Excruciatingly Slow: The Power of Sacred Intimacy with Uma James

What happens when intimacy slows down enough for the body to truly land?

In this rich and intimate conversation, Melissa sits down with Uma James to explore the transformative power of slowness, sacred erotic work, and building a sustainable, integrity-based business in the world of sensual and somatic practice.

Uma shares her journey from holistic sex education and fertility awareness into hands-on somatic intimacy work, revealing how witnessing sexual pain and disconnection led her toward deeper body-based healing modalities. Through extensive training, mentorship, and entrepreneurial instinct, she crafted a practice rooted in presence, permission, and pace.

Together, we explore:

• Why “excruciatingly slow” intimacy can feel uncomfortable at first — and why that’s exactly the point
• The three foundations of Uma’s work: presence, permission, and slowness
• What truly nourishes touch-starved nervous systems
• Why fantasy fulfillment alone often isn’t what clients are actually seeking
• The difference between transactional energy and generative relational exchange
• The stigma around paying for intimacy work — and why investing in care makes sense
• How to build a sustainable, high-integrity erotic business
• Why mentorship is essential in sacred, sensual professions
• Uma’s personal exploration of prolonged high-arousal states and slow-sex devotion

Uma speaks candidly about maintaining practitioner integrity, honoring authentic yeses, and referring clients when desires move outside her mastery. She also introduces her upcoming Priestess Business Model Project, designed to mentor women in building thriving, sustainable intimacy-based practices.

This episode is a deep dive into what becomes possible when eroticism meets devotion, when business meets sacred structure, and when intimacy becomes a journey rather than a peak experience.

If you’ve ever wondered:

• What real somatic intimacy work looks like
• Why slowness can unlock altered states
• How to create a regenerative, long-term client practice
• Or how to build an integrity-driven sensual business

This conversation will open doors.

Connect with Uma James

• www.umajames.com
• www.instagram.com/umajamestouch

Transcript

Melissa D (00:00)
Uma James, thank you so much for entering the studio this evening.

Uma (00:05)
My pleasure, I'm so excited to be here with you.

Melissa D (00:08)
Yeah, I, I generally like to start off by how I know you. And then we can just kind of flow from there. I a few years ago, I was traveling to Philadelphia. was asked to work with a couple people in the area. And I was like, huh, let me see who is in similar lines of work.

that are in Philly. You know, I was looking for a studio to work in and I'm really particular on the spaces that I see clients in because, you know, a normal massage studio is generally not going to work, but I want something that just feels good, looks good, etc. And so I went online and I found your ad and I was like, her, I read your, I saw your images, read the words.

dropped into like your offerings and I was like, I'm going to contact her. She seems incredible.

Uma (01:02)
Aww, thank you. Well, it was awesome to connect with you.

Melissa D (01:06)
Mm Yeah. And your space, I mean, now you've since moved from Philadelphia and I think you're only there every once in a while, but yeah, your space is just stunning. It was just really clean and clear and just like a beautiful canvas to, to do deep work in. And it was such a sweet part of town too, walkable with the brown stones and just,

Uma (01:28)
Ugh, I love that space, yeah.

Melissa D (01:30)
It was

so sweet.

Uma (01:32)
But you are also quite an exception because I'm really protective of that space. I wasn't renting it out to anybody. I didn't really have that happening. And when you reached out and you were just like, hi, this is me. This is my work. I'm wondering or curious if, you know, you run out your space. And I looked you up and I was like,

Yeah, yeah, of course. I, of course. Yes to you. You're wonderful. Sure. Like it was so easy. And I mean, since then I only shared my space with two of my other closest colleagues and friends that I like met in a training and that's it. It was just the three of you. And you, that's it. Yeah, you are.

Melissa D (01:58)
Of course!

That is it. ⁓ wow. I'm one of the chosen. Amazing. Yeah.

And what I remember, too, is there was a couple of teachers, Kafe and Justin, being one of them and Omar Pani being the other one that you were like, let me double click on these and continued your training. ⁓

Uma (02:29)
Absolutely. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, I think we both had like known of Kauff and Jesse's work and then you shared a podcast with me that Om Rupani had recorded. I didn't know who that was and introduced me to his work. And then I went on to do like his six month BDSM training and it was amazing. Yeah, so cool.

Melissa D (02:42)
Mm-hmm.

Amazing. Yes. ⁓ I love that.

I love that how we can inspire one another. And also there's this there's this beautiful thread of trust, you know, that can come through just by seeing how we work and the language that we use and all of that.

So I want to ask you about, too am a just a relisher of slow intimacy. It's probably one of the most impactful aspects of my work. And so I'm curious how that thread is in your work specifically.

Uma (03:20)
my goodness, it is so central to my work. It is in everything that I do and how I begin my approach. I would say that after many trainings and years of being in this work, what consistently lands for people, what is consistently a significant element about...

my approach or how I hold a session is the pace, is that slowness. Sometimes I'll describe it to people that I may be working with or about to work with as like excruciatingly slow. say that. Yes, and I say that because we are coming from a culture that is so sped up.

