Neal Skupski Interview: Partnership with Joe Salisbury, Clay to Grass Transition, & Roland Garros Run

Neal Skupski, the #11 ranked doubles player on the ATP Tour and three-time Wimbledon champion, discusses his partnership with Joe Salisbury, their recent Roland Garros finals run, and more.

I spoke with Neal during his off day in Eastbourne, where he was preparing for the quarterfinals. He and Joe won that match and are now in the semis.

• Working through the chemistry and tactical adjustments of a new partnership
• The significant adjustments required to transition from clay to grass
• Is grass Neal's best surface?
• Having a positive "performer" mentality - a term used by many of the British players and coaches
• What "take it one point at a time" means to Neal, and how he implements that mentality
• Thoughts on the mixed doubles format changes at the US Open

We didn't have time to get to all your Instagram/Twitter questions, but I'll try to get Neal back later this year for more.

Learn more about Neal & follow:

• ATP Profile
• Wikipedia
• Instagram
• Twitter/X

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Transcript

Introduction to Neil Skubbski

Speaker 1 1:15

You're about to hear my conversation with Neil Skubbski. Neil is the number 11 ranked doubles player on the ATP Tour. He has three Wimbledon titles between men's doubles and mixed doubles, and he recently made the finals of Roland Garros. We discussed in this conversation his partnership with Joe Salisbury, a fellow Brit, how they have improved throughout the season. We also talked about the transition from clay to grass, whether he thinks it's his best surface or not. We talked about the run at Roland Garros, specifically about the last three matches where Neil and Joe lost the first set and made adjustments to win the second set in each of those three matches, and then at the end, we talked about the mixed doubles format at the US Open.

Early Season Challenges

Speaker 1 2:05

I tried to get to your Instagram and Twitter questions. Some of them were kind of integrated into my questions as well, but I wasn't able to get to all of them because Neil is a busy guy. He was in Eastbourne still in the tournament, preparing for a quarter final match, so I wanted to respect his time and let him go, but I'll try to get to those next time, so keep them coming with all of these interviews, but without further delay. Enjoyed this short conversation right in the heart of grass court season with Neil Skubbski. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have Roland Garros finalist and three-time Wimbledon champion on Neil Skubbski. Neil welcome.

Speaker 2 2:52

Yeah, thanks for having me on again, Will.

Speaker 1 2:54

Thanks for coming back on. I wanted to dive into Roland Garros. Obviously, you and Joe made the finals a pretty strong tournament and then also talk a little bit about the grass court season. But before we get to that, did you watch the College World Series?

Speaker 2 3:12

I did Well. I watched game two.

Speaker 1 3:14

Okay.

Speaker 2 3:16

Made sure I was watching to see LSU win. So yeah, it was obviously good for LSU and LSU baseball.

Speaker 1 3:24

Yeah, they went through Omaha without dropping a game. I believe it was fun to watch. All right, let's go to tennis. So y'all just made the finals of Roland Garros. You had a pretty strong clay court season, I would say. By like yours and Joe's standards, the first maybe two or three months of the season wasn't the best. What is the difference between Q1 Joe and Neil versus Q2 Joe and Neil? What changed?

Building Partnership and Chemistry

Speaker 2 4:05

Yeah, I mean I don't want to tell you too much. No, I mean, at the start of the season Joe was a little bit ill, so we pulled out of week one and then in week two, still a little bit trying to recover I think had the flu or something, so wasn't the best ideal start to the season and also the year. And then we went to Australia with only one match under our belt and yeah, we obviously we would like to have done a little bit better in Australia, losing in the second round to Goranson and Verbeek, but they were pretty good, they were swinging from the hip and I think they made the semi-finals eventually. So they were running high with a lot of confidence. And then, yeah, we obviously went back, played Davis Cup in Japan, got a good win there, obviously losing the tie, but kind of selfishly, our our doubles, we won our match. That gave us a little bit of confidence moving forward. We went to Dallas, came up against a strong Harrison and King who had blown through qualifying and went through and won Dallas. They played qualifying in Acapulco and won that. They were having a great season, kind of the breakthrough of this partnership of the year.

