Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Sem Verbeek Interview: Positivity, From College to Pro, Mixed Doubles, & More

• Will Boucek • Episode 269

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 55:11

Sem Verbeek is the #36 doubles player on the ATP Tour. He made the Australian Open semifinals and won the Wimbledon Mixed Doubles Title in 2025. As a result, Sem has been nominated for Amsterdam athlete of the year. Vote for Sem here.

I love watching Sem for his positive energy on the court, and that's where we began this conversation. We trace Sem's path from Amsterdam to Grand Slam runs, focusing on the mindset, structure, and choices that turned steady progress into breakthroughs. The conversation blends practical tactics with mental principles that you can use for yourself

  • Where Sem's infectious positive energy comes from
  • College at Pacific and his four-year growth plan
  • The importance of urgency, scheduling choices, and his Miami run
  • His "hunting" mindset during the 2025 Australian Open semifinal run
  • Wimbledon mixed title with Siniakova and team chemistry
  • Off-season redesign with functional training and neurology
  • Simple routines, mantras, and visualizations
  • Vision for doubles: longer partnerships, better fan stories

My favorite podcast interviews are when the guest makes me think more deeply about different topics, and Sem did not fall short. Be sure to watch him on the ATP Tour in 2026!

Links:

Learn more about Sem & follow:

-----

**Join the #1 Doubles Strategy Newsletter for Club Tennis Players** 


**Become a Tennis Tribe Member**
Tennis Tribe Members get access to premium video lessons, a monthly member-only webinar, doubles strategy Ebooks & Courses, exclusive discounts on tennis gear, and more.


**Other Free Doubles Content**

Setting The Stage And Tim’s Mindset

SPEAKER_01

And then from there we talked about the off-season. He talked about how this season, or this off-season was a little bit different than seasons in the past. And throughout the conversation, he really discussed his mindset a lot, and he talked about how he approaches his improvement because he does have a story of improvement consistent steady work that has led to really a breakthrough the last couple of years for him. At the end, we discussed changes that he would and would not like to see on the Pro Doubles Tour, and then we talked briefly about his nomination for Amsterdam Athlete of the Year, which again I'm going to link to in the show notes, and you could vote for because it is a great way to support TEM and really support doubles players anytime they are nominated for awards like this. So without further delay, enjoy this really fun, wide-ranging conversation with Tim Verbeek. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have Tim Verbeek on. Tim, welcome.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. It's nice to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I appreciate you coming on. So I want to talk about your 2025. We're recording this on December 29th, so we're almost to the new year. But before we discuss the run in Australia and the run at Wimbledon and just your year overall, I wanted to start with a kind of simpler question. Where does your positive energy come from?

SPEAKER_00

I've been blessed with a positive mindset for a while. Thankfully, I'm enjoying life. I get to do what I love to do. And I've I've noticed, at least for my tennis, I also play my best when I can be relaxed and upbeat. So it helps uh also that I'm playing doubles. So I have a little bit of responsibility to be positive towards my uh towards my partner. And it's nice that that will um that translates to better tennis for me as well.

SPEAKER_01

Do you have uh parents that kind of instilled that in you, or is it something you you've just always been that way or you've trained and worked at? Give me a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's um it's definitely something I've trained. Um you know, I I went to IMG when I was younger. Um so I stayed there for three years. And I think during that time they just started doing a better job about training your your mental headspace, but also the way you communicate, not only with yourself, but with others. Um I would say I'm a mix of my parents. I think my uh my dad is a little bit more maybe glass half empty, but my mom is definitely glass all the way full. Um feeling a little bit more towards my mom's side. Um but yeah, it's it's it's something of a little bit of a journey that I went through. It's not, you know, we all all have negative thoughts, we all have negative energy at times. Um but I think as I've gotten older and and as gained more experience, especially professionally, um knowing that I'm gonna play better tennis when I'm relaxed, um, you know, why not go for the strategy that makes you play the best? Um so it became it doesn't feel not authentic. Like it, I'm I'm lucky that it feels like me. And it's I would say I'm generally an upbeat person in life. Um so I don't feel like I have to fake anything, which is nice. Um, but yeah, it is also a strategy and and something that I've worked on with breathing, with mantras, with visualization, um, the whole uh the whole thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, I think we could dive deep into that topic. It's something I'm very interested in, but maybe maybe for another episode. Um so I want to step back. We mentioned your parents. Talk about your story. How did you get started in tennis? I know you played college at Pacific, and then now you're uh a top 50 doubles player in the world.