Melissa D (03:46)
Mm-hmm.

Slow enough.

Uma (04:06)
and people are so rushed and so on the go that it can feel initially awkward or even uncomfortable to be slowing down that much.

Melissa D (04:16)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (04:16)
And yet there is something about that slowness that really lands in the body in a way that is always so unexpected, bigger than was expected or was hoped for. And so yeah, I think that the slowness is something that even if we move in directions that are a little less slow and a little more playful and a little the foundation.

Like the beginning, the essential is in the slowness.

Melissa D (04:46)
And you would say even if it's someone that's coming to you and I'm going to use a calf and Jesse term and island of pleasure because there's I imagine that people come to you through all sorts of different doorways. It could be like more maybe even like a fantasy like there's this thing I need to fulfill. There's a thing I want to do. There's this thing I want experience or someone that's like, I had this thing happen in my life and I want to unpack it with an intentional person.

⁓ So I'm curious what happens when these different people come in and are met with your slowness, how that may look in session.

Uma (05:20)
Well, I would say that, okay, one thing there, when people reach out to me, oftentimes, actually, it's less about a fantasy. I mean, maybe there's a fantasy element, but I have sort of crafted my work in a way that I have specific offerings and it's really intentional and it's...

And again, it's become more and more specific. So if someone comes to me with a desire to have a particular kind of experience, and that is it, then we may not be a match. That might not be somebody that I actually move forward with and work with.

Melissa D (05:58)
Mm-hmm.

Like if,

like if they're really fixated on, hey, I want to be pegged by this beautiful creature that I saw this certain image of you and I want you to wear the white shirt with the da da da. And I want to be pegged, which is beautiful request, right?

Uma (06:15)
Totally beautiful,

absolutely a beautiful request. Yes. And at the same time, but that's a conversation that's definitely worthy of a conversation. And I would and I would like to understand, okay, well, what how how does that experience and that image in that fantasy, like where does it come from? Where is it anchored in your erotic journey in your relationship with yourself is like taught?

Melissa D (06:19)
Ha ha ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (06:42)
Let's talk about the intimacies in your life and like what you're wanting for yourself and what parts of you are needing to feel expressed. then we can absolute. I mean, oftentimes I'll say, why don't you come in for an introductory session? Like relationships can evolve and grow. What might open up that we can do together is something that, yeah, that can have an arc. But first,

Melissa D (06:51)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (07:09)
First, come and land with me. Come into my domain, step in here. And in my domain, as far as like an essential introductory session, I would say that the three key elements that I continuously use are gonna be presence. That is not just for me, but I'm also gauging my clients ability to be present and how they engage with my presence, that quality because

Melissa D (07:31)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (07:34)
Stepping into a fantasy scenario that sounds really beautiful requires a certain level of presence, right? So there's an idea, but what's the embodied feeling of that idea from square one? And then there's permission, right? A permission field. I love the idea and the concept of creating a really, really broad permission field for...

Melissa D (07:46)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (07:57)
all of us, for anybody and for everyone, right? Like, what's your thing? Yeah. And, you know, even creating that often helps to kick out some of that performance anxiety and pressure that everyone is like, it's really carrying with them all the time. You can just start putting it down once that permission field is really felt and conveyed well. And then just like the truth starts coming out and curiosity and then we move into...

into the pace, into the slowness of things. But the slowness exists in combination with the permission and the presence. And the truth is that as exciting as all of the scenarios sound, when we just begin with those three elements.

I am consistently delighted and surprised by how much newness, how much novelty, how much discovery, how much revelation there is in just that. In simply the presence, the permission, and the pace of slowness. And like, hello, let's meet here first. And even in that place,

Melissa D (08:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (09:04)
always in that place. People are feeling things they have never felt before.

Melissa D (09:09)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah, I would have to agree with you. And again, I know the two of us work really similarly, like it has to give them something to really experience. And it may be completely different than their normal go to life. And it's this place of freedom, maybe, and discovery. And it also

I imagine you can maybe explain more to everyone listening is you are also finding your authentic yes in engaging with this person and what they're coming to you for and what you're discovering together.

Uma (09:43)
Yes, absolutely. I think that there is a really important element inside of relational work for it to feel like a yes for the practitioner. And I have learned that again and again, and probably how I've refined my work now over time is that, yes, I have a big palette. I can do a lot of things. There's so many tools in my tool belt. When we talk about,

Yeah, we can make that happen and I can engage on multiple levels. And when I'm holding a container, when I am, you know, guiding somebody and all of the elements that are required to hold that space, to be the containment inside the room and then to meet somebody in a way that is going to be as impactful as possible.

