Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Olivia Nicholls Interview: Journey to WTA Top 25, Highs & Lows of the Season, & Mixed Doubles

• Will Boucek • Episode 243

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World #23 Olivia Nicholls joins us fresh off her first title with partner Tereza Mihalíková in Berlin. She discusses her career-high ranking, steady rise in doubles, and shares insights on overcoming challenges throughout her career journey.

  • Defeating Roland Garros Champs, Errani and Paolini, in Berlin, breaking their 13-match win streak, including tactical adjustments
  • On developing a belief in her game to beat any team
  • Overcoming four consecutive first-round losses during the clay season
  • Working with coach Craig Veal (previous podcast guest)
  • 2025 goals and the WTA Finals
  • Mixed doubles success with Henry Patten, making semifinals in Australia and quarterfinals at Roland Garros
  • Thoughts on the US Open mixed doubles changes that prioritize singles rankings

Olivia's dedication and work ethic are super impressive, and she shows how consistency pays off. Watch her this week at Wimbledon and throughout the rest of 2025.

Learn more about Olivia & follow:

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Introduction to Olivia Nichols

Speaker 1

You're about to hear my conversation with world number 23 , olivia Nichols . Olivia is at a career-high ranking on the WTA doubles tour . She is number seven in the race to the year-end finals with her partner , teresa Mihailikova , and they're coming off their first title in Berlin . I actually messed that up at the beginning of the episode , which was kind of funny and you will hear shortly . They beat Jasmine Paolini and Sarah Arani in the finals in Berlin . We talked about that match . We talked about Olivia's career overall , what she attributes her steady increase in rankings to . She has steadily climbed the ranks for pretty much the last five years , so it's been really impressive . So you're going to hear about her journey there .

Speaker 1

We talk about this season , her season with Teresa . So obviously they won in Berlin , but they've also had some kind of lower points and difficult matches this season and that's one of the coolest parts of this conversation in my mind . A lot of times I'm having people on the podcast who recently won a title , which Olivia did . So we're talking about the highs and the kind of the best parts of doubles , but we dive a little bit into some of the low points of the season . For we dive a little bit into some of the low points of the season for her and Teresa and how they stuck together , especially when so a few months ago , goals for 2025 , mixed doubles , us Open mixed doubles and a lot more . So this is a really fun conversation to get to know Olivia a bit and learn about her partnership with Teresa and her season and career so far . So , without further delay , enjoy my conversation with Olivia Nichols . Hey everyone , welcome to the show . Today we have Olivia Nichols on Olivia welcome .

Speaker 2

Thanks for having me on .

Speaker 1

Thanks for coming on . We've been trying to set this up for a little while . It's been , I think , february 2024 . You were last on when we chatted with you and Olivia Gadecki down in Austin , and a lot has changed for you since then , so this will be good to give everyone an update . You're up to a career high number 23 . You're number seven in the race with your partner , teresa , and you just came off the win , uh at Queens last week . Um , talk about , uh , the week last week , and then I want to get into kind of the finals match specifically , but , um , how did ? How was the week overall ? What clicked ? What worked so well for you ?

Speaker 1

yeah , I mean Berlin , not Queens , I know you just yeah , I was just chatting yeah , I was just chatting with julian cash . Who who won queens last week ? And I mean I wish we won queens , but berlin um , no , yeah

Berlin Title and Beating Paolini-Errani

Speaker 1

, it was um an amazing week .

Speaker 2

Um , I think we just managed to bring , yeah , some of our best level into every match that we played , actually , and um , yeah , we beat a lot of good teams . I think three out of the four teams we beat were ahead of us in the race . So , yeah , we , um we really managed to to bring our best tennis last week and , um , I think it was long overdue winning our first title together . So we , we were both absolutely thrilled to get that one in the bag .

Speaker 1

So you beat Sarah Irani and Jasmine Paolini in the finals .

Speaker 1

You lost the first set and then won 6-2 , 10-6 . In the tiebreaker I was trying to figure out how many matches in a row they had won . I think I counted 13 in a row . So you broke their 13-match win streak . To me they're a team . You kind of know what you're going to get . Arani is obviously the better net player . Paolini is obviously the better baseline player . How did you all approach that match ? You don't have to get into like specific server return patterns or whatever , but how do you beat a team like that ? How did y'all handle that ?