College Tennis And The Four‑Year Plan

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I would say I started comparatively, maybe a little bit later. I was 10 when I started picking up a racket. Um, I grew up in Amsterdam, so I played soccer um from a young age and uh really enjoyed that. Um and was playing, I think, like six or seven times a week, even at that age, when um my mom was playing recreationally tennis at that time. And sometimes after school or after my soccer practice, I would have to go to the club with her, and she would play an hour with some friends, and you know, I got a little bit more interested and started picking up my own racket, and um then I had a ton of energy when I was younger, so I immediately wanted to go into uh into that sport as well. Um so they signed me up uh at uh our local club for uh a lesson once a week, and that quickly turned into three times a week. Um, and then it was really around the age of 12, I was going on to what we call high school in the Netherlands. Um, so the school load was gonna go up. Um, I was gonna get homework, and that was really the time when my parents also kind of sat me down and said, Hey, you know, I I know you want to play more tennis, but you're also playing football six games a week. Um, so maybe it's better to choose because you're not gonna be able to do both at the at the intensity that you want. Um in hindsight, maybe it's good that I chose tennis. Um it was really the at the age of 12 that uh that tennis became my main sport, and I quickly grew to to like it even more than I already did. Um so I started practicing more and then I wanted to go on a summer tennis camp. I think it was 2008 when I was 14, and my family wanted to go see the US as well. So we actually combined the two and um I was at IMG Bolotaries for two weeks. Um and at the end of those two weeks um some coaches and and directors at IMG sat down with my dad and and told them that they would love to have me at least for a semester or a year. Um and thankfully he gave me the choice. He he never forced me into anything. And I originally said no, I it's too scary. I was, you know, I was 14 years old, I would have to move away from home. And um, but I remember on the last day of um admissions when it was still possible, we we did send an email that I was gonna come for a few months. And I always had a little backstop, you know, if I could try it for a few months, and if I didn't like it, I'd always come back home. Um, but that few months became three and a half years. Um so and then I I kind of rolled naturally into the college prep system. Um at that age, I was I was never the best junior, was never preparing for any sort of professional life after that. Um you know, I always was instilled to me by my parents that uh school was also important. Um I wanted to get good grades and I also enjoyed learning also from a young age. So school wasn't that difficult in the sense that I didn't feel like a sacrifice to put time into it. Um so it was really an an awesome place for me. I could I could do half a day of studying and half a day either in the gym or on the court. Um yeah, then when I graduated high school, again, I I was in no position to have any sort of professional dreams. Um, you know, I maybe I think I had one ITF point or something. Um and I I I struggled even uh to get IMG to record a college video for me, I remember. Um so I was I was originally um supposed to go to uh Boston University, um, but you know, fate had it that I had to get uh a hip surgery. I tore my labrum when I was uh 17. So I was out for about nine months. Um Boston pulled their uh their offer. So I started that whole process over again and then came to uh University of the Pacific. Um, you know, Ryan Redondo, who was the coach at that time, uh, he was genuinely the only one that that responded to my emails inquiring about maybe a walk-out spawn um or walk-on spot on their team. Um so by dad and I went went over there, um, took an unofficial visit, and he was like, Yeah, you're tall and the lefty, so we could we could maybe use you for uh for some doubles or something. Um, but had the best time there too. Um, four years, um, got the degree that I wanted. Ryan and I um really got like a father and son relationship and and everything that entails. Like he uh he was so good for my tennis, but also really for my personal development and uh so much so that we still kept in touch. Um and then it was not until my junior year in college, um I was out for a few months um when the realization came that that next year, my senior year, was going to be my last year of tennis if I didn't have any ambitions after school. And that's when for both for Ryan and for me, we sat down and said that doesn't quite feel right. We both felt like there was a lot more left in the tank, especially to learn. Um so I really made the decision at that point to uh to try it out after. You know, I was I was starting to beat some people in college that were that were getting futures results. Um, I was starting to get ranked in in college, so things looked a little bit more hopeful than let's say the first two years. Um, and then my final year in college was also my best one. Um, I think also with the liberation knowing that I was gonna keep playing, I think that that helped me a lot. But it also gave me um it instilled a sense of professionalism, where it's like, okay, if I'm gonna be doing this for my career, I've I've got to take it seriously as well. Um, and that turned out turned out great. We had a really great senior year. Um and then I actually really enjoyed the four-year process that you have in college, going from a freshman to a senior. And I I had gotten advice from people that said, hey, you're you know, you know, you've got to be starting at the the bottom of the ladder. And you know, you may win a lot of matches in your first year, but you might not get a whole lot of points just because you have to go through qualities every time. So instead of giving myself one year, I I kind of applied that same transformation to my professional career. So I developed a four-year plan in collaboration with uh Ryan and also with my parents, who've been very, really helpful in getting my career started as well. Um and yeah, last year was the um the second four-year cycle. So I started traveling in 2017. Um, and then COVID hit in 2020, so I extended that first four-year cycle by one year. And it was my goal to either be top 100 in singles or in doubles by the end of that four-year cycle. Um, and I got to 104, so I didn't quite make it in doubles. Um, but there was enough perspective for uh for my parents and also for my current coach, Jacob Meyer, and for me to say, hey, let's let's keep trying this for another four years. Um and for a while I was actually looking like it was the same trajectory, you know, I was I was playing challengers, I was kind of in the band between 100 and 120 for a while. And I remember saying to myself, you know, if I'm in the year that I turned 30, which was last year, 2024, if I'm still playing challengers full-time and I'm not getting into the slams and you know, I it's not financially viable, then I think I have enough things outside of the court that I could pursue that I still also want to do. And it was kind of that same urgency at that point where everything started going quite rapidly. Um, you know, I had a good start of a year last year, and then the miracle in Miami, um, where I got in as an alternate and and won a couple of rounds. And then suddenly things started going really quickly after that with you know this year as uh the best year so far. So it's it's been quite a ride.

