Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Jan Zielinski & Luke Johnson: On-Court Emotions, Partnership Dynamics, Good Practice, Mixed Doubles, & More

• Will Boucek • Episode 278

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Jan Zielinski and Luke Johnson are both top 30 ATP doubles players who recently reached the Australian Open semifinals. I sat down with them at Indian Wells to talk about what clicked early in their new partnership, the season so far, and more. We spoke about emotional intensity, brutally close losses, mixed doubles, and why doubles still isn’t marketed like the product it can be.

  • What “great practice” looks like and why small gains matter 
  • How the partnership forms and how offseason training actually works 
  • Early-season lessons from Australia plus grit in tight moments 
  • Building points for your partner instead of chasing hero shots 
  • Sets versus drills and how to use match data fast 
  • Where Jan's on-court emotion comes from, plus the benefits and downsides 
  • Their crazy loss in Acapulco and how they process it
  • Mixed doubles strategy with Hsieh Su-wei (they won two Grand Slams in 2024)
  • What to change about US Open mixed doubles access 
  • Why ATP doubles marketing lags, plus simple fixes like better highlights

Jan and Luke are one of the most entertaining teams to watch on the pro tour, with amazing return skills, impressive volleys, and highlight points. Watch them throughout the 2026 season on Tennis TV and Tennis Channel Plus.

Learn more about Jan & follow:

Learn more about Luke & follow:

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Indian Wells Conversation Setup

SPEAKER_02

We're about to hear another conversation from Open Wells this time with one of the top double sections on the HTTP score. John Zelensky and Luke Johnson. Luke might be early for its quarter finals last year. He was on the podcast several times last year as well. It's one of the most important players over the last couple of seasons. Johnson Let's keep this is its first time on the scope. With 64 and it's been on the top of 4084 for uh several years now. We had to start with that. Well, starting to practice earlier in the day. How they felt walking off of the practice course. And then we dive into the part of the part of it for 2026. I asked them what they focused on early on to try to build that material work so well looking up to their alternative open semi-final run. We talked a little bit about that run. Uh after that, Luke talks about the results that they had in Mexico. And then I asked you on about playing mixed doubles with uh for mixed doubles. And then he opens up a little bit about the benefits and drawbacks of being an emotional player on the court watch and definitely where it's focused on very fun hard player to watch. But of course, there's pros and cons to that, and we'll talk a little bit about that. And at the end, we talk about changes that they would like to speak to the doubles tour. So without further delay, enjoy this conversation with Jan Zelensky and Luke Johnson. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I'm back here at Indian Wells, this time with Jan Zelensky and Luke Johnson. Welcome, guys. Hey guys. Hey, thanks for having us. Um I wanted to start with uh practice today. So uh we just uh met um not too far from here outside the locker room, and Luke, I asked you how the practice went, and you said really well. Yeah. What makes a practice go really well?

SPEAKER_00

I think well we probably played our best we have of all the practices while we've been here. Um and then all the small things we worked on, like there's been improvements like day by day in things we're trying to work on, and then today everything kind of just came together. Um and it was a like a very good performance. Um and we had fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What about for you, Jan? How how do you feel like after practice, what makes a practice uh go really well? What makes it where you feel like satisfied after practice?

SPEAKER_01

I think is what is what Luke said. Um I think all the little things that we worked on in the past weeks and the past months um of our partnership, just seeing coming together and being more and more efficient and more effective with those those tactical plays that we're trying to implement into our game. Um and seeing how well we start to understand each other, start to like recognize what shots we're gonna hit from certain positions and be able to cover our territory well and help each other in certain situations. And I think that's um it's coming together. We've already seen it in India, um, not in India was but in in Australia this year. Um so I'm I'm just really looking forward to see it pay off on the tennis court in the in the matches.

