S4/E34- Season 4: Roadmap For Grieving Parents

This conversation opens with a promise: we will talk about child loss with honesty, tenderness, and practical care. Bruce Barker and Kristin Glenn outline the intention for Season 4 of Don’t Forget To Breathe: honest, compassionate discussions about child loss that replace clichés with clarity and care.

They outline episodes designed for parents in the earliest, raw weeks of grief, for those years down the road still carrying love and pain together, and for friends and family who want to support without causing harm. Together, they explore what grief really looks like, why it isn’t linear, how meaning is rebuilt over time, and what it means to live after loss rather than “move on.”

The conversation touches on relationships, mental health, and the outside world, how partners grieve differently, how silence can deepen isolation, and how anxiety, trauma, and depression show up along the way. Bruce and Kristin also open space for spirituality, uncertainty, and continuing bonds, and invite bereaved parents from all backgrounds to share their stories.

A grounding, invitational episode that sets the tone for a season focused on connection, understanding, and hope, without silver linings.

Chapters

• 0:00 Season Four Vision And Focus
• 1:17 Who Each Episode Is For
• 1:50 Themes: Living With Loss Not Moving On
• 2:25 Format: Conversations And Parent Stories
• 3:45 Remote Recording And How To Join
• 4:42 Early Grief: Survival And Brain Fog
• 7:00 Why Time Doesn’t Heal And Nonlinear Grief
• 8:41 Listener Input And Shared Wisdom
• 10:38 When The World Moves On
• 11:03 The Unique Pain Of Child Loss
• 12:27 Shattered Futures As Common Ground
• 13:53 Broadening Empathy Across Different Losses
• 15:21 Inviting Diverse Parent Voices
• 16:35 Guilt Regret Anger And Joy’s Return
• 17:54 Relationships Marriage And Intimacy
• 19:38 Family Ripples And Secondary Grief
• 21:35 Isolation Protection And Misunderstanding
• 22:17 Mental Health Trauma And Anxiety
• 23:33 Loneliness And Gentle Safety
• 24:30 Living After Loss And Identity
• 25:37 The Outside World And Landmines
• 26:45 Advocacy At Low Energy Points
• 27:17 Spirituality Faith And Continuing Bonds
• 28:35 Different Paths Of Loss And Gendered Grief
• 30:01 Years Later What Softens What Hurts

Transcript

Season Four Vision And Focus

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Welcome to Don't Forget to Breathe. I'm Bruce Barker, along with my co-host, Kristen Glenn. In the last episode, Kristen and I talked about what it means to get it. Shared understanding that exists between breathed parents without any explanation. In this next part, we want to share where we're headed together in season four. Some episodes are for parents who are new to grief, when the pain is raw and the questions feel overwhelming. Others are for those further down the road still carrying loss while learning how to live again. And still other episodes are specifically for those who have not lost a child, but are walking beside those who have. To offer tools to help and their support of a grieving parent. We'll talk about the unique pain of child loss, how it affects relationships and mental health, and what it means to live after loss. Not moving on, but living with it. We'll explore how the outside world responds, the spiritual and existential questions grief brings up, and we'll hear from other bereaved parents sharing their stories and hard-earned wisdom. And throughout the season, we'll talk about hope, not in silver linings, but the kind that can quietly coexist with sorrow. Wherever you are on this journey, you're welcome here. Now, let's continue our conversation. This is kind of the teaser, so to speak, of some of the subjects that we'll be talking about among us, but still, so that it's kind of kind of go, we'll have our conversations, much like we're having now, and we will also be doing uh parent stories where parents can come on and share their story. And again, from anywhere in the world. And speaking of how that works, that's what we're doing right now. I'm in Denver, you're in Fort Collins, and we're doing this through that format. I think I mentioned that in the last couple of episodes. It doesn't matter where you are, and we're not in a studio. We are in separate locations, we can see each other on the screen. And it will be the same thing when you, as a listener, want to come on and share your story. You'll be on this little screen that we can see you. Now we don't record the video, so you're not, so don't worry about that. But wherever you are, we can do this. And again, it's just it's a website format that we use, no special equipment, anything like that. Sometimes, depending on the internet connection, it might get a little fuzzy. So going forward, there may be times that it will be with us as well. So there may be a little fuzziness. We also anticipate sometimes that we are in a studio together at the same time. But this is kind of that um just an example of that format that we are not in the same place and doing this recording. So we'll be we anticipate the parent other parents coming on and to kind of share their story. But in between those, there's subjects that you and I are gonna talk about. And maybe even depending on where some of the parents that come on are in their journey, they may be joining us to talk about some of these subjects as well. So we're gonna rattle a few of these off. Um, do you have them where you can see them too? No? Okay. So then I'm rattling them off. So one of the things um it's about early grief, right? And one is you're not crazy what grief after child loss really feels like. Because I know we feel like so. That's that's yeah, spot on. So good. And as you just mentioned, the day everything changed, surviving the first weeks. And those that I know that's I know with some of the in some of the groups that I facilitate, people are different places on their journey. And those that it's only been a few weeks, we're not talking about oh, 19 years out, we're not talking about five years out. We're not you just want to know how do I get through the next hour? How do I get through tonight? Can I go to sleep? Can I go to can I wake up in the morning? Am I gonna get out of bed? All of those things that if you are early stages of grief.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Absolutely. It's the name of your podcast. It is the absolute name of this podcast. Don't forget to breathe. Exactly. I remember, you know, I I vividly remember feeling like I'm having to remember to breathe. That that effort of inhale, exhale every, you know, it was an effort. And so, and you can't imagine that someone can survive that. So I think we need to address that. Um, because people, that's real scary stuff. And I think people deserve to have an episode that they can come to soon after their grief and know that that is how we feel and how we, you know, have brain fog and can't remember how to drive somewhere that we used to go every single day and don't forget, you know, don't remember to feed the dog and don't remember how to do everyday stuff because our brain is just in complete upheaval.