Speaker 2

I mean , first of all , I think it favored us massively that we were playing on grass rather than , let's say , clay . They're an amazing team on the clay . They , as you say , they know exactly how they're going to play and they just managed to execute that very well . But going into that match , playing on playing on the grass , I think favored us because it meant that we could get to the wall much more so we could get two up . Um , we would serve , serve and volley pretty much every point which is more difficult to do on clay . So , yeah , I guess the biggest tactic was was to try and get two up as much as possible . We know that our strengths lie at the net and we know that Paolini , as you say , is a world-class , top five singles player , so we don't want to be having too many baseline exchanges with her . So , yeah , I think that was the key .

Speaker 2

Intent was key . I think we served great in that match and then , second set , we really started to get some good hits on return to give ourselves the opportunity to move forward and get to the net . So , yeah , I think , overall , even though we lost that first set , I don't think there was a lot in it and it was maybe just 4% or 5% difference in intent and execution that ultimately cost us that first set and even though we were a breakdown in the second , I felt like as soon as we could just flick that switch and manage to get the first hit in and make those changes , we really felt like we had a chance of beating them , despite their 13-match winning streak .

Speaker 1

How do you approach Arani's service game specifically ? Because they use a lot of tactics to try to hold her serve because it's the weaker of the two serves and they're , you know , going to be better with Jasmine back at the baseline and then Sarah up at net . So that's just a tougher game for them . This isn't you know . I try not to dive too deep into the tactics because I know people don't want to like be sharing their secrets and stuff on here , but I don't feel like that , like that's not something that anybody would argue with . So how did you approach that kind of mentally and tactically ?

Speaker 2

I mean , I think on grass , um , her serve actually comes through reasonably well , to be honest with you . And okay , I think on the clay they would sometimes do two back on on her serve , which they didn't do on the grass . Well , they didn't do that against us . Anyway , they would use eye formation , um , but yeah , it actually was coming through pretty well . So I wouldn't say it was like a big thing that we had to deal with . It was more about just focusing on the intent of that return and then trying to trying to follow it in was was the was the key , to be honest with you , um , but yeah , they , they know what . They know what they're doing . They've got some good , good plays that they run to put them into their strong positions , shall we say so , um , so yeah , but overall I think we managed to counteract it well so I want to the point .

Speaker 1

You're at now , top 25 in the world . Um , what kind of talk about the journey a little bit . What kind of kept you going and what led to the kind of consistent progress and rankings jumps and getting to where you are today ?

Speaker 2

I mean , I'd certainly describe myself as a bit of a late bloomer . I'm 30 years old now , at career high , you know . So things didn't happen straight away for me , but I think there was , there were a few reasons for that . Obviously , I went , went to university , um , so didn't actually start on the pro tour till I was 22 , 23 um , and then there was , uh , I had shoulder surgery which set me back a little bit , and then when I started to come back , there was covid . So there were quite a few obstacles for me that meant I couldn't really push on um . But then , once I got past that um and had a bit more consistency of playing on the tour regularly , I was able to

The Journey to World #23

Speaker 2

kind of steadily um improve my ranking and , yeah , in the last couple of years I've obviously managed to to keep climbing , keep climbing and , yeah , very , very grateful and fortunate to find myself in the position that I'm in now what is something that you're better at now than you were , say , five years ago , or maybe maybe three years ago 2022 ?

Speaker 2

um , I think probably the biggest one is belief , I'd say . I mean , I had a lot of belief in my ability three years ago to get to where I am now . But , you know , when you're getting put on the court for the first time with bigger names , shall we say , I don't think I'd step on and and believe that I could beat everyone that I believe I can beat . Now you know , as you said , we're , I don't know , seven or eight in the race and you don't get to that point without having the belief that you can beat every , every player or every team that's in front of you . Um , so I think that alone gives you , gives you , the best chance to beat anyone in front of you , and I think obviously that comes with experience and confidence and playing well , um , but yeah , it's good to be in a position now where , um , alongside Teresa , I feel like we're in a position where we can beat any of the best teams in the world how does that like manifest itself on the court ?

