Shadow Work, Sexuality & the Parts We Hide with Mos Jef

Melissa sits down with Mos Jef, a master level Shadow EFT practitioner and founder of Sanctum Institute of Life Harmonization, for a raw, real conversation about the parts of ourselves we push away and what happens when we finally let them be seen.

Jeff shares how he developed his own methodology after years of exploration (and a dark night of the soul that started at Burning Man), why 95% of our problems come down to feelings we don't want to feel, and how shadow work transforms not just our inner world but our relationships and sexuality too.

In This Episode

• What Shadow EFT actually is and how it differs from traditional tapping
• Why the body holds the key to healing, even for experiences we can't consciously remember
• The "basement pushups" metaphor: what happens when you try to kill off parts of yourself
• How shadow work shows up in relationships and erotic life
• Jeff's origin story: from suicidal depression to developing a healing methodology
• The mechanics of tapping: meridians, nervous system regulation, and why it works so fast
• Why resistance in your process is actually the best sign you're on the right track
• Safety, shame, and what it means to be truly open with a partner
• Developing shadow integration as a skill you can use on yourself

About the Guest

Mos Jef is a master level Shadow EFT practitioner and the founder of Sanctum Institute of Life Harmonization. He developed his own methodology blending EFT, shadow integration, and depth psychology after years of personal healing and professional practice. He trains practitioners and leads retreats and workshops focused on deep somatic integration and self-directed healing.

Connect

Mos Jef

• Mosjef.co
• @mos__jef

Melissa D. / BodyJoy

• bodyjoy.org
• @bodyjoyintimacyschool

If this episode hit home, share it with someone who needs to hear it. And if you're ready to go deeper, check out Jeff's upcoming self-integration workshop. 

Transcript

Melissa D (00:00)
Welcome to the Body Joy After Office Hours podcast where I sit down and chat it up with Most Jeff. I just really love this man so much. He's a master level shadow EFT practitioner and the founder of Sanctum Institute of Life Harmonization. Tonight we get into ways to access the deeper parts of ourselves, aka the shadow aspects.

in order to interrupt and even integrate the parts of us that may be sabotaging the show in real life, relationships, and even parts of our sexuality.

Melissa D (00:33)
I really hope you enjoy this conversation.

Melissa D (00:35)
Mos Jef. Thank you so much for being here.

Mos Jef (00:38)
Thanks for having me.

Melissa D (00:39)
So we know each other from Nevada County. And we actually didn't really I didn't see and feel like the magic of your work until I was like on my way out and on my way to Texas. And and then I but I also remember taking your training in Mexico and you are a master level shadow EFT practitioner. So would you mind sharing?

⁓ what is that exactly? Jedi?

Mos Jef (01:02)
Yeah, no problem.

Yeah, so I don't know. mean, a lot of people have heard of EFT at this point, the emotional technique, and there's a lot of different flavors of it. Like you got positive EFT or rapid EFT or matrix re-imprinting or anyways. And so like I said, there's a lot of different flavors of it. And...

The methodology that I have developed as a result of just a lot of exploration and a lot of experimentation and a lot of self study and so forth is

I mean, I was trained as an EFT practitioner and went from like advanced level to master level and continued learning and exploring with other therapists, other coaches and so forth and kept on paying attention to what was really working for me and what I could consistently and like reliably replicate in my own experience and with the people that I was working with. And then eventually there came this kind of like threshold where

The majority of people that I was working with, the majority of my clients were EFT practitioners.

And they kept on saying something very consistently to me saying like this, Hey, what you are doing is different. Like this is no longer traditional EFT. This isn't what we understand. You're doing something different. How are you doing that? What are you doing? And like I said, there was just enough of an ask for it that eventually I just kind of reverse engineered the process and was like, okay, what am I doing? And looked like mapped it all out and realized like, I'm like, have I created here? And then just started hosting like practitioner enhancement.

programs and then that eventually just coalesced into an entire retreat situation and then a curriculum.

Melissa D (02:35)
Yeah, it's pretty incredible. I my early experiences with EFT were very surfacey. I sat with somebody and got led through what I would say is a pretty basic process. And I just remember it like feeling good, you know, to tap on my body and follow the sequence. But it wasn't there was something different about that. I remember the way that you did it. And then when I started seeing the way that you would kind of bring in the shadow aspects and it was a lot.

It was really similar to some of the stuff that I did with hypnotherapy. There was just some some similarity. So as I was in session with you or as I was even at the training, I was like, ⁓ this is so freaking cool. So do you want to share just somatically and just what's the mechanics in your experience of EFT? And why do you think it just kicks so much ass?

Mos Jef (03:24)
Thank

Okay, well, like the whole shadow part of the shadowy of T is like I started I mean, like it's informed by informed by shadow integration and depth psychology, but there's like, there's a deep somatic element there because, and this is one of the reasons why I think that it lands or why I experienced it landing in the way that it does, because it's through the communication of sensation, like through the medium of sensation, and tracking, like subtle sensation in the body, moving into relationship with it. And it's like emotions are we experienced emotions in

as

sensation in the body, but it's like through that lens or through that access point, as I understand it, that we get into and connect with the places in our mind and in our body that existed before we had language or cognition. And so it goes as deep as is possible. And like one of my axioms is that basically like 95 % of the problems that humans face as a collective just has to do with feelings that they don't want to feel. And

this approach and framework and technology actually makes the most excruciating experiences that we can feel manageable and safe and creates a sense of like agency but also capacity in ourselves to actually be with the things that we typically react away from or shy away from and in doing so then that's kind of like

It invites a robustness in the system and in the psyche. It's like, no, I can't handle this. And the things that I used to be afraid of, I am no longer.

afraid of, I'm not shying away from this, I can actually handle it and in being able to allow myself to experience in entirety the thing that was painful, it actually kind of ceases to be painful and that's where the healing aspect, it's like these places of unprocessed pain that really do like govern the way that we function in the world and our identity and like all the protective patterns that we've created to get away from it.

If we just expose ourselves to it intentionally and dissolve it and release the resistance that we have in the mind and in the body around it, then it ceases to actually be a painful thing and then we become free. A different person shows up.