It's got to be from a place that feels like that I am in my mastery, that this is something that I value deeply and that it's just such a yes in my system that feels so true and also nourishing to me. So that now we've entered into this generative dynamic and beyond the intellectual understanding of it for the either for the client or for myself in that container.

Melissa D (10:48)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (10:56)
there's, there's, it's just so rich. There's so much there. And I would say that is, it is so much more rewarding, not just for myself, but the impact for my client and whatever is transmitted in my touch, in my presence, in how fully engaged I am. That's that, that takes it to another level. And now, and when I honor that and I feel, and now that I have felt into that consistently, it's like,

actually, I do less and it goes deeper.

Melissa D (11:28)
Yes. Yeah, and I love that you use the word rejuvenative in the work. It's like you can show up in truth. They can feel it. You're not just performing a thing. Again, there's nothing wrong with performing a thing, but it just lands differently when you can have this shared. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Uma (11:45)
⁓ yeah, absolutely. think

in our, we move that energy between two people and it feels like it's something, it doesn't feel like the client is taking necessarily or that the practitioner is taking. Like sometimes there's this imbalance or this strange energetic in a service offering.

you know, and you think, okay, there's a certain amount of depletion and now, and of course, self care and all of those things are not thrown off, are not thrown out just because you're in this really aligned dynamic. there is just, there's a, like, what is it? There's just an element that feels.

Melissa D (12:14)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (12:25)
It's like an artist that is asked to paint, this is what you love to do. You're an artist, right? Well, here's a canvas and there are the colors and like, go for it. And the person who just wants to like watch you paint and receive the art and it's going to decorate their home. And the artist is just so excited to have the freedom and the materials. And now there's this beautiful generative dynamic between these two people.

Melissa D (12:32)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (12:51)
and one receives something to make their home more beautiful and the other one gets to express their this skill and this talent and and now they're meeting each other and it's not just hey I'm giving you money so that you can do the thing that I want you to do. That's totally different energetic there.

Melissa D (13:08)
⁓

Yeah, I speak to a lot of spicy workers, a fair amount that often are giving and offering services that are just either out of alignment or not. They're true. Yes. And in seeing the impact of that, which I mean, I don't want to go too much into the weeds because I get that some people probably don't really have a choice either.

And so I do my best to speak to as many workers that I can and just offer like another palette and extension of like, okay, great. You're doing this for whatever reason, you know, either you're inspired or you have a gift or finances or whatever, it doesn't really matter, but how do you find the yes? And so it's more rejuvenative, regenerative for your body and for your system. And it's a different way to hold. ⁓

a container rather you're a therapeutic worker or fulfilling a certain fantasy or whatever. And again coming back to my point of when I was looking at the different ads there was just something that really stood out to me that also you know is in my ads too there's just a it's a different frequency altogether.

Uma (14:14)
Yes, and that is rare. That is like, you can recognize it and identify it when you see it. And usually it's like, I'm scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and then there may be something that, this lands differently, this hits different. And actually, I'm not even sure how this is exactly gonna look, but I have been thinking more and more about that and about how...

people who have done many trainings, who have wonderful offerings and who want to do this work for whatever reason, the money, a talent, a desire, a joy in it, or a fetish, super hot, it's like sexy and it turns them on. Yeah, I mean, all the reasons. And how to create

Melissa D (14:47)
A fetish. ⁓ Yeah. Right.

Uma (14:58)
like how to actually approach this as a business because it is it's it's work and and also how you interact with the people who are who have the courage and the desire and the interest and the resources to access this work. There is actually there's a very important this is a very important part of it and this is the structure around the business itself like the the infrastructure of the building.

Melissa D (15:20)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (15:23)
I don't know, like, you know, those parts, the skeleton that's holding everything up is something that I find a lot of wonderful, talented, well-trained people out there haven't quite put together, haven't quite built that element, and they're finding themselves either burnt out by inquiries that don't lead anywhere and like are wondering how to hold that or... ⁓

Melissa D (15:47)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (15:49)
people who aren't following through or simply not working as much as they would like to be working and are wondering what's off about how they're putting or advertising their work or what their intake process is like, where that might not be working. And there's an element about that that I think from the very beginning, I had a very strong put together idea of my presence and the...

Melissa D (16:04)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (16:16)
process I take my clients through how I screen and how I invite them to take each step towards a session with me and How at the end of the day I work with incredible people I love my clients. They are wonderful human beings. I'm I'm so honored that they Like share what they do with me that they step into this work with me. I adore them and I feel

Melissa D (16:29)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (16:43)
really lucky to have people like that in my life and to be a part of their journey. And I often don't hear those stories as much from other practitioners, other colleagues, we know in spaces where there is an opportunity to like, ⁓ chit chat and hear. And I'm thinking to myself, hmm, there are bits and pieces of this, like this is sacred work.

