What Your Prostate is Trying to Tell You ft. Charlie Glickman

After 35 years in the sexuality field, sex educator and coach Charlie Glickman joins Melissa D for an honest, shame-free conversation about prostate pleasure, body safety, and why most people are asking the wrong questions about sex.

What we get into: Prostate pleasure 101 · navigating fear around anal play · why safety is the foundation of all pleasure · the nervous system nobody's talking about · vibrators & desensitization · treating sex like a science experiment · the PT appointment that changed everything · and the carabiner hack you didn't know you needed.

Find Charlie: makesexeasy.com

Find Melissa: www.bodyjoy.org / @bodyjoyintimacyschool

After Office Hours is for adults exploring intimacy, embodiment, and erotic growth — honestly and without shame.

Transcript

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (00:00)
Most people don't realize that because the way you know that you feel safe is you feel relaxed.

and how relaxed is anybody feeling these days.

Melissa D (00:07)
Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (00:08)
And I'm not saying that to make light of it. Like literally, you know you feel safe because you relax and maybe you yawn and you sit back and you're all mellow and you've got your nice drink or your snacks with your friends, whatever it is. Nobody yawns on a roller coaster.

So the thing that I've been working with lately is how do we find that in our systems as a foundation, as a container, and then we start bringing in the excitement, the arousal, the passion, the erotic energy on top of that.

Melissa D (00:50)
Welcome to the Body Joy After Office Hours

Melissa D (00:53)
Tonight's guest is Charlie Glickman, PhD sex and relationship coach, somatic sexuality educator and sexological body worker. He's been working in this field for over 35 years and some of his areas of focus include sex, shame, sex positivity, queer issues, masculinity and gender. He's...

Just one of my dear friends and colleagues and inspired my work early on. Tonight we got to chat about prostates, one of his specialties, his thoughts on warmup before trying new things, and also his approach to adding newness and novelty in relationship. I hope you enjoy this

Melissa D (01:35)
Charlie

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (01:36)
Hi, Melissa, lovely to see you.

Melissa D (01:37)
Thank

you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (01:42)
It's a pleasure. It's always fun to talk to you no matter what the situation.

Melissa D (01:44)
Yeah.

Yeah, we've had a couple of situations over the years, haven't we?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (01:49)
That sounded dirty the way you said that. That sounded much dirtier than the reality.

Melissa D (01:49)
So I...

It did.

Everyone gets to create a story now of like what's Melissa referring to? But I want to start with going back into even just my own memory of how we met. My goodness, I was living in Nevada City, California and you were, I don't know if you were in the Bay Area or just teaching there. Okay, yeah. You were living in Oakland. Okay, and we hadn't.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (01:59)
It's true.

Yeah, I was living in Oakland.

Melissa D (02:17)
connected really yet, but I was following your work because I had your book, which I have on my bookshelf, The Ultimate Guide to Prostate Pleasure. And I was bringing up teachers into Nevada City, into the group that I have, and I was just kind of roaming around and learning, and you were teaching a class specifically about prostate and booty play, and it was wonderful. So I drove down to the Bay Area, checked into the class.

and I loved just how explicit and clear and just inviting it was, because I'd never been to something like that. ⁓

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (02:52)
Wow,

I didn't know that was your first experience like that. wow, that's really cool. That's cool.

Melissa D (02:56)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Yeah. And then later I was kind of tracking you. I think we were at a sexual health something or rather and then and then maybe, you know, I was more on your radar because I would just come and just talk to you. and then I remember calling you when I was thinking about doing the psychological bodywork training. And I remember you giving me some good advice on that.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (03:17)
I'm really glad to hear that. I love, I've always enjoyed helping people get into the sexuality field, whatever their entry point is, whether that's therapist or sexological body worker or coach or you just want to geek out about it. I love that and I've really been enjoying seeing and hearing about how that's really been amazing journey for you.

Melissa D (03:39)
It has been a journey. ⁓ And you were sharing with me that you've been kind of in this world for 35 years. So I'm curious, what were some of those earlier days like for you? What were you up to? What was inspiring you? Where was your where does it begin?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (03:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

What's my origin story? The radioactive spider moment. So we're going to go in the way back machine back to 1989 when I was a sophomore in college. So if you want to do the math, you can. at the time, there were no university sponsored LGBT student organizations nowhere in the country. But what we had on campus

Melissa D (03:58)
Exactly.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (04:21)
was a student group. It was the LGBTA. The B had just been added. And the year after I got there, I believe, was when the T got added. So that kind of situates it historically. And I started doing LGBT outreach to the incoming students. As a student club, we were invited in to do these sort of diversity trainings for them.

And the thing to remember about this is HIV was first widely recognized at least 1984, 1985 or so. We didn't have a treatment for it until 96. So in 1989, there was no way I was going to be able to do an outreach event and not have someone ask me about HIV and safer sex.

