Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Member AMA: Beating Unconventional Players, Shot Selection vs the Lob, & Weak Partners

• Will Boucek • Episode 246

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This is a free preview of a Tennis Tribe member episode. To hear the full episode, become a member at thetennistribe.com/memberships.

In this episode, I answer three questions from Tennis Tribe members and followers.

  • FREE: How to beat unconventional or unorthodox players.
  • Why there is no "right way" to hit a tennis ball.
  • Topspin can be overrated.
  • Members: All the options you have when the opponent hits a lob, and when to use each.
  • One of the most underpracticed shots for club players (it's not the overhead).
  • Members: How to win with a super weak partner and hold their serve.
  • and more...

Members can access the full episode through this page.

New York City Events during the US Open

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Introduction to Member Episodes

Speaker 1

Welcome to a free preview of a member episode of the Doubles Only Tennis Podcast. I'm your host, will Bocek. To access this episode in full, you'll need to become a Tennis Tribe. Member Members get access to premium podcast episodes like this one weekly video, doubles lessons, strategy courses, monthly webinars, gear discounts and a lot more. Learn more and sign up at vtennistribecom slash memberships and here's your free preview of this episode.

Speaker 1

Welcome to the first member episode of the podcast. So let me explain what these are, why I'm doing them and how they're going to work. So these member episodes are going to be strategy-focused episodes. I'm going to do deep dives into specific topics or I'm going to do AMA episodes, kind of like this one today, where members ask me questions and I answer them here on the podcast. Today I'm going to cover three different topics. It's going to be how to win against unconventional players, shot selection choices against the lobber and how to win with a super weak partner. So today, for example, members are going to get access to all three of those lessons. You're going to get the full podcast episode. You should have already received instructions via email on how to download the member feed for the podcast. If you listen to the free podcast, you will still get a free preview on all of these episodes, so you're going to get access to the first of those three lessons today. If you want to get access to all three, you have to become a member. To do that, go to thetennistribecom slash memberships and you can sign up for any membership level and you will get access to this full episode.

Speaker 1

So why am I doing this? For a long time, I've talked about how I do not want to have ads on the podcast and I'm continuing to be able to do that for now, and this is another way to continue to support the podcast without having advertisements. I don't have ads on the podcast. I don't have ads on my website. I just don't really like ads and I prefer to provide you value for your money. So that's why this is going to, that's why I'm doing this and that's why this will be an added benefit for my current Tennis Tribe members and future members if you do decide to join. So hopefully that makes sense. But even if you don't want to join, you'll still get a lot out of these member episodes and I'm still going to have tons of free episodes that are not member-only episodes. I think I'll probably just release one to maybe three of these per month going forward. So don't feel like you're going to see some dramatic change in the podcast. This is just a small added benefit for paying Tennis Tribe members.

Speaker 1

Before I get to the lessons, a couple of quick announcements. The New York Doubles Camp is filling up. There are a few spots left. You can go to thetennistribecom slash camp to learn more about it. It's August 30th and 31st, which is Saturday and Sunday of Labor Day weekend. I'm going to cover a lot of new drills. I'm going to do a few things on court that I've never done before with students. That I've never done before with students. So it's going to be a lot of fun and my goal with that is to really help you fully understand your game as it is today and then also understand what drills and shots and tactics you need to practice to continue developing your game going forward. So it's going to be very tailored and personalized and it should be a ton of fun.

Winning Against Unconventional Players

Speaker 1

The second thing is the rally trip. I'll link to that in the show notes. That is September 2nd through 4th, where you get to spend some time with me at the US Open. You get to play some tennis. You get to listen to a strategy presentation during one of our hotel happy hours as well, so it's going to be a fun opportunity to hang out, watch some doubles, learn some doubles and enjoy the US Open. So let's dive into these three lessons. Lesson number one again. This is going to be free for everyone, so you get to listen to this full lesson. And then two and three are for members only. So this was from Instagram. Somebody messaged me a few weeks ago. I'm going to pull it up here and read it directly. This is part of what they sent me.

Speaker 1

So this person said I can't seem to hit against club level players. They don't hit conventional shots most of the time. They all have certain shots they use. It works for them, but it's not the way you hit in a rally. Yes, I like rallies. I don't want to get worn out with 10-shot rallies every point, but so many players just use these shots right away I can't figure out how to play against them. They make me play their game and I want to be the one dictating the point. And because I've been taught proper form which allows for rallies and waiting for an opportunity, I'm having a hard time against these unconventional players.

Speaker 1

So that's kind of a long-winded way of saying that this person, it sounds like, is playing against people who maybe hit a lot of slice shots or hit the ball really flat or maybe they lob a lot. They don't hit your proper technique, topspin, rally ball from the baseline, and this particular player is really struggling to win matches against these type of players. They went on to tell me that they do lessons a couple times a week with their hitting pro. They practice their proper form, their top spin shots. This is something I hear a lot and there was a few things that I said to this person that I wanted to share here. This person never replied, actually, so I guess they didn't necessarily like what I said, but I'm going to share it with you and add a little bit of context.