Melissa D (16:44)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (17:08)
And sacred work does require structure to hold it up, to protect it, to maintain its integrity. And I think there's an element of that that's missing in this erotic art space and the spicy workspace. There's a lot of skills being shared, but not so much of the business component of it.

Melissa D (17:27)
Right.

Yeah, I'm curious. Similar. You know, I started off with a structure as well, and I had mentors to kind of help me with that. I'm curious what were. What were some of the things that really supported you in kind of starting out that way and what are the big differences between when you first started and where you are now?

Uma (17:45)
So one of the things that I'm a big researcher and like I will go out and do essentially like who's working in my field in this city, in this area, what are they offering, how do they work and who's working in the cities close to me even especially if they're in bigger cities. I reached out to incredibly attractive like dominatrix's with websites that I loved and I

Melissa D (18:12)
Yeah.

Uma (18:13)
or tantricas that were doing work and I thought, ⁓ they sound like they really have it together. I'm gonna call them and ask if they would be willing to charge me for a coaching session where I get to just like ask them questions. Can I pick your brain? Can I ask you questions about your work?

Melissa D (18:27)
Well,

hold on a second. my next question is like, what had you even go do this work? I'm just curious. Were you like had a desk job or what? was was Uma doing?

Uma (18:40)
my gosh, well, this is like just me doing my market research because my brain works that way. But before that, like my gateway into this work, into the hands-on work was actually sex education. I was a certified fertility awareness educator. So teaching people all about their fertility cycles, menstrual cycle health, perimenopause, menopause, all the things.

Melissa D (18:55)
Mm.

That's awesome.

Uma (19:06)
and holistic sex education. So like, what are all your body parts? What's the anatomy of arousal networks? What's going on there? And it was all very much like programs inside of sometimes like with women's mystery schools or couples struggling with their fertility, like a broad range. It could be from some of the esoteric spaces that wanted like the embodiment science body womb cycle stuff, or, you know, just people who were

Melissa D (19:13)
Hmm.

Uma (19:33)
wanting to use this method as a form of preventing birth control without having to take stuff. And it was, I was teaching, I was teaching in these spaces, but what would happen again and again and again is that everyone talked about sex. I mean, if you talk about vaginal secretions with people, ultimately it's gonna go into arousal fluids, sex life. And what really struck me was how much pain and wounding.

Melissa D (19:39)
Gotcha.

Uma (20:00)
was present in the realm of intimacy and sex, even amongst couples who had come to me because they were on a fertility journey wanting to conceive and yet their intimacy was a place of pain and lacking.

Melissa D (20:05)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (20:19)
it wasn't being tended to and yet, you these people would share again and again with me and I ended up speaking and teaching more and more and more about sex, sexuality, intimacy, whatnot. And then I, and then I remember having my own personal experience where there was an element of like the value in having a somatic based experience of learning something.

with the body and like my frustration with the limitation of just teaching it verbally, yes, we love to talk and yes, that's wonderful. But you know, as Betty Martin often says, it isn't until you have a body based experience of the thing that that's then what transforms. And that is actually when I started looking up like body based sex education with the body. And that's when I found Kaffen.

Melissa D (21:02)
Yep. Yep.

Yeah.

Uma (21:12)
I found Kauffin, I found a beautiful YouTube video about Kauffin speaking of actually dearmoring and I completely fell in love. And then I was like, all the things that Kauffin offers, all the books that they've ever written, must read, must do, must do all the things. And from then I went down into the rabbit hole of like as many hands-on body-based, sensual, erotic, trauma, different angles.

Melissa D (21:25)
wonderful.

Uma (21:38)
Yeah, I geeked out on it and I had a desire to create a business that would be successful. Because as much as I love teaching about body, body literacy, which is also something really missing, it wasn't as lucrative as I wanted it to be. Then enter the sensual spicy work and kind of

Melissa D (21:55)
Yep. Then enter spicy work.

Amazing.

Uma (22:03)
Yeah, there was definitely an element of what I found to be dynamics happening also in my personal life that felt inspiring as well. So I'm like, if I can bridge what I'm seeing here with actual teaching, guiding, and creating sacred containers for growth, for nourishment, I think I can do this. And it was definitely a leap. Like, okay.

Melissa D (22:26)
Amazing.

Uma (22:27)
Yeah.

Melissa D (22:27)
Yeah. And so, yeah, you've got this curiosity. You're kind of following it. You're feeling it. And then you reach out to other people that are offering some, you know, there's lots of different doorways to go through. There's Tantra. There's BDSM. There's, you know, etc, etc. So when you started finding other practitioners and saying, wow, they got their stuff together. I want to, you know, do a session with them. Then what'd you find?

Uma (22:51)
Yeah, so if I actually had my idea and structure kind of put together, I used to own a restaurant like in my previous life, like in Miami growing up there. look at that. know, being a restauranteur, and when you are a restauranteur and you own your own place and you, you you hire people and you advertise and you're like catering to who's here, who's my, just the way that you think when you.