How The Partnership Formed

SPEAKER_02

Um, how did the the partnership kind of form? Uh obviously y'all played with different people last year. Um, how did the partnership form? And then what did off-season look like? Were you able to train together? Or was it separate? Talk about that a little bit as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, we were both looking for partners for uh for next year. Um kind of a few conversations happened, and then it just we just kind of both agreed that we thought it was a really exciting partnership. Um, both of our goals sort of aligned with wanting to make it to Turin. Um and yeah, where it went from there. It was pretty quick once once we we got into it, it was pretty quick sort of situation that we both yeah, we both felt it, I think, pretty quickly and said, Yeah, let's do it. Um, I mean, off season wise, we had our own training, and then uh Jan came over to London and trained with us for um for a week at the National Tennis Centre, obviously with a few of the other guys, and then uh my coach Calvin and Louis Cae.

SPEAKER_02

Where do you train in the offseason, Jan?

SPEAKER_01

I usually I usually stay around Warsaw. Okay, that's where uh that's where my base is, that's where Mariusz lives, uh, my coach. Um we usually have a Davies Cup camp around that time of the year. Uh usually it's the first week of December where all the guys from all around Poland come together in Warsaw and we try to try to get some practices together because we're all spread out around Poland, and there's not that many of us too. So we try to we try to get together for one week in the offseason, try to get some practices together so we have some good quality time. Um and then just like Luke mentioned, I went over to London for a week. Um, and then in between, actually, this did not happen this year. Actually, it did. Um, I also, my girlfriend is Hungarian, so I sometimes go to Hungary and practice in a national tennis center in Budapest, um, where my fitness coach is located, too, uh, from the Hungarian Federation. So it it's a it's a couple places, but most of the time I spend in Warsaw, and then depends on the on the other aspects of the preseason, like a new partnership or something that I try to adjust.

SPEAKER_02

It seems like Warsaw might not be the best place for golf in December. And you have your this golf obsession that we were just talking about.

SPEAKER_01

I did golf in December once, outdoors. Yes, we did go outdoors. It was uh three, four degrees Celsius, which is which is quite cold. It wasn't snowing. We dressed up pretty pretty warm, and we did get a good 18 holes in uh it was actually fun. I actually I was I was very I was hesitating a lot if not if go if to go or not. Uh but then it convinced me to go because there's a couple guys that are even more obsessed than me, and they actually do play in December as much as they can. Um, and they said it's not that bad. But once I got out there, it was actually it was actually quite nice. It was funny, it's a sunny day. Uh you dress up well. Um, and if you play if you play a good round, you don't mind the cold though. So yeah, it was nice.

SPEAKER_02

You just have to hit like two or three extra clubs because everything's yes.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't take that into consideration at first, but uh I enjoyed my time, it was nice.

Australia Run And Team Tactics

SPEAKER_02

That's funny. Um, so I want to talk about the the partnership early in the season. Obviously, you made a really good run to the semifinals in Australia. Um, what clicked early, and then also what hasn't worked early? If you can share like an example or two of something you've had to kind of adjust or work through.

SPEAKER_01

Uh what hasn't worked, I think what hasn't worked was uh how tired I was going into Adelaide uh straight after United Cup. That was the biggest um biggest thing that I had to overcome and just try to recover after such a long week at the United Cup. So I wasn't at my best um at our first tournament together. We still managed to win one match, but I was just completely dead going to the second one. So that was that was all on me that week. But I think I I managed to get some some good recovery uh in between in between Adelaide and Australia. And I mean, I mean, it's just clicked off from the start. Um all the little things that we were trying to work on were there, we're not consistently there. That's why we've seen some struggles in the earlier rounds. Uh we also faced really good with really quality opponents. Um, and I think we just showed a lot of grit and resilience in those matches and managed to save match points in the first round, uh save a lot of breakpoints in a set down in a second match against a good team that's performing on the highest level now throughout the season. Um just super happy about the grit and the resilience we showed throughout the Austrian Open Tournament, which is mostly what we have to focus on at the beginning of the partnership. And then once we start to get to know each other better and understand our games better, the shots that we like to hit in certain moments, then we can actually start to implement tactics more and more. And I think now it's the period where we uh really start to understand each other's games and what we like, what we don't like, uh, what shots we should go for, what shots the other guy will go for, and we can, like I said earlier, cover uh better in the stressful moments. Um so I think that that's gonna be the key moving forward. And at the beginning of the area, it was more like reacting to what's happening on the court and just just being tough and resilient.

