Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Andrea Vavassori Interview: The USO Mixed Doubles Post, Grand Slam Finals, & Italian Tennis

• Will Boucek • Episode 230

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Andrea Vavassori is the #9 doubles player on the ATP Tour and won the 2024 US Open Mixed Doubles title with Sara Errani. He also reached the final of the men's doubles at the Australian Open earlier this year.

I spoke with him at Indian Wells this year about those achievements, his vision for the future of doubles, the controversial US Open mixed doubles changes, and a lot more.

  • Potential innovations for mixed doubles including a ranking system and year-end Masters event to increase visibility
  • Reflecting on his successful partnership with Simone Bolelli and their journey to three Grand Slam finals
  • Explaining his reaction to US Open mixed doubles format changes and why tradition matters more than money (Read his viral Instagram post)
  • Describing how Bolelli's calm demeanor complements his energetic playing style
  • Highlighting the "Sinner effect" that has transformed tennis popularity in Italy
  • Discussing the challenges of balancing singles and doubles careers

Andrea and Sara went on to win the BNP Paribas Open mixed doubles draw in Indian Wells less than a week later. He is on the ATP player's council so I'm hoping he can continue to fight for doubles and make positive changes for tennis.

Learn more about Andrea & follow:

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Introduction to Andrea Vavasori

Speaker 1

Andrea Vavasori is an Italian tennis player ranked number nine in the world in doubles. He and his doubles partner, simone Bolelli, are the number two ranked team on the ATP Tour and Andrea was recently in the kind of doubles news for a post on Instagram. It was a reaction to the U Open mixed doubles changes. He and Sarah Irani won the mixed doubles title last year and he was not a fan of the changes and I'll link in the show notes below so that you can see his full reaction and, of course, we dive into that reaction. I ask him if his opinion has changed at all and what the process was for coming up with that post that he and Sarah Arani shared with us on Instagram.

Vision for Mixed Doubles' Future

Speaker 1

We also talk about his partnership with Simone Bilelli. They've made three Grand Slam finals in the last couple of years. They made the Australian Open final earlier this year and we talk about what he's learned from that experience. We also talk about what he's learned from Bolelli as well as Bolelli's old partner, fabio Fognini what Bolelli might say in terms of differences between playing with Fabio Fognini, what Bilelli might say in terms of differences between playing with Fabio and Andrea. We also talk about the passion that Italian tennis fans have how he manages his very high doubles ranking versus his singles ranking. He's actually still playing some singles as well, and we talk a little bit about that as well. We talk about Davis Cup and a few other topics also. So, without further delay, enjoy this conversation again from Indian Wells with Andrea Vavasori. Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have Andrea Vavasori on, andrea, welcome, thank you very much.

Speaker 2

It's a pleasure to be here. Andrea Vavasori on Andrea welcome.

Speaker 1

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for coming on. We were just chatting about well, we're here at Indium Wells. We were just chatting about the mixed doubles here. The tournament will start tomorrow and you're entered with Sarah Irani and we'll get to US Open Mixed here in a bit. But you were talking about some different ideas you have for mixed doubles. Yeah, on a bigger level, talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, this year I'm also in the player council so I'm trying to also try to understand if there are ideas or things that can develop doubles and mixed doubles. I think we have a big tradition behind us and I think it's a nice sport to also to bring to the fans, because we know that how much is important to have content for our own sites. I can understand the point of others that it's tough to bring to the blockcasters our product in this moment, right now, but the on-site product is very important for the tournament. So mixed doubles can be also for the biggest events, a way to bring enjoyment to the fans. And we were talking about the mixed doubles thing, that now that the thousands are two weeks, mixed doubles thing, that now that thousands are two weeks, I think we can propose to maybe in the second week that the tournaments need matches to bring.

Speaker 2

Maybe tournaments like not this one. This one is a very good initiative by the tournament. It's an invitational tournament, but maybe do like a real tournament for mixed doubles and maybe put a ranking at the end of the year. Maybe we were saying maybe a master at the end of the year, I don't know like ideas to connect with the fans. I think a ranking will be nice, because maybe you don't have to change the team every time, maybe you stick with one partner all the year for the Grand Slams and maybe for the 1000. With two weeks like this one Rome and madrid we have a lot of opportunities yeah, especially in that second week.