Why Time Doesn’t Heal And Nonlinear Grief

SPEAKER_01 6:08

So we don't even remember how we got where we got. Absolutely not. Oh, I've done that so many times. I know that when I when I first started the podcast, and and I may have I may have mentioned this that where I am now is obviously not where I was when I first started the podcast. And when I I did that, it was a a way of getting all of this out of me and getting it out there and just speaking, speaking it. And that's one of the things when you when you mentioned the don't forget to breathe, I think that's in season one, I think that's episode three, maybe or two, I don't remember it, but it's the story of where that phrase came from and where I first heard it. And as I as I go back when you were saying that, I'm taken back to, and as we all are, when we talk on these subjects, we're taken back to where that where that was. And and it was you're just survival. Or I can say in my case, I don't care about survival. I didn't want to wake up the next morning. Like all of those things where you're what's next? So we'll definitely deep dive into that. Um, we've and there's a whole list here, it's a long list, but by the way. Um so we're barely getting into this. Oh, yeah, I love this. Why time doesn't heal this and what actually happens. That's such a cliche phrase.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Time.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, just give it time.

Listener Input And Shared Wisdom

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Um and this, I love, love, love this. Grief is not linear. And it's not fair. Absolutely it is not linear. And and I've noticed from like on some of my uh Instagram feeds, all my personal Instagram feeds, you know, the way the algorithms work, I see a lot of grief stuff. And there are some really, there's really nice little pieces of wisdom that's out there. And and that's some of the stuff that we'll explore. And so as a as a listener, if there's something you've seen or you've heard, and and it might have just been a catchphrase or some line that you saw on a really cool photo on an Instagram or Facebook feed or something like that, and you want us to explore that, send us an email.

unknown 8:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

So contact information is in the show notes, or as I always put at the end of the podcast, I have my email address on there. And then Kristen and I'll go through those emails and then we can address that. So if there's a specific subject you want us to talk about, we're we're all over it. Let us know because we're here.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, and I would I would say to people listening, don't underestimate your own wisdom and and what you have lived through. I would we want to hear from you. So if you have a story to tell or have those, you know, little pearls of wisdom that Bruce is talking about, let this be a place that we can gather those for other people. Because we certainly are just two people. So we hope it can be a safe space that you're not self-editing yourself to think, oh, I'm not ready to tell my story, it's not important enough. I don't have any anything to say. I imagine that you would definitely do.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah, don't disqualify yourself.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Like that's the thing, is we are not um licensed professionals. So, and that's in the disclaimer, by the way. We are not licensed professionals, but we will talk from our experience. And so it's the same with you as a listener. You don't have to be a licensed professional. You don't like what you bring to this may be things we haven't thought of yet. And that's okay because now it can be shared with other people.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, we can learn from everyone. Absolutely.

