and this comes from a college coach here in the US.
Speaker 2Invest in a system that you believe in. I think it's really important that I talk about this a lot and it's does doubles beat tennis? But does tennis beat doubles? I? I got that question last night. I was with a friend last night and the atp tour finals were on and he was saying would these guys be it's an age-old question right? Would these guys beat nad Nadal and Djokovic or Alcaraz and Sinner?
Speaker 2And some days tennis beats doubles, some days, you know it'll happen. You know we've, we've seen it probably happens, more, to be honest, on the women's side than the men's side. However, and and if I use erin gabby, a good example, because they're very good tennis players. But we take sinniakova and townsend, both what 40 and 60 in the world respectively. They have tennis and they have doubles, which is why they're so good. You know, if you, if you've got, if you've got them both, so what I would say to someone at those ages? If you've got them both, so what I would say to someone at those ages, if you can learn a system that suits your skill set, that is vital. You know, and being able to understand your positioning, being able to understand your players, being able to do the basics of that system very, very well and having something that you believe in and having a way of playing doubles that you believe in, you are in a great position. You're in a really, really good position, you know. And then, obviously, refining those skills along that way, you know, and going along that way, and then I would say, get lots and lots of matches and get a lot of experience. You know, play a lot, you know, learn, make mistakes, try something you know, work it out. And if you're looking for a bit of inspiration in that, I do think, like a player like Liv Nichols is a fantastic, is a fantastic example of that.
Gratitude for Successful Tennis Season
Speaker 2You know, you speak to Liv and she was on my podcast Control the Controllables, and she was, and I control the controllables and she was, and I know live from an early age. She she was not a great tennis player at 18, but she went somewhere where the coach understood a certain system, the louis kaya system. Um, she had input from lou Louis Kaya and she learned a certain way of playing doubles and she had the skill set that maybe suited that and she was someone and I remember seeing Liv at 21, maybe 20, and I told her she'd be a top 50 doubles player. Absolutely no problem If she just kept going and played, and played, and played, um, you know, and it was then about getting the experience, about getting the hours in, and then, of course, it comes to finding the right partner and, you know, being able to build along that way, um, but I would, I would certainly say, if you have the the fortune of working with someone who is has got a strong mind and a strong system of how to play doubles, and you learn, you learn that way of doing it, and then you put the hard work in every day, you get your numbers in, you get your reps in, you play the number of matches you know, you, you actually won't go far away from being a bloody good doubles.
Speaker 1David Elikwu Great advice. Dan, thanks a ton for coming on.
Speaker 2Congrats again on an awesome season and we will see you in 2025 well, big, big thank you and, and, as ever, keep up the the great work and the great doubles fight. It is uh, it is massively appreciated, so thank you thanks dan.