Speaker 1

Um, we're entering the second week here at indian wells. It's monday of week two right now and there's going to be plenty of, uh, I guess like stadium four, five, six are going to be pretty empty the next several days without that. So mixed doubles can certainly take advantage of that. Um, and I like this idea of a kind of wider mixed doubles tour as well. Um, one of the things that everybody talks about is, uh, we're one of the only sports where men and women can play together. Yeah, and one of the initial things that I was a little bit upset with with the US Open is that I know for a fact that these singles players who play in this mixed event are not going to give 100% effort in this mixed event.

US Open Mixed Doubles Changes

Speaker 1

Like there's just no way they can't, and I don't blame them. They have to prioritize their singles slam over the next two weeks. So we're I don't know, I guess doing a little bit of a disservice to mix, like maybe this is a back step to move forward in the future. We'll see, yeah, but um, I think long term, if we can get to a scenario where we have men and women competing on the same court at a maximum effort level. I think that's what makes sport great, right, people are trying their hardest.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think it's a great thing Also right now if you bring men and women together, it's a great thing. The people get connected. I saw my skin winning the Mixed Tablets tournament in the US Open. It was a big thing in Italy. They were following us. We heard the enjoyment of the fans. When I got back it was insane. I think also because we are in the moment that Italy never had so many talents as now as before. We are grateful about also Sinner, because I think the Sinner effect changed everything in Italy for tennis and the sport and people love to watch tennis right now, like they are watching number 90, number 50 at the same time. So it's also doubles, mixed doubles, and I think mixed doubles can bring enjoyment. The fans love it. Also here in the US they love to see doubles.

Speaker 2

I had a nice chat with Eric Butorac a few days ago. I'm also open-minded. I get their point. They want to bring the top singles players on the court, but also because they don't know the doubles players. Right now we don't have any promotion, any marketing, so it's tough to bring the fans someone that they don't know. So they go to see the people, the top players and for me, the tradition Mixed Doubles has should be valued and this way I think it's not the right way, because there are just two days before the tournament really even started and four games, so the matches will be less than one hour. Maybe can can be, can be good for one time, but I don't see, like in the future, how can be successful this format.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I imagine they're gonna continue to experiment and change at all yeah. I don't see a scenario where this is the same format for the next like three.

Partnership with Simone Bolelli

Speaker 2

Also stuff like for one time thing can be good, but you have to see the change in a good way, not just trying things in a big tournament like a Grand Slam Maybe you can try to do with exhibitions but change completely a tournament. You change also the tradition and I don't like to see things in this way. I think the trophy and slam should be valued in a different way. I think my point of view we have a lot of different points of view, so I respect the others, but mine is this one I want to switch to men's doubles for a minute.

Speaker 1

You made the finals in Australia. You and Bolelli have made several deep runs over the last year. What are you taking away from these deep runs in majors? What are you learning? What adjustments are you making from one to the next?

Speaker 2

yeah, you know we have this two year was amazing. I have a great relationship with with bole. It's a friend and before, a partner in the court, and also we have we're having fun on the on the tour. I think the message I'm trying to send to everyone in the tennis sport is that it's nice to have teamwork in a single sport with loneliness, as tennis now. So I think the message we have to send is that there can also be a nice spot for teamwork and for collaboration in tennis and, like that, a great discipline.

Speaker 2

I heard a lot of comments in the last month. I think, as I said, we have different points of views, but we should talk in a different way, not like saying get rid of doubles is not the right way for sure, because you cannot get rid of a discipline and we have to respect the other work, because doubles also bring a lot of work for families, for an environment, because there are not just the doubles players but also the trainers, the coaches, all the families behind. So you have to respect that and I think our three finals changed everything last year with the final in Melbourne. We didn't expect that we were playing a good level, but it was a little bit unexpected. We changed completely our schedule. We had the opportunity to play the thousands. We played the first thousand here in the West, maybe in the semis, and then another final in Roland Garros, and so our level increased a lot. And I think also we played very good with the score, with no killer point in the first set, because I think we were feeling less stressed on the court, because sometimes you change everything with the killer point in one second. We can dig deep, but in a different way.