Speaker 2 5:25

We've slowly built our partnership and I think a lot of people thought we'd do a lot better at the start. But because we know each other, we're both from Britain, we get coached by my brother coaches me, and then actually Louis Kaye with the British system. We've played Davis Cup and Olympics in the past but we've never really hung out together for a long period of time. So things it takes a while to iron things out, get to know Joe a little bit more on and off the court, what he likes to do, and same for him with me. But yeah, it's one of those things it's taking time. Tried to put a lot of work in off the court, kind of on the practice courts at the NTC, and yeah, just trying to get a few things ironed out with, like tactics wise, we were doing a little, probably a few things wrong that we weren't doing in the past. We've had our success. We're trying to try and serve a little bit better, return, make the server play ball three and try and play our game style rather than kind of reacting to what they're doing, just trying to put our game style out there. And I think that's what's happened on the clay courts. And then we've won more matches and yeah, obviously, winning matches gives you confidence and belief. That's what we've got now.

Speaker 2 6:46

Making the French Open final was not a crazy thing, but it's something that we probably weren't thinking about going into the tournament. We'd had a bit of success on the clay, making the final at Barcelona and steadily making, steadily making it through master series, um events, um. But yeah, it was a great two weeks for us. Um, our confidence is quite high at the moment, so we're looking forward to obviously getting to Wimbledon. Um, but we're here at the moment at Eastbourne and trying to get as many matches as we can um on the grass before um the grand slam at Wimbledon.

Speaker 1 7:24

When you're trying to like work through I guess, uh, maybe if you have like a couple of bad tournaments or a bad month or two when you're trying to work through that with a doubles partner. Um, and obviously you don't need to share like specifics on tactics or anything, but how much of the adjustments do you feel like are tactical versus like just building up that kind of team chemistry when it is a new partnership?

Speaker 2 7:51

yeah, I mean, I think chemistry is a massive part of doubles. You can see a lot of guys on the tour. When they're on court together, you can just sense like they're not getting along and there's a little bit off with them. So then you can capitalise on in the match. When you're playing against them or when you're scouting them, you can just tell there's something off. But yeah, I think me and Joe have done a good job of being good performers, being positive, being good communications to each other, trying to be good partners and kind of get each other going.

Speaker 2 8:33

If someone's having a bad day or having a bad kind of service game, just trying to settle them down and getting them going again. And then, once you're a good performer, obviously it just comes down to tennis. Once the tennis, hopefully you can improve the tennis on the practice court. But as long as you you're a good performer day in, day out, putting the work on the practice court in matches, the coaches can't really say too much. They can't say you didn't try. Our performer is always there these days and that's what we kind of didn't have at the start, and then, when the performers are there, technically we're a little bit better. Yeah, we're working hard in practice trying to change from, obviously the clay to the grass. At the moment we tweak a few things here and there. Nothing really changes too much. But the grass is tended to be a quicker surface, a lower bouncing court than clay.

Transitioning From Clay to Grass

Speaker 1 9:38

So yeah, we're working on a few things at the moment, but hopefully we can get that sorted just in time. For the moment, the word performer is something that has been mentioned on the podcast a lot this year, because I've had so many, many of you British uh doubles, players and coaches on, you know are always talking about the performer. I love the, the concept there from I guess Louie came up with it, um, but I love the uh, I love the, the idea behind it, um. So you mentioned the transition, kind of from clay to grass. I wanted to dig a little bit more into that because this is actually something I haven't talked about, I don't think, on the show before. What is that like as a player? I imagine it would be like they seem like the two extremes right, it's much easier to return on clay and probably the most difficult surface to return on is maybe grass. So it would be nice to have maybe a hard court swing in between the two, but you're going from one straight to the other. How do you view that?

Speaker 2 10:36

yeah, I mean clay. I mean the last plate court event is the french open and on a hot day the french conditions can be very quick, but it's different kind of quickness to a grass court. We've gone from playing the French Open final kind of with the roof on at night and then we've gone to Queens and probably the quickest court we've played on all year, maybe the fastest we'll play on. Obviously the girls event was the week before, so the grass is kind of worn down a little bit. There hasn't been any rain the last two weeks for Queen so you can just tell that the grass is a little bit. There's like a brown tint in it. So it's kind of the grass is kind of worn down and it's a little bit not dead grass but it just feels a bit like a just a hard court really.