So, okay, now I need to learn about safer sex and condoms. But then you need to learn how to talk to people about how to use them, how to talk to your partner about them, how to navigate it when your partner's not so into it. And once you start doing that, everyone asks you how to give a better blowjob.

Melissa D (05:26)
Mm-hmm, it all leaves. ⁓

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (05:28)
It all just leads

in. But I really found I love talking to people about their relationships, their sexual experiences, their sexual expressions. And so I've been doing that in one way or another ever since. I've worked at nonprofits, I've worked retail, now I'm a freelance coach. But mostly it's like I love hearing people's and I love helping people.

Melissa D (05:42)
Hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (05:52)
have a better experience. I know I can confidently say that right now in this moment, whenever you're listening to this, that there's somebody out there having a more pleasurable sexual experience because of something I was able to share with them. Yeah, that makes me really happy. It really does.

Melissa D (06:08)
Mmm, that's beautiful.

Yeah, I'm having a flashback of maybe it was a conference that I saw you at you were talking about kits or like this little bag that you put together for, you know, events or parties. And I was like, again, just maybe this was like 10 years ago. So maybe something it was it was it was back there a little bit. It was before I went to Svisi, San Francisco sex information. And so it's just you you really put a lot of ideas.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (06:28)
It's probably longer than that, maybe. I don't know. Maybe.

Melissa D (06:41)
⁓ In my head I was like, wow, okay, yes, of course you want to go to an event and like have some gloves and have lube and have these things that again just wasn't on my radar because people weren't really talking about it.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (06:41)
Yeah

Yeah. Yeah, and it's an interesting thing because I'm a Jewish Virgo, so I really worry about these things. Like, when I go to a thing, I want all the stuff I might need. Where's my water bottle? And do I have this? Do I have that? And so it just made sense to me. Actually, I recently learned a new trick for going to sex parties that is relevant here, since we're talking about kids for things. I got this tip from a woman who...

Melissa D (07:00)
you

Ooh, yeah, let's hear it.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (07:18)
was so tired of losing her lingerie because she kept buying black lingerie and it gets lost at the party. So she...

Melissa D (07:24)
She's tiptoeing

around at the end trying to shine things to find it. Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (07:27)
Right, so she had her

little safer sex kit that she brings to parties. She put a carabiner on it so that when she takes off her panties, she just clips it to her bag. Right, very nerdy, very prepared for a certain niche audience. That is intense foreplay right there. So add a carabiner to your toy bag is what I'm saying.

Melissa D (07:39)
Very sexy, very nerdy also.

Okay,

yeah, I'm gonna do that. That's such a good idea.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (07:53)
Yeah, I saw you light up a little bit when I said that, so I knew.

Melissa D (07:56)
Yes,

that's wonderful. I'm curious, what are something that you have been tracking maybe over the years that you kind of believed about sex or intimacy that you have a different view on or that you've rethought for yourself?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (08:11)
Ooh. Well, when I started

out, and it was before everybody had the internet in their pockets, so a lot of sex education at that time was really talking about how to have sex, how to find the G-spot, how a cock ring works, and there's still a place for that. But because so much of that information has shifted and is easily accessible, although you have to know where the good sources are,

Melissa D (08:26)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (08:36)
What I've really noticed is this shift away from how to and more towards why to. What's my desire here? What am I trying to get out of it? How do we create the experience that we want? ⁓ It's been this really interesting shift and maybe this is more about my work and who I'm attracting to me these days, but that's been interesting to me.

Melissa D (08:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (09:02)
the explosion of sex information on the internet, I think it changed what sex educators do.

Melissa D (09:09)
Right, I have that same experience instead of articles of like, okay, just find the G-spot. Now it's more about, okay, yeah, we found the G-spot, but how do we actually attune to it? So the information is starting to shift and the teachings. I'm really curious ⁓ how you started to find the sexological bodywork more hands-on approach, coming from...

you know, being at the store and, you know, working with the place in San Francisco, like, what did that journey look like for you?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (09:37)
You know, I was originally introduced to what we now call sexological bodywork before that term was coined because I injured my lower back. I herniated the disc between L5 and S1. So very painful. I, my whole pelvis went into spasm to try to support the injury. And ⁓ I asked around like, who should I see about this? And ⁓ I got a referral to Chester Maynard.

who was, yeah, Chester, for those of you who aren't familiar with his name, Chester and Joseph Kramer were two of the people who really created the modality of sexological bodywork. And Chester did pelvic massage on me, including some internal massage, and was able to release my lower back in two sessions. And yeah, it's really.

Melissa D (10:05)
wow.

Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, doesn't he

kind of specialize in the whole pelvis? Him specifically, right?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (10:32)
Yeah,

yeah, that was his thing. He was sort of the ground breaker in terms of doing some of these modalities. And so I had that simmering in the background. knew about it. But the other, what really inspired me to follow up on it was that I wanted to write a book about sex and shame. And I had been studying shame for a number of years. I could talk about how it worked on a socio-cultural level.

community level, family, relationship, individual, but the piece that was missing was how to work with shame in the body. And I remember talking to Chester about this training that was developing and I figured I'll sign up for the training, I'll learn how they do it, and then I'll write this book. And ⁓ in the training, you you do a lot of practice sessions, you recruit as many friends as you can.