SPEAKER_01

So I've got a lot of follow-up questions there. Um let me go back from where we are now. Uh so I I like this idea of this four-year process. I I think you're the first person that's at least explained something like that. I feel like a lot of people either graduate college or whenever they do term pro, they just kind of grind without a necessarily plan or milestones. Um and I think that could be super helpful to to any aspiring professionals listening. Uh but when you got to the end of that four years in 2021, and then several years after that, you continued to not make it to the majors. You stayed around 100 to 120 or and you told yourself that you might have to go do something else or at that point. Did you change anything that helped get you into that top hundred and get you into the slams? Or what do you feel like changed about your game or your preparation or your training or your mindset? Anything come to mind?

Breaking Through: Urgency And Miami

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's a good question. Um I think that the first thing that comes to mind was just the sense of urgency that I had. Um, you know, at the start of that four-year cycle, um, I remember vividly at the end of my freshman year in college, you know, the seniors did a speech and they said, Oh, you know, it's gonna go by so fast, and make sure you do what you need to do. And as a freshman, you hear that and you're like, Yeah, right. I just I just finished my first year. What are you talking about? And then you snap your fingers and suddenly you're the one that gives that senior speech. And I think that was really that same kind of realization in in the beginning of 2024, where I was like, hey, you know, you can't do this forever, it's it's gonna stop at one point. Um so I I think it was, I don't think I changed anything physically or or in my preparation, but I think that sense of urgency helped me make uh some choices that I wouldn't have made, let's say, um, in years prior, whether it be uh playing different tournaments um just because you give yourself a better shot at getting a better result, um, you know, playing up or down depending on the schedule, uh, going to places I'd never been before, um, you know, cutting out some some other distractions. Um, you know, I was lucky at that point I also had um a good partner for uh a few months to get the the year started. Um and then you know, Miami, the way that happened was was quite nuts because I I made the alternate spot by quite literally 20 seconds to spare. Um otherwise I would have been defaulted and I got a zero. And I think that the Miami story really helped, you know, beating uh McTech and Koolhoff in the second round. Um, I think that also, you know, tying back to your first couple of questions, that that helped me also realize that that that ready-go attitude of of being fun and being free. I had that exact same attitude in in that match. So that kind of sunk in with me, like, okay, you know, you can play at an elite level while still really enjoying the process and having fun. Um, and then I I got a regular partner at the the summer of 2024. Um, and you know, we played for about 18 months or so, and that also really helps, you know, when you're in that band of 100 to 120, um you're you're basically just trying to get into the biggest tournament you can just for the the points wise. And it was really in that summer, or kind of in in May, I think it was, where um Andre Gorenson and I decided to start our partnership and you know go into it for the long term. That also helped me helped me settle. Um so yeah, I I like that sense of urgency. Um, I always feel like there's kind of two camps in in professional sports where you have one school of thought that thinks you know, sport should be your savior, and and that's why let's say sometimes the the Eastern Europeans are so good because they're coming from nothing and they only have tennis to make it, and you know, it's uh over my dead body attitude. And then on the other side of that spectrum, you have the school of thought that says, you know, if you if you diversify your um your attention and and the things you want to learn, then sport can really be a vehicle to to help you express yourself, but you know, you also have options to to back out, and sometimes people like that freedom. And I kind of swung in between that that pendulum. And you know, thankfully, my family has never been in a position where I needed to be the provider with my tennis, like quite the quite the opposite. But I do I think that the choice I had to pull myself a little bit more towards that side of the spectrum where it's like, hey, if you really want to do this, then you've got to treat it as urgently as as we say you do. Um, and I think that just kind of unlocked the sense of not haste, but I think there was much more focus on every practice matters and every result matters, rather than oh, I have a few years left to do what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. Yeah, I I feel like that worked not just in tennis, but in other areas of life. Like people are known to procrastinate certain things. Not that you're procrastinating, but like deadlines work, right? And it creates like that sense of urgency in you if you have a limited amount of time and you recognize that you just you just kind of figure things out um at a certain point. Uh at what point did you know you were going to focus on doubles?