Speaker 2 11:32

Um, and then you you add in um the serving aspect, where with a clay court the ball bouncing a lot higher and then you come to a queen's where the ball is kind of staying low, skidding through and taking the spin a lot more. So we played, I played two lefties, so I played Zabios in the French Open final and I played Norrie in Queens. It was kind of totally different. It's hard enough to face left-handed anyway, but Norrie kind of using the court to his advantage and kind of not really hitting the serve hard, I would say. But he's been very effective with what he's doing. He's standing a bit further wide, he's cutting across the ball, getting the spin to kind of take it away from me, and it's more difficult because the ball's staying low. So that means I'm having to stretch, kind of hit up, and then Norwich, his partner Fernley, can kind of take a strong position of the net and, yeah, either finish the volley off or put us under a lot of pressure.

Grass Courts and Wimbledon Success

Speaker 2 12:33

So there's, there's a few different aspects from clay to grass, and that changes also when me and Joe are serving as well, I would probably. I tend to kind of serve and stay back, probably 75%, 25% on clay, whereas on a grass court it may be 60-40, 50-50, serve, volley or stay back, just because the court is so quick that the next ball you're going to get is a little bit more defensive from the returner. Or if they do make a good return, it's on you quick and you don't want to really be at the back because it's going to shoot through and then you're under pressure so you want to take the ball out the air, um, and kind of capitalize on a good serve do you feel like?

Speaker 1 13:22

uh, so you have three wimbledon titles between men's and mixed. Do you feel like grass is your best surface?

Speaker 2 13:33

Yeah, I mean people say that I've obviously got my three Grand Slams from Wimbledon. I grew up playing on an artificial grass court at my local club and also when I played in the winters I played on a carpet court indoors, so that's even quicker. So I'm used to kind of low bouncing courts, quick conditions and not really ever playing on the clay court until playing on the pros. So I would say I'm more used to playing on grass compared to some other people around the world. But I feel like I'm enjoying the clay courts more and more. And yeah, I mean I think the. If you had to say which was my favourite surface, I would say grass. But I feel like I'm getting better and better on other surfaces and it's not that much of a difference anymore. But if you ask me what my favourite surface in Torment is but I feel like I'm getting better and better on other surfaces and it's not that much of a difference anymore Um, but my, if you ask me what my favorite surface in torment is, it'd be Wimbledon. Uh, no question.

The Roland Garros Final

Speaker 1 14:36

Sure, yeah, I mean you've made deep runs at uh on all surfaces right At majors. So, um, it's not like a, it doesn't seem like a lopsided uh answer. So I listened to your interview with Dan about a week or two ago and I have to ask about the Roland Garros final and I really liked your answer and kind of your mindset on that point in the third set where Zabias hit that shot around the post, even though it didn't go your way, like a lot of people would have a very negative, kind of I don't know defeatist attitude towards that and you didn't. So if you could just talk us through kind of that point and then what your mindset was when it happened and then how you kind of reset afterwards, yeah, I mean it was an amazing point.

Speaker 2 15:37

Yeah, obviously I probably could have done a little bit better with the volley when I've hit it, when he was kind of like in no man's land, but he's managed to volley it back. It hit the net cord twice. Joe's volleyed it kind of an angle across the court and Zabios kind of read it and he's already kind of running before Joe's hit it and then he's flicked this I guess win around the net post and the sponsor box. It's an incredible shot in that moment being break point down and yeah, it just shows how good doubles can be and it's an amazing spectacle. But yeah, I mean, in that situation a lot of people would be quite annoyed. But yeah, you've got to kind of hand it to him and say great shot and just kind of laugh it off, because it's just one of those things where, um, I just felt maybe the the stars are aligning for them too, because they've had a few difficult times in grand slam finals in the past. Um, but yeah, it didn't mean I'd given up, no matter what. I mean it was 3-0 and then Deuce. Now, so we've still got a great chance of breaking them and yeah, they obviously hold there and what we do me and Joe is we try to kind of take one point at a time. We try and forget what's in the past and just keep plugging away. I mean, there's no way we kind of should have been have any chance of winning the final because how it was going and how they were playing.