Speaker 1

so like if in 2022 , you played someone who was like a bigger name , like you said in quotes um , you want to win . You're you know , you're warming up and you're going to try your best , but it sounds like you maybe lacked a little bit of belief , I guess . But what did that ? What did that mean on the court ? Did that mean like you just didn't play the the big points quite as well , or you made had some like lapses and decision making what ? What kind of led to to maybe losing a match like that ?

Speaker 2

um , I think I mean , probably at the time , just pure level , um , and I think again , it kind of goes hand in hand when you improve and then you get more confidence and then you start beating a few names and then you're pushing your ranking up and it kind of all just leads one to another . So I'd say at that time I didn't have the experience at that level , or maybe even the respect of the opponents , to be able to get anywhere near competing with the top , top names , whereas when you start getting those wins under your belt and you're playing the same partner week in , week out , you're going further in slams . You're , you know , doing all of these things . You , you really start to believe in yourself and I think that was one huge thing for us .

Speaker 2

Winning Berlin was even though we probably believed that we could go far in slams . You know even why not win a slam until you've actually won a title at 250 , 500 , whatever . Then it's tough to deep down , really , really believe that you can do that . But I think now that we've got that under our belt , you know , cross the line against three or four good teams in one week , it's like okay , what's the next step ? And again , why can't we go all the way ?

Speaker 1

Yeah , I like that answer . So I want to talk about the season kind of overall . Y'all made the finals at Indian Wells obviously just won in Berlin . We talked about the win . I see in my now I'm seeing in my notes here I wrote Queen's win . That's why I said that .

Speaker 2

That's funny , I wish .

Speaker 1

So yeah , so we talked about the win in Berlin , winning that final . There's been some highlights for this season , but I also want to talk about some of like , maybe the lower points , when y'all didn't do as well . After Indian Wells , you won your first round , then lost second round in Miami , and then you had four consecutive round one exits . Talk about how you got through that , how you stayed together , especially in a season where it does seem like so many teams are very quick to kind of split yeah , that's .

Speaker 2

It's a really good point and something that I think is good to talk about . Um , I mean , I have to say , you know , first of I think we were unlucky with our draws . I know it's a classic comment , but it's not easy when you're playing Suey , ostapenko , first round of Madrid-Rome , two tournaments I'd never played before . It was our first clay court swing and probably weren't the names that we wanted to see in front of our , you know , first round draw for both those tournaments . So , yeah , it was tough . I'll be completely honest and say you know it's tough and when you lose three or four weeks in a row , it does start to weigh you down a little bit . But what I will say is and we even spoke about it between us , us , me and Teresa it was like at no point did we feel like the vibe was changing , that we were , um going away from each other . Um , I think we're really fortunate

Overcoming Consecutive Losses

Speaker 2

that we're both similar in terms of our work ethic , um , how we go about analyzing the opponents , you know , maximizing ourselves and , to be honest , in that in that period we just used it to to learn a lot . Um , we , we learned how we could be , be a better team and and do better on the clay ? Um , because , for sure , our game style is well suited to hard and grass with our net game , you know , using eye , using eye formation , crossing , etc .

Speaker 2

But we had to figure out a different way to win matches on clay and I felt like by the end of the clay swing we managed to do that because we had a decent run at Roland Garros and actually we were one point away from making quarters and who knows from there on .

Speaker 2

So , yeah , I mean we were very lucky that we've got a great team around us as well Amazing coach in Craig Veal who stuck by us the whole year through that difficult period . We went off to a 125 one of those weeks and kind of committed to that being a training week , even though we were going to play a match there . But we were going to put a good training weekend together on the clay week , even though we were going to play a match there . But we were going to put a good training weekend together on the clay and um . And yeah , you know , I feel like , um , if we're going to be playing again over the clay swing next year , that we'll be much better prepared for it , because we know that we can play . You know a few different things tactically that we can do to play well on the clay and we'll be much more well-prepared to do it .

Speaker 1

How do you learn from a loss ? So I watched the Roland Garros match . Y'all were up a set and probably had it in the second set , and then things kind of went downhill . How do you learn from something like that ? And then how do you recover from it to win a title a few weeks later ?