SPEAKER_00

It kind of happened naturally. Um, I started working with my current coach, Jacob Meyer, back in 2018. Um, and I was still playing both at that point. And he was the one who really introduced the mindset shift in me, um, where he said, you know, the the futures are are good, but your your level will increase if you just pull yourself out and go to a a more professional environment. And my doubles ranking at that point um was allowing me to get into, let's say, the bigger futures and some challengers. So here was the one that said, use your use your doubles to get into the challengers. Also, so you can train with with guys that are at that level, you get more accustomed to just a more professional lifestyle. And that's not to dig on anybody who's playing futures. But there is a big chunk of futures players that, you know, quite frankly are not going to make it. And it's very easy to get sucked into kind of that mindset or that jungle of like, you know, we're we're all from uh from different places. But you know, when you spend your time maybe around the wrong crowd in the futures, it's easy to not get yourself out of that jungle, as I call it. So he started taking me also to some uh 250s where he was working with uh other players, and he just kind of had me along for the ride also to to introduce that mindset shift. Um, and that's when I noticed my my level also was starting to increase. Um, so even though I was still playing singles, um, I was starting to to opt more for challengers and and go for the bigger tournaments. So naturally, what you know, your your rankings go um not in an opposite direction, but my doubles ranking went up way faster than my singles ranking. Um and then, you know, the as you must know, the the rankings split in I think it was 2019. Um and I had gotten all of my points from singles points from futures at that point. So I think I went from like 700 to not having any points. I had like the transition tour points or whatever they call this. Um so then my doubles ranking was thankfully still allowing me to to play challengers, and I got into a few uh qualifyings and actually got up to a career high. I think it was like five something. Um, and then thankfully for tennis, you know, they reversed that decision. For me, my singles career, if you want to call it that, unfortunately, that that put me back at like 900 or something or a thousand because they they added everybody who was playing futures, and rightly so. Like I'm I'm completely in support of that decision. Uh so that made the the ranking gap between my my doubles and my singles just too big. Um and I I could notice that I was actually starting to get some challenger resorts and doubles. Um so that just kind of became the path for me to to make a living and to make a career out of tennis rather than trying to go back and and play features at that point.

SPEAKER_01

So I want to transition to uh this year. So you started the year in Australia, like you're about to next year. Uh and you make you make the the semifinals of the Australian Open uh with your partner uh Andre Gorenson. And this was, I believe, your fourth career major. Is that right? You had never played the Australian Open before.

SPEAKER_00

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

Talk about uh what went right during those two weeks and what was kind of going through your head. How was that experience kind of overall for you?

Choosing Doubles And Moving Up

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's um so we actually we started in Canberra playing a challenger um that first week and we lost first round. And you know, talking about that sense of urgency, I think we we had a little bit of a mindset, oh well, you know, we'll go play a challenger so we can get a few matches and and feel good. And we woke up hard from that dream, that's for sure. Um but I I think it um you know, credit to Andre for also saying that. In in years prior for him, he would make the the final of uh a big challenger, then play at 250 the week before Melbourne, maybe win a round um and then get to Melbourne, and then maybe win the match. And and you know, the past few seasons for him that kind of felt the same. So he really took that first round last at a challenger this year on the chin and said, Okay, good. I'm I'm getting a wake-up call to not do the same thing as Australia's in the years past. And so that kind of shifted our mindset to say, okay, we we cannot just ride momentum or or think we're we're better than anybody. Um so we made it a pact to ourselves and also in combination with Jacob to say, okay, we're really going after it. Like we have to be the ones going after it and not playing it safe. So we go to Adelaide, we we win around, and then we have a very uh close loss to uh the Germans, Charit and Put. So things started clicking a little bit more, but then I think the the biggest mindset shift um came in Australia in in a practice um where we were talking about strategy and and Andre was talking a little bit about I'm not sure if I should poach as much as I am, or you know, I don't want to feel like I'm messing up my side or anything like that. And we introduced the concept of hunting um in that practice, where we said to each other, look, we you've got to hunt for these balls. Like you, you know, we've got to feel like we're we're tigers ready to let loose. And that really became the mantra for those two weeks. Um, you know, from the very first ball of the first round, we said, you know, we gotta go hunt. There's no other way, you know, because we we had proven to ourselves in the two weeks prior, is like if we don't hunt, we're gonna be the ones that are are being hunted. And I think that was that was really cool to to notice in those, especially in the earlier rounds. Um, where it's like, wait, if if we hunt and if if we do this consistently over two sets, we're gonna be really, really tough to be. Um and you know that that proved right. Um I think there was also something to be said about it being my first. I didn't have any expectations, everything was kind of new. So you go into it also with that fresh mindset of like, oh, this is cool. I've never been here, I've never played on this course. And um I think that combination was still with the focus of let's let's hunt as a team. Um, you know, we were crushing people. It was like it really wasn't close. It was just kind of awesome to realize. Um, you know, beating that number one team in the world in the in the quarters. Um and and you know, the semis, we we still play great. Um, we just came up a little bit short, but I think it gave us that feeling of okay, we can be legit one of the best teams in the world if and only if we're the guys that are going after it and we're the guys that are hunting. So that really was the the mindset that we wanted to take into the rest of the season, also after Australia.