Speaker 2 17:18

But after losing the first set 6-0, it was just let's just fight as hard as we can here to try and get back into the match, and that's what we did.

Speaker 2 17:25

And then, obviously, winning that second set 7-6,. The momentum had changed a little bit and we'd gone from thinking this could get embarrassing to being a break-up in the third and we're kind of now favourites during the tournament. So it was quite a quick turnaround from losing to kind of thinking we're going to win. But yeah, we knew it was never going to be over after that first break in the third set because Ronaldo Zabaios obviously had been around the tour for a long time and they weren't going to just give it to us. So the fight was still there and I thought in the end it was a great match to watch for I guess the spectators, but yeah, I think it's just one of those things they come up with the goods when it's needed, and Zabias probably won't play a better shot in his life if you ask them yeah, yeah, when I watched the replay, looking at the angle it, it looked like basically just impossible for you to get that ball back, because it never was more than like two or three inches off the ground.

Speaker 1 18:28

It seemed like so like I don't know. I don't know how you could possibly like hit that ball back in play.

Speaker 2 18:33

Because I read the situation. I knew he was going to run the post. I moved over. But then it was on me so quickly and it was so low to the floor. It was like I didn't know what to do. So I just left it, thinking it might go out, because if I touch it and it was going out then I'd obviously be quite annoyed or upset. So yeah, it was an incredible shot by him. Yeah, too good. Now they're definitely the reason why they won the tournament.

Taking It One Point at Time

Speaker 1 19:04

So just a couple more questions. I know you've got to run. One thing you mentioned is you said me and Joe like to take it one point at a time. That's a phrase that a lot of coaches and players use and tell themselves in tennis. How do you train yourself to do that? I imagine you're better at it now than maybe you were like back in college or as a junior. How do you train yourself to brush aside a point that you lose or a game or a set, and really literally take it one point at a time?

Speaker 2 19:41

Yeah, I think that's what I said earlier about the performer coming in. You don't really take it at one point at a time, you forget about what's happened already in the match and you don't look too far ahead. You don't look anywhere past the point that you're about to play. You can obviously look back and think about tactics and how you wanted to play, but the emotional side you don't really want to think about that moving forward. Because if you get emotional on the court and it can only hinder your performance. You can obviously be emotional with good positive energy to try and show your opponents that you're in the match and to help your partner out in tough times.

Speaker 2 20:22

But trying to stay one point at a time is only going to be benefit to you. Even if you're down in the match say you're maybe in a tie breaking, you're six, three down, it's match point to them. But if you take one point at a time or a love 40 in the service game, you should have the confidence to kind of think if it's love 40, I'm serving, I'm still the one that's, um, I'm the. I'm going to say I am the favourite for this point. So if you think like that, you serve, you win that point at 1540, you're still favourite for the next point.

Speaker 2 21:03

So if you keep thinking about them kind of small, you start like segments of the game, then it's only going to help you and thinking too far ahead there's no reason to think too far ahead because this point hasn't even happened yet. So that's what we kind of tend to do, is try and have good performers, think about one point at a time. And yeah, I think Louis always says to kind of if you're behind, if you're behind in the match to um, play to win. If you are, if the score is the same, then you act like you're winning and if you're winning, then extend the lead. So that's what kind of hopefully I got that right. You'll probably listen to this podcast and tell me I'm wrong, but he, uh he says something along those lines okay, I'll, I'll have him.

Making Adjustments Mid-Match

Speaker 1 21:59

Uh, shoot me a message and correct it if it's incorrect. Um, all right, two more questions here. Uh, the last three matches at rolling garers, y'all lost the first set and won the second. Um, I'm curious, your kind of process for resetting after losing the first set. Um the quarters and semis it was a 7-6 set. The finals was it was 6-0. So very different things, um, but what is your process for resetting after the first set and what? How do you think about making adjustments after losing a first set?

Speaker 2 22:36

Yeah, I think in the quarters against Evden Piers they were obviously probably still confident from knowing that they won the Olympic gold at Roland Garros the year before. So we knew it was going to be a tough match. But we played. I think we played a good first set against them guys and we knew that there was only a few points in it Maybe we were the better team and we lost. So we kind of just thought we don't have to change too much, we just need to execute a little bit better in the next, kind of in the next set. And I think we kind of broke early on in that second set.