Melissa D (11:05)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (11:22)
The second time, not the first time, but the second time I put my hands on somebody's body, I knew that this wasn't something I could learn just by taking the training. I needed to do the work for a while. And that has been true. And I still haven't written the book because I have other things that have popped up since then.

Melissa D (11:37)
Mm-hmm.

Are you going to write the book?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (11:45)
Well, there's a different book that I'm working on at the moment that incorporates a lot of those ideas, but I'm going in a slightly different direction with this one. Yeah.

Melissa D (11:48)
Okay.

Wonderful. Yeah.

So I think this came up on our last call too, when we were just catching up, but you were that was the first time I had heard you talking about your work with shame. And I'm curious, you know, what kind of people are coming to your office and what are some patterns that you're seeing and how you're kind of working with that? Because what we do is beyond or I want I don't want to say beyond like it's better, but it's, you know, it's not talk therapy.

It's very hands on. So yeah, I'm curious what patterns you're seeing coming into your office and.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (12:26)
Yeah.

Well, these days, I'm actually doing less hands-on sexological body work. ⁓ I used to do quite a bit of that, and these days it's really shifted. I don't know why, because ⁓ my website hasn't changed, right? It's all still there. It's not like I took a page down. But a lot of what I've been exploring the last few years is actually working with...

Melissa D (12:33)
Mm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (12:49)
the human body, I was going to say the nervous system, but this really transcends the nervous system, working with the human body so that we can access safety within our own somas. Because so many people are walking through the world at a baseline of unsafety.

Melissa D (13:01)
Hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (13:07)
and him.

Melissa D (13:07)
And I would argue

like most people don't even realize that.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (13:10)
Well, I agree.

Most people don't realize that because the way you know that you feel safe is you feel relaxed.

and how relaxed is anybody feeling these days.

Melissa D (13:19)
Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (13:20)
And I'm not saying that to make light of it. Like literally, you know you feel safe because you relax and maybe you yawn and you sit back and you're all mellow and you've got your nice drink or your snacks with your friends, whatever it is. Nobody yawns on a roller coaster.

So the thing that I've been working with lately is how do we find that in our systems as a foundation, as a container, and then we start bringing in the excitement, the arousal, the passion, the erotic energy on top of that.

And that's been a lot of what I've been working with, actually, much less about how to have sex and more about how to be in the right...

Melissa D (13:51)
When you said yawning. Oh, go ahead.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (14:01)
I was going to say frame of mind, but really frame of heart to do it. Yeah.

Melissa D (14:04)
Right? Yeah, you

were bringing up yawning. And so much of different cultures think that yawning is like boredom or rude or like sleepy. But it's actually a sign of relaxation and comfort, would say. Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (14:20)
Yeah,

I agree and also being tired, right? So it's ambiguous, but you know, if I'm sitting with a friend or my partner or a client and we're talking and I see them yawning, I know that they're feeling safe.

Melissa D (14:26)
Mm-hmm.

I'm wondering, so if someone knows that they're feeling a little like unsafe, how do they find you specifically? I guess someone needs to go, hey, I'm feeling not safe right now. Or maybe like the search engine leads them to your website.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (14:47)
you

Melissa D (14:56)
and then they lead to book or, you I'm wondering, do you do a talk somewhere? Like, how do people know that they want to come work with you?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (15:03)
Well, if I had the answer to that, would... That's the big SEO question right there, isn't it? ⁓ It's tricky because in this profession, there's always this question of how explicit should I be on my website to attract potential clients, but does that open me up to risk both potential legal risk, depending on what I'm offering, but also attracting people who are not the best fit for me?

Melissa D (15:08)
Right, right.

Right.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (15:29)
For me, my blog goes a long way towards it. I can't tell you how many times somebody has contacted me for a Get Acquainted call and they tell me that they've literally read every single post on my website.

Melissa D (15:43)
Hmm, yeah, I know that feeling.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (15:44)
You know, and yeah,

well, and I think that that's especially true for men working in this field. You know, for a variety of reasons that nobody out there needs me to mansplain. You know, I need to prove that I am safe to work with in a way that you, Melissa, are usually assumed to be safe.

Melissa D (16:06)
Absolutely.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (16:07)
You know, and so that's why I wrote so many different blog posts, is I need people to get a sense of me to decide I'm a good fit. I also offer a one hour get acquainted call because I know plenty of coaches who can make that decision in 15 minutes, like is this a good fit? And more power to you. But for me, it takes longer. You know, I need to know that there is already trust building before we even start our first.

Melissa D (16:26)
Hm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (16:32)
session. I invest a little time into it, but it pays off.