SPEAKER_01

What does this hunting look like? Can you can you define it a little bit more? It sounds like it's maybe started out as the net player hunting for the poach. Uh yeah, I think that was look different for the baseline player or serving or returning.

Australian Open Semifinal And “Hunting”

SPEAKER_00

I think it's um it's applicable in all areas of the game, uh, for doubles at least. Um, but you're right in in that it started with if you're a net player and and guys are rallying, you you gotta want that ball, whether you you attract it to a down-the-line shot or you you go and you pote, but you want to be the one that that takes this ball. And that's really, I think, the the mindset that you can also um jump into the serve or the return. You know, when you're serving, it's like, hey, I'm I'm hunting for that spot, I'm hunting for this exact serve. Or when when you're returning, you're like, it doesn't matter if it's coming here or not. I'm I'm I'm hunting to swing on that ball, and and I'm gonna basically shove it down your throat when it comes back at you. Um and that that kind of just grew into you know a positive trigger for us, you know, when sometimes you have mantras or a little cues or trigger words that you can tell yourself um that is gonna evoke a feeling of in intention and excitement, and that really became it for us. Um and that's basically all Jacob had to say on the side as well, after after every point, like just go hunt, just keep hunting, just keep hunting. Because it's really um a mindset of going after it. Um, you know, swinging, especially also on the return. And instead of trying to make it, it's like, hey, just swing for your target. Um and it also made us realize, I think, in a on a deeper level, the difference between what I consider good mistakes um and quote unquote bad mistakes. You know, we were we were still making plenty of mistakes, but there were mistakes with intention. You know, we were we were going after our shots. Um and usually when that happens, you also get control over the match. Um, and I think I'm I'm a player and I know Andre is as well, but lights having control over the match. Um so yeah, it it looks like poaching, it looks like going for your serve, it looks like swinging on the return. Um, and whatever your strategy is, is committing to that with with an aggressive mindset.

SPEAKER_01

That's cool. Yeah, I I think a lot of teams or players might like struggle with an identity from time to time. And it sounds like that kind of became your team identity. And it uh I think it helps even if like maybe there's a slightly more optimal team identity, like to just commit to something can help in a lot of scenarios rather than just kind of waffling back and forth between, you know, are we gonna play more defensive or offensive, or we're gonna be aggressive or you know, whatever it may be. So it sounds like that that really worked well for y'all.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it was it was also really a a framework in which we could operate. And I think that that discipline of of saying, okay, whatever strategy we choose, but we have this this box of hunting that has got to fit in, then you actually have quite a lot of freedom to try out different strategies as long as you commit to, like you said, your identity or your team values or or whatever you want to feel like. Um and that's what I would recommend to to anybody who is playing at whatever level. You know, it you don't have to be, let's say, a serving vollier or um a defensive baseliner or whatever. Just figure out, like you said, what your identity is is going to be. And you know, what worked for us was saying, even if we lose a match, can we look ourselves in the mirror and say, yeah, I played the way I wanted to play? And that's gonna look different for everybody, but you know, the hunting part looked for us. So that's exactly right what you said.

SPEAKER_01

So I want to move on to Wimbledon. Uh, you won the Wimbledon title with Katerina Tidiaqueva, who, despite being one of the best women's doubles players of all time, she doesn't have a ton of mixed doubles success historically, um, at least relative to her women's double success. Um, but you all won the Wimbledon title. Talk about how the partnership came about and then what it was like to A, just play with such a legend and then B, what those two weeks were like.