Melissa D (05:23)
Mm-hmm. How do you know or how does someone know that they're actually finding a shadow piece? Because there's a lot of talk right now about shadow work and I'm noticing it's not all the same. And so I like to like lean in. Okay, how do you know and how are people dealing with the shadow? And yeah.

Mos Jef (05:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so...

Melissa D (05:44)
Maybe if

you want to share about, I mean, I'll share with one of my shadows that I found at the retreat and you can share about maybe one of yours. But what does that early explanation look like for someone that maybe notices that, hey, ⁓ I've got some emotions or I've got some patterns showing up in my life. I'm looking for something that actually helps me heal through it instead of taking, say, 20, 30 years of talk therapy. Yeah. What does that look like?

Mos Jef (06:09)
I mean, some of the key characteristics that I could say is, okay, you got some shady bits rocking your process right now. It's like if you are consistently coming up against the same types of patterns or blocks or struggles in your life, and it's like it doesn't matter what you do, you've tried everything, but you still are coming up against this piece that's just messing you up, basically, then that's an indication.

that you most likely have some unconscious like things existing underneath your functional awareness that are consistently bringing you back into a continuation of this process. So that shows up in like relationships that shows up in work that shows up in I mean there's really nothing off the table here but that's one of the key places that I would say like hey like this is it seems that you might have some shadow work available here which is just like hey you've tried everything else and you are still like you cannot stop this

maladaptive thing that you're doing or this like weird relationship that you keep getting into or this like protective like reactive thing that keeps on happening in you no matter how much you talk about it no matter how much therapy no matter how many retreats that you go to no matter how much time you spend crying on a yoga mat like whatever you like you tried everything but this this this still seems to be a pattern that's an indication that there's just something deeper and deeper and deeper that just hasn't gotten this little psychological itch scratched

Melissa D (07:29)
Mm-hmm. And how do you feel when you hear people say, you just called that in?

Hahaha!

You just called that in.

Mos Jef (07:35)
I don't want to jump too furious, but yeah, like, ugh. There's the injustice involved with it. Like, you just called that in. I get protective. I get like, ugh, that's like, mm-mm. Like, no, that's a mm-mm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like that. And, and like, because, but it also like that really, I mean, that's, that's kind of context dependent as well, you know, like, that's a conversation that's happening in relationship, is what I immediately like poked into, I was like, Oh, get out, your partner saying that like, f**k out. You know, as opposed to like, there is all like, in a different context,

Melissa D (08:11)
Ha

Mos Jef (08:15)
Like for instance, you like you got someone spiraling in victim mindset and it's like what's happening to them, right and

And actually the way to kind of shift out of that experience is to actually be able to honestly self assess like, well, are there ways in which I am actually like perpetuating this and like creating this and that's like, and that's a really fine line to walk as far as, know, like, like not, mean, definitely running the risk of or accounting for like, no, we're not talking about victim shaming here, you know, but like, but context dependent, it's like, well, hey, like, I mean,

Melissa D (08:47)
Right.

Mos Jef (08:51)
potentially one of the reasons that I would stay that I have stayed stuck in patterns for longer than I needed to or like in shitty situations is because I was outsourcing responsibility by blaming other people as opposed to just being like, hey, like, here's what I'm doing and in taking responsibility for like how I am actually creating continuing the situation, I can actually empower myself to do something about it. Like that's one of the other ways of looking through that lens. But when people are saying like, yeah, you're just calling this in. It's like, well, like, I mean,

I mean, that can hold. That can be used in a manipulative fashion. That can be used to resolve, to avoid responsibility or not take accountability or ownership. So yeah, that's something to track. ⁓

Melissa D (09:25)
Mm-hmm.

or secondary gain.

Mos Jef (09:37)
Sure, yeah, sure, yeah, like yeah, some sort of as well. And there's also definitely something about like, the...

the unspoken thoughts and that have been repeated so often that they turn into unconscious beliefs and so forth. Like those 100 % do register in our energy and they register in our nervous system and our heart field variability and are communicated in the lexicon and the psycholinguistics that we use and like body language and eye contact. All of that is being broadcasted and is being picked up and like resonating with, you know, the people who we attract ourselves, attract ourselves to or who are attracted to us. So

in some sense, like, yeah, there is actually like a degree of how I do not realize the ways in which I am communicating is actually inviting in things in my experience as well. so clearing that up and coming from a more congruent or internally integrated or empowered space, like, yeah, that is actually going to show up and have a ripple effect in what I experienced and the results that I have in the world around me.

Melissa D (10:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I had a pretty powerful experience at your retreat and then there was like another session that I did with one of your students. Just around people that I would, I wouldn't say call in, but more about like allow and just entertain, let's say, and ⁓ really getting to the core of the parts of me that were kind of making space for things that were just unhealthy. And it was,

Mos Jef (10:51)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa D (11:01)
It was a pattern that goes way back. it's big. Yeah.

Mos Jef (11:05)
Yeah, as they do. that's and that's kind of the nuts and bolts around why, piggybacking around to like you, your question around like, why does this go so deep? And how does this go so deep? And why does this do the things that it does? It's because we're learning how to gain access to and move into like relationship and communication with pieces of ourselves that go back a really long way. they got a

like in some cases like pre-verbal and so forth and being able to communicate with and like validate those existing experiences because ultimately that's like what we're like all of our protective mechanisms are built up to take care of the most vulnerable pieces of us and this is way of being able to like this process or like that this framework and methodology is a way of being able to like not only get in contact with them but actually take care of them as well in the way that they needed and then in a way that is still like being manifested or

called for or asked for like in the present moment. That's kind of cool. It's like the present moment like what I'm experiencing right now that is always going to be the access point into the deepest parts or the youngest pieces of myself and you know like story is helpful sometimes but ultimately like it's not.

Always necessary like I get people asking like do I have to remember like what happened to me in order to be able to heal completely and my answer to that is like no like actually you don't you got it like if there's something that you can notice active right here now that you can feel in your body then we have everything that we need to Like effective

Melissa D (12:27)
Mm-hmm.