Melissa D (23:03)
Me too. We're restaurateurs.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (23:18)
and you have that entrepreneur mind and you've owned your own business. And especially in the hospitality space, especially in the hospitality space. So I went off and I had a few conversations with some of these other practitioners and providers in different realms. And I found that, first of all, they weren't charging as much as they could be charging.

Melissa D (23:42)
Okay.

Uma (23:43)
I believe that. After doing some of the research and then seeing how they did their work, it also depended on where they were. I spoke to people who were in New York and I spoke to people who were in the Miami-Fort Lauderdale area.

Melissa D (23:55)
The prices

are so low in Florida. Like shockingly low, you know, and you compare them to like, OK, we've got a regular therapeutic massage and then any kind of sensual, including genitals, tantric. It's it's not much more or wasn't last time I looked. wild.

Uma (23:58)
Yes, they are! Isn't that wild? Yes.

No, it isn't.

It is, I even had, you know, one Tantrika and she was like, I don't know if it's like a, if it's like a ocean side beach thing. Like what's going on, that the rates here, people just, they won't pay more. And that changes drastically when you're up in the Northeast, around New York, I mean even in Philadelphia. My approach was this, I decided, okay.

You know, there are people out there, like high end, full service, escorts with beautiful websites, luxurious images. And I looked at their work. I didn't reach out to them, but I looked at their work. I looked at what they had up. And then I thought to myself, I didn't necessarily see myself reflected in that region, in the area where I was.

there wasn't somebody who was doing something exactly or similar to what I had in mind because I have this kind of weaving in of different lineages and disciplines into my offering. And then I decided, well, I'm going to position myself like just a tinge below what a high end...

person doing full service, which I'm not doing, I am not offering. Because this isn't just an experience. This is, this is deep work. This deep thematic work. Yeah. You know, and the beauty is that I have had so many clients who have transitioned from relationships with escorts, and they were still

Melissa D (25:37)
deep somatic work. Yes. Yeah.

Uma (25:51)
seeking something that they weren't quite finding in those dynamics. And it is, and I always get so excited and fascinated by those particular clients who end up transitioning into the deep intimacy work that is like, this is what they were looking for. They just didn't know it, didn't know how to find it. Couldn't name it because even in our culture, who's to say that, like,

Melissa D (25:56)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (26:18)
The intimate connection that I'm seeking is not in full union penetrative sex with someone. It's actually in a completely different dynamic than I expected.

Melissa D (26:25)
Right.

Yeah. And I also I mean, this is perfect to flow into just the stigma of people paying, you know, whether it's escorting, but, you know, something even deeper, you know, coming and working with a professional and. Yeah, what are you noticing there with the stigma?

Uma (26:47)
You know, that is such an interesting, such an interesting phenomenon, right? There's this, there's this idea that, that real connection, that something that feels genuine, that something that feels full of care is not something that you should have to pay for. It's something, or there's no benefit, or if you pay for it,

Melissa D (27:05)
Or there's no benefit of paying for it. Yeah.

Uma (27:10)
actually means that it wasn't real. It actually means that it's not authentic, you know, it just takes that away from it. And I see some clients, particularly men, struggle with that dynamic, that element of it, where they will often say, I don't want something transactional.

You know, I was really, and I understand that they may have entered into dynamics that felt with some providers who have a relationship that is transactional to their work. And that's okay. That exists, that happens. And yet, you know, I'm so curious to them as okay, describe a relationship. You know, sometimes I think, well, is the relationship with your current wife?

Melissa D (27:44)
Right.

Uma (27:57)
partner or maybe your children not transactional by nature. Do you not support them financially in some way shape or form and yet, you know, they adore you, you adore them. I mean, I get it. It's not sexual if we're talking about our children, but as far as like supporting financially and yet the relationship being real, but a doctor, a therapist, that there's no problem in this person placing hands on your body, pouring in their expectations.

expertise and their care in supporting you. And there is a cost to that. And it's never second guessed about whether or not the quality and value and authenticity of the work is, you know, should be should be put in question. And yet there are things like like love, like love and tenderness and, you know, the sweetness of

Melissa D (28:36)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (28:50)
of genuine compassion and care, a moment of real intimacy between two people. And why can that, why does that all of a sudden feel like, this is something that I shouldn't have to invest time and money. mean, time, yes, but money into, of course.

Melissa D (29:03)
Hmm.

Uma (29:09)
Of course you should. Everything of value in your life generally tends to require some level of investment. mean, your home, the house that you live in, the life that you've built. We live in an economy of money. Like that is the economy that we live in. is, for better or worse, even if we didn't like it, that is how we move, that is how we live.

Melissa D (29:25)
Right.

Uma (29:34)
mean, when you have a beloved in your life, if we're thinking of a classic dynamic, do you not like a dinner date, a trip, a getaway, a vacation, flowers? Like, you're investing, you're investing, absolutely. So imagine like investing in someone who is carving out time for you, specifically for you to pour in their expertise.