Melissa D (16:37)
Yeah, I'm glad you

mentioned that because, you know, I do like a discovery call as well and not everyone is a good fit. And I think it's really beautiful that we're able to instead of just taking clients and just kind of raking it in, we actually sit with them and decide and then we can either refer them to someone else or maybe give them some more resources. ⁓ Yeah, that's beautiful. What are the things that you're looking for personally when you're sitting with somebody deciding if you want to work with them?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (16:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

That's a really good question. Part of it is a vibe. Part of it is like, how do I feel here? And I say that because in addition to sexological bodywork, the other modality that I primarily use is sematica, which was developed by two former teachers of the sex bod program. So there's a lot of overlap here. But the sematica approach...

Melissa D (17:05)
Mm-hmm.

See?

Right?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (17:26)
I engage in real relationship with my clients. That doesn't mean that we're lovers. authentic relationship covers any kind of connection. But I have to like you enough to want to hang out with you.

Melissa D (17:41)
Yeah, if you're doing an arc of sessions, yeah, it's gotta feel comfortable and yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (17:41)
the

Yeah. I mean, fortunately,

I like a lot of people. So, you know, I'm a big fan of individual people. The human race as a whole, I'm a little mixed on, but individually, I think we're pretty great. ⁓ At least my people are pretty great. I won't speak for everyone. But so some of it is that. Some of what I look for is how open they are to

Melissa D (17:57)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (18:11)
my suggestions, especially if what I'm asking them is like, okay, could we pause and just pause here for a minute? You know, can we pause and take a breath? And if I feel like they are open and receptive to that, then we can continue forward. That's like the entry point for everything. Can we take a breath together? And I think the last one is like...

Melissa D (18:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (18:34)
I sometimes get people coming to me because they want to learn like, you know, where's my prostate? And that's fine. I can do those sessions. That's pretty straightforward. But what I really look for is like, somebody who's on a journey, somebody who's here because there's something they are moving towards is really fun to work with.

I love working with people who are moving towards pleasure rather than moving away from pain. I can work with people who are moving away from pain. But my hope is that we can get to a place where we're moving towards pleasure.

Melissa D (19:00)
Hmm.

Hmm. And what are some of the ways that you introduce that concept in your sessions?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (19:14)
Well first I do a whole lot of boundary setting. Like, like, let's... I don't do any physical contact with anybody until we both have confidence that they will be able to tell me if there's something that's not working for them.

Melissa D (19:18)
Okay.

Yeah, that's so vital.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (19:33)
And also, we both have to have confidence that if they slip up, because nobody's perfect, we sometimes don't realize, I should have said something five minutes ago. That happens. And so I don't want perfection, but I do need to be able to trust them that if that happens, that they will own that they didn't honor their own boundaries. And my commitment is that if I'm inattentive or I slip up and I'm not

Melissa D (19:53)
Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (19:58)
holding things solid, then I will acknowledge that too. So we have to do all of that before we do any hands-on of anything. And I think that's true for anybody in this work, but especially for those of us who are men. five times as much for men who work with female clients.

Melissa D (20:02)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yes.

Yes. Yeah, we, there's a couple different groups that I kind of work and teach with and there is the triadic model that's set up. And, you know, when there's a man working with a female body, there's generally a woman also in the mix somehow, helping just to kind of just put up some, you know, some safety and some guards there.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (20:16)
for reasons.

Melissa D (20:38)
just so everyone's comfortable because sometimes clients are coming in and they're not doing a big long intake, but they're there for a retreat, for example. And so we just try to set them up with as much resources as possible. Yeah, yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (20:53)
It's a big one. So we do all of that first. And then there's an exercise that I got from Jessica Allen in Portland that is a really great way to help people locate safety in their bodies. If you don't know what safety feels like. And I'll describe it. It involves three sitting positions. Sitting like you're back against the wall with your legs out in front of you so that your body's at a 90 degree angle.

Then there's leaning back on a bunch of pillows so that your body's at like a 45 degree angle. Right? Right. That. And then there's lying flat on the floor maybe with a pillow under your head. And so what I do is I ask you to sit in the first posture and then on a scale of one to ten, how relaxed do you feel in this moment? And the exact number doesn't actually matter.

Melissa D (21:22)
I kind of want to do this as you're saying it.

Hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (21:41)
Because then we switch to the second position and you feel into it. And then I ask you again, do you feel more relaxed, less relaxed or about the same? And if it has changed in either direction, how do you know? What's telling you you feel less relaxed here? ⁓ I noticed my chest is feeling tight or my fists are clenched or I'm just not feeling like I can settle into this.

Melissa D (22:06)
Hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (22:06)
That's how you know when you feel relaxed. That's how you know when you feel safe. That's the foundation for your pleasure.

Melissa D (22:13)
That's beautiful. Yeah, the there's a lot of couples in particular or women and just in my practice that want you know, the squirting orgasms or the heightened of pleasure that they read about or see about and creating safety is the first first thing.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (22:14)
Yeah.