When The World Moves On

The Unique Pain Of Child Loss

SPEAKER_01 10:08

I definitely keep learning. All right, and Kristen, these are really good. She sent me this list, by the way. When the world moves on. Two minutes ago. Yeah, when the world moves on and you can't. Like, oh, I've totally felt that. Yeah. We're I'm I'm how much time do we have? I definitely want to dive into that, but we won't do it right now. Well, this is just coming up later on. All right, and then like unique pain of child loss. Why losing a child is different from any other grief. Yeah, that's the especially the comparisons.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah. And I think that's why, you know, what what this podcast is all about is so important. And it's what, you know, my work with the nonprofit that people wanted it to be larger, wanted it to be a all-encompassing grief center. And I want to validate all grief is important, but I absolutely believe from the bottom of my heart that child loss is a very unique pain. And um I I'm just proud to be part of something that addresses that without shying away from it.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah. One of the things that I I've learned in a couple of groups that I facilitated is as we're as the parents are sharing their particular stories. One in particular, there was a lot of here's what we did, here's our memories, here's all the things, you know, all of these memories that we had. And in my case, it was 20 years worth. Right. And in others' cases, maybe it was 18 years or 17 or 20 or 30, whatever it is.

Shattered Futures As Common Ground

SPEAKER_00 12:00

And then one of the parents pointed out, like, I don't have that. I got eight days.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

They were not able to relate to that, but this next thing that you you put here, this is where we're all on the same page. And it's the shattered future. Grieving the life they should have had. Then we're in the same boat. Don't know how they feel, but we're in the same boat. And now we're we can talk this the common language.

Broadening Empathy Across Different Losses

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Absolutely. You know, and I think early on in our our grief experiences, often we're looking for someone that has a loss that feels as similar as possible, similar age child, similar cause, similar, because we think that that will become kind of our person. And it may, but it really is more who has similar coping or similar faith or similar, you know, relationships. So I hope people open their their hearts and their ears to these stories and don't kind of um edit away from, well, this is a story of someone that lost many years ago, an adult child, I had a stillborn baby, I won't be able to relate to this. And it is exactly what you said. You had hopes forever of having a child and and what they would become and the place they would hold in your family. So it is it's the shattered dreams and shattered hopes that is a commonality, no matter what circumstance or age or length of time since since the loss.

Inviting Diverse Parent Voices

SPEAKER_01 13:47

So yeah, and this is why we want in changing the format of where we have parents come on to share their stories because everybody's story is so different and so unique. And someone else can can relate, because there's gonna be some people that can relate to my story and some people that can relate to your story, but that's a pretty narrow, that's a pretty narrow focus. And so that's why if listeners come on to share their story, there's gonna be someone else out there that that something's really gonna resonate and going, oh, they absolutely get it, because of some similarities or whatever. So we definitely wanna want to dive into that. I obviously cannot comment on every one of these because there are we would this episode or episodes would be lasting way, way, way, way too long because there's like 49. We got to bounce on a couple, we got some work to do, my friend. Toss them out there. So then as a listener, if you hear something in some of these these things that we want to um dive into and something really resonates with you, reach out and go, hey, I want to hear that one. When are you gonna do that one? And then um, so let us know. Um oh yeah, this is good. Okay, all right, I'll stop coming. I'm just gonna read them. Um, so guilt, regret, and the endless if-onlies. Oh my god. Anger at God, the universe, doctors, or everyone. So good. When joy feels like betrayal.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Oh my gosh.