Speaker 2

I mean , obviously , you know there's immediate disappointment after that match , huge disappointment . We were one point away from our first slam quarterfinal , which would be another nice box to tick off , one point away from our first slam quarterfinal , which would be another nice box to tick off . But how we spoke about it was that you know how we played those games , those points Like if you come away from those matches and you don't have any regrets , then I feel like it's much easier to get over the losses than if you were coming away from it . Why didn't I do this ? Why didn't I do that ? I served for it at 5-3 , I think , and actually served a really good game .

Speaker 2

The girls we were playing , I have to say , in those few games just decided to have a good old swing . They cleaned a few lines , you know , and I didn't feel like I could have done this . Why didn't I do that ? I felt like I did everything in my power to win the match and it just wasn't quite enough . And then in the third set , you know , they kind of gained momentum . I actually got hit in the hand and it was difficult to recover from that .

Speaker 2

So it wasn't in particular that match that I came away from thinking , oh , what can I learn massively from that ? So , um , so it wasn't in particular that match that I came away from thinking , oh , what can I learn massively from that match ? Because I wouldn't have actually changed anything . It's more just about how can you quickly , um , almost put it behind you and just get back to work , um , get ready for the tactical adjustments you're going to make for the grass season and then just go again , because actually our games were in a great place at that moment and it was more going to be about how quickly can you put behind the disappointment of that loss and move on to getting ready for your favorite surface and favorite time of year to be playing together again .

Speaker 1

You mentioned your team and , uh , craig , who we actually had on the podcast a few months ago . Um , what is the most important lesson you've learned from craig ?

Speaker 2

that is a great question , because I've learned a lot of amazing things from him . I mean , I think the one thing that he's constantly drilling into us is that if you keep doing the right things , you keep working hard , you stick together , eventually you will be rewarded . And whether that comes next week , whether that comes in four weeks time , it will come and I think , um , it's been proven with with our results . You know , um , yeah , a slightly difficult start to the clay swing , but we kept sticking together , kept

Training for Wimbledon

Speaker 2

putting the work in doing the right thing , applying ourselves , learning , and eventually we were rewarded . And then you know , same immediately .

Speaker 2

We didn't have a great first match on the grass , don't get me wrong . It wasn't bad , but it was particularly disappointing for me losing at home . I wanted to do well in Queens and we lost first round . But again , it's just like you go back to work , you , you do what you need to do . You in Queens and we lost first round .

Speaker 2

But again , it's just like you go back to work , you , you do what you need to do , you think about how you can improve and and make the adjustments you need to make from from the clay to the grass , and then you will be rewarded and I think to have that consistency in the team , um , you know , amazing coaching . Craig , my partnera is is just a great girl and her boyfriend travels full-time with us as well and he's a he's an amazing person to have on the team as well , you know . So , if you just keep surrounding yourself with those good people and keep putting in the good work , eventually you will be rewarded . And , um , I think we all buy into that now and , yes , it's shown with some of the results we've been having .

Speaker 1

What does the week look like this week , as you kind of train for Wimbledon ? In Hamburg you all lost first round , you all played like the day after your finals or maybe two days after , which I imagine is not super easy , and then you have some time off before Wimbledon . What is ? What is your training kind of look like ? Do you train really intensely at the beginning and then kind of ease up a little bit as you get closer to Wimbledon or talk a little bit about the specifics ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , I mean pretty much , as you've just said , it was a very full on week in Berlin and we didn't have much of a turnaround for Bad Homburg and I think , just all of the kind of emotional highs and lows that came that week . You know it was important to have a couple of days off , which we've both done , but then from tomorrow we'll be back to it Most of the time we train together . So I think we'll probably do two hours Friday , saturday , and then from Sunday , monday , tuesday , it will start to be a little less hour , maybe maximum hour and a half on Monday , tuesday , ready for a Wednesday start . But yeah , most of the time we're training together . Teresa's going to do an extra hour with Craig tomorrow . She probably plays a little bit more than I do because she likes to do a lot more like , let's say , hitting and drilling , whereas I'm a bit more about the specifics and that kind of thing .