I'm glad that you said take care of because there seems to be this idea or I notice it in clients where they have a quote unquote negative emotion or thought or something kind of pop up and they just want to kind of bury it or override it or say no I've got to like kill that part of me or you know get rid of it somehow and so this the sweet integration

⁓ Or showing that it's actually a really valuable important part of ourselves. I think I remember You saying and it stuck with me of like these shadow aspects if you try to like push them into the shadow They're just gonna go in the basement do push-ups and come back And it's so true

Mos Jef (13:07)
Yeah, 100%. For real though,

for real though. Honestly, I feel like, I I heard that metaphor. I don't even remember where I heard it, like so many years ago, like how did it been like 10 years ago? And it just like, yeah, that's real. Like that is like definitely like, because it's like...

Melissa D (13:16)
You

Mos Jef (13:24)
I there's a couple of different lenses that you can look at it. Like energy can never be, cannot be created nor destroyed, right? Like there's just like, this is a part of you. It's not going anywhere. Like you can't like, when people are like, I have to destroy, you know, like the identity or this part of me. It's like, no, you don't, that's a part of you. You can transmute it. You can nurture it into a healthy version of itself, which is actually what is necessary. But yeah, if you don't express it, if you just push it away, you hide it or whatnot, it's not gonna go anywhere. It's gonna go down in the basement. It's gonna lift weights until it's strong enough to get your attention and mess everything up.

and then at that point it's moving with like the uncontrollable like the irresistible force of impulse because it's like that's when like that's when I that's when I get triggered and all of sudden I turn into another person and I'm like I'm like somebody's head off

Melissa D (14:09)
Yeah, like in

I think of my inner ice queen comes out and until I really met her man, she was Sharp and so now now she's off in her Polly Pocket world, you know, I created this manageable space for her when before she was just like For those of you listening. I don't know if you understand it. But like, you know these these parts of ourselves sometimes it's nice to like

Mos Jef (14:18)
Yeah.

Melissa D (14:32)
really like see them and visualize their costume or what they're wearing and really like go for it so that I don't know for me I'm very visual so like you know seeing my ice queen crown and see the ways that she would come in and just like level the field and like really be harsh to people because I needed that at what time but now as an adult and this is the deeper work that I got to do is that now my more integrated like calm person can kind of come forward the ice queen could be like hey I'm

I'm kind seeing something over there, but she can do something else instead of like burning the whole house down or. Yeah.

Mos Jef (15:07)
Right?

What a paradox. The ice queen burns everything down.

Melissa D (15:11)
I know. She's got like a, she's got a machete of fire for some reason. I don't know. I don't ask these questions.

Mos Jef (15:17)
Yeah, and it's like, in coming into awareness of the aspect and like, I remember like that really, once upon a time, like I was in session with somebody and I was working with like, I don't know, some protective piece of me and like, and it was actually I was receiving from, I was receiving from one of our, one of the students, one of the practitioners in the sanctum in the training. And I was, and I was getting work and yeah, and I was expressing from like a different.

like a different place in my mind or from what I and.

the student caught it and actually gave me a dose of my own medicine, which is amazing. And I was just like, who is that? And what is he wearing right now? And I like, like started laughing and crying and like got my attention brought to a piece of me that was orchestrating the show that I didn't even realize was there. And like, that's the psychological breakthrough and one of the most powerful pieces of the whole process. It's like in, cause I imagined that when you first came into contact with, you your protector, like the ice queen, like that.

Melissa D (15:56)
What?

Mos Jef (16:15)
that was a piece that you might not have been, most likely were not completely aware of was there and running the show and then in coming into awareness of like, holy smokes, like that is a whole ass thing. That is a whole developed aspect of my mind that literally that is the lens through which I see the world. And now I realize that it's a lens and it's over there and I'm looking at it and my entire world is shifting as a result of it. And it's like, it's just.

Melissa D (16:21)
No.

Mos Jef (16:42)
It's one of the most exhilarating and simultaneously excruciating experiences in the world, but once you have that experience and you realize, my goodness, I have many pieces of my mind that function in the exact same way, then it's just like, I don't know, it's kind of like Pokemon. It's just like, gotta get them all, you know?

Melissa D (16:59)
Well, once I was aware of it, then it made it it it. I was able to work with it versus like, I'm just being a bitch or I'm feeling very frozen like I literally would feel frozen. I feel country. I would feel really short. Like, what is that? But now it's like it's just it feels and operates way different. And it took me a couple of times of like almost like getting to know her and just like really sitting with her.

Mos Jef (17:12)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I had a similar experience where I was just like, my god, like, I'm not a dick. I'm just having a survival response right now. Like, my god, like, I'm not, like, I'm not an asshole. Like, I literally have a protective piece up that's saying, like, everybody get away from me because I need to take care of a terrified little kid right now.

Melissa D (17:41)
Which brings me to a point, don't you think it's beautiful to have friendships, relationships, maybe you can talk about some dynamics with you and Fabi, your wife, of when we know the people that we love have these parts and we can see and feel when they start to get spiky or come out, we can actually care for them on the other side and love them. I love that about community.

Mos Jef (18:02)
For sure, yeah, and that's definitely like, it's one of the aspects or points that gets reflected really continuously to me from everybody who engages in this type of work, which is like in developing more effective and healthy relationships with the internal pieces of me, then I turn around and like all of my other.

Melissa D (18:03)
Hmm.

Mos Jef (18:23)
relationships are enhanced as a result because I'm basically just interacting with a whole bunch of parts of another person as well. So as I've become more aware of and more like accepting of my prickly pieces, then when I turn around, like, you know, someone else is getting activated. Like I have like the relationship that I have with my own internal aspects sets like serves as the template through which I interact with everybody else. So when my partner is getting prickly, like instead of getting reactive around it, now I

now I have curiosity and like compassion. It's like, ⁓ I get it. I get it. This is like, I'm not going to take this personally. And I have way more space for this because I've integrated my relationship with this in myself. And it really does smooth things out like amazingly, like in learning how to look deeper into ourselves and becoming more accepting and more caring and more supportive of ourselves in that way than we do. Like it really does just shift the way that we interact with everybody else in our life, especially the people closest to us.

Melissa D (19:20)
Could you imagine if this was just something that everyone did in school and they started developing this? Could you imagine like how amazing?