Guilt Regret Anger And Joy’s Return

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Oh yeah. Oh, now if you want to jump in, because I just want to dive into all of these things, please step in there. So, okay. This didn't so for me, this didn't resonate because this this kind of next grouping, because I was single, I wasn't married when um when Kristen died. But for others, this will. So basically, with with marriage and family and relationships, grieving differently than your partner, and still staying connected. When one parent wants to talk and the other can't. Wow, these are good. Sex, intimacy, and emotional distance after loss. Okay, this one I can. Surviving holidays, birthdays, and anniversaries. Of course, this is as together, but that's still individually or together.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Uh grandparents, siblings and the ripple effects of grief. I have to pause on that one. That's the ripple effects. That is um pretty profound.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

It's pretty profound, and it's you discover it for years and years later.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Oh yeah.

Relationships Marriage And Intimacy

SPEAKER_02 16:47

I think, you know, I'm still hearing from from family, friends, past co-workers the ripple effect of them hearing this news, this what it was like to go back into the work environment, what things that they haven't told me and now are telling me. This and it's interesting to imagine what this was like. And again, I think they've protected me from their reality of this. And it's on the outside ripple, but it's it's pretty incredible to um hear those stories this many years later. So I would love to bring some people in. And I think that's another thing we can do the through this podcast venue or, you know, like kind of avenue, is to talk to people that are on another ripple. What was it like to witness your best friend lose her baby when you were pregnant with yours? What was it like to watch your daughter hold her child dying of cancer when you couldn't fix it as a grandparent? I mean, I think there's we've got a lot of work today. We've got to like keep healthy so we can do this for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah. One thing that you you said that it and it kind of circles back to something we've already talked about, but you mentioned their protecting us.

unknown 18:05

Yeah.

Family Ripples And Secondary Grief

SPEAKER_01 18:05

And so I think that's another one of those things. And it's it's in that same subject we talked about just a little bit ago, but the isolation that gets created for us. Right. Because of people wanting to protect us. Exactly. Yeah, we we've kind of touched on that. So that one will kind of keep going. I made a note on that. Mental health and the inner world. So trauma versus grief, how child loss rewires the brain. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there's yeah, we'll talk more offline about that. This is gonna be really good. Anxiety, panic, and fear for our other children. Depression versus when you don't want to be here anymore. Gentle and safe conversations. Yeah, um, I think I mentioned that earlier. You sure did. It was literally for the first year. Didn't want to be here anymore. Uh okay, lonely the loneliness no one talks about. These are really good subjects. So, again, if you're if you hear something that really resonates with you, because this isn't in an order necessarily, so this is not like if it's something that jumps out, go, will you guys talk about this on your next podcast? Absolutely. Let us know. Um, living after loss, and it's not quote unquote moving on. What healing means when your child is still gone. We touched on that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

We did, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Uh carrying your child forward, bonds that don't end, finding meaning without forcing positivity. Really good. When laughter comes back and the guilt that follows. Oh yeah, so alright, I know I said I wasn't gonna comment, but probably I don't know, maybe a year after Kristen died, I was with some friends and then again made a made a comment, and what they said someone said to me is, Oh, you got your funny back.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Okay. And then the guilt that follows.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Wow.

Isolation Protection And Misunderstanding

Mental Health Trauma And Anxiety

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Okay, you are not who you were, identity after loss. We barely scratched the surface on that tonight. The outside world. Uh, what not to say and why people say it anyway. Totally a deep dive on that. That's gonna that's gonna fall into our non-targeted basically, or sent to those who have not experienced child loss to be able to help you. Navigating friendships that fade, returning to work when you're barely functioning, social media, baby announcements, and landmines. Oh my goodness. Yes, lots of landmines. Uh advocating for yourself when you have no energy. Wow. Spirituality meaning in the big question. Faith after child loss, losing it, redefining it, or letting it go. Okay, that's that's probably a two, three parter. Um and I can think of people to bring to bring on to talk about that. So we it yeah, that's we'll deep dive. Oh, this is good. Signs, dreams, and continuing bonds. Yep. Uh talking about heaven, afterlife, or uncertainty without platitudes. Oh yeah. Anger at God and still wanting comfort. These are great subjects. Um voices of other brief parents. Their story. Every child, every loss is different. Absolutely, we've talked. Um briefly about that and we'll deep dive it. Uh this is really good. Sudden loss versus illness versus accidents versus suicide. Mothers speak and fathers speak. Often grieve differently. I know one of the groups that I specifically facilitate is for dads. And it's different.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Absolutely. I hope we can have several episodes that we have voices of both. Yeah. Maybe maybe together. Yeah. I do think that offers some incredibly helpful insights.