Melissa D (29:41)
Right?

You're investing and supporting. Yep.

Uma (30:00)
and their care and the quality of their attention and where you are at the center of this.

I mean, this would be a space to also argue like, is, you know, parenting, why do stay at home moms, you know, not get paid for the work that they do? It's like, you do it for free. But there's plenty of arguments there, right? That that might not be the actual correct thing. In some cases, they are not supported when they should be. But for the most part, a stay at home mom is able to be a stay at home mom and care for her children in her home because

Melissa D (30:15)
Alright. Right.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (30:34)
she is financially supported. It is only sustainable in a context in which she can, yeah, it's a generative dynamic. So.

Melissa D (30:43)
Yeah, beautiful. have, I have some clients that kind of build it into their health program. Like, okay, you know, I'm going to come in and I've been, I've been starting to do memberships to recently and just building, you know, a body work session and to get them to commit to it because otherwise it will go to the last of the thing of their own self care. You know, the last thing on their list. And then whenever they come in, they're like, my gosh,

I've been waiting all month or like, oh, wow, it's been four months. I really need to come in more often. I'm like, yeah, join the membership. You can come in, have your little island of pleasure or come in and learn something or come in and just get regulated and nurtured. And it's it's just so beautiful to offer that even a couple that I work with, you know, coming in, making a priority, including an in-date night, you know, it's the sweetest thing.

Uma (31:23)
Mm-hmm.

I love that. I love that idea, including it in date night. And yeah, the idea of a membership and a health care plan. Occasionally, a client will say, like, I am part of their health and wellness team. You're like, they're on a path to recovery. Oftentimes people who are like coming out of specific surgeries or things that have significantly impacted them and they have like their their physical doctor, their physical therapist, their clinical therapist, me.

Melissa D (31:49)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yup.

Uma (32:03)
And

I love it when they talk that way. It's like, yeah, this is absolutely an investment in your health and wellbeing. And there can be this team of professionals who contribute to you in this way. That's a beautiful perspective to have. I think it's very correct.

Melissa D (32:16)
Mm-hmm.

Wonderful. I'm curious to hear you speak about just this, you know, the touch starved, a lot of folks in our culture experience, you know, this isolation or being touch starved.

Uma (32:32)
very much. You know, one of the elements of that, and that I feel I saw that shift in my work was

They're so touch starved that when I wanted to start, you know, very, very consent forward and like almost back in the day when I really wanted to encourage that body sovereignty and that choice and voice practice.

Melissa D (32:57)
with the client coming in, you're kind of setting it up so that you're following some of the dynamics of the wheel, wheel of consent, those of you that know that, four quadrants, yeah.

Uma (33:01)
Yes.

Yes, exactly. What I came to learn is that, and this goes back and this ties into the way that I approach touch, that very, very slow touch is that we almost need to meet them. I almost need to meet my clients at this baseline where they're not ready to ask for what they want because

They're so undernourished. They're so undernourished. Right? We need an infusion first. We need to feel resourced enough to even have a sense for our body's innate desire, to have it even feel alive enough to have a desire. And so therein lies that creating the safety, the gentle presence, and that

Melissa D (33:32)
Yeah.

Uma (33:55)
really slow, loving touch that then kind of begins to lay down those basic nutrients, you know, just and then gently infusing it, tend the soil. Yeah. And you know, the interesting thing is just like somebody who shows up like dehydrated and they cross the desert, you can't give them too much water at once or too much food at once. It'll make them sick. So there is, there is a wisdom in going like very, very slowly and

Melissa D (34:05)
Tend the soil. Yes.

Uma (34:24)
really care, being very careful about the pace in which you move forward with that nourishment. And in many ways, that is what I do. It's not like, let me just throw everything at this person at once. It's let's start here so that, so that when they're okay, nourished enough. So oftentimes I will bring them into a deeply somatic body based experience that gives me enough time to have them feel

you know, comfortable enough with me, really bringing them into, okay, this is someone that is going to respect their boundaries, that's going to take good care of them, is attentive, you know, get them comfortable in my space. As you know, my spaces are very important to me, the environment, the cleanliness, the order, everything that it just impacts the body right away, like, ⁓ okay, they can start to land. And then when they've landed and soften just enough into it,

Melissa D (35:04)
Yeah.

Everything.

Uma (35:16)
we can go into the touch component. And that is that like first layer of nourishment that they so need. And my clients stay with me for the vast majority of my clients will always come back and again and again. Like I, that is another thing that I love about my practice center. And that is an element that I would love to sort of explore and like teach other practitioners. What is it that's bringing them back?

that brings them into a long-term relationship that creates this kind of, this level of trust and in the continuity of the work, value in the continuity of the work. And I mean, again and again, they come in with one countenance and they are completely different on their way out. It's like the brightness in the face, the sparkle in the eyes, the expression.