Defining The Hunting Identity

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um it was this was her first mixed grand slam as well that she won. Um, so it was cool to be on that side of history with her. Um but yeah, we so we briefly got introduced to each other by a common friend in Australia. Um you know, I I had never been to Australia, and suddenly you're making the end of a second week, so it's all a little bit more relaxed, it's a little bit more chill. Um, and she basically wins every double tournament she plays. So she was still there. She's always there. Yeah, exactly. Um, so it was uh we got introduced, and and our common friend jokingly said, like, oh, I hope you guys played mixed doubles at one point. And I was like, haha, yeah, sure. Um but anyway, then um in in the French, I was able to play um mixed for the first time, um, lost first round, but um there was uh another girl who was coming back from an injury that um I'm relatively close with, Louisa Stefani. And basically we had said at the French to each other, okay, let's let's try to play Wimbledon together, how cool would that be? And like, yeah, yeah, let's do it, let's do it. Um, but our rankings coming into Wimbledon, um, were we were gonna be borderline getting into the mix because the mix usually has a cutoff of like 60, sometimes a little bit stronger, sometimes a little bit weaker. But anyway, she she was saying beforehand already, you know, let's let's commit to signing in. However, if there is someone with a higher ranking than you that I can guarantee myself an entry with, I'm going to do that. But basically, up until the last night before the the deadline, I get a text from her saying, hey, I'm so sorry to have to do this, but Joe Salisbury just asked me, you know, he's 10 or 15 in the role, whatever he was, so I'm gonna do this. But here's the list of names of of girls that usually sign in but haven't yet. And Katerina was on that list. So I asked that common friend of uh that in Australia, I asked her for Caterita's number, and I just texted her, like, hey, I'm I'm gonna regret it if I don't ask it, but is there any chance that maybe you want to play mixed? And you know, she had just won um her first round in in singles, uh, beating the fifth seed, and she was playing Osaka in the second round. And she said, like, hey, uh, thanks for asking. I I'm not so sure because if I'm, you know, if I win this next match against Osaka, then you know, I have singles, doubles, and mixed, and that may be a bit too much. Um, how would you feel if you know if I have to pull out of mixed, let's say in the second round, if we make it? And I was like, hey, you know, if you make the fourth round in singles, I'm not gonna be the one that tells you you gotta stick to your mix, you know. Like, let's let's be real about the dynamic here. Um so then she said, okay, let's let's do it, let's do it. So I signed in literally the morning of um the deadline. I signed in with her, and um then we saw that we drew the number one seed right away. So I was like, oh great, great. Um but yeah, we um we stepped on court for the first time with each other in our warm-up. Um, I had never spoken to her before or or hit a ball with her, but um, you know, coming back to that that positive attitude or that cheerful attitude, I think that became instrumental also for these two weeks, but already for that first match, because I I was well aware of the dynamic of like, hey, um not that she's doing me a favor in that sense, but you know, I'm the one asking her and she still has other commitments as well. At that point, I was out of men's doubles um already. So it was basically like an extension of my tournament. So I try to make it as light as possible for her. Uh, because if I'm going in there and um, you know, playing the number one seeds and playing with, like you said, a doubles legend. If I'm then like getting tight or not being aggressive or getting down on myself, she's gonna be like, What did I sign up for? What am I doing? Um, so we played a really good first match, um, ended up winning. Um, and then, you know, we she was still like I said, she was still in the tournament in in singles and in mixed. Unfortunately, she's the last that match against Osaka. Um, but yeah, then we just kind of kept kept doing what we were doing and uh was able to get to know her a little bit better. And she's she's really she's really sweet. Like she's a killer on the court, but she has a very good heart. Um but yeah, we were we were the underdog basically in in every match, not on her side, but on the men's side, because we were playing guys in the in the top ten basically every round. And it really wasn't until the quarters where we played a um a wild card team where I noticed that her mindset shifted a little bit to okay, this is where all the underdogs and we're just playing well, to hey, now we're the overwhelming favorites to win this match. So it it became a little bit of a different dynamic on court as well, also for her. Um, like I was able to not reach her um as well in as the previous round. Um, but we we stuck to it. Um, and eventually, you know, she she showed her class also in in that match. And at that point, we were both like, oh wait, like this this can actually do something here. Um and then we uh we ended up winning that semis. And you know, suddenly you're uh you're in a grand slam final in that sense. Um, but I think we played our best match on center court. Um, and it was just pure joy from from the moment we stepped on court to her smash at the on the last point. Um and I think we both also said it in our in our speech. It's like it it just was a lot of fun. You know, we we clicked tennis-wise also. Um, but I think it was very good for both of us to uh to smile. And it was fun to hear the commentators throughout the the tournament saying, like, you know, Sam is always smiling, but now thankfully Katarina is also starting to laugh and have a good time. And um so I'm I'm glad I had that positive influence. But it was a yeah, a dream week and a half, really.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I remember watching and thinking that the same thing, like, oh, like you're such a good fit for her because she she is so fiery and and can get down on herself at times, right? So she needs somebody who's positive. And since you are like almost joking around on the court a lot, but still smiling and taking it seriously, it it seemed like a good fit and obviously it worked out. And what's funny that you didn't mention is you faced Luisa Stefani in the final.

Wimbledon Mixed Title With Siniaková

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's right. Yeah, we um as soon as they won that match, I was like, oh man, this is full circle. I mean, I was gonna be I was gonna be happy for either one of us because I mean she's also a great person coming back from multiple injuries. Um but it was it was cool to to show on that stage that having fun and enjoying yourself can lead to great tennis. And I feel like for a lot of people watching, sometimes they feel like you know, you know, you're not taking it seriously. You know, you're almost joking around, like you said. And I I understand that it can look like that. Um, but trust me, on the inside, you're you're present, you're you know what you have to do. And I think it's a it's a balancing act as well. And and for some people it works. You know, for me, obviously it works. And and other people have to be a little bit more, you know, like John McEnroe, where they they have to get that fire and they have to get that um that frustration almost to to get that passion out. Um so I'd I'd I would just like to say that both can work. There's not a one-size-fit-all uh strategy when it comes to how you uh develop your mindset and that and how you approach matches.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. Yeah, and it seems like those two, I guess the opposites, if you'd call them that, sometimes make the best teams, right? So one person can lift the other one up, and the other person can make sure the other one doesn't, you know, get too up or down or emotional. So it it can uh it can create a good pairing. Um will you team up with Katerina again this year?