Mos Jef (19:30)
I do.

I do, I do. I'm trying to imagine it. I'm trying to imagine it more. like, I was just thinking about this before we got on the call. like, no, like this isn't really like, this isn't incredibly normal right now. And I'm doing the best that I can to make it more normal.

are you right it's just like yeah I can actually imagine I could imagine what it would have been like for me to have been in middle school or high school or whatever and people started teaching me these frameworks and techniques just like mother of god that could have saved me so much bullshit like

Melissa D (20:00)
So much.

Mos Jef (20:02)
Damn dude like learn how to like, you know learn how to develop a deep like foundational acceptance of self Which grounds myself and makes the entire world easier to navigate like no matter what happens I've got me like yeah, I would have loved to have had that in middle school for sure so Like yeah, imagining what that could look like to get more like readily dispersed throughout our collective and whatever medium It can like yeah, absolutely, which is like kind of why we do what we do, you know

Melissa D (20:18)
Two.

So amazing. Making it even available in other communities that may not have the resources to do it, like just having this more available. Yeah, would be pretty incredible. So what are your thoughts on, you know, someone that starts this and thinks it's, you know, okay, I'm going to do a couple sessions. It feels like you're kind of, I imagine, kind of digging up the carpet. And this is a, this is a lifelong thing. Don't you think?

Mos Jef (20:38)
Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, it depends. It's context dependent again. It depends on the person. It depends on like what they got going on, what they're coming in for. And, but, and here's something that I thought about actually earlier on in the call when you're like, you know, like there's, I have this surface level experience with like EFT and, I, and that kind of made me think.

You know, like I get that. Like I've heard that from people like, yeah, it's that kind of annoying like modality that, you know, it's like, eh, like 11, it doesn't really. And there's a part of me that's exactly. And there's a part of me that's like, oh God, dude, that's making so much more work for, you know, those of us who actually have an understanding of how deep it can go in a sense, because it's like, if you are not 100 % just like, yo, I need to learn and like explore this as much as I possibly can.

Melissa D (21:22)
It's not landing. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mos Jef (21:41)
then that's an indication that the person just hasn't experienced what is actually available and on the table impossible with this. bringing it back around to your most recent question now, it's on one level, yeah, it does and can be a lifelong process if you want it to. You can take it as far as you want.

I have, I definitely have some people who will come through and they're like, Hey, I've been working, like I've been talking to a therapist, a therapist for this thing or about this thing for years. And like in a session or two, we knock it out and they're like, great, I'm good. And they go off and you know, do the rest of their thing. And then other people are, have the experience of like, I know that I have dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of pieces of my mind that are waiting to get cleaned up and taken care of in the exact same way. And I'm not going to stop until I get them all.

Melissa D (22:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mos Jef (22:25)
And I'm also biased in the sense of, yeah, Dennis is probably going to tell people that they should keep on brushing their teeth. I'm like, yeah, no, it's good for you. Yes, definitely. Keep doing your inner work to the extent that feels good for you, because as long as I'm a human, then I'm going to have things to attend to, either in my own world or in my support of the people that I love and so forth. There's always something to do and something to move towards. And that's not a bad thing.

that gives us drive and purpose and a reason to get out of bed and like, you know, something like the satisfaction of moving towards something that is important to us.

Melissa D (22:58)
What about your opinion on or just your experience of people doing their own shadow work on themselves?

Mos Jef (23:06)
from the statement of taking this as far as you want to go, because you can get focused work and you can do it, and it's really good and really helpful because that collapses time in a sense. You will save yourself a lot of time and energy by working with someone who has eyes on your process and be able to see the things that you can't see because the mind does and will hide things, even when we're trying to share it with somebody else.

Melissa D (23:27)
Yeah, so pre-fish.

Mos Jef (23:28)
So there's that, but developing this into an internal skill set that you can take with you and bust out anytime that you need, that is also the other, I would say, most valuable aspect of this, to be able to have like.

reliable skill set that you know that you can turn to and have a framework of being able to utilize it with that like straight up helps you navigate every and any difficult experience and like in the human spectrum that's solid gold like that's irreplaceable that's priceless that's like okay now I'm experiencing upset I'm experiencing depression I'm experiencing anxiety like I can feel myself starting to move into a panic attack and I know what to do to

create a sense of internal safety, nervous system safety, really rapidly and really effectively in myself. Like that's, yeah, like that's in some cases the difference between, you know, like life and death. Like that's, yeah, that's insane. To be able to do that and to be able to have like the sense of safety and security or fortitude and agency in myself to know that I can do that,

Melissa D (24:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mos Jef (24:36)
a game changer, the ability as a result of having that practice to the point that I can turn around and immediately help somebody else, if and when, also like equally as priceless.

Yeah, and like in a couple of weeks, in a couple of weeks I'm running a workshop that is specifically around this. like, yes, there's EFT and yes, there's shadow integration, but here's how to be able to turn it into something that you can use on yourself anytime that you need to. And that is like, that is a high level internal skillset that is so valuable for as many people as possible to understand how to do because, because.

Melissa D (25:08)
Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful.

I catch myself using some of the tapping sequences. Do you want to share just from a a soma perspective? Like what does the actual tapping do? What are we actually tapping on? Yeah.

Mos Jef (25:23)
Yup, yup yup yup

for sure. Yeah, okay, so you have to do the tapping, right? It's like you're tapping on acupressure points. And this is where like the Chinese medicine starts to come into the forehand for people who aren't familiar with...

Meridians I guess because this is a meridian based tapping approach methodology imagine that you got a grid of subtle energy electromagnetic energy going up and down your body because you do and Acupressure points acupuncture points are just dots on those lines. Those lines are called meridians. You have 12 major meridians that Make up or that are contained within your body. And so when you are tapping on yourself you're tapping on Acupressure points, which is sending pulses of electromagnetic energy into your meridian

system like flicking a lighter flint, kinetic energy, same type of simulation. And so what is happening as you tap on these points is a bunch of things are happening in the body.