Speaker 2

Also, this year we played at a great level. We won so many tiebreaks in Melbourne. We were playing very good in the important moments. Also, adelaide helped us because we won against the top teams in doubles Arevalo Pavic in the semis and Kravitz-Puz in the final and that brings a lot of confidence. And it was tough to lose against enough Final against Ljubara Patena brings a lot of confidence. It was tough to lose against a final against Elio Varapate. It was a very close match. I think this one was the closest one we played, so it could have gone good or bad and sometimes you lose. So it was anyway a great moment for us and we keep building.

Speaker 1

What's something you've learned from Bolle? Obviously he's a veteran. He has a men's doubles major title with Fognini. He played with Foggs for a long time. What's something you've learned from him on the doubles court, whether it be something strategic or tactically, or something mentally or emotionally to help improve your doubles game?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think we, as I said, the most important thing is that we have a great relationship and we win and lose together. No, we never had like a fight after a loss and this one is the first thing you can keep building. No, because if you lose and get mad, it's tough. So if we have a good connection outside the court, it's the most important thing. We keep working. Also, our team has a great connection between us, between them and Bolle.

Speaker 2

I had to prove to him that I was also a good player on the outside because we were both playing on the outside. So I played a few tournaments before and he was still playing with Fabio. Then he asked me because Fabio was starting to play more singles and during the season he wasn't supposed to play doubles. So we started to connect in the grass season two years and from there we played together almost all the time and he's very calm on the court. But I'm trying also to. I think it changed a lot playing with me because I'm trying to put a lot of energy on the court and it became more energetic also on the court. So I think this one is changing in a better way. At the same time, I'm more calm, like him, trying to stay, maybe not too much as I am, but trying to have a balance. But the focus of our team is to be always brave on the court, always aggressive and trying to put our game.

Speaker 1

If I had a conversation with him and asked him what has Andrea brought that Fabio did not bring? What do you think he would say?

Speaker 2

I think the energy sometimes.

Speaker 1

The energy.

Speaker 2

Because Fabio is like. We know that he's an amazing player. Fabio is a very casual player. We know that he's an amazing player. I respect him so much also because I saw him playing when I was very young. I was watching them during my process and they were playing so good. It's very nice to also connect with Bolle after many years, but Fabio is so talented. Maybe the only thing Bolle would say is that I bring sometimes more energy than him.

Speaker 1

I want to talk about Italian tennis. You brought it up a little bit. You talked about how you got home from the mixed doubles US Open title and the fans were very warm and welcoming and energetic and happy for you. It seems in general, whether it's singles or doubles, the Italian tennis fans have maybe a bit more passion than we do here in the US. What is your sense of their passion for doubles? How much has doubles played at the club level? And then, how passionate are they about the pro level as well?

Italian Tennis Fan Passion

Speaker 2

I think in Italy we have a great sense of nationality. We follow the results of everyone, also other sports, and when you have success they get very passionate about it. So Sinner for sure brought tennis in the home of everyone because everyone is following him also. During the night in Melbourne they started like got up to see him play, to see him win, and then we won also the two times Davis Cup. So tennis for sure is the second sport in Italy because football is on the top. But we are getting closer now. So it's very nice to see and I mentioned that the mixed doubles. Maybe some years ago maybe they will not follow like that time and right now it was a huge thing. So I'm very grateful for that and I think they are making also a good promotion of the sport.

Speaker 2

As I said also before, the first thing missing in doubles for me right now I also said you in other chats is the promotion and the marketing.

Speaker 2

And you cannot follow a sport in the same way if you don't know the protagonist of the way, if you don't know the protagonist of the sport, if you don't make heroes, if you don't make Also, if you don't bring the highlights, if you don't bring the interviews, the backstage.

Speaker 2

I know it's not an easy thing, because for sure I'm not saying that singles has to be the top level of the sport. That can bring also a good part for our sport, because the sport can always grow in a good way and I think in Italy they did a very good job promoting us from the final of last year. And you can see it's different because when you, when we are walking by rome, we cannot walk during the tournament because, like everyone knows us and in other you know the tournament is normal. They don't know the doubles players and like was was great to see the the stadium packed in the peter angeli during our matches, or seeing also the Davis Cup fans in Bologna or the finals in Turin, in my city it was strange to see so many people watching that match.