SPEAKER_00

I hope so. Okay um no, I've I've told her, you know, I'd I'd I'm happy to play anytime she wants. Um I understand her her schedule limitations because she is um she had a really good end of the year in singles as well. So she's gonna be playing doubles and singles. Um, but I'll I'll be asking her the moment I land in Brisbane.

SPEAKER_01

Good choice. So a couple more questions and then we will hop off here. Talk a little bit about the off-season. What does that look like for you? How do you go about kind of ramping up to uh the beginning of the year? And also how has it changed over, say, the last five or ten years? What have you kind of learned about improving your offseason?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, because also for me this year has looked different than in years prior. Um, I started a different workout system uh called functional patterns um this year. And we um we prioritized, I think, the the physical work over, let's say, core time this off season. Um so I took uh after my last 250 in in Athens, the last tournament of the year, I took a month off from tennis um and decided to to really focus on intensely working on um you know my body in the sense of uh workouts, but also getting it ready for next year. I feel like I've gotten to a stage, and this is my personal tennis, where my biggest gains were going to be made if I got stronger, if I got a little bit bigger, if my body worked better in terms of functionality. And my coach thankfully agreed. So I was in Amsterdam for three weeks uh doing a whole bunch of workouts every day before going over to the US. Um, and that was the second part of my offseason. Um, every few months of the year, I go to Atlanta um to a neurology clinic called Georgia Chiropractic Neurology Center, um, where I've been going for a few years now, where we do a lot of brain-based training as well. Um, so we work a lot on vestibular training, balance, movement patterns. Um, and there's definitely been some core struggles for me physically, whether it be you know a push-off on my foot or the the way my body likes to rotate or where you know my power comes from in non-rotation. Um so we combine like an intense day in in the clinic itself, working on uh my brain and and my body, and then going out at night to uh to practice the things on court that we want to work on, let's say the next few days in the clinic. Um, so I did that for 10 days. Um and then I actually just came back from a little family vacation, um, which I think is also very important. Um, you know, when people, maybe a little bit of a tangent, but when people hear, let's say, the the top players or the whoever say, like, oh, the season is so long and we don't get enough time to rest, there is something to be said about being able to actually take some time off. Um, because it it doesn't only recharge your physical battery, but you know, what people have to realize is that you you don't see your friends and family for, let's say, sometimes 40 weeks of the year. And that's obviously that's gonna depend on how someone plays their schedule and where they live, et cetera, et cetera. But just the the ability to be in one place and not have to think about tennis or have to think about your career in one sense and just be present with the people that you care about is is a big part of what an off-season also looks like. Um so thankfully I was able uh to do that. Um, and then now I'm uh I'm back with my coach before we travel in a few days to Australia and uh and have a little bit more of an off-season there. But the the neurological and the physical trainer uh training this off season became a lot uh the bigger piece for me. So it was the first time that I actually was able to tell myself, like, hey, it's okay to leave your rackets in the closet to say, to say it like that for a few weeks and not feel like almost a sort of FOMO where, oh, but other people are on the course. I should be practicing X amount of hours a day. And I think that was that was cool for me to have this experience this off season, to know, hey, your the quality of your practices are going to get better if you focus on this physical part. Like you're just gonna be a better tennis player if you focus on this gym part this offseason. And that took it took some mental work for me to be okay with that because it's it's maybe a little bit different than what most do, but um uh I'm very happy in hindsight that I that I did that. So hopefully it will lead to some good results.

SPEAKER_01

Uh do you have any pre-match or internament maybe uh routines or superstitions?

SPEAKER_00

Thankfully, I'm not superstitious anymore. Um I used to. Um and I I realized that it was quite limiting for me because when when things didn't go exactly the way I wanted to before a match, it's it's not like I was doomsaying myself, like, oh now I'm for sure going to lose the match, but I definitely approached the match with a with a different mentality. So I had routines for sure. Like I carry uh a little notebook with me um on court that I that I put my cues in and my mantras in. So I definitely want to make sure that I put those in before the match. Um and I just want to make do uh do a little bit of visualization as well. Um but other than that, I'm I'm flexible when it comes to warming up or when to eat or something like that. But those two are kind of non-negotiables for me.

SPEAKER_01

Uh I want to uh transition to doubles and then we'll hop off here. What what changes? You know, obviously there's been a lot of changes in doubles the last several years, and US Open experimented with the new mixed format. Where do you feel like doubles should go from here? And maybe a different way to phrase that is what changes would you make uh if it were up to you for doubles?