For our intents and purposes with shadow EFT, most importantly is the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems that are being activated, like kind of at the same time. So there's a degree of activation, just like I said, that's the sympathetic response. like you're telling your about your commanding or influencing.

the body to wake up and become alert and get ready to roll. Right? It's like low level, low level activation, like not, not too, not too high. Otherwise then we fizz out, but there's a degree of like wake up, be present, get ready to roll. And it's incredibly helpful when we're working with like numbed out or repressed emotional signatures. This is kind of how we excavated and bring things up to the surface.

And more importantly, more predominantly, I would say is the parasympathetic activation that's happening while you're tapping on yourself. Because...

As we are tapping on ourselves, we are also telling ourselves that everything is okay, and that I'm completely safe, and that I can relax, and I'm completely safe in my body, that I'm so safe that I could actually sit down and take a poop if I wanted to. That's the rest and digest. Yeah, yeah, straight up. It's wild, but that's legitimately, it's like this is everything's okay, and I'm completely safe in my body. So.

Melissa D (27:12)
Whoa.

Mos Jef (27:23)
If you give your attention to something that carries with it a distressing emotional signature, and like there's nothing off the table here that can be anger, that can be worry, that can be regret, guilt, shame, physical pain, like nothing off the table here, then two things will happen. If you continue to tap and remember to breathe, you will experience the entirety of the emotion, which is a good thing. That's how bodies process and release and create capacity in our system. So you'll feel the thing.

And at the same time, will be diminishing the intensity of the thing because you're communicating safety to the body. And so you'll be discharging from the nervous system, stored energy from the nervous system, while at the same time, fortifying the body to basically internally referencing itself and saying like, hey, I'm strong enough to actually be able to handle this. And this is becoming less and less and less painful to the point where I could be thinking about something that was really messing me up. And like I was really upset or really scared or whatever. And I tap on it and let myself breathe and process for a little bit. And then I can tune.

Melissa D (28:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mos Jef (28:19)
back

into that thing and find myself completely clear, completely clean, like no contraction, no hint of a negative emotional response. And that's basically how we utilize this to help people very effectively and thoroughly process and alleviate complex PTSD in a very short amount of time.

Like that's an aspect and that's kind of just the beginning of it because that's before you get into intentionally cultivating and influencing nurturing thought forms of compassion and empathy and love and forgiveness and so forth into into these places of stored pain which that's what nurtures are some like these old pain points into the healthiest versions of themselves and that's where we begin to integrate like really effectively. That's a long answer.

Melissa D (29:03)
I love it.

Yeah, so the tapping alone is something that helps the nervous system kind of deescalate, if you will, the tapping and the deep breath, the sigh of relief. And then the next piece, you leading them through a very succinct process. Again, it's very unique, unique to any other EFT thing that I've done, which is pretty magical. Do you want to tell me a little bit about just like the early days of you?

Mos Jef (29:12)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Melissa D (29:29)
you know, taking the training and living in Nevada County and.

Mos Jef (29:33)
man, I'd like, I'd taken, I'd been in years of training before I made it to Nevada County, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually got, I mean, the first time that I ever was exposed to it was actually at a workshop at Burning Man. Yeah.

Melissa D (29:38)
Okay. Yeah.

perfect. Yeah, take us back

who that was that must have been your teacher.

Mos Jef (29:49)
Yep, yep, was Sonia. Yeah, Sonia Sophia, the founder of the Sophia School of Living Arts. ⁓ I was, yeah, was in the dark night of the soul slash full on crisis of the typical wounded healer journey of just like, okay, things are bad enough now that I'm ready and willing and desperate enough to try anything to get myself out of the place that I was in because it was just like, it was so bad. I was fucked up.

Melissa D (29:51)
Sonia.

Amazing.

Mos Jef (30:17)
and it tried.

everything to get myself out of the place that I was in because I was just like non-functioning it was like beyond depressed like couldn't get out of bed couldn't keep it off of my face couldn't hold down a job like the entire world wanted to hate me like it was bad and I literally like was having was having self-harming ideation like planning things to intentionally leave like you know this plane of existence like it was rough and everything that I tried I mean nothing that I tried was really helping me at all to move the needle at all like I was like talk therapy hypnotherapy

Melissa D (30:28)
Wow.

Mos Jef (30:49)
DMT ceremony, meditation retreat, I'd even learned EFT at that point, or I knew EFT but I didn't really know how. I was like, okay, I love and accept myself, nothing's working, nothing works. And it's, and like, yeah, it was bad. And anyways, but I ended up at, but somehow I still managed to make it to Burning Man.

Melissa D (31:02)
Yeah.

course yeah.

Mos Jef (31:13)
Well,

one of my friends, like I had a really good friend who was like, got your ticket. I got your, I got your ticket. I got your camp dues. It's like, make it out here. You need to get out of the space that you're in. I'm like, okay, fine. Whatever. I'll try it. And then I made it out there and like, great. I'm suicidal, suicidally depressed at Burning Man. This is horrible. But I found the same workshop that I had learned or that I had found a long time ago, which was like the, which was Sonia, my mentor. And the first time that I had found this workshop out there, like it was before.

I mean, it was at the very, very beginning before things had gotten really bad. And I went, I took part in the process, but it didn't really like make sense. I didn't really feel anything. I was just like, yeah, it just happened to myself. I'm like, I love and accept myself, but nothing's happening. Why are all these people crying around me? But I had like a physical, like visceral experience where, yeah, like basically after that initial experience, I went back and, or I went back to an eye doctor because I just gotten fit for contact lens.

And she looked at my eyes and was like, what did you do? What's going on? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I was just out in the desert and my eyes might be swollen. I lost my goggles. And she's like, yeah, I see that, but that doesn't explain what else I'm seeing. And I had astigmatism and one eye was bad and the other eye was worse. And after I got back from learning EFT for a couple of days, both of my eyes were exactly the same and better.

scientifically proved that I corrected my vision I needed to change my prescription and she's like what did you do and I was like no what else can I do and that's before I accessed this on an emotional level right right that was before the dark night of soul after the dark I mean in the middle of the dark night of the soul while I was just like super messed up I found the same workshop and I was like oh yeah like the lady with like the tapping maybe I tried everything else like I guess and this time I just bawled and cried and released and

Melissa D (32:37)
Wow.