Yeah, actually, especially with the G-spot ejaculation, almost everybody who experiences it says that it's about relaxing and letting go rather than squeezing and tightening. There's this thing that I've noticed, which is that when we don't have a strong container,

Melissa D (22:42)
Right?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (22:51)
the relationship isn't solid enough or I'm having a bad day and I'm feeling wobbly or whatever and that relaxation, that safety isn't present. What we often do is make up for it with high stimulation.

Melissa D (23:04)
I've had that experience for sure. Yeah. I noticed, I mean, I can get safety at a party within a few moments with somebody or if it's someone that I'm dating, you know, again, the timeline doesn't really matter, but some things need to be there and I can see it and feel it when the safety isn't there. And it can be, man. And I, I'm so grateful that I can track it cause then I can help other people track it for themselves too. And maybe

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (23:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Melissa D (23:31)
shed some light on like some markers of things that are creating this state and then how to bring yourself back. ⁓

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (23:38)
Yeah,

I really, exactly, and the thing that I find so important in this is that if you are relaxed, you can have the most exquisite, mind-blowing, pleasurable, orgasmic experiences, maybe even from just like a very soft, slow touch. If you find yourself always adding more...

Melissa D (23:57)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (24:03)
more toys, more sensation, more people, more drugs. There's nothing wrong with any of those things inherently. But if you're always trying to turn the volume up to 11, maybe that's telling you that there's something going on that needs some attention.

Melissa D (24:17)
Yeah, possibly. Well, I want to get your professional opinion with vibrator specifically, because I have people that ask me, is this going to desensitize my vulva? And I have mixed opinions on it. I'm curious your take on that, like especially the magic wand that seems to be so popular in our field.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (24:22)
Yeah.

Yeah. So I think there's two things here. One is that as far as I know, nobody has ever done any actual research to determine whether high degrees of clitoral sensation cause numbing over time. So this is based on speculation and stories, but I don't think anybody's actually put it together. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don't think so.

Melissa D (24:58)
Like tested, tested the nerves.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (25:01)
I've talked to so many folks who have said that like they love the Hitachi, they love the magic wand, it's not Hitachi anymore, that's how long I've been doing this work is before the name change, the magic wand. And they can also set it aside and enjoy milder sensations. I guess maybe a good way to think of it is like, if you eat spicy food all the time.

Melissa D (25:10)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (25:24)
coming back to food, you know me, Melissa. If you eat spicy food all the time and then one day you go to eat somewhere and the food is very mild, at first you may think it's totally bland. And you might say, I can't taste anything here. But with a little bit of practice, you actually can learn to taste the different flavors that are present. ⁓

Melissa D (25:25)
Yeah.

Right.

to create more capacity

and have a larger range.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (25:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

So, will the magic wand numb your vulva out? Yes and no. Yes, if you let it and you don't like practice other things. But no, not if you do. That's my take on it anyway.

Melissa D (26:04)
Right? Yeah.

have a joke, because I quit using it on myself. I mean, I use it on perineums. ⁓ Because for me, feels like it erases my clit and I just can't feel anything. So I'm like, I don't want my clitoris.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (26:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Well,

and by the same token, like with nipple sensations, some people are like, don't even look at them. They're so sensitive. And other people are like, really pinch and twist as hard as you can. I love it.

Melissa D (26:26)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Amazing. So these are the things we get to discover about our own bodies. Like, you know, if you want a wider buffet and to have all kinds of different sensations, you get to actually do neuroplasticity and practice. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (26:32)
So yeah.

Yeah. One thing I do want

to add though is if you feel like you are working too hard to like find your arousal or find your orgasm, if you feel like you're trying too hard then you probably are and maybe there's a different direction to go.

Melissa D (27:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I want to double click on just your expertise in prostate pleasure. Yeah. I'm curious for people that might feel a little fear with exploring this or just kind of maybe they've explored it a little bit and they're like, eh, it doesn't really do anything. Like they don't feel what everyone is gushing about.

So do you want to talk about that a little bit? Okay.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (27:29)
Yeah, ⁓

sure. So the prostate really is similar to the G-spot in terms of sensations that it enjoys and toys that work for it. Obviously, the technique is a little different for anal versus vaginal play. But the reason why I say this is because there are folks who the very first time someone brushes against their G-spot, it's fireworks for them.

and there are folks who took a little time to learn how to enjoy it. There are people who can enjoy G-spot sensations right out of the gate without any foreplay at all. Just go for it. And there's other people who need lots of warm-up before the G-spot is ready to say hello. All of that is true for prostates. So...