Joy, Contrast, And Team Chemistry

Off‑Season: Strength And Neurology

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm I'm all for experimenting. Um I I think it's important to realize that I'm I'm in two camps at the same time. I can understand the experiments and the changes from, let's say, a tour or a tournament perspective because you want more fan engagement and and you want to to make your tournament as attractive to fans as possible. But at the same time, you know, you talked about that US Open mix. I would have loved to have played, obviously, as a player myself. So in in that sense, you feel um like people kind of took something away from you, so it's easy to kind of go into that victim role. So I think it's important for myself whenever I talk about a topic like this, is to know that I'm in two camps at the same time. Um I do genuinely believe that doubles is and can be a very viable product um for the ATP um and also for the mix. Um so you know, I I would love to see I understand from the ATP's perspective that it's it's hard to market doubles in the sense because you don't really have any consistency in that way with partnerships. You know, you had the Bryans for a long time who did a marvelous job also promoting themselves and um making sure they engaged with fans and stuff like that. Um so you know, I've I've been thinking about and talking to some people about what about, you know, at a certain level of the game, what if you have to commit to your partner for, let's say, an X amount of months for the season, whether it be three or six or whatever, and you can really only do one or two changes per season. I think that could streamline, at least from a marketing perspective, the ATP saying, okay, these are the teams for the first six months of the year, and let's create some storylines around them. Um I understand there's a lot of limitations to that, and you know, it's it's not a final thought or a final product, but just ideas. Um I think the the free crowd movement is is a great idea. Um I don't think that has to be specific to doubles, to say the least, but um, I I'm not a big fan of uh trying to extend the rallies or anything in doubles, but you know, where they said like you can I've heard some crazy things about you can you have to both or all four of you have to start at the baseline or something, or no one can start at the net. Like they it's you're just taken away from the game at that point. So I I like the the product as it is, and I feel like even conversations like these, you know, they they rarely happen with top doubles players. And I think providing the fans with the perspective outside of the the people that they see on TV all of the time, you know, you get to realize that there are real human, genuine stories behind all of these athletes. And you know, I I love that someone like you who's interested in in doubles also takes the time to uh to talk to us on a human level. And I think that's also where it starts. You know, it doesn't have to come from the top with this with this grand big marketing scheme or something, but you know, have have a dedicated podcaster do, let's say, just a doubles-only podcast. You know, why why not start something like there? Um, but these are these are all conversations to be had. Um we just have to be careful that from a tennis perspective, you know, we don't just ask, ask, ask, but also as doubles players, say, well, how can we add value to the tournaments and and to the fans and to the ecosystem as a whole? Because we know as as doubles players, we're kind of the little brother of tennis. But for for many, including myself, it's a it's a viable way to make a career in tennis and to feel and know that you're a professional athlete. Um, so I I just love engaging with, let's say, tournament directors and and supervisors to ask, like, hey, what can we do to help? And you know, the more you I think you focus on how you can add value and and where you can grow the tournament or the sports, it it comes back to you in in multiple ways, but even if you don't know exactly what that looks like from the start.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, those are some great ideas and honestly a really good perspective. Um yeah, I I I like this idea of the you know, three, six, or twelve-month partnerships. Um when you said that, the thing that came to my mind was F1, how like Formula One teams are dead at the beginning of the year. It's like you've got those 20 teams. Um I don't know if it has to be 12 months. Like you said, it could be three or six or whatever, but uh maybe there's like milestones within the year.

SPEAKER_00

Uh I've had our or something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Um yeah, I've had these conversations a lot, and that uh that has not come up exactly in that way for me. So that's that's really fascinating. Um so Tim, thanks a ton for coming on. Um last question for you. I know you are nominated for Amsterdam Athlete of the Year. How can people vote for you? And if you have any other requests of the audience, uh, we'll hop off here with that.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate it. Yeah. Um it's the uh it's the third time in the history of Amsterdam where a tennis player is up for this award. Um, and if I were to win it, it would be the first time a tennis player wins it. Um so yeah, before January 5th, which is the when the voting closes, I need to get as many votes as possible to win at least the popular vote. Um, I have on on my socials, I have um a video explaining um how to get to the link to vote. It's a Dutch website, so for the English speakers and um everybody, I I recommend watching that video. Um because you the site didn't, it's not that complicated. But if if everybody could go watch that video and and click on the link to vote, um it would be greatly appreciated. And and anybody who can share and and uh yeah, make sure we try to get as many votes as possible before January 5th. It would uh be a great start to the new year for me. Yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I uh I did it earlier today, and it's it's quite simple actually. So I'll link to it in the show notes for people listening. Thank you. Um yeah, it just it takes about one minute. Uh it's quite simple. So that's true. We'll link to that in the show notes and everything else we talked about. Tim, thanks a ton for coming on. I'm sure we'll do it again. Um, there's a lot of topics that you talked about that I want to kind of dive deeper into with you because I can tell you're a very thoughtful and uh um fascinating guy. So I appreciate the time.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Well. I appreciate you having me on and uh happy new year. Hopefully uh 2026 is gonna be a great year for you too.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks a ton.