Mos Jef (33:00)
snotted all over the place for like two hours and was just like, because I was acutely activated at that point. I was like, my pain body was super up. So I immediately felt what it felt like to begin to discharge from from a place of of ouch.

And yeah, and at the end of it, was still like, I was still messed up. Like that was just like, I literally just like, you know, like pop the cork and started to abscess the wound a little bit. I mean, in my mind, I was, I thought if, if, because there was dozens and dozens, like hundreds of people in this workshop and I was like 80 yards away from the stage. I was all the way in the back.

And my thought was like, yo, if you can do that to me without knowing anything about me, then I wonder what could happen if I got in contact with you and shared my process with you. And so I reached out and was like, I don't even know if this is a thing, but do you do one-on-one sessions? I was a good little burner. I got on her mailing list and whatnot. And I saw that she just happened to be coming through the area of California that I was at after Burning Man. And so I sent her a message and was like, hey, do you do this? Can I do, do you do one-on-one sessions? I'll pay you. And she got back to me immediately.

and was like, yeah, meet me here. And so I met up with Sonia and had my first one-on-one experience of having an EFT session and in like 90 minutes just processed like 18 years of psychotherapy. was just...

completely completely floored by it and at the end of it I was just like wiping tears and snot off of my face just like I didn't even know you had it like that like oh and she's like I think that you might be really good at this I'm gonna hold the space open for you in my training intensive if you can make it and yeah I was like yeah if I feel this different after this long then I guess I will study for weeks and yeah and at the end of that came out of that like

Melissa D (34:33)
Awesome.

Mos Jef (34:43)
completely different critter and had a lot of work to do, still wasn't done, but like, yeah, that really did open up my awareness into like, damn, okay, this is a thing. And at the end it, I was like, you mean to tell me that I have a job at the end of this now? Like, I feel this good and this safe and this clear and this clean, and this gets to be my baseline of how I function in the world, but I can also share this with somebody else if I want to, like, okay, absolutely. And like, Sonya's like, yeah, you'll get, you'll have a job. I'm like, I'm never gonna do what you do. Like, I'm not gonna have a practice. I'm not gonna like teach retreats.

Melissa D (34:59)
Yeah.

Mos Jef (35:10)
stand on stage of like hundreds of people and like teach this and whatnot and you know even though all that has happened at this point but I literally was like I just want to feel better and I know and I found the thing that actually works and I'm not gonna stop until nothing hurts anymore and yeah and I was 13 years ago and things have not stopped getting better for me and like basically anybody who really learns this and understands this and synthesizes it and incorporates it into their existing XYZ like

Yeah, when it comes down to it, it works.

Melissa D (35:40)
That's Yeah, is there ever anyone that

you work with that there's a little bit of a like it's a little difficult?

Mos Jef (35:50)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, for sure. Like there's like, there's not necessarily a cookie cutter approach and there's so many different representations of...

There's eight billion different representations of a human mind right now and that's not accounting for all of their sub-personalities. yeah, mean basically everybody that I work with, everybody that I ever worked with is a new person. And regardless of wherever they happen to be in their process, they are a new person. it's just like because we're constantly and rapidly evolving and shifting our identity every time that we engage in this process. So...

So yeah, and so I've definitely, I've moved myself or I've come into like, mean, there's a really, it's a difference between, there's a milestone that I reached at one point where I was like, did I just have a difficult session or did I have a learning session? Right, where,

Because once upon a time, probably, I don't know, mean, I guess this was probably around like five years into...

working as a practitioner, where I made a shift where I was like, wow, this person is like, they're like, this is difficult. And there's like a very consistent degree of resistance that's coming up here. And eventually I came into awareness of like, I'm treating the resistance like it's a problem. And there's a part of me that's making it about me and I'm annoyed about it. Right. And then once I made the shift of realizing like, if I'm coming up against resistance, that's an indication that that is like exactly where we want

Melissa D (37:06)
Right.

Mos Jef (37:15)
to

be and this is right on the threshold of the most important piece and this is actually a really good thing then yeah and then like that that internal refrain basically like shift me from a practitioner being like god like

up against something to like okay now I'm actually excited and like very very like present and here with this moment so now it's just like like no like I don't really like have difficult difficult you know people anymore I have fascinating case studies like that's what I have right

Melissa D (37:43)
Yeah, I imagine like just sitting on

the edge of your seat like with your little note taker.

Mos Jef (37:47)
straight up.

I have not seen this before. Like what? Like yes, tell me more. So like yeah, mean, and that's like, truly like that's what makes that's what makes us good. That's how we grow. And it's how we learn. It's how we get better. And it's how we develop is just like.

when like making that internal internal shift for myself and like now I just like you know I I harp this to people and like hey if it's difficult for you to think about that's a good sign that means you're learning that's an important and necessary part of the process that means you are straight up you are carving out new neural pathways right now it is supposed to be difficult the first time that's a good sign it means that you're that means that you're making your brain do something that it's never done before and the next time you do it it's gonna get easier so like lean into that it's not something to immediately

down in the face of this is actually like no this is a good sign like you got to put in your reps

Melissa D (38:38)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah. And I appreciated that you brought up, you know, just a level level of some sort of difficulty is, you know, pointing to exactly where you might want to go.

Mos Jef (38:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. mean, there's, it's, and with, bringing it back around to, like, developing this as an internal skill set that you can use with you, I mean, ultimately, what happens is people start to train themselves and being able to recognize, like, I've got internal resistance here. And, that's, now I know that this is exactly where I need to lean in, where before I might have unconsciously, like, procrastinated or put it off, but eventually, like, we...

Melissa D (38:49)
Yeah.

Mos Jef (39:12)
train and program ourselves into automatically leaning into the places where we used to shy away. And that's, and I think that that's one of the most fascinating and encouraging side effects of engaging in shadow work is when you find yourself doing the thing that you used to hold yourself back from doing, but you didn't make the decision to do it. It's like you were like, whoa, I am now.

Melissa D (39:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mos Jef (39:37)
reflexively, automatically moving towards the thing that I was afraid of as opposed to allowing it to govern my life.