If you're not sure, if it's not doing much for you, maybe there's a few things you could try. One thing you could try that I often recommend is start off doing something that's already a familiar pleasure. I actually say this about everything. If you're new to spanking and you you want your girlfriend to spank you for the first time, you've never done this before. Maybe before you bend over her lap and she grabs the hairbrush or whatever she's gonna do,

Melissa D (28:25)
Mmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (28:38)
Do something else first. Make out. Have some oral sex. Dirty talk. Flirt while you're at the restaurant. Start with your erotic energy above zero. So that's... Yeah. Yeah, bring the new thing in when you're already at a three or a four. Make it a side dish. And so with prostates, that's especially true. Get turned on first.

Melissa D (28:49)
Right, don't start with the new thing.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (29:00)
and then see if your prostate sensations shift.

Melissa D (29:04)
I like that. Yeah, and I mean, I already might know the answer to this, but I just want to ask you on here. There's a fair amount of people that are kind of afraid to kind of let pleasure around their booty holes. And I'm curious how you kind of work with that with clients that are afraid of what it might mean, uncomfortable with, you know, they have the whole

clenching and like, no, I don't want anything around there.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (29:32)
Well, like if somebody says, no, I don't want anything around there, that's all the answer I need. If they're coming to me, there's at least a part of them that wants to try something different, even if in that moment they're saying, not right now. So that already shifts things for me. But.

Melissa D (29:46)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (29:48)
So when we wrote the book, Aislinn and I, we surveyed, I forget how many people we surveyed, a lot of folks. And one of the questions that we asked was what were some of the things or what are some of the things that kept you from trying this? And we heard three answers over and over again. Two of them are gender inclusive. And those two are, is this going to hurt and is this going to get messy?

And the answers to those questions are not if you know what you're doing and here's everything you need to know about that. The third question or the third topic really shows up mostly for cisgender men but also for like non-binary folks who are assigned male at birth. I hear this come up there too, which is

Is this going to make me gay? Does this take away my masculinity? What does it mean that I'm taking on the quote unquote woman's role? What does all of that mean? And I also hear that from some women, right? Like I've had women say to me, you know, my boyfriend has expressed interest in this and now I just can't see him the same way that I used to. So, you know, there's, there's, this shows up for a lot of people.

Melissa D (30:40)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (30:55)
When that's present, that's when we need to find the story in the body. And not the story in the mind. Usually people are really practiced at telling you the back story about the time that this happened or that relationship or whatever. What I want to know is what's present in the body.

Melissa D (31:12)
Hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (31:13)
What's the sensation that you notice when you think about receiving prostate play?

Let's start there.

Melissa D (31:20)
I just had to take a big deep breath.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (31:22)
Yeah, right? What shows up there? And like I said, because people are coming to me because they want to explore that, they've already opened that up. If somebody is not a yes to it, you gotta let it go. Because nothing should ever go inside anybody's booty that they do not say yes to.

Melissa D (31:43)
Right, yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (31:44)
I mean, that's true for everybody and all of our orifices, but yes.

Melissa D (31:48)
Absolutely.

Yeah, I think what I find is one partner is really excited, the other one's terrified and they're trying to be good giving and game and it's like, what do we do? We're freaking out.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (31:59)
Well,

and the problem with that too is that the partner who's really excited, and I've been on both sides of this, like no judgment here, but when you're excited about a thing, it creates pressure. Because now my partner is worried about disappointing me that much more. So for folks who are in that kind of situation,

If you can come to it, the goal of an experience is not to have an orgasm. Like when you're in the learning phase of it, the goal is not to have an orgasm. The goal is to collect data.

What kinds of touch feels good? Where do you like it? When do you like it? Do you like it if I massage around your anus while you use your vibrator on your clit? How does that change things? What happens if you're on your hands and knees? What happens if you're bent over the table? ⁓ Do it as data collection because as any scientist will tell you, the only experiment that's a failure is the one where you don't collect the data.

Melissa D (32:46)
Mm-hmm.

You

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (32:56)
If what I learned from this experience is I only like to receive anal massage when I'm in this position, that's a win.

That's a win. So the more that partners can bring that attitude to an experience, rather than trying to achieve the best orgasm you've ever had, the easier it's going to be for your partner to relax and receive.

Melissa D (33:20)
True. Yeah, the pressure of going into a new experience when you feel like you've got to come really hard or have this certain outcome. When you just take that pressure off completely, then collect the data. Love that. Take your little notepad.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (33:36)
Yeah.

You can talk to Siri on your phone if you want to, if Siri's in the room with you. There is a thing about that too, which is like, if you treat it as collecting the data, then you can just have fun with it. You can be like, let's try this, let's try that. What about this other thing? You don't have to take it so seriously.

Melissa D (33:53)
Yeah, there's way more curiosity. I love that. ⁓

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (33:55)
Yeah. I'm also

a big fan of don't introduce anything new on like a big special night like Valentine's Day or anniversaries or birthdays. If it works, it works great. But if it doesn't work, you've just trashed Valentine's Day. So like I know it sounds like a good idea, but maybe try things out another time first.

Melissa D (34:08)
Right.