SPEAKER_02

Do you have an example um without sharing like too much information about your tendencies and preferences? Um you said a few times, Jan, figuring out what shots each other like to hit, right? So if if like I'm at the net and Luke has a forehand from a certain area of the court, maybe my old partner hit it here and my new partner is hitting it here, and you have to figure that out. What do you have an example of that maybe that uh you've had to kind of work through?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's an example. It's more just really like refining as a team, like not trying to do anything too much as one individual. Like say you have an attacking ball, we're trying to, I'm trying to attack still, but I'm not trying to necessarily win the point with that attacking. I'm trying to make hit a shot that then Jan can then close and knock off the volley, or trying to, yeah, trying to really win the point as as a team rather than obviously sometimes you hit amazing individual shots, but over the course of a year, if we can win more points and more points as a team and set each other up really well, um I think that that's something that'll really this that we've been really trying to hone in on, make make make great.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it was just Luke said, it's like when I'm finishing the ball on top of the net, it's mostly not uh thanks to me that we win a point. It's mostly that Luke set me up for an easy volley. Um, and me just making a move or knocking off the volley is like all 80% of the credit should go to Luke by hitting a good baseline shot and then other way around too, you know? By me serving a great shot, serving a great serve to the right spot, and then Luke just knocking off the volley. Probably 95% of the people can still knock off that volley, you know? But then the executing the tactics and positioning yourself, well, that's another thing that we work on and really try to try to get better at.

SPEAKER_02

How much with a new partnership versus let's say you had stuck with the same partner uh going into a new year? Uh how important is it to get a lot of sets in and a lot of matches in versus working on specific drills and serves and returns and all that stuff? Do you try to emphasize that more with the new partnership, the sets and the practice matches?

SPEAKER_00

I think so. Yeah, I think we were, we were, well, I think it benefited the partnership greatly that Jan came over to London. Um, and we were able to actually work on a lot of the stuff that wasn't in set play there and things that um things we wanted to do positionally and things we wanted to do tactically there, we were able to have sort of open discussions that isn't we're not playing a match the next day because it's always you're always thinking, right? So we're able to have good discussions there. Then actually, when we got to Australia, fortunately, we were fortunately, we we went really deep, so we got a lot of uh data of in real matches. Um if not, we would have liked we would have kept playing a lot of sets. I mean, in leading up to Australia, we played a lot of sets in the what in the few days between Adelaide and Melbourne. Um and then since Australia, we then had a chance to work on a few things, and then since we've come to Indian Wells, um, we've played the majority has just been set play um to try and really like close out and get really refined on those those smaller things.

SPEAKER_02

Uh question for you, Jan. Simple question here. Uh, where does your on-court emotion come from?

SPEAKER_01

On court emotion?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you're a very animated guy sometimes. Passionate, you mean?