Speaker 1

We enjoyed it a lot. It seems like, as you were saying, that I was thinking about one of the things that makes you and. Bolelli work is. You're both from Italy right, yeah.

Speaker 1

So you have a lot of success and then your whole country can get behind you. But we've got all these teams at this tournament that some teams are from the same country, some are not. What are your thoughts on how we get more of that? Because I think it does seem like if we can get more of that, it will help countries get behind doubles a bit more, because they have a country to root for more than just individual players to root for.

Singles and Doubles Balance

Speaker 2

Yeah, for sure. We can think about that. It's tough to we have to encourage that. You cannot force someone to play together because we see so many good teams that are playing so many years together. I'm thinking about Zabai's Ground years. They have good friends, they have the same language. One is from Spain, one is from Argentina, but they are very good friends.

Speaker 2

So you cannot say you have to split up to play for the same nationality, but for sure we have to encourage that because it can bring more fans to the sport, for sure because you are following the same nationality. But we can also do small things like return to the same jersey. I think the same jersey has to bring again for the double score, because seeing two, two guys with completely different outfit or colors it's not uh nice to see. Like it's the first thing that you are keeping the high on same jerseys against same jerseys. It's a nice thing, I think, in doubles. Or maybe also other small thing we can do maybe the name behind the t-shirt, so you, you know, you always know the name of the players, because sometimes you don't know the player like maybe not well recognized, so maybe like stealing something of other sports that are doing well, I don't know.

Speaker 2

Like there are small things we can do, but for sure also seeing more highlights, because we have so many good points in doubles but no one is watching, because it's tough to see doubles. You cannot just watch the 500, 1000 on tennis tv but the 250 are not covered and and we know that the main problem for us is that we are not a united sport, like with Grand Slams, atf, atp. So it's tough to bring one product on the same broadcast and I think it's the main problem right now. Also, for doubles, for sure, it's not covered as single as it should be, because, for sure, singles has to be the priority, but that was less covered. So it's tough to watch the highlights, to watch the backstage. I think we can do a very good product if there will be a team of passionate people behind, and I appreciate your work on Instagram. I know it's not easy. You are alone, so I know it's not easy.

Speaker 1

You are alone, so I know it's tough.

Speaker 2

You can see how sunburned my lips are from sitting outside all day, yeah, but maybe we can build a team behind. That can also bring content. I think we can do also other stuff that maybe singles players can do, because we can do maybe also the talk between the players doing the points, maybe putting a microphone on the bench or putting a microphone with the coach. I think also we can do some stuff different, like another discipline, because I think singles and doubles are two different disciplines, like 100 meters or 200 meters. It's like it's not the same winner most of the time because you have to bring singles right now, with amazing hitters from the baseline, good serves, amazing returns, but luck is not like the past.

Speaker 2

Some players went to the net a lot of times. The courts were faster. I grew up watching Pat Rafters, pete Sampras all these players that were unbelievable from the net, amazing servers. Right now it's not like this. The game has changed and I think that is more the game of the past serving going to the net and it's more like tactical. You have to be well positioned, covering the middle, and I think it's you have to study the game. If you don't know the game, you don't study the game. It's tough to win matches Like. You can win a few matches, but you will not be consistent in a longer period of time.

Speaker 1

Yeah, good points. I want to move to you for a second. Do you have time for two more questions? Yeah, that's okay. So you're still playing some singles as well. Yeah, how do you manage that? What are your plans or goals, kind of going forward, for singles and doubles?

Speaker 2

Yeah, people when they talk to me like they think I'm crazy because I'm playing mostly every week. But last year I had a good connection with Pim Pim Johansson and I also talked to him for suggestions. Sometimes we were good friends and also with my father and my team we were speaking about what I should do Singles, doubles. I think my level of singles has increased a lot from the past two years. Also, doubles helped me a lot because doubles help a lot for the important moments, the key moments. You have to be right there, you have to play good tiebreaks, a lot of tiebreaks, and I think also this year we showed that we were playing very good at this moment.