Loneliness And Gentle Safety

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Because I I I I think there's there's still a sense and a feeling of being alone. And and that, oh well, they're not going to get it. But if having someone on, or whether it's separately or as a couple or whatever, to be able to get those different perspectives to realize, no, you're not alone. Like you're connected.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah. Well, and I think one of the deepest loneliness is when you lose that that child and you think the other person's going to be your support or grieve similarly, and you realize we almost have to do this separately.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Because it's neither one of you can lean on each other. It's too vast. It's too all-encompassing. So it's a new level of loneliness.

unknown 23:36

Yeah.

Living After Loss And Identity

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Years later, what still hurts and what is softened. That's going to be because both of us are at the years later part. So I think that's quite a one-on-one there. What I wish I'd known in the first year. Oh yeah. Gentle, this one's gentle practical support. How to get through the day when you can't get out of bed. Coping tools that don't feel like toxic positivity. Therapy support groups, or none of the above. Medications, supplements, and grief, the pros and the cautions. Rituals that help when words don't. I think that's going to be the different parents that we talk to. I think that's that's can be just a question that that's out there to find out what worked for them.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

It'd be great to have some of these be asked of all parents that we talk to.

The Outside World And Landmines

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking there. Hope without silver linings. So hope that doesn't minimize the loss. And speaking of hope, I hope that that's what I've been able to do so far with the podcast is trying to offer hope, but definitely not minimizing the loss. Um, so I hope I've hit that okay. Um and you can carry this and still live. Love didn't end with death. Sure. And you are still a parent. And that one took me a bit to to get to because Kristen was my only child. But I still, in in like descriptors or something, I don't um I don't know whether it's on like profile things or whatever, I still I still refer to myself as a dad.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

You are I am, you absolutely are.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

So and what your child gave you that death can't take.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Oh that one gives me chills.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah, we may have to ask.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

That's a good one.

Advocacy At Low Energy Points

Spirituality Faith And Continuing Bonds

SPEAKER_01 25:57

See if yeah, if uh parents want to want to share that. So that's just some of the subjects, and some of those will be with parents that come on, some are gonna be you and I. So again, if there's something in that list that resonated with you that you really want us to dive into, reach out. So again, contact information is in the show notes, and then my email is at the end of this podcast. That's after the music. So I'm really I'm really looking forward to this season and others moving on. We're gonna um just to let you know, we're gonna try to get, and I believe we will be able to now, is get on a regular schedule with how these podcasts come out. I know it's been sporadic in in the past, so there might have been some that it was like every week, and then it went for a month and a half or two. And we also know about, as I mentioned at the beginning of season three, when I took that big gap. So I think we're in a spot where we'll be able to have some consistency. And um there's a voice for you here, again, using this format. So you can listen and see how it sounded because that's how you'll sound. Just in a different location, and it really doesn't matter if you're what is Fort Collins, 90 miles up the road for me?

SPEAKER_02 27:21

About, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Well, like I mean, you're way out in the sticks somewhere, but up there. Um, so whether it's 90 miles or thousands of miles, doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

So don't disqualify yourself. Let us know and come share your story. So I'm psyched. I'm I'm excited about having this space for parents to share their stories. They've got voice, hope, and connect with that with other parents.

Different Paths Of Loss And Gendered Grief

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Me too. I think we can have some really meaningful conversations. You know, it always feels odd to say how excited or um looking forward to I am about grief, but this is this is what I know. And I believe that that you and I can listen well and and um create a space where others can not feel alone and have that voice. So thanks for allowing me to be your official co-host. I look forward to our next time together.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Thank you for being co-host on the Don't Forget to Breathe podcast. So until next time, thanks, Kristen.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Take care, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

As you can probably tell, Kristen and I are really looking forward to exploring these conversations together in season four and beyond. If this space feels helpful to you, we invite you to keep coming back to listen to be part of this community. Until next time, on behalf of my co host, Kristen Glenn, I'm Bruce Barker. And please don't forget to breathe.