Melissa D (36:01)
Yeah,

Uma (36:07)
And little by little, desire, curiosity, courage, all of these things start to bubble up. But first and foremost, we needed some, yeah, basic nourishment.

Melissa D (36:15)
Mm-hmm.

some minerals. You know, I'm curious. Have you ever had a clients come in and just not really get it and kind of want, you know, to fulfill the fantasy or like want this peak experience and they're like, wait, I'm used to this certain thing that should happen here. I don't get it.

Uma (36:39)
Hmm.

would say the closest experience to that. Okay, very rarely because of my onboarding process, because of like, I think the wording and the language on my website, and then by the time that you get into my private page and you look at those offerings and then you reach out to me and then we schedule a call, an introductory call, and I like to get pretty in-depth in those.

Melissa D (36:49)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (37:08)
Like if somebody's not totally clear or it's not a match right away, like I will feel, oh yeah, I pick it out. I absolutely do. So for the most part, that's something that I don't have, that doesn't happen very often. I would say the only time, and I'm thinking maybe like two specific scenarios would be that a client...

Melissa D (37:12)
Right. You can pick it out. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Uma (37:35)
isn't very expressive. And I do work with people who have, you know, severe social anxiety, that there is maybe something going on for them, that verbal communication is not the easiest flow. Okay, so, and I do love working with people who, I love work, as long as I feel like there's a genuine interest and there is this curiosity and I can feel a little bit of that vulnerability on the other side.

Melissa D (37:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (38:01)
You know, I'll definitely dig in and jump in. I mean, I've had clients that are mute or deaf, and we have figured ways of communicating through the session. yeah. yeah. But I have had clients where when they finally felt safe and welcomed and nourished and resourced enough to express their desires and

Melissa D (38:04)
Mm-hmm. Beautiful.

⁓ that's wonderful. Yeah.

Uma (38:26)
their kinks and spiciness comes out and all of a sudden, yeah, the layers. I mean, I have gotten to points with clients where I'm like, okay, I love this. I love that you are exploring and expressing this and I can sense that you wanna go deeper and further in a direction and I may not be the person to go along.

Melissa D (38:30)
Yeah, the layers.

Uma (38:52)
with them in that direction. And that's the moment where I start looking at my network of people, who can I recommend? Who do I think is a great match? So that, it's like, here you go. I think that there's a great practitioner that you can dive into this with who would be so supportive and aligned in that realm. And that's generally when I feel like, okay, we're going into territory that I think is not exactly

Melissa D (39:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uma (39:21)
where my big yes-er is or my mastery, I'm more than likely gonna know someone that I can introduce you to. Or in the very least, I'll be like, you know, if you want me to screen someone or get in touch with someone that you find interesting, send me their info and I'll be like, from colleague to colleague, we'll get in touch and yeah.

Melissa D (39:38)
Beautiful.

That's so needed.

I love that. I love that. You know, before we wrap up, I want to hear about, let's see, you put the Priestess Business Model Project. But before we unpack that, is there something that you can share with us that

you are learning about yourself in your own exploration, your own sexuality, your own kind of journey.

Uma (40:06)
Yes, absolutely. So as much as I value the beauty of slowing down, my sessions are inside of two, three, four hour containers generally. And yes, I do longer sessions. Those are a little bit more rare and unique.

But when I bring the exploration and the curiosity around slow intimacy in my personal life, in my own personal experiences, which is probably why I'm like, I'm so into it and I just want more of it because I have had the privilege and the luxury of meeting with a lover who

has a real devotion to a very deep practice of slow sex, slow intimacy of every kind. like that is his, that is what he has refined in a very active devotional practice for himself and what he brings into a container with his lover. And to be almost challenged by someone else's

Melissa D (40:56)
Hmm.

Uma (41:14)
excruciating slowness. Listen, absolutely perfect, totally mind blowing. The idea, my gosh. So for me, know, we're talking about actually going into states of sustained high arousal where the body, even for me, I could hit that place where I want, like I want the next thing. I'm like,

Melissa D (41:17)
Perfect. Perfect.

You're like, ugh.

Yeah

Uma (41:41)
I want the next thing. feel the urgency or the desire for more, but I don't get it. It's not given to me in that moment. I actually am staying in the tension of wanting for, yeah, a little bit of that. definitely it is very sexy, but there's, it's sort of like, ⁓ just staying with it.

Melissa D (41:53)
It's like a playful denial happening a little bit. Yeah. A sexier version maybe. I don't know. It's pretty sexy regardless, but yeah.