SPEAKER_01

Um I would like to say the love for the game, but it's of often love-hate relationship. Uh so it's just I'm I'm an emotional kind of guy on and off the court, you know. Um, I tend to be very honest and open about my emotions. Um, and I I'd like people that are like this as well, just not hiding uh what they have to say, not hiding like their emotions really. I think we're all human beings in the other day, and if you crowd all the emotions inside, it's just yeah, it's becoming a burden uh at some point. Um so for me on the court, it's just being myself and and just trusting myself and yeah, trying to be the best version of myself on the court is what really makes me the best tennis player. Um and bringing like all the ten all the partners that I've played with throughout the years, and and Luke as well knows that partnering up with me it comes with some with a lot of good but some bad as well. I I I'm gonna have a bad day, and um I've worked on it a lot in the past to have less of these bad days and those kind of like meltdowns, I'd say. Um they don't happen anymore as often, uh, but they they used to, I mean, they made me quit singles really because I was too tough on myself and not forgiving enough. Um just to like being too much of a perfectionist, you know. Um, so being in that team environment and doubles lets me be a have a little bit more freedom and rely on my partner to save me up in uh in uh tough moments. I love that answer.

SPEAKER_02

It feels like it's kind of two sides of the same coin. There's like the positive emotion side, but you can't have that with sometimes having a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean it comes together. So, like when we spoke about it with Sanders at the beginning of last year, he was aware that it comes with good and bad, you know, partnering up with me, like playing two years with Google. He knew I'm gonna have some bad days, but it just there's gonna be more good days that comes with it, you know. And on a good day, I I think I'd like to think I'm one of the best players in the world, and my tennis game is up there. Um, so I think it's I think it's worth keeping up with me on those bad days sometimes too.

The Mexico Loss That Made No Sense

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it seems to be working okay so far. Um, Luke, share the story of the loss in Mexico that you told me about a few days ago.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, the uh yeah. So we were we played first round in Acapulco. Um that was the last tournament, and it was we played Dimitrov and Koboli. Um two great players. Um, and yeah, it was a match where we actually played well. We did a lot of the things we've been working on really well. We'd uh done seemed to be putting a lot of pressure on playing well. Things were going a lot of things were going our way. Um just tennis-wise, even though we yeah, we were happy with the performance, and yeah, we ended up losing seven uh six seven, I think it was six three, eight ten. Um, and it was yeah, after the match, we sort of said, Yeah, we thought we did well. We had a look at the stats, and we'd we'd won 18 more points than our opponents, um, which I think I don't think I've ever seen anything as high as that. Um it's an anomaly, I think. And it was that was the that was almost uh yeah, we re reviewed the match afterwards, almost saying, look, I think we almost have to review it as a as a win, yeah um and just try and brush it off, not read too much into the loss, um, which I think we've done a pretty good job of. Um, like we were both disappointed after we lost, because we think you know, it's like, how can we lose when we felt like we dominated a lot of the match? Um it took me a day or two to recover from that, though. Yeah, it took you, yeah, you take a little bit longer to recover in what way? Say more.

SPEAKER_01

It's just like disappointing loss because I felt like we've done all the right stuff and we've played a good match, like Luke said, and we still end up losing, you know, like second week in a row we lose 8-10 in a super tie break. Second time in a row, we win more points in a match. This time it's a crazy start, 18 more points. I think in Daredevil Beach, we also won a couple more points and we end up losing a match. So it's just one of those days when you sit down and you're just like, damn, like you're doing all the right stuff, you're putting all this work in, and it's just like all the all the numbers are in your favor, but you're still not coming out on top at the end of the day, you know. So it's like it was a bummer to lose this one, but um and it was just like you know, I made one or two mistakes in the end of the match that did not happen throughout the match, and they did happen in the most important moment, so it was just kind of disappointing from for my from my side to to have that in that those moments. But yeah, I got over it tomorrow is the new day.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's one of those um terms. I feel like they use this in soccer or football uh in Europe, as they call it. Football. Uh football. Football. Uh where they say where like a team loses like two to one or something, and they they'll say like they deserve to win. Yeah. Right. Um, so I remember I I looked at the stats as I was kind of preparing for this conversation, and it looked, I think y'all won, or y'all had a higher first serve percentage, higher win percentage on first serve, higher win percentage on second serve, one more return points, like every single metric except the in score. Um, so yeah, I I guess it's all about just kind of following that process and trusting over time.