Speaker 1

So yeah , we'll just pretty much get straight back to it after a little reset and um look forward to getting started on Wednesday at Wimbledon so the two hours or hour and a half of training that's on court , um would talk a little bit about everything that you'll have to do off the court to also prepare for a grand slam . I imagine you're in the gym some , um , maybe you're getting like massages . Talk about some of those other things .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I mean , I think you know how it is like a lot of people underestimate , um what a full day looks like for tennis players . Um , we're constantly trying to manage our bodies to be in the best state to perform . So , yeah , definitely entails um doing fitness , uh seeing the physios getting massage , um recovery , all of these kind of things um . So , yeah , I think most of the time when you're in tournament tournament mode , you're just trying to keep everything ticking over and just preparing yourself in the best way possible .

Speaker 1

Yeah , there's not much more to it than that yeah , um , so I want to move on to , uh , mixed doubles . But actually , before I do um , do you have any specific goals for this year ? Um , either individually or as a team um , yeah , we want to make riad .

Speaker 2

That's , that's the goal .

Speaker 2

We're in the race . We've spoken about it since the start of the year . I think we started last year in Hurtogamosh , so the start of the grass season , played the rest of the year and finished , I don't know , maybe between 12 and 15 or something like that , but had a good run , had some good results and you know , there's not that many teams that are playing together , sticking together . Um , so I , yeah , we both feel like it's a , it's an attainable goal . Um , so , yeah , everything we're doing right now is basically based around giving ourselves the best shot of of making the end of year finals . Uh , that's , that's , that's the big goal .

Speaker 2

Obviously , one of them was to tick off , was to to win our first title together , which we did last week . Um , but other than that I mean I don't put too many numbers , rankings that I want to hit this kind of thing on it because I feel like it kind of comes hand in hand with . You know , if you do all the right things , then the results will come and and those those goals and achievements will will also come . So I don't like to put too many outcome goals on it , but one of them is to make the end of your finals yeah , it seems like every player is different .

Speaker 1

Like I talk to some players who have like specific criteria that they're trying to hit by the end of the year , whether it's a ranking or whatever it may be , and then other players are like no , I just focus really a lot on the process of improving and I know if I just focus on that then the results will come . So it seems like it's maybe just a little bit different for everybody .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I mean I'm certainly more in the bracket of the process and not knowing how many points I need here and how many wins I need there to move here I know some people are very much that way inclined . That doesn't motivate me at all . I'd much rather focus on , match by match , just doing what I need to do to win , and then maybe I'll check the rankings at the end of the tournament , kind of thing . Nothing , nothing more than that .

Speaker 1

Talk about mixed doubles a little bit . So you've played with Henry Patton several times now . Y'all made the semis in Australia . You made the quarters in Paris at the French Open and I think y'all pulled out of that match for some reason . Maybe you can share why , but it seems like y'all are playing really well . Do you feel like you're ready for a run at Wimbledon as well ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , why not ? Yeah , I mean , I think it's a unique story because me and Henry have known each other for so many years . Um , he's from the same part of the UK as me , we're both from the east coast , so we kind of grew up playing the same tournaments , um , you know , not the highest level tournaments , but in in our area , um , and then both went off to university and then kind of have had similar paths since , you know , went down the doubles route .

Mixed Doubles with Henry Patten

Speaker 2

Obviously , he's gone on to achieve incredible things , you know , winning two Grand Slams . But yeah , we've kind of had , you know , slightly similar pathways . And and , yeah , I think because of that and having known each other from such a young age , I feel so comfortable when I walk onto the court with him in mixed doubles . He's also just such a lovely person . I think it just makes me feel so comfortable when I play with him that it really enables me to play some of my best tennis . So , yeah , it's always a real pleasure to play mixed with him .

Speaker 2

Roland Garros this year was unfortunate . Yeah , it's always a real pleasure to play mixed with him . Roland Garros this year was unfortunate , actually , because I felt like we were playing really well in the mixed . And then , as I mentioned earlier , I got hit in the hand in our ladies' doubles third round and basically couldn't take any chances with that before . The grass season had quite bad bruising and swelling and I needed to take a bit of time to let that calm down before I got back on court and got playing again , so it was a shame we had to pull out . Um , but yeah , really looking forward to playing with with him again at Wimbledon this year what do you change tactically and mixed ?