Melissa D (39:45)
Mm-hmm. That's beautiful. How does it, what do you have any magic you'd like to share about people incorporating this in the context of their relationships, their sexuality?

Mos Jef (39:55)
Yeah. Okay, yeah. Really good question. It's super important. Because it benefits basically every aspect of relating, as I understand it.

And sexuality is just like, that's a, it's such fertile ground for both, like, both for harm, both for damage, both for repression, and then also for evolution as well. And it's just like, that is legitimately the most powerful.

aspect or or Energy that makes up our entire system. It's just like that's everything they're having like developing a healthy relationship with your sexuality with our sexual energy with our essence with our career like the Creativity that comes from it. This is like I mean this is moving in accordance with like just like the biologically Pre-programmed like hey check it. This is the most important thing the continuation of the species Okay, like this is like there's no arguing with this you like you might like you might as well just

get on board with it and as that translates into like our experience of relationship and partnership and so forth. mean so my wife was probably might have been the first person that I heard say this where it's like I've never felt so safe and so turned on at the same time.

And, right? And like, and I literally was like, yeah, like you get to have, you could have both. Like you could have both. don't just have, you don't need to be in the toxic relationship to have like mind blowing sex, you know? Like even though that's like a lot of people go to, or like they're the only way they can experience it. And then when things start to feel safe, then all of sudden it's like, okay, and then the boner goes away. It's just like, yeah, now this is boring. Like, you know, this is, but to be able to, and this is,

Melissa D (41:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Mos Jef (41:35)
Like if, and here's how I understand it and explain it now. It's like in order for me to be as completely open with, you know, like my person or someone that I'm sharing myself with, then there can't be any contraction. There can't be any protectiveness, right? And so if I have unconscious or shame-based bits and pieces that are just like, ehhh, like, and that's active in the field, then yeah, then that's 100 % going to manifest itself in like in the sexual dynamics between me and me and the other person.

Melissa D (42:02)
Yeah.

Mos Jef (42:03)
to be able to be with their pieces as they get activated as well. like, yes, understanding and learning this like internal skill set, 100 % translates into every aspect of relating for sure. Like both in communication, both in being able to like understand or express from our places of pain or fear or whatever, our desire, our whatever, or even like even more mechanically like.

The circuitry that is involved with anger is the exact same circuitry that is involved with desire. And so if there is a repression in one aspect, that's definitely going to bleed into the other. And so the places of not feeling safe to express like our anger or our sadness, our grief, our like whatever, that is absolutely going to translate into feeling safe or anticipating being able to be received in the expression of our sexuality as well.

There's a lot on the table there.

Melissa D (42:57)
Absolutely. Yeah, once we're able to really get into get into all those emotions and have safety and integration, then I argue that a lot of turn on and a lot of authenticity kind of comes from that. You know, when you have safety and you can take off the masks and really like, bury yourself quite literally and figuratively with your community or the person that you're with or whatever. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Mos Jef (43:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's like... And I think that there's something really, like, really, really, really beautiful and necessary about being able to do this work, like, in relationship as well.

Because just like what we were saying, like what we were talking about kind of at the beginning of like how this communicates with pieces of you that existed before you had thought and language and so forth and like just what is communicated by like a reassuring or or sensual touch, you know, between people like that's, you know, like you can mindset work all you want and like there's no substitute for that, you know, like there's no substitute for like a safe body against the safe body. And so I mean, an understanding. Yeah.

Melissa D (44:00)
Yep, like true safety, like true

safety, not just someone saying, I'm a safe person. It's like, you know, does their how they're showing up and what they're doing in the world and does their words match their actions? You know, it's a deep, deep frequency. Yeah, 1000%.

Mos Jef (44:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. That's that's congruence. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, there's a part of me that has already decided whether or not I feel safe before.

cognition has come online and like that's that's the realm that we get to move into and why the why experiences of liberation or healing in intimacy is so fucking powerful because it's like hey check it like this is like your animal body right now

like and you cannot logic your way out of a survival response. So yeah, so it's like checking like here are the different components and different pieces and like let's like address this at the most fundamental level possible. So like yeah, you have an integrated like you have two integrated minds or integrated like mindsets moving into an intimate setting then like that's also a completely completely different playing field, completely different ballgame.

And what can happen there as a result of that gets to be so magnificently enhanced and magnified as well.

where just like, in some ways it's... I've heard, I've had people experience this, reflect this to me before, like how they have experiences in relationship, have experiences in intimacy, and then they lean in and do this kind of work for a little while, and then they go back into those experiences, and they're like, what the fuck happened? Like, this is completely different now, like, ⁓ my God. You know?

Melissa D (45:37)
Do want to speak to, you know,

again, like you could, you know, I don't want you to feel pressure or share anything, but something that you've really explored in yourself and your own, I mean, erotic life or relationship that's really up leveled or.

Mos Jef (45:53)
Yeah, super good question. Okay, let me think about that.

Melissa D (45:55)
going through the memory files. Let's see. Let's pick a good one.

Mos Jef (45:57)
Yeah, like I'm

basically I'm like, okay, check it. Let me just reference like, you know, like every relational counseling session that we've had, like I'm going to know like every like attachment experience. ⁓

Melissa D (46:10)
Hmm

Mos Jef (46:11)
because I know that there's gotta be a really good example here of...

how shadow work and EFT has shown up in erotic or relational work or settings or experiences. I mean, okay.

Okay. So...

In. Alright, alright, alright, I got it. I knew we'd get there.

Melissa D (46:32)
Do you have to? Okay. Go ahead. I'm ready.