So maybe not bring in a third on Valentine's Day.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (34:22)
I mean, if the two of you have never done it before and you don't know what kinds of buttons you're gonna find and where the jealousies are gonna pop up, yeah. But with somebody who you've, like if you have both had previous threesome experiences and you can say things like, yeah, it really helps me if blah, blah, blah, that's different. But yeah, that's what I'm saying. Don't do anything.

Melissa D (34:41)
Right, yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (34:45)
100 % new for everybody involved on a special occasion because the risk is high. There is one or two Valentine's days that I know I kind of thrashed because I made that error.

Melissa D (34:50)
Mm, I love that.

Do you want to share about this learning experience for you?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (35:01)
No, no, I don't

feel like I have permission from the people involved, but but but let's just say I wish I had known then what I know now.

Melissa D (35:08)
And

that's what makes you a great teacher now. Yeah. So what are some things, know, I mean, whatever you feel comfortable sharing and what are some things that you're exploring just in your own erotic play or expression that's interesting to you these days?

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (35:13)
so true. It's so true. ⁓

So I had an interesting experience actually last year that has continued to resonate for me. So a little backstory. I was convinced that I discovered anal masturbation when I was 14. Because it felt amazing and obviously if this was something people knew about somebody would have told me about it. So clearly I invented it. This is how my 14 year old brain

Melissa D (35:31)
Mmm.

Of

I love it.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (35:53)
worked with this. So I've been enjoying receiving anal touch and anal penetration for years, but I was never able to go past a certain size. And it wasn't a big deal. was certainly like I was having plenty of fun, but there was always this question for me of like, what's making this not work? Because I know how to do this. I I wrote this book, like, what's making this not work? So last year,

Melissa D (36:12)
Thank

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (36:18)
I was working with a physical therapist because I had done something in my foot. she was a, in addition to being a PT, was also a competitive power lifter. So she's really attuned to like how bodies move and do things. And she recognized that there was something not working right in my hip. was a, just not firing at the right time in the sequence.

Melissa D (36:40)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (36:40)
And so she

gave me a bunch of exercises to do and I do my PT exercises and you know, it's definitely helping. And then one day I just got up from the chair and something deep in my hip went kerthunk.

and my pelvic floor relaxed more than it had ever been before. And ever since then, I have not been nearly so limited on the size of toys that go inside me.

Melissa D (37:04)
That's exciting!

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (37:06)
And like, what a thing of like, I went to PT because I sprained my foot and she helped me fix my hip and now like, something that I never thought I would be able to do is super easy. Yeah, so that's been really fun to play with. What about you? I'm gonna turn that around. What's something you've been...

Melissa D (37:18)
How wonderful.

love that.

Okay, I might delete this later. know. What I'm noticing, so playing with women has always been in some sort of container. So a play party, whatever. I feel very comfortable. I'm naturally drawn to women, but it's a different desire. But I've noticed recently that there's more of a...

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (37:29)
Yeah, felt cute might delete later.

Melissa D (37:51)
and again, like I don't, I don't even have words for it, but it's just a different desire to actually date and pursue women outside of these containers. And I'm like, huh? So I have a couple of women in my life that I just adore and I'm starting to kind of play in this energy. I noticed like I'm feeling shy and like, kind of like, that's so good.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (38:13)
Whoa, that's gonna be fascinating. I'm gonna be so curious too, at some point in the future to hear from you, like how you experienced dating women as compared to dating men. Mostly because like people have lots of things to say about that, but you're coming to this like at a point in your life where you're so dialed in and so aware of these things that like...

Melissa D (38:37)
Right.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (38:38)
I think you're really going to have some interesting stuff there.

Melissa D (38:41)
Yes, I have my

journal and the people that I'm interested in are just beautiful and intelligent and very on the level. I'm really excited and curious. Yeah, and I always wonder, I'm like, why am I just now getting started? I I remember as a young girl, even before grade school, playing with girls and not thinking anything like, these are boys and these are girls and there's no...

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (38:55)
Yeah, keep us posted.

Melissa D (39:10)
concept there until later. And then I don't know if it's something that I kind of shut down. I'm not really sure, but I'm just in an inquiry right now around it.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (39:19)
Yeah. Well, and maybe, maybe there's something there. Let me find the words here. Maybe there's something there like the women who you're drawn to currently. Like, you're not gonna find women like that if you're 22 years old and you're looking among your friend group.

Melissa D (39:35)
That is true.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (39:36)
You know, like maybe you needed to find women who were like grown up enough for you, grown up enough or something. Does that make sense when I'm getting that there?

Melissa D (39:38)
you

I really like that. I'm gonna add this to my journal. Yeah, I think you're onto something. Yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (39:51)
Because there is a... I don't know what the word is, depth or solidity or something. But like, there's a shift that happens for lot of women between 40 and 45 years old. And folks are just less willing to put up with bullshit.

Melissa D (40:07)
Is that the perimenopause thing where it's just like my nose really clear? There's no nonsense. Like I am. Yeah, I am not entertaining.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (40:11)
Yeah.