SPEAKER_00

I think in doubles, especially with the with the NOAA, these scoring these losses can happen. Obviously, you don't want them to happen often, but it's yeah, trying to keep a keep a sort of even emotion about it. Like you might win some having lost some more points. And but it's uh yeah, in the moment it was it was a difficult, it was a really difficult loss. But sure, yeah, as we've come round, we've we've come here and we're practice has been great again and we're yeah, we're ready to go.

Mixed Doubles Trust And Chemistry

SPEAKER_02

Uh Jan, I wanted to ask you about mixed doubles. Um, you won a couple of grand slams with Chase Uwe. Uh, what makes you good at mixed doubles? What is what's it like to play with Chase Sue and how does your strategy change for mixed?

SPEAKER_01

Um I used to not be a very good mixed doubles player. Uh, if you look at my record in the first year, I lost four out of four. And then going into Australia in the second year, um spoke to my coach and we're like, we're we're skipping mixed. It's just a waste of time. Um, I know it's a couple extra grand on the side, but it's just a waste of time. And then I'm on the way to the locker room, I see the I see the looking list and I see Shaysueway on the looking list, number one in the world, and I'm like, well, it could be a sign, you know? If not with her, then with I'm yeah, if it didn't work then, then it's you.

SPEAKER_00

It's definitely you on the street. I'm definitely never gonna have this problem.

SPEAKER_01

I I I tell Marius about it, and then he's like, I actually played with her in the past. She's a she's a really nice person, really nice player. Um, and she's the one that's playing like two handed beckon and four hands. I'm like, and then I realize who she is. Like I had no idea that's that's that player. I've seen her practicing before, but I didn't know that's her name. Oh, that's funny. Um, and then Marius was like, I can reach out to her coach, Kyra Black, and speak about it, and then if she agrees, you guys can give it a shot. I'm like, yeah, why not? I mean, she's number one in the world. Let's see how it goes. And then um, yeah, it was just kind of natural from the start, you know. Um, natural from the start, from the first round, we played really good. Um, but I think like a tip that that I mean, I don't want to like give tips to all the players because I'm I'll be facing you guys then later on. But uh I don't know how many listen to this. Yeah, I think it's just a trusting woman, you know, trusting, trusting your partner. You know, you often feel like you have to do 80% of the job on the court as a man, and obviously, like you're still a dominant player in the team most of the time, but you have to you have to trust your partner and let her do her job. You know, she's the end of the day a very good tennis player if she's out there playing grand slams, being ranked highly. Um, so you have to you have to let her play her game, uh, trust her with her shots, because if you start to do too much on the court, not only you're all over the place, also she feels like you don't trust her. So then she loses confidence, you lose a bit of the rhythm of the match as well, trying to cross on every ball or like take all the middle balls or something. So just letting letting your partner do her part and doing your part to the best you can. And I think that's what makes the best doubles uh mixed doubles teams in the world. They just they just trust each other, and that's I think we showed that at the United Cup this year too, where I really trusted my partner and um I allowed her to to be herself um on the court, and she proved herself on the biggest stage against top top players in the world. Um, and yeah, I I think it's just uh great chemistry between men and woman. That's what that's what makes the great doubles mix doubles teams the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh related to that, um, I wanted to talk briefly about the US Open mixed. Um you obviously expressed your feelings, a lot of doubles players did, about not being being given a chance to get into the draw. Um what changes would you make to the mixed doubles at the US Open uh if we allowed you to make like changes this year, for example? Go back to the old format. You like the old format. Yeah, I mean you guys What if I took that option off the table?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, allow more mixed double doubles players to enter the tournament or Or I don't know. It's like I I've spoken about it so many times, yeah, publicly and privately. Uh it's like no offense, but I'm a bit tired of this topic at this point. Like it's been such a long time of since that happened and since that been a conversation. Um that I just kind of got over it. And I I it we got to the point where whatever we as doubles players say or do doesn't really matter. So I just prefer to keep it to myself and like it doesn't really matter what I say or what I do at this point, you know. We'll see what happens, what they decide to do. What I would like to see ideally is just a bit more spots and opportunity for us double specialists to be out there and and prove ourselves, like Iranian Bavasori did last year, you know? It was only one team in the draw and they ended up winning the whole thing. So if we're capable of playing at the highest level against the best players in the world, that they actually have something on the line to play for because there was a lot of money at stake. It's not like you can make an argument that the singles player is barely tried. They actually did try fully because there was a lot of money at stake and you played at the biggest stage in the world, the artwork stadium. So just give more opportunities to the doubles guys and see how we do. Like if we fail to beat any of the singles guys and we keep losing first rounds everywhere, then yeah, make an argument to put more singles guys because it for whatever reason. But I think if you make it more even with the singles doubles, I I know the singles guys that those are the guys that sell tickets, sell the TV time and everything. But at the same time, you're taking away the opportunities from us a little bit.