Speaker 2 23:15

It was a very difficult day that day. It was quite windy and then we could tell by the way Piers was serving. I think he picked up a little bit of an injury in his elbow and then I think he's still out now. So we knew that if we just kept on going and plugging away then we would get looks on his service game, which we did. And then the third set was more comfortable than the other two sets.

Speaker 2 23:41

And then playing the semi-final against Harrison King, we knew that was going to be a massive match. They'd beaten us a couple times before. I think the last time it was in Madrid where they beat us quite comfortably. So we scouted them really well for the French and yeah, we knew what we wanted to do in that match and yeah, it was obviously a close first set again. But we spoke at the change of ends after the set Don't really have to change too much. It's more about execution and we had to go to battle with these two guys because they bring good energy and they're always kind of ready to play, and then in the end it came down to a max tie break to 10 points in the third set and basically it was just who wanted it more and who could kind of keep their head and that's what we showed. We came up with big shots and I think that experience showed at the very end, um, and then obviously the third.

Speaker 2 24:40

The third match was the final which we lost. But, um, the six love set. It was more like they had played up very well in that set. We didn't play as they kind of dominated it and you could just tell they wanted to kind of win, not win more than us, but there's a bit of steel and grit in the way they were playing. So I took a toilet break, just kind of sat myself down a little bit. We came out and yeah, we just kind of fight as much as we can. Not really do too much technically differently. We just execute and see where it got us and um, yeah, it got us in a good position, um, but we just couldn't get over the line okay.

Speaker 1 25:22

Yeah, it sounds like not a ton of like tactical adjustments, more just focusing on executing slightly better and, uh, just bringing that performer.

Speaker 2 25:33

Yeah, the performer was definitely quarterfinal and semi and then a couple of technical changes against the Vars-Granoles Maybe which way we switch on when we have an eye formation, because they were liking one shot more than the other. We'd play them in Rome, maybe before, more quite comfortably. You can just tell they had watched that match and done kind of the opposite to what we were kind of expecting, because when you win, when you beat somebody a couple of weeks earlier, you're not going to change too much. When the person that lost will probably change it up. Yeah, it's going to be probably the same outcome outcome. So it was one of those things where they changed it up. It came off for them. And then, uh, we had to kind of speak at the after the first set to kind of, um, we spoke saying like they're doing a little bit different to what we were expecting, uh, and kind of change it a little bit. Yeah awesome.

US Open Mixed Doubles Format

Speaker 1 26:37

Yeah, that's what I love about doubles. It's like a, like a chess match. Um, last question for you uh, we had a bunch actually from instagram and twitter, but we can get to these another day. Um, from tennis pig and lisa lisa hd. Uh, what do you think of the mixed format at the US Open and will you enter or have you entered?

Speaker 2 27:01

I haven't entered. I think we got an email today actually asking for entries. I think it closes on the 28th of July. I think it is the US Open. Yeah, I'll have to speak to Desiree if she wants to enter.

Speaker 2 27:19

From the looks of the entries already it looks like there's not much of a chance of playing, unless they wanted to give us a wild card. But I think Arani and Babassori should at least get their chance of kind of defending their title. I mean it looks like a great line-up who's going to play. But it's yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out when it comes about during the qualifying week, kind of taking away one of the weeks obviously Winston-Salem. But yeah, it's a little bit disappointing that we don't have the chance to kind of play mixed doubles at the Grand Slam this year, the US Open for all the doubles players.

Speaker 2 28:05

I understand why the US Open want to do it. They obviously want to get more eyes on mixed doubles. They probably thought it was kind of not an exhibition event, but I feel like this is more of an exhibition event now. But there's big money involved and the singles girls and guys want to play it. So yeah, we'll see how it all pans out when the week before the US Open starts. Just hopefully in the future, like more and more doubles, guys or girls get the opportunity to play um in that event yeah, I'm sure we'll continue to see changes over the years, so hopefully that is the case.

Speaker 1 28:50

Um, awesome, neil, thanks a ton for hopping on. I appreciate the time. No, no thanks for having me on.