Mos Jef (46:34)
being able to come into connection with and actually, like actually begin to not even like.

not even begin to but but but effectively and thoroughly access and begin to work with process and release an experience of shame like huge because and it was and it was wild for me because I've been like at that point this is like I don't know I mean this is you know years and years and years and years of doing this type of work and like helping people process like sexual trauma and you know XYZ so so putting that lens back

back

on myself and in the way of like what like and really being able to recognize how how a shame based identity could get activated in like a lovemaking session where and and recognize it so at one point or I mean like at a specific like chapter or era I guess like in relationship

Yeah, I had no idea how influenced I was by the belief or the thought form of like, I'm not enough or I'm too much. Like somehow at the same time, right? Like there's something wrong with the way that I am. And even though in these belief systems and like that identity, they weren't influenced as a result of sexual encounters. Like they were deeper than that. They were younger than that.

but they were still active in them. it's like, and that would, that could happen in intimacy. That could happen in erotic experiences, but it also could just happen in like, in, conversations and repair conversations, but realizing that like, wow, there's, there's a, there's a shame based thing here that I like kind of like what we were talking about with like, you know, your ice queen or, or my like, I guess like more like beast aspect that I didn't realize was there that I didn't really name earlier in the conversation or in the interview, but like, but

but that's my experience of it and my representation of it.

in coming into awareness of like this really protective piece part of me that did not want to be seen and was so good at not being seen that it would like really like just like no no no don't even look at this like just like divert your attention over there and I like and when this was active I would get super like like incredibly I guess like sure prickly sure reactive but more along the lines of like no no no no no it's it's different I would

shut down. I would like like that was my avoiding kind of thing. I'm just like nope I'm gonna just come withdrawn and quiet and internal but it would happen so subtly that like I wouldn't even notice it.

Melissa D (48:55)
Hmm.

So your partner

almost was your partner able to see it and reflect it back to you? Or how did you find it?

Mos Jef (49:11)
For sure. Like, I mean, because like, Fabi would be like, what is that? Like, what was that? What's that? Like, thank God. Like, thank goodness, you know, like I'm in it. Like, I'm, I'm with someone who's so good at tracking because like we really can't hide each other. And I do it to her all the time too. And it's like, she'd be like, what was that? And then I'd be like, nothing. And she's like, what was that? And I'm like, fuck. So you know what I'm talking about? I'm like, I don't know, can't hide from anybody.

Melissa D (49:15)
What's that? What's happening right now?

Wow.

And I imagine because the two of you have this like loving safe partnership, you can actually point to shadow pieces that you're noticing and have it feel relatively safe to be exposed. Whereas there may be some containers where it's even more layers of difficulty, you know, having it seen and witnessed and pointed out. I don't know.

Mos Jef (49:54)
Yeah, no, mean like even in like there's like I definitely experienced more safety in you know this relationship and then in any other relationship that I've ever been in and Still like even in that like there's like hey, I don't want to talk about it right now Don't point at it like you like I did not give consent for this Okay, like and sometimes like I'm not ready to be coached right now. Like I'm having a thing You know like

Melissa D (50:13)
Yes, two coat, two power,

two powerful coaches coaching each other.

Mos Jef (50:17)
man we gotta like we definitely gotta be like hey listen like there's like don't be my coach just be my partner right now yeah and and i mean so and this is like once again like this there's there's not really

Melissa D (50:23)
There you go.

Mos Jef (50:30)
There's not an off limits for which domain like this these these pieces are this avoiding aspect of mine would show up in because like it would be like it could be You know like washing the dishes or breakfast first thing in the morning or like, you know, like date night or like whatever It's just like it there's you know The the psyche really doesn't give a damn about you know Set and setting when it gets activated to figure it decides to take something personally. So So that used to be like, know, like such a big thing for me, which was just like like okay like I'm like some part of me would feel called out

or criticized or whatnot and then the immediate just okay that's it like done playing now would get activated and in being able to like identify that and work with it and like you know like run myself through my own process engage in like you know like somatic supportive interventions with each other then that's just lessened and dissolved and disarmed and

not in like it is not you know not so much of a thing anymore and that's an indication or an example of just like a very deep and tricky pattern that was running the show without me even being able to like truly be incognizant of it into like coming into awareness of it making it conscious and then working with it effectively and consistently over time until it softened relaxed got nurtured and then got automated and like and went back to being something that was unconscious but now it is a supportive like nurturing relationship

that has been automated. even when it does get active, it's just like, ah, cool. Like that's like, that doesn't hurt anymore. It's just like, no, this piece got loved up and taken care of to the point where like now it's just something that's kind of always taken care of me. right? that's what I'm talking about. That's the idea. That's the goal.

Melissa D (52:05)
⁓ that's beautiful. Freedom.

That's beautiful. Well, most Jeff, do you want to share with the listeners what you got going on? We are coming up.

Mos Jef (52:19)
Coming up, yeah, depending on when this is released, but I'm going to be hosting just a self-integration workshop where I'll be teaching the framework in which, my particular framework that I've developed, kind of in response. I basically, I developed this method of teaching this to basically equip people as effectively and efficiently as possible to be able to do this kind of work when they just had no time.

And yeah, so I'm gonna be teaching a workshop probably within a week or two after this is released. just hosting.

Melissa D (52:49)
Is that virtual or in person

in person? Awesome.

Mos Jef (52:51)
It's gonna be virtual. It's gonna be virtual. It's

gonna be webinar. It's gonna be recorded. It's like not only just me transmission teaching, also like equipping people and being like, okay, check it. Now we're gonna go through an experiential XYZ so that you can get practice, experience practice of what this feels like to actually do in your system. yeah, so you get guided like not in me doing something, but basically me guiding people in their own process, because there's no substitute for you doing your own pushups, yeah? So that's the most immediate thing that I got coming up. then like, you know, and then in another six

Melissa D (53:17)
Amazing.

Mos Jef (53:21)
months I'll be running another iteration of my practitioner training as well. And I've got different collaborations in the field and kind of popping up between now and then, but those are the two main things that are basically on the horizon.

Melissa D (53:36)
Awesome, yeah, so anyone listening if you want to check most Jeff out, we've got his links down below or somewhere on the screen. Give him a follow all of that. Thank you so much for being here.

Mos Jef (53:48)
For sure. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for trusting me. Yeah.

Melissa D (53:49)
And

thank you for your ninja Jedi warrior magic that you do. It's really inspiring.

Mos Jef (53:58)
I appreciate you and thanks for being the type of person that resonates so hard with me because it's nice knowing that you're out there.

Melissa D (54:06)
Thank you. All right, Jeff, I'll talk to you soon.

Mos Jef (54:09)
Cool, right on, be well.

Melissa D (54:10)
Me too. Goodnight.