Speaker 1

obviously Henry , uh is um hits a bigger serve than Teresa . He can probably cover a bit more court . So things change a little bit when you're playing mixed . What ? What do you have to change about your game ?

Speaker 2

um , I mean , yeah , obviously , henry , henry does quite a lot of it . He serves amazing , he covers a lot of the court , a lot of the net , so that's hugely helpful . I would say obviously . I just completely let him run the show , he just tells me where to serve , what to do . So that's kind of nice .

Speaker 2

I don't have to think in that respect , I just kind of do as I'm told . And then I mean I guess the obvious one is um , maybe in normal circumstances on the ladies doubles court , you know you would , you would volley to a certain spot or hit to a certain spot , but you probably do end up going to the girl more , even if it's the wrong shot on paper to go for , just because the men are obviously um so skillful and so powerful that , yeah , it's actually counterintuitive to play the shots that you'd normally play in ladies' doubles . You have to go more to the girl than if it's going to be on the guy's side . So I would say that's the biggest adjustment and that's kind of common knowledge across the whole of mixed doubles I think .

Speaker 1

Sure . So a couple of questions from Twitter , From Twitter I don't know how to say this name . Treelock Karki asked do doubles players like the mixed event at the US Open ? So I guess , share your thoughts on the US Open mixed changes .

Speaker 2

I think , asking myself that's probably an obvious answer , isn't it ? Um , I think it's a real shame that you know great doubles players aren't going to get the opportunity to play an event that they they should be able to qualify themselves for . You know it is doubles . We can't get into singles off our doubles rankings , so why should the double mixed doubles be done on singles ranking ? It doesn't make sense . Um , it feels purely to me like an exhibition event and it's taking away from the history and prestige of the us open mixed doubles . So , um , my thoughts are on it are that it's a real shame and I highly doubt I will be participating because of it , unfortunately , uh , tennis pig from twitter asked um

US Open Mixed Changes and Wimbledon Pressure

Speaker 2

and I actually just asked this to Julian about an hour ago .

Speaker 1

Uh , do you feel added pressure or more relaxed as a Brit playing Wimbledon ?

Speaker 2

Wimbledon . Um , it's a great question . Um , definitely not more relaxed , but I also wouldn't say more pressure . Um , I think naturally you want to do well at Wimbledon because it's your home slam , um , but I mean I just try and treat it like every other match . Um , obviously you've got friends and family there supporting , but they also are fully aware of you . Know you've got friends and family there supporting , but they also are fully aware of you . Know you've got to go through your routines and everything as if it was a normal tournament , as if you were playing in Monterey . You know you've got to go through everything just as you normally would . So I feel generally quite comfortable playing at Wimbledon and I wouldn't say I feel more pressure . I think maybe because it's doubles and I'm playing with a foreign partner , it kind of takes the pressure off a little bit more . I see it from a singles point of view because the spotlight's on them much more , but as a doubles player I wouldn't say I feel any added pressure , only what I'd be putting on myself .

Speaker 1

Sure , what can we do to make doubles more popular ? So this would be for WTA , atp and mix .

Speaker 2

It's a really good question . Is it not already quite popular ?

Speaker 1

Well , what can we do to make it more popular ?

Speaker 2

Maybe even following when there's new teams starting up , when there's teams breaking up . Make it a bit more in the modern times and feel like you have a bit of a story behind each team so you actually have an interest of . Oh , that girl was playing with her last week and they've just split up and now they're playing against each other . All that could be entertaining . Maybe just trying to follow the stories a bit more , I would say , rather than it just popping up now and again that so-and-so is playing so-and-so in a doubles final and you don't know who they are .

Speaker 1

So I think if you can get to know the players a little bit more , then that would probably help yeah , yeah , I've had some conversations with I think it was with a coach who talked about how good of a reality TV show the partnership drama could be . On the WTA side , specifically , that could just be like I don't know , really really good TV because they are , you're like splitting and then they played against each other and a lot of kind of behind the scenes drama that TV is known for , I guess .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I mean , why not Anything to make it more entertaining and more watchable ?

Speaker 1

Yeah , a hundred percent . Awesome , olivia . Thanks a ton for coming on and good luck at Wimbledon .

Speaker 2

Thanks Will , good to speak to you .