Yeah,

and part of what that means is letting go of all of the passive aggressive patriarchal training that women get taught about how to navigate sex. Like somebody who's in their 40s or 50s or older is far more likely to be able to say, look.

Melissa D (40:26)
For sure, yeah.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (40:34)
I like you, I think you're fun. You wanna do a thing.

Melissa D (40:38)
Yeah, yeah, which also gets me to think about like cougars. mean, cougars are just older, more embodied, more like no nonsense, like just here for it.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (40:49)
Yeah. there's a assertive may not be the right word, but it's what I'm coming with. There's like a, not just owning it, but also taking initiative. And I feel like that's so important because, you know, in, this may be something you discover while dating. I know you know plenty about this, but that, you know, women oftentimes like are both waiting for the other one to make the first move.

Melissa D (41:10)
Yes, I- I- Yes.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (41:11)
Right? Because it's

like, it's that receptivity and I'm going to signal to you. Actually, so there's this study that came out back in 1971. went, anthropologists went to singles bars, heterosexual singles bars, to analyze courtship patterns because they realized that like the field of anthropology is always going to other countries and, you know, looking at those people of color over there. What happens if we do something here?

Melissa D (41:27)
you

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (41:37)
And so they were observing the dynamics that men have with each other, women have with each other, and then cross gender in this singles bar space. Yeah, and one of the things that they found is that almost everybody said that the men made the first move. He bought her a drink, he walked over to her, struck up a conversation. But when they analyzed the behavior,

Melissa D (41:47)
I have to read this. Okay.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (42:03)
Women made the first move by signaling receptivity. There's like the look and the look down and then the look back. You know the one, right? Or the look over the shoulder, right? But signaling the receptivity was actually the first step in the dance. But he was the first one who took physical action.

Melissa D (42:12)
huh.

there.

Mm-hmm.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (42:26)
which creates plausible deniability for both of them because now he's the one who has the initiative and she can be receptive. So the reason why I say that is I think the same thing happens a lot of the time in women's relationships where like you're both signaling receptivity and waiting for the other one to make the move. Come on, buy me a drink. Come on over here, you know. Bring me in. So...

Melissa D (42:33)
Ha ha.

Bring me in.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (42:51)
Let us know how that goes too.

Melissa D (42:52)
I will. Maybe we'll do a follow-up call and I'll give you the deets.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (42:55)
Yeah.

It's a fascinating study. Yeah.

Melissa D (42:58)
Yeah, I love it. And

I'm grateful that I'm exploring this now, but I'm also like, man, now this late in life, I mean, I'm still super, I feel young and I feel like I have plenty of time, but it's just a funny thing that I'm noticing now.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (43:13)
I feel like that happens a lot though. I mean, I noticed for me, my friends, my clients, there's like this point in your life a lot of the time where you're just like, why am I putting up with this bullshit still? Like why am I letting this hold me back from getting what I want?

Melissa D (43:26)
Okay.

Yeah, yeah, I'd love that. So on that note, Charlie, gosh, thank you so much for being here.

We're gonna have to do this again. We'll have a part two. Because there's a lot more things that I wanted to go into. But yeah, just really appreciate you showing up and sharing your stories and your gifts. Tell us about where we find you if someone is inspired by what you shared and is curious about your work.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (43:39)
Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, the best place to find me is my website, makesexeasy.com. I do have social media accounts, but I'm not using them anymore because I was finding that not just the negativity of the news, but the frequency of stimulation was fracturing my ability to be present. So, yeah. So don't bother looking for me on social media, come to my website.

Melissa D (44:13)
Yes, you're free.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (44:19)
And if you would like to book a Get Acquainted call with me, the contact form goes right into my inbox. I would love to hear from you.

Melissa D (44:27)
wonderful. All right, Charlie. I hope to see you in person soon.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (44:31)
I would like that. I would like that. yeah. Where are you living now, actually? Where are you? Okay, that's what I thought. I wasn't sure if I was misremembering that. All right. I've been wanting to come down there, so...

Melissa D (44:32)
All right.

question.

Well, I'm in Austin.

Maybe we need to like make a reason, an excuse to bring you and then just tie in some of the things. ⁓ I don't think so.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (44:48)
That's her. I'm a fan. And do know Ashley Manta?

Her website was Canna Sexual. She did a lot of stuff around cannabis and sexual health. And she is currently in Austin, but she's planning on moving to Canada where her boyfriend lives. But in the meantime, yeah, look up AshleyManta.com. She's amazing. She would be great to have on there. Yeah.

Melissa D (45:05)
wonderful. Well look her up.

Okay,

okay, we'll do again. Yeah, thank you so much, Charlie.

Charlie Glickman (he/him) (45:15)
Thank you.

Yeah, and thanks Riz for helping make this happen. See you two later. Bye bye.

Melissa D (45:18)
Bye.