Uma (42:07)
what is it like to be this turned on and to almost crave a little more or a little release or a little something, but then to just stay right here, right there. And then after hours and you know, days, that practice softening into that where all of a sudden now the body goes into this really deep meditative state like,

Melissa D (42:16)
It just keeps it right there, yeah.

need to be scraped off the ceiling yeah okay that's so good

Uma (42:34)
that calms down. It's like, this is what this is. And now the intensity almost, it dips. And you would think, okay, this is a different kind of deliciousness because the other thing was really delicious. But now this is something that is so...

Like it takes you on a journey. I will say that. Like when we think about a journey and you know that even the term journey is rarely used in sex. It's often used in plant medicine spaces, a medicine journey, a psychedelic journey, whatever journey, ayahuasca journey. Okay, a sex journey where you are actually...

Melissa D (42:52)
Hmm.

Yes.

Uma (43:14)
high on everything that's been activated over like this amount of energetic exchange and slowness and now you are on that. That is what I am completely geeking out and want more of in my personal intimacy right now. I'm like, wow, wow, wow. my gosh. We have this incredible capacity.

Melissa D (43:21)
Yum.

Yum.

Uma (43:36)
and it's really, really fun to get high on sex. Like, and go into that journey and see what else is possible there. Yeah, that's.

Melissa D (43:41)
Mm-hmm.

Would you put it in the category of tantra? Or tantric altered states flow state, you know?

Uma (43:51)
oooo

Yeah, you know, I have an interesting relationship with using tantra or ta- It is tantric. I would say sure. Absolutely. I think that they would exist under that. But I say it in the sense that if somebody were to just devote themselves to the slowness, to the presence, to just being with, you know how, like, there are people who have found their spiritual enlightened states oneness.

Like out in completely isolated from religious philosophies. It's it's they just discovered what's there and available to them. I think it's been inside much more inside of those containers versus any kind of umbrella of thinking about a tantric approach or and that is something that I I would say I

I distill in my work, I don't ever talk to people about chakras and moving their energy because they get so in their heads about it. But when I hear Tantra Masters, of course there are some teachers that I read that I love their materials and they describe these, the dissolving, the oneness, the altered states and I'm just like, aha, yeah, yep.

Melissa D (44:47)
Yeah, me neither. Yeah.

Hmm?

Yep, that's

it. Yeah, wonderful. ⁓ Yeah, thank you, Uma. Yeah, before we hop off, do you want to give us a little sprinkle of the Priestess business model project?

Uma (45:07)
That's it! Yeah! Totally.

Yeah, think the sprinkle of the Priestess Business Model Project is my love. I love women. I love women who are doing work. I love women who are in their artistry and offering something with a passion. And I have an incredible community of colleagues that in many ways I've been mentoring for a while here and there when women are needing support in their work. And it's just something I've done just from my heart.

But I am seeing, like, I continue to repeat myself again and again and again and in different contexts. And I've been inspired from them as well to, like, put something together that can, a transmission that can be offered for women who are really wanting to take their work to a level that feels sustainable, sustainable and that can, yeah, that can really grow. I work a lot and I have...

Melissa D (46:06)
Mm-hmm.

Uma (46:12)
a solid practice and I moved cities and I rebuilt that fairly quickly, there's something that I want to share. Like, I don't want to hoard this like whatever, I'm doing something really well, lucky me. It's like, no, I want to show other women how to do it. I want them to feel really solid and grounded and supported in their life through the work that they do. So yeah, that's what I'm excited about.

Melissa D (46:24)
Beautiful!

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Beautiful. I

love that. it's mentorship is is I want to hear more people prioritizing mentorship. You know, think of like. Yeah, I remember when I was like picking out my mentor, I mean, I've had many, but like I was looking for.

Uma (46:47)
Yes!

Melissa D (46:54)
the older woman, the woman with way more experience, the person who has lived through some stuff. So I don't know, while you were speaking, I was like, you're gonna be this beautiful, radiant, silver fox mentor. And it's so needed, especially, I mean, in all kinds of work. I don't wanna say especially this work, actually. It's needed everywhere.

Uma (47:07)
You

It is. I agree. There's so much value in having someone tell you, listen, you can do it. You need just these pieces. Put this together. You've got this. You know, think about this, this and that. And having someone to go back to and like, what do I, what do I do about this scenario? And get you on your way until we can share blueprints and then people create their version of it, that it's their particular essence. But there's this,

Melissa D (47:30)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Uma (47:40)
Yeah, there's blueprints, there's that map that if we can just pass around and on and forward for each other, there's a real beauty in that and care and community and support that just feels correct, especially in this work. Yeah.

Melissa D (47:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

I love that. Yeah. Uma James, thank you so much for tuning in and being here and sharing your wisdom.

Uma (47:59)
Yeah.

Thank you for having me. It was such a treat. I was just so touched by the invitation. So thank you.

Melissa D (48:11)
Wonderful. So I'll put all your contact info in the show notes. again, thank you so much for being here and I look forward to seeing you soon.

Uma (48:20)
How else do I?

Melissa D (48:21)
Ciao!

Uma (48:22)
Ciao!