Speaker 1

So number one is to stop practicing long rallies. The average rally length in a doubles match is around four. Even if you're a 3-5 player and you feel like you have a ton of long points where people are lobbying back and forth for every one of those, I promise you there are two or three points where someone double faults or misses a return and that just brings that average rally length down. So you'll have a more efficient practice if you spend more time practicing your serves, your returns. Your serve plus one volley, your return plus one shot. Working on that rather than just hitting endless rallies from the baseline is going to pay bigger dividends.

Speaker 1

Number two, and this is kind of a mindset lesson stop worrying so much about form and technique. I told this person it sounds like you're too focused on form and technique. There's no right way to hit whatever works to win. So this is something I had a conversation with Pete about from Crunch Time Coaching a couple months ago in Atlanta, and it's a problem that tennis has and a lot of us have been kind of brainwashed into it. We think that there's a proper way to hit a tennis ball. There are more efficient and less efficient ways to hit a tennis ball, sure, depending on the type of ball you're getting, but there's no right way to do it. There are some players on the pro tour who have a one-handed backhand. Some have a two-handed backhand. Francis Tiafoe has a strange-looking take back on his forehand, but it's effective. It's totally different than the take back that Carlos Alcaraz has, or a lot of other players on the tour. So there's no right way to do it and a lot of us are so focused on form and technique and hitting topspin and hitting a good rally ball and being able to hit 10 in a row that we forget that a lot of the unconventional ways win matches. And again, this is a problem that tennis has that pickleball actually doesn't.

Stop Focusing on Perfect Form

Speaker 1

Yet this might be the first time I've mentioned pickleball on the podcast. So pickleball when you go out and watch people play pickleball, you don't see people judging each other for their technique, right? You don't see, or at least I don't. I don't play a ton of pickleball, but you don't see people saying like, oh, your technique's wrong, people trying to correct each other for not hitting with topspin or whatever it is. People just play and they figure it out, and in tennis you can do that too and you can get a long way with it. You can get up to 4.0, probably 4.5 level, maybe even 5.0. I've played some 5.0 players who do not have conventional strokes and it seems to work okay for them. So there's no right way to hit, so we don't need to worry so much about form and technique.

Speaker 1

The next thing is to develop a slice shot. When you play these unconventional players. A lot of the time they hit with weird spin. It might be kind of a flat knuckleball, it might be a side spin shot, it might have some slice on it. But if you can hit a defensive or neutral slice shot, especially when the ball stays low and is below the height of the net, then you'll be able to kind of neutralize any of those awkward shots and really more than anything make sure you don't miss them.

Speaker 1

It's really hard to hit topspin off of a ball that skids through the court, that stays below the height of the net. If you're a 3-5 or 4-0 player or below, it just becomes very difficult. So topspin this is the fourth thing here topspin isn't really necessary for winning in doubles. So this player has their teaching pro teaching them the right form and the right technique and how to hit with a good topspin, and in their hitting lessons they look great and they're able to hit 20 or 30 balls in a row from the baseline with topspin, which is awesome. And then they get out to the court and they play against this unconventional player and you can't really hit topspin off some of those awkward balls because player. And you can't really hit topspin off some of those awkward balls because it's a lot more difficult and topspin honestly isn't necessary for winning in doubles. If you watch a lot of the best doubles players in the world, shaisu Wade doesn't really hit with a lot of topspin. She hits a flat ball.

Speaker 1

I could probably beat most 4-5 teams, certainly any 4-0 team, with only a continental grip and hitting with zero top spin. You really don't need top spin to win in doubles. So this player who's practicing hitting with top spin all day and hitting all these rally balls, I would actually tell them next time you have a lesson with your coach, have your coach quit feeding you so many topspin rally balls. Have them feed you a bunch of junk balls.

Speaker 1

A few days ago I was meeting with a private client and they said that they didn't know what to do with their serve plus one shot against teams who hit a weak lob return. So I hit a serve at the deuce court. The lob comes down the line, it's not super deep, it lands maybe just past the service line and it's what should be an offensive shot for me. And they said they have trouble, they're not sure what to do with that ball. And I asked them how often do you practice hitting that ball with that ball. And I asked them how often do you practice hitting that ball? And they said no, I've never practiced it. So have a ball machine. Have your coach feed you some of these junk balls, some of these nothing balls that you feel like you should be crushing, but maybe you miss or maybe you just hit a soft one back because you're not sure what to do with it. Practice these and you'll continue to get better at them.

Preview Conclusion and Member Invitation

Speaker 1

Set up targets. Typically, if you're hitting a ball from that area of the court, I would go to a big target in either corner or deep middle and work on hitting against these junk style players, these unconventional players. So there was a lot there. Part of that's mindset, part of that is practice. I mean, it's two different things. Right, we have to respect the unconventional player a bit more, and then we have to work on practicing against unconventional shots a bit more and quit relying on our own need to have this perfect technique in terms of a topspin forehand and a topspin backhand. So next let's move on to shot selection choices against the lobber. Thank you for listening to the free preview of this member episode. If you want to listen to this episode in its entirety. You'll want to become a Tennis Tribe member. Members get access to not only premium podcast episodes like this one, but also weekly video, doubles lessons, a monthly doubles strategy, webinar courses, ebooks, gear discounts and a lot more. Go to thetennistribecom slash memberships to learn all about the membership benefits and sign up.