Speaker 2

And I decided last year to focus more on doubles because my singles ranking all the points I had was at the beginning of the year. And then the opportunity arrived in Rotterdam and I got in last minute and from Qualis I won one round against Felix and lost against Carlos Alcaraz. And then I had this white card coming through in Manama last minute and also there I decided why not? I'm playing playing good, I'm playing good single, so let's try. And also there I played very good matches mid-final. So now I'm still alive in singles. This 130 points saved me, and so I will try to to keep my schedule also for single. Sometimes it's not easy because I'm playing the right now the most important tournaments. Right now my focus is still first on doubles. We have a good way of trying to push for the first spot. It's not easy, but our goal is that, and also to make the finals in Turin. Doubles is first, but singles is still one of the priorities, so I will try to play every time I can.

The Controversial Instagram Post

Speaker 1

So the last question for you. After the news came out about the mixed doubles changes, the US Open, you and your partner who won the US Open last year, sarah Irani, made that post on Instagram. Most of the doubles tour it seemed like, shared it, loved it, commented on it. You got a great reaction. I'll link to it in the show notes for people listening If you didn't read it. One of the quotes was put money above. Tennis is never a good idea.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

What message were you trying to get across when you and Sarah sent that? And actually start with how did you create it? So, did you create it together, one of you? How did you create it? What message were you trying to get across? And then, have you changed your mind on any of the information in that post?

Speaker 2

No, I think my point of view will be always the same, because I think money is important, but it's not the first thing in our sport. You have to put the history and the tradition of the sport above everything, I think, and money comes in the second. And we were speaking a lot, me and Sara, when the news came out and we wanted to share our thoughts. I think we have the same perspective and, also, talking with my sister and his brother, we made this post together, I think also, I appreciate also all the people that commented and shared our post. I think we were saying we were talking also with them and we had also the same point of view with everyone on the double circuit Also, because it can be one thing, but from there you can also go in another perspective in the future.

Speaker 2

It is not uh nice, for from us in that was so I think it's a, it's a one step that we cannot, we couldn't appreciate in this moment, and I met also another one, uh one one one week after, because I think that, as I said also during the podcast, we should change our mind about doubles. Like the teamwork is a nice thing in a single sport like tennis and the promotion and marketing has to change the narrative about singles players that will be more successful if they play doubles is not the right one, because doubles players have other key factors. Right now they study the game and singles players are amazing in the sport they play. But doubles is another discipline. So if Sinner and Alcaraz play doubles, they for sure are very dangerous. They can become number one also in doubles. But other singles player maybe have different skill sets.

Speaker 1

Like Medvedev, for example, probably wouldn't make it to number one in doubles.

Speaker 2

But I don't want to like. I appreciate Danil, he's a great guy, he's an amazing singles player. I also played him in Madrid two years ago, so I don't want to make an example for singles players, but, as I want to say, doubles players are other things that are great for doubles and I think we have to respect that. I think, as I said, there is the 100 meters and 200 meters have two different disciplines and you still take the gold in the Olympics and I think also you have to respect the disciplines that are taking you to a gold in the Olympics, like doubles and mixed doubles are sport for the Olympics. So you cannot say get rid of doubles, like it's something above us and you cannot change.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there's a quote from a. It was a business book that I've read in the past I don't remember which book, but maybe I can find it but it was something like the goal of a business is not to make money. Money is a byproduct of a good business, so the goal of the business is to provide a service or to provide a product, and then money is like gas in the car. Right, you need it, but it's not the point. Right, you need it, but it's not the point. So I think you're right. Putting money above tennis and putting money first is not going to be the long-term solution, right? Yeah, we of course need money to put on all these tournaments, but we shouldn't start there. Yeah, we need to provide entertainment, which?

Speaker 2

is the point of this and the. The money will follow, it will follow, it will follow. But the thing is, for me, the most important thing is to change in the time. It will not be maybe tomorrow, but to change in the time the narrative about doubles.

Speaker 2

And this is going to be a long process and maybe it will not be finished when I finish my career, but for sure in my career I will try to speak and try to keep winning, because if you win, your voice is more listened. But I think it's important and you have to always speak in the right way, always be respectful about everyone, but sometimes you have to speak about it. Awesome, andrea, thank you, have to speak about it.

Speaker 1

Awesome, Andrea. Thank you so much for coming on. This was a lot of fun. Hopefully we'll do it again in the future and hopefully we can continue driving doubles forward.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it will be a pleasure Fight with you. Keep fighting.