How To Market Doubles Better

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I'm sure that they're going to continue to evolve it and make changes to hopefully the doubles teams, who are the best mixed doubles players in the world, um, as Arani and Bavastori proved, uh, can get a chance going forward. Um, last question. Uh, Luke, I've talked to you about this before, but I'd like to hear from both of you. Um, more broadly, what would you like to see from the tours and what can be done to help increase the popularity? Jan, you just said the the singles players are the ones selling the tickets and getting the TV viewers, but there's a world 10, 15, 20 years from now where the doubles players can do that too, or at least I believe that. Um, and I'm sure y'all do too. What changes would you like to see over the next, say, one to three years?

SPEAKER_01

Well, there's zero marketing of doubles. That's the biggest issue. Like no one knows us. We're not selling tickets because we're not being marketable by uh by ATP. Like ATP is not doing any job to try to put us out there, you know, try to put our names on Instagrams, Twitters. Um, the number of the posts we get um are not comparable to the singles guys. So we're not, I'm not talking about 50-50 split. I'm just talking about like putting a little bit of an effort, you know, trying trying to trying to make some money out of the doubles product because I think it's a great product. I think it can bring a lot of benefits to the tour, uh, not only financially, but from all the other aspects too. Um, a lot of amateurs actually do like doubles and play doubles, and people who follow tennis do play doubles because it's just easier on the body. It's like it's it's more of a team sport, team atmosphere. You can play it in the country clubs. It's just so much more popular than singles in terms of like the country club format, uh, team play. You know, so I just would like to see more uh more social media output from the from the ATP. And that thing would make the product so much better.

SPEAKER_00

Any comments, Lee? Yeah, I I mean it's on the same line as Jan. I think it's uh it is a lot of it is around marketing. I mean, we've discussed privately, Will, about the like the highlights that they're putting out um for doubles. I think that could be a an easy place to start where we just the the points, there's so many good points. I mean, even in the practice, we just had those even one set we played, there was two or three points where there's reaction bollies, there's net chords, there's lobs, there's all these different like aspects of the game that aren't shown outside of people who sit and watch the full the full match. I think there's the highlights, there is a lot of highlights and a lot of skillful points that are not shown um on social media. I think that could be a good way just to uh I guess highlight the the different aspects of doubles because a lot of people say is it's all serving and knocking off volleys, but there is a good amount of that. But around all of that, there's some there's some great points. There's different this different aspects of the game that are going on. So I would say in the immediate future would be to to change the the posts, first get more posts put up, but also yeah, the highlights of the matches that are shown rather than just the last point. Like we've spoken about sometimes they show they show the last point and it's a double fault, and that's that's the that's the whole point, and that's the thing they show. Yeah.

Final Thoughts And Goodbye

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, or a missed return. Yeah. Awesome guys. This was a ton of fun. Thanks for coming on, and hopefully we can uh do it again some point down the road. And good luck this week. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for feeling that thanks.